♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING OUR DEBATE BETWEEN CANDIDATES FOR STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>>> AND LATER IN THE HOUR ON CRONKITE NEWS, A GROWING PROBLEM FOR SCHOOL SPORTS, THE SHORTAGE OF REFEREES.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS.

MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE AND JOINING US TONIGHT FOR A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, BOB CHRISTIE OF ASSOCIATED PRESS, CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF THE ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES AND MARY JO PITZL OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

WANT TO GET TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DEBATE.

A LOT TO TALK ABOUT THERE.

MARY JO, THE VOUCHER CAME TO AN END IN THE LAST FEW DAYS.

>> YES, MERCIFULLY, THE STORY THAT KEEPS EVOLVING EVERY DAY.

SO LAST WEEK, SAVE OUR SCHOOLS SUBMITTED A BUNCH OF PETITIONS THAT THEY SAID THEY HAD MORE THAN ENOUGH TO BLOCK IN EXPANSION OF THE STATE'S VOUCHER PROGRAM.

OVER THE WEEKEND, PEOPLE GOT PUBLIC RECORDS, A COPY OF THE PETITIONS AND DID MATH AND CAME OUT MONDAY AND SAID IT AIN'T GOING TO MAKE IT.

IT WASN'T GOING TO MAKE IT, AND THAT LED, AND THE PRESS CONFERENCE PEOPLE DEMANDING THE SECRETARY OF STATE HURRY UP, CUT IT SHORT, YOU KNOW THERE AREN'T ENOUGH SIGNATURES AND EARLY THIS MORNING WE GET THE OFFICIAL NOTICE THAT INDEED THE MEASURE DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH SIGNATURES, THOUGH THEY'RE STILL COUNTING.

WE DON'T KNOW HOW FAR OFF THEY WERE.

TED: AGAIN, THE IDEA PEOPLE ARE PUSHING SECRETARY OF STATE KATIE HOBBS, GET IT DONE.

SHE SAID I'LL GET IT DONE WHEN I GET IT DONE.

>> THEY WERE TRYING TO GET HER TO GET IT DONE BY TODAY.

TODAY WAS THE DEADLINE FOR FAMILIES WHO WANT TO APPLY FOR UNIVERSAL ESAs TO GET FUNDING.

THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION SAID IF YOU ARE APPLYING, YOU GET FUNDING BUT MIGHT BE RETROACTIVE FUNDING, YOU CAN GET THE CONTRACTS BUT NOT THE CONTRACTS TO GET THE FUNDS, WHEN SCHOOL STARTS YOU ARE NOT GETTING AS MUCH AS YOU WANTED TO.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE URGING HOBBS TO GET THROUGH THE SIGNATURE VERIFICATION PROCESS BASED ON THE EVIDENCE FROM THE GOLDWATER INSTITUTE, CENTER FOR ARIZONA POLICY AND CHECKED BY REPORTERS AND SHE BASICALLY RESPONDED AND SAID LISTEN, I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I'M REQUIRED TO DO BY STATUTE WHICH IS COUNT EVERYTHING, BUT TODAY THEY'RE STILL COUNTING BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO, BUT THEY SAID THERE'S NO WAY IT'S ENOUGH, SO THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IS MOVING FORWARD WITH APPLICATION AND SAID EXTENDED THE DEADLINE FOR QUARTER ONE FUNDING TO OCTOBER 15.

TED: INTERESTING, IS THIS A DONE ISSUE OR POP UP DOWN THE ROAD?

>> IT WILL PROBABLY POP UP DOWN THE ROAD, OF COURSE.

YOU REMEMBER, IT WAS DEFEATED AT THE POLLS IN 2018, OVERWHELMINGLY, 2-1.

THE INTERESTING THING HERE, GOVERNOR DUCEY TOOK TEN DAYS TO SIGN THE BILL INTO LAW.

THAT CUT TEN DAYS OFF THE 90 DAYS THEY HAVE TO COLLECT SIGNATURES AND THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING, OH, YOU SHOULD DO IT IN LESS THAN 20 DAYS AND KATIE HOBBS SAYING I HAVE 20 DAYS JUST LIKE YOU HAD TEN, WINK-WINK.

GET THAT OUT OF THE WAY.

WANTED TO PUT THAT ON THE RECORD.

IT'S GOING TO BE MUCH HARDER TO STOP IT NOW BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TENS AND 20, HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS POTENTIALLY.

HUNDRED WAS PRIVATE SCHOOL AND HOME SCHOOL STUDENTS WHO AUTOMATICALLY GET THE MONEY RIGHT NOW IF THEY APPLY, PLUS EVERYBODY FROM PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

ONCE THE KIDS ARE IN THERE, CAN YOU PASS THE REFERENDUM IN 2024 TO STOP IT.

TED: EVEN IF THE PREVIOUS ONE PASSED 2-1?

I WOULD IMAGINE IT WOULDN'T BE 2-1 ANYMORE, BUT WOULD IT STILL HAVE A CHANCE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED A LOT.

PEOPLE ARGUE THAT DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN SCHOOLS SHUT DOWN, THEY STARTED TO SEE THE NEED, PUBLIC SCHOOLS SHUT DOWN, A LOT OF PRIVATE SCHOOLS DID NOT.

THAT STARTED TO CHANGE THE EQUATION IN THE WAY PEOPLE LOOK AT IT.

ARIZONA HAS UNIVERSAL SCHOOL VOUCHERS.

WE HAVE CHARTER SCHOOLS, SCHOOL TUITION ORGANIZATION MONEY, SCHOLARSHIPS AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

SO THERE'S THIS VAST ARRAY OF CHOICE, AND HOW IT SETTLES OUT.

REMEMBER, A VOUCHER ISSOME ONLY GOING TO GIVE YOU $7,000.

THAT MAY NOT COVER TUITION AT SOME PRIVATE SCHOOLS, AND SOME MAY BE DOING BETTER WITH SCHOOL TUITION ORGANIZATION SCHOLARSHIPS.

TED: LAST POINT ON THIS.

SHOULD WE EXPECT TO SEE A BUNCH OF NEW SCHOOLS OPENING UP, PRIVATE SCHOOLS THAT HAVE MAGICAL TUITION OF $7,750?

>> THAT'S WHAT THE DEMOCRATS SAY.

I DON'T THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE AGAINST IT.

CAPITALISM IS GOOD, COMPETITION IS GOOD.

THAT'S THE THEORY, BUT SURE.

>> THERE'S VERY LITTLE TO STOP THAT.

HARDLY ANY REGULATION ON THE USE OF THIS EXPANDED VOUCHER PROGRAM.

YOU GO RENT AN OFFICE IN THE STRIP MALL, YOU PUT TOGETHER A CURRICULUM, YOU HANG OUT A SHINGLE AND THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A WAY TO GO BACK AND FIND OUT HOW THOSE CHILDREN WHO WERE EDUCATED UNDER THE ESA, HOW THEY FAIR, NO STANDARDIZED TESTING.

THE ARGUMENT IS THAT PARENTS WILL BE THE BEST GAUGE OF THAT, BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF TAXPAYERS WHO CURRENTLY DON'T HAVE CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS WHO ARE HELPING TO PAY FOR THIS, AND I THINK THERE MIGHT BE SOME PUSHBACK TO WANT TAXPAYER ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT IT'S NOT IN THE LAW, AND THAT MIGHT BE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE NEXT LEGISLATURE AND WITH THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, THAT MIGHT BE AN ISSUE DOWN THE ROAD.

TED: INTERESTING POINT.

>> I WILL POINT OUT THE LEGISLATURE CAN ADD TO THAT 7,000 NEXT YEAR, AND IF IT TURNS OUT A LOT OF PARENTS ARE USING THE VOUCHERS AND THERE'S NOT ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY TUITION, THEY'RE GOING TO RUN DOWN TO THE LEGISLATURE AND SUSPECT THAT THE REPUBLICANS, IF THEY'RE STILL IN CONTROL, WHICH APPEARS LIKELY, WILL GLADLY GIVE IT TO THEM.

TED: BOB, STICKING WITH YOU, GET TO ATTORNEY GENERAL, ABE HAMADEH AND CHRISKRIS MAYES, EXCELLENTLY MODERATED.

WE SAW DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO CANDIDATES.

>> YES, KRIS MAYES WAS PUSHING ON ABE HAMADEH CONSISTENTLY THROUGHOUT THE DEBATE.

TOPICS TOOK OVER THE DEBATE.

ABORTION.

A LOT OF TIME ON ABORTION.

KRIS MAYES ARGUED HEARTLY, A, SHE WOULD NOT PROSECUTE ABORTION CASES AGAINST DOCTORS UNDER THE OLD LAW, WHICH IS NOW INTO EFFECT, AND, B, THE STATE CONSTITUTION GIVES UP HER RIGHT TO PRIVACY.

ABE HAMADEH SAID LISTEN, IF I'M ATTORNEY GENERAL, I DON'T GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT LAWS I ENFORCE NOT MENTIONING ATTORNEY GENERAL BRNOVICH PICKS AND CHOOSES.

THEY WENT BACK AND FORTH FOR QUITE A BIT.

IT WAS QUITE AN INTERESTING DEBATE.

I THOUGHT THE JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN THE TWO ON ELECTIONS WAS QUITE STARK.

HAMADEH DID NOT COME OUT AND SAY THE THINGS HE SAID AS STARKLY IN THE PRIMARY, WHICH IS COMPLETELY FRAUDULENT, 2020 ELECTION, BUT DID ADMIT THAT YEAH, I'M GOING TO TRY TO LOCK THEM UP, DIDN'T SAY WHO, KRIS MAYES MISSED AN OPPORTUNITY BY MENTIONING THERE WERE TEN CASES OF VOTER FRAUD IN 2020 PROSECUTED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

TEN.

COUNT THEM.

THAT IS NOT 3.1 MILLION.

TED: CAMRYN, DID YOU SEE -- DID ANYONE -- WAS THERE A WINNER HERE?

WAS THERE SOMEONE WHO STOOD OUT, MADE THEIR POINTS BETTER THAN THE OTHER?

>> I DON'T WANT TO SAY THEY LIKE SOMEONE BETTER THAN ANOTHER.

TED: NOT LIKE SOMEONE, BUT IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE?

>> IN TERMS OF PERFORMANCE THEY DID WELL.

MUCH LESS CHAOTIC AND MUCH LESS MEASURED THAN THE GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE WITH THE REPUBLICANS.

I THOUGHT THEY BOTH MADE SOME GOOD POINTS.

THERE WAS ONE INSTANCE, THOUGH, WHERE I BELIEVE IT WAS KRIS MAYES ASKING HAMADEH ABOUT VOTING FOR HIS MOTHER, CASTING HER BALLOT, AND INSTEAD OF ANSWERING THAT QUESTION, HE TURNED ON ONE OF THE MODERATORS AND SAID, HEY, WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL THE VIEWERS THAT KRIS MAYES WORKED FOR "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC"?

WHICH WAS SO FORCED AND AWKWARD, AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD MOMENT FOR MAYES.

TED: INTERESTING.

THERE SEEMED LIKE, AGAIN, WHEN IT COMES TO THE ELECTION, VERY STARK DIFFERENCES.

WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION DEBATE, KRIS MAYES, HE KEPT TRYING TO SAY YOUR PERSONAL BELIEFS, AND KRIS MAYES WAS SAYING IT'S NOT NECESSARILY PERSONAL BELIEFS, IT'S WHAT SHE SEES AS THE CONSTITUTION.

DO VOTERS WATCH THESE KINDS OF THINGS?

CAN YOU FIGURE IT OUT WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO SAY THERE?

>> SHE'S BEEN POUNDING THAT MESSAGE FOR MONTHS.

SO I THINK THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO.

ONE THING VIEWERS MIGHT COME AWAY WITH, SPENT A LOT OF TIME DEBATING EACH OTHER'S EXPERIENCE LAWYERING, AND THE IMAGE THAT THE LAWYER HAS TO BE THE PERSON IN THE COURTROOM, THE WHOLE PERRY MASON BUSINESS, WHICH IS NOT WHAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DOES, BUT I THINK YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM THE DEBATE THINKING, GOSH, NEITHER OF THESE GUYS HAVE BEEN IN THE COURTS MUCH.

I WILL SAY MAYES DID POINT OUT MOST OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S WORK IS ADMINISTRATIVE LAW, REPRESENTING STATE AGENCIES, AND A LOT OF IT CIVIL SUITS, SUCH AS WE WERE SEEING AND NOT SEEING FROM THE 2020 ELECTION, THE TEN PROSECUTIONS, THAT'S PART OF THE AG'S DUTY.

THERE ISN'T A WHOLE LOT OF CRIMINAL CAPITAL MURDER CASES.

OBVIOUSLY, THOSE HAPPEN.

TED: DID ABE HAMADEH COME ACROSS -- YOU MENTIONED THE PRIMARY, HE WAS MORE STRIDENT IN THE PRIMARY THAN THE GENERAL ELECTION DEBATE.

DID HE MAKE HIS POINT ACROSS, DID HE GET SHOTS AT KRIS MAYES?

>> HE DID.

HE HELD HIMSELF WELL.

I WATCHED EARLIER DEBATES BUT I THOUGHT HE'S DEVELOPED.

THIS IS A TOUGH THING TO DO, RIGHT?

TO GET UP WITH SOMEONE WHO YOU ARE RUNNING AGAINST, WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE DOING THAT, AND ACTUALLY DO WELL.

I THOUGHT HE DID FAIRLY WELL.

THE POLITICAL POINTS, WE CAN DISCUSS THAT ALL DAY LONG.

THE POINT HE HELD UP HIS END, SHE HELD UP HER END, IT WAS A DECENT DEBATE.

>> I THINK YOU WOULD HOPE, TWO PEOPLE WHO TRAINED AS LAWYERS WOULD KNOW HOW TO PRESENT THEIR CASE BEFORE AN AUDIENCE OF VOTERS, AND TO GO -- THE BACK AND FORTH WAS GOOD BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM.

>> DO YOU THINK, YEA OR NAY CHANGED ANYONE'S MINDS?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE'VE BEEN GOING AROUND THE ELECTIONS FOR SO LONG, THOUGH WE'RE TWO WEEKS FROM STARTING TO VOTE.

I TEND TO THINK PEOPLE'S OPINIONS ARE BAKED IN.

>> I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE.

WE'RE AT THE POINT OF THE ELECTION CYCLE RIGHT NOW WHERE THE PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T REALLY WATCHING BUT DO CARE, THEY WATCHED THE PBS DEBATE.

THEY DO.

INDEPENDENTS CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS BASED ON HOW THEY SEE PEOPLE PRESENT THEMSELVES AT THOSE DEBATES.

>> DO YOU THINK PEOPLE CHANGED THEIR MINDS IN THE DEBATE?

>> I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE, I THINK ANYONE WATCHING GOT A SENSE WHETHER OR NOT FOR EXAMPLE, ON ABORTION, AND IF AN INDEPENDENT WHO'S WATCHING THIS DEBATE WANTS TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE AS A LAWYER, THEY CAN LOOK THAT UP ANYWHERE AND FIND OUT.

DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES, BUT I THOUGHT THEY BOTH HELD THEIR GROUND.

TED: IF THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE THERE AND THE DEBATE SHOWED THE DIFFERENCE, THE DEBATE I'M SURE WAS A SUCCESS.

BOB, THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION, COULD THIS BE PRETTY DEEP WEEDS STUFF, LET'S NOT GIVE TOO MUCH INTO IT.

GIVING MONEY TO KARI LAKE, THE YUMA REPUBLICAN PARTY?

>> THE YUMA REPUBLICAN PARTY.

WHICH THEY'VE DONE BEFORE.

HERE'S THE WAY IT WORKS, THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION CAN SPEND DIRECTLY, BUT IF THEY FUNNEL IT THROUGH A POLITICAL CAMPAIGN, A POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN THE STATE, THEY GET A CUT, A DEAL ON THE RATES.

SO THEY CAN BUY MORE ADS FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT THERE'S A PROBLEM BETWEEN KELLI WARD AND THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION.

THEY DON'T GET ALONG, SO THEY FUNNEL IT THROUGH THE YUMA REPUBLICAN PARTY AND SNUB THE OTHER ONE AND GET MORE MONEY.

IT ALL WORKS OUT FOR EVERYBODY.

TED: YEAH, THAT CONFLICT BETWEEN STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND VIRTUALLY ANYONE IT SEEMS LIKE, IS THAT REALLY A PLAY HERE, A FACTOR?

>> STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY, A LA KELLI WARD.

THEY'RE SAYING IT'S NOT A SNUB.

I'M LOOKING INTO THIS THE WAY JEREMY DUDA LOOKED INTO IT, HE WROTE IT FIRST, THE REPUBLICANS ACCUSED HIM OF TRYING TO STIR UP DRAMA WHERE THERE IS NO DRAMA.

I SAY THERE IS DRAMA.

WHY NOT DEAL WITH THE STATE PARTY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH KELLI WARD?

TED: MAINSTREAM REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN CENSORING VIRTUALLY EVERYONE WHO WALKS THROUGH THE DOOR.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IT HAPPENED WITH THE JOHN McCAIN RACES.

AND THIS IS FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT WHAT HAS BEEN CONSIDERED THE TRADITIONAL BUSINESS SUPPORTING TAX CUTTING, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE-TYPE REPUBLICAN IS CERTAINLY NOT ASCENDANT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

TED: YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO ADD?

>> YUMA MONEY IS SUPPOSED TO GO TO THE KARI LAKE CAMPAIGN, THERE IS ANOTHER LAYER THERE BECAUSE KELLI WARD AND KARI LAKE HAVE BEEN SUPPOSEDLY ON THE SAME TEAM.

KELLI WARD WAS HELPING KARI LAKE WHEN SHE WAS GOING AGAINST TAYLOR ROBSON, AND NOW, YOU KNOW, SHE'S WORKING WITH YUMA, WORKING WITH THE RHA?

>> YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW FINANCES WORK, EVERYONE WHO GETS MONEY PASSED THROUGH THEM GETS CUT FOR ADMINISTRATIVE FEES.

NOW IT DOESN'T GO TO THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

TED: WOW, THAT'S MORE THAN I CAN HANDLE RIGHT NOW.

>> I'M SORRY.

TED: LET'S GET TO NUMBERS AND POLLING, THAT'S EASY TO FIGURE OUT.

MARY JO, WE GOT A GROUP OF GLOBAL STRATEGY GROUP, THEY'RE LEFT LEANING, I'M NOT SURE, THEY GOT SECRETARY OF STATE RACE ABSOLUTELY TIED, 45-45.

ATTORNEY GENERAL RACE -- I SHOULD SAY, 45-45.

SECRETARY OF STATE RACE FONTES TWO POINTS AHEAD OF FINCHEM.

THE RACES ARE TOO CLOSE TO CALL AS FAR AS POLLING IS CONCERNED.

>> THE NUMBERS BEAR THAT OUT.

AND GOAL BA STRATEGIES DID THIS ON BEHALF OF CITIZENS UNITED.

TED: ANOTHER POLL, "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY, WHICH YOU ARE MORE COMFORTABLE ABOUT.

MARK KELLY SEVEN POINTS UP OVER BLAKE MASTERS AND KATIE HOBBS, ONE POINT UP OVER KARI LAKE.

THEY'RE BOTH ACTUALLY WITHIN THE MARGIN OF ERROR, 4.4, 4.5.

STILL CLOSE RACES.

>> VERY MUCH.

YOU LOOK AT VOTER REGISTRATION, YOU HAVE THE REPUBLICANS WHO ARE THE MORE FAITHFUL, LOYAL VOTERS.

THEY TURN OUT, THEY VOTE ALL THE TIME, AND HAVE YOU THIS PROLONGED DEBATE ABOUT THE CANDIDATES, SORT OF ALL THE MAGA CANDIDATES THAT SWEPT THE GOP PRIMARIES, AND THEIR DEMOCRATIC CONTENDERS, AND I THINK IT SHOWS PEOPLE ARE -- I THINK THEY'RE FEELING THE TUG BETWEEN DO I STICK WITH PARTY LOYALTY, DO I GO WITH HOW I FEEL ABOUT HAVING A SLATE OF DONALD TRUMP ENDORSED CANDIDATES AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, OR IS THE ALTERNATIVE, IS A DEMOCRAT MORE PALATABLE?

THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE THINGS KNOTTED UP LIKE THIS.

TED: WHAT DO WE TAKE FROM THE NUMBERS, CAMRYN?

WE THINK EVERYTHING IS BAKED IN, CEMENTED IN, AND YET IT LOOKS LIKE CEMENTED INTO A TIE IN HALF THE RACES.

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IS SO CLOSE, THAT COULD MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE NEXT YEAR IF THE HOUSE AND SENATE STAY REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED.

IF THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FLIPS, THAT FORCES THEM TO NEGOTIATE.

IF IT DOESN'T, HAVE YOU FULL REPUBLICAN CONTROL AND MORE EXTREME REPUBLICAN CONTROL BECAUSE IT'S KARI LAKE, SO IT COULD AFFECT THE WHOLE ATMOSPHERE OF POLITICS IF THAT OFFICE FLIPS.

TED: ANY OF THE NUMBERS SURPRISE YOU AT ALL, BOB?

>> NOT PARTICULARLY, COUPLE OF THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT AMONG ALL THE POLLS, MARK KELLY WAS AHEAD IN SOME OF THEM BY 10, EVERYBODY FIGURED HE WAS WAY AHEAD.

THAT'S TIGHTENING IN THE POLLS.

HE'S LOST A COUPLE OF POINTS.

BLAKE MASTERS PICKED UP A COUPLE POINTS, THAT'S EXPECTED.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY BELIEVES A DEMOCRAT IS GOING TO WIN BY TEN POINTS IN ARIZONA.

HIGHLY UNLIKELY.

THE OTHER RACES?

YOU KNOW, THE PROBLEM WITH POLLING CONSISTENTLY IN ARIZONA IS IT FAILS TO REALLY GET CLOSE.

IF YOU LOOK OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, CYCLES WHERE THE POLLING CAME OUT IN ARIZONA FROM ALL SOURCES, IF YOU LOOK AT IT AFTER THE ELECTION, MOST OF THEM ARE A LITTLE BIT, ARE FAR OUTSIDE MARGIN IN A LOT OF WAYS.

TED: WASN'T THERE ONE BEFORE THE PRIMARY THAT HAD KARI LAKE UP BY 18 POINTS?

>> YES, YOU TAKE THESE, IT'S A DATA POINT, IT'S ONE POLLING SECTION AND DOESN'T TAKE IN THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDECIDED OR WHO AREN'T BEING REACHED BY POLLING.

USED TO BE EVERYBODY HAD A LAND LINE PHONE AND HAD A POLL, POLLING IS MUCH HARDER NOW.

TED: IT DOESN'T TAKE THEM IN BUT DOES IT DRAW PEOPLE IN, DO PEOPLE SEE A POLL, SO AND SO IS CATCHING UP OR LOSING, I WANT TO GET ON BOARD HERE OR DON'T WANT TO GET ON BOARD HERE?

>> WE TRY TO TAMP THAT DOWN AS JOURNALISTS, YOU SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUES, NOT ABOUT WHO'S AHEAD AT ANY MOMENT IN TIME.

A POLL IS A SNAPSHOT WHERE THINGS STOOD AT THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

IN THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S RACE, A POLL CAME OUT LAST WEEK AND HAD MARK FINCHEM AHEAD SIZABLY OVER ADRIAN FONTES, BUT IT CAME OUT ABOUT TWO WEEKS AFTER, THEY WERE IN THE FIELD MAKING THE PHONE CALLS AND GET THE OTHER POLL THIS WEEK SHOWING FONTES IS AHEAD.

IS THAT A NINE POINT FLIP?

PROBABLY NOT.

IT JUST DEPENDS WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO AND WHERE YOU'RE AT ON THE CALENDAR.

TED: POLLS ARE INTERESTING, BUT AGAIN -- >> THEY'RE ONE SNAPSHOT IN TIME.

I THINK WE CAN KICK SOMETHING AWAY FROM THEM, THEY INFORM -- THE ELECTORATE INFORM OUR REPORTING.

IF YOU FOLLOW IT UP WITH AN ELECTION OR A CAMPAIGN SPENDING A BUNCH OF MONEY OR NATIONAL GROUPS PULLING MONEY OUT, THE POLL IS PROBABLY RIGHT.

TED: CAMRYN, TALK ABOUT ABORTION LAW.

THE CONFUSION HERE, THE JUDGE'S RULING, THE GOVERNOR SAID IT DIDN'T RESOLVE WHICH LAW APPLIES.

MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY RACHEL MITCHELL SAYS THE LAW DOESN'T PROSECUTE WOMEN, IT SAYS YOU PROSECUTE PROVIDERS AND SUCH LIKE THAT.

WE DID A COUPLE STORIES ON THIS, IT'S A LOT OF CONFUSION OUT THERE.

>> I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHERE TO START.

YES TO ALL OF WHAT YOU SAID, SO AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, THERE ARE TWO LAWS IN ARIZONA AND VARIOUS PUBLIC OFFICIALS THINK THE LAWS ARE TAKING EFFECT.

THE GOVERNOR HAS SAID FOR A VERY LONG TIME THAT THE 15-WEEK BAN THAT WAS INSTITUTED THIS YEAR IS THE LAW.

HE HAS STOOD BY THAT, BUT THE PERSON WHO DRAFTED THAT LAW, CATHY HERROD AND NANCY BARTO SAY NO, THAT WAS THE IN THE INTENTION, WHEN ROE V. WADE IT WAS NOT TO TAKE OVER THE ABORTION BAN.

THAT HAS EXCEPTIONS FOR THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER, BUT OTHER THAN THAT, IS VERY, VERY STRONG, AND SO THERE WAS THIS INJUNCTION IN PIMA COUNTY, AND THERE WAS A JUDGE WHO RULED ON IT LAST WEEK AND SAID THAT, NO, NO, THIS OLD 1970s CASE, YOU CAN'T USE THIS INJUNCTION TO GET OUT OF THIS LAW, AND THEN RACHEL MITCHELL, WHO IS THE MARICOPA COUNTY ATTORNEY SAID THAT SHE IS NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE WOMEN, BUT NEITHER OF THE LAWS SAY YOU CAN PROSECUTE WOMEN.

BOTH OF THE LAWS SAY YOU'RE PROSECUTING DOCTORS WHO PERFORM ABORTIONS.

SHE'S MAKING A STATEMENT THAT NO ONE ASKED HER TO MAKE.

TED: THE PIMA COUNTY ATTORNEY BASICALLY SAID LOOKING AT AVAILABLE LEGAL REMEDIES, CITY OF TUCSON HAS NO PLANS TO PROSECUTE ANYONE AS OF YET.

IT'S A MASS OF CONFUSION OUT THERE.

>> IT REALLY IS.

GOVERNOR DUCEY SAYS THE LAW HE SIGNED IS IN EFFECT.

HE DIDN'T FILE ANYTHING IN COURT.

HE DIDN'T RUN DOWN THERE.

THAT'S, I THINK, YOU CAN WRITE HIM OFF AS A POLITICAL PLAYER IN THIS BECAUSE HE COULD HAVE HAD HIS LAWYER FILE AND SAY, NO, MINE IS ENFORCED, BUT HE DIDN'T.

RACHEL MITCHELL IS PLAYING POLITICS WITH THIS BECAUSE SHE CAN'T PROSECUTE WOMEN.

THE COMPANION OF LAW THAT BANS ABORTIONS AND PROSECUTES DOCTORS PROSECUTED WOMEN TOO AND THE LEGISLATURE REPEALED IT LAST YEAR.

IT'S NOT ON THE BOOKS, THERE'S NO WAY TO PROSECUTE A WOMAN FOR TRYING TO GET AN ABORTION OR GETTING ONE.

THAT WAS DISINGENUOUS, I THINK THEY'RE ADDING TO THE CONFUSION BY NOT BEING STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH THE PUBLIC WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> SO WHERE WE STAND TODAY, AND WHO KNOWS, IT COULD CHANGE IN AN HOUR, WE HAVE THE COURT IN PIMA COUNTY SAYING THAT THE TERRITORIAL ERA LAW, WHICH IS BASICALLY VERY FEW EXCEPTIONS EXCEPT FOR THE LIFE OF THE MOTHER THAT PROVIDERS CAN FACE THREE TO FIVE YEARS IN PRISON.

THAT'S LAW.

WELL, SO IS THE ONE THAT THE LEGISLATURE PASSED THIS YEAR THAT DUES SEE POINTING TO, THE 15-WEEK BAN, AND BECAUSE OF THAT, PLANNED PARENTHOOD WENT TO THE PIMA COURT THIS WEEK AND SAID, LOOK, GOT THIS EMERGENCY MOTION.

JUDGE, PUT THIS ON HOLD UNTIL WE GET APPEAL.

WE GOT TO SORT THIS OUT, AND BOTTOM LINE IS THAT CONFUSION STILL REIGNS EVER SINCE THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNED ROE.

TED: IS THERE A CHANCE, CAMRYN, FOR THE SPECIAL LEGISLATURE TO DO SOMETHING?

I THOUGHT I SAW SOMETHING ABOUT THAT BUBBLING UP.

>> EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

I HEARD RUMBLINGS ABOUT A SPECIAL SESSION SINCE I STARTED THIS JOB.

WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE.

SOME PEOPLE WANT THAT FOR CLARITY SAKE.

IT COULD EVEN BE ENTIRELY NEW ABORTION LAW BECAUSE THERE'S THE IDEA FROM REPUBLICANS THAT ANYONE WHO WANTS ABORTION COULD GO OUT OF STATE TO CALIFORNIA AND GET ONE, SO MAYBE WE NEED TO PASS A LAW THAT'S STRICT THAT STOPS THEM FROM DOING THAT SOMEHOW.

WE COULD DIVE INTO ANOTHER REALM LIKE THAT.

IN TERMS OF WHERE WE STAND NOW, CAN WE GET ABORTION IN ARIZONA.

I DON'T KNOW THAT DOCTORS ARE COMFORTABLE DOING THAT, THEY DON'T WANT TO GO PRISON, IT'S A HECK OF A RISK.

>> ALL THE PROVIDERS HAVE SHUT DOWN, ATTORNEY GENERAL BRNOVICH SAID IN A LETTER HE SHOULD CALL A SPECIAL SESSION TO FIX THIS.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET ALL THE REPUBLICANS TO GO ALONG.

THEY'RE ALL PRO-LIFE, RIGHT?

>> BUT HOW MUCH.

>> HOW MUCH?

WHICH ONE IS GOING TO VOTE FOR 15-WEEK AS OPPOSED TO TOTAL BAN AND RUIN THEIR CAREER AND HAVE CATHY HERROD COME AFTER THEM?

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET TO 50% PLUS ONE IN BOTH CHAMBERS AND THE GOVERNOR TO SIGN IT.

>> WITH AN ELECTION COMING UP.

>> AND WITH THE LEADERSHIP HAVING TO BE ON BOARD AS WELL.

WE GOT A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT HERE, AND MARY JO, WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS ONE, YOU REMEMBER VERY WELL WHEN BOB BURNS WAS ON THE CORPORATION COMMISSION AND WANTED TO GET TO APS RECORDS TO SHOW WHAT THEY WERE SPENDING FOR POLITICAL CANDIDATES AND A BIG FIGHT WHETHER HE COULD DO IT ALONE BECAUSE THE REST OF THE COMMISSION WASN'T INTERESTED IN DOING THAT.

THE COURT SAYS BOB BURNS, YOU WIN.

>> CLINT BOLICK WHO WROTE THE OPINION, THE WAY HE READS THE LAW, INDIVIDUAL COMMISSIONERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO SUBPOENA RECORDS AND MAKES NO SENSE TO SAY THAT A VOTE OF THE FULL COMMISSION COULD OVERRIDE, THAT BECAUSE WHAT'S THE POINT OF THE LAW GIVING THE COMMISSIONER THE POWER TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS?

SO IT LOOKS LIKE GOING FORWARD, WE'VE GOT FIVE PEOPLE ON THE COMMISSION.

IF ONE OF THEM WANTS TO ISSUE SUBPOENAS OR TWO, THEY CAN GO AHEAD AND DO THAT AND CAN'T BE BLOCKED BY COLLEAGUES.

>> AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, HE PRETTY MUCH WON, DIDN'T HE?

>> HE DID.

I BELIEVE IT'S FOUR, FIVE YEARS AGO NOW, HE LEFT OFFICE TWO YEARS AGO.

I CALLED HIM UP AND HE GOES, YEAH, IT'S BEEN FOREVER.

[LAUGHTER] >> BUT MOVING FORWARD, AND BOB BURNS POINTED THIS OUT.

THERE COULD BE A DOWNSIDE TO THIS AND THE COURT POINTED IT OUT IN THE RULING.

YOU GET ONE ROGUE COMMISSIONER WHO DOESN'T LIKE A COMPANY, AND HE COULD JUST GO RIGHT AFTER HIM AND VERY LITTLE TO STOP HIM OTHER THAN THE COMPANY GOING TO COURT TO SAY HE'S GOT NO REASON TO GET MY STUFF.

TED: WE SHOULD MENTION THAT APS PROMISED TO PLEDGE NOT TO FUND CORPORATION COMMISSION CANDIDATES.

>> ABOUT 3.4 MILLION IN SPENDING IN THE 2014 ELECTION.

TED: AND THE IDEA BEING YOU NEED TO DEPEND ON THOSE FOLKS TO AGREE WITH YOU IF YOU WANT TO GET TO THE RECORDS THAT SHOW THOSE FOLKS RECEIVED THE MONEY.

>> RIGHT, AND ARE BACKING YOU ON THE COMMISSION.

THERE'S A LOT OF STINK THERE AND BOB BURNS MADE SURE THE STINK IS NOT GOING TO BE THERE ANYMORE.

TED: ALL RIGHT, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY I SAID BEING BUBBLING AND WORKING THE SYNTAX.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW, I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

COMING UP NEXT ON ARIZONA PBS, ON CRONKITE NEWS, HOW THE MUSIC OF KEYBOARDIST BOBBY FREEMAN INSPIRES BASEBALL CROWDS AT CHASE FIELD?