♪.

TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA LEAVING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND REGISTERING AS INDEPENDENT.

THAT AND MORE NEXT ON THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

ANNOUNCER: THIS HOUR OF LOCAL NEWS IS MADE POSSIBLE BY CONTRIBUTIONS FROM THE FRIENDS OF PBS.

MEMBERS OF YOUR PBS STATION.

THANK YOU.

TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE, AND JOINING US TONIGHT FOR A LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES, JEREMY DUDA OF AXIOS PHOENIX, JIM SMALL OF THE "ARIZONA MIRROR" AND RON HANSEN OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" AND AZCENTRAL.COM.

>>> SENATOR SINEMA MADE IT -- WAS THIS A SURPRISE?

>> THIS ONLY HAPPENED A COUPLE OF TIMES IN CONGRESSIONAL HISTORY.

HAS TO BE A SURPRISE.

THAT SAID, SENATOR SINEMA WAS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO SEEMED TO BE THE KIND OF PERSON TO MAKE THE MOVE.

BRANDING HERSELF AS INDEPENDENT THROUGHOUT HER CAREER, THIS FELT LIKE A PATH SHE WAS HEADED GIVEN THE POOR APPROVAL RATINGS SHE'S REGISTERED WITH A LOT OF DEMOCRATS.

TED: I WANT TO GET TO ALL THOSE POINTS.

JIM, WHY THIS?

WHY NOW?

>> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

I THINK IT GETS AT ITS CORE GETS BACK TO WHAT RON WAS TALKING ABOUT.

THERE'S BEEN A NUMBER OF POLLS THAT HAVE COME OUT THAT SHOW DWINDLING APPROVAL RATINGS ACROSS ALL POLITICAL GROUPS.

REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS, MEN, WOMEN, OLDER VOTERS, YOUNGER VOTERS, WHITE VOTERS, LATINO VOTERS.

ACROSS THE SPECTRUM, APPROVAL RATING HAS PLUMMETED AND IT BECAME INCREASINGLY CLEAR THAT SHE WAS GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME IN THE 2024 PRIMARY, THAT THERE WERE GOING TO BE DEMOCRATS WHO CHALLENGE HER TO HER LEFT, AND WE HEARD WHISPERS ABOUT INTERNAL POLL NUMBERS THAT WERE SHOWING HER WITH A REALLY UPHILL CLIMB, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE ONE TO GET PAST THE LIKES OF POTENTIAL CANDIDATES FOLKS LIKE GREG STANTON, CONGRESSMAN FROM PHOENIX, RUBEN GALLEGO, ANOTHER CONGRESSMAN FROM PHOENIX, WHO HAVE MADE NOISE POTENTIALLY CHALLENGING SINEMA.

TED: IS SHE GOING TO RUN AGAIN?

>> SOME PEOPLE THINK MAYBE NOT.

THE GENERAL SENTIMENT IS SHE PROBABLY WILL.

SHE DID THIS FOR A REASON, OBVIOUSLY.

LOOKING AT THE SAME DYNAMICS WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY THE REST OF US ARE SEEING.

SHE PUT OUT THIS VERY SLICK VIDEO TODAY THAT HAD APPEARANCES OF CAMPAIGN VIDEO TALKING ABOUT WHY SHE'S DOING THIS FOR ARIZONANS.

I'M GUESSING CAN YOU WIN AS AN INDEPENDENT WHEN YOU HAVE A DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN RUNNING AGAINST YOU IN A THREE-WAY RACE?

THAT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT.

FOR ALL THE TALK HOW SHE APPEALS TO INDEPENDENTS AND THEY'RE A THIRD OF THE STATE.

THE LARGEST VOTING BLOC.

THEY DON'T BELIEVE THE SAME THING.

IF THEY ALL BELIEVE THE SAME THING, THEY'D HAVE A PARTY.

A LOT ARE VERY FAR LEFT AND RIGHT AND GENUINELY MORE IN THE MIDDLE, BUT MOST DEMOCRATS AND DEMOCRATICALLY INCLINED INDEPENDENTS ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

ONE PART OF SINEMA'S CALCULUS IS THE REPUBLICANS AS THEY DID A BUNCH OF TIMES IN THE RECENT ELECTION NOMINATE SOMEONE FROM THE MAGA FAR RIGHT WHO IS UNAPPEALING TO REPUBLICANS CLOSER TO THE MIDDLE.

TED: THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

RON, BACK TO YOU.

AS FAR AS HER STANDING IN CONGRESS, HER POWER IN CONGRESS.

WHAT DOES THIS DO?

>> IN THE SHORT RUN, IT DOESN'T APPEAR TO DO ANYTHING.

THAT'S THE EXPECTATION.

MAJORITY LEADER SCHUMER INDICATED HE IS HONORING HER REQUEST TO KEEP HER COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS AT THE MOMENT.

THE DEMOCRATS RETAIN A MAJORITY AS THEY HEAD INTO THE NEXT CONGRESS.

THAT WILL GIVE THEM A MAJORITY IN THE COMMITTEES THAT ALLOWS THEM TO MOVE EXPEDITIOUSLY ON JUDICIAL NOMINATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE.

NEAR-TERM, SHE SAID SHE WILL VOTE THE WAY SHE TRADITIONALLY VOTED, WITH PROGRESSIVES ON SOME ISSUES SUCH AS ABORTION RIGHTS, FOR EXAMPLE, AND WITH REPUBLICANS ON SOME ISSUES SUCH AS TAX MATTERS.

SO THE EXPECTATION IS IT'S MOSTLY BUSINESS AS USUAL, EVERYONE KNOWS FOR THE NEAR-TERM, THEY'RE STUCK WITH EACH OTHER.

TED: YEAH, AND JIM, AS YOU MENTIONED GALLEGO AND STANTON, GALLEGO PUTTING INTERESTS AHEAD OF ARIZONANS, STANTON DOES NOT STAND FOR CORPORATE LOBBYISTS AND BILLIONAIRES.

LET'S GET THE RACE UNDER WAY, HUH?

>> YEAH, FOR DEMOCRATS, THE LAST TWO YEARS PARTICULARLY DURING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THEY'VE BECOME INCREASINGLY DISENCHANTED WITH HER.

IT WAS EARLIER THIS YEAR SHE WAS CENSURED.

BACK IN JANUARY, THE STATE PARTY CENSURED HER BECAUSE SHE REFUSED TO LIFT THE FILIBUSTER RULE IN ORDER TO PASS THE VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATURE.

SHE'D BEEN WARNED IN 2021 THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND SHE STILL DID THAT ANYWAY, AND DIDN'T LISTEN TO THE PARTY, AND SO I THINK IN SOME RESPECTS, I'M SURE THE PARTY IS GLAD TO HAVE HER -- NOT HAVE TO WORRY AND DEFEND HER AND HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THE MESSAGING TO TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES AND THE VALUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THEM WITHOUT RUNNING AFOUL OF ESSENTIALLY BASHING INCUMBENT SENATOR.

TED: INDEED, JEREMY, THEY MAY NOT LIKE HER BUT SHE IS INCUMBENT, YOU LOST THAT FOR 2024.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS.

YOU MENTIONED WILL THEY GO WITH ANOTHER MAGA CANDIDATE.

THE RESULTS HAVEN'T BEEN SO HOT STATEWIDE ON THAT LEVEL.

WHAT ABOUT A DOUG DUCEY?

>> YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO MAKE DOUG DUCEY HAPPEN FOR A SENATE RACE FOR A WHILE.

DOUG DUCEY FOR SENATE IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

YOU TALK TO FOLKS, I TALKED TO A COUPLE TODAY, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, FORMER CONSULTANT CLOSE WITH HIM, HE'S AN EXECUTIVE THROUGH AND THROUGH THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF PUT TO ME.

DOESN'T WANT TO BE IN THE SENATE, SERVING IN LEGISLATIVE CAPACITY.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS HIS WIFE IS NOT SO KEEN ON POLITICS AND MAYBE GOING TO BE HAPPY TO SEE TIME IN ELECTED OFFICE COME TO AN END.

HE'S TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT WANTING TO BECOME THE HEAD OF U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AFTER HE LEAVES THE NINTH FLOOR.

THERE'S VERY LITTLE CHANCE.

THE FOLKS WHO WANT TO SEE A DOUG DUCEY TYPE, MORE MODERATE, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE REPUBLICAN, JUAN, I EXPECT FOR A LOT OF FOLKS TO LOOK TO HIM AS THAT REPUBLICAN, BUT CAN HE GET THROUGH A PRIMARY?

TED: ON THE MAGA SIDE, BIGGS MAYBE?

>> BIGGS, SHERIFF MARK LAMB, MAYBE KARI LAKE, IF SHE'S NOT CLAIMING SHE'S THE RIGHTFUL GOVERNOR.

POSSIBLY KELLI WARD.

A LOT OF NAMES GOING AROUND, THEY ARE ON THE MAGA SIDE OF THE LEDGER.

TED: WOULD SHE HAVE JUMPED SHIP IF WARNOCK HAD NOT WON IN GEORGIA?

>> I SUSPECT THIS DECISION WAS NOT ESPECIALLY TIED TO RALPH YELL WARNOCK'S RACE, SHE GAVE TO HIS CAMPAIGN REPEATEDLY.

SHE'S A SUPPORTER.

THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO SLIGHT HIM OR TAKE AWAY FROM HIS VICTORY.

SHE HAS A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND HAS RELATIONSHIPS WITH EVERYBODY WHO IS IN THE SENATE.

THIS IS THE KIND OF THING SHE DIDN'T DO IN ANY KIND OF RASH WAY IN MY CONVERSATION WITH HER, AND I SUSPECT THAT THE TIMING OF IT HAD TO DO WITH TRYING TO CREATE A LONG RUN WAY TO WHATEVER THE FUTURE LOOKS LIKE FOR HER, IF SHE'S GOING TO RUN AS INDEPENDENT, SHE'S GOING TO NEED TO FUND-RAISING, NEW APPARATUS AROUND HER TO DO THAT.

SHE NEEDS A SENSE OF WHO MIGHT JUMP IN, AND THIS NEW DYNAMIC WILL POSSIBLY INVITE PEOPLE INTO THE EQUATION WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE RUN BEFORE.

IT MIGHT CHASE OTHERS OUT.

I THINK ALL THOSE FACTORS, MY SENSE IS IT HAD MORE TO DO WITH HER THAN WITH HIM.

TED: STICKING WITH THAT IDEA.

SHE'S NO DUMMY, UNDERSTANDS WHAT'S GOING ON.

SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S DONE THE MATH HERE, IN SOME RESPECTS?

>> SHE HAS DONE THE MATH, IF YOU'RE REFERRING TO HOW HER STANDING WILL BE IN THE SENATE MOVING FORWARD, SHE REMAINS PIVOTAL IN LEGISLATION THEY'RE LOOKING AT.

IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RACE IN 24 IF SHE CHOOSES TO RUN, THERE'S GOING TO BE SERIOUS NEW CALCULATIONS IN PLAY.

WHAT KIND OF DEMOCRAT WOULD YOU RUN IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE HER?

HOW MUCH DO YOU EXPECT HER TO CUT INTO DEMOCRATIC VOTERS AND THE SAME THING ON THE RIGHT.

HOW MANY REPUBLICANS MIGHT PEEL OFF?

THERE'S A NEW CALCULUS WITH THIS, NONE OF US HAVE REALLY SEEN.

TED: JIM, WHO IS APPLAUDING THIS MOVE?

>> WELL, HONESTLY, I SAW A LOT OF DEMOCRATS VERY HAPPY ABOUT THE MOVEMENT FOR WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

SHE HAS ANGERED DEMOCRATS SO MUCH OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, IN PARTICULAR, AND DEMOCRATS WORKED SO HARD TO GET HER ELECTED IN 2018 AND ALL DIFFERENT CONSTITUENCIES AND INTEREST GROUPS THAT RALLIED BEHIND HER, AND A LOT OF THEM FELT ABANDONED AND FELT SHE ESSENTIALLY GOT TO D.C., WON THE SENATE RACE AND SHUT HER DOOR AND DIDN'T WANT TO LISTEN TO THEM AND WASN'T RESPONSIVE TO ARIZONA, AND AT THE SAME TIME, THEY SAW HER TAKING VOTES LIKE CONFIRMING BILL BARR AS THE A.G. OR STANDING WITH REPUBLICANS TO PROTECT THE FILIBUSTER AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK THOSE ALL ADDED UP.

AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK THIS ULTIMATELY, IF IT'S GOING TO BENEFIT ANYBODY, IF SHE RUNS AS INDEPENDENT, IT'S GOING TO BENEFIT THE REPUBLICANS.

REPUBLICANS HAVE BAKED IN NUMERICAL ADVANTAGE IN ARIZONA.

SHE IS THERE, SIPHONING AWAY THE SOFT R'S OR RIGHT-LEANING INDEPENDENTS AND GOING INTO KYRSTEN SINEMA BACKING HER WHEN THEY GO TO THE BALLOT BOX, THOSE ARE FEWER VOTES FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

DEMOCRATS HAVE SUCCEEDED THE LAST CYCLES BY WINNING VOTES, WINNING INDEPENDENT VOTERS, GETTING 60, 65% INDEPENDENTS AND PEELING OFF BETWEEN 5, 10, 12% OF REPUBLICANS.

IF A DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE CAN'T DO THAT, SUDDENLY IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR DEMOCRATS TO RETAIN THIS SEAT.

TED: WITH THAT IN MIND, JEREMY, LAST POINT HERE, I'M SEEING THIS FLOATED AROUND, PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS SENATOR SINEMA, WE LOVE YOU SO MUCH, WE WANT TO PUT YOU IN THE CABINET, IN THE ADMINISTRATION, GIVE YOU AN AMBASSADORSHIP.

WE THINK YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO OFFER.

BY DOING SO, THE SEAT NOW IS EMPTY AND I BELIEVE GOVERNOR HOBBS OR GOVERNOR DUCEY NOW, LATER GOVERNOR HOBBS WOULD BE REQUIRED TO APPOINT A DEMOCRAT?

HOW WOULD THAT WORK?

>> YOU HAVE TO APPOINT BASED ON WHAT THE PARTY REGISTRATION WAS WHEN THE PERSON WAS ELECTED.

SHE WAS A DEMOCRAT WHEN SHE WAS ELECTED, SO THE GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE TO APPOINT A DEMOCRAT TO REPLACE HER.

I DON'T SEE THAT BEING SUPER APPEALING TO SINEMA.

SHE'S IN A LOFTY POSITION, WHY GIVE THAT UP TO BE AMBASSADOR TO WHEREVER.

TED: I WAS GOING TO SAY IT SEEMS LIKE PART OF THAT EQUATION IS SHE HAS TO AGREE TO DO IT?

>> SEEMS LIKE A BIG CONDITION.

TED: LAST POINT, YOU COVERED HER, TALKED TO HER, WHAT DOES SHE DO?

WHERE DOES SHE GO?

IS THERE A RE-ELECTION HERE?

IS THERE A BIG BUSINESS PROFILE?

WHAT GIVES?

>> THAT'S WHAT'S ON EVERYONE'S MIND RIGHT NOW.

I SUSPECT HER FUTURE IS GOING TO BE DETERMINED IN THE RELATIVELY NEAR TERM AS SHE GETS A SENSE HOW THE RACE IS GOING TO SHAPE UP.

SHE HAS MORE THAN $7 MILLION IN THE BANK TO BRING TO THE TABLE.

SHE HAS LOTS OF RESOURCES, SHE'S HAD SUCCESS, SHE'S NOT GOING TO JUST WALK AWAY FROM A JOB SHE'S HAD AND HAD A LOT OF SUCCESS FROM, AT THE SAME TIME, I DON'T THINK SHE WANTS TO GO OUT BEING BEATEN AT THE POLLS IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE HUMILIATING.

I THINK SHE'S GOING TO TAKE A LOOK WHAT THE LANDSCAPE LOOKS LIKE IN THE RELATIVELY NEAR TERM.

TED: INTERESTING POINT NOT WANTING TO BE HUMILIATED.

>>> THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPENED, BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

THE ELECTION IS CERTIFIED.

IT'S A DONE DEAL.

>> YEAH, IT WAS.

ON MONDAY, SECRETARY OF STATE AND GOVERNOR-ELECT KATIE HOBBS AND GOVERNOR DOUG DUCEY SIGNED OFF ON CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION.

IT IS OFFICIAL.

THAT MEANS THAT THE LITIGATION.

THE WINDOW FOR LITIGATION OPENS AND ELECTION CHALLENGES WERE PRIMED INTO GO FROM ELECTION SEASON INTO LAWSUIT SEASON.

TED: A LITTLE BIT BEFORE 4:00 AS WE'RE TAPING THIS AND NOTHING HAS COME ACROSS.

LAKE KEEPS PLEDGING, HAMADEH KEEPS SAYING, IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> YEAH, BEFORE WE STARTED TAPING, THE HAMADEH CAMPAIGN ANNOUNCED THEY FILED A LAWSUIT, WHICH I HAVEN'T SEEN YET BUT ASSUME IT'S VERY SIMILAR TO THE ONE THEY FILED A COUPLE WEEKS AGO DISMISSED FOR BEING FILED TOO EARLY.

TED: AND ESSENTIALLY THAT CASE CENTERED AROUND THE IDEAS THAT MARICOPA COUNTY ON ELECTION DAY, THE BALLOT COUNTERS, THAT DISENFRANCHISED VOTERS AND OTHER ERRORS IN HOW THE ELECTIONS WERE ADMINISTERED ACROSS THE STATE.

510 VOTES SEPARATED ABE HAMADEH AND KRIS MAYES THE DEMOCRAT.

THAT'S GOING TO BE HEADED FOR RECOUNT, NO MATTER WHAT.

TED: NO KIDDING.

JEREMY, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS OBVIOUSLY THERE, BUT TALKED ABOUT HIS -- HE DOESN'T ENDORSE ELECTION OUTCOMES.

WHAT WAS HE SAYING THERE?

>> WASN'T ENTIRELY SURE ABOUT THIS, THE OFFICE WON'T CLARIFY WHAT HE MEANT.

VERY CURIOUS STATEMENT, THE GOVERNOR AND I, WE DON'T ACTUALLY CERTIFY THIS.

WE'RE HERE AS WITNESSES AND ONLY CAPACITY.

HE MADE A COMMENT, PARAPHRASED AN OLD JFK QUOTE, IF YOU RIDE THE TIGER INTO POWER, EVENTUALLY IT'S GOING TO EAT YOU.

TED: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> I ASKED HIS OFFICE.

AND THE COMMENT I GOT BACK IS SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT, IT IS WHAT IT IS, WE'LL LET PEOPLE DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSIONS.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

IS HE TALKING ABOUT KATIE HOBBS, ELECTION DENIERS, SOMETHING ELSE?

AFTER THE CEREMONY, HE PUT OUT A STATEMENT, GOT UP AND WALKED OUT WITHOUT SHAKING ANYONE'S HAND, THERE WAS HANDSHAKING AND BACK SLAPPING WITH GOVERNOR DUCEY AND KATIE HOBBS, BRNOVICH DIDN'T TALK TO ANYONE.

HE PUT OUT A STATEMENT ABOUT HIM SIGNING OFF AS A WITNESS DOESN'T MEAN HE ENDORSES HOW THE ELECTION WAS RUN OR WHETHER IT WAS LAWFUL, VERY CURIOUS, VERY BIZARRE END NOTE TO MARK BRNOVICH'S TIME AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

TED: RON, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT MARK BRNOVICH.

THIS IS U.S. SENATE CANDIDATE HERE, ATTORNEY GENERAL AND FIGURED TO BE THE REPUBLICAN FAVORITE TO BE SENATE CANDIDATE.

IS THIS THE KIND OF A GUY WHO COULD SNEAK IN AND FIND A SPOT IN 2024 OR HAS THAT SHIP SAILED?

>> FEELS TO ME THAT HIS SHIP HAS SAILED.

THIS IS SOMETHING, YOU'RE RIGHT, HE HAS THE RESUME THAT WOULD HAVE, IN CYCLES PAST, SEEMINGLY MADE HIM A FAVORITE.

SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

A LOT OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING THESE DAYS WITH THE CERTIFICATION IN ALL OF THE ATMOSPHERICS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE RIGHT NOW IS AN ONGOING RECKONING OVER THE FUTURE OF THE PARTY AND WHERE THE LEADING FIGURES IN THAT PARTY FIT INTO THE PARTY'S FUTURE.

TED: THAT'S WHY IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS BECAUSE SO MUCH HAPPENED IN THE PAST TWO YEARS.

KARI LAKE KEEPS PLEDGING SHE'S GOING TO DO SOMETHING.

AT WHAT POINT DOES -- I CAN'T SAY THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY, THEY ARE LOCK SQUARE BEHIND HER, REPUBLICANS IN GENERAL SAY ENOUGH'S ENOUGH.

>> THAT'S THE $74,000 QUESTION, RIGHT?

AND EVERYONE IS WONDERING THAT AFTER THE ELECTION.

CLEARLY THE PARTY INFRASTRUCTURE IS LOCK, STOCK AND BARREL BEHIND KARI LAKE, BEHIND DONALD TRUMP, BEHIND THE WHOLE MAGA MOVEMENT, AND THEY'VE BEEN STEADFAST IN THEIR REFUSAL TO TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY OR REALLY HAVE REFLECTION ON WHAT WAS IT THAT -- WHY WERE THINGS SO DIFFERENT?

WHY DID BLAKE MASTERS AND KARI LAKE AND MARK FINCHEM LOSE AND LOSE SO DEMONSTRABLY, REPUBLICANS PICKED UP CONGRESSIONAL SEATS ON THE LEGISLATIVE SIDE AND THINKING KIMBERLY YEE WON BY DOUBLE DIGITS.

WHAT WAS DIFFERENT ABOUT THEM?

AND RIGHT NOW ALL THE FOCUS IS IT WAS A BOTCHED ELECTION.

THAT AFFECTED KIMBERLY YEE.

ONE WOULD THINK THAT WOULD HAVE AFFECTED HER, DAVID SCHWEIKERT, POTENTIALLY THE EXTENT THERE ARE PROBLEMS IN PINAL AND PIMA AND COCHISE BUT NOT MAKING THAT ARGUMENT BECAUSE I THINK THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON HERE.

A LOT OF THIS IS POLITICAL THEATER, BUT THERE HAS NOT BEEN A WILLINGNESS TO DO AN AUTOPSY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT WENT WRONG.

WHAT WORKED, WHAT DIDN'T, AND HOW DOES THE PARTY MOVE FORWARD FROM THERE?

THAT IS ENDEMIC SINCE TRUMP BURST ON THE POLITICAL SCENE IS REFLECTION IS A SIGN OF WEAKNESS.

THE WAY FORWARD IS TO PUT YOUR HEAD DOWN AND CHARGE AHEAD, AND THAT'S HOW YOU SECURE VICTORY, NOT BY QUESTIONING WHAT HAPPENED AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

>> WHEN YOU REFUSE TO ADMIT YOU LOST AN ELECTION, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO CORRECT THE REASONS WHY YOU LOST, AND WE'RE SEEING THIS WITH REPUBLICANS IN ARIZONA AND GOING BACK TO SINEMA, TALKED TO THE REPUBLICANS WHO WORRY.

WHAT REASON DO WE HAVE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE IN 2024 AND PEOPLE LEARN THE LESSONS OF 2020 AND 2022?

TED: YEAH, JEREMY, STICKING WITH YOU, MOVING ON HERE, THIS IS THE STUFF THEY JUST WONDER HOW LONG YOU CAN KEEP DOING THIS KIND OF THING.

STATE REPUBLICAN CALLED IT A BOMBSHELL REGARDING TWEETS THAT KATIE HOBBS SENT TO TWITTER SAYING WE NEED TO DELETE TWEETS BECAUSE OF THE DISINFORMATION, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SAYS LOOK, LOOK, EVERYTHING THEY MENTIONED IS NOT ACCURATE.

>> THE BOMBSHELL IS A WET THUD ON THE FLOOR.

NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 2022 MIDTERMS, SOMETHING HER OFFICE SENT OUT ON JANUARY 7, THE DAY AFTER, SHOULD BE NOTED THE ATTEMPTED INSURRECTION OF CONGRESS.

TED: 2021 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> SHE WAS MONTHS AWAY FROM LAUNCHING CANDIDACY.

NO OTHER REPUBLICANS LAUNCHED CANDIDACY, AND THE PERSON THESE TWEETS WERE, FROM AN ACCOUNT, MIGHT HAVE BEEN GERMAN, HAD 21 FOLLOWERS CLAIMING THAT OUR ELECTIONS ARE UNDER FOREIGN CONTROL AND FOREIGN ENTITY THAT OWNED AND OPERATED THE REGISTRATION DATABASE THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE RUNS BECAUSE THEY MISUNDERSTAND THE DOCUMENTATION, THIS IS A FOREIGN CORPORATION BUT STATE LAW DEFINES THAT ORGANIZED OUTSIDE OF ARIZONANS, ORGANIZED UNDER THE LAWS OF NEW YORK.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE SENT THE E-MAIL TO THE GROUP THAT'S A NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION, A ONE-STOP SHOP TRYING TO FIGHT ELECTION-RELATED DISINFORMATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND CONTACT ALL THE SOCIAL MEDIA OUTLETS, THEY TOOK DOWN THE TWEETS, ACCOUNT HAS BEEN SUSPENDED.

THIS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH 2022.

NO REASON TO BELIEVE LAWS WERE BROKEN, ANY MALFEASANCE OF ANY KIND, THIS IS A RECENT FIXATION GIVEN REVELATIONS OF TWITTER FILES ON MUSK AND ALL THAT.

TED: THIS IS BEFORE SHE ANNOUNCED, BUT AGAIN, AND RON, WE TALK ABOUT AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT TWEETS FROM MARK FINCHEM.

HE WANTS EVERYONE IN THE ORANGE JUMPSUIT AND PERPWALKS AND SEND MONEY BECAUSE WE NEED ATTORNEY HELP WITH -- HOW LONG DOES THE -- WITH THE STATEWIDE ELECTIONS, CONGRESSIONAL ELECTIONS, EVERYTHING WE'VE SEEN, HOW LONG DOES THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PUT UP WITH THAT?

>> REALLY GOOD QUESTION.

I WILL SAY THE NAME LOOMING UNSPOKEN IN ALL OF THIS, THAT IS DONALD TRUMP.

FOR A LOT OF THE FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN MOST VOCAL AND ENERGETIC IN REPUBLICAN ACTIVITIES IN ARIZONA CERTAINLY IN RECENT CYCLES, PRESIDENT TRUMP LOOMED OVER ALL OF IT.

IT WAS WHAT LOOKED TO THEM TO BE A SOLID BRAND AND A WAY FORWARD.

THAT HAS NOT RESONATED WITH ARIZONA VOTERS.

IT IS GOOD FOR GOP POLITICS BUT NOT GOOD FOR GENERAL ELECTIONS.

MARK FINCHEM IS CLINGING TO SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN GOOD TO ADVANCE FOR THE GOP, BUT ALSO INHERENTLY LIMITING, SEEMS TO ME, UNTIL DONALD TRUMP'S FUTURE IS DETERMINED MORE FINALLY.

THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF HOLDOUTS IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS WHO WON'T HOLD ON EITHER.

TED: INTERESTING, STICKING WITH YOU, RON, SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE, SOMETHING THAT WAS A SUCCESS STORY AND HAS A BIPARTISAN NATURE TO IT, A SEMICONDUCTOR FACILITY OFF THE 303 AND I-17, MASSIVE STRUCTURE, GETTING MORE MASSIVE ALL THE TIME.

IF YOU LOOKED AT THE CROWD, LOT OF DEMOCRATS THERE AND DOUG DUCEY.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE REALLY IMPORTANT STORIES OF ARIZONA THAT WILL GO A LONG WAY TOWARD UNDERSTANDING THIS STATE'S FUTURE OVER THE NEXT TEN YEARS OR MORE.

THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO FURTHER TRANSFORM OUR WORKFORCE.

ALSO TRYING TO LIVE WITHIN THE ENVIRONMENTAL REALITIES OF LIFE IN THE DESERT.

IT IS RECOGNIZING THAT WE DO NEED TO WORK TOGETHER POLITICALLY TO PULL IN ONE DIRECTION AND THIS IS BEYOND ARIZONA OR EVEN BEYOND WASHINGTON POLITICS.

THIS INVOLVES TAIWAN.

THIS IS TRYING TO PUT THE BEST FACE ON THE STATE IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS IT TO COMPETE FOR WORLD CLASS OPERATIONS.

THIS WAS A VICTORY LAP FOR A LOT OF THE FOLKS INVOLVED AND, YES, GOVERNOR DUCEY WAS RIGHT AT HOME WITH ALL OF THAT.

IT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT SHOULD BE NORMAL AND YET, IT FELT STRANGE IN ITS UNIQUENESS.

TED: AND INDEED, AGAIN, WE GOT GOVERNOR DUCEY WITH THE PHONE CALL, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION GOT THE BALL ROLLING, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ENHANCED EVERYTHING AND TOOK IT TO THE FINISH LINE.

THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN GOOD THING.

>> YEAH, IT WAS, AND TO RON'S POINT, IT SPEAKS TO THE REALLY HYPER PARTISAN CLIMATE WE FOUND OURSELVES IN OVER THE LAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS, THAT IT DID FEEL WEIRD AND AWKWARD AND FELT LIKE A RELIC FROM THE PAST.

IT IS THE KIND OF THING THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TALKED ABOUT THAT WANTING TO DO MORE REACHING ACROSS THE AISLE AND FIND THESE WAYS TO WORK TOGETHER, AND I THINK DUCEY, TO HIS CREDIT, HAS DONE THAT AS WELL, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ECONOMIC ISSUES.

THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT BIND EVERYONE TOGETHER.

TED: YEAH, YEAH, BEFORE WE GO, JEREMY, TALK ABOUT THE EDUCATION FUNDING LIMIT, THE IDEA OF A SPECIAL SESSION, SOUNDS LIKE THE GOVERNOR SAID SURE, SPECIAL SESSION, TALK ABOUT VOUCHERS AND OTHER THINGS THAT I WANT, HUH?

>> KIND OF A WAY OF SCUTTLING THE WHOLE THING, ALLEGEDLY ACCORDING TO MICHELLE UDALL, 20 AND 30 VOTES FOR AEL, ARE THE DEMOCRATS ON BOARD IF IT MEANS MONEY FOR ESA?

MONEY FOR VOUCHERS?

ELECTION LAW CHANGES THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH.

IF THEY HAVE 20 AND 40, THEY CAN CALL THEMSELVES INTO A SPECIAL SESSION, THEY DON'T NEED A SIGNATURE FOR AEL.

THERE IS NO LIMIT, AND A LOT OF REPUBLICANS SAY THIS IS THE LAST CHANCE FOR FOUR YEARS TO SEND BILL TO THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR.

HOW DO YOU LIKE THE ELECTION BILLS OR ESAs, IT SEEMS EXTRAORDINARY UNLIKELY THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE NEXT LEGISLATURE TAKES OFFICE IN JANUARY.

I EXPECT TO SIT HERE IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY AND MARCH, PLAYING A POLITICAL GAME OF CHICKEN OVER THE AEL.

TED: I ASKED HER ABOUT THE VOUCHERS, SHE SAID I COMPARE THIS TO ALL FUELS.

>> I DON'T THINK SHE'S WRONG ABOUT THAT.

ALL FUELS, FOR THOSE WHO DON'T REMEMBER, ESTIMATED TO BE $10 BILLION AND TURNED INTO 200$200 BILLION.

THIS IS ESTIMATED TO BE $35 MILLION, ALREADY OVER $300 MILLION AND THE NUMBER IS GOING TO GROW, AND I THINK THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO COME BACK AND TACKLE THEM, THAT'S THE FEAR WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO COME FROM AND HOW ARE THEY GOING TO ENSURE THAT THE SCHOOL CHOICE PROGRAM GETS ITS MONEY AND AT THE SAME TIME, DISTRICT SCHOOLS GET THE MONEY THEY ARE ENTITLED TO, THAT IS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE MONEY THEY ARE GIVEN WHICH IS WHAT THE SPENDING CAP IS ABOUT.

TED: THE LAST GOVERNOR ON THE NINTH FLOOR, GOVERNOR NAPOLITANO HAD TO HANDLE THAT ONE AND GOVERNOR HOBBS HAS TO HANDLE THIS ONE, HUH?

>> PROBABLY ONE OF THE MAJOR ISSUES SHE'S DEALING WITH FROM DAY ONE.

TED: BIG STORY, OBVIOUSLY, SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA, FORMER DEMOCRATIC SENATOR KYRSTEN SINEMA JUMPING SHIP.

WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT AND LAWSUITS WHICH ARE PROMISED TO OCCUR, RIGHT NOW 4:00 WAITING TO SEE.

THEY HAVE UNTIL MONDAY TO DO THIS?

>> FINAL DAY ON MONDAY.

>> WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT.

GENTLEMEN, APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE.

THAT IS IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

REMIND YOU ON MONDAY, WE'LL HAVE ONE OF OUR TOPICS IS GOING TO BE THE SUPREME COURT LOOK AT GERRYMANDERING IN NORTH CAROLINA.

THAT COULD BE A BIG FACTOR IN ARIZONA AS WELL, THAT DECISION.

WE'LL SEE YOU THEN.

YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.