IT ONLY HAPPENS EVERY TEN YEARS BUT POLITICAL REDISTRICTING PLAYS A MAJOR ROLE IN SHAPING WHO’S ELECTED AND WHICH COMMUNITIES HAVE THE MOST POWER.

WHAT’S THE PROCESS OF REAPPORTIONMENT?

WHY SHOULD WE CARE?

WHO MAKES THE DECISIONS AND CAN THE PROCESS BE ABUSED?

JOIN US AS WE DISCUSS WHY REAPPORTIONMENT MATTERS NEXT ON INSIGHTS.

REAPPORTIONMENT OR REDISTRICTING.

REDRAWING POLITICAL DISTRICTS.

DEADLINE FAST APPROACHING AND CHANGE AND DISTRICT BOUNDARIES COULD PIT INCUMBENTS AGAINST EACH OTHER.

IN NEXT YEAR'S ELECTION.

OR EVEN CREATE NEW DISTRICTS.

HOW MUCH INPUT DOES THE PUBLIC HAVE JOIN THE DISCUSSION OFF REAPPORTIONMENT.

WHYIT MATTER.

LIVE BROADCAST ON INSIGHTS HAWAII STARTS NOW.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I’M DARYL HUFF.

EVERY TEN YEARS, AFTER THE CENSUS, STATES AND COUNTIES REDRAW DISTRICT LINES TO ACCOUNT FOR SHIFTS IN POPULATION.

THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES EACH DISTRICT TO HAVE AS CLOSE TO AN EQUAL NUMBER OF VOTERS AS POSSIBLE.

ALTHOUGH EQUAL REPRESENTATION IS THE GOAL, THERE IS ALSO AN EFFORT TO KEEP NEIGHBORHOODS TOGETHER AND RESPECT NATURAL GEOGRAPHIC BOUNDARIES LIKE MOUNTAINS AND ISLANDS.

IT SOUNDS EASY, BUT MOVING A BOUNDARY JUST A FEW BLOCKS CAN SPLIT AN ESTABLISHED COMMUNITY AND UNDERMINE POLITICAL CAREERS.

WHEN POPULATION SHIFTS DRAMATICALLY, AS IT HAS ON OAHU, REAPPORTIONMENT BECOMES A MAJOR POLITICAL BATTLEFIELD.

EARLY PROPOSED MAPS HAVE ALREADY PROVOKED CONTROVERSY AND SUSPICIONS OF UNFAIR INFLUENCE AND ETHNIC DISCRIMINATION.

MEMBERS OF THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION DECLINED TO APPEAR TONIGHT.

THE PROJECT MANAGER DAVID ROSENBROCK INITIALLY ACCEPTED OUR INVITATION BUT THEN SAID HE WAS UNAVAILABLE.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL US OR CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS.

WE ALSO ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE CONVERSATION ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

NATALIA HUSSEY BURDECK IS PART OF THE CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU’S REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

SHE ALSO SERVES AS THE TREASURER FOR THE YOUNG PROGRESSIVES DEMANDING ACTION AND THE SECRETARY OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF HAWAII.

SANDY MA IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMON CAUSE HAWAII, AN ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO UPHOLDING THE CORE VALUES OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

STEVE PAVAO FROM HILO SERVED AS A MEMBER OF THE HAWAII COUNTY REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION IN 2001 AS IS CURRENTLY A MEMBER OF THE HAWAII ISLAND ADVISORY COUNCIL TO THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

COLIN MOORE IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUBLIC POLICY CENTER AT UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA.

HE IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF AMERICAN IMPERIALISM AND THE STATE: 1893 – 1921.

REREAPPORTIONMENT MART.

SEEMS REICH LIKE IT MATTERS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.

WHAT ARE CONFLICTS HAVE ARISEN OVER THIS PROCESS CITY & COUNTY LEVEL AND STATE LEVEL?

>> WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT GERRYMANDERING.

>> THE ISSUE WE CARE MOST ABOUT FOR COMMON CAUSE HAWAII PEOPLE'S VOICE GETS HEARD.

PROCESS SHOULD NOT BE USED TO DRAW LINES TO BENEFIT POLITICAL PARTY, INCUMBENT, OR TO FAVOR INDIVIDUAL, PROCESS SHOULD BE TO ENSURE THAT THE COMMUNITY IS ALLOWED TO ELECT INDIVIDUAL THAT BEST REPRESENTS THE COMMUNITY.

THE PROCESS OF REDISTRICTING IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COMMUNITY GETS HEARD AND SO THAT IS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

SO THAT IS WHY WE REDISTRICTING IS SO IMPORTANT AND PEOPLE NEED TO GET INVOLVED.

>> WE TALK A LOT ABOUT VOTING.

REDISTRICTING WHAT MAKES VOTING OFFICIALS TO REPRESENT US POSSIBLE.

>>Daryl: IMPORTANT PROCESS.

HAPPEN ONLY ONE EVERY TEN YEARS.

PEOPLE DON'T HEAR IT ABOUT IT.

LOSE TRACK.

I HEARD SOME TESTIMONY FROM SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT DISTRICT.

I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THIS PROCESS WAS.

STEVE, YOU HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH REREAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSIONS BOTH AT THE STATE LEVEL AND BIG ISLAND.

DO YOU THINK GENERALLY THEY TRY TO HANDLE IT FAIRLY HERE?

HOW THEY DO IT HERE AS MUCH A WAY IT DOESN'T GET POLITICALLY MESSED UP?

DO YOU THINK THEY'VE DONE A GOOD JOB SETTING UP A SYSTEM SHOULD BE AS APOLITICAL AS POSSIBLE?

>> I THINK BY THE NATURE, VERY NATURE, BECAUSE IT INVOLVES POLITICS, TO REMOVE POLITICS COMPLETELY, VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

THE WHAT I REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION IS SET UP, SENATE PRESIDENT APPOINTS ONE MEMBER.

SENATE, HOUSE LEADER APPOINTS ONE.

SENATE MINORITY LEADER.

SENATOR HOUSE MINORITY LEADER.

EVEN BY BASED.

REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT.

IN THE END, ALWAYS SOME POLITICAL.

EVERYBODY COMES TO THE TABLE WITH SOME POLITICAL AGENDA CONSCIOUS OR SUBCONSCIOUS.

GOOD NEWS WE DON'T HAVE THAT'S SCALE OF GERRYMANDERING SEE IN STATES ON MANNED.

>> ALWAYS SOME LEVEL OF THAT.

ONE PART MORE THAN THE OTHER.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS NECESSARILY TRUE.

ALWAYS, INOUYE FROM TODAY'S REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION AND PREVIOUS REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION MEETINGS, GENERAL PUBLIC HAS BEEN VERY UPSET ABOUT SOME DISTRICTS AND BEEN SOME OUT AND OUT ACCUSATIONS ABOUT GERRYMANDERING FOR SURE.

AND YOU KNOW, CAN WE EVER REMOVE THAT FROM THE PROCESS, I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN I WAS IN THE COUNTY REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION 2001.

WHERE MAYOR DID INTERESTING THING.

MADE EACH COUNCIL SUBMITS NAMES FROM A DISTRICT.

OFFERED NAME FROM THE DISTRICT.

PROCESS WAS FAIR.

>>Daryl: THROW THE GERRYMANDERING.

I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND IT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT IT MEANS AND EXPLAIN HOW THAT IN PARTICULAR IS ABUSED PARTICULARLY ON THE MAINLAND.

>> SURE.

GERRYMANDERING IS OLD TRADITION IN AMERICAN POLITICIAN.

GOES BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY.

TRY TO DRAW DISTRICTS MAKE IT MOST LIKELY YOUR PARTY IS DOING DO BETTER THAN THE OTHER PARTY.

YOU CAN DO THAT IN A FEW WAYS.

FUNNY NAMES.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE CALL IT STACK, CRACKING KIDNAPPING.

STACKING WHEN YOU TRY TO PUT AS MANY PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT ONE PARTY IN ONE DISTRICT.

SO EVERYONE IS TOGETHER.

IN THEORY, THAT MEANS YOU CAN ELECT YOUR PARTY MEMBERS IN THE OTHER DISTRICT.

CRACKING IS WHEN YOU TRY TO TAKE FOR EXAMPLE, CITY AND SPLIT IT UP AMONG MULTIPLE DISTRICTS.

OFTEN TACTIC REPUBLICANS USE IN CITIES ON MAINLAND.

SO YOU SPREAD OUT THOSE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AMOUNT TO THE SUBURBS.

KIDNAPPING ACTUALLY SEE A FAIR BIT IN HAWAII, I THINK, IS WHEN YOU DRAW INCUMBENT OUT OF HIS OR HER OWN DISTRICT.

DRAW THEM INTO SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT.

WE DON'T THINK I THINK DIRECTLY PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING ONE PARTY SO DOMINANT BECAUSE OF THE STRUCTURE OF OUR REAPPORTIONMENT COMMITTEE ON PURPOSE BALANCES TWO PARTIES.

WHAT I THINK YOU SEE A LOT OF PERHAPS, ANY MISCHIEF GOES ON, IT PROBABLY IS TO PROTECT CERTAIN INCUMBENTS AND TO PUNISH OTHER INCUMBENTS.

>>Daryl: WITH BOTH DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND ON HONOLULU, REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION, HOW'S IT GOING WITH HONOLULU?

THINK THEY JUST PASSED MAP YESTERDAY.

TELL ME HOW FIRM IS THAT?

HOW MUCH MORE TIME IS THERE FOR PEOPLE TO COME JUMP?

WHAT KIND OF CONFLICTS.

>> FINISHED OUR PROCESS A FEW MONTHS EARLY.

JANUARY 2 DEADLINE STREAMED LINE PROCESS WHERE WE HAD OUR ACTUALLY OUR STAFF PROPOSE THE MAPS.

WHICH IS THE DIFFERENT, MAIN DIFFERENCE I THINK BETWEEN STATE LEVEL AND THE COUNCIL LEVEL.

WE HAD THE STAFF DRAW THE LINES SO THIS IS NOT SO MUCH POLITICAL PARTISAN MANEUVERING THERE.

THEN WE HEARD TESTIMONY FROM THE PUBLIC.

AND THEN WE REVISED THAT MAP BASED ON THE TESTIMONY FROM THE PUBLIC AND IT DID PASS ON TUESDAY.

7 2 VOTE.

THAT MAP IS NOW FINALIZED AND WE'RE WORK OPTION OUR FINAL REPORT WHICH SHOULD BE COMING OUT IN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO.

>>Daryl: WHAT ARE SOME OF THE BIG CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING?

I KNOW AS I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, POPULATION HAS SHIFTED VERY DRAMATICALLY ON OAHU.

FROM THE EAST SIDE TO THE WEST SIDE.

AND WE HAVE SOME MAPS.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN SHOW THEM.

LEGISLATIVE MAP IS NOT COUNCIL MAPS.

SHOW HOW MUCH POPULATION HAS GONE UP IN THE WEST SIDE.

AND HOW IT'S BEEN SUPPRESSED ON THE EAST SIDE.

HOW DID THAT AFFECT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE CITY & COUNTY?

>> THAT'S ANOTHER MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CITY COUNCIL REDISTRICTING MAP AND STATE.

CITY COUNCIL CHARTER DOES NOT REQUIRE US TO EXTRACT NONPERMANENT RESIDENTS.

WE DIDN'T.

A LOT OF OUR BOUNDARIES STAYED LARGELY THE SAME.

WINDWARD DISTRICT ENTIRELY EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT WAS BEFORE.

MAIN CHANGE I WOULD SAY WITH THE NEW MAP IS THAT IT CHANGED THE KALIHI DISTRICTS TO BE A MORE AHUPUAPA STYLE MOUNTAIN TO OCEAN PARALLEL RUNNING PARALLEL TO ALL OTHER DISTRICTS.

BEFORE, THEY HAD BEEN KIND OF PERPENDICULAR IN A STRANGE WAY.

>>Daryl: SORT OF LIKE LINE WAS LIKE THE HIGHWAY OR SOMETHING.

WHAT IMPACT WILL THAT HAVE ON THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY LIVE IN THOSE DISTRICTS?

>> SO, A LOT OF PEOPLE SUPPORTED THIS CHANGE BECAUSE AS WE GO FURTHER INTO THE POST CLIMATE CHANGE WORLD, WE NEED REPRESENTATIVES WHO ARE GOING TO BE FOCUSED ON THE ISSUES FROM THE MOUNTAIN TO THE OCEAN.

WE NEED THEM ALL EYES ON THE SHORELINE BECAUSE THERE IS MASSIVE EROSION.

WE ALSO NEED ALL EYES ON THE WATERSHED THAT GOES INTO THE OCEAN.

SO I THINK IT'S JUST A REALLY MORE HOLISTIC WAY TO LOOK AT THE MAP AND TO GET EVERYBODY'S COOPERATION.

>>Daryl: THE OTHER BIG ISSUE THAT COMES UP MORE IN HAWAII, WHAT HAS BEEN THE REACTION OF SAY THE NATIVE HAWAIIAN OR OTHER ETHNIC COMMUNITIES TO WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE STATE LEVEL?

>> SO THE STATE HAD RELEASED ITS DRAFT MAPS PREPARED BY THE TECHNICAL GROUP WHICH IS SUBSET OF THE ENTIRE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

RECENTLY.

AND IT'S TECHNICAL GROUP, WHEN DRAFTED ITS MAP, HAD DONE A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS.

BASED ON THE POPULATION SHIFT ON OAHU.

FROM THE EAST TO THE WEST.

TREMENDOUS GROWTH ON THE WEST SIDE.

SO ONE OF INTERESTING THINGS WAS THE PROPOSED NEW DISTRICT HD HOUSE DRAFT HOUSE DISTRICT 51.

FOR HOUSE DISTRICT 51, COMBINED KAILUA AREA, WITH THE WAIMANALO AREA.

WHICH IS WHAT IT CURRENTLY IS NOW.

WITH THE PORTLOCK AREA.

SO BASICALLY SANDWICHED REALLY DISTINCT NATIVE HAWAIIAN AREA WAIMANALO, IN PARTICULAR REALLY AFFLUENT AREAS OF KAILUA AND PORTLOCK.

AND SO THE NATIVE HAWAIIAN COMMUNITY IS CONCERNED THAT THEIR DISTINCT COMMUNITY OF INTEREST WILL BE DROWNED OUT BY THESE TWO VERY AFFLUENT AREAS.

AND SO RIGHTFULLY SO.

I WOULD SAY.

SO THEY HAVE TESTIFIED FORCEFULLY AGAINST THE PROPOSED DISTRICT 51.

HOUSE DISTRICT 51.

ANOTHER INTERESTING THING THAT WAS DONE BY THIS NEW MAP RELEASED BY THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION IS PROPOSED HOUSE DISTRICT 20, I THINK PROPOSED HOUSE DISTRICT 24, COLIN CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THEY SPLIT MANOA IN HALF.

ALSO VERY INTERESTING.

SPLITTING MANOA IN HALF.

MANOA IS DISTINCT COMMUNITY.

UNIQUE NEEDS AND THEY SPLIT IT IN HALF.

IT'S NOT VERY CLEAR WHY.

THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TESTIMONY TODAY AT THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION ABOUT WHY MANOA WAS SPLIT IN HALF.

>>Daryl: HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN TECHNICALLY?

FOR EXAMPLE, I LIVE IN MAKAKILO.

MY DISTRICT GOT SPLIT IN HALF TEN YEARS AGO.

MY REPRESENTATIVE LIVES IN ANOTHER NEIGHBORHOOD.

WHAT IS THE TECHNICAL PROCESS THAT YOU GO THROUGH AND THEN WHAT IS THE POLITICAL OR POLICY PROCESS YOU GO THROUGH TO FIX, TECHNICAL PROCESS GENERATED?

>> IT IS A CHALLENGING PROCESS.

2001, WHEN I WAS IN THE COUNTY REAPPORTION COMMISSION, SAME PROCESS.

DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME TECHNOLOGY.

WORKING WITH THE ELECTION OFFICE STAFF, LOOK AT THE DISPARITY YOU HAVE AND PERCENTAGE.

THIS DISTRICT HAS TOO MANY.

NEXT DISTRICT TOO LITTLE.

MOVE THE BOUNDARIES.

>> YOU HAVE TO MOVE BY CENSUS BLOCKS.

>> NOT BY CENSUS TRACTION BUT BY CENSUS BLOCKS.

NOW, GOT TOO MANY.

NEXT DISTRICT HAS TOO LITTLE.

WAIMANALO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

GOES AGAINST RULES THAT THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

HAS AND UNWRITTEN UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU WOULDN'T CREATE DISTRICTS THAT WERE SEPARATED BY MOUNTAIN RANGES LIKE THE KO'OLAU.

WAIMANALO AND PORTLOCK IN MY MIND COMPLETELY SEPARATED.

COMMUNITIES ARE SO DIFFERENT, I MEAN, KAILUA AND WAIMANALO PROBABLY ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME.

MORE LIKE.

KANEOHE THAN PORTLOCK WOULD BE.

ALL IN THE SAME SIDE OF THE KO'OLAU.

>>Daryl: YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ABSOLUTELY THE MOST INTERESTED IN THIS ARE THE INCUMBENTS.

PEOPLE IN OFFICE.

THINK THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO THAT OFFICE REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS.

I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE IN THIS OFFICE REGARDLESS IF THERE'S NOT ENOUGH VOTERS TO ELECT A PERSON.

WHAT HAPPENS THERE IN TERMS OF INCUMBENT?

WHAT STARTS IS TO HAPPEN, WHEN ARE SOME.

THINGS INCUMBENTS ARE WATCHING FOR?

>> OF COURSE, THEY'RE MOST INTERESTED IN STILL LIVING IN THE DISTRICT.

THEY THOUGHT THEY REPRESENTED.

S THAT CAN CREATE A REAL PROBLEM.

WE SAW A NUMBER OF CASE THESE PROPOSED MAPS WHERE INCUMBENTS NO LONGER LIVE IN THEIR DISTRICT.

ADRIAN TAM REPRESENTS WAIKIKI.

HE DOESN'T LIVE IN THE CURRENT DISTRICT.

THAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT.

THAT IS A REAL PROBLEM.

ALSO A PROBLEM BECAUSE ONE THING INCUMBENTS NEVER WANT TO DO IS RUN AGAINST ANOTHER INCUMBENT.

THAT MEANS THEY WOULD BE FORCED INTO THAT SITUATION.

ALSO HAVE A SITUATION WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED IN DISTRICT 19, WHICH IS WAIALAE KAHALA.

BERT KOBAYASHI DISTRICT.

THAT WAS THE DISTRICT I THINK THAT WAS MORE OR LESS REMOVED TO CREATE NEW DISTRICT ON THE WEST SIDE.

WHICH MEANS THAT THAT OLD DISTRICT 19 NOW IS SPLIT INTO A BUNCH OF OTHER EAST OAHU DISTRICTS WHICH IS WHY YOU GET THIS, REALLY ODD SHAPES WITH THOSE EAST OAHU DISTRICTS THAT NOW USED TO BE PRETTY COMPACT.

SANDY MENTIONED MANOA.

I ALWAYS THOUGHT I LIVED IN MANOA.

MY OWN HOUSE WAS DRAWN OUT OF THAT DISTRICTS.

EVEN I DON'T LIVE THERE ANY MORE.

RESULT OF THESE NEW LINES.

DISTRICT EXTENDS DOWN TO CAPTURE DISTRICT 19, SO I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE FRUSTRATED BY THIS.

I'M SURE NOBODY MORE THAN REPRESENTATIVE BERT KOBAYASHI.

I DON'T HAVE A DISTRICT ANY MORE.

>>Daryl: ACCUSED COMMISSION GERRYMANDERING HIM AWAY.

>> HE DID.

>>Daryl: CITY SIDE, YOU SAY YOU DIDN'T REALLY HAVE TO MOVE THINGS TOO MUCH.

YOU ACTUALLY FEEL LIKE YOU IMPROVED AT LEAST ONE DISTRICT.

THERE WAS A CONTROVERSY ABOUT PEOPLE MOVED INTO A DISTRICT WHERE THEY MAY HAVE VOTED 2 YEARS AGO OR FOUR YEARS AGO FOR REPRESENTATIVE.

IN A DISTRICT NOT GOING HAVE TO ANOTHER CHANCE TO VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE ELSEWHERE.

WHY IS IT AFTER REAPPORTIONMENT.

DON'T MAKE EVERYBODY RUN FOR ELECTION IN PARTICULAR DISTRICT.

CURIOUS QUESTION THAT ALL OF THE COMMISSIONERS WONDERING.

WHY DOES THE CHARTER OUTLAY THAT WAY, STAGGERED DISTRICT NOT EVERYBODY HAD A LEVEL.

SENATORS ALL UP RE ELECTION ON REAPPORTIONMENT YEARS.

POINT OF CONTENTION.

WE ENDED UP MAKING RECOMMENDATION TO THE CHARTER COMMISSION TO WORK ON THAT.

AND TO FIX IT FOR NEXT TIME.

>>Daryl: I WAS REMEMBERING REAPPORTIONMENT YEARS, WHOLE SENATE HAS TO RUN FOR RE ELECTION.

I'M SURE THEY HATE.

GOT A QUESTION HERE.

THIS GETTING PRETTY SPECIFIC.

THIS IS ISSUE BROUGHT UP BY DONNA STERLING HAWAIIAN HOMESTEADER SAYS MOKU IN THE, I THINK NORTH SHORE OF MAUI, IS SPLIT.

ARE YOU SEEING NEIGHBOR ISLANDS, WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS ARE WE JUMPING INTO IN THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS?

>> SO FOR THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS, WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED THAT MANY COMPLAINTS OR CONCERNS FROM NEIGHBOR ISLANDS.

WE DID SEE FOR ON THE BIG ISLAND, SENATE DISTRICTS BEING REDRAWN SO THAT SENATORS INOUYE AND ACASIO, IF THEY REMAIN AND DO NOT MOVE, WHERE THEY ARE, WILL FACE EACH OTHER IN THE PRIMARY ELECTION.

SO I FORGET WHEN I DISTRICT THAT.

1 AND 4.

BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE ISSUE.

REDISTRICTING PROCESS IS NOT FOR INCUMBENT.

NOT FOR A PARTICULAR PARTY.

REDISTRICTING IS TO REDRAW THE LINES TO HAVE EQUAL REPRESENTATION FOR WHERE PEOPLE HAVE MOVED AND IN A STATE.

SO IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE.

IT'S FOR PEOPLE TO DRAW THE LINES SO THAT PEOPLE COULD BE ABLE TO REPRESENT, TO ELECT REPRESENTATIVES OF THEIR CHOICE.

IT IS NOT FOR INCUMBENTS.

IT IS NOT FOR INCUMBENTS TO STAY IN OFFICE.

SO THAT IS WHERE COMMON CAUSE GETS REALLY IRRITATED THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS BELIEVE THAT THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS IS FOR THEM.

IT IS NOT.

IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE.

>>Daryl: AS A MEMBER, YOU WERE APPOINTED BY WHOM WHEN YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE COMMISSION?

ON THE BIG ISLAND?

THE MAYOR, RIGHT?

>> WHEN I WAS ON THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION FOR THE HAWAII COUNTY BY MAYOR.

NOW, I'M ON THE HAWAII ISLAND ADVISORY COMMISSION APPOINTED BY THE SENATE PRESIDENT.

>>Daryl: SO THE REASON I ASK THAT IS WAS WHEN YOU'RE ON A COMMISSION, AND YOU'RE APPOINTED BY PARTICULAR POLITICIAN AND YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING THAT POLITICIANS FRIEND, DO YOU GET A CALL?

>> NO.

THE WAY THE MAYOR AT THAT TIME, WAS HARRY KIM BACK THEN.

WHEN THE MAYOR ASKED EACH COUNCILMEMBER OF DISTRICT, SO THE COUNCILMEMBER FROM MY DISTRICT ASKED ME IF I WAS WILLING TO SERVE.

AS I SAID EARLIER, IRONICALLY, ENDED UP THAT ALL OF THE COMMISSIONERS WERE THE PARTY OF THE SAME PARTY THAT THE COUNCILMEMBER IN THEIR DISTRICT WAS.

THAT'S THE WAY THE MAYOR ASKED THE COUNCILMEMBERS FROM EACH DISTRICTS TO POINT.

COUNCILMEMBERS CAME TO PUBLIC HEARING.

OFFERED THEIR TESTIMONY.

NO CONVERSATION OUTSIDE OF THE COMMISSION'S MEETING.

NO NOBODY CALLED ME.

NOBODY ASKED ME ANY FAVORS.

MOVES DISTRICTS.

>> CAME TO PUBLIC HEARING.

OFFERED OPINIONS.

>>Daryl: DID YOU GET A SENSE THAT THERE WAS SOME OF THAT GOING ON?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

SOME ALLEGATIONS THROWN AROUND.

MORE IN THE SENSE THAT A LOT OF TESTIFIERS WE GET NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD CHAIRS AND SOPHISTICATED POLITICAL OPERATIVES.

ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE THESE VOLUNTEERS.

GIVING TIME AND RESOURCES.

>> POWERING HEARTS INTO MAPS MAKING FOR THEIR COMMUNITY.

SHOWING YOU, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED.

OUR DEMOCRACY ONLY WORKS WHEN EVERYBODY PARTICIPATES.

>>Daryl: YOU KNOW, COLIN, SANDY BRINGS UP GOOD APPOINTMENT THERE'S NATURAL INCLINATION TO SUSPECT SOMETHING IS UP WHEN YOU GET GOURD BY A PROCESS.

PETER IN HAWAII KAI.

WAS DISTRICT 17 REDUCED SO RADICALLY?

I DON'T KNOW WHERE 17 IS.

>> 17 HAWAII KAI DISTRICT THAT USED TO INCLUDE PORTLOCK.

NOW PORTLOCK ADDED TO 51.

I DON'T KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHY THAT WAS.

I MEAN, I THINK THE 17 51 ISSUE IS A LITTLE STRANGE.

BUT YOU KNOW, POLITICS OF COURSE IS PART OF THIS SUPPOSE WHETHER WE LIKE IT NOT.

AND SO I'M SURE THERE IS A STORY BEHIND THAT.

IT'S NOT ALL POLITICAL.

I MEAN, I THINK WHAT THE OTHER FOLKS HAVE SAID, IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

NUMBERS HAVE TO WORK OUT.

THE GOAL THIS TIME WAS TO GET ABOUT 28,000 PEOPLE PER HOUSE DISTRICT.

THEY CAN, THAT CAN VARY BY ABOUT 10%.

BUT THAT IS A REAL CHALLENGE TO DRAW THESE LINES ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MOVE A WHOLE DISTRICTS.

LIKE THEY WERE ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST SIDE.

TRY TO KEEP SOME.

BOUNDARIES STABLE.

I THINK THAT WAS CENTRAL CHALLENGE THEY WERE WORKING WITH.

I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE THAT POLITICS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

>> EVERYONE WAS APPOINTED WAS APPOINTED BY VERY SAVVY POLITICAL FOLKS AND I THINK THAT THERE CERTAINLY WERE SOME POLITICAL DECISIONS THAT WENT INTO THIS.

I THINK FAR LESS THAN A LOT OF STATES ON MAINLAND.

I THINK OVERALL, OUR PROCESS HAS A LOT OF INTEGRITY.

IT DOESN'T MEAN POLITICS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

I THINK PARTICULARLY, IN THOSE CASES, WE SAW SOME SUSPICIOUS ACTIONS WHERE SOME INCUMBENTS WERE DRAWN TOGETHER IN THE SAME DISTRICT.

>>Daryl: LET ME TALK, ASK YOU THIS QUESTION.

THIS GETS LITTLE MORE TECHNICAL.

WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THIS BALANCING ACT OF GETTING CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN A DISTRICT, AND YOU COME UP WITH THIS THING.

LET'S SAY THOSE VOTERS THERE IN PORTLOCK, REALLY SPECIFIC, MIGHT BE ONE MORE REPUBLICAN PARTS OF CITY.

HAWAII KAI, IS ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE ONE OF THE FEW PLACES YOU'VE GOT REPUBLICAN LEGISLATOR.

NOW, IF I WERE HIM, I MIGHT BE LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

IS THERE AN EFFORT TO AT LEAST GENERAL TERM, KEEP REPUBLICAN VOTING AREA REPUBLICAN OR AT LEAST NOT STEAL VOTERS FROM THAT REPUBLICAN INCUMBENT, AND VICE VERSA WITH DEMOCRATS?

IS THAT A CONSIDERATION?

>> I THINK IT'S ABSOLUTELY A CONSIDERATION.

FOR OUR COMMISSION.

IT BALANCED BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATIC PARTY RULES THE STATE.

REPUBLICANS DO HAVE I LITTLE BIT OF POWER HERE.

ONE THING THEY WOULD WANT TO PROTECT THE REPUBLICAN DISTRICTS THAT THEY DO HAVE.

SO IN SOME WAYS, IF YOU WANT TO BE VERY CYNICAL, YOU COULD SORT OF CALL THIS INCUMBENCY PROTECTION RACKET.

IDEA IS TO REALLY PROTECT THOSE INCUMBENTS WHO HAVE STABLE DISTRICTS.

I DON'T THAT'S AN EXAGGERATION.

I DON'T MEAN TO GO THAT FAR.

BUT I THINK MIGHT HAVE PERSPECTIVE.

>>Daryl: YOU MAY BE SAYING YOU'RE EXAGGERATING.

>> EXACTLY GOING ON.

GOOD EXAMPLE EARLIER, SENATE DISTRICTS.

BIG ISLAND, PART OF THE LAWSUIT WE HAD TEN YEARS AGO.

WENT TO THE STATE SUPREME COURT.

MILITARY TO BE EXTRACTED TO THE REAL NUMBER.

SHOULD BE EXTRACTED SO IN TURN BIG ISLAND WOULD END UP WITH FOURTH SENATE SEAT.

WHAT HAPPENED NOW, BECAUSE GROWTH AND WEST HAWAII, FIRST SENATE DISTRICT ENCOMPASSES MORE OF NORTH KONA AND LESS OF NORTH HILO.

WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING NOW YOU CREATE DISTRICT THAT HAS SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF REPUBLICAN VOTES KONA, WAIMEA WAIKALOA NO INCUMBENT NOW.

BECAUSE BY DOING THAT, FORCE TWO DEMOCRATIC INCUMBENTS INTO ONE DISTRICT IN HILO.

TO ME, YOU COULD SENSE THAT MAYBE SOME OF THAT WAS MOTIVATED POLITICALLY.

>>Daryl: THE CITY COUNTY NONPARTISAN.

THE COMMISSION CHAIR WAS A REPUBLICAN AND DID YOU SEE PARTISAN ISSUES CREEPING?

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT PROCESS?

>> I DID WANT TO CLARIFY.

THE PREVIOUS QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED ME, I CAN ONLY ATTEST TO HONOLULU CITY COUNCIL LEVEL.

WE DID NOT MAKE ANY PERMITTED INTERACT GROUPS.

ALL DISCUSSIONS HAPPENED IN BROAD DAYLIGHT OF THE SUNSHINE LAW.

PUBLIC INPUT AND TESTIMONY.

THE STATE LEVEL HAS PERMITTED INTERACTION GROUPS AND ON THE COUNTY LEVEL,.

>>Daryl: DESCRIBE WHAT THAT IS.

>> PERMITTED INTERACTION GROUP IS WHEN YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE SUNSHINE LAW, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS BEHIND CLOSED DOOR.

>> IT HAS TO BE AT A PUBLIC HEARING WHERE THE PUBLIC CAN WEIGH IN.

>>Daryl: I'M SURE THEY NEVER DO.

>> IF YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE SUNSHINE LAW, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO MAKE PERMITTED INTERACTION GROUPS, GET INTO THE WEEDS IN PRIVATE AND SHOW THE PUBLIC WHAT YOU'VE DONE.

SO WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE ON THE COUNCIL LEVEL.

DIDN'T KNOW WHERE ANY OF THE INCUMBENTS LIVED.

>> WILL SAY IT DOES RAISE QUESTIONS WHEN THE ON THE STATE LEVEL, THEY DO KNOW WHERE THE INCUMBENTS LIVE AND THEY ARE I CAN MAKING DECISIONS BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

>>Daryl: HOW DID YOU KNOW WHERE THE INCUMBENT LIVE.

>> WE DON'T KNOW THEIR ADDRESSES.

ONE LIVES WINDWARD SIDE.

ONE ON THE NORTH SHORE.

WHEN WE DRAW THE LINES WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY LIVE.

>>Daryl: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

I'M FRANKLY KIND OF SURPRISED AND I DON'T MEAN TO SUGGEST YOU MIGHT BE NAIVE OR SOMETHING, BUT I'M WONDERING, FROM MY EXPERIENCE OCCASIONALLY COVERING REAPPORTIONMENT, YOU DRAW LINES.

FIRST PEOPLE THAT ARE AFFECTED ARE AND MOST SENSITIVE INCUMBENT POLITICIAN.

COMMISSIONERS AT THE STATE LEVEL ARE APPOINTED BY POLITICIANS.

AND I KNOW YOU SAID INCUMBENT PROTECTION PLAN.

BUT IS IT MORE OF A, DO YOU SEE IT BEING USINGED AS A HAMMER AS WELL AS A ALMOST LIKE AN ACCIDENTAL PROCESS?

>> I THINK IT CAN BE.

I MEAN, NOT ALL INCUMBENTS DESERVE PROTECTION.

I THINK.

AT LEAST ACCORDING TO THE FOLKS WHO ARE APPOINTING THESE MEMBERS.

YOU SAW SOME INCUMBENTS WHETHER IT WAS ON PURPOSE OR NOT, I MEAN, I CAN'T SAY BUT CLEARLY, WERE PUNISHED.

YOU KNOW, CITY & COUNTY DISTRICTS I THINK REALLY ARE ACTUALLY VERY BEAUTIFUL AND FAIR.

AND THAT IN PART IS BECAUSE THERE ARE MUCH BIGGER.

A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO DRAW JUST THOSE BIG DISTRICTS.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE AS MANY TOUGH DECISIONS.

BUT I THOUGHT THEY DID A SPECTACULAR JOB.

DON'T REALLY SEE AS MUCH POLITICAL INFLUENCE THERE AS I SEE POTENTIALLY IN THE STATE HOUSE DISTRICTS.

>>Daryl: LET ME SOCIAL DISTANCE.

LET ME ASK TO BE MORE SPECIFIC.

HOW WOULD A SITTING POLITICIAN PUNISH SOMEONE THROUGH THE REAPPORTIONMENT PROCESS?

>> EASIEST WAY TO DRAW TWO INCUMBENTS IN THE SAME DISTRICT.

EXTEND DISTRICT LINES A LITTLE BIT.

IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT.

COMPETING AGAINST INCUMBENT WHO HAS MOST OF HIS OR TRADITIONAL DISTRICT AND SO THEY'RE REALLY LIKE THEY'RE A CHALLENGE PEOPLE DISTRICT NOT GOING TO KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND RUNNING AGAINST INCUMBENT.

IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO WIN RE ELECTION.

EITHER HAVE TO MOVE WHICH ISN'T ALWAYS THAT EASY, OR TO FACE INCUMBENT.

SO I THINK IF YOU WERE I TRYING TO PUNISH SOMEONE, DRAW THEM JUST A LITTLE BIT SO THEY DON'T CAPTURE MUCH OF THEIR OLD DISTRICT INTO THE NEW DISTRICT.

SO FORCED TO RUN AGAINST INCUMBENT.

>>Daryl: STEVE, PHYSICALLY, OR MATHEMATICALLY, YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH CENSUS DISTRICTS.

IT'S NOT LIKE YOU COULD JUST SAY, LET'S MOVE THIS LINE A BLOCK.

IT'S LARGER THAN THAT.

RIGHT?

HOW BIG IS CENSUS BLOCK?

>> CENSUS BLOCKS ARE NOT THAT BIG.

WE THINK OF CENSUS TRACTION AS LARGE TRACK OF LAND.

CENSUS BLOCKS ARE PRETTY SMALL.

VARY IN NUMBER OF HOMES IN EACH CENSUS TRACK.

CENSUS BLOCK.

YOU HAVE TO MOVE BLOCK AT A TIME.

CANNOT SPLIT BLOCKS.

YOU HAVE TO MOVE ENTIRE BLOCK.

I MEAN, COLIN IS SAYING IS TRUE.

I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN.

IN THE PAST.

IT REAPPORTIONMENT PEOPLE HAVE DONE THAT.

AS I SAID EARLIER, HAPPENING NOW THIS ON THE BIG ISLAND WITH SENATE DISTRICT 1 AND 4.

LINES HAVE BEEN MOVED ENOUGH, THAT THE TWO SENATORS AND TWO DIFFERENT DISTRICTS IN ONE DISTRICT AND CREATED NEW OPEN DISTRICT WITH NO INCUMBENT.

>>Daryl: YOU SAID VERY CLEARLY VERY STRONGLY, THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE INCUMBENT.

THIS IS ABOUT GIVING THE PUBLIC ACCESS AS A GROUP, NEIGHBORHOODS OPPORTUNITY TO FIND SOMEONE THAT FITS THEIR REPRESENTS THEM.

>> CORRECT.

>>Daryl: WHERE IN THAT AREA DO YOU THINK THERE IS PROBLEMS WITH THE MAPS THAT WE'VE HEARD ABOUT?

I HEARD STORY I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THERE WAS A HOUSING AREA PUBLIC HOUSING, IT'S A BIG PUBLIC HOUSING AREA.

PUBLIC HOUSING PROJECT.

I KNOW NO ONE LIKE TO CALL IT PROJECT.

YOU GOT BROKEN THREE PIECE PUT IN THREE SEPARATE DISTRICTS.

WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF THAT?

>> WE WERE TOLD THAT KAMEHAMEHA HOMES A LARGE HOUSING PUBLIC HOUSING IS SPLIT ALONG THREE DISTRICTS.

HOUSE DISTRICTS.

26, 27 AND 29.

WE ALL KNOW PUBLIC HOUSING HAS UNIQUE NEEDS.

THEY HAVE UNIQUE EDUCATIONAL NEEDS.

UNIQUE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

UNIQUE HEALTH NEEDS.

AND WE RECENTLY BEEN INFORMED PEOPLE IN PUBLIC HOUSING GOT HAVE BROADBAND ACCESS YET.

CAN'T EVEN PARTICIPATE IN THESE REDISTRICTING REAPPORTION DISCUSSIONS BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS ON ZOOM.

SO HOW CAN THEY EVEN ACCESS TO VOICE THEIR CONCERNS?

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK THIS WAY.

FROM A PHYSICAL STANDPOINT, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE VOICE OF A NEIGHBORHOOD LIKE THAT WHEN IT'S BROKEN INTO THREE SEPARATE DISTRICTS?

>> HOW ARE THEY GOING TO ORGANIZE TO MAKE THEIR CONCERNS HEARD IF THEY HAVE TO GO AND LOBBY DIFFERENT LEGISLATORS, DIFFERENT REPRESENTATIVES, TO TRY TO GET THEIR COMMUNITIES CONCERNS SOLVED?

IT'S HARD ENOUGH TO LIVE DAY TO DAY, BUT HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GO FIND THREE DIFFERENT REPRESENTATIVES TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.

THEY'RE JUST GOING TO POSSIBLY GET SHUNTED OFF TO THREE DEFENSIVE REPRESENTATIVES.

GET SHUNTED OFF.

>>Daryl: MORE FROM YOUR PLACE WORKING IN THE PROGRESSIVE WAY OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IMAGINE YOU'RE SEEING IT PRACTICAL POINT OF VIEW.

BROKEN UP 3 DIFFERENT DISTRICT IS NOT GOING TO BE A LOT OF VOTERS IN ANY ONE OF THESE DISTRICTS.

UNDER REPRESENTED IN THREE DISTRICTS INSTEAD OF SOLID REPPED IN SINGLE DIRECT.

IS THAT THE CONCERN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP THE PARTISAN PROGRESSIVE NATURE, IT IS NOTABLE THAT OF ALL OF THE INCUMBENTS WHO IS BEEN PAIRED TOGETHER, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM ARE MEMBERS OF THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>>Daryl: KEEP GOING WITH THAT WHO ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> SO THERE IS, IT'S OFFICIALLY FORMED CAUCUS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

WE'VE GOT THE WOMEN'S CAUCUS.

HAWAIIAN CAUCUS, PHILIPPINE CAUCUS.

PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS LAST YEAR.

PART OF I THINK IT WAS TEN INCUMBENTS WHO HAVE BEEN PAIRED TOGETHER I THINK NINE OF THEM ARE MEMBERS OF THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS.

>>Daryl: SO YOU'RE NOT SAYING THIS OUT LOUD.

YOU'RE SAYING THE MATH WOULD INDICATE THAT IF SOMEONE IS MANIPULATING THE SYSTEM, THEY'RE TRYING TO REDUCE THE PROGRESSIVE VOICE IN THE LEGISLATURE?

>> ONE MIGHT INFER THESE THINGS BASED ON THE FACT THESE DISCUSSIONS ARE NOT HAPPENING OUT IN THE FRONT, HAPPENING IN PERMITTED INTERACTION GROUP.

WHAT YOU SEE COMING OUT OF THOSE GROUPS HAVE CURIOUS PANHANDLES.

QUESTIONABLE BOUNDARIES.

NOT STRAIGHT LINES.

NOT CONTIGUOUS.

NOT WHAT THE COMMUNITIES WANT.

I THINK EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT TESTIMONIES THAT I HEARD TODAY WERE IN STRONG OPPOSITION TO THE PROPOSED MAPS.

>>Daryl: SO IS THERE A BENIGN EXPLANATION FOR THAT?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THERE COULD BE BENIGN EXPLANATION FOR ONE OR TWO CASES.

I THINK WE SEE A FEW TOO MANY CASES FOR IT TO BE BENIGN.

SO I THINK THERE IS CLEARLY SOME EFFORT TO, I MEAN, GIVEN THEY HAD TO MAKE SOME CHOICES, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY MADE SOME OF THOSE CHOICES, THEY CLEARLY I THINK, WENT AFTER SOME OF THE INCUMBENTS WHO ARE NOT FAVORED BY THE LEADERSHIP.

YOU KNOW, I WANT TO POINT OUT SINCE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, THIS ISN'T THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN DO THIS.

>> THERE ARE STATES THAT DO IT DIFFERENTLY.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE EXAMPLES, ACTUALLY COMES FROM IOWA.

THE WAY THEY DO IT IN IOWA, IS THEY REMOVE ALL OF THE POLITICAL VARIABLES.

STAFF AND STAFF DESIGNED SYSTEM, ISN'T ALLOWED TO KNOW WHERE INCUMBENTS LIVE.

THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO KNOW HOW MANY REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ARE IN EACH DISTRICT.

THEY'RE NOT POLITICIANS.

SO THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY PAYING ATTENTION TO WHERE INCUMBENTS LIVE.

THEN THEY JUST DRAW THE LINES ACCORDING TO WE USE TERM COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST.

WHICH IS JUST FANCY WAY OF SAYING, AREAS THAT SEEMED TO HAVE SIMILAR QUALITIES.

GEOGRAPHIC BOUNDARIES.

>> VERY SIMILAR I THINK TO THE SPIRIT OF HOW THEY DRAW, DREW THE BOUNDARIES FOR THE NEW CITY & COUNTY COUNCIL DISTRICT BOUNDARIES.

THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS OUT THERE.

WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS NOT THE WAY IT HAS TO BE.

OF COURSE, IT'S THE WAY IT'S GOING TO BE THIS TIME.

WE HAVE ANOTHER DECADE TO THINK ABOUT SOME POSSIBLE CHANGES HERE.

AND THERE MIGHT BE BETTER WAYS DO IT.

>> BETTER WAYS TO CREATE OUR REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION THAN THE ONE WE HAVE NOW.

>> I WANT TO CLARIFY.

LITTLE BIT.

I'M IN NO WAY MAKING ACCUSATIONS.

REPEATING OBSERVATIONS THAT NOTICED IN TESTIMONY TODAY.

IF THAT IS NOT THE CASE, COMMISSIONERS NEED TO COME FORWARD AND EXPLAIN WHY THEY DREW THE LINE THIS IS WAY.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

STEVE SAID THIS EARLIER.

THIS IS JUST THE START TO THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT PROCESS.

>> THE MAPS ARE GOING OUT FOR PUBLIC HEARING.

PUBLIC HEARINGS WILL BE FOR TWO WEEK PROCESS.

IT'S NOT STARTING AT A GREAT TIME.

STARTING THANKSGIVING WEEK.

AND GOES TO ABOUT 2 WEEKS BEFORE THANKSGIVING WEEK.

EVERYONE WHO HAS PROBLEM WAS THESE MAPS SHOULD SAY SOMETHING NOW IS THE TIME TO EFFECT CHANGE IN THESE MAPS.

NOT A DONE DEAL.

>>Daryl: WATCHING THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION MEETING.

>> FELLOW CAME AND HE SAID, TALK SPECIFICALLY.

FROM KAILUA, TALKING SPECIFICALLY ABOUT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN KAILUA AND ENCHANTED LAKES.

WAIMANALO, PORTLOCK.

>>ENCHANTED LAKES.

DID A LINE AT MAKAPUU.

IGNORED POLITICS.

TRIED TO MAKE THEM AHUPUAPA SHAPED DISTRICTS, WORKED OUT JUST FINE.

HOW THE HECK DID HE DO THAT?

YOU'RE SAYING THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY STEVE, A WAY THAT THE PUBLIC COULD ACTUALLY GO IN AND DRAW THEIR OWN MAPS?

>> STATE OF THE STATE ART APP ON THE LINE.

ACTUALLY TUTORIALS, VIDEO TO INSTRUCT YOU HOW DO IT.

ENCOURAGED TO DO IT.

SANDY WAS SAYING IS TRUE.

THIS IS ABOUT BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS.

BEST WAY OFFER CHANGE NOT JUST TESTIMONY CREATE A MAP.

SHOW THEM A REAL MAP THAT YOU THINK WORKS BETTER.

IF YOU'RE DID GO CREATE A MAP, SAYING WITH WAIMANALO, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE CREATE A MAP INVOLVE ENTIRE ISLAND.

ONE OF THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSIONERS SAID IF YOU REMOVE PORTLOCK FROM THE DISTRICT, HAVE TO PORTLOCK FROM THE DISTRICT PUT UP WAIALUA WITH WAHIAWA.

TO ME, WAIALUA WITH WAHIAWA MAKES MORE SENSE THAN PORTLOCK WITH WAIMANALO.

CREATES DOMINO PROCESS.

MOVE DISTRICT LINES YOU MOVE CENSUS BLOCKS.

IT AFFECTS NEXT DISTRICT.

KEEP ON GOING UNTIL YOU GET IT RESOLVED.

>>Daryl: STRIKES ME AS BEING REALLY, MOST TRANSPARENT AND PUBLIC SPIRITED I MEAN, LIKE WHAT SAYING.

PEOPLE CAN REALLY GET INTO THIS.

I MEAN, I CAN SEE MYSELF UP TO 2:00 IN THE MORNING, MANIPULATING DISTRICTS.

I'M NOT MUCH OF A GEEK.

ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE SYSTEM, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT HAPPY PEOPLE CAN'T GO DOWN PHYSICALLY.

BUT IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT OF INPUT THAT IS HAPPENING, THIS TIME, IS IT LIKE IT WAS BEFORE?

ONE QUESTION FROM SOMEONE SAYING, HOW DID THE, HOW WAS IT DIFFERENT THIS TIME THAN IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO?

>> WE WERE TOLD THAT THERE WERE MORE TESTIMONIES WRITTEN AND ORAL, AT THIS PUBLIC HEARING TODAY, THAN THERE WERE TEN YEARS AGO.

LIKE MORE PUBLIC PARTICIPATION.

THIS TIME AROUND.

THAN THEY'VE SEEN LAST TIME AROUND.

SO YES, WE'RE HAPPY PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED.

>> WE'RE HAPPY THAT PEOPLE KNOW THIS GOING ON.

WE'RE HAPPY THAT PEOPLE ARE SUBMITTING MAPS.

COMMON CAUSE HAS DONE TRAINING WITH THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION STAFF ON HOW TO USE THE MAPPING TOOL.

SO YES, WE'RE HAPPY.

WE WANT PEOPLE TO SUBMIT THEIR OWN MAPS.

>>Daryl: KIND OF WONDERED, THROW THIS OUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THIS YEAR ALSO THERE'S BEEN MORE COVERAGE OF THE NATIONAL GERRYMANDERING ISSUE PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND LOTS OF REPORTING BY THINK IT WAS TEXAS, WHERE THEY BASICALLY JUST BLATANTLY WENT AND CHOPPED UP DISTRICTS WHERE MINORITY VOTERS WERE DOMINANT DO YOU THINK THERE'S A REALIZATION OUT THERE THIS DISTRICTING IS A NATIONAL ISSUE THAT YOU NEED TO AFFECT LOCALLY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, RECEIVED A LOT OF PRESS COVERAGE OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS.

I MEAN, IDEA OF POLITICAL REDISTRICTING HAS BEEN CONTROVERSIAL OF COURSE.

PERFECTLY LEGAL IN MOST STATES.

TO DRAW BOUNDARIES TO TRY TO FAVOR ONE POLITICAL PARTY AND THAT IS THE TEXAS EXAMPLE.

WE DIDN'T EVEN TALK ABOUT OUR TWO CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS THEY MORE OR LESS REMAIN THE SAME WITH VERY SMALL CHANGE.

A LOT OF STATES, BIG STATES LIKE TEXAS, THAT HAD A LOT OF CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS CONTROLLED AND DRAWN BY THE MAJORITY POLITICAL PARTY, THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS WITH TRYING TO DILUTE MINORITY VOTES, TRYING TO DILUTE VOTES OF THE OPPOSITION PARTY.

AND I THINK IT'S A RESULT OF COVERAGE, PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS FAR MORE THAN THEY USED TO.

PART OF IT IS DUE TO THE TECHNOLOGY.

USED TO BE A LOT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO THIS.

BUT THE COMPUTER PROGRAMS ARE SO SOPHISTICATED, THAT THE WAYS DONE IN VERY PARTISAN STATES YOU CAN SEE HOW MANY REPUBLICANS DISTRICT LIVE IN EACH CENSUS BLOCK AND START DRAWING, TRY TO MAXIMIZE POSSIBILITY CERTAIN PARTY WILL WIN.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF SOPHISTICATED STATISTICAL ALGORITHMS TO HELP YOU OUT.

>>Daryl: COMMENT ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE PEOPLE ARE JUST MORE AWARE OF HOW REDISTRICTING HAS BEEN USED TO SUPPRESS BLACK VOTES IN PARTICULAR, ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

IS PART OF A STRATEGY OF VOTER SUPPRESSION THAT'S BEEN GOING ON EVER SINCE THEY WERE ALLOWED TO VOTE?

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK SO MY EXPERTISE IS LOCAL LEVEL.

SAME SENTIMENTS ECHOED NATIONWIDE FOR DECADES.

WHAT I DO WANT TO SAY, IT'S BEEN REALLY HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO EVEN KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING ON.

I KNOW COMMON CAUSE HAS PUT ANY LOT OF EFFORT INTO PROMOTING THIS AND GETTING PEOPLE INVOLVED.

AND I JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO ONLINE AND CREATE A MAP, WE REALLY WISH WE COULD HAVE THIS ON THE COUNCIL LEVEL.

USED THE SAME SOFTWARE.

ONLY TWO SOFTWARE LICENSE ON THE COUNCIL LEVEL.

COMMISSIONERS COULDN'T MAKE OUR OWN MAP ON THE STATE LEVEL, COMMISSIONERS PUBLIC CAN MAPS.

MAKE THEIR OWN SOFTWARE.

PBS CAN LINK TO THAT IN VIDEOS IF NOT, I WILL COMMENT ON THE VIDEOS AND GIVE YOU LINK TO THE SOFTWARE.

>>Daryl: I JUST GOOGLE HAWAII REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

WHAT YOU HAVE TO.

URL IS LONG.

CAN'T SPIT IT OUT.

WE WILL LINK TO THAT COMMENTS.

>> ELECTION OFFICES LINKS ARE THERE.

BREAK DOWN MAPPING AND TECHNOLOGY.

>>Daryl: IS THERE A LOT OF MONEY PUT INTO THE STATE EFFORT?

MORE MONEY THAN IN THE PAST.

MATTER OF TECHNOLOGY IMPROVING SO MUCH?

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW BIG IS THE BUDGET IS.

>> SPENT MONEY ON THIS TECHNOLOGY.

GOOD THING.

EVOLVED, MUCH MORE USER FRIENDLY.

IT'S GOOD IT'S OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.

UNFORTUNATELY THING ABOUT IT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, IT HASN'T BEEN WELL PUBLICIZED.

>> MUCH AS PUBLIC DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

EVEN THOSE MEETINGS.

YOU HAVE TO BE SAVVY GOT WEBSITE.

SUNSHINE LAW HAS VERY SPECIFIC TIMELINES AS FAR AS ANNOUNCING PUBLIC MEETINGS ALL BURIED IN THE WEBSITE.

YOU HAVE TO GO TO WEBSITE TO SEE THESE ANNOUNCEMENT.

>> BURY IN THE WEBSITE.

SEE THE ZOOM LINKS.

PUBLICIZED MORE.

BETTER.

PEOPLE HAVE TO KNOW HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS, REAPPORTION.

CONSTITUTION, ONE VOTE, ONE PERSON, EQUAL REPRESENTATION.

NOT PROTECT INCUMBENTS EVAL VOICE CITY OR COUNTY OR STATE LEVEL.

>> THANK YOU STEVE FOR THAT.

THAT WAS WONDERFULLY SAID.

THERE WASN'T SPECIFIC APPROPRIATION TO SUPPORT THE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION.

DON'T RECALL HOW MUCH THAT HAVE WAS DONE IN THE 2021 SESSION.

>>Daryl: DO YOU THINK THIS LARGE AMOUNT OF PUBLIC PARTICIPATION IS GOING TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> I HOPE IT DOES.

IN THE PAST, THEY HAVE ADJUSTED LINES AFTER PUBLIC COMPLAINTS.

I THINK THERE'S BEEN A LOT MORE OF IT LIKE WE SAID.

>> THAN IN THE PAST.

I THINK THAT PARTICULARLY DISTRICT 51, KAILUA PORTLOCK DISTRICT, AND MANOA DISTRICT WE MENTIONED, A LOT OF PEOPLE FIND PROBLEMATIC, IS IT WOULDN'T SURPRISE ME IF THERE IS, THEY DO RECONSIDER SOME OF THESE DISTRICTS.

I THINK THE GREAT THAT PEOPLE ARE PUSHING BACK.

BUT IT MIGHT BE BETTER ALSO TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE COULD DO THIS BETTER IN THE FUTURE.

HOW CAN WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE RATHER THAN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SORT OF KEEP THE MAP MORE OR LESS STABLE.

PROTECT INCUMBENTS, AND WORK AROUND THE MARGINS WE JUST START FROM A BLANK MAP OF THE ISLANDS AND GO FROM THERE AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT WHO IN WHAT DISTRICT.

TRY TO DRAW THE FAIREST MOST COHERENT DISTRICTS.

WHAT THEY DID CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU LEVEL.

I THINK THEY LOOKED GREAT.

MAKE A LOT OF SENSE.

>>Daryl: THEORETICALLY, COULD YOU USE THOSE DISTRICTS AS ABASE FOR HOUSE DISTRICTS.

I MEAN, WHY WOULD YOU I'M SURE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE DISTRICTS THAT CROSS LINES BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY MORE HOUSE DISTRICTS.

WHY CAN'T YOU START WITH A MAP THAT'S JUST LAYERS DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS ON TOP OF EACH OTHER?

WHY NOT?

>> COULD.

YOU COULD DO THAT.

>> WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOUR MAPS DARYL TOMORROW.

>>Daryl: I'VE GOT A KITCHEN TO RENOVATE.

SORRY.

SOUNDED REALLY CYNICAL.

THREE QUESTIONS THAT ARE SORT OF TECHNICAL.

ALSO LSE INTERESTING.

ONE IS HOW DOES THE CENSUS AFFECT THE DECISION TO COMMISSION MAKES ON REDISTRICTING.

>> MENTION ABOUT THE MILITARY NONRESIDENTS BEING EXTRACTED.

CURIOUS, THIRD ONE, WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF PERMANENT RESIDENT YOU'RE USING?

SUSAN FROM HONAUNAU.

SANDY, SO WHO IS IN AND WHO IS OUT?

WALK TALK ABOUT THE STATE FIRST.

YOU MENTIONED MILITARY IS INCLUDED IN YOUR CALCULATION.

BUT STATE LEVEL, IT'S NOT.

RIGHT?

WHO IS IN AND WHO IS OUT.

>> CENSUS FORMS BASIS FOR THE REAPPORTIONMENT IN THE REDISTRICTING.

THAT'S WHY EVERY TEN YEARS, ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION, WE COUNT EVERYBODY.

WHETHER YOU'RE CITIZEN, OR NOT, WHETHER YOU ARE VOTING AGE, OR NOT.

YOU COULD BE NEWBORN BABY.

WE COUNT EVERYONE AS OF APRIL 1, CENSUS DAY.

SO THAT FORMS BASIS OF REAPPORTIONMENT.

REAPPORTIONMENT IS IT REALLOCATE 435 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES SEAT ACROSS THE 50 STATES.

SO THAT IS REAPPORTIONMENT.

REDISTRICTING IS TAKING CENSUS NUMBERS AND REDRAWING THE STATE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND COUNTY SEATS, AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

IF YOU HAVE SCHOOL BOARDS SEATS, THAT REDRAWS THOSE TOO.

SO THAT IS WHY WE TAKE THE CENSUS AND THEN GO TO REAPPORTIONMENT AND REDISTRICTING.

>>Daryl: WHAT IS THE LOGIC OF EXCLUDING MILITARY?

WHAT IS THE LOGIC OF EXCLUDING MILITARY?

>> EXCLUDING.

MAJORITY OF MILITARY IN HAWAII NOT HAWAII RESIDENTS.

CLAIM RESIDENTS IN OTHER STATES WHERE THEY'RE FROM.

A LOT OF MILITARY, BECAUSE THEY'RE MOBILE, CLAIM FLORIDA AS THEIR HOME STAY.

THEN NEVER LIVED THERE BECAUSE FLORIDA HAS NO INCOME TAX.

NOT PAYING TAX IN HAWAII, THEY DON'T CLAIM HAWAII RESIDENT.

NOT INCLUDED.

CAN I JUST ADD, TALKING ABOUT IT AS IF IT'S JUST THE MILITARY.

IT'S ALSO STUDENTS AND SNOWBIRD AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIVE HERE FULL TIME.

THE REASON THAT WE DO IT IS BECAUSE THE STATE CONSTITUTION ARTICLE 4 SECTION 4, MANDATES THAT WE HAVE TO ON THE STATE LEVEL ONLY.

THAT IS WHY WE DIDN'T DO IT ON THE COUNCIL LEVEL.

NO MANDATE FOR THE COUNCIL.

>> WE ARE THE ONLY STATE THAT DOESN'T COUNT EVERYONE.

WE'RE THE ONLY STATE THAT EXCLUDES NONPERMANENT RESIDENTS.

>>Daryl: DO YOU THINK THAT'S A SPECIFIC SLAP AT THE MILITARY?

EVEN THOUGH PERSON WHO IS REGISTERED IN ANOTHER STATE CAN'T VOTE HERE.

THEY DESERVE REPRESENTATION.

USING FACILITIES.

THEY DESERVE TO BE HEARD.

BUT IF THEY ARE NOT COUNTED REAPPORTIONMENT.

>> NOT BEING HEARD AS OTHER CITIZENS.

>> BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT RESIDENTS, STILL USING SERVICES.

>> SHOULD COUNT.

A LOT OF IT IS DUE TO FIGHT BETWEEN OAHU AND NEIGHBOR ISLANDS.

WHICH IS COUNTING THOSE MILITARY AND NONRESIDENTS STUDENTS, REALLY BENEFITS OAHU.

BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE NEARLY EVERYBODY WAS.

I THINK OF THE MILITARY AN STUDENTS WHO WERE EXTRACTED THIS TIME AROUND, 95% WERE ON OAHU.

SO THERE IS THAT POLITICAL DEBATE TOO.

>>Daryl: QUITE A LOT OF, QUITE A LOT, RIGHT?

IT'S SIX FIGURE IN PEOPLE.

ISN'T IT?

I'M NOT SURE.

>> NOT THIS YEAR.

THIS YEAR WAS ONLY 71,000.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

I REMEMBER IN THE PAST, IT WAS HUNDREDS.

>> 100,000 TEN YEARS AGO.

>>Daryl: IT WAS.

WOW, THAT MUCH LESS MILITARY.

>> 36,000 LESS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS ACCURATE.

>> >> CAN I JUST SAY A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK OF IT AS IF IT'S DENYING THEM A VOICE.

ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE.

IF THEY CALL THEIR REPRESENTATIVE WHERE THEY LIVE, REPRESENTATIVE ABSOLUTELY STILL GOING TO BE RESPONSIVE TO THEM.

AND WHEN WE'RE DOLING OUT FEDERAL FUNDING, IT TILL COUNTS IN THE CENSUS NUMBERS SO WE STILL DOLE OUT SEN FUNDING FOR THE SCHOOLS AND FOR THE HOSPITAL AND EVERYTHING IN THEIR DISTRICT RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

BIG MILITARY BASE IN DISTRICT, KAILUA BORN AND RAISED, HALF OF THAT DISTRICT POPULATION IS IN THE MILITARY BASE WHERE MOST OF THEM DON'T VOTE AND YOU CAN'T GO AND CAMPAIGN.

SO IT ESSENTIALLY MEANS THAT THE ELECTION FOR THAT REPRESENTATIVE IS SIGNIFICANTLY EASIER AND PUTS THEM AT A MAJOR ADVANTAGE COMPARED TO OTHER REPRESENTATIVES WHO HAVE TO CANVAS WHOLE DISTRICT.

>>Daryl: INTERESTING.

BUT ALSO, FROM MY EXPERIENCE DEALING WITH POLITICIANS, THEY ARE VOTE COUNTERS.

THEY WANT TO KNOW WHO GOING TO VOTE IN THEIR DISTRICT.

WHO IS VOTING FOR THEM.

THEY KNOW WHAT ETHNIC GROUP VOTES FOR THIS.

WHAT ETHNIC GROUP DOES NOT TEND TO VOTE FOR THEM.

WHAT ECONOMIC GROUP VOTES FOR THEM.

SO ON.

INCREDIBLY SENSITIVE TO THOSE THINGS.

IS TO ME, IF YOU ARE NOT BEING COUNTED BY THER REDISTRICTING AND HALF THE PEOPLE ARE MILITARY.

MAYBE EASY TO RUN IN THAT DISTRICT AS INCUMBENT.

NOT REACHING OUT TO IN THE MILITARY COMMUNITY TO MAKE THE CONNECTIONS THAT WILL REPRESENT THEM.

IS THAT A FAIR THING TO SAY, COLIN?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THIS IS WHY I SAID, REALLY COMES DOWN TO YOUR PHILOSOPHY OF REPRESENTATION.

WE'RE YOUNG BECAUSE WE DECIDED TO EXTRACT AND EXCLUDE MILITARY AND NONRESIDENTS STUDENTS, BUT AS YOU SAID, YOU CAN SPIN AND ARGUMENT THAT SAYS, THEY'RE LIVING THERE.

THEY SHOULD, THEY SHOULD BE INCLUDED.

THEY'RE USING SERVICES.

SO IT'S REALLY JUST A JUDGMENT CALL.

WE HAVE CHOSEN UNIQUELY TO GO A DIFFERENT WAY.

>> COMMON CAUSE IS ALSO WANTED TO HAVE INCARCERATED PEOPLE COUNTED AT THE AT THEIR HOME RESIDENCE AS OF CENSUS DAY VERSUS COUNTED IN THE FACILITY THEY'RE INCARCERATED IN.

>> THAT SKEWS POPULATION COUNT AND SKEWS REDISTRICTING.

>>Daryl: PERSON IN YOUR DISTRICT.

YOU HAVE, HAVE A SMALLER DISTRICT BOSSERT YOU'VE GOT PRISONERS THERE.

COUNTED IN THAT DISTRICT.

DON'T HAVE TO CAMPAIGN THERE.

>>Daryl: VERY INTERESTING.

>> MILITARY USING SERVICE.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THE MILITARY ARE NOT PERMIT RESIDENTS BECAUSE STATE GETS COMPENSATED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT USE OR SCHOOLS FACILITY NOT PAYING INCOME TAX IN HAWAII.

DON'T DECLARE PERMANENT RESIDENTS.

DON'T PAY INCOME TAXES.

IN HOME STATE.

THAT'S THE LOGIC WHY THEY'RE REMOVED.

STILL QUESTION, MANY TESTIFIERS IN TODAY'S REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION HAVE QUESTIONED ABOUT THERE IS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT DECREASE.

HAS THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REPORTED THAT DECREASE.

30 MILLION OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS?

>>Daryl: INTERESTING TO SEE IF IT'S SHOWING UP HOUSING PRICES.

IOWA HAVE A POLITICS BLIND SYSTEM.

YOU COMPLEMENTED POSITIVELY ABOUT THE WAY THE CITY AND COUNTY RAN.

STEVE, IF YOU WERE GOING TO REWRITE THE SYSTEM, HOW WOULD YOU CHANGE IT?

>> WHAT COLIN WAS TALKING ABOUT MAKES SENSE.

STAFF THAT IS COMPLETELY APOLITICAL AND HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF INCUMBENTS.

>> AND JUST LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, RAW NUMBERS.

TRY TO CREATE AS EXACT AND CONTIGUOUS DISTRICT AS POSSIBLE WITH INTENT OF REPRESENTATION ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE.

MAYBE THAT IS GOOD, REMOVE POLITICS COMPLETELY FROM THE PROCESS.

>>Daryl: HOW DIFFERENT WOULD THAT BE.

>> HAVING CITIZENS KNOWLEDGEABLE IN THE PROCESS DRAW THE MAPS.

>>Daryl: HOW DO YOU FIND THEM WITHOUT GETTING POLITICIAN INVOLVED?

>> CITIZENS SIGN UP.

PUT PEOPLE FIRST.

INSTEAD OF POLITICS FIRST.

>> IT IS WHAT THEY DO IN CALIFORNIA.

LARGEST STATE IN THE NATION.

BIT OF A COMPLICATED PROCESS.

CITIZENS APPLY AND QUALIFICATIONS REVIEWED.

EVENTUALLY, FEW ARE RANDOMLY SELECTED.

THEN THEY SELECT THE OTHER MEMBERS OF WHAT IS A PRETTY LARGE COMMISSION.

IT CAN BE DONE.

ALTHOUGH, THAT IS LITTLE BIT OF A COMPLICATE PROCESS.

SOME WAYS IOWA SYSTEM IS A LITTLE CLEANER.

>>Daryl: SOUND LIKE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE THAT.

SIMILAR PRINCIPLE.

PEOPLE CITIZENS KNOW THEIR COMMUNITIES.

THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES TO DRAW BOUNDARY.

WORKED FAIRLY WELL IN CALIFORNIA.

I CERTAINLY WOULDN'T OBJECT IF WE TRIED IT HERE.

>>Daryl: INTERESTING TOO, AT THAT KIND OF, ASKING RESOURCE QUESTION.

IS THAT KIND OF RESOURCE PUT ON EVENT LIKE THAT WOULD BRING IT TO THE PUBLIC EYE.

A LOT MORE.

AND IN THE PUBLIC MIND A LOT MORE.

THAN YOU GUYS ARE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT.

BUNCH OF INSIDERS DOING THIS HERE.

AND BUT PUBLIC DOES HAVE TIME.

RIGHT?

HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO THEY HAVE AND WHAT SHOULD THEY BE DOING.

>> REVIEW THE MAPS.

>> SHOULD SUBMIT THEIR OWN MAPS.

AND TESTIFY.

BECAUSE THE HEARING, PUBLIC HEARINGS WILL BE IN THE EVENING.

5:00 OR 6:00.

WILL BE ON ZOOM.

SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE TIME.

>>Daryl: THANK YOU SO MUCH EVERYBODY.

ALL OF OUR GUESTS.

I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AS WELL.

GUESTS.

NATALIA HUSSEY BURDECK FROM THE HONOLULU REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION, SANDY MA THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF COMMON CAUSE HAWAII, STEVE PAVAO FROM THE HAWAII ISLAND ADVISORY COUNCIL TO THE STATE REAPPORTIONMENT COMMISSION, AND COLIN MOORE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUBLIC POLICY CENTER AT UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, WE WILL EXPLORE THE STRESS AND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES PEOPLE FACE AS WE HEAD INTO ANOTHER HOLIDAY SEASON DEALING WITH COVID 19.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII, ALOHA!