(upbeat music) - Coming up next on this special literary edition of "Arizona Horizon."

We hear from a former Arizona reporter who wrote a book about the suicide of her mother and the author's own journey forward.

And will visit with an award-winning writer of science fiction and fantasy.

It's all next on this special edition of "Arizona Horizon."

- [Endorser] This hour of local news is made possible by contributions from the friends of PBS, members of your PBS station.

Thank you.

(light music) - [Endorser 2] "Arizona Horizon" is made possible in part by the generous support of the Pakis Family Foundation.

(light music) - Good evening and welcome to the special Literary edition of "Arizona Horizon."

I'm Ted Simons.

Former Arizona Republic Reporter Laura Trujillo is the author of a new heartfelt memoir that chronicles her search for meaning after her mother committed suicide.

The book is titled "Stepping Back from the Ledge: A Daughter's Search For Truth and Renewal."

Laura Trujillo joined us to share her story and to talk about her book.

Laura, thank you so much for joining us.

We thank you so much, and congratulations on the book.

It's kind of weird to say congratulations on the book when it's this kind of a topic, but just getting that out there has to be such an accomplishment.

The subtitle, "A Daughter's Search for Truth and Renewal."

Talk to us about that search.

- Well, thank you first for having me on here.

And when you say congratulations, it's okay because really, I know it's a memoir, but I think of it more as talking about suicide and the stigma of mental health.

And so much of that story, or of the book, is me trying to figure out why my mom killed herself.

And so many people go through that when you look at the number of people who kill themselves each year.

And so I do feel that it is a big thing to get it out there and hopeful that it helps other people talk about it.

- Indeed.

Talk about your mother.

How close were you?

What happened to her?

- Well, we were really close and she was really wonderful.

And I will say she was an incredible grandma.

I have four kids and my sister has four kids, and she was so much fun, she was a retired nurse, I thought that everything was going really well.

She had some things that didn't seem great, but like we weren't really worried about her.

And in April of 2012, my mom drove to the Grand Canyon from Phoenix and she went to the ledge and she jumped.

And I think after that happened, a lot of us talked about things, and when we pieced it all together, we could see that my mom was really troubled.

But I think each one of us had one small piece of her life, sort of like we do with other people, like you don't always talk about everyone else the piece they told you, and so we started putting it together.

- [Ted] Yeah.

- To really learn more about her.

- Yeah, and but as is often with these cases, everyone kind of looks around and says, "What could I have done?"

Or "Maybe I should have done this."

Or "If I hadn't have done that."

A lot of blame here, wasn't there?

- There was.

And I think that's pretty common.

And it's really hard afterward, I think I spent, I don't know how many years, a little bit now, but not as much, trying not to blame myself and instead saying, "I can't change what happened, but what can I do moving forward?

How can I maybe talk about my mom's story and my story to be helpful to other people, or just to be able to listen to other people's stories as well."

- Indeed.

And you have a story here, and it's a serious story as well.

You said "You wound up in a," what you called, "a sub-basement of despair.

You truly believed at the time that my children would be better off without me.

It seems so normal and obvious."

Wow.

I mean, talk to us about that.

- Yeah, it's kind of weird to...

I'm obviously not in that place anymore, but when my mom died, it was obviously a really hard time, and I felt this guilt that wouldn't go away, that I could have done something, that I should have done different things.

And I think when people say, I don't know how someone could do that, or I can't imagine it, in many ways I can because I was there.

And so it gives me a different perspective on my mom and that I really do understand that spot where you get to where it's not about anyone else, like you can't even think about other people.

You just think, "I don't wanna be in this pain, I don't want to live the way I'm living."

And I think that's to the point where my mom got, and that's to a point where I got, and I'm very lucky that I had access to mental healthcare.

So I had therapy, I had a doctor who prescribed medicine, I had people who love me, and I think the combination of that, plus maybe some luck means that I'm still here.

- You're still here, and you're able now to write about this.

How difficult was it to write this book?

- I mean, it was hard, like I will say, when people say, "Oh, it's like giving birth to a child."

I was like, "No, you have drugs when you have a baby."

So it was really hard.

And I think it came out in pieces.

I actually first started writing about it, which sounds kind of silly now, but on social media, on Instagram or on Facebook, kind of as almost like photo captions of moments of my mom and a couple people were like, "Oh, you should put them together."

And writing it was really hard.

I'm not going to pretend that it was easy, but I think it was really good to do.

And I can say at the end I was glad I did it, but during the process, I certainly, it was difficult to face things, or I feel like I don't look really great in the book, but that's life.

And that was sometimes hard to write things that are truthful, but I think I needed to look at those and other people need to look at those types of things.

- Indeed, it sounds like some members of your family needed to look at some of these things because there were secrets on all sides that are talked about in this book in a frank way.

How difficult is it now to know when it comes to your mother, when it comes to your mom, that there are things that you will never know?

- I mean, it's hard, obviously it's really hard.

And there are, I will say like 95% of the time, I think I'm okay knowing that, and that's pretty much true almost on anyone.

Even people who are alive, like you don't know everything about them.

And 5% of the time I think it's still really difficult.

And I think that is so common among people who've lost someone to suicide is that that's almost what eats away at you is that you don't know when you think that you could have helped.

And so I try really hard to put that into, "Okay, what can I do to be helpful to other people?"

Or "How could telling my mom's story maybe help that not happen to someone else?"

- Indeed.

Indeed.

You're right at one point with suicide, "Only one person gets an ending, the rest of us are left with a story abandoned mid-sentence."

Do you think it got closer to the ending with this book?

- I think so.

I mean, I think that one thing that is almost universal is that you never really know your parents.

I think you always think of them as your mom or your dad, and you don't always think of them as people.

And it was a really odd experience.

And I've had people who haven't lost their parents to suicide but maybe other ways, really learning when their parent dies about them as a person, maybe it's their career, maybe it's their friends.

And I think that was one thing that I don't wanna say I'm grateful for, but I did talk to a lot of people who knew my mom and she really became this more like robust person than the one that I knew, which was through the lens of being my mother and being a grandmother.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

The book hasn't been out too long, but we've seen some very positive reviews in New York Times and other places looked upon the book very favorably.

What kind of reaction are you getting from non-book reviewers?

What are you hearing from people?

- I mean, people are really kind, which is nice, but I am hearing from a lot of people who lost someone as well, and or people who have had mental health issues themselves or someone in the family and they've really said, "I'm glad that someone's talking about this."

Or "This makes it feel a little okay to talk about."

Or I've had people tell me about a suicide from their family or someone who's close, and these are people I knew pretty well, so I was... - [Ted] Yeah.

- I mean, somewhat surprised, it's not like people owe to tell you everything, but a lot of people have had a lot of loss and you just don't know that.

And I think anytime you are vulnerable and share your story, people feel comfortable opening up, and I am glad to be able to do a tiny bit of good maybe in that way.

- Yeah, well, I know one of the reviewers said "This book will save lives."

And that has to be rewarding to read something like that.

And it also has to be rewarding to get that story out there and so other people can know what you went through, and how what you went through can help others.

Laura Trujillo, again, I'm gonna say it again.

Congratulations on this book because that's quite an effort.

Thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you for having me.

- You bet.

Up next on "Arizona Horizon."

We hear from an award-winning novelist who specializes in science fiction and fantasy.

- I was so excited when I learned that I was gonna be the next moderator of Washington Week.

I was incredibly lucky to be mentored by Gwen Ifill, and what that gave to me was this confidence that I could be my full self, and that I was deserving in whatever spaces I was in.

Welcome to Washington Week.

I also feel this great joy in taking the helm of Washington Week, knowing that I can mold it and make it my own, but also make sure that it is still within the legacy and the tradition that made it so great for all of these years.

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Visit our website to see all the ways you can help our garden grow.

Plant a seed with Arizona PBS today.

- She's an international award-winning novelist of science fiction and fantasy.

Nnedi Okorafor was born in the US to Nigerian parents, and she's known for weaving African culture into her settings and characters.

We spoke to Nnedi Okorafor about her considerable writing career.

Nnedi, welcome to "Arizona Horizon."

It's good to have you here.

Let me start by congratulating you on your success.

I mean, you are just wildly popular, you're prolific, you're doing such a great job here.

But I want you to describe your books because I'm seeing fantasy, I'm seeing magical realism, futurism.

How would you, if you had to introduce yourself, what kind of writer would you say you were?

- Oh boy.

What kind of writer?

I would say that I am a writer of science fiction and fantasy, those are labels that people recognize, even though it's more than that, but I'm a writer of science fiction and fantasy.

And the subcategories I go under are African futurism and Africanjujuism, and it's basically very Africa-rooted narrative.

And all of my stories are just like that.

- What got you started, and especially this "Akata Woman" series, what got you started in the magical realism and the African futurism?

- Yeah, it's really, so both of my parents are, they're Nigerian immigrants, and they were taking my siblings in and me back to Nigeria from a young age, so even before I was writing, it this was a really great interest to me, like the cultural stuff, just like learning these new areas, all of that.

So that's always been a part of my background, a strong part of my background.

And so when I started writing, I also am really imaginative.

I mean, from, I was just born literally, I was just born that way.

I see a lot, I see more than what most people see.

That's a very simple way of putting it.

So when I started writing these stories, my mind immediately went back to those trips to Nigeria and meeting our relatives and all that, like, just how much that affected me in the way that I see the world, like those trips were really pivotal for me.

So when I started writing, that was where my stories started.

And then on top of that, the mystical elements, those are always something that I've been interested in just as a Nigerian-American.

They've been always, the indigenous spiritualities of Nigeria, have always been of great interest to me, so when I started writing these stories, it just came forth.

And it was like, I wasn't specifically thinking, "Oh, I'm writing fantasy here."

A lot of the things that I write about are things that people actually believe in.

So I was like weaving my imagination with those spiritualities things, those spiritual aspects, and that's kind of where the origin of what I write came from.

- Yeah, I noticed in "Akata Warrior," your dedication was "To the stories that constantly breathe on my neck.

I see you."

I mean, that in and of itself has this mystical spiritual quality.

- Yes.

Yes.

I mean, and it's deep.

It's really deep.

And like this series, it's called the Nsibidi Scripts Series, and there are three books in the series so far, "Akata Witch," "Akata Warrior," and "Akata Woman."

The way that these... What I'm doing in these narratives is there's a lot more going on than those who don't know the culture can know, that you'd be surprised at what I didn't have to make up.

There's so much, because growing up, I was always listening and hearing all of these stories and ideas around me, and those went right into the books, so there's so much going on in these books.

- Talk about your writing process.

And that's interesting that what you just said, because for those of us who aren't steeped in Nigerian culture and African futurism you know what you're writing about, and maybe an audience, a smaller audience knows.

But to reach a broader audience, how much do you tell?

How much do you explain?

- It's something that I don't worry too much about, because there are many different cultures all around the world and we all have good stories.

And what makes a good story isn't necessarily explaining every single thing, it's not an anthropology report.

At least for me, I take the character and put you right inside it.

And so you catch on, eventually you catch on, and you just kind of relax, relax in the world, and you catch on.

So when it comes to explaining, I don't explain much, but because I immerse the reader so deeply in the world, and in the story, and in the character, - [Ted] Mm-hmm.

- It doesn't need that need for explaining everything.

Like, what is this food?

What is this place?

What is this plant?

What is this cultural exchange?

The need to explain all of those things is not necessary.

- Yeah, and- - I just throw you right in.

- But you wanna make sure as well though, that your readers don't, aren't lost, and not saying "I'm not getting this."

- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

I trust.

- You trust.

- I trust the reader.

(both laughs) I have a lot of trust.

- Do you trust your characters...

I ask writers this all the time.

Do the characters ever do things that surprise you, and go their own way, and make you follow them?

- All the time.

- Ah, yeah.

- All the time.

The way that I write, I don't outline, I just sit down and start writing.

And I'm the kind of writer who the characters speak to me.

And so I've had plenty of times where I'm writing something and I will not know what's about to happen, or I think I know what's about to happen, and then the character does something completely different.

There are times where the character does something that I just don't even agree with that philosophy.

- [Ted] Yeah.

- I'm just like...

It's like I'm just this bystander who's just, I'm channeling a story, and I have to kind of watch it happen.

So my character surprise me all the time and sometimes it feels like they're... Well, it's not even feels like, they are in control of the story more than I am.

A lot of times I have to step back and let them do what they're gonna do.

And it's I think it's really enjoyable even if it's a little bit disturbing at times, (Ted laughs) but it's really the surprise of it, like, you just don't know what's about to... You never know what's gonna happen with these characters, and I really enjoy that.

- It sounds fantastic.

The creative process is always fascinating to me.

Before we let you go here, Hollywood calling, TVs, HBOs?

These kinds of...

I mean, you got a lot of stuff out there, and this is the kind of stuff that would work really well visually.

- Yep.

(both laughs) - I see.

Uh-oh.

We're keeping it hidden for now.

Is that the idea?

- Yeah, just wait for it.

Just wait for it.

Can't say anything, I can't say anything, but there are things to say, but I can't say anything.

- All right, well that's encouraging enough, and that's good enough to know.

Nnedi, thank you so much, and again, congratulations.

It's always wonderful to speak with writers, and especially successful writers who are able to do what you do, get that creative process on the page, and have others enjoy it and share it with you.

Thank you for sharing your story with us.

We appreciate it.

- Yeah, my pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

(light music) (trucks honking) - [Endorser] Along US 93 between Kingman and Lake Mead is a marker to a ghost town known as the six-year wonder.

Eight miles away is the original site of the town of White Hills, where 15 mines produced more than $12 million in gold and silver.

When word of the strike finally got out, White Hills went from nothing to a town of 1500 in two years.

At its height, White Hills boasted a post office, electric and telephone service, general stores, a schoolhouse and plenty of saloon.

By 1914, the boom had gone bust.

And by the 1930s, the ruins remained, yet the people were gone.

Today there's little left to remind us of the rapid rise and fall of White Hills.

- Crime writing draws inspiration from many aspects of life, including from the author's own experiences.

Isabella Maldonado has written a number of crime stories that draw from her law enforcement background to bring a realistic edge to her stories.

We spoke to the best-selling author about how her background helped her to write her novels.

Good to have you here.

Thank you so much for joining us.

- It is great to be here.

- Oh, that's good.

How does a law enforcement officer become a best-selling author?

- Well, I tell you what, after I guess a life of crime, you wanna write about the crime, right?

- [Ted] Sure.

- So yeah, I just... As a matter of fact, my last position that I had before retiring, I was a captain and I was the commander of special investigations and forensics.

And with that kind of background, I knew that I would wanna try to turn it into something else, and so I went for fiction.

- So did you retire to become a writer, or did you start writing after retirement?

- I retired to start a family because I just didn't think that I could...

So I took an early retirement 'cause I just didn't think I could raise kids while I was on the job.

I was on call 365 days a year.

It was crazy.

So it wasn't until I had retired that I decided that I really always wanted to write and that's what I was gonna do.

- Was there a moment, like an aha moment where you said, "This is it, this is what I'm gonna do?"

- Yes, yeah, even as a young person, I always loved reading, and so I thought "I gotta try writing, I really do."

And then it just, as I started writing, and the stories were coming and coming from me, and I'm like, "Okay, this is it, this is what I gotta do."

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you miss law enforcement though after you retired?

- I did for a little while.

I went from like being in command of an entire precinct to having a little tyrant in diapers ordering me around.

(both laughing) I'm like, "Where's my lieutenants and sergeants and stuff?"

- [Ted] Yes.

- I did miss that.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so, and now from what I read about you now, you spent five years kind of honing your craft at workshops and such.

What did you learn?

- Well, I joined writers groups, and basically what I had to learn is creative writing.

Because when you're in law enforcement, hopefully if you're doing your job right, you're not doing creative writing.

It's just the facts, ma'am.

So, it's a very different kind of skill as opposed to just getting everything out of the police reports.

- Did you find it difficult?

- It was difficult, it was very challenging, it's a whole new way of learning how to lay the facts out and how to tell them.

And I was just very blessed in that people just really, really love the books, and they're being sold all over the world now, and they've been translated into 20 languages.

- Yeah, that must be amazing when you think about that, sit back and go holy smokes.

The lead characters, we got an FBI, a special agent and a detective, these lead character are they you?

- No, I know who they are, I'll put it that way.

- [Ted] Ah okay.

- And the other people who are around them, I know who they are.

So I have two series, I'm actually starting a third, and one of the series is about the Phoenix Police Department and it features a Phoenix homicide detective.

And then another one is set back east where I grew up, and that is about an FBI agent out of the Washington Field Office.

- Interesting.

So the characters aren't you, but you know who they are.

Do you really know who they are?

Do they surprise you every once in a while?

- Every once in a while they do, but yeah, I know who they are well enough that I don't attempt to write something for them to do that is completely ridiculous.

- Yeah.

But it would seem to me, again, from a distance, that when you write a crime novel, it's not all touchy-feely, emotional, this kind of thing, you gotta get from point A to point B.

Do you use outlines?

Do you know where you're going when you start?

- Yeah, I do.

I have a point A and I have a point Z, like I know I'm gonna go from New York to LA, but how I get there, it can be a bit of a mystery.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

One of your books optioned by Netflix.

Give us an update on this.

What's the latest?

- Yeah, as a matter of fact.

So that one was "The Cipher," that's the first in the FBI agent Nina Guerrera series.

And yeah, so Netflix purchased it, Jennifer Lopez, JLo is going to star in and produce, and so the screenwriters have already been working on adapting it, and I've been in touch with them a couple of times.

I get to be also executive producer and a consultant, so that's lots of of fun.

No, I have not met JLo yet, but fingers crossed.

(both laughing) - Are you a little concerned though that when you start... And I don't care who it is, JLo or whoever it is, that these are the people you wrote and you saw, and now all of a sudden there's a whole...

But the scenes of the people, it's not exactly what you saw in your head.

- Yeah, you have to be willing to put it out there, and I had to understand.

People have asked me, well did I wanna adapt it myself?

But I am not a screenwriter, I'm a novelist, it's a totally different kind of skill, and the way you write things for people to imagine them in their heads is totally different from the screen, and I have to trust that process.

- I'm curious, what does a crime writer, best-selling author, what do you read for enjoyment?

- Well, weirdly enough, I do read everything.

I read a wide variety of stuff, everything from...

I do read crime fiction as well, but I read everything from like cookbooks, to sometimes I'll read romance, not too much of that.

Mostly, I read a lot of non-fiction, self-help stuff, I still read books on the craft of writing 'cause I find that I can always improve my craft.

- [Ted] Yes.

- And I just, I am a wide voracious reader, and I read classics and modern stuff too.

- Well, it's great speaking... Last question, I gotta ask you, 'cause we like to every once in a while at home we watch some of these true crime stories, 2020 and all this kind of... Do you ever watch those things and watch the police procedure and go, "Man, you're telling this story the wrong way?"

- Yeah, but you know what, I had to learn how to do that, because you realize, if you really, really, really are accurate, police work is like 99% boredom.

- Yeah.

- Punctuated by 1% error.

So you really can't write it like that.

Nobody would listen.

Nobody would watch.

- Yeah.

Isabella Maldonado, congratulations on your success.

Thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you for having me.

- You betcha.

- [Endorser] We wanna hear from you.

Submit your questions, comments and concerns via email at arizonahorizon@asu.edu.

When you wanna be more connected.

Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, watch us online.

(light music) - And that is it for now.

I'm Ted Simons.

Thank you so much for joining us on this special edition of "Arizona Horizon."

You have a great evening.

(upbeat music)