HAWAII’S MIMINUM WAGE IS $10.10 AN HOUR.

WHILE IT’S MORE THAN THE FEDERAL RATE, THE COST OF LIVING HERE IS ALSO SHARPLY HIGHER THAN MOST STATES.

FOR YEARS, THERE’S BEEN A BATTLE OVER HIKING THE STATE MINIMUM WAGE TO BRING IT CLOSER TO A LIVING WAGE.

BUT IS THAT FEASIBLE FOR EMPLOYERS?

THE ISSUE IS EXPECTED TO BE DEBATED AGAIN DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI’I START NOW.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M OLENA HEU.

EVERY YEAR STATE LAWMAKERS DEBATE THE ISSUE OF RAISING HAWAII’S MINIMUM WAGE.

BUT THE LAST TIME A BILL WAS PASSED WAS BACK IN 2014.

SINCE THEN, OUR COST OF LIVING HAS GONE UP, A PANDEMIC PUT A DENT IN THE ECONOMY AND RISING INFLATION IS TIGHTENING THE SQUEEZE ON OUR WALLETS EVEN MORE THAN WE’RE USED TO.

FIGURES FROM THE STATE SHOW THAT A SINGLE PERSON NEEDS TO EARN BETWEEN 14 TO 19 DOLLARS AN HOUR TO BE CONSIDERED SELF‑SUFFICIENT.

THAT’S TAKES INTO ACCOUNT THINGS LIKE WHICH COUNTY THEY LIVE IN AND PAYING FOR BASIC NEEDS LIKE HOUSING, TRANSPORTATION, FOOD AND HEALTH CARE.

THIS WEEK A BILL AIMED AT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREMENTALLY IN THE STATE TO $18 BY 2026 PASSED TWO COMMITTEES IN THE SENATE.

IT NOW AWAITS A THIRD READING.

SO IS THIS THE YEAR LEGISLATION TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE WILL PASS?

WE’LL SEE WHAT OUR PANEL THINKS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

DEMOCRATIC REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD ONISHI WAS BORN AND RAISED IN HILO.

HE SERVES DISTRICT 3 WHICH STRETCHES FROM SOUTH HILO TO PUNALUU ON HAWAII ISLAND.

HE IS CURRENLTY THE CHAIR FOR THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND TOURISM.

GAVIN THORNTON IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HAWAII APPLESEED CENTER FOR LAW AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE.

THE ADVOCACY GROUP WORKS ON VARIOUS INITIATIVES AIMED AT CHANGING SYSTEMS THAT PERPETUATE INEQUALITY AND INJUSTICE.

WENDY LAROS IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE KONA‑KOHALA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

THE NON‑PROFIT CONSISTS OF MORE THAN 400 BUSINESS MEMBERS REPRESENTING A VARIETY OF INDUSTRIES, WITH THE GOAL OF ADVOCATING FOR A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT IN WEST HAWAII.

AND CARL BONHAM IS A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII’S ECONOMIC RESEARCH ORGANIZATION OR U‑HERO.

HE’S CURRENTLY THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE ORGANIZATION WHICH REGULARLY CONDUCTS RESEARCH AND FORECASTS ON ISSUES CENTRAL TO HAWAII.

THANK ALL FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

I LOOK FORWARD TO THIS CONVERSATION.

AND WE HAVE ACTUALLY GOT A COMMENT AND A QUESTION THAT ALREADY CAME IN.

ONE OF OUR VIEWERS WILL FROM PALOLO SAYS, GIVEN THAT'S SELF‑SUFFICIENCY STANDARD FOR 2022 ACCORDING TO THE DBEDT DATA IS 19.56 AN HOUR.

WHICH MEANS SINGLE ADULT WHERE WITH NO CHILDREN WORKING FULL‑TIME WITH EMPLOYEE SPONSORED HEALTH CARE NEEDS TO EARN THAT MUCH JUST IS TO IS SURVIVE.

HOW DOES HOUSE LEADERSHIP JUSTIFY INCREASING MINIMUM WAGE TO $18 BY 2030 COMPARED TO THE SENATE PROPOSAL TO GET THERE BY 2026?

WELL, LET'S SEE IF CARL BONHAM HAS A COMMENT ABOUT THAT.

>> GREAT QUESTION.

THERE ARE REASONS TO NOT MOVE QUITE AS QUICKLY TO RAISING, BASICALLY SLOW DOWN THE RATE OF INCREASE.

AND MOST OF THOSE HAVE TO DO WITH THE UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT THE IMPACT WILL BE IN TERMS OF PEOPLE'S HOURS, WHETHER PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO TRANSITION INTO JOBS, IN OTHER WORDS, THERE ARE POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS FROM RAISING MINIMUM WAGE TOO FAST AND TOO HIGH A LEVEL.

AND NOBODY REALLY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT THE RIGHT LEVEL IS.

SO THE GRADUAL APPROACH, I ACTUALLY JUST SAW THE WAY THINK IS THE HOUSE MAJORITY PACKAGE AND THE BILL THAT IS GOING TO BE INTRODUCED AND I ACTUALLY LIKE THE FACT THAT'S MORE GRADUAL.

I UNDERSTAND THAT EARNING MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T COMPLETELY COVER COST OF LIVING HAWAII.

THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

IT'S A HUGE ISSUE.

ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT ‑‑ THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO RAISE THE WAGE FOR SURE.

LOOK AT COST OF LIVING HAWAII THE MOST EXPENSIVE STATE IN THE COUNTRY AND IF YOU ADJUST TOTAL INCOME FOR THE EFFECTS OF THAT COST OF LIVING, WE'RE DOWN AT NUMBER 4, NUMBER 5 AT THE LOWEST REAL INCOME IN THE COUNTRY.

SO WE DEFINITELY NEED TO RAISE THE WAY, MINIMUM WAGE, OTHERWISE, WHY HAVE IT?

AND BUT I DO LIKE THE SLIGHTLY MORE GRADUAL APPROACH.

>>Olena: YOU HAVE ALSO DONE RESEARCH OVER AT THE APPLESEED CENTER FOR LAW AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE.

WHAT KIND OF NUMBERS ARE YOU SEE BEING AS FAR AS HOW ARE PEOPLE ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING, SURVIVE IN HAWAII, AND WHAT KIND OF MINIMUM WAGE DO YOU THINK IS BEST FOR OUR COMMUNITY?

>> WE KNOW THAT FOLKS IN HAWAII ARE REALLY STRUGGLING.

NEARLY HALF OF HAWAII RESIDENTS ARE NOT EARNING ENOUGH TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

CARL CAN TELL YOU A LOT ABOUT HOW FOLKS ARE LEAVING THE STATE.

THAT HAS BEEN ATTRIBUTED TO THE HIGH COST OF LIVING AND THE LOW WAGES.

FOR US, IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LIKE IF YOU ARE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD FOOD AND SHELTER.

AND YOU CAN'T RIGHT NOW.

SO WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THERE AND GET THERE QUICKLY.

>>Olena: REPRESENTATIVE, THE SENATE JUST READ PROPOSAL.

CARL TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HOUSE PACKAGE.

WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS PACKAGE?

>> WELL, WE'VE BEEN WORKING THROUGH THE WHOLE INTERIM FROM LAST SESSION, ENDS OF LAST SESSION, TO THIS SESSION.

TO REALLY COME UP WITH A PACKAGE THAT WILL ADDRESS THE PROBLEMS THAT LOW WAGE EARNERS ARE FACING IN HAWAII.

THAT IS COUPLED ALSO WITH THE MINIMUM WAGE.

SO OUR PROPOSAL IN THE MAJORITY PACKAGE IS ONE, THAT ADDRESS IS NOT JUST THE MINIMUM WAGE, BUT OTHER, LOW WAGE EARNERS TO HELP THEM WITH GETTING MORE MONEY INTO THEIR POCKETS, SOONER, AND AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

SO OUR PACKAGE INCLUDES AN EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT MAKING IT REFUNDABLE.

FOOD EXCISE TAX CREDITS, MAKING IT PERMANENT AT $150 PER QUALIFIED EXEMPTION.

WE ARE ADDRESSING MINIMUM WAGE ON A GRADUAL DOLLAR A YEAR INCREASE.

WE ARE ALSO COUPLING THAT WITH A INCREASE IN THE TIP CREDIT TO HELP RESTAURANTS AND BUSINESSES WITH TIPPED EMPLOYEES.

THOSE TIPPED EMPLOYEES THOUGH HAVE TO BE MAKING SEVEN DOLLARS OVER THE MINIMUM WAGE BEFORE THEY CAN APPLY TIP CREDIT.

IT'S NOT GUYS THAT ARE MAKING MINIMUM WAGE AND THEN REDUCING THEIR TOTAL INCOME.

AND WE ARE ALSO LOOK AT EXPANDING THE HOUSEHOLD AND DEPENDENT CARE CREDIT.

IT'S CURRENTLY AT UNDER 13 YEARS OF AGE FOR THE DEPENDENT.

BUT WE'RE EXPANDING THAT TO REMOVE THE AGE LIMIT SO THAT THESE EXPENSES TAKING OF YOUR DEPENDENTS ARE CLAIMABLE.

QUALIFIED EXPENSES ARE CLAIMABLE.

AND WE'RE ALSO PUTTING TOGETHER AN OUTREACH PROGRAM TO THE DEPARTMENT OF TAXATION TO HELP LOW WAGE EARNERS LOOK AT THEIR WITHHOLDING FORMS, W4 FORMS, TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE NOT BEING OVERTAXED ON THEIR WEEKLY, BI‑WEEKLY OR MONTHLY PAYCHECKS.

SO TO TRY TO GET MORE MONEY TO THEM EVERY PAY PERIOD AND MINIMIZE THE AMOUNT OF TAXES THEY'RE PAID BECAUSE OF THEIR LOW INCOME BRACKET.

>>Olena: AND I SEE CARL ACTUALLY HAS A COMMENT OR A QUESTION IN REGARDS TO YOUR STATEMENT.

>> SO IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT, THING THAT PROMPTED ME TO THINK ABOUT THIS WAS THE WITHHOLDING TAX DISCUSSION.

AND I GUESS I WONDER WHY WE'RE TAXING MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS AT ALL.

ON THE INCOME TAX.

IF YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY WHO IS WORKING FULL‑TIME, WHICH MANY MINIMUM WAGE JOBS ARE NOT FULL‑TIME EMPLOYMENT.

WHICH IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE HAVE TWO AND THREE JOBS, BUT SOMEONE WORKING FULL‑TIME AT TODAY'S MINIMUM OF $10.10, WOULD HAVE A GROSS INCOME OF ROUGHLY $20,000.

WOULD PAY ALMOST A THOUSAND DOLLARS, 8 TO $900 IN STATE INCOME TAX.

I KNOW WE CAN'T, I'M NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT ITC OR ANYTHING ELSE.

AND IT JUST STRIKES ME AS THAT'S A GOOD MOVE TO LOOK AT.

CHANGE THOSE MARGINAL TAX BRACKETS UP TO 20, $30,000 INCOME RANGE.

>>Olena: GAVIN?

>> GOING OFF WHAT CARL WAS SAYING, THOSE INCOME TAXES ARE ON TOP OF THE GENERAL EXCISE TAX.

WHICH PEOPLE PAYING EVERY TIME THEY PAY THEIR RENT.

EVERY TIME THEY GO TO THE GROCERY STORE.

IT HITS LOW INCOME FAMILIES ESPECIALLY HARD.

SO LOW INCOME FAMILIES END UP PAYING.

HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME.

THAN HIGHER EARNERS DO.

SO WE'RE HUGE FANS OF THE EITC, REALLY IMPORTANT WAY OF GETTING MONEY INTO THE POCKETS OF LOW INCOME WORKING FAMILIES.

BUT WE'RE ALSO CONCERNED THAT YOU JUST CAN'T DO THAT AT THE SCALE THAT MINIMUM WAGE COULD.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN $40 MILLION FOR A EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT VERSUS WELL OVER A BILLION DOLLARS IN THE POCKETS OF LOW INCOME WORKERS THROUGH A MINIMUM WAGE BOOST.

>>Olena: THANK YOU.

THANK TO YOU OUR VIEWERS.

>> THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A POINT OF DISCUSSION IS WHO ACTUALLY IS MAKING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

AND WHAT KINDS OF JOBS.

HOW OLD THEY ARE.

DOES A STUDENT WHO IS GETTING THEIR FIRST JOB AT 16 DESERVE $18 AN HOUR WAGE?

HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THE BUSINESSES?

SO OUR PLAN IS NOT JUST WAY SEE IN THIS PACKAGE.

IT ALSO INCLUDES HOUSING, RENTAL HOUSING CREDITS, OTHER TYPES OF ASSISTANCE TO FAMILIES, IN ORDER FOR THEM, ESPECIALLY ON A LOW WAGE EARNERS.

HELP THEM WITH THE COST OF LIVING.

>>Olena: REPRESENTATIVE ONISHI, AS YOU JUST MENTIONED, HOW DOES IT AFFECT BUSINESSES TURN IT OVER TO WENDY WHO IS ACTUALLY REPRESENTING ABOUT 400 DIFFERENT BUSINESSES OVER ON THE KOHALA COAST.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YEAH, JUST WHAT REPRESENTATIVE ONISHI WAS STARTING TO TALK ABOUT, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THIS MINIMUM WAGE IS ACTUALLY GENERATED AND PAID FOR BY THE BUSINESSES.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE BUSINESSES CAN ACTUALLY CONTINUE TO SURVIVE AND TO THRIVE SO THAT'S JOBS ARE THERE FOR THESE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR ALL OF US REALLY.

SO SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT AND EXAMINE.

WE WILL SUPPORT SOMETHING IF IT MAKES SENSE.

IF IT'S REASONABLE.

SO THIS WEEK, WHEN SENATE BILL 2018 CAME OUT, WE OPPOSED THAT BILL.

IT'S JUST TOO MUCH, TOO HIGH, TOO FAST AND IT WOULD HAVE SEVERE CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR BUSINESSES ESPECIALLY OUR SMALL BUSINESSES.

SO THE SB2, 2018 WAS GOING TO $12 IN OCTOBER OF THIS YEAR.

THEN IN FOUR SHORT YEARS GOING TO $18 AN HOUR.

THAT'S ALMOST 80% OF AN INCREASE FROM TODAY AND THAT IS JUST BIG CHUNKS AND WHAT CARL WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, THAT UNCERTAINTY.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NEXT FOUR YEARS IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND WHEN YOU PUT IN MINIMUM WAGE LAWS, THAT IS BINDING.

AND SO THEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOUR EMPLOYERS ARE FORCED TO DO.

NO MORE FLEXIBILITY ESPECIALLY IF SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE JUST LIKE WE JUST WENT THROUGH IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, WHO KNOWS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

IF WE DON'T HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY, THEN IT'S HARDER TO SURVIVE AND TO ADJUST.

>>Olena: WHAT ARE THE BUSINESSES SAYING ABOUT FINDING WORKERS AND PAYING THEM?

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH ACTUAL FINDING WORKERS THAT WILL SHOW UP FOR WORK.

WHAT ARE THEY CONVEYING TO YOU ABOUT THIS PANDEMIC ABOUT LABOR AND HOW THEY'RE MAKE ENDS MEET AS WELL?

>> ACROSS THE BOARD, THE LABOR SHORTAGE IS THE BIGGEST CONCERN.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY HAPPENING.

BUT HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AND THERE IS QUITE A FEW VARIABLES I THINK THAT ARE IN PLAY.

ONE OF THOSE HAPPENS TO BE THIS LATEST SURGE AND HOW THAT IMPACTS PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO SHOW UP FOR WORK IF YOU'RE SICK.

BUT THEN CLOSE CONTACTS, HAVING TO STAY HOME IS ALSO IMPACTING BUSINESSES.

LET'S JUST HOPE THAT THIS WILL WANE AND WE WON'T HAVE THIS AS SUCH A BIG ISSUE.

IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

THAT'S WHAT WE HOPE.

>>Olena: CARL, I THINK YOU HAD A STATEMENT.

>> YEAH, THERE'S, WHO IS EARNING MINIMUM WAGE?

IS REALLY EXCELLENT, POINT.

SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY OUGHT TO HAVE BETTER DATA AND THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR REALLY OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO TELL US.

FOR THE UI PROGRAM, THEY'RE COLLECTING FROM EVERY BUSINESS WAGES, PEOPLE ARE EARNING.

AND THEY HAVE TO ALSO BE COLLECTING HOURS WORKED SO WE COULD ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF CHANGING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

AND THEY HAVEN'T PROVIDED THAT INFORMATION.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE WAGE DATA THAT IS AVAILABLE, RIGHT NOW, THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY PEOPLE MAKING LESS THAN, MAKING EVEN THE CURRENT MINIMUM WAGE.

LOOK AT RESTAURANTS AND BARS AND FOOD SERVICE, PROBABLY THE PLACE WHERE MOST PEOPLE ARE EARNING CLOSE TO THE MINIMUM WAGE ARE IN CHILD CARE ACTUALLY.

AND SO IF YOU LOOK AT COUNTER HELP, IN A RESTAURANT, FROM 2020, MOST RECENT WAGE GOOD QUALITY WAGE DATA WE HAVE, THE FIRST COUNTER WORKERS MAKING OVER $11 AN HOUR.

SO THE INITIAL IMPACT IS GOING TO BE RELATIVELY SMALL AND IN FACT, FROM THE EPI ESTIMATES, ROUGHLY 60% OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE IMPACTED BY RAISING MINIMUM WAGE EVEN TO $15 AN HOUR, WOULD BE PEOPLE WELL OVER, NOT TEENAGERS.

SO 25 PLUS.

AND WELL OVER HALF OF THEM ARE LIVING BELOW THE POVERTY LEVEL.

>>Olena: THANK YOU.

REPRESENTATIVE ONISHI LAST SESSION SEEMED THERE WAS A BILL THAT WOULD RAISE MINIMUM WAGE AS WELL AND YOU DECIDED NOT TO SCHEDULE A HEARING FOR THAT BILL.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY?

>>.

WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE WERE NOT WORKING.

LUCKILY, WE HAD FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STEP IN TO NOT ONLY HELP THE PUBLIC BUT ALSO STATE GOVERNMENT AND COUNTY GOVERNMENTS WERE IN DIRE NEED OF HELP.

IT DIDN'T SEEM THAT IT WAS THE CORRECT TIME TO TRY TO SADDLE BUSINESSES THAT WERE STRUGGLING WITH HAVING A WAGE INCREASE.

WE MADE THE COMMITMENT LAST SESSION THAT WE WOULD THROUGH THE INTERIM, LOOK AT THE MINIMUM WAGE ISSUE, LOOK AT THE ISSUES OF LOW INCOME WAGE EARNERS AND PROBLEMS THAT OUR A.L.I.C.E.

FAMILIES FACING ADDRESS THIS IT THIS SESSION.

WE BELIEVE THAT OUR PROPOSAL IS BALANCED APPROACH TO TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE ISSUES.

>>Olena: THANK YOU TO OUR VIEWERS.

WE'RE GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AND I WILL GET TO THEM AS SOON AS I CAN.

I KNOW GAVIN HAD A COMMENT IN REGARDS TO REPRESENTATIVE'S STATEMENT.

>> LIKE OUR VIEWERS, THERE'S JUST SO MUCH TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

IT'S SUCH A INTERESTING ISSUE.

SUCH AN IMPORTANT ONE.

JUST A FEW QUICK COMMENTS.

ONE, IS REGARDING WHO WOULD IT IMPACT.

CARL HAD MENTIONED FIGURE OF I THINK 60% OR MORE MINIMUM WAGE EARNERS, 25 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER.

LOOKED ISSUE 2 OR 3 YEARS AGO.

90% PEOPLE AT LEAST 20 YEARS OLD WHO WOULD BE IMPACTED BY MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE.

>> NOT NECESSARILY JUST MINIMUM WAGE EARNERS.

OTHER POINT I WANTED TO MAKE IN RESPONSE TO REPRESENTATIVE ONISHI, THERE'S NEVER REALLY A CONVENIENT TIME TO MAKE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE.

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT 2014, BACK AT THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE TESTIMONY THEN, THEY TALKED ABOUT HOW WE'RE STILL COMING OUT OF THE RECESSION.

THE IF YOU DON'T MIND, LET ME READ YOU A QUOTE.

>> HUGE INCREASE FOR BUSINESS AT A TIME WHEN THE ECONOMIC RECOVERY FOR MANY INDUSTRY AND BUSINESSES STILL FRAGILE.

BILL HARMS LOCAL BUSINESSES.

STATE ECONOMY AND JOB CREATION BECAUSE IT CONTAINS STEEP INCREASE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE.

VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY.

2014, TO 2018, WE SAW REALLY GOOD INCREASES IN UNEMPLOYMENT, SO OUR UNEMPLOYMENT RATE DROPPED BY 52%.

TO RECORD LOWS.

NUMBER OF RESTAURANTS SERVER JOBS ROSE BY 32%.

A LOT OF THOSE FEARS ARE UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE THEY FOR CERTAIN THAT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

CERTAINLY DIDN'T LAST TIME AROUND.

THE OTHER LAST POINT I WANT TO MAKE ON THIS IS WHILE WE'RE WAITING, PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING.

WE HAVE BEEN UPDATED MINIMUM WAGE SINCE 2018.

EFFECT OF INFLATION ON THAT MINIMUM WAGE EARNERS HAVE LOST $2,000.

JUST FROM TIME PASSING AND US DOING NOTHING TO SOME OF US MAYBE THAT'S A SURFBOARD OR TWO, TO MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS, THAT IS LIKE A MONTH OR TWO OF RENT OR UTILITY BILLS.

IT'S A HUGE DEAL FOR FOLKS.

WE CAN'T PUT IT OFF YEAR AFTER YEAR.

>>Olena: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT BUSINESSES REACTING TO THIS?

>> YEAH, WE ACTUALLY ARE PARTNERING ACROSS THE STATE AND DOING A SURVEY, SO THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE HAWAII, OUR STATE CHAMBER IS SPEARHEADING THIS WITH CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE ON KAUAI, MAUI, HERE ON HAWAII ISLAND, EVEN MOLOKAI.

AND ALSO, BUSINESSES ASSOCIATIONS.

AND SO WE SENT IT OUT AND I HAVE SOME PRELIMINARY DATA.

AND JUST AS OF TODAY, BECAUSE THE SURVEYS OPEN UNTIL FEBRUARY 5.

SO IT'S NOT PUBLISHED YET.

OVER HALF OF, WELL, I'LL START.

AMOUNT OF BUSINESSES SO FAR ARE 377.

62% OF THE RESPONDENTS HAVE 50 OR FEWER EMPLOYEES.

AND OVER HALF OF THESE BUSINESSES WOULD NEED TO REDUCE STAFF IF THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS INCREASED TO $15 AN HOUR.

67 WOULD REDUCE STAFF IF THE INCREASE WENT TO 18.

33% INDICATED THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO SHUT DOWN THEIR COMPANY ENTIRELY IF THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS INCREASED TO $18 AN HOUR.

SO THIS IS SURVEY.

QUESTIONNAIRE.

BUT THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM THE BUSINESSES AND SOME VERY NEW AND RELEVANT DATA.

>>Olena: THANK YOU.

I'VE GOT COMMENTS STRAIGHT FROM THE VIEWERS.

AND FROM HAWAII KAI.

SAYS, INCREASES NEED TO HELP GROW THE ECONOMY.

PEOPLE WHO MAKE LIVABLE WAGES ARE THE ONES WHO SPEND MONEY FOR GOODS AND SERVICE.

JAMIE FROM FACEBOOK SAYS, ANYONE WHO FOOLISH ENOUGH TO QUESTION WHETHER THE MINIMUM SHOULD BE RAISED, YOU LIVE ON MINIMUM WAGE FOR ONE YEAR AND LET US KNOW HOW FUN IT WAS.

ANOTHER COMMENT, THE CURRENT UNPROVEN ARGUMENTS AGAINST RAISING MINIMUM WAGE ARE THE SAME ARGUMENTS THAT WERE USED IN 1938.

WHEN THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS JUST 25 CENTS AN HOUR.

TOM FROM WAIKIKI.

ANYBODY WANT TO RESPOND?

REPRESENTATIVE?

>> I JUST WANTED TO COMMENT THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

THAT'S NOT A QUESTION.

I THINK BOTH HOUSES, I ARE COMMITTED TO COMING UP WITH A PLAN TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE.

BUT I WOULD QUESTION EVEN IF X AMOUNT OF PERCENT OF PEOPLE ARE OVER 20, MAKING THE MINIMUM WAGE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY DATA HOW MANY OF THEM ARE MAKING THE MINIMUM WAGE OR LESS BECAUSE THEY'RE TIP EMPLOYEES.

>> YOU CAN ONLY MAKE LESS THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE IF YOU'RE EARNING SEVEN DOLLARS AN HOUR OVER THE MINIMUM WAGE.

SO THE MINIMUM WAGE AS A GAUGE OF HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE EARNING IS NOT THAT ACCURATE UNLESS WE HAVE FULL DATA.

AND AS DR. BONHAM MENTIONED, WE WOULD HOPE THAT DLIR, DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AND INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS WOULD BE ABLE PROVIDE US THAT DATA.

BUT THEY'RE UNABLE TO.

WE HAVE INTRODUCED THIS YEAR A BILL TO CREATE OUR OWN STATE DATA HUB AN THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STATES ALREADY THAT HAVE STARTED TO COLLECTS THEIR OWN LABOR DATA BECAUSE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE DOESN'T COVER ALL OF THE INFORMATION THAT IS NEEDED TO REALLY ANALYZE STATE WAGES AND WHERE THE WORKERS ARE AND HOW MUCH THEY'RE EARNING.

SO WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF DOING THAT ALSO.

IN ORDER TO GET BETTER DATA IN THE FUTURE.

YOU KNOW, AND 2014, YES.

WHEN WE RAISED MINIMUM WAGE, BUSINESSES SAID, NO, IT'S TOO EARLY.

WE'RE COMING OUT OF THE RECESSION.

BUT WHAT EVERYBODY FORGETS IS WE HAD THIS TREMENDOUS SURGE IN TOURISM.

AND THAT CREATED THOUSANDS OF JOBS IN ALL PART OF THE OUR ECONOMY.

WENT FROM 6 MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR TO OVER 8.

THAT IS HUGE INCREASE IN FOUR YEARS.

AND THAT AFFECTED OUR ECONOMY AND THE REASONS WHY OUR ECONOMY BOOMED DURING THAT TIME.

AND SO YOU KNOW, WE'RE COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

WE'RE HOPING THAT THE PANDEMIC REALLY BUSINESSES WILL BE ABLE TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET.

ONE OF THINGS WE DID DURING THE PANDEMIC WAS WE MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE STATE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE RATE.

TO HELP SMALL BUSINESSES.

IN FACT, ALL BUSINESSES, BUT WE ARE COMING UP ON HAVING TO REPLENISH THAT UNEMPLOYMENT FUND.

SO WE ARE TAKING MEASURES.

WE HAVE TWO BILLS THAT WILL ADDRESS FORCE THE BUSINESS SECTOR THE AMOUNT OF TAXES THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE REQUIRED TO PAY TO HELP REPLENISH OUR UNEMPLOYMENT FUND.

AND DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE BORROWED OVER $700 BILLION.

FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

WE WERE ABLE TO REPAY THAT MONEY.

BUT WENDY PROBABLY KNOWS, IF WE DON'T REPLENISH THAT FUND, BUSINESSES ARE NOT ONLY GOING TO BE HIT BY THE STATE UNEMPLOYMENT TAX, BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO COME IN TAX THEM EVEN MORE SO THAT FUND GETS REPLENISHED.

WE ARE WORKING ON MANY FRONTS.

>>Olena: TALKING ABOUT DATA, DR. BONHAM, DO YOU HAVE ANY DATA THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH US?

>> WELL, I WAS, I'M GLAD THAT REP ONISHI BROUGHT UP THE FACT THAT WE HAD A TOURISM BOOM POST 2014 AND SOMEONE WHO OFTEN TRIES TO PRODUCE FORECASTS THAT ARE REASONABLE, IT'S EASY TO GET IT WRONG.

TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.

AND SO RIGHT NOW, WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WAGES HAVE ALREADY RISEN IN SOME SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY SIGNIFICANTLY.

AND SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN EARNING MINIMUM WAGE AREN'T RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF THE LABOR SHORTAGES.

AND SO THAT WILL HELP TO EASE THE TRANSITION, ACTUALLY, WHAT I WANTED TO GET AT WAS WENDY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE SURVEY THAT IS BEING DONE AND BUSINESSES REPORTING THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LET PEOPLE GO.

THAT MAY VERY WELL BE THE CASE.

THERE ARE CERTAINLY IS A POINT.

THE MINIMUM WAGE WAS $150 AN HOUR, RIGHT NOW, THERE WOULDN'T BE VERY MANY PEOPLE WORKING.

THOSE JOBS WOULDN'T EXIST.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE EXACT CUT OFF IS.

WHAT BUSINESSES WILL OFF HE IGNORE, PARTICULARLY FOR RESTAURANTS, EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS IN THE STATE WILL FACE THE EXACT SAME COST CHANGE.

EVERYONE WILL FACE THE SAME INCREASE IN COSTS.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY RAISE THEIR PRICES.

SO PARTICULARLY IN RESTAURANT.

RETAIL, IT'S MUCH HARDER TO DO BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO COMPETE WITH AMAZON.

AND SO IT'S NOT REALLY APPLES TO APPLES.

AND BECAUSE LABOR IS NOT 100% OF THE COST OF A MEAL, EVEN INCREASING AN HOURLY WAGE BY A FEW DOLLARS IS LIKELY TO ONLY RAISE A PLATE LUNCH BY 30, 40, MAYBE FIFTY CENTS.

SO IT DOESN'T DESTROY BUSINESS AND IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY DESTROY JOBS.

THE PROBLEM IS WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT IT STARTS TO BITE AND WHEN IT STARTS TO NEGATIVELY IMPACT WORKERS AND BUSINESSES.

>>Olena: I RECALL WORKING THREE JOBS AT ONE TIME.

WOULD YOU SAY THAT THERE ACTUALLY CERTAIN NUMBER AND AMOUNT AT THAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE GET BY?

>> WE KNOW THE NUMBER.

TALKED ABOUT IT.

IT'S THAT AROUND $19 AN HOUR FIGURE IS PRETTY SAFE BET.

ON WHAT IT WOULD TAKE FOR A SINGLE ADULT WITH NO KIDS TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

BUT IF YOU DON'T MIND, THERE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS I WANTED TO MENTION.

I THINK EVERYBODY ON THIS PANEL RIGHT NOW WOULD LOVE IT IF WE HAD A CRYSTAL BALL OR CONCRETE DATA THAT TOLD US WHAT WOULD HAPPEN.

IF WE INCREASED THE MINIMUM WAGE A CERTAIN AMOUNT, CERTAIN RATE OF TIME.

BUT WE DON'T.

AND IN THE REASON WHY I'M SUCH A STRONG SUPPORTER OF INCREASING MINIMUM WAGE IN A SIGNIFICANT WAY IS BECAUSE OF THE DATA THAT WE DO HAVE.

SHOWS THAT PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE STATE.

OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS, CIRCUMSTANCES OF LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME WORKERS HAVE BEEN GETTING WORSE.

LOW WAGE EARNERS HAVE SEEN THEIR INCOMES INCREASE THEIR HOURLY WAGE INCREASE BY JUST A DOLLAR.

OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS.

VERSUS HIGH EARNERS SEEING THEIR WAGES INCREASE BY $12.

AT THE SAME TIME, HOUSING COSTS HAVE SKY ROCKETED.

$8,000.

PEOPLE ARE PAYING $8,000 MORE ANNUALLY.

FOR HOUSING.

THAN THEY WERE WAY BACK THEN.

SO PEOPLE ARE FALLING FURTHER AND FURTHER BEHIND.

IT'S OBVIOUS, THIS ISN'T US VERSUS THEM ISSUE.

THIS IS LIKE ECOSYSTEM WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

AND JUST BALANCED, THIS OBVIOUS WE'RE A LONG WAYS AWAY FROM A BALANCE THAT WORKS FOR HALF OF OUR RESIDENTS.

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING LAST 40 YEARS TO GET TO A GOOD PLACE.

>>Olena: WENDY COUPLE OF STATEMENTS TARGETED TOWARDS BUSINESS.

>> MANY BUSINESSES CANNOT FIND WORKS BECAUSE PAY IS TOO LOW.

IF BUSINESSES WILL NOT RAISE THEIR WAGES, THEY ARE IN DANGER OF GOING OUT OF BUSINESS.

CALLER FROM KAUAI SAID THAT.

NICK SAID, IN THE LONGTERM, WHY SHOULD WE AS A COMMUNITY SUPPORT BUSINESSES THAT CANNOT AFFORD TO PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE?

>> GOOD QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

ONE OF THE TOPICS THAT I THINK WE DO WANT TO EXPLORE IS WHAT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIVING WAGE, TERM A LIVING WAGE VERSUS A MINIMUM WAGE.

SOME FOLKS THINK THAT MINIMUM WAGE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AS THIS STARTER WAGE.

AND WE DID TOUCH ON IT A THINK A LITTLE BIT.

OFTENTIMES, IT IS A GREAT WAY TO PULL IN THE MOST UNSKILLED WORKERS AND OFTENTIMES, THOSE ARE TEENS.

GIVES THEM A FOOT IN THE DOOR.

GIVES THEM THE RUNG OF THE CAREER LADDER.

IT GIVES THEM FIRST PLACE TO ENTER.

AND IF YOU'VE EVER WORKED WITH TEENAGERS AND THINGS, THERE'S A LOT FOR PEOPLE TO EARN WHEN THEY FIRST ENTER WORKFORCE.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU PUSH UP THE MINIMUM WAGE TO THE POINT WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO PULL IN MORE OF THAT HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD A LOT MORE OF THE ISSUE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, MINIMUM WAGE, LIVABLE WAGE, HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD, MAY TAKE AWAY THAT OPPORTUNITY FOR YOUNG ADULTS AND TEENS.

I THINK LIVABLE WAGE VERSUS MINIMUM WAGE.

THOSE TERMS NEED TO BE DEFINED.

SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT.

>>Olena: BRIAN FROM FACEBOOK SAYS, WHY NOT REMOVE THE GENERAL EXCISE TAX ON FOOD, MEDICINE AND CLOTHING?

REPRESENTATIVE, IS THIS EVEN AN OPTION?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

RIGHT?

BECAUSE THE GENERAL EXCISE TAX BRINGS IN A LOT OF MONEY TO THE STATE.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT HAWAII'S STATE BUDGET AND THE EXPENSES THAT THE STATE COVERS ARE DIFFERENT FROM ALMOST ALL OF THE STATES ON THE MAINLAND.

WE COVER EDUCATION WHERE IT'S A STATEWIDE PROGRAM.

PAID FOR BY STATE TAX DOLLARS.

MANY STATES HAVE EITHER EDUCATION DISTRICTS OR COUNTIES THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

SO THERE'S A DIFFERENT TAXING MECHANISM ON HOW THEY PAY FOR EDUCATION IN OTHER STATES.

WE RUN A STATE JAIL AND PRISON SYSTEM.

MANY STATES ON THE MAINLAND HAVE COUNTIES RUN JAILS AND THE STATE ONLY RUNS THE HIGHER CRIME INMATES, OR HOUSE THE HIGHER CRIME INMATES.

SO THERE'S A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THAT IS DONE.

THE STATE OF HAWAII ALSO PAYS FOR THE PUBLIC HOSPITAL SYSTEM.

WHICH IS BASICALLY, ON THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS.

AND HOSPITAL SYSTEMS ON THE MAINLAND GENERALLY PAID BY LOCAL COUNTIES OR LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES.

>> WE ALSO PAY FOR EMS SYSTEM.

EMERGENCY MEDICAL SYSTEMS STATEWIDE.

WHICH IS VERY LOCALIZED IN MOST PLACES ACROSS THE U.S.

SO YOU KNOW, THE STATE FUNDING AND HOW WE FUND STATE GOVERNMENT IS BOTH INCOME TAX, EXCISE TAX AND TRANSIENT ACCOMMODATIONS TAX AND OTHER SMALL TAXES YOU HAVE A COMMENT AND I HAVE A QUESTION COULD POSSIBLY APPLY TO YOU.

WOULD RAISING WAGES AFFECT THE COST OF GOODS, RENT, ET CETERA FROM BRIAN ON FACEBOOK?

>> SO YES.

AND THE BACK TO THE EXCISE FOR JUST ONE SECOND.

SO THE HOUSE PACKAGE PROPOSAL THAT RAISES THE FOOD TAX CREDIT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

AND IF YOU, I MEAN, I DID BACK OF THE SPREAD SHEET MATH.

IT LOOKS LIKE AT THAT ‑‑ SUSPECT THIS IS HOW THEY CAME UP WITH THE NUMBER.

AT 150 PER INDIVIDUAL, THERE'S A DIFFERENT WORD FOR IT IN TAX LINGO.

PER QUALIFIED EXEMPTION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THAT COMES PRETTY CLOSE TO COVERING ALL THE EXCISE TAXES WOULD BE PAID BY A TYPICAL SORT OF HOUSEHOLD BUDGET FOR FOOD.

BY A LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLD BUDGET FOR FOOD.

SO THAT IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

GENERALLY, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE A LOT OF EXEMPTIONS.

ONE OF THE REAL ADVANTAGES OF THE EXCISE TAX IS IT DOESN'T DISTORT DECISIONS AS MUCH AS OTHER FORMS OF TAXES BECAUSE IT APPLIES TO EVERYTHING.

AND THAT ALLOWS YOU TO KEEP THE RATE LOW.

WHICH ALSO HELPS TO PREVENT DISTORTING DECISIONS.

SO BUT THINK THE FOOD TAX CREDIT IS DEFINITELY A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

SO YES, RAISING MINIMUM WAGE, SOME OF THAT WILL DEFINITELY WORK ITS WAY THROUGH IN TWO PRICES.

NOT NEARLY AS MUCH AS YOU MIGHT THINK.

THAT'S ACTUALLY ONE REASONS WHY THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE THAT RELATIVELY SMALL, BUT RAISING MINIMUM WAGE DOESN'T ALWAYS END UP IN JOB LOSSES.

IF I MAY, THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT WENDY HAD MENTIONED ABOUT TEENAGERS TRANSITIONING INTO WORK, ONE OF THE CONCERNS ABOUT HAVING TOO HIGH OF A MINIMUM WAGE OR SOMETHING THAT, HAVE A HARD TIME MEASURING, IT MAY BE PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM GETTING BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE.

BEEN UNEMPLOYED FOR A WHILE, HIGHER RISK, HIRE FOR A BUSINESS.

AND THE HIGHER THE MINIMUM WAGE HIGHER BARRIER TO GETTING THOSE PEOPLE BACK INTO THE LABOR FORCE.

>>Olena: THANK YOU.

WE HAVE A BUNCH OF COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS RELATING TO HOUSING.

IF SOMEBODY EARNS 20 ADDS HOUR MINIMUM WAGE, COULD THEY AFFORD TO BUY A HOME ON OAHU?

COULD A COUPLE BOTH EARNING 20 AND HOUR AFFORD TO BUY A HOME ON OAHU?

TALK A LOT ABOUT CONTROLLING MINIMUM WAGE.

WHAT ABOUT CONTROLLING COST OF LIVING AND RENTAL COSTS?

AND BARBARA FROM KAILUA SAID, BIGGEST EXPENSE FOR PEOPLE IS HOUSING.

WHY NOT INSTEAD GET MORE SERIOUS ABOUT INCREASING AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR PEOPLE WHO MAKE MINIMUM WAGE.

GAVIN?

>> I SAW CARL SHAKE HIS HEAD TO THE TWO EARNERS TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR BEING ABLE TO AFFORD A HOUSE ON OAHU.

I WANT TO TAKE HIS WORD FOR IT.

THAT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

BUT YEAH.

NO.

ABSOLUTELY.

WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON BOTH ENDS.

>> AND SO WE NEED TO ADOPT POLICIES THAT PROMOTE MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR LOCAL RESIDENTS.

I THINK BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH OUR HOUSING COSTS IS A LOT OF OUR HOUSING STOCK IS BEING BOUGHT UP FROM PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE STATE FOR SECOND HOMES OR WHATEVER.

AND IT'S DRIVING PRICES UP FOR LOCALS THIS.

IS A BIG PROBLEM IN SKI TOWNS, WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN, BUYING UP ALL THE HOUSING THERE, AND THEY RUN OUT OF WORKERS.

WORKERS HAVE TO LEAVE TOWN.

AND THEN COMMUTE RIDICULOUSLY FAR TO GET IN THERE TO WORK.

HAWAII, DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT LUXURY.

IF WE DON'T FIGURE IT OUT THE INCOME AND EXPENSE END ESPECIALLY WITH HOUSING WE'RE IN BIG TROUBLE.

LOVE FOR YOU TO INVITE ME ON THE HOUSING SHOW TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE HOUSING POLICIES.

>>Olena: SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER SHOW.

REPRESENTATIVE?

>> I WANT TO THE COMMENT.

$19 AN HOUR.

GIVE KNOWN OTHER CHANGES IN ANY OTHER EXPENSES THAT WOULD MAKE UP THE COST OF LIVING.

AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, WE ARE LOOKING AT HOW TO ADDRESS THAT.

CHILD CARE, DEPENDENT CARE, HOUSING, RENTAL HOUSING, OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU KNOW, TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO BUY A HOUSE ANYWHERE IN THE STATE OF HAWAII.

EVEN ON HAWAII ISLAND.

SO YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I THINK IT WAS TWO SESSIONS AGO, HOUSE PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS TO GIVE THE STATE THE ABILITY TO RAISE THE PROPERTY TAX.

MANY OF US BELIEVE THAT THE HAWAII PROPERTY TAX, PART OF THE PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE COMING IN AND BUYING PROPERTIES IN HAWAII WHETHER THEY'RE HOMES OR VACANT PROPERTY IS THE FACT THAT OUR PROPERTY TAX IS CONSIDERED SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN MANY I GUESS, PLACES ON THE MAINLAND THAT YOU WOULD CONSIDER DESIRABLE PLACES TO LIVE.

SO THAT WAS ONE EFFORT THE STATE FELT LIKE WE CAN HELP IN DRIVING DOWN THE COST OF HOUSING BY INCREASING PROPERTY TAX FOR PEOPLE THAT LIVE OUTSIDE OF THE STATE OF HAWAII OR ARE SPECULATORS THAT ARE BUYING UP A WHOLE BUNCH OF RENTAL PROPERTY OR SHORT‑TERM VACATION RENTALS PROPERTIES AND TAXING THEM TO MAKE IT A DISINCENTIVE TO PARK THEIR MONEY IN HAWAII IN REAL PROPERTY.

OBVIOUSLY, FOR LOCAL RESIDENTS, IT WOULD BE A PROCESS IN WHICH THEIR PROPERTY TAXES WOULD BE ADJUSTED TO THEIR POSSIBLY THEIR INCOME LEVEL.

BUT YOU KNOW, THAT IS ONE WAY IN WHICH WE COULD, WE WERE LOOKING AT ADDRESSING THE HOUSING CRISIS.

AND THERE'S MANY, MANY OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS.

TO THAT WHOLE PROBLEM THAT IS NOT, YOU KNOW CENTERED AROUND RAISING MINIMUM WAGE.

>>Olena: WE HAVE EMAIL FROM LENAALA SAYING IF THE MINIMUM WAGE IS INCREASED, THAT MINIMUM WAGE EARNER'S SUPERVISOR WILL ALSO RECEIVE A PAY INCREASE?

IN ORDER TO PAY THOSE HIGHER SALARIES, THE BUSINESS OWNER WILL RAISE THEIR PRICES IN ORDER TO COVER THEIR EXPENSE WOULDN'T THAT STILL MAKE THE COST OF LIVING DIFFICULT FOR THOSE LOWER WAGE OWNERS AND EVERYONE ELSE?

ANY COMMENT?

>> IT IS TRUE, ONLY PEOPLE AFFECTED BY WAGE INCREASE ARE WAGE EARNERS.

THE RESEARCH THAT I LOOKED AT SHOWS THAT YOU TEND TO SEE INCREASES IN WAGES UP TO 3 TO FOUR DOLLARS, PEOPLE MAKING 3 TO FOUR DOLLARS MORE THAN THE WAGE, AS IT GOES UP, YOU GET INCREASING ACROSS BOARD.

THE TRUE.

THAT IT DOES DRIVE UP COST OF DELIVERING SERVICES BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND.

IN MOST BUSINESSES, NOT SO MUCH IN REALLY SMALL, SAY, FOOD SERVICE BUSINESSES, BUT IN BROADLY SPEAKING, MOST OF THE FOOD SERVICE AND RETAIL AND OTHERS, THE NUMBER OF FRACTION OF THEIR WORKFORCE MAKING MINIMUM WAGE IS NOT THAT LARGE.

SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE TYPICAL BUSINESS HAVING THREE QUARTERS OF THEIR WORKERS ALL MAKING MINIMUM WAGE.

SO THE EFFECTED ON THEIR COST IS NOT THAT LARGE.

PASS THROUGH TO HIGHER PRICES IS NOT THAT LARGE.

SO THE NET EFFECT IS POSITIVE ON THE MINIMUM WAGE WORKERS.

>>Olena: GAVIN?

>> I MEAN, WE WOULD SAY IT'S A GOOD THING THAT THE HIGH EARNERS WOULD MAKE A LITTLE MORE BECAUSE THEY'RE STILL NOT HIGH EARNERS.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE SAME FOLKS THAT ARE STRUGGLING.

BOTTOM HALF THE POPULATION THAT IS STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

SO THAT'S NOT BAD THING.

JUST TO GIVE SOME EXAMPLES WHAT THE PRICING INCREASES MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

SOME OF THE RESEARCH WE'VE DONE SUGGESTS THAT LOOKING AT FIFTY CENTS MORE, FOR LIKE FAST GOOD MEAL.

THIRTY CENTS MORE FOR GALLON OF MILK.

IT IS MORE.

>> DOES HIT PEOPLE AS POCKET BOOKS BUT CREATES THAT BALANCE, MORE OF THAT BALANCE WE NEED.

SO THAT WE HAVE A COMMUNITY THAT IS THRIVING AND COMMUNITY WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING WITHOUT FOOD, SHELTER, BASIC NECESSITIES, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE WORKING 40 HOURS A WEEK.

>>Olena: WENDY, YOUR INSIGHTS?

>> THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS TAKE ON A LOT OF RISK.

USUALLY PEOPLE NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS, THEY'RE IN THE WORKFORCE TOO.

SO SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS THEY HAVE TENACITY.

THEY HAVE TO HAVE GRIT.

THEY GET IN THERE AND MAKE THINGS HAPPEN AND THEY'RE WORKING HARD.

THEY CARE ABOUT THEIR EMPLOYEES.

>> AND OFTENTIMES THEY'RE WORKING SHOULDER TO SHOULDER WITH THEIR EMPLOYEES.

SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IF THEY ARE PAYING AT THIS POINT, 15 TO $18 AN HOUR, AND THAT IS HOW THEY'RE ACTUALLY HANDLING THE LABOR SHORTAGE, SUPPLY AND DEMAND OF LABOR, IN THIS PARTICULAR LABOR MARKET, SO YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE NOW AT 15 TO $18 AN HOUR AND WAGE COMPRESSION.

SO THEN WE BRING THAT UP TO 15.

AND NOW, WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON THAT'S BEEN THERE 3 TO 5 YEARS, HAS THE SKILLS, IS NOT ENTRY LEVEL AT ALL ANY MORE, MAYBE EVEN A SUPERVISOR AT THE 18 TO TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR, IN THE TYPES OF BUSINESSES THAT ARE PAYING THAT GOES UP AND REALLY, EXPONENTIAL.

JUST GROWS SO FAST.

AND THEN IT'S JUST TO A POINT WHERE HOW DOES THE BUSINESS ACTUALLY COVER THAT EXPENSE SO THEY CAN RAISE THE PRICES, BUT THEN HOW DOES THE PRICE AFFECT YOUR CONSUMER OR YOUR CUSTOMER.

THAT CAN ALTER THEIR BEHAVIOR.

SO IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

AND SO IT'S NOT JUST AS IF THERE IS MONEY TO JUST GIVE.

YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY RECEIVING THAT.

IF YOUR CUSTOMERS ARE STILL GOING TO BELIEVE NEW AND WHAT THE VALUE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

AT SOME POINT, THERE'S A TIPPING POINT.

WE ALL KNOW.

WE ALL ARE ALSO CONSUMERS AND CUSTOMERS AT SOME POINT, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION TO EITHER NOT GO OUT TO EAT AND STAY AT HOME OR NOT, YOU KNOW, DO THAT ACTIVITY THAT YOU WOULD REALLY LOVE TO DO.

I MEAN, THERE'S ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT YEAH, IT'S VERY BIG, TURNS INTO VERY BIG ISSUE VERY QUICKLY.

>>Olena: WE HAVE A COMMENT FROM A BUSINESS OWNER.

IF EMPLOYEES WORK OVER 20 HOURS A WEEK, THEY MUST BE SUPPLIED MEDICAL INSURANCE FOR OUR EMPLOYEES.

COSTS $600 A MONTHS EACH.

THIS NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED AS WELL.

ANOTHER COMMENT FROM A VIEWER IN WAIKIKI, HOW WILL RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE AFFECT THE ELIGIBILITY OF WORKERS FOR OTHER BENEFITS SUCH AS HEALTH CARE AND FOOD STAMPS?

>> DR. BONHAM I SEE YOU'RE NODDING.

>> THINGS WE TALK ABOUT ALL THE TIME.

I DON'T KNOW THAT, I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE LEGISLATION HAS BEEN INTRODUCED SAYS IF ANYTHING, ABOUT THE MEDICAL COSTS AND BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY IS AWARE OF.

WE RECOGNIZE IT.

BUSINESSES ARE PAYING THIS.

AND I THINK IT'S PROBABLY PART OF, ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THE HOUSE IS LOOKING AT WAYS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TAXES DON'T GO UP TOO MUCH.

BECAUSE THEY RECOGNIZE BUSINESSES ARE FACING THESE COSTS.

>>Olena: FROM WHAT YOU HEARD TONIGHT, SENATE PACKAGE VERSUS HOUSE PROPOSAL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD BE MORE IN FAVOR OF?

>> I CAN TELL YOU THAT I AM MORE IN FAVOR OF HOUSE PACKAGE THAT GOES A LITTLE BIT MORE GRADUALLY.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THAT WE SIMPLY DON'T KNOW WHERE THE TIPPING POINT IS, WHERE WE START TO DO MORE DAMAGE THAN GOOD.

AND WE CAN SORT OF GO BACK AND FORTH ALL NIGHT.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY POSITIVE ASPECTS TO RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE THAT WILL MAKE PEOPLE BETTER OFF.

AND WILL NOT DRIVE BUSINESSES OUT OF BUSINESS.

BUT THERE IS A POINT WHERE THOSE POSITIVE STARTS TO BECOME NEGATIVE AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

SO GRADUAL, I PREFER THAT.

>>Olena: WENDY?

>> WELL, CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WE STRIVE TO ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES.

THROUGH A STRONG SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY.

SO OUR COMMUNITY AND THE COMMUNITY'S QUALITY OF LIFE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO US.

AND SO WE DO BELIEVE THAT RAISING MINIMUM WAGE GRADUALLY IN A REASONABLE APPROACH IS DOABLE.

THERE'S WAYS THAT IT CAN BE DONE AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, WILL WORK TO BENEFIT A LOT OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO THAT IS A GOOD THING.

THE SBA2018, AGAIN, TOO MUCH.

AND THERE WASN'T A LOT IN THAT BILL OTHER THAN THE INCREASE.

THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE IN THAT EXCEPT FOR THE INCREASE.

AND THE BILL THAT WILL BE COMING OUT FOR THE HOUSE HAS MANY DIFFERENT ASPECTS TO IT.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S A MORE COMPREHENSIVE BILL.

AND IT DOES HAVE A MUCH MORE GRADUAL APPROACH.

FOR EXAMPLE, SB2018 GETS TO $18 AN HOUR BY 2026.

AND IN THE HOUSE VERSION, IT WILL BE 2030.

SO IT'S A 4 VERSUS 8 YEAR TIMELINE.

SO WE'LL SEE.

IT HAS TO COME OUT FIRST.

RIGHT?

>>Olena: GAVIN AND THEN DR. BONHAM.

>> I MEAN, WE SUPPORT THE SENATE BILL.

I AGREE WITH THE POINTS THAT CARL HAS BEEN MAKING.

GRADUAL WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A MORE GRADUAL INCREASE.

I KIND OF WISH WE COULD BACK IN TIME 2018 HAVING THAT MINIMUM WAGE GRADUALLY INCREASE.

REGRET THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THE HOUSE BILL, SO I DON'T WANT TO COMMENT ON IT.

STAKE OUT A POSITION I GUESS.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT TAKING TOO LONG.

IF WE WAIT UNTIL 2030.

TO GET TO 18.

BY THE TIME WE'RE THERE.

I MEAN, WITH INFLATION, PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO BE PRETTY FAR BEHIND A LIVING WAGE.

WHAT I DO LIKE, I LOVE THE EITC.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY GREAT.

I'M SUPERGLAD TO HEAR IT.

I LOVED FOOD EXCISE TAX CREDIT.

I THINK THAT IS RIGHT ON AND GREAT DIRECTION TO BE GOING.

I AM REALLY HOPING THAT I'LL GET TO TALK TO REPRESENTATIVE ONISHI ABOUT WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE PROPERTY TAXES AND THE ADDRESSING THE HOUSING ISSUES.

THAT'S REALLY PROMISING AS WELL.

>>Olena: DR. BONHAM?

>> ONE.

THINGS WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IS INDEXING THE WAGE, MINIMUM WAGE.

AND YOU KNOW, IF WE HAD INDEXED MINIMUM WAGE BACK IN TAKE YOUR PICK, 2007, 2018, THEN WE MIGHT STILL BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

BECAUSE THERE MIGHT STILL BE A REASON, MIGHT STILL FEEL LIKE THERE NEEDED TO BE A BOOST AND YOU COULD DO THAT.

BUT INDEXING IT SO THAT IT GROWS EVERY YEAR, WITH ACTUALLY MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE TO INDEX IT TO THE MEDIAN WAGE, MOST OF BILLS THAT I LOOKED AT ARE INDEXING IT TO INFLATION.

THE INDEXING TO THE MEDIAN WAGE GETS YOU OUT OF THE WAGE INEQUALITY PROBLEM WHERE THE MEDIAN WAGE GOES UP BY MORE THAN THE MINIMUM WAGE AND THE WORKING FAMILIES THAT ARE EARNING THAT MINIMUM KEEP FALLING FARTHER AND FARTHER BEHIND.

INDEXING PERIOD IS IMPORTANT.

MOST OF BILLS ARE LOOKING AT DOING THAT.

SO IT WOULD GO UP EVERY YEAR BY THE RATE OF INCREASE OF INFLATION.

>>Olena: OKAY.

WE DO HAVE SOME COMMENTS FROM VIEWERS AND TIME IS STARTING TO RUN OUT ALSO.

I OWN A BUSINESS ON MAUI.

STARTING WAGE FOR UNSKILLED BUSINESSES IS NOW TWENTY DOLLARS AN HOUR.

FROM 15 IN 2015.

I HAVE NOT RAISED PRICE.

HIGHER PAID EMPLOYEES DO A BETTER JOB AND SAVE EMPLOYERS MONEY.

MICHAEL FROM FACEBOOK.

I'M SURE MAUI RESIDENTS ARE LOOKING, WHO IS MICHAEL?

WE HAVE ANOTHER COMMENT.

>> THAT IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE ‑‑ ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RESEARCH ON THE MINIMUM WAGE.

AND IT'S NOT A SETTLED MATTER BY ANY STRETCH OF ONE OF THE THINGS THAT RECEIVES A LOT OF ATTENTION IS SO IF WE DON'T SEE NEGATIVE EMPLOYMENT EFFECTS, WHEN THE MINIMUM WAGE GOES UP, THE QUESTION IS WHY.

AND ONE OF THE ANSWERS IS THAT BUSINESSES END UP WITH EMPLOYEES DOING MORE.

BEING MORE PRODUCTIVE OFFSETS THAT COST.

PASS THROUGH OF COST IN PRICE INCREASES.

>>Olena: WORRIED ABOUT BUSINESSES STARTING TO SWITCH TO AUTOMATED OR ROBOTIC SERVICES RATHER THAN ABSORBING INCREASED PAYROLL EXPENSES.

WE ARE ABOUT TO WRAP THIS SHOW.

DO YOU GUYS FEEL THAT WE ARE READY TO RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE JUST REAL QUICK?

>> YEAH.

SURE.

>>Olena: YES?

>> YES.

ABSOLUTELY.

>>Olena: WENDY?

>> GO AHEAD.

YES.

IF IT'S REASONABLE.

>> I THINK GIVEN WHERE WAGES WHERE I THINK WAGES ARE, I DON'T HAVE THE DATA FOR 2021 YET, BUT LOOKING WHERE WAGES WERE IN 2020, AND WHERE YOU THINK THEY WERE NOW, I THINK WE'RE VERY READY TO SEE MINIMUM WAGE GO UP.

>>Olena: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE WILL BE MONITORING WHAT HAPPENS OVER AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

AND ANTICIPATEDDING WHAT THE HOUSE HAS TO SAY ITS PACKAGES GOING TO PRESENTS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT – AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS ‑ WE LOVE WHEN YOU ARE A PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

STATE REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD ONISHI, GAVIN THORNTON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HAWAII APPLESEED CENTER, WENDY LAROS, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE KONA‑KOHALA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF U‑HERO, CARL BONHAM.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, THERE’S BEEN A PUSH TO RENAME MCKINLEY HIGH SCHOOL BECAUSE OF THE ROLE THE PRESIDENT PLAYED IN THE ANNEXATION OF HAWAII.

THE DEBATE HAS DRAWN PASSIONATE TESTIMONY ON BOTH SIDES AND IS EXPECTED TO BE TAKEN UP AGAIN DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M OLENA HEU FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI`I, ALOHA!