>> NEXT ON ARIZONA HORIZON, IT'S THE JOURNALIST'S ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE TOP STORIES INCLUDING OUR DEBATE BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES FOR SECRETARY OF STATE AND HOW A CHANGE IN F.D.A.

RULES IS EXPANDING ACCESS TO HEARING AIDS.

THAT'S NEXT ON ARIZONA PBS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THREE THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE ARIZONA ROUND TABLE.

WE HAVE JEREMY DUDA AND JIM SMALL AND JEREMY, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

SOMETHING NEW HAPPENED REGARDING KELLY WARD'S RECORDS.

WE HAVE A DECISION AND AN APPEAL.

AND ALL IN ONE AFTERNOON.

>> KELLY WARD AND HER HUSBAND CHALLENGED THE COMMITTEE FOR THEIR PHONE RECORDS SAYING THERE'S A HIPPA VIOLATION AND FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES BECAUSE THEY'RE AHEAD OF A POLITICAL PARTY AND THIS WOULD HAVE A CHILLEAN EFFECT AND THE JUDGE SAID NO WAY.

THAT THEY'RE REACHING IN THIS ARGUMENT AND SHE HAS TO TURN OVER THE PHONE RECORDS.

A NOTICE APPEAL TO THE NINTH CIRCUIT.

>> LAURIE, THE FOCUS LOOKS TO BE THE FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME?

>> THE RECORDS SUBPOENAED WERE FROM, BASICALLY, ELECTION TIME UNTIL JANUARY, AFTER THE INSURRECTION AND CLEAR WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHO DREAMED UP THE IDEA OF THIS FAKE ELECTOR SCHEME THAT HAPPENED, I THINK, IN EIGHT STATES AND THE THOUGHT IS PRESUMABLY THAT KELLY WARD'S PHONE RECORDS WILL SHOW WHO SHE WAS TALKING TO.

>> IT WAS TO GO TO WASHINGTON AND SAY FORGET THAT OTHER GROUP OF ELECTORS.

WE ARE DULY ELECTED ELECTORS WHICH CAME OUT OF, REALLY, NOWHERE?

>> WELL, YES, AND NO, RIGHT?

I THINK IT CAME OUT OF THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND TRUMP CAMPAIGN'S OR CASTORBIT AND HOW THIS HAPPENED, IT WASN'T SPONTANEOUS.

I REMEMBER WATCHING AND EVERYBODY WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS SAYING THIS IS ODD AND IT LOOKS LIKE A PUBLICITY STUNT.

WHAT WE KNOW NOW IS THAT THIS WAS CALCULATED.

THE WHOLE GOAL WAS TO HAVE THESE FAKE ELECTORS SUBMIT THEIR DOCUMENTS TO GO TO CONGRESS AND I THINK AS KIND OF WHAT THE WHOLE GOAL WAS TO THEM REPLACE DEMOCRATIC ELECTORS IN OTHER STATES WITH THE REPUBLICAN ELECTORS.

>> HAVE THE VICE PRESIDENT DOE CLEARDECLARE THIS IS IN DOUBT AND OFFICIALLY OUT OF NOWHERE AND NOTHING OFFICIAL ABOUT THIS GROUP.

>> NO.

I MEAN, I GUESS IT DEPENDS WHO YOU ASK.

THEY TRIED TO PORTRAY THEMSELVES AS OFFICIAL.

THIS IS A FAIL-SAFE.

THAT'S NOT THE WHAT THEY PRESENTED OR SEND THESE DOCUMENTS TO WASHINGTON.

AT THE TIME, THEY PRESENTED AS THE DULY, RIGHTFULLY ELECTORS FOR DONALD J. TRUMP AND NOT OFFICIAL IN ANY WAY.

>> THEY NOW TRY TO SAY WE WERE PORTRAYING OURSELVES AS AN ALTERNATE SET OF ELECTORS.

THERE WAS NO WORD SUCH AS ALTERNATE.

THEY SIGNED A DOCUMENT SAYING THEY WERE THE DULY ELECTORS AND THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES SHOULD ARE CASTING THEIR VOTES.

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY NOBODY IS INVESTIGATING THEM FOR FRAUD.

>> HOW MUCH TROUBLE ARE THESE FOLKS IN?

>> SO FAR NONE.

I GUESS IT DEPENDS WHAT THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE AND EXPECTDEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ARE GETTING TO.

ARE THEY GOING TO GO AFTER THE INDIVIDUAL STATES AND THE ELECTORS WHO TRIED TO PULL ONE OVER.

>> THIS WHOLE SUBPOENA FIGHT IS ABOUT THE SELECT COMMITTEE IN THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES INVESTIGATING THE JANUARY 6th ATTACK.

THERE'S A CONCURRENT DEPARTMENT PROBE AND THERE HAVE BEEN SUBPOENAS ISSUED FOR ACROSS THE COUNTRY INCLUDING IN ARIZONA OF, YOU KNOW, RECORDS, TRYING TO FIND OUT THESE QUESTIONS TO SEE WHAT IS THE LIABILITY AND WERE ANY LAWS BROKEN?

>> OBVIOUSLY MORE THERE AND COULD BE DRAGGED OUT HERE IN THE APPEAL'S COURT PROCESS ALL THE WAY TO THE SUPREME COURT.

LAURIE, SECRETARY OF STATE DEBATE WAS LAST NIGHT AND I THOUGHT IT WAS WONDERFULLY MODERATES.

>> GREAT JOB!

>> I'M ACING THAT TO SAYING THAT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE THE STAR OF THE DEBATE.

>> THEY SHOULD HAVE READ MORE OF MY WORK.

IT WAS QUITE INTERESTING AND FOR ALL PEOPLE WHO SAY THERE'S TO REASON TO HAVE CANDIDATE DEBATES, THIS IS EXHIBIT ONE OF WHY YOU CAN.

YOU SHOULD, BECAUSE THE CONTRAST BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES WAS JARRING, ALMOST, AND EVEN THOUGH BOTH OF US WHO WATCHED THIS WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT.

YOU HAD ADREAN FONTES WHO WAS CALM, COLLECTED AND MEASURED IN HIS TONE AND ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU HAD MARK FINCHEM AND COULD I SAYS UNHINGED AND THROUGHOUT CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

>> HE THREW OUT THE FACT HE HAS BEEN QUESTIONED BY CONGRESSIONAL, BY DOJ AND WHO DID HE SAY HE WAS QUESTIONED ABOUT?

>> I WASN'T QUITE CLEAR, I THINK THE DOJ.

>> I THINK THE DOJ AND COMMISSION IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

>> AS A WITNESS AND I THINK THAT WAS A DISTINCTION AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL LEARN MORE IN THE NEAR FUTURE BECAUSE MARK FINCHEM WAS AT THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th JANUARY 6th AND THERE'S VIDEO EVIDENCE AND MAYBE CLOSER TO THE CAPITOL THAN HE MADE HIMSELF OUT TO BE AND HE WAS THERE TO DELIVER EVIDENCE TO HIS CAUCUS AND DELEGATION THAT HE UNCOVERED FOR MALFEASANCE AND THIS UNOFFICIAL HEARING AT THE DOWNTOWN HOTEL AND IT WAS A TEN-HOUR PARADE OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND CONJECTURE AND BASIS ALLEGATIONS AND NOTHING CONSTITUTED EVIDENCE TO ANYTHING AND THERE TO DELIVER TO CONGRESS, NON-THELESS.

>> AND THIS WAS ALREADY PUBLIC AND NONE.

HE DIDN'T MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT HE WAS DOING BACK THERE OTHER THAN THAT AND ALSO, OH, YEAH, I WAS THERE ON THE -- I'M A WITNESS TO THIS.

>> AND SO I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA, HE'S A WITNESS AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE INTERVIEWED FROM THE SLOT COMMITTEE WHO PLAYED ROLE IN THINGS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY AS SUBJECTS OR TARGETS.

YOU KNOW, HE WAS CERTAINLY THERE ON THE GROUNDS AND THERE'S THINGS HE MAY HAVE SEEN AND NEVER SAW VIOLENCE AT ALL AS HE WAS WALKING IN FRONT OF THE STEPS OF THE CAPITOL.

YOU KNOW, I THINK TO JEREMY'S POINT, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT COMES OUT OF THIS AND HE DIDN'T HAVE A ROLE IN THE FACT ELECTORS AND AT THE FOREFRONT OF STOP-THE STEAL MOVEMENT AND RALLYING NATIONAL PEOPLE TO COME TOGETHER TO TRY TO FIGHT TO OBJECT TO THE ELECTION RESULTS AND TO ULTIMATELY TRY TO OVERTURN THEM.

>> I BELIEVE HE SIGNED THE RESOLUTION ALONG WITH HIS FELLOW REPUBLICANS ASKING CONGRESS TO ACCEPT THOSE AND I WOULD ARGUE HE DID HAVE A ROLE.

I DON'T KNOW WE KNOW HOW BIG, BUT HE HAS HIS FINGERPRINTS ON THERE.

>> WE KNOW HE DID CONSIDER THE ELECTIONS IN MARICOPA, PIMA AND YUMAI COMPROMISED.

>> HE HAD TO EVIDENCE AND WENT TO YUMA, WHICH WAS INTERESTING, AND TALKED ABOUT THE BALLOT HARVESTING AND THAT WAS PROOF THAT THE ELECTION WAS AFFECTED.

WHAT HE DIDN'T MENTION IS THAT THOSE MULES, THERE TWO OF THEM, I BELIEVE, INVOLVING FOUR BALLOTS IN A COUNTY THAT TRUMP WON BY FOUR THOUSAND VOTES, A LITTLE OVER FOUR THOUSAND VOTES.

THESE MULES WERE CAUGHT HARVESTING BALLOTS IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION, WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH MIXING IT UP OR MISSTATING FACTS.

>> THE MULE THING WAS INTERESTING, AND ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT TWO THOUSAND MULES BECAUSE MOST FOLKS MOVED AWAY FROM THAT CONSIDERING IT WAS DEBUNKED.

>> AND THESE FOLKS HAVE NEVER PRESENTED ANY EVIDENCE FOR THEIR CLAIMS AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE HIS NOT GOTTEN ANYTHING.

I THINK ONE THING IMPORTANT TO POINT OUT, EVEN IF THESE SMALL NUMBER OF BALLOTS WERE HARVESTED IN YUMA COUNTY, IT DOESN'T MEAN THEIR FRAUDULENT.

YES, IT'S ILLEGAL TO COLLECT OTHER PEOPLE'S BALLOTS AND TURN THEM IN, BUT THEY DON'T GET COUNTED UNLESS THEY'RE BALLOT.

>> WIDE-SPREAD FRAUD IS AT PLAY AND WIDE-SPREAD DOESN'T APPLY.

MAIL-IN VOTING AND IT TOOKEST AND GOT THE ANSWER, AND GOT THE ANSWER HE'S NOT CRAZY ABOUT MAIL-IN VOTING.

>> IT WAS INTERESTING.

INSANE AS HE MIGHT HAVE SOUNDED, HE WAS MODERATE COMPARED TO WHERE HE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TIMES AND WHERE WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

I THINK THE MAIL-IN VOTING WAS AN EXAMPLE, WHERE THIS IS SOMEONE CALLED TO MAIL-IN VOTING TO GO AWAY COMPLETELY AND INTRODUCED LEGISLATION AND INTRODUCED SPONSORED LEGISLATION, BACK LEGISLATION TO DO ALL KINDS OF THINGS TO THE LEGISLATION PROCESS.

HE TIP-TOWED AT BEST OR DISTANCED HIMSELF SOFTLY FROM SOME OF THE IDEAS WITHOUT TOTALLY ABANDONING THEM.

IT'S SOMETHING OVERWHELMING POPULAR, 80% TO 90% OF ARIZONA USES EARLY VOTING AND A LOT OF POPE ON THEPEOPLE ON THE RIGHT THAT ARIZONA WAS A PIONEER ON.

>> ASKED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE PRIMARY WAS OK AND NO PROBLEM THERE AND A DIFFERENCE, THE CANDIDATES.

>> THE CANDIDATES AND THERE LIES THE PROBLEM.

YOU HAVE THE SAME BASIC ELECTION RULES MAYBE WITH A FEW CHANGES AS YOU HAVE THE SAME BASIC PEOPLE RUNNING THE ELECTIONS AND THE SAME PROCESSES.

THE ONLY THING THAT CHANGED WAS WHO WON THE ELECTION.

AND SUDDENLY WE SEE THAT THE SAME RULES AND PROCESSES COULD BE APPLIED AND WHEN THE TRUMP PEOPLE WIN, IT'S FIND.

WHEN THE TRUMP PEOPLE DON'T WIN, WHOA!

>> LET'S DOVETAIL TO WHAT HE TOLD "TIME" MAGAZINE AND THE FACT HE TALKED TO THE MAGAZINE IS INTEREST.

INTERESTING.

HE COULDN'T FIND ANYONE WHO VOTED FOR BIDEN AND A HYPOTHETICAL WORLD AND IT'S A FANTASY WORLD.

>> THIS IS A MAN WHO WANTS TO BE OUR CHIEF ELECTION'S OFFICER AND WHAT HE WAS BASICALLY SAYING WAS THAT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANYBODY WHO VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN, JOE BIDEN COULDN'T HAVE WON AND WHEN THE REPORTER PRESSED AND CAN'T YOU IMAGINE A WORLD IN WHICH YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYBODY, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A FEW PEOPLE THAT DON'T KNOW AND THAT MIGHT BE A FANTASY AND THE SAME THING ABOUT 2024 ELECTION.

IF BIDEN WINS AND YOUR NEIGHBORS DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS, IS IT POSSIBLE HE COULD STILL WIN?

AGAIN, IT'S A FANTASY.

A MAN WHO WANTS TO RUN OUR ELECTIONS AND WILL APPLY NOT THE RULES AND PROCESSES WE HAVE, BUT HIS GUT FEELING AND WHO HIS NEIGHBORS VOTED FOR AS TO WHETHER THIS ELECTION WAS RELEVANT.

>> WHAT'S AN IMPORTANT TAKE AWAY AND HE SAID THIS ON THE STAGE AND TO "TIME" IS CERTIFYING THE 2020 ELECTION WHICH GETS TO CERTIFYING THE 2024 ELECTION AND THIS IS PAWN IMPORTANT AN IMPORTANT THING WHERE THE STATE LAW IS NOT AMBIGUOUS AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, I THINK HE SAID TO "TIME," I WOULD IF THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF FRAUD AND IT DOES NOT ALLOW FOR HIM TO MAKE THAT DECISION.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A JUDGE OR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY AS OPPOSED TO RUDY GIULIANI IN A HOTEL BALLROOM.

HE GOT INTO SIMILAR ISSUES SAYING, WHAT WE'VE LEARNED SINCE THEN, NO, IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED AND WE HAVEN'T LEARNED ANYTHING IN REALITY THAT WOULD SUGGEST IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED.

BUT ONE HAS TO WONDER HOW HE WOULD APPLY THIS APPROACH TO THE NEXT ELECTION IF HE ELECTED.

WILL HE CERTIFY IF THE CANDIDATE HE SUPPORTS LOSES.

>> WITH THE DEBATE IN MIND, THE INTERVIEW WITH "TIME" MAGAZINE, THE IMPACT ON THIS RACE.

>> I THINK LAURIE IS RIGHT, THAT THIS IS IMPORTANT.

THIS ONE OF THE REASONS DEBATES ARE SO IMPORTANT AND CANDIDATES STAND UP AND SAY THEIR IDEAS.

YOU GET TO SEE A CONTRAST AND YOU GET TO REALLY SEE AND WITNESS IT FOR YOURSELF.

IT'S NOT JUST THE COMMERCIALS AND THE MAILERS IN YOUR MAILBOX.

IT'S HEARING FROM BOTH CANDIDATES AND SEEING THEIR TEMPERAMENT AND A SENSE TO WHAT THEY SAY AND HOW THEY WOULD LEAD IN THAT SITUATION.

I THINK THIS IS PROBABLY EXACTLY WHY ADRIAN FONTES WAS EAGER TO SHOW UP TO A DEBATE LIKE THIS BECAUSE HE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A BLACK AND WHITE FOR VOTERS.

>> DOES IT HAVE MUCH OF AN IMPACT ON THE RACE?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY.

THE PEOPLE THEY NEED TO REACH ARE THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE, THE INDEPENDENTS AND WERE THEY WATCHING?

DO THEY CARE ENOUGH?

TRADITIONALLY, THIS IS CONSIDERED DOWN-BALLOT AND WHILE YOU'RE PAYING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, ARE YOU PAYING ATTENTION TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S RACE OR ARE YOU REPUBLIC OR AN INDEPENDENT LEADING REPUBLICAN AND VOTE THAT WAY?

THIS RACE, THIS YEAR IS HIGHER PROFILE AND I THINK IT HURTS THEM AND I THINK HIS INTERVIEWS HURT HIM?

FINCHEM?

>> YES.

I THINK MOST VOTERS ARE MOVE ON AND ONLY IF THEY THOUGHT IT WAS HINKY, THEY THOUGHT, GET OVER IT.

IF YOU WATCHED LAST NIGHT, YOU HAVE TO QUESTION HOW THIS MAN WOULD RUN AN ELECTION.

>> THE LAST QUESTION ON THIS.

DID FINCHEM SCORE POINTS BY SAYING FONTES TURNED THE MARICOPA ELECTION INTO CHAOS AND LOST IN MARICOPA COUNTY?

THATIS THAT A FACTOR?

>> SOME MAYBE VOTE AGAINST HIM IN 2020 AND CERTAINLY, THERE WERE SOME ISSUES WITH HI HIS TENDER THERE AND A BUNCH OF POLLING PLACES DIDN'T OPEN AND HE DID A NOVEL APPROACH TO A MAIL-IN VOTING IN THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY IN 2020, WHERE HE I'LL SEND BALLOTS AND THE COURT SAID, NO, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

WHETHER THAT IS UNDER THE ZANEIER STUFF ABOUT NOT CERTIFICATE FOYING BECAUSE OF IMAGINARY TODAY, IT'S HARD TO SAY HOW MUCH THESE THINGS WILL PERSPECTIVELY WEIGH IN UNDECIDED VOTERS.

>> LET'S MOVE ON HERE AND LAURIE, KARI LAKE PROMISED PAINFUL AND HURTFUL NEWS ABOUT HOBBS AND THIS SOUNDS LIKE SERIOUS TOUGH.

STUFF.

>> SHE PUT OUT AN OMINOUS TEXT SAYING SHE RECEIVED THIS PAINFUL INFORMATION.

I COUNTRY JUST WANT TO TRIPLE-CHECK IT AND THE NEXT DAY, SHE DOES A THREE-MINUTE VIDEO EXPOSE THAT KATIE HOBBS VOTED AGAINST THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE AND AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION AND THOUGHT TO MAKE SURE THOSE THINGS NOT BE SHOWN IN PUBLIC SCHOOL CLASSROOMS.

IT'S LUDICROUS AND LOOKED AT HER EVIDENCE AND FROM YOU FINISHED THE VIDEO AND YOU THOUGHT, DOES SHE NOT KNOW HOW TO READ A BILL BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT WAS A BILL THAT THOSE THINGS WERE ALLOWED IN LAW.

IF YOU KNOW HOW TO READ A BILL, YOU COULD SEE WHAT SHE WAS VOTING AGAINST WAS THAT LIST OF PERMITTED THINGS OF THE STATE MOTTO.

SHE DIDN'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND, SHE TOOK THE WHOLE LIST AND ASSUMED KATIE HOBBS WAS VOTING AGAINST ALL OF IT AND WHEN IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

>> IT STUCK OUT.

>> FOR LEGISLATING 101, YOU LOOK AT A BILL, BLUE STUFF IN CAPITALS IS NEW STUFF AND A RED LINE IS STUFF THEY'RE TAKING OUT AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE VOTING ON, THE CHANGES AND NOT THE EXISTING LAW.

I THINK THIS WAS A REAL SELF-INFLICTED -- SELF-OWNED.

TO BASICALLY DEMONSTRATE, THE CANDIDATE AND CAMPAIGN HAVE TO IDEA HOW LAWS ARE WRITTEN AND CREATED AND ON TOP OF THAT, WHEN THEY WERE CALLED OUT FOR IT RIGHTFULLY, NO, NO, WE ABSOLUTELY DOUBLED DOWN AND WE'RE CONFIRMED THAT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS AND WE STAND BY WHAT WE SAID.

THEY SHOULDN'T BE STANDING BY WHAT THEY SAID BECAUSE THIS IS 100% WRONG.

>> THEY REFERRED TO A COUPLE OTHER BILLS AND I DON'T THINK THOSE BILLS INCLUDED THIS EITHER.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS KARI LAKE AFTER THREE MINUTES -- HOBBS TRYING TO ERASE AMERICAN HISTORY, SHE VOTED FOR SEX EDUCATION IN KINDERGARTEN AND COSPONSORED MANDATED SEX EDUCATION IN KINDERGARTEN.

I'M SURE VOTERS TAKING ISSUE WITH THAT.

THEY SAID IN IN TERMS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THERE'S ANOTHER BILL AND THAT'S A LOT IN IT.

I LOOKED FOR THAT BILL NUMBER IN EVERY YEAR THAT KATIE HOBBS WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUBJECT MATTER.

I TEXTED THE CAMPAIGN, CALLED THEM AND NOBODY HAD AN ANSWER ON EXACTLY WHAT THIS OTHER BILL ALLEGEDLY WAS.

>> LET'S TALK, TOO, ABOUT THAT OTHER PART BECAUSE SHE'S SAYING WHILE KATIE HOBBS DOESN'T WANT YOU TO LEARN ABOUT THE PLEDGE OF THE CONSTITUTION, SHE WANTS TO TEACH THEM ABOUT SEX.

GOING TO THAT BILL YOU REFERENCED AGE APPROPRIATE SEX EDUCATION, TALKING ABOUT KINDERGARTENERS, WHAT IS AGE-APPROPRIATE SEX EDUCATION FOR KINDERGARTENERS?

IT'S GENERALLY THINGS LIKE GOOD TOUCH, BAD TOUCH, TELLING PEOPLE IF ANYONE TOUCHES YOU SOME PLACE UNCOMFORTABLE.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT HER VIDEO CONVEYED AND MAKING KINDERGARTENERS TO DO ORAL SEX OR SOMETHING.

>> SO THE IMPACT OF THIS, I MEAN, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO 'DO KNOWDON'TKNOW HOW TO READ A BILL AND WENT, OH, MY GOODNESS.

DOES THIS CIRCLE THE GLOBE BEFORE THE TRUTH GETS OUT OF BED?

>> IT ALSO FALLS ON -- THE MEDIA REPORTED ON IT AND JUST HOW WRONG THIS WAS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW I SAW THE HOBBS CAMPAIGN HOLD IT OUT THERE AND THEY HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO GOVERN.

A PRIME EXAMPLE OF HOW OUR OPPONENT DOESN'T HOW TO UNDERSTAND HOW THINGS WORK AT THE CAPITOL.

THEY'VE HAVEN'T TAKEN ANY OFFENSIVE OPPORTUNITIES LIKE I THINK A LOT OF CAMPAIGNS WOULD AIM TO DO.

>> JEREMY, MAYBE THEY'RE PLAYING DEFENSE HERE BECAUSE WE LEARNED KATIE HOBBS FAILED TO REPORT MOONLIGHTING INCOME BY, WHAT, AN UBER DRIVER?

>> SHE LOST HER JOB WITH A TRAINING PROGRAM FOR WOMEN CANDIDATES BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW LEGISLATORS MAKE $24,000 AND FOR A FEW MONTHS TOOK A SIDE GIG AS AN UBER DRIVER AND MADE $2700 AND THE AMOUNT OF MONEY NOT SIGNIFICANT, BUT, YOU KNOW, AS KATIE HOBBS KNOWS, YOU HAVE TO DISCLOSE ALL SOURCES OF INCOME AND CHECKING AND PUTS ONLINE.

YOU USE THESE RECORDS NOT ONLY OUT OF CURIOSITY AND THEY HAVE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, WHAT ARE THE INTERESTS AND WHAT THEY DO FOR A LIVING AND HOW IS THIS GUIDING THEIR DECISIONS AND PLATFORMS.

>> THIS TALKS TO JUDGMENT AND EXPERIENCE AND GETTING THINGS DONE.

>> IT LOOKS BAD BECAUSE SHE'S THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHO OVERSEES THE RECORDS AND FILES THE RECORDS WITH HER OFFICE.

I DON'T ULTIMATELY THINK THIS WILL BE A HUGE POSSIBLE FOR HER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT INTERESTED ME IN THE STORY THAT OUR REPORTER WHO BROKE THE STORY THAT KATIE HOBBS AND HER HUSBAND WERE FORECLOSED UPON AS A RESULT OF THE GREAT RECESSION AND I THINK THAT THERE WILL BE MONEY PEOPLE IN ARIZONA WHO CAN RELATE TO THAT AND SHE'S NOT A BILLIONAIRE TRYING TO RUN.

WAS IT A MISTAKE OF JUDGMENT TO NOT DISCLOSE THAT MONEY?

OF COURSE IT WAS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE IMPRESSED IF IT WAS 26,000 OR 26 MILLION SHE FAIL -- $2600, YEAH, SHE SHOULD HAVE REPORTED IT.

>> IT SOUNDED LIKE A CANDIDATE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL, A LOT OF THINGS GOING ON AND A LOT OF CONCERNS, AND ARIZONA MAYOR SAID ACT OPPONENTEDACCEPTED A THOUSAND DOLLARS FROM THE HUSBAND AND ONE OF THE FAKE ELECTORS.

>> HE IS, AND ABLE GOT AND ABE GOT THREW THAT AND THE THE WAY HE GOT THROUGH THAT WAS TOUTING 2020 ELECTION FRAUD AND THE BIG LIE.

HE STANDS BY THAT THE ELECTION WAS MARRED BY FRAUD AND SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN CERTIFIED AND PEOPLE SHOULD BE GOING TO JAIL FOR IT AND MORE EVIDENCE THAT IT'S NOT JUST A POSITION FOR HIM AND COURTING THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE ON THE GROUND LEVEL.

>> INDEED AND WE FIND OUT HE AND HIS BROTHERS WERE SUED BY HIS FATHERS IN A LAND TRUST CASE.

>> THAT WAS A CURVEBALL FOR THE CAMPAIGN SEASON AND THE NUMBER OF INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT ABE OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS AND THIS IS THE MOST RECENT, THERE WAS A TRUST THAT HIS FATHER HAD SET UP FOR HE AND HIS TWO BROTHERS IF HE PASSED AWAY THEY COULD DO THAT WITHOUT GOING THROUGH OTHER CHANNELS.

HIS FATHER SUED THEM AND THEY TRANSFERRED THE PROPERTY BACK TO THE TRUST.

SO APPARENTLY, THAT'S WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE AND CERTAINLY RAISING EYEBROWS ABOUT HIS CONDUCT.

>> HE SAYS IT'S IRRELEVANT AND GO AFTER MY OPPONENT.

>> THE ANSWER FOR EVERYTHING, GO AFTER CHRIS MAYS AND IF SHE WAS, WE WOULD BE GOING AFTER HER.

THIS IS A PART OF THE MAN'S PAST.

AND REMEMBER, WHAT HE WANTS TO BE IS ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE, THE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER AND THE STATE'S TOP ATTORNEY AND HE HAS AN ADVISER, A FAKE ELECTOR AND A BACKGROUND WHERE HE AND HIS BROTHER SCHEMED TO BASICALLY TAKE LAND AWAY FROM THEIR DAD AND I THINK IT IS TERRIBLY RELEVANT.

>> WE'LL STOP IT RIGHT THERE, PANEL, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AND HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

COMING UP NEXT IN THE HALF HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS, THE PHOENIX RISING MAKES SURE FANS CAN TRAVEL TO THE TEAM'S MATCHES.