(upbeat music) - Coming up in the next hour, local news on Arizona PBS, on Arizona Horizon, a special edition examining issues and opportunities for older Americans.

It's coming up next on Arizona Horizon.

- [Narrator] This hour of local news is made possible by contributions from the Friends of PBS, members of your PBS station.

Thank you.

- Good evening and welcome to this special edition of Arizona Horizon.

I'm Ted Simons.

Tonight, we look at issues facing older Arizonans and we start with a growing problem of elder abuse and to learn more, we spoke with Maricopa County Attorney Allister Adel and Anita Norton, the Maricopa Association of Governments, regional domestic violence chair.

Allister Adel and Anita Norton, thank you so much for joining us.

This is a very important topic here and Allister, we'll start with you.

Older adult abuse, give us a definition of what exactly we're talking about here.

- Well, first of all, thank you for having me.

Unfortunately, it's not just children that we always hear about being abused.

It's the elderly, they're in a vulnerable position, which is why we call it vulnerable adult abuse.

It's also people that have a disability, things like that.

And oftentimes, it's those that are entrusted with their care that inflict the abuse.

- And Anita, the abuse, again, what are we talking?

It doesn't necessarily have to be physical abuse, does it?

- It's not, it takes many forms, physical abuse, psychological or emotional, financial abuse and neglect.

And then unfortunately also sexual abuse and that's on the rise.

We literally have 150% increase in this abuse in the last decade of older adults.

- And with that in mind, Anita, we have now this coalition of groups teaming up to address the issue, tell us more.

- We have the vulnerable adult protocol, which has actually partnered, and we're working with prosecutors, judges, law enforcement agencies, and other agencies that provide services for older adult abuse to make it easier to go through the court system to have better protections for the older adults.

And this is something that's been worked on for years and we've just updated the protocol so that it's getting everybody on board to provide better protections and hopefully, end this abuse.

- And Allister, the Maricopa County Attorney's office, where do you see that office in this effort?

- We are excited that we can collaborate with our partners in this.

It really takes all of us being on the same page, not just exchanging information by getting training and make sure that we are investigating and prosecuting these cases in a uniform manner to make sure that we have equal justice for everybody that's been abused.

- You mentioned vulnerability elsewhere.

You mentioned vulnerable, especially kind of emphasize that word, the vulnerabilities of older adults and domestic violence, different, aren't they?

- They are different.

And it's unfortunate because it's a crime of opportunity preying on somebody that either has a physical or mental ailment to them, illness, a disease that they're battling, or they might just be in a situation where they're heavily reliant financially on someone that they care about.

- Yeah, I need to talk to us more about how it's, this different or is it all that much different when older adults are involved?

- It is different.

One of the things too, is that because we're talking to older adults and they're interested in the care of someone else, they don't have that reporting mechanism always available.

So they figure that one in 24 cases are reported.

- The idea, Allister, of a coordinated response, was that something lacking in the past?

- It was lacking in the past.

But thankfully, the Maricopa Association of Governments, we partnered together to have these conversations about how we can do better and better serve, not just vulnerable adults, but all of those that have been victimized in situations like this.

So it's been a coordinated effort that we're really proud that we have something that is standardized and systematic now that we can rely upon to protect people.

- Right and Anita, too many silos, do you think, out there in the past?

- I beg your pardon?

- Too many silos out there, people kinda working independently and not together?

- You have that and then even just, yeah, the silence that comes with this kind of abuse, a lot of people are afraid to admit, especially if it's a family member, that's a hard thing for an older adult to admit.

And so it's a hard thing.

We have to really get educated and work together to combat this and to provide a safe place for the older adults, because many of them feel that there is no other place for them to go to.

And so we have some shelters that actually work with older adults specialized with that.

And so the more that we open up and have something available to provide a place of refuge for these older adults, I think we can prove it.

- Anita Norton, thank you so much for joining us and talking about this elder abuse issue.

Let's hope that this coordinated effort helps combat this and we get some solutions out there quickly.

Anita thank you so much.

Allister, thank you as well, we appreciate it.

- Thank you very much, Ted.

- And up next, an issue that faces many seniors as they lose the ability to manage their affairs.

- What you get from Washington week that you will not get anywhere else are the best and the brightest reporters from different media companies.

And they're able to have a real conversation about things that are happening in Washington and around the country.

It's also a show about issues that are relevant to different communities.

As the moderator, I feel this deep responsibility to bring in those other perspectives so that people understand how power and politics impact their daily lives.

- [Narrator] Friday nights at seven on Arizona PBS.

- More than a million people are currently under a conservatorship, which is a legal arrangement that made headlines this year due to a dispute between Brittany Spears and her father, but what is a conservatorship and how's it supposed to work?

To get some insight, we spoke with Lou Silverman with the Silverman Law Group.

Lou Silverman, welcome to Arizona Horizon.

Good to have you here.

And thanks for speaking with us about a conservator, what is a conservatorship?

Is this the same as a guardianship?

- No, they're two separate proceedings, Ted.

Conservatorship involves the appointment of a person or an entity to take care of the property of another person.

So their money, their real estate, their possessions, everything, a guardianship is taking care of the person.

So a guardian is responsible for health care and residential care and entertainment and travel and all the needs that a person may have on a personal level.

So there are two different positions and could be two different appointments.

- So give us a really good definition of conservatorship.

- Well, a good definition of conservatorship is really the appointment of a person for the management of the property or assets of an incompetent or incapacitated person.

And an incapacitated person is a person who is unable to manage their estate and affairs because of mental illness, mental deficiency, mental disorder, physical illness, or disability, chronic use of drugs, chronic intoxication, confinement, detention by a foreign power or disappearance.

So any of those would be the basis for the court to appoint a conservator.

And guardian would be basically the same definition, except again, that's taking care of the personal needs of the individual and not of their property.

- So are we talking family members, friends, acquaintances that are often involved in these conservatorships or are there professional groups, companies, people that basically don't even have to know the person, but can become conservators?

- Yeah, it's a little bit of both.

There are statutory priorities for who can be appointed as a conservator and who the court is going to look at for priority.

For example, if a person has actually nominated another to be a conservator, the court would consider that if the person is 14 years of age or older, and the court believes that they can make that kind of a decision, a spouse, a child, an adult child, a sibling, any relative.

And then there are also private companies that are called private fiduciaries, which are authorized by the Supreme court to act in that role.

So any of those could theoretically be the conservator and a guardian.

- How often are these things harmful?

And we bring this up because of the whole Brittany Spears situation with her father that made a lot of headlines here.

Can these be difficult, contentious situations?

- Well, they absolutely can be for a number of reasons.

The first reason would be that the person that is alleged to be incapacitated, who is called award in our system opposes and says, "I'm not incapacitated.

"I don't need the appointment of anybody "to take care of me."

The process is that a person that's applying for a conservatorship or a guardianship has to include a medical opinion of a professional, an MD that is gonna use a court form that has a bunch of questions on it that concludes whether or not the person is incapacitated.

That is the basis that the court relies on in terms of is this person in need of this kind of help.

The ward can oppose it and obtain their own medical report and have their own medical team to try to oppose it.

In addition, when a case is filed, the court appoints an attorney to represent the interests of the ward, and that attorney is advocating for the ward.

They'll go out and meet with the individual.

And if the individual opposes the appointment and the attorney believes that there's a rational objection, they're gonna step forward and make that objection, probably file something in writing.

But then also, at any court hearing oppose it.

In my experience, the ward opposes the appointment, maybe 20% of the time, just because in most cases, it's pretty obvious that the person needs help.

And that the initial medical report is fairly accurate.

- How difficult Lou, how difficult is it though to get out of a conservatorship once it's... - Once the court has made a determination that a person is incapacitated, it's tough.

It's like trying to overturn a touchdown where there's not conclusive evidence, right?

So the wards can always petition for the court to reconsider and to say, "Hey, I either didn't need it then, "or I'm better.'

And probably, I'm better as a better case, because now you're saying, even if I did need it then, I'm better.

And then again, you can file a petition.

You can ask the court to terminate the conservatorship or guardianship, and you can provide your own medical testimony.

- With that said, last question here, and we thank you for your time, critics say it's a money-making system.

Critics say it's in desperate need of reform.

That it's better oversight is needed, all of these things.

Real quickly, do you think reform is needed for the system?

- You know what Ted, reform has been an ongoing situation.

A few years ago, some of the listers and watchers may remember a series of articles in the republic by a reporter by the name of Laurie Roberts, who started reporting on a few cases that she discovered where there really was sort of gross manipulation and attorney's fees and fiduciary fees that were basically bankrupting people.

And at that time, the court didn't have a lot of good oversight over the fees that were being charged by the fiduciaries and by the attorneys.

And that led to lots of internal investigation to have a better system, which we're seeing today in terms of more supervision and more review of what people are being paid.

And they have to have good records to prove that they've performed the service and the service has been necessary, and it's been performed at a reasonable rate.

So it's all based on being paid for your hourly time.

We don't have any percentages.

You can't be paid more because the ward is a millionaire or a trillionaire.

You have to prove the value of your time.

The court accountants review things really carefully.

So there is always a certain amount of oversight that evolves as the system, as we see problems in the courts say, we gotta try to fix this.

I think it's overall an evolving process of trying to make it safer and less risky for the wards.

- Great information, Lou Silverman, Silverman Law Group.

Thank you so much for your time.

And thanks for the information, we appreciate it.

- All right, well, thanks for having me on, goodnight.

(upbeat music) - Many seniors are going virtual as a way to stay connected and feel less isolated.

Jewish Family and Children's Services recently celebrated its one-year anniversary, by providing virtual classes through its center for senior enrichment.

For more, we spoke with the centers, Jennifer Brauner.

Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us.

Good to see you again, welcome to Arizona Horizon or back to Arizona Horizon, or just back to talk, one year mark now for this program, this virtual programming for seniors on Zoom, what's this all about?

- It has been truly an incredible experience.

The program, which is free and open to all seniors in Maricopa County, we offer live classes five days a week on Zoom and a wide variety of programming for that matter.

Everything from exercise classes to lecture series, to partnerships with museums.

In fact, upcoming, we have the Georgia O'Keeffe Museum in Santa Fe, New Mexico that will be joining us for a talk as well as Kenai Fjords National Park in Alaska.

So we have incredible opportunities for our participants to join us daily, if they would like on Zoom and to engage with others.

During this time, there's been a lot of isolation and this program has allowed for helping those participants in feeling more like a sense of community with each other, building relationships and learning from one another.

It has been an incredible experience and truly the silver lining of this pandemic.

- Yeah, I wanna get back to that in a second here too, because that's so important.

But as far as these programs, are these interactive programs?

- Yes, we do have interactive programs.

They all are.

- Okay, but are any of them offered in person or are they all Zoom?

- So my program is all on Zoom five days a week.

- Okay, all right, now let's talk about the center for senior enrichment and the importance of social gatherings as you were referring to for seniors.

I mean, it really does make a difference, doesn't it?

- It sure does, it really does.

And it allows for people that have felt this isolation during this period of time to come together, engage with others and to learn new things.

There are so many programs that we offer that maybe a participant didn't even think of picking up before, like creative writing, and now they have the opportunity to do so.

So it's just been incredible for everyone.

- What kind of reaction are you getting from those are participating?

- They are providing very positive feedback, asking for us to provide more programs and they don't want it to stop.

They love the convenience of being in their own home and being able to log on to Zoom, to take a class or two, and then to go on with their day, whether they are gonna stay in, or if they're gonna go out and socialize with their friends.

It is so easy and as I had mentioned before, it's free.

So it makes sense for people to take advantage of this incredible program that we're offering.

- Have you had much reaction from the families of those participants?

- The families have also reached out to me saying that they have been so appreciative that we're providing this service to their parents.

They love the fact that this is available to them and they just want it to continue as long as it can.

- Indeed and obviously, you're gonna continue this as long, but at some point, this pandemic is gonna ease, I hope, and we're all gonna get back to some better sense of normal here, could something like this be permanent?

- Absolutely, there's no reason why it cannot be.

This program is a wonderful option for participants to join in on Zoom.

And still, as I had mentioned, go on with their day outside of their home.

There's no reason why this can't continue and it will continue and I plan on doing that.

- Very good and for people that want more information on this, where do they go?

- The best way to go to is our website at www.jfcsaz.org/events.

- All right, very good, Jennifer.

Jennifer Brauner, Jewish Family and Children's Services, the Center for Senior Enrichment.

Congratulations on one year and continued success.

- Thank you so much and again, thank you for this wonderful opportunity today.

- [Narrator] We wanna hear from you.

Submit your questions, comments and concerns via email at arizonahorizon@asu.edu.

- We finish up our focus on issues affecting Arizona seniors with a new way to keep older Americans working.

Previously retired workers are returning to the labor force as independent contractors doing on-call temporary or part-time work also known as gig work.

For some, it's due to their financial situation, for others, is just something to do.

We talked about it with Wayne Goshkarian, with the Association for Entrepreneurship, USA.

Wayne, thank you for joining us in Arizona Horizon.

We appreciate your time with us.

We're talking to retirees returning to work.

How common is this?

- Well, it's really extremely common today.

I think of my grandparents who landed at Ellis Island and they worked somewhere for 30 years and they had a nice pension plan and social security.

And they sat in that rocking chair and their house was paid off and life was good, but so much has changed since then.

Many of us who plan to stay at a company for a long period of time get bought out.

Our pension plans are not funded properly, one thing or another, or because of putting kids through school for education and life challenges, we didn't save as much as we used to and we get to 65 and we look at that social security notice and say, "You're gonna get $1,700 a month "from social security."

And you say, "You know what?

"I think I'm gonna have to go back to work "or have to continue working."

So I think a lot of people are faced with that today.

- And that I understand that for those of lower income, even mid income for the higher income though, that are somewhat set, as far as retirement, a lot of those folks who are going back to work as well, what are the reasons in there?

- Well, you're actually looking at one.

I retired myself in 2006 and frankly, I got bored.

I had two small kids.

I was a single parent.

I had enough money to sustain myself for the rest of my life.

But as the kids got older, I just got bored to death.

I mean, we literally spend most of our entire life, adult age working, getting up in the morning, being productive, social contact with coworkers, having a purpose and to get up one day and say, "Oh, you don't need to do that anymore.

"I'm gonna retire.

"I'm getting my social security.

"My pension check's coming in, the house is paid off," it's boring, to be honest with you.

I mean, I went through it myself.

So I went back to work.

I started another company.

I'm 62 myself.

I got my notice that I could start collecting at 62, $1,700 a month.

And I say, what am I gonna do with that?

So I muzzle continue working and growing a business and enjoying life.

- Starting a new business, obviously an option for some, an option for you, for others though, there's the gig economy.

How does that factor into all this?

- Well, I think the gig economy, with the internet, smartphones has really empowered someone sitting at home and earning an income.

I mean, it gives you the flexibility of working at home, not having to have set hours, making as little or as much as you want.

And I think it's empowered, it's interesting during the coronavirus, I was at a restaurant and I asked the waitress, "Well, what is it like to wear this mask all day long?"

This is kind of the beginning of it.

And she says, "Well, I sell them on eBay."

The internet and the smartphone has changed everything.

And just watch an episode or two of Shark Tank, entrepreneurship, the gig economy has really expanded in a way to allow almost anybody with a passion or desire to do something, to be able to make money as much or as little as they want.

- So what should, with all this in mind, what should retirees take into account when preparing for retirement and maybe looking past retirement and saying, "I wouldn't mind getting back into the workforce."

- Right, well, let's take the people that are, we'll call it the bottom two thirds, the wealthy, they're set, they got their nice houses, maybe multiple houses, and they're just working because they got nothing else better to do.

And they figure, but those bottom two, the two thirds are sitting in saying, "Well, look, first of all, "you should have all your money in the stock market "because this stock market could change.

"And then you've lost most of your assets."

So really, secure your assets in a more suitable place, but more importantly, think about what are your goals?

What's your vision, values and goals?

Are you wanting to travel more?

Well, then you have to start thinking about how much extra money you're gonna have to make to continue that lifestyle.

Many parents or rather grandparents are actually taking care of their kids.

Their daughter has two kids and she got divorced and now they're finding themselves raising another family.

Things that didn't occur when my grandparents were alive.

So retirees are facing, in fact, someone in our office, her son who has two kids just got twins.

So now he has four children.

She's finding herself having to care for them and help with those four grandchildren that she has.

So retirees are faced with so much different set of circumstances than they did 30 or 40 years ago.

- Interesting stuff.

Wayne Goshkarian, Association for Entrepreneurship, USA.

Sir, good stuff.

Thank you for joining us, we appreciate it.

- Thank you very much, appreciate it.

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- And that is it for now, I'm Ted Simons.

Thank you so much for joining us on this special edition of Arizona Horizon.

You have a great evening.

(upbeat music)