(upbeat music) - Coming up next on this special literary edition of "Arizona Horizon," local artists and authors, Jana Bommersbach and Bob Boze Bell, talk about their new book, "Hellraisers and Trailblazers", about Women of the Wild West.

Plus author and journalist Laurie Notaro has a new book out that takes a humorous look at the mayhem of middle age.

(upbeat background music) - [Narrator] This hour of local news is made possible by contributions from The Friends of PBS, members of your PBS station.

Thank you.

(upbeat music) - [Presenter] Arizona Horizon is made possible in part by the generous support of the Pakis Family Foundation.

(upbeat music) - Good evening and welcome, to this special edition of "Arizona Horizon."

I'm Ted Simon.

Jana Bommersbach and Bob Boze Bell are longtime Arizona writers, artists, and personalities.

They've collaborated on a new book that focuses on women of the Old West.

Gutsy, fearless, smart, and stubborn women, who in many cases, are unknown and unheralded.

The book is titled "Hell raisers and Trailblazers: the Real Women of the Wild West."

We recently were joined by Jana Bommersbach and Bob Boze Bell, a couple of hell raisers themselves.

Good to see you both again.

- Oh it's great to be here.

- Yeah, who do we start with?

Jana will start with you.

Real Women of the we... What set this off?

How'd this get started?

- Well, this has been Bob's dream for 30 years, mine for about 20, and we've been noticing and have been writing about in True West Magazine.

These incredible women who have been unknown to history or history tried to ignore them, or poo-hoo them away, as men tried to claim that they alone had done the West, and we know that is not true.

And so our collaboration came about because we wanted to be sure that the rest of the country knew about what was going on in the Old West and how strong and fabulous these women were.

- Well, yeah, and I mean, honky-tonks, I mean, you kind of had this idea for 30 some odd years?

- Yes.

Back in, I think it was '70s, I had this idea that I would do a timeline, and it was time for Wild Women of the Wild West.

Well, then life got in the way, I had kids, we bought a magazine, I woke up like 28 years later, and I said two things to myself.

One is, "It's time for the book".

And two, "A honky man can't do this by himself."

(all laughing) Okay, he better have a female.

Well, there was only one woman I would call.

- And you, you wrote "Cattle Kate," I mean, you've been down this road, this trail before, I should say.

- I have been, and I've been writing with Bob, working on his magazine for 20 something years now.

- And for five years I wrote about Women of the Old West, a column every month.

And now I write about Old West Saviors, (Jana clearing throat) many times that also includes women.

So yeah, we've been kind of joined at the hip for a long time here.

Partners all the way.

I say, I'm always dancing with a guy who brung me.

- Yeah, "True West Magazine" brung you, huh?

- That's exactly right.

- All right, let's get to some of these women.

I wanna start with Charlotte Hall because the headline for Charlotte Hall, Bob, we'll start with you on Charlotte Hall.

She pulled a gun on Grover Cleveland?

- [Bob] Well, you gave away the punchline.

(all laughing) Thank you very much.

- [Jana] That is the - - [Ted] That's my job is to stomp on every punchline that comes down the block.

(all laughing) - No, Jana and I absolutely love Charlotte Hall, and Jana had a fabulous narrative on how she did everything.

And I found, I seem to remember that there was this incident where she pulled a gun on a ferryman, you know, on a ferry boat or something.

And so I called Charlotte Hall and I said, is this true?

Jana didn't think it was true, and it sounded so ridiculous, And the person there came back and said, yes, she was in outside of Tuba City, 1911.

- [Ted] Yes.

- And she was doing research there for a book, And a runner, came up from Tuba City and told her that her mother was dying in Prescott.

And so the closest railhead was in Winslow.

And so she told her packer, it was Navajo.

We're going right now to the railhead.

It started a storm, they're in a canyon.

And he says, we can't go any further, we gotta go back.

And she pulls a gun on Grover Cleveland.

That's really his name.

(all laughs) - That was his name- - It says, we're going, they made it to Winslow and she made it to Prescott.

And I love that.

- [Ted] That's a great story.

- Yeah, I gotta say.

- And in many ways.

All right, Jana, Jennie Rogers.

- [Jana] That's also Bob's.

- Is that Bob's?

Okay, Bob's.

This is Denver, right?

- Yes.

All you need to know about Jennie Rogers is, and here my criteria was slightly different than Jana's, but gutsy, clever, endearing, maybe beautiful.

And by beautiful, I mean, Calamity Jane's not beautiful, but her quote is, leave me alone, please.

So I can go to hell by my own route.

(Ted laughs) End of quote.

That is one of the most beautiful things a woman's ever said - [Ted] Yes.

- Okay, second, a close second is Jennie Rogers.

She's a soiled dove in Denver, you need to know that.

She shot her boyfriend.

She caught him in bed, and she told the police, and this is a quote, I shot him because I love him.

Damn him.

(all laughing) - I mean, you can't make that stuff stuff up.

- [Bob] You cannot.

- Okay, so that's Jennie Rogers, a Denver borough.

All right.

We got to Big Nose Kate.

Can you do Big Nose Kate or?

- No.

Let him do Big- - Our Big Nose Kate.

- Come on, I'm hogging everything.

No.

- All the bad girls are his girls.

All the good girls are my girls.

- All right, well, we got a couple of good girls here.

We got at least one, really.

All right, wait who?

What?

Big no what?

- Big Nose Kate, Ken Elder was Doc Holliday's girlfriend.

And a lot of historians argue about, we argue about, we get out in the weeds, man, you know, when we're arguing about this stuff.

And a lot of the historians say, "She didn't really have a big nose, you know?"

Well, okay.

Alright.

And there's no contemporary reference to her in any newspaper with that moniker until 1896, when Wyatt Earp is interviewed in the San Francisco examiner.

And he calls her Big Nose Kate.

She was living in the Prescott Pioneer Home at the time.

And she was livid.

"I never went by that name."

She said, now there was other names.

The Santa Fe paper called her a tidbit, okay?

(Bob laughs) - [Ted] I don't like that.

- Oh, I can't talk about that.

But anyway, she, here's the punchline.

- [Jana] Okay.

- She's got a big nose, okay?

(all laughing) - She's got a schnauzer in another way.

- See, I wanted women that had more than a big nose.

So we had some conflicts here writing this book about which women we were gonna look at.

And you can imagine the incredible array of women that we had to choose from, and choosing some from each of the categories.

- [Ted] Right, right.

But now an Apache warrior, named Lozen?

- Yes.

Lozen, right.

- Now that's yours.

- That's mine.

(laughs) - Yeah.

- Lozen was the Joan of Arc of the Apaches.

And she was a crucial character in the Apache War, which went on for 20 years here in Arizona.

You know, the Indian Wars, in fact, the longest war in the history of the country, longer than any of our world wars or anything.

They spent more time fighting the Apaches here than they did anything else.

But Lozen was a shaman and a psychic and a healer.

But most importantly, she was a warrior.

She was as much a warrior and as important to that fight as was Geronimo or Cochise or her brother Victorio, who was the chief of the Tribe then.

So she's this phenomenal woman who ends up getting exiled with Geronimo, dies in the Oklahoma in one of the detainment camps.

But is this phenomenally important, historical Native American woman.

- How do you research?

So we've got a minute or so left here, so I got to be quick.

How do you research these people?

- You find books, you look on the internet, you go through libraries, you find obscure little things.

I buy these books on women of the Old West, everywhere we go.

So I can find little tiny tidbits here and there.

And it's those shards of things you find.

It's like pieces of pottery.

- [Bob] Yes.

- You find a piece pot...

When you find a piece of information, and that builds on the story.

- And last question, Bob.

How do you draw some of these folks?

'Cause there can't be a lot of photographs of 'em, for goodness sakes.

- Well there's a lot of photographs, but I pride myself on trying to making it as accurate as I can.

If they wore a kind of address, I want to go there.

If she's Apache, I want to go with whatever the squad dress is or the camp dress, they call it, I'm sorry.

And so I try to make it accurate.

- Well, congratulations on this book.

- Thanks.

- It's very entertaining.

I mean, with these kinds of books, you learn something all the time.

- I hope so.

There's over a hundred women in this book.

- Well, congrats.

"Hell Raisers and Trailblazers", with Bob Boze Bell, Jana Bommersbach.

Always a pleasure.

- Fantastic.

Thank you, Ted.

- Good to see you, Bob.

- Up next author and journalist, Laurie Notaro takes a humorous look at the messiness in mayhem of middle age.

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- I was so excited when I learned that I was gonna be the next moderator of Washington Week.

I was incredibly lucky to be mentored by Gwen Eiffel.

And what that gave to me was this confidence that I could be my full self and that I was deserving in whatever spaces I was in.

Welcome to Washington Week.

I also feel this great joy in taking the helm of Washington Week, knowing that I can mold it and make it my own, but also make sure that it is still within the legacy and the tradition that made it so great for all of these years.

- For most people, getting older and navigating midlife, comes with some challenges, but a little humor can go a long way and making those transitions bearable.

Author and humorous Laurie Notaro's new book titled, "Excuse Me, While I Disappear: Tales of Midlife Mayhem" is a collection of essays that finds the humor in aging.

We recently welcomed New York Times best selling author and onetime Arizonan Laurie Notaro to Arizona Horizon.

How you doing?

- I am so happy you just admitted that.

- That I was your an old friend?

Yeah.

- We're old, old friends.

- We'll strike it.

We'll edit that out.

(Laurie laughs) So you're getting up there, huh?

- [Laurie] Shut up.

(laughs) You're no spring chicken anymore.

- You and me both.

- [Ted] Yeah.

- You and me both.

We're both really old chicken coop.

- When did you know, when did you realize that?

(drawls) - One of the... Yeah, when people started calling me ma'am at the grocery store.

Yeah.

I guess that would probably...

But that happened a long time ago and I was just like, well, when you're 20, everybody looks old.

But then I started realizing that I couldn't get outta bed without making a noise from some place or a grunt or if I was on the floor for a while, I'd have to roll around until I found a piece of furniture heavy enough that I could lean on and get up off.

- It is what happens.

We all grow older, apparently except for Dorian Gray, but we all know what happened to him.

Are you different now than the younger Laurie?

- I think I'm amplified now, what should scare you.

Which should scare you.

Because now that I'm older and I've realized that I have disappeared to most of the people on the planet, at first that was really daunting and very disappointing.

But then I realized it was a superpower.

The total superpower.

I can get away with so much more now than I did when I was 27.

Like, no cop is gonna like arrest me really (Ted laughs) for causing a scene in the bank.

- [Ted] Right.

- Right?

No, cause I'm just a harmless old woman.

But like 30 years ago, yeah, I'd have to get bail.

- But, okay.

So you've taken advantage obviously, and you're abusing the privilege, however, but are you a different Laurie?

I mean we can look back on your older books and find out what that old Laurie was all about.

Is that the same Laurie here?

- Oh, completely.

Completely.

In fact, yeah, I'm just more of her.

- [Ted] Yes.

- And I'm freer.

There's a freedom with getting older that no one really tells you about.

You have, you just don't care anymore.

And I'm not sure if that comes with just age and wisdom or just the pain in your body.

(both laughs) It's so intense that you don't care what you say to people anymore.

It could be either or.

But I have realized that in this book, I really, and I had to tell my mom, I'm just like, you gotta really watch this book Ma, 'cause I'm full force.

I am on fire in this book 'cause I don't care anymore.

- Well, and when did you decide, you were gonna write about this?

- Well, it was...

It had been five years since I wrote the last book.

And I'd been working at the University of Oregon with a full time study job, thinking I was never gonna go back to publishing.

My last book had completely failed and you just don't get a deal after that.

But I had enough stuff.

Like I did a reading in New Jersey and a lady died during it.

And then I almost bled out on a cake plate after I severed an artery.

So those kinds of things just started happening.

I was like, this is book stuff, let's see how it goes.

- [Ted] Yeah, yeah.

Whacky- - So I took it to some agents that I trusted and you know what they said?

No one wants to read about middle aged women.

I think you know me well enough to know that if you want to light the fire under any part of me say no.

- But it would seem like yes, for a regular author or for, you know, it's an instruction book or some self-help book maybe possibly.

But you come at it from such a different angle.

I would...

This book is full of material.

I mean, goodness gracious.

- Yeah, you fall down more when you're old than you do when you're drunk.

- [Ted] Yes.

- Who knows?

- [Ted] Yes.

Who knew that?

When you wrote this book, and I love the, you give a lot of credit to your mom, anonymously.

- [Laurie] Anonymously.

- Anonymously.

Yeah.

- [Laurie] Who doesn't wanna know?

Yeah.

- Are you your mom?

(Laurie laughs) - Probably, probably.

Although I'm not addicted to Effrine.

But aside from that, I think probably, yeah.

- Are you smarter now or are you just more experienced?

- I think that comes hand in hand.

You become smarter the more experiences you have.

And like I say, I learn something every day.

So even though I have people who are my nephew's age, thinking I'm just the dumb old lady.

Like I've had, like, I'm really bad at math, so I'm gonna say I've had like 40 million more days on earth than you do.

So I know 40 million more things.

- [Ted] Yeah.

Yeah.

- So I'm not as dumb as you think I am.

You could really benefit from my experience.

- But when you see people that way and they react that way, you think, did the young Laurie Notaro act that way toward people who are now at the age of the current Laurie Notaro?

- She did.

- Did she?

- She was pretty awful.

(both laughs) She was pretty awful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I apologize to my grandparents.

They're no longer with us, but for having a rather skewed and naive vision of the world.

- Was this an easier book to write than your previous books?

- Yeah, 'cause I didn't care.

I just did not care.

I didn't.

I don't care what people think about this book.

I don't care.

- Isn't that something?

- Yeah.

I got a review on Amazon today, two stars.

Oh, Laurie, how you've changed and she pulled out all of her political correct words.

You're punching down, you're not lifting up and you be better you.

And I just wanna say, you know what, Wendi with an I in Chicago?

(Ted laughs) I'm exactly who I am and I'm sorry that I'm not who you think I am, but I'm me and I am awesome.

- You know, "Excuse Me While I Disappear."

First of all, the title means what?

You're older and you think, as you've said, you can get away with murder.

- Yeah.

People don't see you.

- [Ted] Yeah.

- I fully believe that I can walk outta Costco with a deep freeze, just waving like an old Safeway receipt.

Totally.

I could totally do that.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Talk about...

I'm fascinated by writers, the creative process.

What is the writing day like for Laurie Notaro?

I mean, do you wait around, do you flit around waiting for the muse or do you sit yourself down in front of a keyboard and go to work?

- There is no muse.

There is no muse.

There is just, you have to sit down and go to work just like anybody else.

And that is a thing.

People always ask me, "What if you're not feeling it?"

I'm just like, well, I could, guess, I could tell my mortgage company, "Hey Rocket Mortgage, I'm not feeling like paying you today."

"It just was a thing."

It's just like any other job.

I have no tolerance or patience for people who just freeze up at the computer.

Just get to work.

- But isn't it amazing how when you do get to work, there's the muse saying where have you been?

- Well, the muse is, yeah.

It's in my history.

- [Ted] Yes.

- I guess I am making my own muse.

That's disgusting.

- You're old enough for that too, apparently.

(Laurie laughs) So but did you take notes all day?

Like, I mean, there's so many stories, so many anecdotes in you.

Do you take notes and I put 'em on little pieces of paper.

- Yes.

It's in my iPhone.

It used to be in my purse on tiny little beer tabs.

But now it's on my iPhone with... Yeah.

A lady just died at my reading in New Jersey.

- Yeah, I know.

Yeah, and you cut yourself and you blow it on a cake plate.

Yeah, I just- - [Laurie] Yeah, it was awful.

- Yeah.

- [Laurie] My husband cried.

- Yeah, I bet he did.

Your husband's all over this book too, by the way.

- He is.

Poor guy.

- Yeah, I was gonna say he's a- - Hey, we, our name is both on that mortgage.

(both laughs) - Do you enjoy going back as the older Laurie?

Do you read your older stuff?

- Yeah, I mean, of course.

Sometimes when I'm at readings people say, "Oh read something from idiot girls."

Which by the way, Kris Mayes is in, who I surely shouldn't tell.

- [Ted] Oh really?

- People already voted.

Yeah, they've already voted.

But she was one of the idiot girls and I worked at ASU, I worked with her.

I'd love to go back and read those things and sometimes I cringe, but sometimes I forget a punchline, and I'm like, oh my God.

- [Ted] Yes.

- She was so awesome.

Good for you, Laurie 1989.

- Well good, I'm glad 'cause some people can't stand to read their older stuff, especially- - There's some of it that's really bad.

There's some of it that's really bad.

But there's other stuff too that I'm just like, oh my God, that's hilarious.

- Well, congratulations on this book.

It's, "Excuse Me While I Disappear."

It's wonderful.

It's a little short.

A little short.

- It's a little short.

- It's not standard styled book.

- And yours came with a bent cover on it, so please do go leave a two star review for me on Amazon about the size of the book and the bentness.

- [Ted] Yeah.

Ted from Phoenix.

- Because I did that.

- Yeah.

Okay, I'll do that.

And by the way, I love the last essay, I'm just gonna say this, I'm not gonna give anything away.

The last essay.

That's not fair.

What you did on the last essay.

- I didn't place it there.

That was my editor.

And every good relationship comes to an end because- - Yeah.

- Nature's just nature.

- That really got to me, the whole book.

It's a great job.

Laurie Notaro.

Always a pleasure.

(upbeat music) (tribal music) A new children's book brings a joy of reading to kids and also helps fund early childhood literacy programs.

The book is titled, "This Little Farmer Went To Market" and it follows a journey our food makes from farm to market.

The book is published by the nonprofit Southwest Human Development and with every book purchased, a book is donated to a family in need.

Guest host Richard Ruelas learned more from Jake Adams of Southwest Development and the book's author, B.G.

Hennessy.

- Thank you both for joining us.

Jake, tell us why you guys decided not only to give away books, but publish your own.

- Absolutely.

Southwest Human Development is Arizona and probably, the nation's largest early childhood nonprofits.

So we're focused on young kids age zero to five.

We have over 40 programs.

And one of the things that we incorporate into every one of those programs is early literacy.

And so we struggle to find high quality books at a cost that's affordable.

So we thought, hey, we've got a lot of experts in early childhood and early literacy.

What if we published our own book?

We didn't realize how challenging it was, but we held a children's manuscript competition.

And so B.G.

had the manuscript that was selected And so B.G.

had the manuscript that was selected for the second round.

The first one was a book called Up, Up, Up by Phoebe Fox, a local author as well.

And we acted as the publisher.

We had whole group of people who were judges, including the unfortunately late founder of Little Free Library.

We had a writer from Mr. Rogers neighborhood, called a cat competition person who was on the judging panel for that.

The children's book Buyer for Changing Hands Bookstore, favorite local bookstore here in Arizona.

- And tell us the inspiration for your book.

How many have you have you done?

- This is actually my 40th book that I published and the first book in this book were the only two that I submitted, blind, meaning nobody knew who the author was.

So it's kind of a nice bookend there.

I love combining rhymes that children know, 'cause a lot of times, this is obviously take of this little piggy went to market, children, most children like food, although children can be picky.

- And this involves vegetables.

- It's well fruit and vegetables here.

- Okay.

- So, but I wanted to sort of tie the idea of food with where it comes from.

I was telling Jake earlier, I was at a school visit and we were talking, you know, the kids had their lunches and I said, well, where do you think that banana came from?

And this young boy said, came from the grocery store.

And I said, well, it didn't grow there.

And he says, yes it did.

Why do you think it's called the Grocery Store?

And it's that kind of thing that you, as an author, you kind of file away some of these comments.

You have to really listen.

Don't assume that kids know everything or that you know everything.

So I combined that with this rhyme.

I like to also think about my reader and there's a rhyme to this book and I wanna make it fun for the reader and fun for the child as well.

- There has to be something gratifying in knowing that there's a number of children whose first book or one of their first treasured books is gonna be your words.

- Well, it is, but you often or hardly find out, if it is.

- Well, it is, but you often or hardly find out, if it is.

I've had...

I do write as well a lot of the Corduroy Bear books and they are just, there are generations now of people who will say, oh my goodness, you worked on that book.

So, but you never know really what book will really resonate So, but you never know really what book will really resonate with a child.

And you just hope that your words, and it's also the illustrations and it's, as Jake will tell you, it is not easy to put together a book that looks as good as this.

- [Richard] Yeah.

- Physically, it's a lot of work by a lot of people.

- Tell us how the behind the scenes charity works.

I buy a book and what happens on the other end.

- Yeah.

So when you buy a copy of the book, the book costs 17.99.

You can buy it on our website, swhd.org, Changing Hands bookstore and also on Amazon.

And what we do is we take all of the profits from that and purchase books for children.

We probably actually buy more than two or more than one extra book.

But we promise you that we'll buy one, give one.

But it's a really good project and we give out over 120,000 brand new children's books per year at Southwest Human Development.

And the money that you pay for the book helps to do that.

So it makes a great holiday gift, perfect gift for a new parent.

- [Richard] Right.

- Or for a birthday.

- It would wrap easily if you're looking for a- (all laughing) - I was so excited when I learned that I was gonna be the next moderator of Washington Week.

I was incredibly lucky to be mentored by Gwen Eiffel.

And what that gave to me was this confidence that I could be my full self and that I was deserving in whatever spaces I was in.

Welcome to Washington Week.

I also feel this great joy in taking the helm of Washington Week, knowing that I can mold it and make it my own, but also make sure that it is still within the legacy and the tradition that made it so great for all of these years.

- And that is it for now.

I'm Ted Simons.

Thank you so much for joining us on the special edition of Arizona Horizon.

You have a great evening.

(upbeat music)