>>ANNOUNCER: REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO, AN ORGANIZATION OF PROFESSIONALS WHO BELIEVE THAT INVESTING IN PUBLIC EDUCATION IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR STATE'S ECONOMIC FUTURE, FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE.

TODAY OUR SHOW IS GOING TO BE DEALING WITH ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT WE'RE FACING AS A STATE AND AS A NATION, THE ISSUE OF THE CHILDREN ON OUR SOUTHERN BORDER.

I'M LUCKY ENOUGH TODAY TO HAVE TWO OF THE JOURNALISTS WHO ARE WORLD RENOWNED FOR THEIR COVERAGE OF BORDER ISSUES AND I'D LIKE TO START WITH ANGELA KOCHERGA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ANGLEA: THANK YOU LORENE, ALWAYS GREAT TO BE WITH YOU.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE AN EMMY AWARD-WINNING MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST, YOU WERE THE BORDER BUREAU CHIEF WITH BELLO CORPORATION, YOU WERE AT KHOW HOUSTON, KVIA EL PASO, THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS , YOU REALLY COVER THE WATERFRONT, BUT NOW I'M HAPPY THAT YOU HAVE LANDED AS NEWS DIRECTOR FOR KTEP AND NPR PUBLIC RADIO STATION IN EL PASO AT UTEP, RIGHT?

>>ANGELA: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND YOU JUST THIS YEAR RECEIVED TWO, EDWARD R. MURROW AWARDS, I MEAN THIS IS JUST THE TOP, THIS IS FIRST WATER AWARDS.

ONE FOR THE BEST RADIO DOCUMENTARY IN A WHOLE YEAR AND ANOTHER ONE FOR THE BEST HARD NEWS REPORT, I AM HONORED TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU.

>>ANGELA: THANK YOU, LORENE, PLEASURE.

>>LORENE: SO THERE'S NO ONE ELSE WHO CAN TELL ME WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON AT THE BORDER BUT YOU AND ON THE SECOND PART OF THE SHOW WE WILL HAVE THE ESTEEMED JOURNALIST, ALFREDO CORCHADO, SO WE GOT THE TWO BEST TELLING US, SO I'M JUST GOING TO STEP BACK AND PLEASE, WE THOUGHT EVERYTHING WOULD CHANGE ONCE TRUMP AND HIS POLICIES WERE GONE, BUT WE ARE STILL, THERE'S STILL A HUGE PROBLEM WITH UNACCOMPANIED MINORS AND CHILDREN AT THE BORDER, TELL US WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>>ANGELA: WELL, WE ACTUALLY SAW A SPIKE IN THE NUMBER OF CHILDREN ARRIVING AT THE BORDER AND TEENS ON THEIR OWN, SO-CALLED UNACCOMPANIED MINORS, AND YOU SEE THAT WE'VE SEEN IT WITH THE PAST SEVERAL ADMINISTRATIONS, BECAUSE THE REASONS FOR PEOPLE COMING CONTINUE TO BE THE SAME, THE ROOT CAUSES.

PEOPLE COMING FROM CENTRAL AMERICA, WE HAVE EVERYTHING FROM NATURAL DISASTERS TO HURRICANES THAT STRUCK THIS PAST YEAR AND FLOODED HUGE SECTIONS OF CENTRAL AMERICA, HONDURAS IN PARTICULAR SUFFERED.

WE HAVE, OF COURSE, GRINDING POVERTY, WE HAVE VIOLENCE AND WE HAVE ALL OF THOSE REASONS PEOPLE WANT TO COME AND SEEK ASYLUM.

AND OTHERS ARE COMING TO REUNITE, ESPECIALLY THE CHILDREN, WITH PARENTS OR RELATIVES WHO ARE IN THE UNITED STATES WORKING AND HAVE BEEN HERE FOR MANY YEARS.

SO THOSE REASONS REMAIN, BUT THE ISSUES, THE POLICIES CHANGE AND THE POLICIES, YOU KNOW, UNDER THE NEW ADMINISTRATION HAVE NOT DRAMATICALLY CHANGED, THE ONE THING THAT DID HAPPEN IS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO STOP CHILDREN AT THE BORDER.

UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE WERE NOT ONLY KEEPING OUT CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANT ADULTS, BUT CHILDREN AS WELL AND HE SAID, NO, WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW THE CHILDREN TO COME ACROSS AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE SAW, THAT SPIKE, THAT INFLUX OF UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ALSO SAW BACK IN THE LAST ADMINISTRATION CHILDREN SLEEPING ON CONCRETE FLOORS IN JAILS AND I BELIEVE, TELL ME WHAT ACCOMMODATIONS ARE BEING MADE FOR THESE KIDS NOW, WHILE YOU TRY TO CONNECT THEM, A LOT OF THEM HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS IN THE STATES AND WE'RE TRYING TO CONNECT THEM WITH EXTENDED FAMILY MEMBERS.

>>ANGELA: FAMILY MEMBERS OR SPONSORS WHO WILL TAKE THE CHILDREN AND YES, SO WHAT WE SAW UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WERE HORRIBLY OVERCROWDED, BORDER PATROL HOLDING CELLS THAT WERE DESIGNED FOR JUST A COUPLE OF NIGHTS FOR ADULTS, PRIMARILY MEN, BUT OF COURSE, ADULT WOMEN COULD COME AS WELL.

THOSE WERE CROWDED, FILLED TO CAPACITY, UNSANITARY AND NO PLACE FOR CHILDREN TO BE HELD.

NOW THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS WORKED TO QUICKLY MOVE THE CHILDREN OUT OF BORDER PATROL CUSTODY, BUT INTO TEMPORARY HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES FACILITIES AND THOSE AREN'T IDEAL EITHER I JUST TALKED TO THE CONGRESSWOMAN FROM EL PASO IN AN INTERVIEW ABOUT A MASSIVE FACILITY AT FORT BLISS HERE IN EL PASO, THAT HAS NEARLY 5,000 TEENAGERS AND YOU CAN IMAGINE THOSE ARE NOT IDEAL CONDITIONS, THESE TENT FACILITIES WHERE CHILDREN ARE BEING HELD TEMPORARILY, BUT STILL BEING HELD UNTIL THEY CAN BE REUNITED WITH THEIR FAMILIES WHILE THEY WAIT FOR THEIR IMMIGRATION CASES TO BE DECIDED.

>>LORENE: AND HOW LONG A WAIT IS THAT USUALLY?

>>ANGELA: WELL, THE GOAL IS TO GET THE CHILDREN OUT OF THESE SHELTERS IN UNDER A MONTH, BUT SOME ARE STAYING MUCH LONGER, SOME ARE STAYING AS LONG AS, YOU KNOW, 40 PLUS DAYS, OF COURSE, IT WAS MUCH LONGER UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THESE IMMIGRATION HEARINGS THOUGH, THOSE CAN TAKE YEARS, YEARS, THERE'S A HUGE BACKLOG OF ALL TYPES OF CASES, ASYLUM AND OTHERWISE, SO THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM AND A LOT OF THESE CASES WERE PUT ON HOLD DURING THE PANDEMIC, SO THE BACKLOG IS EVEN LARGER.

>>LORENE: SO PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD DELEGATED HANDLING THESE BORDER ISSUES TO THE VICE PRESIDENT, HOW'S THAT GOING?

>>ANGELA: WELL, SHE IS GOING TO BE MAKING A TRIP TO MEXICO AND TO GUATEMALA TO MEET WITH THE LEADERSHIP THERE TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WITH PEOPLE COMING THROUGH THOSE COUNTRIES ON THE WAY TO THE US, TO DEAL WITH THE ROOT CAUSES OF MIGRATION, THERE DIDN'T USED TO BE A LOT OF MIGRANTS COMING FROM GUATEMALA NOW THAT'S THE PRIMARY SENDING STATE.

AND WE'VE GOT HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE, NOT JUST CHILDREN AND TEENS, BUT ALSO FAMILIES AND THEN IN MEXICO, MEXICO ALSO HAS PEOPLE LEAVING BUT ALSO MEXICO'S BECOME THIS TRANSIT COUNTRY AND A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT STUCK IN MEXICAN BORDER CITIES, DANGEROUS, MEXICAN BORDER CITIES, WAITING FOR THE CHANCE TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES UNDER THAT "REMAIN IN MEXICO" PROGRAM.

SO WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE, WILL MEXICO CONTINUE TO ALLOW THAT OR WILL THEY SAY NO, IF THESE PEOPLE AREN'T FROM MEXICO, EITHER GO BACK TO THEIR OWN COUNTRIES OR YOU NEED TO LET THEM INTO THE UNITED STATES.

>>LORENE: AND WEREN'T SOME OF THE FAMILIES THAT WERE SENT BACK TO WAIT IN MEXICO FLOWN TO OTHER PARTS OF MEXICO, NOT AT ALL THE ROUTE THEY HAD TAKEN TO GET TO THE BORDER AND LANDING IN A STRANGE CITY WITH NO RESOURCES.

>>ANGELA: I'VE INTERVIEWED MANY OF THOSE FAMILIES WHO CROSSED IN ONE PART OF TEXAS, THE SOUTH TEXAS, TIP OF TEXAS, BEING FLOWN TO FAR WEST TEXAS, EL PASO, SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO, WHERE WE ARE AND SENT ACROSS THE BORDER INTO MEXICO.

SOME OF THE MOTHERS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN SAID, I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE I AM, I DON'T KNOW ANYONE HERE, I HAVE NO WAY TO REACH FAMILY BACK HOME AND WE'RE DESPERATELY TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO I GET IN CONTACT WITH SOMEONE, I DON'T EVEN HAVE A PHONE.

MEXICO DID GET SOME FUNDING TO PROVIDE SOME TEMPORARY SHELTER, BUT THOSE SHELTERS ARE FILLED TO CAPACITY AND THIS IS AT THE HEIGHT OF COVID AND CONTINUE.

MEXICO IS NOT UP TO SPEED LIKE THE UNITED STATES AS FAR AS HAVING A GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE VACCINATED, SO THAT'S ANOTHER BIG CONCERN.

>>LORENE: PEOPLE, NEW MEXICANS, YOU KNOW, WE ARE A BORDER STATE AND WE PAY SO MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON THERE, PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS SAYING IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DO TO HELP, I KNOW GROUPS THAT HAVE TAKEN TRUCKLOADS OF CLOTHES AND FOOD AND SUPPLIES DOWN TO TRY TO HELP THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE WAITING THEIR TIME AND THERE'S A LOT OF CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE TRYING TO HELP.

IS THERE SOMETHING THAT A WELL-MEANING KIND, NEW MEXICAN OR TEXAN, CAN DO TO MAKE THE SITUATION ANY BETTER FOR THESE CHILDREN AND FAMILIES?

>>ANGELA: WELL, YOU'RE RIGHT, NEW MEXICO REALLY DID STEP UP.

INDIVIDUALS AND CHARITIES DURING THE LAST LARGE MASS MIGRATION, OF COURSE, NOT ALLOWED TO GIVE ANY SUPPLIES TO CHILDREN WHO ARE IN GOVERNMENT FEDERAL FACILITIES JUST FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY AND JUST ACCESS IS VERY LIMITED, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

JOURNALISTS AREN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO GO IN AND ACTUALLY GET A GOOD LOOK, BUT ONCE PEOPLE ARE RELEASED, THE CHILDREN ARE NEVER RELEASED ON THEIR OWN, THEY ARE RELEASED TO VETTED FAMILY MEMBERS BUT OTHER FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, PARENTS WITH YOUNG CHILDREN THEY DO GET RELEASED AND USUALLY LEAVE THE BORDER QUICKLY, BUT WHILE THEY'RE HERE, THEY'RE IN TEMPORARY SHELTER SO THERE ARE DIFFERENT CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS THAT NEED HELP AND ENUNCIATION HOUSE WORKED WITH ALL OF THESE CHURCHES.

THAT'S AN EL PASO BASED NONPROFIT, BUT THEY WORK WITH LOTS OF NEW MEXICO CHURCHES THAT OPEN THEIR DOORS AND PROVIDE A TEMPORARY SHELTER FOR MIGRANTS.

WE'RE NOT AT THAT POINT YET BECAUSE A LOT OF THE ADULT MIGRANTS ARE STILL NOT BEING ALLOWED IN EVEN WITH YOUNG CHILDREN, IF THEY ARE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY THEY'RE QUICKLY SENT TO MEXICO UNDER TITLE 42 WHICH IS A PANDEMIC RULE THAT SAID PEOPLE CAN'T STAY HERE, THEY CAN'T ASK FOR ASYLUM, THEY CANNOT BE HERE UNTIL WE GET THROUGH THE PANDEMIC.

SO WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MIGRANTS WAITING ON THE US SIDE, THEY'RE ALL IN MEXICO AND THERE ARE VARIOUS SHELTERS THAT DO TAKE DONATIONS.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU CAN'T TEST CHILDREN, I MEAN, SO ADULTS COMING ACROSS HAVE TO HAVE A NEGATIVE COVID TEST, IS THAT TRUE?

>>ANGELA: SO IF THEY'RE PART OF THE MIGRANT PROTECTION PROTOCOL, THE MPP THAT REMAIN IN MEXICO THEN THEY'RE BEING ALLOWED IN AN ORDERLY WAY.

OTHER ADULTS ARE NOT, IF SOMEBODY SHOWS UP AND SAYS I WANT TO CLAIM ASYLUM, EVEN IF I HAVE A TINY CHILD I AM BEING SENT BACK TO MEXICO RIGHT NOW.

CHILDREN AND YOUNG TEENS UNDER 17 ARE BEING ALLOWED IN AND THEY'RE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS WE TALKED ABOUT.

>>LORENE: WELL, THANK YOU FOR GETTING US UP TO DATE WITH THAT, IT'S SO DEEPLY CONCERNING.

ANOTHER ISSUE THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN TRYING TO REPAIR SOME OF THE POLICIES FROM THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION WHERE THE FAMILIES THAT WERE SEPARATED WITHOUT ANY RECORDKEEPING, WITHOUT ANY, THESE ARE LITTLE CHILDREN WHO DON'T KNOW THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS OR WHERE THEY'RE FROM AND THAT WERE SEPARATED AND HOW IS THE PROGRESS GOING TO REUNITE THOSE PREVIOUSLY SEPARATED FAMILIES, I KNOW THAT A LOT OF NGOS, NON-GOVERNMENT AGENCIES HAVE BEEN WORKING TO TRY TO TRACK DOWN EITHER THE PARENTS OR THE CHILDREN TO TRY TO GET THEM BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.

>>ANGELA: IT'S BEEN QUITE THE TASK, LORENE UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, I MEAN MORE WAS DONE TO KEEP TRACK OF SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, IF THEY CAME WITH A BAG OF SOMETHING, THEIR BELONGINGS, THAN THEIR CHILDREN.

YOU KNOW I COVERED THAT FOR THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL .

IT WAS TRAGIC TO SEE YOUNG CHILDREN RIPPED FROM THE ARMS OF THEIR PARENTS AND THE PARENTS, YOU KNOW, SEPARATED AND THESE, THEY CAME TOGETHER AND SO IT WAS TOUGH, THESE CHILDREN ARE TRAUMATIZED.

NOW SLOWLY SOME OF THE FAMILIES ARE BEING REUNITED BUT IT IS QUITE THE TASK.

IN SOME CASES THE PARENTS HAVE BEEN SENT BACK TO THEIR HOME COUNTRIES, YOU KNOW, COULD BE A LITTLE VILLAGE IN GUATEMALA, SO TRYING TO FIND THE PARENTS WHEN THERE'S NO RECORD-KEEPING OR VERY LITTLE, I MEAN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HANDED THAT OFF TO NONPROFITS AND GAVE THEM VERY LITTLE INFORMATION BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T KEEP MUCH INFORMATION.

SO, NOW IT'S THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TRYING TO PIECE IT TOGETHER AND HAS MADE THAT A PRIORITY.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT'S A MONUMENTAL TASK BUT YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL PARENTS, WELL WE'RE NOT ALL PARENTS, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS A CHILD AND THE GRIEF THAT COMES WITH THAT SEPARATION IS ALMOST TOO BIG A BURDEN TO BEAR, SO I'M VERY GRATEFUL, ANGELA YOU'RE ABLE TO FILL US UP ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE KIDS.

ANOTHER TIME WE WILL CERTAINLY I WANT TO SPEAK WITH YOU AGAIN SOON BECAUSE WE'VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT SOME OF THE DRUG WAR ISSUES AND ALFREDO'S WORK WITH THAT, BUT THE ISSUE OF THE HUNDREDS OF MURDERED JOURNALISTS, MEXICAN JOURNALISTS, MANY OF WHOM WERE YOUR FRIENDS AND THE DANGER OF BEING A JOURNALIST COVERING THESE ISSUES, ALL THESE ISSUES, AND SO I WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WOULD BE SO KIND HAVING GIVEN US THIS IMPORTANT UPDATE ABOUT THE KIDS, BUT YOU WOULD BE SO KIND AS TO COME BACK SOMETIME IN A MONTH OR SO AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT THESE OTHER BURNING ISSUES.

BUT THE NUMBER OF CALLS I GET ASKING ABOUT THE CHILDREN ON THE BORDER AND I KNEW NO ONE BETTER THAN YOU AND OUR NEXT GUEST, ALFREDO KOCHERGA, I KNOW NO ONE BETTER THAN YOU TWO TO FILL US IN ON THE TRUTH OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXTRAORDINARY REPORTING.

>>ANGELA: THANK YOU LORENE AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE INTEREST ON THE PART OF YOUR VIEWERS IN LEARNING MORE DIRECTLY ABOUT THE BORDER BECAUSE THERE'S SO MUCH CRISIS COVERAGE, SO MANY MYTHS, I MEAN WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU REACHING OUT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

>>LORENE: AND THANK YOU, ANGELA, ANGELA KOCHERGA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND I HOPE WE'LL BE BACK IN TOUCH SOON.

THANK YOU, ANGELA.

>>ANGELA: BYE LORENE.

>>LORENE: AND NOW WE ARE JOINED BY ALFREDO CORCHADO WHO IS INDEED THE DEAN OF BORDER REPORTERS.

HE IS AN AWARD WINNING JOURNALIST, HE IS THE MEXICAN BUREAU CHIEF OF THE DALLAS MORNING NEWS , BUT EVERYONE AGREES HE IS THE TOP AMERICAN JOURNALIST COVERING MEXICO TODAY.

HIS AWARDS WOULD TAKE THE ENTIRE SHOW, THE NIEMAN AWARD, THE WOODROW WILSON, ROCKEFELLER FELLOW, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY REPORTING PRIZE AND MY FAVORITE IS THE COURAGE IN JOURNALISM AWARD GIVEN BY COLBY COLLEGE.

HE HAS ALSO BEEN INDUCTED INTO THE TEXAS INSTITUTE OF LETTERS BECAUSE HE IS AN AUTHOR OF TWO EXTRAORDINARY BOOKS.

THIS ONE, MIDNIGHT IN MEXICO, I HAVE INTERVIEWED HIM AT LENGTH ABOUT THIS - "A REPORTER'S JOURNEY THROUGH A COUNTRY'S DESCENT INTO DARKNESS."

THIS IS ABOUT THE DRUG CARTELS AND IT READS LIKE A MYSTERY, LIKE A THRILLER, BECAUSE THERE WAS ACTUALLY A HIT ON ALFREDO AND HIS COURAGE IN DEALING WITH THE DARK SIDE OF HIS HOMELAND, MAKES AN AMAZING READ.

SPEAKING OF HOMELAND, HIS OTHER BOOK IS CALLED HOMELANDS, FOUR FRIENDS, TWO COUNTRIES, AND THE FATE OF THE GREAT MEXICAN-AMERICAN MIGRATION , AGAIN A FABULOUS READ.

HOMELANDS AND MIDNIGHT IN MEXICO AND WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE ALFREDO CORCHADO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>ALFREDO: THANK YOU, LORENE, THANK YOU FOR THE PRAISE AND THAT INTRODUCTION.

>>LORENE: WELL, MY AUDIENCE IN NEW MEXICO WE ARE A BORDER STATE AND WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AT OUR BORDER AND THE BORDER OF TEXAS AND MEXICO.

EVERYONE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE KIDS ON THE BORDER NOW.

EVERYONE THOUGHT THAT AFTER THE LAST ADMINISTRATION WENT, EVERYTHING WOULD BE FINE BUT NO.

IT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FINE.

BY THE WAY IN 2014 WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT MIDNIGHT IN MEXICO , WE WERE TALKING ABOUT UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN AND CHILDREN AT THE BORDER THEN BUT NOT TO THE DANGEROUS EXTENT THAT DEVELOPED LATER.

SO COULD YOU TELL ME PLEASE, WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE BORDER AND WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE KIDS ON THE BORDER?

>>ALFREDO: WELL IT'S PART OF THE CONTINUING STORY THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS, OVER THE LAST DECADE.

I THINK THERE IS A SENSE THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION WOULD BE DOING MORE AND THEY KEEP TELLING US THAT THEY NEED TIME TO TRY TO COME UP WITH THE RIGHT SYSTEM.

THEY INHERITED AS THEY SAY A BROKEN SYSTEM.

AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT PERHAPS AMERICANS DON'T UNDERSTAND ENOUGH.

I MEAN WE ARE DEALING WITH A PANDEMIC SO YOU KNOW IN THE UNITED STATES YOU HAVE SURPLUS CHECKS THAT ARE COMING IN, HELP FROM THE GOVERNMENT, NOT AMERICA, THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

SO WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE FLEEING THE AFTER EFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC.

WHICH IS STILL GOING ON, IT IS A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE.

AND ALSO CLIMATE CHANGE.

WE ARE SEEING PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVING BECAUSE OF DROUGHT AND THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS BEEN HAVING ON THEIR LIVELIHOODS.

THE CHILDREN, WHICH HAS BEEN VERY DISTURBING IS HOW THE CARTELS SO QUICKLY, THE SMUGGLERS SO QUICKLY CAN ADAPT TO A CERTAIN MESSAGE, YOU KNOW.

NOW IS THE TIME TO COME, PEOPLE HAVE EVERY REASON TO COME HERE.

THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO ASK FOR ASYLUM BUT I THINK IT IS ALSO THE MESSAGING THAT'S HAVING AN IMPACT.

AND ANYTIME YOU HAVE A NEW ADMINISTRATION YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE, WHETHER IT IS MIGRANTS OR MEMBERS OF THESE HUMAN SMUGGLER ORGANIZATIONS, THEY ARE GOING TO TRY TO TEST THE NEW ADMINISTRATION AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW.

I MEAN THE REPORTS THAT WE ARE GETTING ARE WORRISOME IN SOME OF THESE SHELTERS ON THE US SIDE, BUT ALSO YOU KNOW FAMILIES THAT ARE STUCK ON THE MEXICAN SIDE.

IT PLAYS OUT EVERY DAY HERE ALONG THE BORDER.

>>LORENE: WELL, I HAVE READ A LOT OF YOUR REALLY BRILLIANT REPORTING ON THIS AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WAS SURPRISED AT WAS THAT THERE IS A REAL INCONSISTENCY WITH WHO GETS IN AT THE BORDER.

SO THERE VENEZUELANS CAN GET IN BUT CENTRAL AMERICANS, WHO HAD HURRICANES AND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GANG WARFARE AND ALL OF THIS, THERE IS AN EMBARGO ON SOME LEVEL AGAINST THEM.

SO, CAN YOU TALK TO ME ABOUT, AND NOBODY KNOWS WHEN THEY ARE COMING UP WHO IS GOING TO GET IN AND WHO IS NOT.

>>ALFREDO: THAT'S PART OF A REPORT WE DID AT THE MORNING NEWS WHERE WE TRAVELED FROM EL PASO ALL THE WAY TO EAGLE PASS TO TRY TO KIND OF SEE THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND, REPORT ON THE GROUND AS TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES FROM EL PASO, OJINAGA, DEL RIO, AND EAGLE PASS AND IT WAS INTERESTING HOW AT EVERY BORDER CROSSING THE NARRATIVE WAS DIFFERENT.

WHAT THIS TELLS ME AND WHAT THIS COULD TELL OUR READERS IS THAT MEXICO HAS A HUGE SAY SO.

SOMEBODY WOULD SAY HAS SOME VERY IMPORTANT LEVERAGE WITH THE US GOVERNMENT AND WITH THE NEW BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND HOW TO CONTROL THE FLOW.

WHO GETS IN.

IT WAS INTERESTING FOR AN EXAMPLE IN OJINAGA.

FIRST OF ALL IT'S OJINAGA AND IT IS NOT A COMMUNITY THAT IS ACCUSTOMED TO SEEING YOU KNOW THIS KIND OF MIGRATION.

BUT YOU HAVE AGAIN SMUGGLERS WHO ARE TAKING PEOPLE FROM CUIDAD JUAREZ AND OTHER PARTS OF MEXICO AND THEY ARE GOING OFF OJINAGA AND THEY ARE PROMISING PEOPLE IT IS EASIER TO CROSS IN THIS LITTLE COMMUNITY, WHICH YOU KNOW IT IS A VAST DESERT, AND YOU HAVE THE CHINIPAS MOUNTAINS AND IT WAS INTERESTING TALKING TO CENTRAL AMERICANS.

ONE PERSON WHO HAD YOU KNOW WALKED SEVEN DAYS IN THE DESERT.

THEY GAVE YOU A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF WATER AND YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CARRY THAT AND SURVIVE.

ONE PERSON PARTICULARLY FROM EL SALVADOR SAID, BY THE TIME I RAN INTO THE FOURTH BODY, CORPSE, HE DECIDED IT WAS TIME TO GO BACK.

IT WAS TIME TO GIVE UP THE TRIP.

AND THAT PARTICULAR TRIP WAS VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE WERE 19 MIGRANTS THERE AND ALL BUT ONE SAID WE GOT THE MESSAGE AND WE ARE GOING HOME, IT IS NOT WORKING.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAD LEVERAGED EVERYTHING THEY OWNED BACK IN CENTRAL AMERICA, EL SALVADOR, GUATEMALA, HONDURAS AND THEY GOT THE MESSAGE.

THEY WERE GOING TO GO BACK MORE BROKE THAN WHEN THEY LEFT AND TRY TO MAKE AMENDS.

ALL THESE PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO REUNITE WITH FAMILY MEMBERS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND THEN WE DROVE FURTHER SOUTH TO THE RIO CUIDAD ACUNA AREA AND IT WAS PHENOMENAL BECAUSE YOU HAD MOSTLY CENTRAL AMERICAN FAMILIES.

I MEAN SORRY MOSTLY VENEZUELAN FAMILIES WHO WERE COMING ACROSS PLUS SOME PEOPLE FROM NICARAGUA PLUS SOME PEOPLE FROM AFRICA, PEOPLE FROM EASTERN EUROPE, AND PEOPLE FROM HAITI.

WHAT WAS INTERESTING WAS THAT THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, AT LEAST IN THAT PART OF THE COUNTRY, WAS SAYING WE ARE GOING TO ALLOW PEOPLE IN WHO DON'T SPEAK SPANISH.

IN OTHER WORDS IF YOU DIDN'T SPEAK SPANISH, YOU COULD COME IN OR IF YOU HAD A PARTICULAR DYNAMIC AND IN THIS CASE VENEZUELA RELATIONSHIP YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO KIND OF LOOK AT THE DOMESTIC SITUATION BETWEEN MEXICO AND VENEZUELA, THE TWO GOVERNMENTS.

THEY WERE ALLOWING VENEZUELANS TO CROSS INTO THE UNITED STATES.

THESE ARE MUCH MORE MIDDLE CLASS, UPPER CLASS MIGRANTS WHO WERE COMING IN, THEY WERE NOT ASKING FOR ANY KIND OF HELP, ALL THEY WANT IS, ONE PLACE WHERE WE TALKED TO THEM AND THEY SAID WE FEEL MORE LIKE A TOURISM OUTFIT.

LIKE A TOUR SITUATION GOING, WE'RE HELPING PEOPLE FIND FLIGHTS.

PEOPLE ARE ORGANIZING THEIR OWN UBER RIDES TO THE LOCAL AIRPORT IN DEL RIO OR EVEN UP TO SAN ANTONIO.

SO IT WAS A VERY, VERY STARK DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OJINAGA AND THEN WE GO ON TO EAGLE PASS AND PIEDRAS NEGRAS WHERE AGAIN IT WAS MUCH MORE CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRATION.

I THINK ABOUT 400 PEOPLE WERE BEING DEPORTED DAILY BACK INTO MEXICO TO A CITY THAT DOES NOT HAVE SHELTERS AND YOU SAW A LOT OF PEOPLE IN HOTELS, PEOPLE AT THE BUS STATION JUST BASICALLY WAITING FOR THEIR OPPORTUNITY TO CROSS AGAIN OR GO BACK HOME.

SO JUST IN THIS REGION ABOUT 400 MILES, YOU SEE HOW THE DIFFERENCES IN US/MEXICO POLICY.

IN SOME REGIONS SOME PEOPLE GET IN AND IN SOME REGIONS SOME PEOPLE DON'T GET IN AND THAT IS JUST TELLING THE CHALLENGES THAT THESE MIGRANTS ARE FACING.

ALSO TELLING HOW SOPHISTICATED THESE HUMAN SMUGGLERS ARE AND TO KNOW WHERE EXACTLY TO TAKE THE HUMAN CARGO, THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH THAT AND IT PLAYS OUT EVERY DAY.

BUT WHAT IS INTERESTING IS THAT THE CENTER KATONAS THIS IS THE HIGH GROUP RIGHT NOW, NEXT WEEK, NEXT MONTH, IT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT NATIONALITY.

BUT THIS IS WHAT THEY WERE DEALING WITH, I THINK WHEN I WAS THERE, THERE WAS AT LEAST 100 VENEZUELANS A DAY.

>>LORENE: ONE HUNDRED WHAT?

>>ALFREDO: THEY WERE RECEIVING AT LEAST 100 VENEZUELANS PER DAY IN THIS PARTICULAR SPOT.

>>LORENE: AND THEY WERE ALL ADMITTED TO THE COUNTRY?

>>ALFREDO: THEY WERE GIVEN WHAT IS KNOWN AS NDA, A NOTICE TO APPEAR IN COURT LATER.

BUT THE KEY THING IS THAT THEY WERE BEING LET GO TO COME INTO THE INTERIOR COUNTRY AND THEN THEY HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND SEE WHAT THE STATUS OF THEM AND TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

BUT I THINK WITH CENTRAL AMERICANS THIS WAS A STARK DIFFERENCE A NEW SITUATION WHERE THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET TO MAKE IT WHILE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE DOING THAT.

AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY IT'S NOT VERY BALANCED AND IT'S NOT VERY FAIR, IT IS NOT A UNIQUE EVEN HANDED LAW, IF YOU WILL.

>>LORENE: AND I KNOW YOU HAD WRITTEN A PIECE ABOUT HOW THE SMUGGLERS ARE CAPITALIZING ON THIS AND DESCRIBING HOW AN UBER WILL TAKE YOU FROM YOUR HOTEL TO THE BORDER.

I MEAN IT IS JUST THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THE TWO ACCESS POINTS AND WHAT IS SUCCESSFUL AND WHAT ISN'T, AND HOW DO THESE PEOPLE KNOW AS THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR WAY TO THE BORDER, WHAT IS GOING TO WORK?

>>ALFREDO: IT IS INCREDIBLE AGAIN IT IS HOW SOPHISTICATED SMUGGLING ORGANIZATIONS ARE AND HOW THEY USE SOCIAL MEDIA TECHNOLOGY TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS.

ONE PERSON I TALKED TO IN COLUMBUS, NEW MEXICO AND HE WAS SHOWING ME A VIDEO AND HE HAD SEEN BACK IN HIS HOMETOWN THAT HE HAD GOTTEN THROUGH FACEBOOK THAT BASICALLY SHOW A MIGRANT COMING THROUGH THE BORDER AND TELLING PEOPLE THIS IS HOW EASY IT IS TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B IN MEXICO AND POINT C IS TO THE UNITED STATES.

SO AT A TIME WHEN THERE IS SO MUCH MIXED MESSAGING OR WRONG MESSAGING, IT IS INTERESTING HOW THE SMUGGLERS WILL USE SOCIAL MEDIA, TIK TOK, FACEBOOK, TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS, AND THEN IN THE PROCESS PUT THESE VERY VULNERABLE MIGRANTS IN THE VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION, THEY HAVE TO MORTGAGE EVERYTHING THEY OWN TO GET THE MONEY, WHETHER IT IS $5,000, $6,000, $8,000, ONE PERSON WE TALKED TO WAS FROM ECUADOR WHO HAD SPENT $15,000 FROM ECUADOR HE CAME INTO MEXICO ON A TOURIST VISA AND THEN ON THE WAY TO CUIDAD JUAREZ THEY HAD EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, LINED UP.

IT IS A VERY, VERY ORGANIZED EFFORT.

WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT SOME OF THESE MIGRANTS WHO ARE IN PALOMAS, CHIHUAHUA ACROSS FROM COLUMBUS, NEW MEXICO.

SOME OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN RETURNED BACK TO MEXICO AFTER HAVING TRIED TO CROSS THE WALL, COME OVER THE WALL THEY WERE INJURED AND THEY CLAIMED THAT THE BORDER PATROL, THEY TOLD THE BORDER PATROL THAT THEY WERE INJURED AND INSTEAD OF TAKING THEM TO A HOSPITAL THEY WERE TAKEN BACK OR THROWN BACK ONTO THE MEXICAN SIDE.

AND THIS HAS HAPPENED NOT JUST IN PALOMAS BUT WE HEARD THAT THERE WERE OTHER REPORTS ALONG THE BORDER.

>>LORENE: I WANT TO THANK YOU, ALFREDO CORCHADO AND OUR EARLIER GUEST, ANGELA KOCHERGA FOR REALLY SHEDDING A LIGHT ON US.

WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THIS, YOU HAVE GIVEN THIS HUGE GIFT TO US, A LITTLE BIT ALARMING, OF WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON ON THE BORDER.

BUT WE CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH, I WANT YOU TO COME BACK SOON.

ALFREDO AND ANGELA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

>>ALFREDO: THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE AND YOUR VIEWERS ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE, IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT.

THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: OKAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH, BYE, BYE.

AND I AM LORENE MILLS AND I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON THIS VERY ILLUMINATING EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE WITH ANGELA KOCHERGA AND ALFREDO >>ANNOUNCER: REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NATIONAL EDUCATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF NEW MEXICO, AN ORGANIZATION OF PROFESSIONALS WHO BELIEVE THAT INVESTING IN PUBLIC EDUCATION IS AN INVESTMENT IN OUR STATE'S ECONOMIC FUTURE, FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM