>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS ON ARIZONA PBS, ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE WAIT IS OVER FOR THE MARICOPA COUNTY BALLOT AUDIT RESULTS.

WHAT WAS FOUND?

>>> ON CRONKITE NEWS, WE'LL TAKE YOU TO THE WATCH PARTY OUTSIDE THE CAPITOL AS THE ARIZONA AUDIT RESULTS WERE RELEASED >>> AND ON "BREAK IT DOWN," A LOOK WHY BLACK LGBTQ+ INDIVIDUALS FACE HEALTH CARE INEQUALITIES.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS OF FRIENDS FROM PBS, MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

GOOD EVENING.

>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE RESULTS OF A MONTHS' LONG REPORT WERE RELEASED TODAY.

THE SENATE HEARING LASTED HOURS WITH PRESENTATIONS WITH THOSE WHO RAN THE AUDIT BUT STARTED WITH SENATE PRESIDENT KAREN FANN SAYING A LEAKED REPORT SHOWING PRESIDENT BIDEN STILL WON ARIZONA WAS CORRECT BUT ALSO SLAMMED CRITICS OF THE AUDIT.

>> I FIND IT IRONIC THAT OUR SECRETARY OF STATE AND A FEW OTHERS CALLED IT THE SHAM AUDIT, THAT YOU CAN'T TRUST IT, YOU CAN'T BELIEVE IT.

THE INTERESTING FACT IS TRUTH IS TRUTH, NUMBERS ARE NUMBERS, AND SAID THAT FROM DAY ONE.

>> LATE YESTERDAY, THE FINAL DRAFT OF THE REPORT WAS LEAKED.

SHOWED THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN BEAT FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP AS THE OFFICIAL ELECTION RESULTS HAD SHOEVENLT ACCORDING TO THE LEAKED RESULTS, THERE WERE NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE HAND COUNT AND THE OFFICIAL CANVASS RESULTS FOR THE COUNTY.

THE REPORT REVEALED TRUMP LOST 266 VOTES WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN GAINING 99 VOTES.

THE REPORT REVEALED THAT FORMER SENATOR MARTHA McSALLY LOST 541 VOTES IN HER RUN WITH THE SENATE WITH SENATOR MARK KELLY LOSING JUST 60 IN THE COUNT.

DEMOCRATS RESPONDED TO THE LEAKED RESULTS.

>> ARIZONANS UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE PARTISAN AUDIT WAS ALL ABOUT FROM DAY ONE.

BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATIC OFFICIALS ALIKE HAVE COME TOGETHER AND SPOKEN OUT ABOUT IT.

WHICH MAKES THOSE WHO STAY SILENT OR THOSE WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO FAMOUSLY BACK THE AUDIT ALL THE MORE OUT OF TOUCH.

>> FORMER ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL GRANT WOODS HAS HARSH WORDS FOR THOSE WHO RAN THE AUDIT.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE IN THE SPOTLIGHT AGAIN, NOT BECAUSE OF JOHN McCAIN OR BARRY GOLDWATER OR MO UDALL OR SOMEONE LIKE THAT.

WE'RE BACK IN THE SPOTLIGHT BECAUSE WE'VE ELECTED A BUNCH OF IDIOTS AND THEY'VE GONE DOWN THIS RIDICULOUS PATH.

>> MARICOPA COUNTY SUPERVISOR CLINT HICKMAN CALLED ON FELLOW REPUBLICANS TO ACCEPT THE RESIGNATION OF KELLI WARD.

TOP ELECTED REPUBLICANS LIKE GOVERNOR DOUG DUCEY SHOULD PUSH FOR WARD TO STEP DOWN.

HE SAID AND I QUOTE, I THINK THE TIME HAS COME.

SHE HAS LED US TO A PARTY WHERE OUR FORMER PRESIDENT HAS LOST PUBLICLY THE ARIZONA VOTE AGAIN TO JOE BIDEN.

THAT IS HORRIBLE, AND I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS TYPE OF LEADERSHIP.

>>> TIME NOW FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND A LOOK AT SOME OF THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES.

WE WELCOME LUIGE DEL PUERTO WITH THE "ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES" AND HANK STEVENS OF ARIZONA AGENDA.COM.

WE SAY THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, WE MEAN THE DAY'S TOP STORIES FOR TODAY.

THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IS THE RESULTS OF THIS AUDIT THAT CAME OUT AND I WANT TO START WITH LUIGE, GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS.

>> SO THE RESULTS THAT WERE LEAKED YESTERDAY ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME AS THE FINAL RESULTS OF THIS AUDIT.

THE BIG TAKEAWAY, AS YOU NOTED, IS THAT THE CANVASS, THE OFFICIAL RESULTS FROM THE MARICOPA COUNTY CANVASS MATCH PRETTY ACCURATELY THE RESULTS OF THIS HAND COUNT AUDIT.

AND, IN FACT, AS YOU ALSO NOTED, BIDEN WON BY A COUPLE MORE VOTES IN THIS HAND COUNT AUDIT COMPARED TO THE OFFICIAL TALLY.

THERE WERE OTHER FINDINGS IN THE RESULTS PUTTING INTO QUESTION CERTAIN PRACTICES BY MARICOPA COUNTY.

THE FACT THAT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN CERTAIN ANOMALIES AS THEY PUT IT, THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT CERTAIN BALLOT DISCREPANCIES AND THEY WENT THROUGH THIS WIDE ARRAY OF POTENTIAL OR WHAT THEY CALL ANOMALIES, I THINK WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IS, THEY WILL SHOW UP IN LEGISLATION IN NEXT YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> AT THE END OF THE HEARING, THEY WENT OVER POTENTIAL LEGISLATION.

HANK STEPHENSON, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DO A DEEP DIVE.

WHAT'S YOUR INITIAL TAKE ON THIS?

>> I THINK IT WAS SURPRISING FOR WHAT WASN'T SAID.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE WORD FRAUD.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE WORD RIGGED.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR TRUMP WON.

YOU DIDN'T HEAR THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN.

WE HEARD A WHOLE LOT OF THESE ANOMALIES, POTENTIAL ANOMALIES.

MADE A SHORT LIST OF MY FAVORITE QUOTES.

WE'RE NOT EXPERTS, IT'S NOT IMMEDIATELY CLEAR, I HAVE QUESTIONS.

THAT WOULD BE GOOD TO KNOW.

WHAT WAS IMMEDIATELY APPARENT IS THE AUDITORS, SO-CALLED AUDITORS ARE NEITHER AUDITORS NOR ELECTIONS OFFICIALS.

THEY DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY BACKGROUND TO UNDERSTAND THE ELECTIONS PROCEDURES THAT WE USE HERE IN ARIZONA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT AN ELECTION WITH NO BACKGROUND KNOWLEDGE OF HOW ELECTIONS WORK, A LOT OF THINGS MIGHT LOOK SUSPICIOUS TO YOU, AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE SAID.

THIS LOOKS SUSPICIOUS.

THIS LOOKS SUSPICIOUS.

>> HANK, COULDN'T SOMEBODY MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT ELECTION INSIDERS WHO HAVE TOO MUCH INSIDE INFORMATION DON'T LOOK AT IT THE WAY AN OUTSIDER MIGHT AND THAT AN OUTSIDER MIGHT HAVE A BETTER PERSPECTIVE ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS, BRINGING IN A FRESH SET OF EYES?

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND WE COULD HAVE HIRED QUALIFIED AUDITORS WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT, IN AN OBJECTIVE, NONPARTISAN MANNER, THAT IS NOT WHAT THE STATE SENATE CHOSE TO DO, THEY CHOSE TO HIRE PEOPLE WHO HAD FRANKLY SPREAD THEIR CONSPIRACIES ALL ONLINE.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO BACKGROUND IN AUDITING, NO BACKGROUND IN ELECTIONS TO DO AN ELECTION AUDIT.

>> AND LUIGE, TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT, AS YOU SAID, THE NUMBERS ARE PRETTY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE COUNTY HAD BEFORE.

IN A WAY DOES THIS VINDICATE LITTLE BIT CYBER NINJAS AND THE ORGANIZATION THAT DID THE AUDIT, IN THE SENSE THAT THE NUMBERS THAT CAME UP WEREN'T THAT FAR OFF AND AS A RESULT THEY DID A DECENT JOB?

>> YOU CAN CERTAINLY LOOK AT IT THAT WAY, LOOK AT IT AS CYBERNINJAS DOING THEIR JOB AS THEY CLAIM THEY WERE DOING, AND CAME UP WITH THE RESULTS EVERYBODY KNEW WOULD BE THE RESULTS IF THIS AUDIT WAS DONE IN A PROPER MANNER.

YOU CAN GO INTO AN APPROACH WITH RESULTS THAT WAY.

I THINK MANY ELECTION OFFICIALS ESPECIALLY ARE VERY SKEPTICAL TO BEGIN WITH, WITH THE PREMISE OF THIS AUDIT THAT THERE WERE POTENTIALLY THE 2020 ELECTION WAS RIGGED, THAT TRUMP, THE PRESIDENCY WAS STOLEN FROM TRUMP, AND AS TO HANK'S POINT, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN CREDIBLY GET WHAT MANY, BOTH SIDES OR MANY PEOPLE CONSIDER TO BE CREDIBLE AUDITORS TO COME IN AND AUDIT THIS THING, I THINK THE PREMISE IS PARTICULARLY TOXIC TO BEGIN WITH.

AS I MENTIONED, THAT'S ONE WAY OF READING THIS RESULT.

MOST PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT THIS AND SAY THIS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DONE TO BEGIN WITH.

IT'S A WASTE OF MONEY.

WE SPENT FIVE TO EIGHT MONTHS DOING THIS THING AND CONFIRMED WHAT EVERYBODY WAS SAYING TO BEGIN WITH, THERE WAS NO FRAUD.

>> LET'S BRIEFLY LISTEN TO DOUG LOGAN, THE HEAD OF CYBER NINJAS, THE COMPANY BROUGHT INTO DO.

THIS HE WAS TALKING EARLIER TODAY ABOUT THE NUMBER OF EARLY BALLOTS AND A DISCREPANCY THAT WAS FOUND.

LISTEN TO WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> SPECIFICALLY, WE FOUND THEY WERE MAILED ONE BALLOT, BUT SOMEHOW TWO BALLOTS WERE RECEIVED, WHICH I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU WOULD HAVE ONE BALLOT SENT AND TWO RECEIVED.

THE ASSUMPTION IS THERE'S A CLERICAL ERROR OR SOMETHING GOING ON.

NOT CLEAR HOW CAN YOU HAVE THAT HAPPEN.

>> TO HANK'S POINT, AT NO POINT WERE THEY TALKING ABOUT FRAUD OR CONSPIRACIES, BUT IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WE DON'T HAVE A PERFECT SYSTEM AND THAT THERE ARE INACCURACIES, IF YOU WANT TO CALL THEM THAT, DISCREPANCIES THAT HAPPEN IN THE PROCESS?

>> OF COURSE IT'S NOT A PERFECT SYSTEM.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A PERFECT SYSTEM.

I COME FROM A COUNTRY WHERE THE SYSTEM IS SOUNDLY IMPERFECT TO A POINT WHERE YOU HAVE ELECTIONS THAT ARE RIGGED PRETTY REGULARLY.

THE LOSING CANDIDATE SAYS I'VE BEEN ROBBED.

THAT'S A NATURAL.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A PERFECT SYSTEM BECAUSE IT'S DESIGNED BY PEOPLE, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING ARE PEOPLE.

YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE FLAWS IN THE SYSTEM.

THE QUESTION TO ASK IS, IS THE SYSTEM SO FLAWED THAT YOU CANNOT TRUST IT?

AND I THINK THERE ARE TWO VIEWPOINTS HERE.

CLEARLY ONE VIEWPOINT SAYS YOU CAN'T TRUST THE SYSTEM, AND THE OTHER VIEWPOINT SAYS WE'VE HAD THE SYSTEM, IT'S BEEN WORKING, NOBODY HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT LOSING AN ELECTION UNTIL 2020 HAPPENED.

>> HANK?

>> I AGREE COMPLETELY THAT THERE IS NO PERFECT SYSTEM.

WE SEE A HANDFUL OF CASES OF VOTER FRAUD EVERY TWO YEARS, AND THOSE CASES ARE PROSECUTED USUALLY TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF THE LAW.

THIS WHOLE THING WAS PREMISED ON THE IDEA THAT THIS -- THAT THERE WAS WIDESPREAD MASSIVE FRAUD THAT CHANGED THE OUTCOME OF THE ELECTION.

THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

AND BEYOND THAT, I THINK THAT PLAYING A CLIP OF DOUG LOGAN TALKING WITHOUT GIVING THE COUNTY SIDE, YOU KNOW, ALLOWS THEM TO FURTHER TAKE THESE BITS OF INFORMATION THAT THEY FIND SUSPICIOUS AND PROMOTE THAT.

>> AND WE SHOULD MENTION THAT THE COUNTY HAS BEEN OUT TODAY MAKE COMMENTS ON TWITTER, DOING THEIR OWN FACT CHECK, ADDING SPECIFIC COMMENTS ABOUT WHY THEY BELIEVE THAT SOME OF THE STATEMENTS BEING MADE BY DOUG LOGAN AND CYBER NINJAS WERE INCORRECT AND SPECIFICALLY SAID IT'S BECAUSE HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND CURRENT ELECTION LAW THAT SOME OF THE THINGS HE VIEWS AS INACCURACIES ARE INDEED THINGS THAT ARE LEGALLY DONE.

SO TO YOUR POINT, THE MARICOPA COUNTY IS GETTING OUT AND SAYING THAT.

WE HAVEN'T UNFORTUNATELY BEEN ABLE TO INTERVIEW THEM YET TODAY.

>> RIGHT, FOR EVERY POINT THAT THE CYBER NINJA AUDIT RESULTS SAID WERE POTENTIAL ANOMALIES, THE COUNTY HAD A COUNTERPOINT, AND ON THE TWITTER FEED, THEY SAID SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT WHAT THE AUDIT RESULTS SHOWED IS THERE WAS NO FRAUD AND QUOTED JACK SELLERS, THE COUNTY SUPERVISOR SAYING EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOISE.

>> SO THE BOTTOM LINE IN ALL THIS, I GUESS, ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS GOING IN THE DOOR IS IT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYBODY'S OPINION, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT WAS STOLEN WILL CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT.

THE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IT WAS ACCURATE, BELIEVE IT.

ARE WE RIGHT BACK WHERE WE STARTED?

>> THE LIVE STREAM WAS CRASHING ON ME.

I WATCHED IT ON RIGHT SIDE BROADCASTING, WHICH HAD A HANDY LITTLE SIDE BAR OF TWEETS ABOUT IT THAT PEOPLE WERE ENTERING.

THEY WERE GOING AS FAST AS YOU COULD POSSIBLY READ THEM.

DECERTIFY THE ELECTION, DECERTIFY THE ELECTION, THIS PROVES FRAUD, DECERTIFY THE ELECTION.

NO, THIS DOES NOT CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS.

MAYBE THERE'S A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE THINK THAT NOW THAT THE CYBER NINJAS SAYS THIS, YOU KNOW, I WILL BELIEVE THAT THIS ELECTION WAS LEGITIMATE.

BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING THIS ARGUMENT ARE NOT DOING SO IN GOOD FAITH.

THEY ARE NOT OPEN TO PERSUASION WITH FACTS.

THEY ARE DOING -- MAKING THEIR DECISIONS BASED ON THE STATEMENTS OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND EMOTIONS.

>> AT THE END, DOUG LOGAN FROM CYBER NINJAS HAD A FAIRLY LENGTHY LIST OF POTENTIAL LEGISLATION, AND IT WAS DEEP DIVE.

IT WAS VERY NITPICKY DETAILED, OBVIOUSLY, IS THAT SOMETHING WE ARE ABSOLUTELY GOING TO SEE IN THE NEXT SESSION?

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE MANY OF THE RECOMMENDED LEGISLATION THAT ARE GOING TO SHOW UP AS LEGISLATION NEXT YEAR.

THERE ARE ENOUGH LEGISLATORS WHO ARE WILLING TO INTRODUCE THESE PROPOSAL, REGARDLESS OF THEIR POSSIBILITY, POTENTIAL POSSIBILITY, FEASIBILITY OF GETTING TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AND THE GOVERNOR SIGNING THESE MEASURES.

I THINK THERE WILL BE SOME THAT WILL GET THROUGH THE PROCESS, THERE WILL BE ENOUGH REPUBLICANS, WHILE THERE'S JUST ENOUGH REPUBLICANS IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

I THINK THAT WOULD GET THEM TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

SOME OF THEM.

SOME FORM, SOME MODIFICATION IT WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH, OF COURSE, THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

>> AND HANK, OBVIOUSLY, YOU WATCHED THE LONG LIST OF POTENTIAL LEGISLATION BEING PROPOSED BY DOUG LOGAN AND CYBER NINJAS, WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS AS YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE DETAIL ASSOCIATED WITH THAT?

>> I AGREE WITH LUIGE.

SOME OF THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO MAKE IT INTO LAW.

SOME OF THIS STUFF IS LIKE GETTING RID OF THE PERMANENT EARLY VOTING LIST, OR MAIL VOTING ENTIRELY, WHICH ALMOST 80% OF ARIZONANS CAST THE VOTE BY MAIL NOWADAYS.

I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT HAPPENS, BUT I DO IMAGINE THAT THERE WILL BE A BILL TO DO THAT IN THE LEGISLATURE NEXT YEAR.

>> WE KNOW LEGISLATION IS GOING TO HAPPEN, WE DON'T KNOW WHICH BILLS WILL COME TO PASS.

WHAT ELSE HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF THIS?

DOES THIS FLY INTO THE ETHERNET AND WE MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT THAT AS HISTORY?

>> NO.

>> NO.

>> A UNANIMOUS NO, LUIGE, EXPLAIN.

>> A COUPLE THINGS, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS JUST ONE OF THE FACETS, IF YOU WILL, OF A VERY COMPLICATED PROCESS THAT'S BEEN GOING ON OVER DECADES, WHICH YOU HAVE A GROUP OF AMERICANS, THEY VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT DONALD TRUMP WOULD DELIVER FOR THEM, AND WHEN HE LOST THE ELECTION, THEY IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

OF COURSE, AIDED BY THE FORMER PRESIDENT, NOT ACCEPTING THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION.

THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED PROBLEM IN THE UNITED STATES.

THIS IS, I THINK, JUST PART OF A BIG PROBLEM THAT WE'RE HAVING AS A NATION.

WE'RE TRYING TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, THIS DIALOGUE.

POTENTIALLY, I AM OPTIMISTIC THIS MOVES FORWARD.

I TALKED TO TWO SECURITY -- I SHOULDN'T SAY SECURITY PEOPLE, THEY WERE FOLKS PROVIDING SECURITY FOR THE PRO-TRUMP CROWD THAT WAS OUTSIDE THE U.S. SENATE, AND I ASKED THEM, HEY, THE RESULTS ARE GOING TO SAY THAT JOE BIDEN WON THE RACE.

IN FACT, THE UNOFFICIAL LEAKED REPORT SAY HE WON BY A COUPLE MORE VOTES THAN DONALD TRUMP.

AND ONE OF THEM TOLD ME IN ALL MILITARY REGALIA, IF THAT'S THE FINAL RESULT, WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.

>> HANK, WHERE DO WE GO?

>> WE GO ONTO VOLUMES 4, 5 AND 6, I IMAGINE.

THIS REPORT WAS VOLUMES 1, 2, 3.

A BIG THEME OF THESE PRESENTATIONS WAS, WELL, NOW THAT WE HAVE THE ROUTERS.

WELL, NOW THAT WE HAVE FILL IN THE BLANK, WE CAN GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT.

IN THE MEANTIME, THE RIFT CONTINUES.

THE POLITICIANS WILL BE USING THIS AS A FUND-RAISER, AS A WAY TO, YOU KNOW, GET ON NEWS STATIONS, AS A WAY TO GET ELECTED.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS OVER, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE OVER ANY TIME SOON.

>> FORMER CONGRESSMAN SHADAG WORKING WITH THE ROUTERS RIGHT NOW.

WE NEED TO TAKE A BRIEF LEFT TURN TO TALK ABOUT THE FACT WE HAD STEVE CHUCRI RESIGNING, A VICTIM OF THE AUDIT AT THE SAME TIME, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM VERY SURPRISED BY WHAT HAPPENED.

LUIGE?

>> WHAT HAPPENED WAS HE SAID SOME VERY CHOICE WORDS ABOUT HIS COLLEAGUES AND CAST ASPERSIONS ON HIS COLLEAGUES IN A CONVERSATION.

>> RELATING TO THE AUDIT.

>> REGARDING THE AUDIT, AND THE FACT THAT THE SUPERVISORS, THE COUNTY REALLY AS A WHOLE, HAD A VERY UNITED STAND, SAYING NO.

SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT CONVERSATION WAS RECORDED, WAS LEAKED AND WE KNOW WHAT HE SAID OFF THE RECORD, IF YOU WILL.

WHAT WAS REALLY SURPRISING TO ME WAS THE FACT THAT HE RESIGNED.

I SHOULDN'T BE SURPRISED BECAUSE I'VE BEEN HERE 15 YEARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IT IS NATURAL FOR PEOPLE TO SAY SOMETHING THAT THEY WOULDN'T SAY ON THE RECORD, RIGHT?

>> HE THREW HIMSELF ON THE SWORD PRETTY FAST.

>> HE DID.

>> HANK, WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON HIS RESIGNATION THIS WEEK.

>> YEAH, SAME THING.

I THINK IT WAS SURPRISING HE RESIGNED.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE REPUBLICAN BASE WANTED TO HEAR, BUT ALSO HE DESTROYED HIS ABILITY TO WORK WITH HIS COLLEAGUES AND THE BOARD PRIDES ITSELF ON BEING COLLEGIAL AND UNDERCUT EVERYTHING HIS COLLEAGUES, AND THEMSELVES, THE COUNTY HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR SEVERAL MONTHS.

WE DID ELECTION AUDITS, THEY SHOWED THE ELECTION IS CLEAN.

THE SENATE SHOWED IT WAS UNNECESSARY.

>> YEARS AGO, IT WOULD BE UNCOMMON TO SEE THIS HAPPEN.

IN THE CURRENT POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE SAY THINGS AND IT ROLLS OFF, IT SEEMS UNUSUAL.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND AND LUIGE DEL PUERTO FROM THE "ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES," THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> COMING UP, WE TALK TO SECRETARY OF STATE KATIE HOBBS ABOUT THE MARICOPA COUNTY BALLOT ELECTION AUDIT.

.

>> EARLIER TODAY WHILE THE HEARING WAS GOING ON, WE SPOKE WITH OUR CURRENT SECRETARY OF STATE KATIE HOBBS ABOUT THE RESULTS AND GOT HER IMPRESSION ABOUT WHAT SHE HAD SEEN SO FAR.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I GUESS THE FIRST QUESTION IS THE OBVIOUS QUESTION, WHICH IS WHAT'S YOUR REACTION SO FAR FROM WHAT YOU'VE HEARD?

>> THERE'S NO SURPRISES HERE, AND THERE HAVEN'T BEEN ANY SURPRISES FROM THE BEGINNING WHEN WE KNEW THAT THIS WHOLE EXERCISE IS BEING ORCHESTRATED BY FOLKS WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

THEY'RE NOT EXPERTS IN ELECTIONS.

THEY'RE NOT EXPERTS IN AUDIT.

THIS WHOLE PROCESS HAS BEEN FRAUGHT WITH PROBLEMS, LACK OF TRANSPARENCY, THE FACT THAT THEY'RE BEING LED BY THESE FOLKS WHO HAVE A CLEARLY PARTISAN AGENDA, AND THE MORE AND MORE INFORMATION COMES OUT, THE MORE WE SEE HOW VERY CLOSELY TIED A LOT OF THESE FOLKS ARE TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

>> BUT THE NUMBERS THEY'VE COME OUT WITH SO FAR ARE ACTUALLY VINDICATING.

THE NUMBERS ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT WERE THE ORIGINAL NUMBERS.

DID THAT VINDICATE THEM A LITTLE BIT THAT THEY'VE DONE A FAIR JOB?

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE PROCESSES WERE NOT ADEQUATE TO ENSURE VALID RESULTS, AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING DURING THE PRESENTATION OF THIS REPORT IS A WHOLE BUNCH MORE MISINFORMATION ABOUT BALLOT ENVELOPES AND SIGNATURE VERIFICATION, AND IMPLICATED BALLOTS -- DUPLICATED BALLOTS AND ALL THESE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THE PROCESSES WORK, AND ELECTION OFFICIALS HAVE TRIED TO EXPLAIN IT TO THEM AND THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN LISTENING BECAUSE THE AGENDA IS TO UNDERMINE THE PROCESS OF OUR ELECTIONS, UNDERMINE THE INTEGRITY AND CONTINUE TO SOW DOUBT AS WE HEAD INTO THE NEXT CYCLE.

>> DURING THE HEARING, CYBER NINJAS PRESIDENT DOUG LOGAN WAS SAYING SOME SYSTEMS NEED IMPROVEMENT.

IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF THE NUMBERS BEING WRONG BUT HOW WE ARRIVED AT THOSE NUMBERS.

YOU HEARD WHAT HE'S HAD TO SAY, DO YOU THINK THAT SOME OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOOD?

ALL OF THEM SHOULD BE THROWN OUT?

WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THE SUGGESTIONS AND THE PROBLEMS HE SAYS HAVE CREATED POTENTIAL INACCURACYS?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY THAT THESE FOLKS ORCHESTRATING THIS EXERCISE ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE CREATED THE PROBLEMS, AND NOBODY SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGES TO ELECTIONS BASED ON THIS EXERCISE.

IF THERE ARE CHANGES THAT NEED TO HAPPEN WITH ELECTION ADMINISTRATION, I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

COUNTY ELECTION OFFICIALS ARE HAPPY TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, BUT THEY NEED TO BE WELL-INFORMED ABOUT WHAT WE ACTUALLY DO AND ALL THE LAWS AND PROCEDURES AND PROCESSES AND SYSTEMS THAT ARE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW ALREADY TO KEEP OUR ELECTIONS SECURE, FAIR AND ACCURATE, AND WE DID ALL THOSE THINGS IN 2020.

THESE FOLKS JUST DON'T LIKE THE RESULTS, AND THEY'RE TRYING TO MAKE CHANGES BASED ON THAT, AND QUITE FRANKLY, IF THEY TRY TO DO THIS IN THE BACKFIELD WITHOUT TALKING TO ELECTION OFFICIALS, THEY'RE GOING TO CREATE A DISASTER.

>> AND MARICOPA COUNTY HAS COME OUT THIS AFTERNOON, ALREADY DONE FACT CHECKING AND SAID THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE GROUP DOING THE AUDIT SIMPLY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND VARIOUS ASPECTS OF ELECTION LAW.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> YEAH, THAT'S ABSOLUTELY -- I MEAN, IT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM, THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE LAW.

WHEN PEOPLE WOULD TRY TO EXPLAIN IT TO THEM, IT DIDN'T MATTER.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THE RIGHT ANSWER BECAUSE THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO PERPETUATE THE MISINFORMATION THEY'RE TRYING TO CONTINUE TO DO.

SO THAT'S ONE FACTOR FOR SURE, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER FACTORS, AND MARICOPA COUNTY'S BEEN FACT CHECKING THIS PROCESS ALL ALONG.

OUR OFFICE HAS COME UP WITH A REALLY COMPREHENSIVE REPORT, DETAILING ALL THE PROBLEMS IN THIS PROCESS THAT REALLY UNDERMINE ITS CREDIBILITY.

>> IS THERE VINDICATION FOR THE CREDIBILITY IN THAT THE FINAL NUMBERS THEY DELIVERED ARE FAIRLY ACCURATE COMPARED TO THE ORIGINAL COUNT?

IS THERE SOME VINDICATION THERE FOR CYBER NINJAS AND THIS AUDIT?

>> NO.

RIGHT NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO JUSTIFY WHY THE ELECTION WAS STILL FILLED WITH PROBLEMS, WHICH IT WASN'T, AND THE WAY THAT THEY ARRIVED AT THEIR COUNT WAS FRAUGHT WITH PROBLEMS.

IT WAS IN NO WAY A REAL AUDIT.

>> SO OTHER STATES ARE NOW LOOKING AT WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE, AND I'M SURE YOU'RE GETTING CALLS FROM OTHER STATES WANT TO KNOW WHAT SHOULD WE DO, AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO TELL THEM?

>> I MEAN, ANYONE LOOKING AT ARIZONA AND THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME, TRYING TO REPLICATE THIS ARIZONA-STYLE AUDIT IN OTHER STATES, MY ADVICE HAS BEEN DON'T GO DOWN THIS PATH BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO GET YOU ANYWHERE GOOD, AND AT THIS POINT, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY SERIOUS LEADER SHOULD BE -- ANYONE WHO IS CONSIDERING DOING THIS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS LEADER, AND ANYONE TAKING WHAT'S GOING ON IN ARIZONA SERIOUSLY SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A SERIOUS LEADER.

>> SECRETARY OF STATE HOBBS, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME TODAY.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, AND I'M SURE WE'LL BE HEARING MORE AS THE DETAILS OF THIS WORKOUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT.

Y.

>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

TED SIMONS WILL BE BACK ON MONDAY.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.