Picture a plus sized witch, a handsome stranger, and a village facing impending doom.

What could possibly go wrong or right?

It's "Enchanted to Meet You", a new witchy rom-com from "New York Times" bestselling author Meg Cabot.

Meg Cabot is here.

The prolific Meg Cabot has written over 80 books for both adults and teens.

More than 25 million copies sold worldwide and that includes numerous "New York Times" number one bestsellers.

And did I mention "The Princess Diaries" series?

Not only bestsellers but also two hit Disney films with a third on the way.

Her latest book is "Enchanted to Meet You".

Meg, welcome.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

This is great.

All right, gotta start with "Enchanted to Meet You" 'cause I'm gonna move to West Harbor.

Now granted, I know it's fictional but it is such a cool place.

It is a town full of witches.

And because it is Meg Cabot, even the non witches are these quirky characters.

So set the stage with these characters if you would.

Thank you.

Number one, I would like to move there too.

It is a place, it's actually in Connecticut.

It's fictional, but it's kind of like my dream town where magic is accepted and anybody can perform magic if they have the right intention.

The only problem is that there is a group that believes that magic can only be inherited.

So there's kind of some snobbery, 'cause it's New England, kind of the capital of witches, and there's some misunderstandings maybe about how magic works.

And the heroine is not descended from witches but she still wants to perform magic, and she kind of runs a foul of the group that says that you have to be an inherited, you have to have an inherited ancestor in order to be a witch.

[Ann] Inherited ancestor.

Yeah.

All right, so let's talk about Jessica Gold.

She is the heroine of the book.

She runs a lady's boutique.

She is smart, she is funny.

As I said in the beginning, she is plus sized, thank you.

She's not the teeny weeny little girl.

And I'm hooked from the very first page.

We're meeting Jessica when she's nine years old, and if you would do me the honors of setting the stage and reading that first page for us.

Absolutely, thank you.

I would love to.

It gives such a good background as to who Jessica is and where we're going.

Yeah, the beginning of the book is always really hard 'cause you wanna get everything in but then also have it be interesting.

So hopefully I've succeeded.

Anyway, here it is.

Your mother is magic.

That's what my father told me one day when I was nine and had been sent to my room for being disrespectful.

I don't remember now exactly what I'd said.

Nine is the age when trouble can start for so many girls.

But it's not necessarily our fault.

We're best friends with someone one minute, then by recess we've been replaced.

Usually we have no idea why.

Meanwhile our baby teeth are being pushed out of our head by our adult teeth, yet we're still young enough to believe in unicorns.

It's a dizzying, disquieting time.

But nine is also one of the most powerful numbers in the world of witchcraft.

It represents selflessness, humanitarianism, compassion, and generosity.

All the qualities a good witch aspires to possess.

Of course, I didn't know any of this when I was nine.

All I knew then was that I was miserable and I was taking it out on the person who meant more to me than anyone else in the world, my mother.

There you go.

Now I learned about the number nine.

It's important.

Learned where Jessica is when she's nine years old.

Something you said right before you read that, that in the first page, that's how critical the first page is.

Is that the hardest to write, honestly?

100%.

I have talked to so many authors who can start in the middle of the book.

They can start the second chapter but that first chapter is really difficult and can sometimes take years just to get that perfect kind.

And I'm not saying that's perfect, but it was the best that I could come up with and it took a long time.

So yeah, a lot of times the very first page is the last thing you write because it's so hard to get that tone right.

And you wanna suck the reader in right away but you also don't wanna be too over the top.

Love the book.

I love witchcraft stories anyway.

And this is not your first witch book.

You did a book called "Jinx", which was a young adult book, correct?

Yes, yes.

I did that a few years ago and that is actually, my mother's nickname is Jinx.

My mother was born on Friday the 13th, going back to mothers, and everybody called her Jinx.

And so I thought that would be really fun but actually have her turn out to be a witch 'cause sadly my mom is not a witch.

[Ann] Aww.

Turned out, yeah.

I was always hopeful but no.

Well for readers who read "Jinx", and that was the young adult book.

Let me just point out this is the adult version.

It is very adult, yeah.

This is not a kid's book.

No, it's definitely for adult readers.

Although it does kind of look back at Jessica's teenage years.

There's actually some diary entries 'cause it's kind of what I do, teen diaries, so that we get to see a glimpse of how she started doing her witchcraft.

Do you have a family story about witchcraft?

I do.

Or did I just make that up?

No, I do.

It actually does kind of go back to my mom Jinx who was born on Friday the 13th.

And I always thought she was a witch.

And of course she was like, honey I am magic, of course like all mothers, but I can't do magic.

But then I was talking to one of my aunts on my father's side of the family and she said, well you actually do have a relative who was accused of witchcraft back in the old country in Italy.

So yeah, I did some research on that and she apparently was very good at removing warts with this piece of cloth.

Freaked my dad out 'cause she did that to him when he was a little kid.

And the family lore is that she escaped to America and had a lovely little cottage and a little dog and just did her magic here.

And I thought, oh that's so great.

All right.

I still haven't been able to do any magic.

I was gonna ask if you had.

I was gonna ask if you would try to cast a spell.

Of course.

Oh my gosh, when I was a kid, every time it looked like it was gonna snow, I would do a spell to have a snow day.

It never worked.

All right, I'm not gonna spoil the read for anyone but Jessica, she leaves her nine-year-old era.

She becomes a teenager and she does try to cast a spell, a love spell, but it goes wrong.

Yeah.

Tell us as much as you can about that.

Well the thing about love spells, and I'm gonna admit that I tried to cast a few too as a young teenage would be witch, is that you're performing it usually without consent.

So you're trying to make somebody fall in love with you or whoever.

But what about that person?

That person has agency.

And so that's actually what we would call maybe not the best intended spell.

So they say what you put out into the universe comes back at you times three.

And that's actually what happens to Jessica is she puts maybe some bad vibes out there because she's trying to get this guy to fall in love with her and he has apparently no say in the matter because she is a witch and it actually works.

And so then yeah, nothing, I don't wanna say what happens but it's.

We're not gonna say what happens.

Not good for Jessica.

But let's just remember that this is an entire town with a whole lot of witches.

Yeah, it's accepted.

Most of the people are are normies but there are some witches and nobody thinks that it's too weird for, especially since it is New England.

And as I found out witchcraft actually in America, the first person to be accused of witchcraft and executed for it was in colonial Connecticut.

Which I always thought it was Salem.

But 50 years later is when Salem happened.

Connecticut was where it all started in the 1640s or something, yeah.

Witchcraft claim to fame.

I know, right?

So they need to kind of embrace that and become as popular as Salem is at Halloween with all the witch tourism.

I love that idea.

So Jess grows up and since it is a romance novel and it is a romance novel, there is a love interest.

Who is Derek?

This is a mysterious guy.

Yeah, Jessica is at her job.

She owns a little clothing boutique, and a really tall, handsome stranger walks in, which doesn't happen in women's clothing boutiques that often.

I've been to many of them.

And he's like, I need to talk to you.

And it's not about clothes, it's about the fact that her town is in jeopardy and she is the chosen one.

She is the person who's going to have to help save the town, which is astonishing to her 'cause she's not really that great at magic and she's not really sure if this guy is legit.

But it's always kind of been a fantasy of mine when I've worked day jobs that maybe a tall handsome stranger would come in and say, oh my gosh, you are the chosen one.

The whole world, everything is depending on you.

That never happened.

Maybe we're not going to enough women's boutiques.

I know, I think we need to maybe do more shopping.

Answer to everything.

When you're writing, is the character what you think of first in this particular, in this book?

No, the plot, the having somebody come in and tell you that.

But then you wanna think, I always wanna think who would be the most interesting character for this to happen to?

And it, in this case, it's somebody who is not that great at magic and doesn't really have that great self-esteem.

She has a great self-esteem for a lot of things, but not for her magic.

So that kind of goes back to "The Princess Diaries" when I was thinking, okay, I want somebody to find out that she's a princess.

Who would be the greatest character to happen?

And it would be somebody who doesn't wanna be a princess 'cause everybody, I wanna be a princess.

And I think you do too.

I think everybody would love to find that out.

All little girls.

Yeah, and boys too.

That's the truth.

I mean I think it's a universal kind of idea that somewhere in your past there is somebody very special and maybe you've inherited that specialness from them.

It's just kind of a human, I think that's why ancestry's so popular now.

Well how many little girls grow up thinking, okay I must be adopted 'cause I'm not like my mother.

I'm sure my real mother is a princess.

Exactly.

And some cases we were told that, 'cause my father when I would bring home my grades would be like, how can you be related to me?

He's a college professor and I was only good at writing, so it was a sad time growing up in my house.

So I kind of, that idea was implanted in my head that maybe I was adopted, but no.

Did your father teach writing?

No, he taught quantitative business analysis, which was never something that I was going to even understand what it is.

And I always got Fs in all my math classes, but I like to think it's 'cause I was hyper-focused on writing fun stories instead.

Every chapter in this book begins with a little bit of magic.

And it's from something you call Goodie Fletcher's Book of Useful Household Tips.

Is that a Meg Cabot creation?

It is, it's not a real book.

Every single spell though that's in the book is taken from an actual spell book from the 1600s.

So it's accurate in the period, it's from Northern European.

And I pretty much tried to stick to kind of the spells that my great-grandmother would've used back in Italy.

And there really were spell books that, a lot of them written by men, which is interesting, that had kind of exactly what's in my book, but mine is kind of made up version of it.

But my editor did ask me when she was reading it, she's like, do these spells work?

And I was like, well if you believe, it'll work.

If you believe hard enough.

Exactly.

"Enchanted to Meet You" is, it is so delightful.

And let's think about this.

The girls that devoured your "Princess Diary" books 20 some years ago, they're reading this now, their children are reading "Princess Diary" books.

This is, I would think you would be so honored that your writing has had this effect on a generation of women.

Yeah, I am.

I actually am getting wedding invitations now from readers and baby shower announcements.

I feel like a grandmother, even though I don't have kids myself, I'm like, oh my gosh, look what we did kind of with these books.

So it is a great feeling.

It's really, really great.

And I am assuming, well, I mean I know that the feelings and the issues and the things that you tackle are universal.

It doesn't stop because a book was written in the eighties or the nineties.

It is as relevant today.

Yeah, absolutely.

I think that the, what I always say is that the technology changes, but the problems stay the same.

So when I was growing up, we didn't have social media, but people wrote stuff on the bathroom walls that was really hurtful.

And everybody, at least in your social circle, saw that.

So it's not the same in any way, but it's kind of, the feelings are definitely the same.

Does it ever irritate you or just, I don't know, get under your skin at all that sometimes romance novels and rom-coms are dismissed as less than?

Oh yes.

Oh my gosh, yeah.

I think that so many things that women in particular love are considered less than, they're not as important.

I mean if you look at sports, female athletes don't even get paid anywhere near what the male athletes.

And people will say, well it's 'cause they don't bring in the advertising income.

But why is that?

It's 'cause they haven't been promoted enough.

And of course every author will tell you, if I were just promoted more then my books would sell as much as whoever.

But no, it's definitely true.

The thing that I have found though is that people who denigrate a lot of those things, particularly romance, have never read one.

Or if they have, and there's not, not every romance is great, just like not every mystery is great, sci-fi book, whatever.

You have to find the good ones.

But it seems like a lot of it's based on ignorance and obviously snobbery a little bit.

But I feel like universally love is the most important thing.

I mean, if you read any book, there's gonna be a romance or at least somebody who was conceived hopefully because of a romance.

So it's in every single book and all media.

So I don't understand it.

I don't either.

I honestly don't.

You can be a bestseller and still the remarks.

Yeah.

But it's great.

You also write, this is the adult version as we said, you write for teens, you write for young adults.

That is such a difficult age to navigate because of the pressure and the anxiety.

And you have found the sweet spot.

Your young adult books hit the mark.

Now I am sure that you have been told this numerous times that a young teen will read one of your books and just tell you thank you.

That was the lifeline I needed.

It's like a best friend.

What do they say?

That is.

That's one of the greatest parts of writing for younger readers is that you hear from readers who loved, loved and they fully committed to this story because they haven't experienced that much and it really means something to them.

So yeah, I hear that a lot.

You don't hear it so much from the adult readers because they are busy and they don't really write that many letters.

But yeah, I get pages and pages of actual handwritten letters, but in addition also a lot of posts.

And I love it, it's just so great.

It's so gratifying and it's nice to know that you've touched someone.

I think gratifying is the exact right description.

Now at the same time that you're hitting this mark and people are loving what you are writing because you were speaking to them, some of these books are being challenged for what is appropriate content.

I think we need to spend some time on that.

How does that make you feel as an author?

It's really frustrating.

I have a couple books that have been banned in multiple states in the school systems.

And in every case, for my books in particular, it's because they are about women or girls becoming empowered over their own bodies.

Mentioning, even the mention of birth control, which I grew up thinking, okay, when we need to talk about birth control freely because it's really important for health, but also it should be just normalized.

So why is it such a taboo subject?

Well, there are people out there who don't want anything about that mentioned in books that are specifically targeted for the group that needs it most.

And I'm not gonna get into the statistics of what's happening in Florida as far as sexual health, but it is not good and exactly what people are doing, keeping this material from, which is fun to read.

So it's actually something that kids and young people will want to read, is doing the exact opposite of what they maybe seem to intend, which is keeping kids safe.

It's not keeping them safe by keeping them from getting information.

It's just such a weird concept to me.

I've spoken with authors before who have said, being on the list where my books are banned is sort of a badge of honor.

It is, except that when you think about it, it's keeping information from getting to somebody who might need it or who would just want it.

And it's not fair.

And I remember being 16 and having full access to all sorts of material and it really helped open my mind.

And I believe made me possibly a best selling author.

It might be why.

Because there was nothing that was off limits.

And that helps you to believe there's nothing off limits to you as somebody who's gonna accomplish things.

So it's really unfortunate.

In Key West where I live, they are actually now having problems getting the books banned because it's Key West.

So they're stealing 'em, they're just blatantly stealing them even from the public library, which is upsetting.

So our sheriff is on it.

He's got cameras.

Don't steal from the public library.

Don't steal.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you have to inflict those beliefs on everybody else.

People have a choice.

I wanna look at your start.

'Cause way before 80 books, way before "The Princess Diaries" became what it is, you worked in a college dorm.

Correct?

And I think I remember you telling me long ago that you started writing the manuscript in your spare time.

Well, okay, yes.

I worked in a college dorm in the office and college kids don't get up really very early.

So I would have my whole morning free to write.

That's what I did, I would work on books.

And all the kids knew about it and they would come in and be like, I don't wanna disturb you during this important scene in your book.

They were great.

So yeah, I was at NYU and it was a really great way to get started, but also kind of, you're getting paid to write, but actually not really because it's your job.

But they were very nice about it.

I would imagine also a lot of information that you could have later translated to a book.

100%, so much, I think, especially of "The Princess Diaries" is just from kids that would walk in and say the funniest things.

But yeah, later I actually wrote a mystery series about a young woman who has my job in a dorm and in the dorm that I wrote about, there were many murders.

There were never any murders when I was actually working there.

But it is great.

It's just so fun to be around that age group.

And they're just hilarious.

How long did it take from when you started that manuscript from "The Princess Diaries" to it getting published?

Oh my gosh, so many years.

It took years because it was kind of right at the beginning of this new craze for YA.

But at that time there was a belief in a lot of publishing houses that entertainment for kids need to have a very harsh lesson.

Somebody needed to die often.

And so we had a hard time convincing people that this was gonna be something that was great for kids to read.

It was so, like you said, it's great for kids to read.

It was rejected, I wanna say, by every publishing house in New York City at least.

And it had actually been optioned to be a movie before it was ever published.

And so I thought, oh, well, okay, so now it's gonna be a movie directed by Gary Marshall and Disney and somebody will wanna publish it now.

They still were like, no.

And then finally a young editor who'd just been hired took it on and was willing.

The moral of this story is patience.

Well, yeah, I always say when I do talks to kids about being a writer is, and adults too, don't give up.

Because if I had given up after the, I don't know, 400th rejection, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you right now.

Literally how many rejections?

I actually had so many rejections, not just from that book, but all the books I was writing, that I had a giant US mail bag filled with rejections.

And I used to take that with me to schools to talk to kids about what you can expect if you're a writer.

And I would take the bag very dramatically and slam it onto a desk and say, you can get these.

And I'd pass the rejections out.

And actually teachers asked me to stop doing that because it was making the kids feel so bad.

They're like, oh no.

But I think it's really important.

Rejection is great.

You learn from it and you certainly learn not to quit.

You can't.

I always, when I hear from writers who just got published right away, I'm like, how did that happen?

Not my experience.

Meg, let's switch it up a little bit.

When did you know you wanted to be a writer and do you remember the very first thing that you wrote?

I do.

I wrote a book when I was seven called "Benny the Puppy".

And it was about a little puppy, obviously who, I guess he loses his family in a freak prairie tornado.

And so he is an orphan and then later he finds a family, which is a great theme ultimately.

It's still available for publication if anyone wants it, or the film rights.

But I knew then that I wanted to be a writer and I told my parents and they were in despair.

They're like, you're never gonna make any money to support yourself.

So my mom made me take typing in high school so that I could, they used to have typing classes, so I could be a secretary, and that's what I did at NYU.

I worked as an administrative assistant and I typed everything.

Meanwhile, I also typed my books.

I never gave up.

Typed your own manuscript.

As a kid, what were the kind of books that you gravitated to?

Oh wow.

I loved anything to do with animals.

I loved nonfiction, fiction, obviously "Black Beauty" was one of the first ones that I read.

Anything with horses.

And then gradually I started reading sci-fi because I really wanted to read about empowered women.

And there weren't a whole lot of stories at that time that featured girls who were out there, kind of like Princess Leia in "Star Wars" using their weapons, but also their mind.

But I found a lot of that in fantasy and genre fiction.

So that's really what I gravitated to and later was writing.

I have to admit, "Star Wars" fan fiction was a big thing for me and I was really bummed out when I found out I couldn't get it published at that time.

Because I didn't own the copyright.

So didn't let that stop me and ended up inventing my own kingdom and princess.

Yes, you did.

Is there a book, Meg, that made a real impact on you?

Perhaps something that really gave you peace?

I remember being a kid and finding reading really difficult.

I didn't understand why are people reading?

And I saw the movie, really young, "Fantastic Voyage", which is about people who get shrunk down and shot into a man's brain to perform surgery.

And I was in a library despairing and I found there was a book, "Fantastic Voyage" by Isaac Asimov and that was, I remember one of the first books I ever read.

And as I was reading it, I could picture what was happening in the movie.

And then that's when I realized, I go, that's how you read.

Like you picture in your head what's happening on the page.

And I just remember making that connection, and after that I could not stop reading.

But it does take something like that for a lot of young people to figure out how does reading work?

And that's what it did for me.

So whenever anybody says, I read the, I saw the movie of your books first and then I read the books and I'm like, good, because if it helped you.

And then a lot of them say, I can't stop reading now because that's what introduced reading to me.

And I love that I was able to do that for people.

Because this is a Meg Cabot book and because sometimes you just need a book that is going to make you feel good, I didn't know how this book would end.

But I did know that I was going to be happy reading this book and that's just lovely.

So thank you for being you.

Aw, thank you.

That is exactly what I wanna do when I set out to write something.

I wanna make people feel good and forget their own problems for a little while.

And maybe during the course of the book you might not feel so good 'cause some uncomfortable things happen to the characters, but that's life and that's, I think, super important.

So I love hearing that, thank you.

Oh listen, your books are magic.

They are.

The new book is "Enchanted to Meet You".

Meg, it has been just a delight to have you here and to talk to you.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's been a pleasure.

I'm Ann Bocock, please join me on the next "Between the Covers".