♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >>> COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING GOVERNOR HOBBS ATTEMPTING TO WORK AROUND THE STATE SENATE AND GETTING AGENCY HEADS APPOINTED.

THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE AND JOIN US TONIGHT, MARK BRODY OF KJZZ RADIO, BOB CHRISTY OF CAPITAL MEDIA SERVICES, AND BOB FISHER OF CAPITAL MEDIA SERVICES.

MARK, WE'LL START WITH YOU.

AND THE GOVERNOR TRYING TO WORK AN END-AROUND OVER SOMETHING WE TALK ABOUT ALMOST EVERY WEEK ON THIS PROGRAM.

FIGHT BETWEEN AGENCY -- WHAT SHE WANTS IN THERE AND HOW THE SENATE IS SLOW WALKING ALL THIS.

WHAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK?

>> SO BASICALLY THE GOVERNOR DID WHAT A LOT OF DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN ASKING HER TO DO FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW, WHICH IS TO GO AROUND THE SENATE.

SHE WITHDREW 13 NOMINEES FOR VARIOUS AGENCIES ACROSS STATE GOVERNMENT.

AND BASICALLY, APPOINTED THEM AS DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTORS, WHICH DO NOT NEED SENATE CONFIRMATION, AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE GOVERNOR.

BUT THEY WILL HAVE THE JOB THAT A DIRECTOR WOULD HAVE.

THEY JUST DON'T HAVE TO GET CONFIRMATION FROM THE SENATE.

AGAIN, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT A NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN SAYING, WHY DON'T YOU -- YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALREADY BECAUSE OF THE PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN ONGOING OVER THE LAST SEVERAL MONTHS, TO CONFIRM AND HEAR HER NOMINEES.

>> AND THE GOVERNOR BASICALLY SAYING SHE'S DOING THIS BECAUSE THE PROCESS HAS BECOME AS SHE'S CALLED IT A SIR CUSHION.

>> YEAH.

IT -- CIRCUS.

>> YEAH, IT HAS.

THERE'S BEEN 16 NOMINEES, THREE OF THEM WERE REJECTED, SEVERAL WERE NEVER ACTED ON IN ONE OF THE LONGEST SESSIONS IN HISTORY.

WE DIDN'T -- AUGUST 1st?

HORRIBLE.

SEEMED FOREVER.

AND THEN THE MOST VIOLENT ONE, THE HOUSING DIRECTOR NOMINEE, WAS JUST PILLARRIZED FOR LITTLE STUFF.

SO SHE JUST FINALLY HAD ENOUGH AND YOU KNOW, WE WERE ON THE SHOW A COUPLE WEEKS AGO AND I ALMOST BROUGHT IT UP AND IF I DID, I'D LOOK PRETTY -- [INAUDIBLE] YOUNG -- YOUNG YOU KNOW, SHE HAS TO FIND A WAY AROUND THEM BECAUSE SHE'S GOING TO BLOCK THEM.

SHE SAID AT THIS POINT I WILL BE IN MY SEND TERM BEFORE ALL OF MY NOMINEES GET HEARINGS.

>> WHAT THIS COMES DOWN TO, COLLOQUIALLILY, IS WHAT SHE'S TELLING THE SENATE IS SCREW ME, OH, NO, SCREW YOU.

HERE'S THE DEAL.

I FOUND AS BOB SAID, THE WORK-AROUND.

THERE IS NO SUCH POSITION AS EXECUTIVE DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

AND IT WAS ELEGANT THE WAY SHE DID IT.

ONLY DIRECTORS CAN APPOINT AGENCY DEPUTY DIRECTORS.

SO SHE TOOK BEN HENDERSON WHO'S OUR OPERATIONS CHIEF, AND SAID, OKAY, BETWEEN 1:00 AND 1:05, YOU ARE THE INTERIM DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE AND YOU GET APPOINTED DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

OKAY, WE GOT A DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

NOW YOU'RE HEAD OF ANOTHER DEPARTMENT.

AND WENT THROUGH ALL OF THIS.

AND COMPLIED WITH THE LAW IN TERMS OF HOW DUPE DIRECTORS HAVE UPON A -- TO BE APPOINTED.

AGAIN, CAN YOU RUN AN AGENCY FOREVER ON THAT?

THERE WAS SOMETHING UNDER THE SIMMINGTONSTRATION WHERE THEY DID THAT OVER THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION.

BUT NOBODY CHALLENGED IT.

THIS IS GOING TO COURT.

>> AS BOB REFERRED AND KIND OF MADE A MENTION HERE, IT WAS THAT HOUSING APPOINTMENT THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT WAS THE LAST STRAW.

>> I MEAN, IT WAS THE MOST RECENT HEARING.

AND YEAH, SHE WAS ACCUSED OF PLAGIARISM AND ALL SORTS OF STUFF FROM THE SENATE COMMITTEE.

BUT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THIS IS KIND OF BEEN BUBBLING AT LEAST UNDER THE SURFACE FOR A LITTLE WHILE, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, A FEW OF HER NOME NIECE HAVE BEEN REJECT -- NOMINEES HAVE BEEN EJECTED BY THE COMMITTEE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS WITHDRAWN A COUPLE ALREADY, AND THEY'VE SAID, THE REST, THEY HAVEN'T EITHER GOTTEN HEARINGS IN THE SENATE COMMITTEE OR THEY HAVE AND HAVEN'T BEEN CONFIRMED BY THE FULL SENATE.

>> AND THIS IDEA -- EXECUTIVE DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

BOB, HAS THIS IDEA BEEN DONE -- NOT THIS PARTICULAR IDEA, BUT THE INTERIM GETTING AROUND, LET'S GET -- YOU GOT TO FILL THESE AGENCIES?

>> YOU HAVE TO FILL THE AGENCIES.

PARTICULARLY, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL FOR -- TECHNOLOGICALLY, IT'S NOT -- PARTICULARLY, IT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

WE'VE NEVER DONE WITH.

WE DON'T HAVE A DIRECTOR.

WE HAVE A DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

AND THE WORK-AROUND IS BEN HENDERSON IS -- HAS BEEN APPOINTED INTERIM DIRECTOR OF ALL OF THE AGENCIES THAT DON'T HAVE DIRECTORS.

AND THEN HE SUBAPPOINTS.

SO HE'S THE ACTUAL DIRECTOR OF ALL OF THOSE AGENCIES AND HE CAN SERVE A YEAR BEFORE BEING -- AND SHE WILL NEVER OF COURSE SEND HIS NOMINATION TO THE SENATE.

>> RIGHT.

>> HE'S GOT A YEAR AND SHE COULD PUT SOMEONE ELSE IN THERE AND GET ANOTHER YEAR.

SO.

>> CAN SHE DO THIS?

[LAUGHTER] >> OKAY.

>> IS THIS LEGAL?

>> WELL, I -- HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

AGAIN, GOING BACK TO SIMONTON ADMINISTRATION.

THE DEMOCRATS CONFIRMED ONE OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS APPOINTEES.

NOT SO MUCH OF HIM BUT BECAUSE WE WANT TO HOLD SOMETHING OVER OUR HEAD SO YOU DON'T VETO OUR BILLS.

HE SAID THAT'S OKAY, I'LL NAME THIS PERSON THE DEPUTY DIRECTOR.

THEY DIDN'T GO THROUGH THE CHARADE OF APPOINTING SOMEBODY IN BETWEEN.

THE DEMOCRATS NEVER SUED.

AS IT TURNED OUT, THIS GUY RE-SIGNED BEFORE HIS YEAR WAS UP.

INTERIM DIRECTOR OR WHATEVER.

SO IS IT LEGAL?

NOW YOU'RE DONE TO A PROBLEM OF WHAT WOULD THE COURTS DECIDE.

COURTS HEAD TO BE -- HATE TO BE THE THIRD BRANCH HATES TO BE THE -- YOU KNOW, THE NEEDIARITY BETWEEN THE FIRST BRANCH -- MEDIATOR BETWEEN THE FIRST BRANCH AND SECOND BRAN.

I WOULD SAY IF THIS GOES TO COURT, AND I'M ASSUMING IT WILL, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WARREN PETERSEN'S PROBLEM IS, I WOULD SAY THE COURTS SHOW ME WHERE IT'S ILLEGAL.

>> RIGHT.

THIS ALL KIND OF COMES UP BECAUSE OF WHAT THE SENATE PRESIDENT DID, WHICH WAS CREATE THIS -- THIS NOMINATION COMMITTEE.

>> TYPICALLY, THE NOMINEES WOULD GO THROUGH THE COMMITTEE.

THE STANDING COMMITTEE, EXISTING COMMITTEE, THAT'S SORT OF IN THEIR PURVIEW, LIKE THE TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT WOULD GO TO THE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE AND THE FINANCE AND REAL ESTATE PERSON MIGHT GO THROUGH THE FINANCE COMMITTEE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT AS YOU SAY, THIS TIME SENATE PRESIDENT PETERSON SET UP THIS SEPARATE COMMITTEE CHAIRED BY A CLOSE ALLY TO BASICALLY VET ALL OF THE NOMINEES AND IT'S BEEN MOVING AT A VERY, VERY SLOW PACE AND AND A LOT OF GOTCHA MOMENTS AND FIREWORKS.

FOR A LOT THE NOMINEES, THERE HAVEN'T BEEN HEARINGS.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS CONCERNED ABOUT.

>> IT GOES BEYOND THAT.

IT'S ONE THING TO QUESTION SOMEBODY ABOUT THE THINGS WITHIN THEIR PURVIEW.

I'M NOT SURE WHERE SOMEBODY'S POSITION ON ABORTION FITS IN WHETHER THEY'RE HEADING THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS AN EFFORT BY JAKE HOFFMAN WHO SETS THE QUOTE/UNQUOTE FREEDOM CAUCUS AND I USE THAT TERM LOOSELY, TO SAY I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE IDEAS THAT ARE CONTRARY TO MINE BECAUSE MAIN THEY WILL GO OUT ON THEIR OWN WITH THIS LIBERAL GOVERNOR AND ENACT THINGS BY RULE.

THAT'S FINE, BUT THE LEGISLATURE HAS THE LAST WORD IN TERMS OF WHAT'S IN STATUTES.

>> YES.

>> SO THIS IS A -- TO GET INTELLECTUAL PURITY, IF YOU WILL.

>> THE GOVERNOR DID SAY SHE WOULD RETURN GETTING HER NOMINEES TO THE SENATE IF YOU RETURN TO THE REGULAR PROCESSES MARKED DESCRIBE.

IT'S BEEN DOWN THERE FOR YEARS.

>> THAT'S WHAT SHE SAYS SHE'LL DO.

WHETHER SHE FALLS THROUGH, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE SENATE DOES.

>> YES.

>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS A FIGHT OVER -- IT'S A DEMOCRAT VERSUS REPUBLICAN.

WE'VE WATCHED ALL YEAR AS THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE HAVE TRIED TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE FACT THIS THEY DON'T HAVE THE OTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

HOW DO THEY EXERT THEIR HOUR, HOW DO THEY SAY WE DON'T HAVE -- THEIR POWER, HOW DO THEY SAY WE DON'T HAVE THE EXECUTIVE -- THEY CAN'T GET THEIR POLICIES THROUGH.

THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT THEY'VE REALLY BEEN ABLE TO HANG THEIR HAT ON TO CRIMP HER STYLE AT THIS POINT.

>> THE OTHER THING THAT WILL BE INTERESTING IS WILL ANYBODY SUE OVER THE ACTIONS OF THESE DIRECTORS.

WE SAW THAT FROM STATE TREASURER KIMBERLY YE THIS WEEK WHO REFUSED TO SEAT TWO MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF INVESTMENT SAYING THEY'RE NOT LEGALLY THERE AND SHE WAS CONCERNED IF SHE ALLOWED THEM TO VOTE, SOMEBODY COULD SAY THIS THIS WAS ILLEGAL BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE WERE VOTING ON BOARD MEMBERS.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN RESPONSE.

JUST IN GENERAL, SENATE PRESIDENT WARREN PETERSEN SAID THE SAME THING.

EVERY DECISION THEY MAKE, HE USED THE PHRASE DUBIOUS, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ANY THEY'RE LEGALLY IN THEIR POSITIONS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> THE PROBLEM WITH THE DECISIONS IT'S GOING TO COME DOWN NOT TO THE NORMAL DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS BUT CERTAIN THINGS, THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY.

THEY HAVE PERMITS THAT GET ISSUED OR NOT ISSUED AND IF THEY'RE APPEALED, IT GOES THROUGH THE OFFICE OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING AND BACK TO THE DIRECTOR, QUOTE UNQUOTE.

IF THERE'S NO DIRECTOR THERE AND THE ACTING DIRECTOR, THE EXECUTIVE DEPUTY ASSISTANT PEOPLEBA ISSUES A DECISION -- PUMBAA ISSUES A DECISION, I THINK THAT'S CHALLENGEABLE IN COURT.

I THINK SOMEBODY WHETHER CHALLENGE IT.

THIS HAS LESS TO DO WITH THE QUESTION OF THE SENATE CHALLENGING THE ISSUE THAN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE AFFECTED BY THESE AGENCY DECISIONS, SAYING NO, YOU DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

>> THIS BUYS A LOT OF TIME.

THIS BUYS THE GOVERNOR A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF TIME.

JAKE HOFFMAN IS FURIOUS ABOUT IT.

HE HAS BUILT HIS REPUTATION IN HIS FIRST SESSION IN THE SENATE OFF OF RUNNING THIS DIRECTOR NOMINATIONS COMMITTEE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HE HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF PRESS OVER AND WITH HIS -- WITH THE BASE, IT'S BEEN A BIG DEAL.

SO YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT HAPPY HAPPY ABOUT THIS AND HE CALLS IT ILLEGAL.

WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHETHER SOMEONE ACTUALLY SUES AS HOWIE SAID IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND YOU KNOW, SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

>> I THINK HE SAID THE GOVERNOR, HE CALLED IT A TEMPER TANTRUM BY THE GOVERNOR.

>> TEMPER TANTRUMS?

ARE YOU KIDDING?

IN GOVERNMENT.

>> WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT.

>> THIS BRINGS TO US WHAT MARK TALKED ABOUT.

>> TREASURER YE HAS KEPT A RELATIVELY LOW PROFILE WHEN CAMPAIGNING.

SHE WAS NOT AMONG THE HIGH "MAGA" FOLKS.

THAT'S WHY PEOPLE THINK SHE GOT ELECTED.

BUT SHE'S MAKING A LOT OF NOISE RIGHT NOW.

>> THIS COMES DOWN TO THE FACT WE HAVE A STATE BOARD OF INVESTMENT.

IT HAS OVERSIGHT POWERS, LOOSELY, OVER THE -- BILLIONS OF DOLLARS THAT THE TREASURER HAS, INCLUDES THE TREASURER, SOME FINANCIAL EXPERT, SOMEBODY FROM ONE OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAS ITS ASSETS THERE.

AND THEN TWO DEPARTMENT HEADS.

THE HEAD OF THE DEPARTMENT ADMINISTRATION AND THE DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE AND THE FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS.

AGAIN, AGENCIES WITH EXECUTIVE DEPUTY DIRECTORS.

SHE TOLD THEM, YOU'RE NOT WELCOME AT THE MEETING.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO SIT IN THERE AS A MATTER OF PUBLIC YOU CAN, BUT BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT APPOINTED, SO SHE SAID THEY CAN'T.

NOW, THE GOVERNOR SHOT BACK SAID, WAIT A SECOND.

BUT THEY WERE DULY APPOINTED AND THEREFORE, THEY HAVE TO BE THERE.

YE SAID, NOW, WAIT A SECOND.

OUR ACTIONS ARE ILLEGAL BECAUSE WE HAD A QUORUM OF THREE THERE.

THEREFORE, YOU CAN'T TRY TO UNDO IT.

THIS RACES AGAIN -- YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN COURT.

IF YOU HAVE AN AGENCY WHERE THEY'VE TAKEN AN ACHES AND DENY -- ACTION AND DENIED THE VOTING RIGHTS TO TWO PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT BE LEGALLY SERVING, HERE WE GO BACK TO COURT.

>> AND IN THE FLURRY OF RELEASES THIS AFTERNOON, MARK, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE BASICALLY SAID WHAT TREASURER YE DID WAS ILLEGAL.

SHE SAID WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS DOING IS WRONG AND I'M GOING TO KEEP DOING WHAT I'M DOING.

IT'S PING-PONG.

>> IT'S SORT OF A WAR OF WORDS AND DUELING LETTERS RELEASED TO THIS PUBLIC.

AND I THINK AS HOWIE AND BOB HAVE POINTED OUT, SOMEBODY HAS GOT TO SORT THIS OUT.

AND IT'S PROBABLY -- EXCUSE ME, GOING TO HAVE TO COME DOWN TO SOME COURT SAYING, THIS IS LEGAL OR IT'S NOT.

OTHERWISE, YOU JUST HAVE ALL OF THESE VARIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE GOVERNOR CAN DO THIS, WHETHER THE APPOINTEES ARE LEGALLY IN THEIR POSITION.

AND AND IF THEIR ACTIONS IN THOSE POSITIONS ARE LEGAL AS WELL.

>> AND AGAIN, I THINK TREASURER YE, I THINK SOMEONE ELSE MIGHT HAVE BEEN PETERSON, I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO, WAS SAYING THE GOVERNOR CALLS THESE DESIGNEES.

THEY'RE EMPLOYEES, AND NOT PART OF THE -- WHAT?

>> THEY HAVEN'T BEEN -- SO THE DIRECTOR HAS TO BE -- SHE HAS TOLD ALL HER -- PULLED ALL HER DIRECTOR NOMINATIONS.

SO ALL THE FORMAL NOMINATIONS ARE GONE.

SHE'S AINTEREST POOED ONE OVERARCHING DIRECTOR OVER ALL THINGS.

AND THAT'S NOT LEGAL IN THEIR VIEW.

AND PEOPLE RUNNING THE AGENCIES DON'T HAVE THE POWER IF THEIR VIEW.

THE GOVERNOR THINKS SHE HAS.

SHE HAS LAWYERS.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS LAWYERS.

KIMBERLY YE IS PROBABLY GOING TO LAWYER UP.

WE'LL BE RUNNING DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE.

>> FOR EXAMPLE, IF THE LAW SAYS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION SERVES ON A BOARD, OR THAT PERSON'S DISNEY, AGAIN -- DESIGNEE, MOW DIRECTOR -- NO DIRECTOR, NO DESIGNEE.

THAT CAN PARALYZE ASPECTS OF MANY, MANY GOVERNMENTS BEYOND THIS AGENCY.

>> TREASURER, ARE WE SEEING THE START OF A GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN HERE?

>> I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT SHE WAS RUNNING FOR INITIALLY LAST YEAR BEFORE SHE DROPPED OUT OF THAT RACE AND DECIDED TO RUN FOR RE-ELECTION AS TREASURER.

I MEAN, THERE'S CERTAINLY SPECULATION.

I MEAN, SHE SENT OUT A RELEASE ABOUT HER ACTING -- BEING ACTING GOVERNOR WHEN GOVERNOR HOBBS AND ATTORNEY GENERAL MAYES AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOUNDES WERE OUT OF THE STATE, WHICH -- AND BASICALLY MADE IT A POINT ABOUT THESE NOMINEES, THIS ISSUE AGAIN.

SO THERE ARE SOME RUMBLINGS ABOUT MAYBE THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN JUST HER ROLE AS TREASURER.

>> HERE'S THE FASCINATING PART.

BECAUSE IF YOU BELIEVE THE ARIZONA CONSTITUTION, IN THE ABSENCE OF THE GOVERNOR FROM THE STATE, IN NEXT PERSON TAKES OVER.

SECRETARY OF STATE.

SECRETARY OF STATE GONE, ATTORNEY GENERAL TAKES OVER.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GONE.

KIM EARLIER B -- KIMBERLY YE HAS THE POWER TO MAKE APPOINTMENTS TO CALL THE LEGISLATURE AND THE SPECIAL -- INTO SPECIAL SESSION AND YET FOR ALL HER BLUSTER, SHE DIDN'T WANT TO DO THAT.

>> BUT THAT'S NEVER BEEN DONE.

>> I KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S NEVER BEEN TESTED AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

IS NOBODY IS WILLING TO TEST IT.

EVEN WHEN YOU HAD A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICAN AND PRESIDENT SECRETARY OF STATE OR VICE VICE VERSA.

>> LOGICALLY, IF SHE DID THAT AND CALLED THE LEGISLATURE INTO SESSION AND THEY SENT A BILL UP TO HER, THE GOVERNOR WOULD BE JETTING BACK AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

THERE'S A CERTAIN TIME.

YOU HAVE TO READ BILLS OVER THREE DAYS.

YOU CAN'T -- >> BUT YOU'RE USING REASON HERE.

[LAUGHTER] >> MY QUESTION IS IS SHE GONNA LOSE POINTS AMONG THE "MAGAS" ANDHARDT RIGHTS FOR -- AND HARD RIGHTS FOR NOT TAKING ACTION WHEN SHE WAS GOVERNOR?

>> THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME.

SHE'S GAINING AS MANY POINTS AS SHE HAD -- THAT SHE COULD POSSIBLY GET BY PUTTING IT OUT THERE THAT SHE COULD HAVE.

SHE COULD HAVE.

>> OKAY.

COULD HAVE.

>> COULDA WOULDA.

>> THERE ARE ALSO REASONABLE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER VOTERS NEXT YEAR WILL REMEMBER THAT THIS WHOLE THING EVEN HAPPENED.

>> RIGHT.

>> THIS IS A FAIRLY WONKY THING THAT DOESN'T AFFECT THE DAY-TO-DAY LIVES OF MOST ARIZONANS.

SO THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THAT COULD BE FORGOTTEN IN THREE MONTHS.

>> IT COULD BE FORGOTTEN AGAIN AMONG REASONABLE PEOPLE, BUT THERE ARE SOME WHO SAY YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE AND YOU LOST.

HOWIE, WALL STREET JOURNAL NOW GETTING INTO THE ACT SAYING WHEN KARI LAKE IS GOING TO RUN FOR SENATE.

SHE'S PROBABLY GOING TO DO IT IN OCTOBER.

WE DON'T KNOW.

"WALL STREET JOURNAL" SAYS OCTOBER 10th, THAT'S THE DAY TO START BLOWING UP THE BALLOONS.

>> I HAD AN RSVP TO THE LAKE FOR FILL IN THE BLANK HERE CAMPAIGN.

FOR THEIR EVENT AT 5:00 P.M. ON OCTOBER 10th.

AND THEN -- THEY'LL SEND ME A LOCATION AFTER THEY DECIDE I'M OKAY.

OF COURSE, THIS COMES DOWN TO THE QUESTION THAT YOU HAVE TOO ASK HER.

-- YOU HAVE TO ASK HER ON OCTOBER 10th.

DOES THAT MEAN YOU'VE GIVEN UP BEING GOVERNOR?

IF YOU'RE RUNNING FOR THE SENATE IN '24, AND COULD YOU STILL BE RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN '22?

>> NOT ONLY THAT.

BOB, SHE SAYS SHE IS THE DULY ELECTED GOVERNOR.

SHE HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE LOSS IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

DOES THIS MEAN, OKAY, I'M -- OR IS SHE RUNNING AS THE DULY ELECTED GOVERNOR?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE'S GOING TO SAY ON THE 10th OF OCTOBER.

BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT WHAT SHE WILL SAY IS WLE WHEN I WIN IN COURTS, THEN I WILL TAKE MY GOVERNORSHIP.

BUT IF I LOSE, THEN YOU HAVE ME AS SENATOR.

BUT SHE ALSO -- YOU KNOW, SHEARS WHAT'S INTRIGUING ABOUT THIS.

SHE'S POSITIONING HERSELF TO BE DONALD TRUMP'S RUNNING MATE, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> AND SHE'S BEEN GOING TO ALL HIS EVENTS.

SHE'S BEEN A -- I WAS GOING TO SAY MOUTH PIECE, WHICH IS DEROGATORY, BUT THAT WAS THE TERM POPPED TO MIND.

SHE'S BEEN TALKING FOR HIM.

SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO GRAB THE "MAGA" CROWD REALLY WELL, NOT JUST IN ARIZONA BUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND DOES THIS MEAN THAT SHE'S GIVEN YOU HAVE THERE?

>> DOES THIS MEAN THAT TRUMP HAS GIVEN ON HER?

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

I MEAN -- I MEAN, HE STILL HAS TO MAKE A DECISION.

SHE IN THEORY I GUESS COULD RUN FOR SENATE AND I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A CAMPAIGN PART OF HER CAMPAIGN IF SHE WERE TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, MR. PRESIDENT, I'M SORRY, I CAN'T DO THIS.

I CAN'T BE YOUR RUNNING MATE.

I'M RUNNING TO BE U.S.

SENATOR.

I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE THAT HELPS HER -- >> COULD YOU IMAGINE THE SCENARIO.

LET'S SAY KARI LAKE RUNS FOR U.S. SENATE.

WINS THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IN THE FIRST AUGUST.

THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION IS SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THAT.

TRUMP PICK -- TRUMP PIBS HER.

WHO'S GOING TO TAKE HER PLACE IN THE SENATE, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T BE ON THE BALLOT TWICE, RIGHT?

SO THAT WOULD BE -- >> AND THERE'S ANOTHER LITTLE PIECE OF IT.

ASK SHE -- IS SHE RUNNING AS THE GOVERNOR IN WAITING?

ARIZONA HAS A RESIDELINE TO RUN LAW.

YOU CAN -- RESIGN TO RUN LAW.

YOU CANNOT RUN FOR OFFICE EXCEPT FOR THE LAST YEAR OF YOUR TERM.

LAST YEAR OF THE GOVERNOR'S TURN, IF QUOTE UNGOAT GOVERNOR LAKE IS '26, IF SHE'S ANNOUNCENOUNCING FOR THE SENATE AND SHE'S REALLY THE GOVERNOR, WAIT, NO, YOU CAN'T.

SO YOU HAD TO GIVE UP THE GOVERNOR'S SEAT.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO BOB'S IDEA.

THAT'S INTERESTING.

COULD -- EVEN THE SCENARIO THAT BOB LAID OUT KOA THIS MEAN OTHER REPUBLICANS MIGHT START EXPRESSING INTEREST, NOSING AROUND A LITTLE BIT?

KARRIN TAYLOR ROBSON HAS BEEN OUT THERE AGAIN JUST MAKE SOMETHING PRETTY BOLD STATEMENTS.

>> IT WOULD BE INTERESTING, BECAUSE NOBODY HAS GOTTEN IN OTHER THAN PINAL COUNTY SHERIFF MARK LAMB SO FAR, UNDER THE ASSUMPTION, MANY PEOPLE LIKE BELIEVE, THAT CAREI LAKE WILL GET IN SHE'S THE FRONTRUNNER AND THE PRESUMED -- IF SHE GETS IN WILL PROBABLY WIN THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION.

WE HEARD ABOUT BLAKE MASTERS.

TALKING ABOUT MAYBE GETTING IN.

AND THEN WE HEARD FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLED HIM AND SAID YOU CAN'T WIN, YOU KNOW, AGAINST KARI LAKE, SO MAYBE YOU SHOULDN'T GET IN.

BUT IT'S CERTAINLY AN INTERESTING SORT OF PARLOR GAME.

IF SHE GETS IN, WINS THE NOMINATION, AND THEN IS APPOINTED OR NOMINATED TO BE THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, WHAT DO REPUBLICANS DO.

DO THEY NOMINATE SOMEBODY ELSE FROM THAT WING OF THE PEAR OR DO THEY TRY TO -- WING OF THE PARTY OR DO THEY -- >> WHO ELSE IN THE WING OF THE PARTY?

>> THIS IS A PROBLEM AND IT'S BEEN A WHILE.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS IF THE PERSON WHO WAS NOMINATED IN THE PRIMARY DIES, WHATEVER, IT IS UP TO THE PARTY TO GET IN SOMEONE ELSE.

NOW YOU HAVE THE QUESTION OF WHO'S CONTROLLING THE PARTY.

IF THE PARTY IS CONTROLLED BY THE "MAGA" WING, THEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT A BLAKE MASTERS OR MAYBE YOU KNOW, A SHERIFF MACK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> MARK FINCHEM.

>> HE'S AVAILABLE.

>> HOLY -- I WON'T SAY IT.

BUT THAT BECOMES THE ISSUE.

IF THE PARTY GETS TO DO THAT, ASSUMING THERE'S THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE OF COVERI LAKE -- KARI LAKE, DEPENDS ON WHO THE PARTY PICKS.

AND THEN THE PARTY HAS TO BE LOOKING AT THE FACT, LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENED LAST TIME WE NOMINATED SOMEBODY FROM THIS WING.

DO WE REALLY WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN OR SHOULD WE GO WITH THE SAFER BET, IN TERMS OF -- >> IF THIS SCENARIO PLAYS OUT, THEY'VE ALREADY DONE IT AGAIN.

THEY NOMINATED KARI LAKE.

>> THAT WAS NOT THE PARTY -- THERE WAS SOME EXECUTIVES IN THE PARTY WHO MAY -- MAY -- >> PARTY OFFICIALS.

>> REMEMBER, THE ARIZONA'S U.S. SENATE SEAT IS VERY MUCH IN PLAY THIS YEAR.

WE'VE GOT RUBEN GALLEGO, KIRS TEENE -- KYRSTEN SINEMA, EVERYBODY HAS BEEN SHOWING HE'S SHOWING -- SAYING SHE'S SHOWING A PATH TO VICTOR ON FUND-RAISING TOURS.

THERE'S AGRAPHIC -- A GRAPHIC, THE POSTEOR TIMES.

SOMEBODY HAS GOT IT AND IT'S OUT THERE.

AND THEN WE HAVE -- WHO DOES THE REPUBLICANS PICK.

AND THAT'S CONTROL OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE GOING THROUGH ARIZONA AGAIN, AS WELL AS POTENTIALLY CONTROL OF THE PRESIDENCY.

>> YOU ALSO KIND OF WONDER IF -- IF PRESIDENT TRUMP, ASSUMING HE WINS THE NOMINATION, IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT -- HE WOULD LOOK AT THIS RACE AND SAY I'D MUCH RATHER HAVE KARI LAKE IN THE SENATE FIGHTING FOR ME.

HE WOULD ASSUME THAT SHE WOULD WIN.

AND MAYBE HE COULD GO WITH SOMEBODY ELSE.

LEAVE LAKE IN THE SENATE RACE AND HOPE THAT SHE WINS -- >> YOU ARE GIVING HIM WAY TOO MUCH CREDIT FOR DEEP POLITICAL THOUGHT!

I'M SORRY.

>> HE'S GOT PEOPLE ARUN HIM.

>> -- PEOPLE AROUND HIM.

>> DOUG DUCEY ALWAYS SAID I DON'T WANT TO RUN FOR SENATE.

I'M AN EXECUTIVE AT LATER.

I DON'T SEE LAKE -- AT HEART.

I DON'T SEE LAKE BECOMING A SENATOR.

THERE'S 50 OF THEM AND YOU CAN'T BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT WHEN YOU'RE A SENATOR.

>> OKAY.

BEFORE WE GO, THE GALLEGO CAMP.

HEAR TO HEAR -- HAPPY TO HEAR THAT SHE'S IN THE RACE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> EVERYONE AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I THINK THE MORE IT GETS DIVIDED UP.

I THINK HE'S HOPING SHE'S THE NOMINEE.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT SEEMS REASONABLE.

HE'S SPENDING OUT FUND-RAISING EMAILS, TALKING ABOUT KARI LAKE FOR A WHILE.

>> OKAY.

THE SINEMA CAMP.

ARE THEY HAPPY TO HEAR SHE'S GOING TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL?

>> THAT PART IS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WOULD SEEM AS THOUGH, BASED ON WHAT BOB WAS TALKING ABOUT, HER SORT OF PATH TO VICTORY, RELIES ON A PRETTY DECENT SHARE OF REPUBLICANS.

SO HAVING SOMEBODY LIKE KARI LAKE THAT A NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS HAVE ALREADY NOT VOTED FOR IN THE PAST, SINEMA IS PROBABLY ISN'T UNHAPPY ABOUT THAT.

>> BOB?

>> THAT'S A DIFFICULT ONE, RIGHT.

SO NOW I'M RETHINKING WHETHER REUBEN IS HAPPY THAT KARI LAKE GOT IN, BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE A BUSINESS REPUBLICAN, A TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN, RUNNING, AND YOU HAD RUBEN GALLEGO AND KIERS TEENE IN THE FRONT.

SHE WOULDN'T PICK OFF NAN REPUBLICANS.

THIS GIVES HER MORE OF A PATH IF KARI LAKE IS IN THIS.

>> HOWIE?

>> YOU PLAY THESE GAMES AND IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHEN FOLKS GO TO THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER OF 2024.

THEY CAN DO A LOT OF -- WHAT'S THE LEAST OF THE EVILS.

>> WHO KNOW WHAT THE LATEST HEADLINE IS THAT WILL AFFECT EVERYTHING.

WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT HERE.

SPEAKING OF KARI LAKE, SHE HAS A BACKUP PLAN IF HER CURRENT COURT CHALLENGE REGARDING ENVELOPES AND SIGNATURES, IF INTEREST DOESN'T GO -- DOESN'T LOOK VERY GOOD FOR HER.

IF IT DOESN'T GO THREE -- THROUGH, IT MATE NOTICE BE OVER YET?

>> OH, YOU'RE GONNA LOVE THIS!

KARI LAKE WANTS ACCESS TO THE BALLOT ENVELOPES AND MORE SPECIFICALLY THE SIGNATURES ON THEM SAYING, ONCE I HAVE THEM, I WILL TURN THEM OVER TO MAYBE MY FRIENDS AT WE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH THE GREAT 2020 AUDIT AND THEY WILL CAN PAM -- COMPARE IT TO ACTUAL RECORDS.

THEY WILL SHOW THERE'S TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SIGNATURES THAT DIDN'T MATCH.

THEREFORE, WE SHOULD RERUN THE ELECTION OR DECLARE MY GOVERNOR.

-- ME GOVERNOR.

THE JUDGE HASN'T BUYING THE ARGUMENTS OF HER ATTORNEY.

TURNS OUT BRIAN BLEM IS ALSO THE ATTORNEY FOR WE THE PEOPLE, WHICH FILED ITS OWN IDENTICAL RECORDS REQUEST.

THEY FILED WITHIN 35 MINUTES OF EACH OTHER.

BUT WE THE PEOPLE IS CLAIMING IT'S AN AGENCY -- AND THE LAW MA THAT I CANS THIS STUFF CONFIDENTIAL HAS HAS AN -- THAT IS AN EK -- HAS AN INCEPTION FOR REPORTERS.

IF YOU BELIEVE WE THE PEOPLE IS A REPRESENTATIVE AGENCY, I HAVE A BRIDGE FOR YOU.

>> THEY DO NOT FIT ANY OF THE QUALIFICATIONS THAT YOU AND I AND EVERYBODY ELSE AROUND THIS TABLE IN THE TRADITION MEDIA BELIEVE.

HOWEVER, THE DEFINITION OF MEDIA HAS BLOWN UP OVER THE -- THE LAST 20 YEARS OF MY CAREER.

YOU KNOW, WHAT USED TO BE -- YOU KNEW IT WAS NEWSPAPERS.

YOU KNEW IT WAS RADIO, TELEVISION.

AND THEN NOW WE HAVE SOME INTERNET PEOPLE.

AND THEN MAYBE THERE'S SOME BLOGGERS.

DO THEY QUALIFY AS REPORTERS?

BUT THIS, I MEAN, CLEARLY, WE THE PEOPLE S AZ IS A POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE THAT'S -- THEY HAVE A SIDE LINE OF COLLECTING INFORMATION.

BUT THEY'RE PRIMARILY ADVOCATES.

AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE KEY IN THAT LAWSUIT.

>> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE LOST A LOT OF MONEY BETTING ON WHAT A COURT IS GOING TO RULE.

BOB IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

THE DEFINITION OF WHAT CONSTITUTE SUBSTITUTES A REPORTER AND A -- CONSTITUTES A REPORTER AND NEED WERE -- MEDIA AGENCIES HAS CHANGED DRASTICALLY.

>> WHEN THE THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TRIED TO KEEP OUT THE GATEWAY PUNDIT BLOGGER FROM THEIR MEETINGS AND SAID YOU'RE NOT TRADITIONAL, THEY HAD TO SETTLE OUT OF COURT AND PAY OVER $100,000 IN LEGAL FEES AND SAY, YOU'RE WELCOME BACK.

>> SO BASICALLY, WE GET TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THIS FOR EVEN LONGER, HUH?

>> OVEN, HEAVEN -- OH, HEAVEN HELP US.

>> IT'S NOT GOING AWAY.

>> OH, GENTLEMEN.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

HAVE YOU A GREAT WEEKEND.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪