WILL HAWAII BECOME AN OPEN CARRY STATE?

AS EARLY AS NEXT MONTH THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WILL CONSIDER A CASE THAT HAS WIDE REACHING IMPLICATIONS, INCLUDING HERE IN HAWAII, ABOUT WHETHER STATES CAN DETERMINE WHO, OR IF, RESIDENTS CAN LEGALLY CARRY GUNS IN PUBLIC.

JOIN OUR CONVERSATION WITH EXPERTS AND ADVOCATES ON THIS ISSUE, NEXT ON INSIGHTS.

HAWAII RARELY IF EVER GRANTS CITIZENS IS CARRY GUNS IN PUBLIC.

VIOLATES SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION.

ISSUE U.S. SUPREME NEXT MONTH JUSTICES HEAR ARGUMENTS IN SIMILAR CASE.

WILL HAWAII BECOME OPEN CARRY STATE?

TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII START NOW.

ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII...I’M YUNJI DE NIES.

A PERMIT TO OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN HAWAII IS GRANTED ONLY IN “EXCEPTIONAL CASES.” BIG ISLAND RESIDENT GEORGE YOUNG APPLIED FOR A PERMIT TO CARRY A LOADED FIREARM IN PUBLIC WITH THE HAWAII COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT THREE SEPARATE TIMES AND WAS REJECTED EACH TIME.

HE FILED A LAWSUIT CLAIMING THE REJECTIONS VIOLATED HIS SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO “KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.” A THREE‑JUDGE PANEL OF THE NINTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS IN SAN FRANCISCO SIDED WITH YOUNG, BUT LATER THE FULL COURT SIDED WITH THE STATE AND UPHELD THE DENIAL.

NEXT MONTH, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WILL HEAR ARGUMENTS IN A SIMILAR CASE FROM NEW YORK WHERE GUN ADVOCATES ARE CHALLENGING THAT STATE’S GUN PERMITTING LAWS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL US OR CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS.

WE ALSO ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE CONVERSATION ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE.

AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

CHRIS MARVIN IS A FORMER ARMY BLACK HAWK HELICOPTER PILOT AND A COMBAT‑WOUNDED VETERAN.

HE LEADS THE VETERAN ENGAGEMENT STRATEGY FOR EVERYTOWN FOR GUN SAFETY, THE NATION’S LARGEST GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION ORGANIZATION.

HE ALSO SITS ON EVERYTOWN’S VETERAN ADVISORY COUNCIL.

FORMER MARINE, KAINOA KAKU IS THE OWNER OF MAKAALA FINANCIAL SERVICES.

ACTIVE IN THE HAWAII RIFLE ASSOCIATION KAKU JOINED THE HRA BOARD OF DIRECTORS IN 2016, AND SERVED AS VICE PRESIDENT OF HRA IN 2019.

HE CURRENTLY SERVES AS THE ASSOCATION’S PRESIDENT.

DIRECTOR OF THE LAW FIRM STARN, O’TOOLE, MARCUS, AND FISHER DOUG CHIN HAS SERVED AS BOTH THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE STATE OF HAWAII.

MR. CHIN HAS BEEN NAMED TO THE THE BEST LAWYERS IN AMERICA LIST AND HAS EXPERIENCE WITH SUPREME COURT CASES.

KEVIN O’GRADY IS AN ATTORNEY WITH EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE IN SECOND AMENDMENT AND FIREARM LITIGATION.

HE IS A MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN COUNCIL OF SECOND AMENDMENT LAWYERS AND A COMMAND JUDGE ADVOCATE IN THE U. S. ARMY RESERVE.

AVI SOIFER IS A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR AND WAS THE DEAN OF THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII RICHARDSON SCHOOL OF LAW FROM 2003 TO 2020.

SOIFER GRADUATED FROM YALE LAW SCHOOL AND SERVED AS DEAN OF BOSTON COLLEGE LAW SCHOOL BEFORE MOVING TO HAWAII.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE FOR THIS VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.

I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

TELL US ABOUT THE CASE THAT IS GOING TO BE BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT AND IMPLICATIONS RIGHT HERE AT HOME?

>> NEW YORK CASE IS QUITE SIMILAR TO THE SITUATION HERE.

ASSOCIATION AS IT HAPPEN.

NEW YORK RIFLE AND PISTOL ASSOCIATION.

WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO CARRY OUR GUNS OUTSIDE OUR HOME.

PEOPLE BELIEVE IN THEM AND WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT TARGET PRACTICE AND SO ON.

NOT ALLOWED TO DO IT.

NEW YORK HAS A WAY IN WHICH YOU ALLOW, IF YOU SHOW CAUSE.

AND WE HAVE SIMILAR SHOW PROPER CAUSE AS TO WHY YOU MIGHT WANT TO CARRY YOUR GONE OUT SIDE.

HELLER CASE, SUPREME COURT DECIDED IN 2008, WAS THE FIRST TIME SECOND AMENDMENT WON FOR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

IT WAS ABOUT DEFEND IN YOUR HOME.

THESE CASES AFTER 13 YEARS, FIRST ONES, NEW YORK CASE, FIRST ONE THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN BUT EVEN HELLER CASE LEFT OPEN, WE WILL HAVE SOME REGULATIONS LET'S SEE WHICH ONES ARE CONSTITUTIONAL.

>>Yunji: IF GUN ADVOCATES PREVAIL IN THIS CASE.

WHAT WILL THAT MEAN FOR US HERE IN HAWAII?

>> A LOT DEPENDS ON THE WHAT THE COURT SAYS.

THEY MIGHT SAY VERY LIMITED.

SHOW PROBABLE CAUSE.

THEY MIGHT SAY WE'RE NOT SO CONCERNED ABOUT DEFENSE OF YOURSELF OR YOU HAVE TO KEY FEND YOURSELF OUTSIDE YOUR HOME.

DEFEND YOURSELF OUTSIDE YOUR HOME.

DEPENDS HOW BROAD THEY NARROW.

GEORGE TRYING OUT FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS TO CHALLENGE THAT PERMIT TO GET A GUN OUTSIDE HIS HOME.

HE HAS WON AT FIRST, THEN 9TH CIRCUMSTANCE THE HAS GONE IN BANK AS IT'S CALLED.

LOST 7‑4 TWICE IN THE NINTH CIRCUIT.

EACH TIME, OUR JUDGE ON 9TH CIRCUMSTANCE THE PREDICTED, I KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

NINTH CIRCUIT DECIDED IN FAVOR OF GEORGE YOUNG.

CLIFTON WAS AGAINST.

SAID, THEY'RE GOING TO REVERSE THIS IN BANK.

AND THEY DID.

>>Yunji: WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THE CURRENT SITUATION HERE IN HAWAII?

AND THE CASE THAT IS NOW GOING BEFORE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE TONIGHT.

I APPRECIATE IT.

AS AVI SAID, HAWAII CASE AND THE NEW YORK CASE ARE SIMILAR.

MR. YOUNG ASKED FOR THE ABILITY TO CARRY OPENLY.

OR CONCEAL.

IT DIDN'T REALLY MATTER.

AND I THINK WHAT IS IMPORTANT AND THIS WAS JUST FILED TODAY, WHEN NEW YORK FILED A REPLY, PETITIONERS IN THE NEW YORK CASE, PROBLEM WITH HAWAII AND WITH NEW YORK, IS THAT THE STATES VIEW THE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT AS A PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY CERTAIN PEOPLE UNDER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES CAN CARRY IN CERTAIN WAYS WHEN THEY GET PERMISSION FROM SOMEBODY.

BUREAUCRATIC POLICE CHIEF.

I THINK THAT CORRECT AGAIN, WHAT DOES THE SUPREME COURT CAN GO TO TELL US?

SECOND AMENDMENT IS VERY MUCH IN ITS INFANCY.

AND JUSTICES NEED TO PROVIDE US WITH FRAMEWORK I THINK THERE IS I DON'T NEED TO TRY TO PROGNOSTICATE WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT THAT ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE WAY SOME OF THE COURTS OF APPEALS HAVE BEEN APPLYING THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

AND THIS WILL MAYBE GIVE THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE US A FRAMEWORK WITHIN WHICH TO APPLY CERTAIN LAWS.

AND I THINK THAT'S, JUST THE SHOW PRESUMES THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME ABILITY TO CARRY OUTSIDE.

IF YOU LOOK AT IT AS OTHER RIGHTS ARE TREATED, IT'S GOING TO BE A BROAD RIGHT.

BUT YES, SOME LEGISLATION THAT CAN OCCUR.

BUT IT'S GOING TO FLIP SCRIPT THE WAY STATES LIKE HAWAII LOOK AT IT.

WHICH IS THAT CAN YOU ALMOST NEVER HAVE THE ABILITY TO CARRY CARRY OUTSIDE YOUR HOME UNLESS SOMEBODY SHOULD GIVE YOU WHAT IS COMPLETELY DISCRETIONARY PERMIT.

THAT, I THINK GOING TO CHANGE.

>>Yunji: WHAT YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

IF YOU COULD ELABORATE ON THESE EXCEPTIONAL CASES, WHO DOES GET TO CARRY A GUN IN HAWAII RIGHT NOW?

>> SURE.

WITHOUT QUESTION, HAWAII HAS SOME OF THOSE STRICT GUN LAWS IN THE COUNTRY.

YOU THINK IT'S WE'VE HAD A VERY SOPHISTICATE LEGAL ARGUMENT SO FAR IN TERMS OF HOW THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO BE RULING ON THIS.

I THINK VIEWPOINT A LOT OF THE POLICY MAKER TIER, I THINK I SHARE THIS THAT AS WELL, IS THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATE, IT'S, PROSECUTOR FOR 13 YEARS.

ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR FOUR YEARS.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS HAWAII IS WELL‑KNOWN FOR IS VERY LOW CRIME RATE.

EVEN THE CRIME IT DOES HE OCCUR TENDS TO BE PROPERTY CRIME, NOT VIOLENT CRIMES.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN I THINK I END UP MAKE THAT LEAP.

THAT WELL, I THINK IT HAS DO WITH THE FACT THAT WE HAVE VERY STRICT GUN LAWS THAT REALLY PROTECT EVERYONE'S PUBLIC SAFETY.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT SAY THAT IS TOO BIG OF A LEAP OR NOT APPROPRIATE ONE TO MAKE.

I THINK SO.

I THINK THAT'S JUST MAKES COMMON SENSE.

THAT THAT IS WHAT IF YOU HAVE STRICT GUN LAWS THAT KEEP WEAPONS OUT OF THESE KIND OF WEAPONS OUT OF THE HANDS OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT BE SAFE, IF THEY DID OR PEOPLE THAT ARE AROUND THEM, THEN THAT KIND REGULATION MAKES SENSE.

SO IT IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW U.S. SUPREME COURT RULES ON THIS.

I THINK FOR A VERY LONG TIME, IT FELT LIKE THE U.S. SUPREME COURT WOULD BASICALLY BE LIKE, OKAY, STATES YOU GUYS CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

SOME STATES WILL HAVE STRICT LAW.

SOME STATES WON'T.

WE'LL LET THE STATING FIGURE IT OUT.

WE ARE POISED TO POTENTIALLY HAVE SOME SORT OF DIRECTION FROM THE CURRENT U.S. SUPREME COURT THAT MAY TURN THINGS A LITTLE BIT.

IN TERMS OF HOW THE STATES LOOK AT IT.

>>Yunji: UNDER THAT EXCEPTIONAL CASE THRESHOLD, WHO GETS TO CARRY A GUN.

>> I THINK APPROPRIATE DISCRETIONARY DECISION ‑‑ >> NO ONE.

>> TOP LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

WHO IS THEN ABLE TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE IS ABLE TO CARRY A FIREARM.

I DON'T THINK IT'S NOT AN ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT WE'LL GET TO CARRY.

I THINK BIGGEST ISSUE HAS TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT SOMEONE WHO IS IN CHARGE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, IS ABLE TO MAKE THAT KIND OF DECISION.

AND IT WORKS.

IT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT WORKS SO FAR.

WE HAVE THE GUN LAWS THAT WE HAVE FOR GOOD REASON.

AND IT'S KEPT PEOPLE SAFE SO FAR.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GIVE YOU AN OPPORTUNITY TO JUMP IN HERE.

IS INTEREST A DEMAND FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO CARRY A FIREARM RIGHT NOW?

I HEARD YOU SAY NO ONE.

>> NO ONE.

I THINK DOUG DID A REALLY GOOD JOB OF JUMPING AROUND THE QUESTION.

THE ANSWER IS NO ONE GETS TO CARRY.

BECAUSE OUR POLICE CHIEFS HAVE DECLARED AND DECREED THAT NO ONE GETS TO CARRY.

IS THERE DEMAND IS THIS ABSOLUTELY.

THERE IS A HUGE DEMAND.

HUGE DEMAND FOR TRAINING.

BEING ABLE TO DEFEND YOURSELF OUTSIDE THE HOME, WHEREVER YOU CHOOSE TO GO.

I DON'T LOCK MYSELF INSIDE MY HOUSE 24 HOURS A DAY.

SO WHILE THE HELLER DECISION WAS GREAT, GUARANTEEING AVAILABILITY PROTECT IS YOUR SELF DOES NOTHING FOR YOU OUTSIDE THE DOOR.

GUN LAWS EXIST IN HAWAII.

CRIMINALS HAVE GUN AND USE GUNS TO COMMIT CRIMES.

>> US LAW ABIDING IN HAWAII, UNABLE TO CARRY GUNS FOR SELF‑DEFENSE.

UNTIL RECENTLY, COULDN'T EVEN CARRY TASERS.

>> UNCLEAR HOW THAT'S GOING TO GO.

COURTS DECIDED THAT WITH ARE GOING TO GET TASER FOR SELF‑DEFENSE.

WE'RE TRYING TO DECIDE THE BUREAUCRACY, GOES INTO THE WAY OF BEING ABLE TO BE ABLE TO USE A TASER FOR SELF‑DEFENSE.

>>Yunji: CHRIS I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE.

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS IF THE SUPREME COURT DOES WIDEN THESE RESTRICTIONS IF YOU WILL, AND DOES ALLOW FOR PEOPLE TO CARRY GUNS?

>> I THINK THAT SIMPLY PUT, SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT SIDES WITH THE NRA HERE, WILL ENSURE THAT PEOPLE IN OUR STATE EXPERIENCE MORE GUN VIOLENCE.

SEEN IN OTHER STATES.

NOT THE EXACT EXAMPLE.

BUT SEEN WHEN FIREARM PERMITTING LAWS HAVE BEEN WEAKENED SHORT PERIOD OF TIME, HANDGUN HOMICIDES.

>> ORDER OF 10, 11%.

WHAT WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE IN HAWAII.

MORE GUNS.

MORE VIOLENCE, MORE DEATH.

MOREOVER, COURT DECISION IF THEY WERE DELIVER THIS VERDICT, UNPOPULAR WITH MOST AMERICANS.

THE OUT OF 10 AMERICANS THINK THAT A PERSON SHOULD HAVE TO HAVE A PERMANENT BEFORE CARRYING GUN IN PUBLIC.

I HAVEN'T SEEN SPECIFICALLY WHO HAWAII RESIDENTS SAY.

DESIRE CITIZENS TO KEEP THE LAWS WE HAVE TO KEEP US SAFE.

>> MAY I RESPOND?

>>Yunji: YES.

>> COUPLE OF THINGS, NOTICE DOUG SAID HE FELT IN THE CURRENT POLICY CONSIDERATIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, MAKING THESE KIND OF DECISIONS AND USING THAT DISCRETION, THAT SORT OF BOUNDLESS DISCRETION EXACTLY WHAT BROUGHT THE YOUNG CASE AND NEW YORK CASE TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WHAT IT RESULTS IS DE FACTO BAN.

AND HELLER TELLS US THAT WHEN YOU HAVE THAT SORT OF BOUNDLESS DISCRETION, AS OPPOSED TO BEING ABLE TO APPLY PERHAPS IF THE COURT DECIDES STRICT SCRUTINY, LIMITED FASHION, CERTAIN PEOPLE, IN CERTAIN IS AREAS, PERHAPS MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CARRY YOU, AGAIN, LOOKING THROUGH THE WRONG END OF THE TELESCOPE HERE.

THEY SAID CERTAIN POLICIES DECISIONS ARE OFF THE TABLE.

SO OUR KIND OF SET UP THAT WE HAVE HERE WHERE IT'S IN THE HANDS OF COUNTY CHIEFS, AND ALL OF THE COUNTY CHIEFS, UNIFORMLY SAID NOBODYND ANY CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC MEETS A VERY, VERY NARROW SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES WHICH NOBODY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE BECAUSE NOBODY HAS A CONCEALED OR OPEN CARRY PERMIT HERE.

AND SUCH, THAT IT BECOMES DE FACTO BAN.

THAT KIND OF LAW IS VERY UNLIKELY TO SURVIVE IF WE HAVE JUST COURT THAT VIEWS IT SORT OF THE SAME WAY THAT HELLER DID.

I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO SAY.

I HAVE NO IDEA.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S A VERY STRONG LIKELIHOOD THAT WHEN YOU HAVE REGIMES SUCH AS HAWAII AND NEW YORK, WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IS A RESTORATION OF RIGHTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS HAD.

IT'S JUST PLACES LIKE HAWAII AND NEW YORK HAVE BURIED IT UNDER THIS DE FACTO BAN AND CALLED IT DISCRETION.

IT DOESN'T MATTER REALLY WHETHER OR NOT IT'S POPULAR OR UNPOPULAR.

I'M SURE HELLER WASN'T POPULAR FOR SOME PEOPLE EITHER.

IT IS WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAYS.

LET ME SAY A FEW THINGS ABOUT WHAT HELLER DOES SAY.

IT DOESN'T TALK ABOUT DISCRETION.

THE FACTS WERE TERRIFIC FACTS FOR THE GUN OWNER.

WHO WAS SECURITY GUARD.

FEDERAL CASE.

DC.

HE SAID, THESE ARE VERY STRICT GUN REGULATIONS.

I HAVE TO TAKE MY GUN APART.

WORRIED ABOUT MY SAFETY.

LOT OF GUN VIOLENCE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AT THE TIME.

HE WON.

HE WON BECAUSE JUSTICE SCALIA FOR THE COURT SAID SOME STRANGE THINGS TO ONE EXTENT, BUT CERTAINLY, DIDN'T GO INTO THESE REGULATIONS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT FOLLOWS HELLER.

THE SECOND AMENDMENT, EVERYONE RUNS AROUND AS IF THEY KNOW WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT SAYS, LET ME SAY FOR A MOMENT, QUOTE, WHAT THE SECOND AMENDMENT SAYS.

IT SAYS, WELL REGULATED MILITIA BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF FREE STATE THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.

MILITIA, IT'S ABOUT GROUP.

I SAYS, NATURALLY, IT HAS TWO CLAUSES.

SO CAN TALK ABOUT THE SECOND AND NOT THE FIRST.

SO THAT IS INTERESTING FOR SOMEONE WHO SAYS, HE'S A TEXTUALIST.

ALSO THE CASE THAT HE SAYS, LET'S LOOK AT HISTORY.

HE HAS A HISTORY OF ARGUMENT AND JUSTICE STEVEN HAS A HISTORY ARGUMENT.

WHAT HE SAYS IN TERMS OF LIMITATIONS ON THIS RIGHT, IF IT'S A LONGSTANDING RULE, THERE'S A PRESUMPTION IN FAVOR OF REGULAR REGULATION.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO SAY ANY GUN.

LOOK AT WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE 1790s WHEN THEY PASSED THIS THING.

HE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT SHOWING CAUSE AND SO ON.

WE'VE HAD A LOT OF COURTS DIVIDING ON THAT QUESTION, OVER THE LAST 13 YEARS.

THE TEXT DOES NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION.

IN HAWAII, IN 1852, THERE WAS A VERY STRONG REGULATION OF DEADLY WEAPONS AND IN 1927, WHEN IT WAS ALREADY A TERRITORY.

VERY STRONG REGULATION.

SO IT IS LONGSTANDING IN HAWAII.

AND THEREFORE, MIGHT WELL FIT WITHIN WHAT YOU CAN JUSTICE SCALIA SAID WOULD BE ALLOWED.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE QUESTION IS.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GET TO SOME OF THESE VIEWER QUESTIONS.

LET'S GET THIS ONE OVER TO DOUG.

SHANNON FROM HAWAII KAI SAYS, IF THERE ISN'T OPEN CARRY, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO TEST AND CHECK ON MENTAL STABILITY?

WHEN THIS IS DONE IN OTHER STATES, HOW IS THIS CARRIED OUT SO THIS IS DONE IN A SAFEWAY?

>> I MEAN, THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM.

I THINK WHAT YOU COME UP WITH IS KIND OF TWO WAYS TO LOOK AT THE WORLD.

I THINK WHAT I HEARD, KAINOA SAID, RESPECT THE VIEWPOINT.

I WANT TO WALK AROUND WITH A FIREARM BECAUSE IT'S MY RIGHT.

AND BECAUSE IT HELPS ME TO FEEL SAFE.

I TEND BELONG TO THE OTHER SCHOOL OF THOUGHT WHERE I DON'T FEEL SAFE AT ALL.

IF I HAVE THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST WALKING AROUND, WITH FIREARMS, WITHOUT ANY GOOD SENSE OF REGULATION, WHEN I FIRST BECAME PROSECUTOR AROUND THREE YEARS IN, IS THAT WHEN IS THE XEROX SHOOTING HAPPENED?

BOSS, MENTOR, FIRST MENTOR, PETER CARLISLE, PROSECUTED BRIAN 7 PEOPLE SHOT NIMITZ BUILDING.

I CAN'T DRIVE PAST REMEMBERING THAT.

HOW MUCH IT AFFECTED OFFICE WHEN IT HAPPENED.

HOW MUCH IT AFFECTED THE STATE.

EVEN THOUGH THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS 21 YEARS AGO, I REFUSE TO FORGET THAT.

THAT WAS AN INSTANCE OF MASS SHOOTING REALLY SHOOK HAWAII TO THE CORE.

AND WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS SO OUT OF CHARACTER, FOR SOMEONE.

SOMEBODY WHO HAD REGISTERED FIREMENS.

WHO WAS NOT BEING CHECKED IF IN INN TERMS OF WHERE HIS MENTAL HEALTH AND MENTAL STABILITY WAS.

I THINK SINCE THEN, I THINK WHAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS TON HERE THAT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL, IS THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PASS MORE AN MORE LAWS TO REALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE DO SUBMIT TO THAT BACKGROUND CHECKS, THEY DO TAKE A FIREMEN SAFETY COURSE, THINGS THAT HELPED PEOPLE WHO PROPERLY COULD BE ABLE TO CARRY A FIREARM OR OWN A FIREMEN, AND POSSESS ONE, IS ARE PEOPLE GOING THROUGH THE PROPER CHECKS TO REALLY ABLE TO QUALIFY THEM TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WHEN I SAY QUALIFY, I MEAN, QUALIFYING IN TERMS OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

I THINK ULTIMATELY, THAT'S WHAT IT BOILS DOWN TO.

SOME PEOPLE FEEL SAFE.

IF EVERYONE IS ABLE TO GO AROUND CARRYING A FIREARM.

I DON'T FEEL THAT WAY.

I FEEL SAFE KNOWING THAT THERE ARE APPROPRIATE REGULATIONS IN PLACE THAT IS ABLE TO MAKE SURE THAT'S KEPT OUT OF HANDS OF PEOPLE THAT DO MASS VIOLENCE AND EVEN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OR OTHER THINGS THAT REALLY HURT AND POTENTIALLY CAUSE GREAT INJURY.

>>Yunji: LET'S GET TO ANOTHER QUESTION HERE.

WHICH IS WHAT DOUG IS TOUCHING ON.

WHY DO PEOPLE NEED TO CARRY A FIREMEN OUTSIDE IN PUBLIC?

>> WHY DO PEOPLE NEED TO GO OUTSIDE?

IT'S NOT MY BUSINESS.

IT'S A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT YOURSELF.

IF WE HAD ENGLISH PROFESSOR ON, COULD TALK ABOUT WELL REGULAR LAY MILITIA WAS WHEN THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN.

WELL REGULATED DIDN'T MEAN HAVE A BUNCH OF LAWS IN THE WAY TO MAKE SURE RIGHT PEOPLE HAVE GUNS.

MEANT WELL TRAINED.

AND THAT WHAT WE STRIVE TO DO WITH THE HAWAII RIFLE ASSOCIATION.

TAKE PEOPLE FRESH, WANT TO LEARN HOW TO TOW FEND THEMSELVES, DEFEND FAMILIES AND TEACH TO GO ABOUT DOING THAT.

BUT AS FOR DOUG BRINGING UP BRIAN.

UESUGI.

I ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT LAWS COULD PREVENTED BRIAN DOING WHAT HE DID.

NONE.

>> LEGALLY USED ALL OF THOSE FIREARMS TO COMMIT A CRIME.

SOMEONE HAS EVIL INTENT.

IN HEART, THEY'RE GOING EVIL.

FRANCE, INDIVIDUAL USED SEMITRUCK, KILLED PEOPLE AND WOUNDED 500.

DOESN'T MATTER TOOL IS.

EVIL INTENT IS GOING TO DO EVIL.

WE WANT THE ABILITY TO PROTECT OURSELVES IN THE EVENT EVIL OCCURS.

CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTED RIGHT.

ONLY NOW GOING TO THE SUPREME COURT.

BOGGLES THE MIND.

I'M GLAD WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A DEFINITIVE ANSWER BECAUSE LIVING HAWAII IF YOU'RE A GUN RIGHTS GUY IN HAWAII, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE OPTIMIST.

OTHERWISE, WE WOULDN'T DO THIS.

>>Yunji: LET'S GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS QUESTION.

WHY DO PEOPLE NEED TO CARRY FIREARM OUTSIDE IN PUBLIC.

WITH WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE?

>> I THINK YOU HEAR FOLKS TALKING ABOUT SECOND OF AMENDMENT.

SECOND AMENDMENT FOR I SHALL SHOULD BE CARRY MY BEEN WHEREVER I WANT.

ECHOING NRA CURRENT AGENDA.

CURRENT AGENDA, GUNSEVERYWHERE FOR EVERYBODY.

NO QUESTIONED ASKED.

WHY IS THAT THERE AGENDA?

BECAUSE THEY REPRESENT GUN MANUFACTURERS AND THEY WANT TO MAKE MORE MONEY.

MORE GUNS SOLD, MEANS MORE MONEY FOR GUN MANUFACTURERS.

I THINK SPEAKING SORT OF TO AUDIENCE TODAY, THAT MIGHT BE GUN OWNERS.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND ISSUE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SPECIFICALLY,ER OUR CASE, ISN'T ABOUT OWNING A GUN LEGALLY.

NOT ABOUT PROTECTING YOUR FAMILY.

NOT ABOUT COLLECTING GUNS OR HUNTING.

NOT ACTUALLY ANTI‑GUN VERSUS PRO GUN DEBATE.

DON'T JUMP ON THE PRO GUN BECAUSE YOU OWN OR LIKE GUNS.

PEOPLE WANT TO KEEP THEIR KIDS SAFE VERSUS GUN LOBBY ATTEMPT TO INCREASE PROFITS FOR GUN MANUFACTURER.

YOUR NEIGHBORS VERSUS BIG CORPORATIONS.

IF WE HAVE LESS REGULATION, THEY'RE GOING TO SELL MORE GUN.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE HAPPY.

AS VETERAN, THAT IS NOT HOW I LEARN TO BEHAVE AROUND FIREARMS.

MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH PEOPLE WOULD USE A GUN TOY, POLITICAL FOOTBALL.

NOT WHAT THE FRAMERS HAD IN MIND WHEN THEY WROTE THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, MUCH ABOUT GUN MANUFACTURER'S PROFITS.

WHAT IS THE NRA IS AFTER IN NEW YORK.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO READ A COUPLE OF THESE, THEN GET YOUR RESPONSE.

BUT WE'VE GOT COUPLE OF DIFFERENT, THIS DEBATE OBVIOUSLY, RUNS WIDE SPECTRUM.

I AM GREAT FOLLOW FOR HAWAII'S STRICT GUN LAWS.

I'VE HAD A CARRY PERMIT IN PULL MINIMUM STATES CURRENTLY HOLD TWO OUT OF STATE PERMITS.

USED FIREARM SELF‑DEFENSE DETER A MAN ATTEMPTING TO ROB ME.

IF WE GET A SUPREME COURT DECISION.

THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT OF UNHAPPY PEOPLE ON BOTH.

ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS BRING SOME CLARITY TO HAWAII.

HOW WILL THAT ACTUALLY DO YOU THINK PAN OUT?

>> SO IF WE GET A DECISION THAT WE EXPECT WE WILL, NOT WILL PROBABLY BE IN THE SPRING, PROBABLY IS LATE AS JUNE.

I DON'T KNOW.

THEY COULD ISSUE IT IN MARCH.

OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN THEY DO, THEY'RE GOING PROVIDE FRAMEWORK AND IT'S GOING TO WORK OUT THAT I THINK, AGAIN, I'M OPTIMISTIC THAT THE COURTS WILL SAY, THAT IT IS UP TO THE LEGISLATURE TO JUST LEGISLATE AS THEY MENTIONED IN HELLER.

PERHAPS IN SENSITIVE AREAS.

ENTIRE STATE CANNOT BE A SENSITIVE AREA.

HAWAII AND NEW YORK HAVE IT BACK.

LONGSTANDING PROEFFICIENT CANNOT PARK IN BACK TO THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM.

I DON'T THINK HELLER LOOKING EARLY 20TH CENTURY.

LOOKING BEFORE THAT.

WITH REGARD HOW THIS IS GOING TO WORK, WHEN THE LEGISLATURE TRIES TO DETERMINE WHAT THE STATUTORY SCHEME DID GOING TO BE WITH REGARD TO CARRYING OPENLY AN OR CONCEAL, THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE FEW THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, NO AMOUNT OF LEGISLATION, WHO IS GOING TO DO SOMETHING LATER.

AND WE ALREADY HAVE A DATABASE IN PLACE.

SHOULD A FELON TRY TO GO GET PERMISSION ASSUMING THAT SOME LEVEL OF PERMISSION NEEDED TO CARRY.

WE HAVE DATABASE TELL US WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAVE A FELONY, VIOLENT FELONY CONVICTION.

AS FAR AS EVERYTHING ELSE, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN DIVINE WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY HAS, JUST CHECKING A BOX.

THAT THAT HE THIS HAVE SOME SORT OF MENTAL CONDITION.

THERE MIGHT BE SOME I SUPPOSE.

AT THE EDGES.

BUT YOU CANNOT TAKE HAMMER APPROACH AND SAY, EVERYBODY HAS TO PROVE TO THE AUTHORITY THAT THEY ARE NOT SUFFERING FROM SOMETHING.

THAT'S NOT THE WAY RIGHTS WORK.

RIGHTS ARE NOT ALSO BASED UPON NEED.

SO I THINK IF WE CAN TAKE WHAT WE SAW IN HELLER, WHICH IS THAT AT ITSELF CORE, IT'S ABOUT SELF‑DEFENSE.

IT'S ABOUT CHOICE.

AND SO FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS, THEY DON'T WANT TO CARRY A WEAPON, FINE.

DON'T.

BUT, DOUG, YOU SAID YOU DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE IN A PLACE WITH SOMEBODY CARRYING A WEAPON.

WHICH MEANS PROBABLY A LOT OF STATES.

FLORIDA AND ARIZONA, VARIETY OF OTHER STATES HAVE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY WHERE YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF THE FOUR GUYS SITTING AT THE TABLE NEXT TO YOU, ANY ONE OF THEM OR FOUR OF THEM ARE ARMED.

THAT IS OKAY.

AND THAT IS AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION HERE.

YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING HERE, ABOUT TOURISM.

I THINK THAT, AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO DIVINE WHAT THE U.S. SUPREME COURT GOING TO SAY.

CONCEAL, AND OPEN CARRY ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

NOW, IF YOU CARRY A RIFLE ON YOUR BACK, AND YOU'RE IN NORTHERN ARIZONA, I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS GOING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS WHAT KIND OF RIFLE.

I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS IF IT CARRIES 30 ROUNDS OR EVEN IF IT'S BURST CAPABLE.

ALLOW THAT SEVERAL STATES.

THAT WOULD BE LEGAL IN A PLACE LIKE ARIZONA.

IF YOU CARRY THAT WEAPON ON THE BEACH IN WAIKIKI, YOU WOULD HAVE DIFFERENT RESULT.

SO PERHAPS THERE IS ROOM WHEN THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT GIVES THE STATES THE TOOLS FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO LEGISLATE IN SOME FASHION, WELL, WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH OPEN CARRY.

BUT YOU CAN CONCEAL CARRY ALL DAY IN HAWAII.

OKAY.

AND THEN THERE IS DEFINITIONS.

CERTAIN STATES CONCEALED MEANS YOU CAN'T EVEN WHAT'S CALLED PRINT.

WHICH MIKEY MONIZ IF YOU'RE CARRYING CONCEAL, BUT SOMEBODY CAN FIGURE OUT YOU'RE CARRYING CONCEAL VIOLATING THE STATUTE.

BECAUSE WE WANT IT REALLY CONCEALED.

AND OPEN CAN BE THE SAME THING.

CARRYTY MOSTLY CONCEALED BUT LITTLE BIT OF FIREARM IS STICKING OUT, THAT MIGHT PASS THE LAW IN THAT PARTICULAR STATE.

>>Yunji: LET'S GET SO FEW MORE QUESTIONS HERE.

I'M SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF THERE.

WHO MAKES THE DECISION AS TO WHAT IS AN EXCEPTIONAL CASE?

WHY AREN'T PERMITS BEING ISSUED TO THOSE WHO QUALIFY?

>> WE DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THAT.

I'VE HEARD FROM SOME OF THE PANELISTS THAT THEY THINK NOBODY GETS THEM.

BUT THERE'S NO RECORD INTERESTLY IN THE YOUNG CASES.

SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE APPLIED.

WHAT PERCENTAGE.

WE GEORGE YOUNG DIDN'T GET IT.

THAT'S YES CHALLENGED IT.

THAT PRESUMABLY WOULD BE DEVELOPED AFTER THE SUPREME COURT DECIDES WHETHER OR NOT OUR CURRENT SYSTEM WORKS.

CONSTITUTIONALLY.

I WANT TO MAKE ANOTHER POINT.

MAYBE IT NEEDS SAYING.

THIS VERY IMPORTANT RIGHT TO SO MANY PEOPLE WASN'T RECOGNIZED UNTIL 2008.

SAY FEDERAL RIGHT.

REPEATEDLY, LOST.

SO THINGS WERE CHANGED IN 2008.

BEFORE 2008, YOU DIDN'T HEAR PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND AND PUTTING UP SIGNS AND PROTESTING.

ABOUT NOT HAVING THIS INDIVIDUAL RIGHT.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE IT AND IT HAD BEEN DECIDED FOR A LONG TIME.

SUPREME COURT REVERSED PRECEDENCE.

ALL RELATIVELY NEW.

AND WE'VE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT HISTORY.THERE WAS NO FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO CARRY EVEN IN YOUR HOME.

SO WE'RE NOW PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES OF SOMETHING THAT IS NEW.

THAT'S WHY THE COURTS ARE QUITE DIVIDED.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO SAY.

>> IF I COULD JUMP QUICKLY.

ANOTHER CASE OUT THERE THAT IS SPECIFIES, PART OF A RECORD IN ANOTHER CASEY THINK IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, OR SO, HAVEN'T BEEN ANY CONCEALED WEAPON PERMITS GRANTED BY ANY OF THE COUNTIES.

I CAN'T REMEMBER THE CASE.

OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

ALREADY SOME STATISTIC OUT THERE.

IT MIGHT BE ‑‑ THANK YOU.

>> ONE OF POINTS MAKING, DON'T HAVE THAT MANY PEOPLE PERHAPS WANT TO CARRY MAY HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE HAPPY SO WE DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE APPLY.

THAT WOULD BE IMPORTANT DATA.

>> KAINOA, SEVERAL PEOPLE IN THE FIREARM COMMUNITY.

APPLIED REPEATEDLY AND KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO GET DENIED.

DOING IT BECAUSE.

ALSO THINK I'M SORRY.

MUST DISAGREE.

PRIOR TO THE GUN OLRY ACT AND FIREARMS ACT IN 1930'S, A LOT PEOPLE HAD FIREARMS WITH THEM AND HAD THEM WITH THEM INSIDE THEIR HOUSE.

OUTSIDE THEIR HOUSE.

HAD AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.

RIFLES.

PISTOLS.

CONCEAL PISTOLS.

DID ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

IT WAS GENERALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT PEOPLE COULD CARRY OUTSIDE THE HOME.

AFTER RECONSTRUCTION, A LOT OF THE SENATORS WERE TALKING WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS ENSURE THAT FREE BLACKS HAD THE ABILITY TO CARRY WEAPONS WITH THEM WHEREVER THEY WENT.

WHY?

SO THAT THEY COULD DEFEND THEMSELVES VERSUS GROUPS LIKE THE KKK.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE CONGRESS TALKING ABOUT THE 1960S.

ONCE SLAVES WERE FREE, HAVE RIGHTS FREEMAN TO CARRY ARMS WHEREVER THEY WANT.

COMES FROM THE SCOTT DECISION HE SAID, WELL, CAN HE WE COULDN'T POSSIBLY HAVE THAT BECAUSE THEN THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO CARRY ARMS WHEREVER WE WENT.

PRESUMED THEY COULD CARRY OUTSIDE WHEREVER THEY WENT.

AT LEAST GENERALLY.

>>Yunji: I WITH WANT TO BRING IT BACK.

GET YOUR TAKE.

DOES BECOMING OPEN CARRY STATE JUST CAUSE PEOPLE TO TURN TO GUNS QUICKER THAN ANYTHING BECAUSE OF CONFLICT REMEMBER THAN OTHER FORMS OF CONFLICT RESOLUTION?

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED FROM OTHER STATES WHO DO HAVE OPEN CARRY PERMITTING?

>> I'M SORRY.

>>Yunji: CHRIS, PLEASE.

>> THANK YOU.

MENTIONED BEFORE, WE'VE SEEN WHEN PERMITTING LAWS GET LOOSE, WE SEE 10, 11% INCREASE.

HANDGUN HOMICIDE.

NOW, FROM MY EXPERIENCE, MY EXPERIENCE COMES FROM THE MILITARY.

I KNOW WE HAVE TWO OTHER VETERANS ON THIS PANEL.

IT WAS DRILLED INTO MY HEAD THAT GUNS ARE USED TO TAKE HUMAN LIFE.

MILITARY TRAINING.

THAT IS THEIR PRIMARY PURPOSE.

LEGAL DEBATE AS SIDE, ROBUST LEGAL DEBATE TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH TONIGHT.

GUNS ARE NOT ON IDEA.

GUNS ARE NOT INTANGIBLE.

NOT A RIGHT.

PHYSICAL TOOLS.

THEY ARE WEAPON DESIGNED TO KILL.

I BELIEVE ANYBODY OWNS A GUN FOR SELF‑DEFENSE PURPOSES INCLUDING LOTS OF RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS IN HAWAII AND ELSEWHERE, MUST BE PREPARED PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND MORALLY TO TAKE A HUMAN LIFE IF NECESSARY.

THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN SELF‑DEFENSE.

IF YOU'RE NOT PREPARED DO THAT, WHY HAVE A GUN FOR SELF‑DEFENSE?

THAT SOUNDS REALLY MORE BID, BUT THE TRUTH IS IT SHOULD BECAUSE GUNS ARE MADE TO KILL.

EVERY WEEK, SOMEBODY IN HAWAII DIES FROM A GUN.

IN FACT, ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, 100 PEOPLE DIE EVERY DAY.

BEFORE I WENT TO AFGHANISTAN, I WAS TAUGHT, TRAIN AND PREPARED THAT ALONG WITH EVERYBODY ELSE I SERVED WITH, PREPARED FOR THE INEVITABLY WE MIGHT USE OUR WEAPON TO TAKE A HUMAN LIFE.

MOST CIVILIANS TAKE THAT LETHALTY GUNS SERIOUSLY.

TAKE IT FOR GRANT.

REALLY SHOULDN'T.

IMPORTANT TO ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT GUNS AND GUN OWNERSHIP AND GUN REGULATIONS ARE ALL LITERALLY DEADLY SERIOUS ISSUES.

>>Yunji: I GOT TWO QUESTIONS FOR YOU.

THIS ON THE SELF‑DEFENSE ARGUMENT THAT YOU BROUGHT UP.

SHAWN SAYS, IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND SHOULDN'T IT JUST BE ONE GUN PER PERSON, WHY DO PEOPLE NEED MULTIPLE FIREARMS AND THERE IS NOR QUESTION HERE, ADDRESSED TO YOU.

WHICH IS WHY NOT ALLOW TASERS OR PEPPER SPRAY FOR THE PUBLIC INSTEAD OF GUNS?

>> TASERS ARE CURRENTLY, FOR THE MOST PART, BANNED.

JUST A DECISION THAT LEGALIZED THEM IN HAWAII.

NOW, OUR STATE IS DECIDING ON RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS OF REGULATION TO PUT ON TASERS.

FOR TRAINING AND WHATNOT.

IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO DECIDE.

HOW MANY GUNS OR WHAT GUNS I USE FOR SELF‑DEFENSE.

MY SITUATION WILL DICTATE THAT.

AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS AT ITS CORE, MEANT TO STOP TYRANNY.

IN THE MICROAND MACRO.

USED FOR PREVENT TYRANNY.

IN MICRO, THEIR IS SELF‑DEFENSE.

SOME GUY TRIES TO MUG YOU MUCH PULL OUT YOUR GUN.

CONGRATULATIONS.

GO HOME IN A BODY BAG.

IT IS VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATION.

THAT WE'RE HAVING.

CHRIS IS RIGHT.

IF IS SERIOUS CONVERSATION.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT MOST PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT.

VIOLENCE HAPPENS EVERY DAY.

AND CDC DETERMINED THAT SELF‑DEFENSE USES WITH GUNS OCCUR EVERY YEAR.

>> BETWEEN 60,000 AND 2.5 MILLION TIMES IN THE UNITED STATES.

COMPARE 60,000 OR SO DEATHS MOST OF WHICH ARE SUICIDES, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR TRADEOFF I'LL TAKE THAT 2.5 OR EVEN THAT 60,000.

ON THE BOTTOM END.

OF PEOPLE.

USING FIREARM TO SABER THEIR LIFE.

SIMPLY BY BRANDISHING IT.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT KILLING PEOPLE.

THIS IS ABOUT ABILITY TO PROTECT YOURSELF.

OFFICERS HAVE THE RIGHT TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

NO LEGAL OBLIGATIONS TO PROTECT US.

WE ARE OBLIGATED TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND OUR FAMILY.

SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO NOT BE PROTECTED, THAT IS UP TO YOU.

I DON'T CARE.

I SIMPLY FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHTS OF MYSELF AND INDIVIDUALS WHO DO WANT IT CAR FIREARM FOR SELF‑DEFENSE.

IF YOU WANT PEPPER SPRAY OR TASER.

FANTASTIC.

ALL ABOUT CHOICE, I WANT TO THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHAT I USE, WHAT TOOL I USE TO DEFEND MYSELF AND MY FAMILY.

>> QUICK.

ONE STAT THAT KIND OF WAS LEAVING OUT, IF YOU HAVE A BEEN IN YOUR HOUSE, STATISTICALLY, THAT GUN IS MORE LIKELY TO KILL A MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY TO BE USED IN SELF‑DEFENSE.

JUST FOR ALL GUN OWNERS THINKING ABOUT SELF‑DEFENSE.

THAT IS A FACT.

AND.

>> I APPRECIATE.

>> OR YOURSELF.

GUN SUICIDE.

>> MAY I JUMP IN?

WANT TO GET TO YOU.

ACTUALLY TWO PARTS TO THIS QUESTION.

FIRST ONE IS THAT KAINOA BROUGHT UP LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THEIR ABILITY TO CARRY FIREARMS.

SOMETHING LIKE THIS IS FASTED, WHAT DO WE KNOW FROM OTHER STATES HAVING BEEN IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, YOURSELF, ALLOW DOES THAT CHANGE THE CALCULUS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT IF WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE CITIZENS WHO CAN HAVE A GUN ON THEIR PERSON AT ANY TIME?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T THINK I'M TOO FAR OUT ON A LIMB.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY WHETHER THEY ARE PROSECUTING ATTORNEY, HAVE BEEN THE APPOINT THE U.S. ATTORNEY, WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN ATTORNEY GENERAL, IN HAWAII, OR WHETHER THEY HAVE BEEN IN COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENTS, I THINK THERE WOULD BE A VERY STRONG CONCERN.

I MEAN, I'VE ACTUALLY LISTENING TO WHAT KAINOA AND KEVIN SAID.

WITH LOT OF RESPECT AND GREAT INTEREST.

BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY MAKES ME THINK, OKAY, ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING.

ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT SOMETHING.

MASS SHOOTER LIKE BYRON UESUGI NO ONE COULD HAVE STOPPED HIM.

I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH LESS STRINGENT LAWS AND OTHER STATES I MUST NEVER GO TO FLORIDA OR TEXAS.

OR PLACES LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, KIND OF BE, I THINK ANYBODY WHO IS LISTENING TO THIS CONVERSATION, REALIZE, THAT'S THE TWO SIDE OF THE COIN DEALING WITH.

MAKE PEOPLE'S PASSIONS GO.

I BELONG TO THE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT FEEL LIKE THERE'S WHAT WE HAVE STRICTER GUN LAWS, THERE IS LESS CRIME.

LESS CRIME HAPPENS IN HAWAII.

WHEN THERE IS VIOLENT CRIME, VIOLENT CRIME THAT DOES OCCUR TENDS TO BE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE OFTEN INVOLVES THINGS WHERE PEOPLE ARE USING FIREARM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE IS JUST THAT, I JUST HAPPEN TO BELONG TO THAT SCHOOL.

I DON'T KNOW, I'M OPEN.

I'M REALLY INTERESTED IN HEARING THESE OTHER WAYS TO LOOK AT IT.

I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK I FEEL THE WAY MOST PEOPLE HERE FEEL.

WHICH IS JUST KNOWING THAT WE HAVE GOOD SOLID REGULATIONS THAT THINK ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY, THOSE MEASURES BEING IN PLACE IT'S NOT DENYING THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT.

I THINK ALL OF US ON THIS SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION JUST AS MUCH.

AND BELIEVE IN IT.

WE JUST THINK THERE IS ANOTHER WAY TO THINK ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION.

THAN HOW IT'S BEING VIEWED.

WILL THAT ULTIMATELY BE SETTLED WITH THE SUPREME COURT?

FOR NOW, SURE.

THAT'S WHAT SEEMS TO BE WHAT IS ON THE HORIZON.

>> WITH REGARD TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ISSUE.

>>Yunji: GO AHEAD.

>> SURE.

YEARS AGO, I WAS ALSO RESERVE DEPUTY IN ARIZONA.

AND I THINK THAT YOU'RE RIGHT.

LAW ENFORCEMENT HERE WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A SERIOUS READJUSTMENT.

BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT USED TO ANYBODY HAVING A FIREARM OTHER THAN, OTHER POLICE OFFICERS ACTIVE POLICE OFFICERS.

RIGHT NOW.

IT WOULD TAKE A SERIOUS READJUSTMENT BUT I CAN TELL YOU, THERE'S A VARIETY OF OTHER STATES OUT THERE.

A LOT IN THE SOUTH AND SOUTHWEST.

WHERE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS ENCOUNTER ARMED INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOT DANGER.

THEY'RE NOT A THREAT.

CARRYING CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY OR OPEN.

OR CONCEALED WITH A PERMIT AND LAW ENFORCEMENT IS FINE WITH THEM.

INTERACT WITH THEM.

NUMEROUS EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE CARRYING WEAPONS WHO HAVE ASSISTED AND SAVED LIVES OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

BECAUSE THEY HAD THOSE OPTIONS.

AND I JUST WANTED TO END WITH ONE OTHER ITEM HERE.

YOU MENTIONED DOMESTIC VIOLENCE.

I THINK FREQUENTLY, I FIND IT INTERESTING THAT NOBODY THINKS ABOUT THE WOMAN WHO GETS A TRO.

PIECE OF PAPER.

AND SHE MOVES TO ANOTHER PART OF ISLAND.

AND HE FINES HER.

AND HE BRING A 2 BY 4 OR PIECE OF REBAR AND HE'S GOING TO CLUB HER TO DEATH.

SHE HAS A PIECE OF PAPER.

AND YES, HOPEFULLY, LAW ENFORCEMENT WILL GET THERE AND STOP HIM.

OR SOMETHING ELSE.

BUT IF IT'S JUST HER AND HIM, I WOULD RATHER HE BE ARMED OR AT LEAST.

HAVE THE CHOICE TO BE ARMED.

IF SHE DOESN'T WANT TO, THAT'S FINE.

SHE CAN HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER OR TASER OR BATON OR FIREARM OR ALL OF THE ABOVE.

BUT DON'T DEPRIVE HER OF ALL THE OPTIONS IS MY POINT.

I DON'T THINK THAT CONSTITUTION WOULD ALLOW HOPEFULLY, AFTER THE NEW YORK CASE.

WOULD ALLOW THE GOVERNMENT TO SAY, YOU MUST RELY ON 911 ONLY.

>>Yunji: QUICK RESPONSE.

>> I APPRECIATE IT.

I THINK MANY WAYS, LIKE WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM KAINOA KEVIN, WHAT I HEARD FROM THE GUN RIGHTS ADVOCATES EVERY TIME I WENT TO A ATTORNEY GENERAL OR GOVERNOR CONFERENCE.

CLASSIC REBUTTAL POINTS TO ME IS COMMON SENSOR JUST KIND OF REASONABLE WAY TO THINK ABOUT FIREARMS.

I THINK IT'S USEFUL.

I DON'T STILL THINK THAT IS THE WORLD THAT MOST OF US WANT TO LIVE IN.

I GET THAT THERE MIGHT BE A COMMUNITY OUT THERE WHERE IT WORKS.

I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IS HOW PEOPLE, DANIEL K. INOUYE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT KNOW IF HAWAII IS READY TO MAKE THAT BIG LEAP.

MAKE THAT BIG ADJUSTMENT.

MAYBE WE'LL BE FORCED TO START THINKING ABOUT IT MORE.

BECAUSE OF HOW THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RULES ON IT.

THAT IS FINE.

I THINK ULTIMATELY, MAYBE THE BEST PLACE FOR PEOPLE ON BOTH ENDS OF SPECTRUM IS TO REALLY JUST THINK ABOUT OKAY, HOW DO WE MOVE THE DIAL BACK AND FORTH?

SO WE CAN REALLY BALANCE THINGS OUT AS WELL AS WE CAN.

FOR SURE WE DISAGREE WHERE WE SET THAT BALANCE.

I THINK ULTIMATELY, COMMUNITIES PROBABLY JUST MORE FEELING LIKE THEY'RE SAFER WITH THE WAY THINGS ARE.

>> DON'T HAVE TO CARRY.

>>Yunji: I HAVE A QUESTION HERE FROM LORRAINE.

SAYS, SHE LIKE SOMEONE ON PANEL TO MORE DESCRIPTIVELY TALK ABOUT WHAT THE OPEN CARRY LAW WOULD MEAN FOR CITIZEN.

JUST ON A PRACTICAL LEVEL.

I KNOW THAT YOU LAID OUT THERE COULD BE A VARIETY OF WAYS THAT THIS COULD GO.

JUST SIMPLE TERMS FOR LORRAINE AND REST US, WHAT WOULD THIS MEAN?

>> VAST VARIETY, ALREADY AS SUGGESTED.

YOU COULD JUST GET A GUN, AND GUN FAIRS AND YOU MIGHT GET IT WITHOUT A BACKGROUND CHECK.

>> NO.

>> HELLO?

EXCUSE ME.

>> OR YOU COULD HAVE A HIGHLY REGULATED PERMIT SYSTEM OR SOME BACKGROUND CHECK.

I AM GLAD THAT I AM NOT IN TEXAS.

THINGS DON'T FEEL ALL THAT SAFE WITH ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE CARRYING.

WE OF COURSE KNOW THAT THE NRA IS CHRIS MENTIONED, HAS BEEN BEHIND ALL SORTS OF GUNS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MILITIA IN 1778, 1789.

>> 179 1, PROBLEMATIC WE HAVE MASS SHOOTINGS.

NOT PEOPLE PROTECTING THEMSELVES.

SO BEFORE WE GO AND KEVIN IS RIGHT ABOUT BLACKS AND THEIR RIGHT.

MCDONALD CASE OUT OF CHICAGO TALKED ABOUT THAT I DON'T HEAR BIGGER, OTHER RIGHTS OF BLACKS AND OTHER WAYS IN WHICH PEOPLE NEED PROTECTION.

I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MORE OF THAT FROM THE SECOND AMENDMENT ADVOCATES.

AND LITTLE LESS ABOUT ALL GUNS ANY TIME.

I THINK IT IS ADMIRABLE WE HAVE PEOPLE TRAINED.

I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

ONE HOPES THAT WOULD BE PART OF IF THE SUPREME COURT OPENS THE DOOR.

SELF‑DEFENSE.

OUTSIDE THE HOME.

SELF‑DEFENSE OUTSIDE THE HOME IS PERHAPS THE QUESTIONER MEANS TO SUGGEST, CAN GET OUT OF HAND.

PRETTY QUICKLY.

>>Yunji: TO THAT POINT, QUESTION FROM TIM HERE.

I LOVE FOR YOUR TAKE ON.

FIRST QUESTION, DO I HAVE A RIGHT TO DEFEND MYSELF AGAINST A VIOLENT ATTACK OUTSIDE MY HOME.

IF THE ANSWER YES, DOES THAT NOT MEAN I HAVE THE RIGHT TO POSSESS MEANS TO EFFECTIVELY DEFEND MYSELF OUTSIDE MY HOME?

WHAT ABOUT THIS SELF‑DEFENSE ARGUMENT AND THAT IT EXTENDS BEYOND THE HOME?

>> IN ORDER TO HAVE BE PREPARED FOR THAT SELF‑DEFENSE, THAT LETHALITY GUN OFFERS, BE AGAIN PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND MORALLY PREPARED TO TAKE A HUMAN LIFE, IF ATTACKED, I PERSONALLY I WOULD PREFER TO USE BASEBALL BAT OR SOMETHING.

THAT IS WHAT I KEEP BY MY BED SIDE.

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO KILL SOMEBODY.

I'VE BEEN TO COMBAT.

BEEN IN THAT SCENARIO.

DO NOT WANT TO PUT MYSELF IN THAT SITUATION AGAIN.

PUT IN THE CONTEXT OF HAWAII.

PREPARED TO DEFEND YOURSELF, GUN ON YOU AT ANY TIME.

DON'T KNOW WHEN YOU'RE GOING TO BE ATTACKED.

SOMEONE IN HAWAII THAT LIKES TO EXERCISE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE.

BLACK LIVES MATTER MARCH, COVID LOCKDOWN WAS DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE AGENDA THERE.

YOU'RE THERE.

MASSIVE GROUP OF PEOPLE, DO YOU WANT SOME OF THEM TO BE CARRYING FIREARMS.

LOADED GUN AROUND YOU?

MOST PEOPLE IN HAWAII DON'T.

DON'T WANT THAT.

IF YOU'RE SOMEONE WHO DOES WANT THAT, DON'T YOU WHATnd TO ALSO KNOW THAT PERSON IS WELL TRAINED AND SAFE AND RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNER?

INCUMBENT UPON OUR GUN SAFETY LAWS TO GIVE US THAT CONFIDENCE.

WHAT WE SEEING WITH THIS CASE IS JUST IT'S BEGINNING OF WHAT THE NRA IS TRYING TO DO.

SEE IT IN STATES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

TRYING TO ERODE ALL GUN LAWS.

EARLIER THIS YEAR, IOWA PASSED LAW THAT BOTH GOT RID OF BACKGROUND CHECKS AND IMPLEMENTED PERMITLESS CARRY.

NOW, SOMEBODY NOT BACKGROUND CHECKED AND DOESN'T HAVE A PERMIT, CAN JUST GO CARRY A GUN ANYWHERE.

LOOK WHAT THE HAPPENING IN MICHIGAN.

PROTESTERS TOOK OVER THE CAPITOL STANDING THERE WITH GUNS PROTEST THEIR RIGHT TO GET A HAIRCUT.

PEOPLE WITH GUNS USING THE GUNS TO DEMONSTRATE THAT PERCEIVED THREAT OF DEADLY VIOLENCE TO QUELL VOICES PEOPLE THEY DISAGREE WITH.

GROUP OF AMERICANS HIDING BEHIND THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN ORDER TO STRIP AWAY FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS FREE SPEECH, PEACEFULLY ASSEMBLE FROM ANOTHER GROUP OF AMERICAN.

IN HAWAII, NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO SEE HAPPEN HERE.

THE WAY THAT I CAN FEEL SAFE AT A PROTEST, PEOPLE DON'T HAVE THESE GUNS.

AND I THINK THAT WE TAKE IT ONE STEP FURTHER AND LOOK AT JANUARY 6.

WE SEE WHAT GOOD GUN LAWS DID ACCOMPLISH.

WHAT WAS THE TRAGEDY, BUT DC DIDN'T HAVE THE GUN LAWS THAT THEY HAD AN MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE ARMED, MOST OF THEM WOULD HAVE BEEN LEGALLY ALLOWED TO, MIGHT GET MUGGED IN DC.

THOSE SAME PEOPLE GOING TO BEAT A CAPITAL POLICE OFFICER WITH A FLAG POLE, WOULD BE MORE THAN TO HAVE SHOT HIM.

ANOTHER ONE AND ANOTHER ONE AND ANOTHER ONE.

MORE THAN WILLING.

WOULD HAVE SEEN MORE DEAD ON JANUARY 6.

NOT SOMETHING WE WANT IN HAWAII.

>> MAY I RESPOND.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GET KAINOA TAKE ON THAT.

BEFORE I GET HIS RESPONSE.

I WANT TO READ THIS COMMENT FROM JOEL.

WOULD SAYS, TO THIS ESTEEMED FORUM, HALF OF WHOM ARE PRO AND HALF AGAINST, FEEL WE'RE MUCH BETTER OFF KNOWING SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE MOSTLY IN LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE GUNS ON THEIR HIP OR AGAINST THEIR RIB OF ALL OTHERS ARE LAW BREAKERS.

THAT'S THE WAY MAJORITY IN HAWAII HAWAII FEELS.

NOT BROKEN, DON'T TRY TO FIX IT.

IS IT BROKEN RIGHT NOW?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BEFORE WHICH MOVE ON, I GOT TO TOUCH UPON A COUPLE OF UNTRUTHS.

THERE IS FOR GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE IN HAWAII.

DOESN'T EXIST.

WE HAVE SOME OF THE MOST STRINGENT GUN OWNERS REQUIREMENTS IN HAWAII.

THREE TRIPS TO HPD TO BUY SINGLE HANDGUN.

JUST WON A CASE AGAINST THAT.

BUCKLE UP.

KEEPING BAT BY YOUR BEDSIDE YOU DON'T WANT TO KILL SOMEONE, JUST AS MANY PEOPLE ARE KILLED WITH BLUNT OBJECTS EVERY YEAR AS RIFLES.

SO IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT A BASEBALL BAT CAN KILL SOMEONE, YOU MIGHT WANT TO DO MORE RESEARCH.

>> NOT AS EFFECTIVE.

BACKGROUND CHECK, IOWA, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY BACKGROUND CHECK IN IOWA THAT TAKES PLACE WHEN YOU PURCHASE YOUR FIREARM FROM A GUN DEALER RESCUES AS THERE IS WITH EVERY SINGLE FFL IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

WHAT THEY REMOVED A IOWA UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK, PROVEN UNEFFECTIVE WITHOUT A FEDERAL REGISTRATION.

FEDERAL REGISTRATION DOES NOT WILL NOT EXIST IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

SO I MEAN, AS MUCH AS I ENJOY THE EVERY TOWN TALKING POINTS, PLEASE GET FACTS STRAIGHT INIS IT EVIDENCE DISTORTING THE TRUTH.

>> MAY I RESPOND?

>> PLEASE.

THANK YOU.

A LOT OF WHAT CHRIS BROUGHT UP, I'M GOING TO CHARACTERIZE AS CONSEQUENCES.

THERE IS LEGAL CONSEQUENCES.

MENTAL CONSEQUENCES.

EMOTIONAL CONSEQUENCES.

HE IS RIGHT.

THAT IF YOU PLAN TO ACQUIRE WEAPON, AND YOU PLAN TO CARRY IT, WITH THE IDEA THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE TO NOT JUST BRANDISH IT, NOT JUST HOLD IT, NOT JUST REFER TO IT, POINT IT AT A PERSON AND DO WHAT IT IS MEANT TO DO.

TAKE A LIFE.

THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

BUT, WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO MAKE EVERYBODY GET SOME SORT OF TRAINING BEFORE THEY CAN EXERCISE THEIR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, YOU STATE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO SAY, IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD BE IN.

WITH MR. HELLER THE FACT THAT HE HAD A WEAPON IN HIS HOUSE AND NOW ABLE TO HAVE IT IN HIS HOUSE, AND BY HIS BEDSIDE AND NOT DISASSEMBLED, UNARMED.

MEANT IF SOMEBODY BROKE INTO HIS HOUSE, HE WAS GOING TO PREPARED TO USE IT AND IN SELF‑DEFENSE AND DO WHAT THE MEANT TO DO.

KILL SOMEBODY.

WAS THERE SOME REQUIREMENT IN D.C. THAT HAD GONE THROUGH SOME TRAINING THAT THEY TELL HIM WHEN HE GETS IT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU REALLY MAKE USE OF THIS, YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT THAT.

IS IT SOMETHING EVERYBODY SHOULD TO?

ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT LEVEL OF HOOPS THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO SET UP SO THAT SOME BUREAUCRAT FEELS OKAY, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO RUN INTO SOME DIFFICULTIES.

WITH REGARD TO SECOND ASPECT, THINK THERE IS A LACK OF FAITH WITH REGARD NOT HAWAIIAN PEOPLE.

THAT IF ALL OF A SUDDEN, JUNE 1, 2022, EVERYBODY WHO IS A FIREARM OWNER WHICH BY THE WAY, I THINK SOME OF THE PEOPLE HERE ARE SAYING WE HAVE A VERY LOW FIREARM OWNERSHIP HERE.

COMPARED TO SAY MONTANA OR ARIZONA OR TEXAS.

WHAT HAVE YOU.

SHOULDN'T BE THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM.

I ALSO THINK THAT JUST BECAUSE ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE CAN SUDDENLY CARRY A WEAPON, DOESN'T MEAN SOMEONE FAILS TO USE TURN SIGNAL ON THE H‑1.

GOING TO BECOME THE WILD, WILD WEST.

FOR THOSE PEOPLE CAN'T CONSTRAIN THEMSELVES, YOU CUT ME OFF AND MAKE REFERENCE YOU'RE CARRYING A WEAPON, THAT'S PROBABLY A CRIME.

IF YOU PULL THE WEAPON AND YOU POINT IT AT HIM, DEFINITELY A CRIME.

IF YOU SHOOT IT AT HIM, YES, CONSEQUENCE THE MERE ACT OF CARRYING THE BEARING PART OF THE RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHOULD NOT BE SUBJECT TO THE KIND OF SUFFOCATION THAT HAWAII AND NEW YORK HAS PLACED.

>>Yunji: ONLY ABOUT FIVE MINUTE LEFT.

I WANT IT MAKE SURE THAT WE GET TO EACH OF YOU.

TO GET SORT OF A CLOSING THOUGHT.

DOUG, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THIS ONE FROM THE BIG ISLAND SAID, WOULD SOMEONE LESS OF COMMITTING A CRIME IF MORE PEOPLE HAD BEENS?

COULD THIS EVER SERVE AS A DETERRENT IF WE KNOW THAT OTHERS ARE ARMED?

>> I JUST DON'T FEEL THAT WAY.

I MEAN, SO I MEAN, I GET IT.

I MEAN, I THINK I HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I'LL FEEL MORE SAFE.

IF I KNOW PEOPLE ARE WALKING AROUND.

ACTUALLY THINKING ABOUT CHRIS' EXAMPLE OF PROTESTS HAPPENED HERE.

THE FACT THAT ON THE MAINLAND, OFTENTIMES, THE USE OF FIREARM OR DISPLAY OF WEAPON OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ACTUALLY IS USED AS INTIMIDATION FACTOR.

IF I'M AN EVENT, LARGE PUBLIC EVENT, I SAW SOMEONE OR KNEW THAT WILL WERE PEOPLE OUT THERE POTENTIALLY CARRYING A FIREARM, I GUESS WHAT I, THIS WORLD, THAT I'M HEARING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, I GUESS I SHOULD BE THINKING.

GIFTOFALOHA, THAT PERSON IS PROTECTING THEMSELVES.

I GUESS THAT MAKES ALL OF US FEEL SAFER.

I'M NOT THERE YET.

BEEN 55 YEARS FOR ME.

DON'T THINK THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE.

>>Yunji: I HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.

>> I FEEL DIFFERENTLY.

I'M GOING TO BE INTIMIDATED.

>>Yunji: HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF.

MAKE SURE WE GET TO EACH PERSON.

ONLY 30 SECONDS.

AS WE HEAD INTO THIS, WHAT IS YOUR CLOSING THOUGHT FOR OUR AUDIENCE TONIGHT?

WHAT SHOULD WE BE LOOKING AT?

>> I THINK IT'S RIGHT TO FEAR THE WILD WEST.

AND I THINK IT'S WRONG TO THINK THAT YOU JUST DEFEND YOURSELF BY SHOOTING COMING INTO THE DOOR.

YOU'RE SUPPOSED RETREAT IF YOU CAN.

NOT SUPPOSED TO TURN INTO I GUN FIGHT.

REASONS FOR THAT.

ONE REASONS PEOPLE TRYING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, ADRENALINE IS PUMPING, NOT VERY GOOD SHOTS.

EVEN POLICE HAVE THAT PROBLEM.

BUT CERTAINLY, PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE THE TRAINING, WHICH KEVIN DOESN'T WANT THEM TO BE MANDATED TO HAVE, IT'S A DANGER.

>>Yunji: KEVIN?

>> VERY HOPEFUL AND I BELIEVE THAT WHEN THE U.S. SUPREME COURT GIVES US SOME FRAMEWORK NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE GOING TO SET A COUPLE THINGS STRAIGHT.

THAT IS FIRST, BURDEN IS ON THE GOVERNMENT TO SHOW THAT WHATEVER RESTRICTIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE IS VERY NARROW TAILORED.

FALL BY THE WAYSIDE, LAWSUITS COME AFTER THAT LEGISLATURE NEEDS TO TAKE A MORE NUANCED APPROACH.

SO EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THE WAY THEY ENVISIONED, ROBUST RIGHT OF CHOICE AND FREEDOM TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

>> KAINOA?

>> I THINK THAT THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING ALREADY.

WE HAVE 15 STATE CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY.

22 PERMIT CARRY.

DATA SHOWN MORE GUNS DO EQUAL LESS CRIME UNFORTUNATELY THING WITH SOCIAL MEDIA AND ESPECIALLY WITH THIS PANDEMIC, IS HOW MUCH IT HAS DIVIDED US AND FURTHER ENTRENCHED US IN OUR BUBBLE.

>> DON'T HANG OUT WITH PEOPLE ON OTHER SIDE.

HAWAII RIFLE ASSOCIATION AND LESSONS EDUCATION REPEATEDLY SENT OUT INVITED TO PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE, INCLUDING LEGISLATORS, AND NEWSCASTERS TO COME AND MEET THE PEOPLE, THAT THEY ARE ACTUALLY ADVOCATING AGAINST, WE HAVE GOTTEN VERY MINIMAL FEEDBACK.

AND PARTICIPATION.

AND THE INVITE IS ALWAYS OPEN TO MY FRIENDS DOUG AND CHRIS AND AVI TO JOIN US AT THE RANGE AND MEET THE PEOPLE WHO SPEND THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY AND THEIR VALUABLE TIME LEARNING HOW TO USE FIREARMS RESPONSIBLY AND EFFECTIVELY.

TO PROTECT THEM AND OTHERS.

>>Yunji: CHRIS WE HAVE JUST UNDER A MINUTE LEFT.

I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

>> TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TWO OTHER VETERANS BESIDE ME ON THIS PANEL.

EVERYTHING I LEARNED ABOUT FIREARM CULTURE COMES FROM MILITARY EXPERIENCE.

IN THE MILITARY, FIREARMS CULTURE BUILT ON THREE PILLARS.

TRAINING, SAFETY, AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

THAT TOUCHES REALLY EVERYTHING WE TALKED ABOUT TODAY.

ESPECIALLY THE ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE.

I BELIEVE THAT IF OUR GUN LAWS LOOKED MORE LIKE WHAT THE WAY THE MILITARY OVER SEES THE WAY THAT THEY USE WEAPONS, AND MAINTAINS OVERSIGHT WHO CAN POSSESS A GUN, WHY AND WHERE, THEN TRAINING, TRAINING SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY SHOWING UP IN OUR CIVILIAN GUN LAWS WOULD MEAN WE'D HAVE A LOT LESS GUN DEATHS IN THIS COUNTRY INTO MAHALO FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS – CHRIS MARVIN FROM EVERYTOWN FOR GUN SAFETY, AND KAINOA KAKU, PRESIDENT OF THE HAWAII RIFLE ASSOCIATION, AND DOUG CHIN, DIRECTOR AT STARN O’TOOLE MARCUS AND FISHER, GUN RIGHTS ATTORNEY, KEVIN O’GRADY, AND CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR AVI SOIFER NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, OCTOBER IS BREAST CANCER AWARENESS MONTH.

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT PREVENTION, DETECTION AND TREATMENT.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M YUNJI DE NIES FOR INSIGHTS, ON PBS HAWAII, ALOHA!