CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG AMY: WHAT DO DEMOCRATS NEED TO HEAR MOST RIGHT NOW GOING INTO THE MID TERMS?

>> BE AFRAID AND BE VERY AFRAID.

>> READY FOR PURPLE POLITICS?

>> I'M NOT ADVOCATING DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

THAT BEING SAID.

WE MADE SOME MISTAKES.

>> WHAT MISTAKES?

>> WE HAVE PEOPLE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL FOR OVERDOSING ON MARIJUANA.

WHOEVER HEARD SUCH A T THANK YOU.

NOW "IN PRINCIPLE" WITH MICHAEL GERSON AND AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 20818 AND BEYOND.

WASHINGTON LEADERS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE ARE BITTERLY DIVIDED ON A SET OF PRINCIPLES TO BRING OUR NATION FORWARD AND MISSING IS COHESIVE MESSAGING.

AMY: WE TALKED TO GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH, A REPUBLICAN AND GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER, A DEMOCRAT.

THEY TALKED ABOUT WORKING ACROSS PARTY LINES AND AWAY FROM PARTY POLITICS.

MICHAEL: HOW BOTH ARE GETTING IT WRONG.

AMY: RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE.

BILL, YOU HAVE POLITICIANS, THOUGHT LEADERS AND ENTERTAINERS ON YOUR SHOW EVERY FRIDAY.

IN THE TRUMP ERA, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IS THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE POST-OBAMA.

BILL: I THINK THEY ARE DIVIDED.

I THINK PART OF IS -- THE PROBLEM THEY ARE HAVING IS WHETHER WE SHOULD PLAY THE IMPEACHMENT CARD, SHOULD WE BE TALKING ABOUT IMPEACHMENT, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN THE PARTY WHO THINK THAT IS A BAD ROAD TO GO DOWN BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO GET THE REPUBLICAN BASE RILED UP AND MORE LIKELY TO COME OUT TO VOTE TO SUPPORT THEIR BOY IN THE FALL.

THAT MAY BE TRUE.

CERTAINLY ANTI--TRUMP IS NOT ENOUGH I THINK IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRATIC POLITICIAN.

I HAVE BEEN VERY HARD ON THE DEMOCRATS THIS YEAR.

I GUESS QUITE A FEW YEARS IN STEPPING UP THEIR GAME POLITICALLY AND STANDING BEHIND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

BUT I'M NOT A BIG FAN OF THIS TALK ABOUT BLUE WAVE, BECAUSE THAT, TO ME, SPELLS COMPLACENCY IN THE FALL.

MICHAEL: IN THE STRANGE POSITION WHO WANT REPUBLICANS TO LEARN A LESSON IN THE MID TERMS.

I'M WONDERING WHAT DO DEMOCRATS NEED TO HEAR MOST GOING INTO THE MID TERMS?

BILL: WELL, I THINK THEY NEED TO HEAR, BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID.

IF YOU DON'T GET OUT AND VOTE THIS TIME, BECAUSE DEMOCRATS, AS WE KNOW, ARE NOT THE BEST OF SHOWING UP AT THE MID TERMS ESPECIALLY WHERE THE DEMOCRATS COUNT ON THE MOST, THE YOUNG PEOPLE.

THEY TAKE A PASS ON THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS AND IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR THE COUNTRY IN GENERAL IF WE HAD A MORE BALANCED GOVERNMENT.

EVEN REASONABLE PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS HAVE DECIDED THAT TOO MUCH POWER IN THE HANDS OF ONE PARTY IS NOT A GOOD THING.

AMERICANS VERY OFTEN VOTE FOR GRIDLOCK ON PURPOSE BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CHECK THE OTHER PARTY.

AND WHEN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS HEADED BY A MAN LIKE DONALD TRUMP, THEY NEED TO BE CHECKED.

ON MY SHOW ON FRIDAY NIGHT, I WAS TALKING ABOUT EVEN IF THEY IMPEACH HIM, I DON'T THINK THEY WILL CONVICT HIM.

AND HE WOULD BE A MARTYR MORE THAN HE ALREADY IS TO HIS PARTY AND TO HIS FANS AND HE WOULD STILL BE IN OFFICE JUST THE WAY BILL CLINTON WAS IN OFFICE AFTER HE WAS IMPEACHED AND HE WOULD CALL IT FAKE NEWS AND SAY IT IS A WITCH HUNT AND OUT TO GET HIM.

IT COULD MAKE HIM MORE POPULAR AND STILL BE THERE.

IF HE WERE CONVICTED, HE WOULD PROBABLY RUN IN 2020.

CAN YOU RUN AGAIN?

AMY: BILL, RECENTLY, YOU DEFENDED LAURA INGRAHAM AGAINST A BOYCOTT LAUNCHED BY A PARKLAND STUDENT.

IS THERE STILL ROOM FOR PLURALISM AMONG LIBERALS OR IS THIS A PURITY PURGE WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW?

BILL: THIS IS A FIGHT I HAVE BEEN HAVING WITH MY BRETHREN FOR QUITE A WHILE.

I THINK CERTAINLY WE SEE TOO MANY INSTANCES WHERE LIBERALS WHO, I THINK, SHOULD OWN THE FIRST AMENDMENT THE WAY THE CONSERVATIVES OWN THE SECOND AMENDMENT, ARE NOT INTERESTED IN DOING THAT.

THEY ARE INTERESTED IN NEAR PURITY AND NO ONE ON THAT PANEL, INCLUDING A CONSERVATIVE WOULD AGREE WITH ME WOULD SAY I DON'T AGREE WITH HER ON MUCH, BUT SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT AND WHAT SHE SAID WASN'T THAT AWFUL.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE KIDS AT PARKLAND HAVE DONE A GREAT THING PUTTING THAT ISSUE ON THE TABLE IN A WAY THAT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE.

BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN THE ARENA AND MAKE AN ISSUE THAT IS AS POLARIZING AS THAT ONE FRONT AND CENTER, PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO ANSWER BACK.

YOU CAN'T BE A PROTECTED SPECIES WHEN YOU ARE OUT THERE LIKE THAT.

AND I DON'T LYING THE IDEA OF YOU SAID SOMETHING I DON'T LIKE, SO YOU HAVE TO GO AWAY.

AS YOU KNOW, I WAS A VICTIM OF THAT MYSELF.

AMY: RIGHT.

BILL: AND PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MAKE ME GO AWAY FOR ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

AND I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SURVIVE FOR 25 YEARS.

THEY DID IT ONE TIME.

AMY: SOMETHING HAPPENED TO YOU.

DID WE MENTION THAT SHOW?

BILL: YES.

YES.

ONLY FOR SIX MONTHS AND I WAS RIGHT BACK ON THE AIR.

FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR EVERY DAY.

YOU HAVE TO EARN YOUR WINGS OUT THERE ON A DAILY BASIS AND DONALD TRUMP IS NOT HELPING.

IT'S FUNNY, ON THE LIBERAL SIDE, THEY'RE NOT HELPING WITH THE CALLS FOR PURITY AND YOU GO AWAY IF IT TRIGGERS ME AND WHAT IS GOING ON.

WE HAD JORDAN PETERSON ON THE SHOW AND I SEE PEOPLE ARE MAD AT ME FOR HAVING HIM ON.

WHEN YOU READ THE THINGS HE SAYS, 25 YEARS AGO, IT WOULDN'T BE CONTROVERSIAL.

AMY: HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

AND YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW COLLEGE CAMPUSES HAVE BEEN THE PURITANICAL WITCH HUNT.

JERRY SEINFELD AND CHRIS ROCK SAID THE SAME THING.

HOW DID WE GET HERE THAT COLLEGE STUDENTS CAN'T HEAR A LATE NIGHT COMIC AT A COLLEGE?

BILL: ESPECIALLY, IF IT IS JERRY SEINFELD.

I COULD UNDERSTAND ME BEING CONTROVERSIAL.

I AM.

BUT WHEN JERRY SEINFELD IS TOO CONTROVERSIAL.

IT IS LIKE WHITENING TEETH.

[LAUGHTER] BILL: THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD BE PROTESTING.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, AMY.

I DON'T HAVE CHILDREN, AS YOU KNOW.

AND I THINK THAT DECISION LOOKS BETTER ALL THE TIME.

BUT AND I CERTAINLY ADMIT IN MY BUSINESS AND MY LIFE NEVER HAVE TO BE AROUND AND INTERACT WITH A CHILD.

BUT I DO SEE THEM ON TELEVISION -- [LAUGHTER] BILL: I DO SEE CHILDREN IN TELEVISION AND MOVIES.

AMY: THAT'S HOW I LEARNED ABOUT THEM.

BILL: EXACTLY.

THE PORTRAYAL OF THEM IN MOVIES AND TV CAN'T BE LYING ABOUT KIDS, ESPECIALLY UPPER MIDDLE-CLASS KIDS ARE MONSTERS AND SAY WORDS THAT I CAN'T SAY NOW BACK TO THEIR OWN PARENTS.

IF I EVER SAID A WORD LIKE THAT IN MY PARENTS IN A DEROGATORY MANNER, I WOULDN'T BE HERE TODAY.

AMY: FORGET IT.

BILL: YEAH.

YEAH.

I THINK IT'S WHERE IT BEGINS, WHEN YOU GROW UP IN A HOME AND TALK BACK TO YOUR PARENTS AND TREAT LIKE YOU ARE JUST SHORTER NOT ANY DUMBER, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY GROWING TO DO OR AND ALWAYS NEGOTIATING WITH THEM, NEVER -- I THINK JORDAN PETERSON SAID NEVER LET YOUR KIDS DO SOMETHING TO YOU THAT YOU DON'T LIKE THEM FOR.

I THINK PARENTS FORGOT ABOUT THAT.

SO, YOU TAKE THAT KID WHO SAYS, YOU KNOW, BLANK YOU, MOM.

WHEN THE MOM SAYS SOMETHING THEY DON'T LIKE AND THAT MOM IS ON CAMPUS, THAT IS THE KID THAT IS GOING TO BE SCREAMING AT THEIR PROFESSORS BECAUSE THE PROFESSOR -- YOU KNOW THAT VIDEO THAT WENT ON YALE WHERE THE WIFE WAS PASSING AROUND A LETTER THAT SAID, LET'S CHILL OUT A LITTLE ON THE HALLOWEEN COSTUMES.

MY HEAD IS EXPLODING.

I MEAN, I'M NOT A MARINE OR ANYTHING, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS GENERATION GOT SO FRAGILE.

THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

THEY ARE SO FRAGILE.

I CALLED THEM EMOTIONAL HEMO PHILIACS AND WRAP THEM IN IT SO NOTHING EVER TOUCHES THEM THAT UPSETS THEM IN ANY WAY.

AND WE HAVE TO LEAD OUR LIVES AND DON'T SAY ANYTHING THAT IS OFFENSIVE.

IT'S MADNESS AND HAS TO STOP.

MICHAEL: I HAVE KIDS THAT WATCH YOU BECAUSE THEY ARE REBELLIOUS.

YOU HAVE A TREMENDOUS PULPIT, SO TO SPEAK, ARE YOU AN ACTIVIST OR A COMEDIAN?

BILL: I'M A COMEDIAN.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT COMEDIAN I THINK THEY PUT IT IN THEIR KIRON.

PEOPLE WOULD LIKE ME TO BE MORE OF AN ACTIVIST.

MICHAEL: DO YOU VIEW YOURSELF OF HAVING A MISSION?

BILL: I HAVE A MISSION WHICH IS TO COME HERE TO MY STUDIO AND ENTERTAIN THE AUDIENCE AND DO SO IN A WAY THAT ENLIGHTENS THEM AS WELL.

WHEN I PICTURE THE PERSON WHO IS GOING TO BE WATCHING MY SHOW ON FRIDAY NIGHT OR WHEN IT IS REPEATED THROUGHOUT THE WEEK, I PICTURE SOMEONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN THE NEWS TO A DEGREE, OTHERWISE THEY WOULDN'T BE WATCHING AT ALL.

THEY COULD BE WATCHING "DANCING WITH THE STARS"."

BUT THEY PROBABLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME IN THEIR BUSY LIVES BECAUSE OF THOSE KIDS WHO TAKE UP ALL THEIR TIME AND SWEAR AT THEM, TO FOLLOW THE NEWS TO THE DEGREE THEY WANT.

I HAVE ONE HOUR ON FRIDAY NIGHT.

I NEED TO CATCH THESE PEOPLE UP ON WHAT ARE THE IMPORTANT STORIES THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK AND DO IT IN AN ENTERTAINING WAY BECAUSE IT IS AN ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK AND YES, I'M A COMEDIAN.

TO LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT I THINK.

THEY SHOULD BE AWARE OF.

THERE IS A SLANT I HAVE TO IT.

BUT I AM, IF I MIGHT SAY AND MOD ESSENTIALLY, ONE OF THE FEW HONEST BROKERS.

I GET BOOED A LOT BY OWN AUDIENCE, BY THE LIBERALS.

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET BOOED BECAUSE YOU ARE BOTH CONSERVATIVE.

I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO GET BOOED.

ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO DO SIMILAR SHOWS, THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE AUDIENCE AND AFRAID OF THE LIBERAL AUDIENCE AND NEVER SAY ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS THEM AND THE LIBERAL AUDIENCE NEEDS TO BE STRAIGHTENED UP.

I'M LOOKING TO MAKE MY TEAM BETTER.

AMY: DO YOU FEEL OPTIMISTIC WHERE POLITICS ARE GOING?

YOU TALKED ABOUT KIDS THAT NEED TO BE IN BUBBLE WRAPS.

IS THERE A GLIMMER OF HOPE?

BILL: ABOUT THE KIDS.

AMY: HOW ABOUT POLITICS?

BILL: EVERY TIME THERE IS A NEW GENERATION COMING UP, I HEAR THIS GENERATION IS BETTER.

WE'LL SEE.

GENERATIONS DO REBEL AGAINST THE ONE THAT CAME BEFORE THEM.

THE ONE THAT COMES AFTER THE MILLENIALS, I THINK THERE IS SOMEWHAT OF A BACKLASH AGAINST THAT.

AND THERE IS SOCIAL MEDIA.

THAT HAS TO BE CURTAILED AND I DON'T MEAN LEGALLY.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS A WAY WE SHOULDN'T DO THAT.

AND TAKE MR. ZUCKERBERG'S ADVICE ON REGULATION.

SENATOR GRAHAM SAID WHAT REGULATIONS WOULD YOU SUGGEST WE PUT ON THERE?

IS THAT THE WAY GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK?

I DON'T THINK SO.

YOU HAVE TO GET KIDS OFF THE PHONE.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A SOCIETY WHERE EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT THAT PHONE 24 HOURS A DAY AND NEVER INTERACTING ON A HUMAN LEVEL.

I THINK IT IS RETROGRESSING AND PEOPLE ONLY SEE THE INFORMATION THAT THEY ALREADY BELIEVE IN.

WE ARE NOT EXPANDING MINDS.

AND THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, IT REPLACED READING.

PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TAKING PICTURES OF THEIR LUNCH AND TALKING TO PEOPLE THEY CUT OFF FROM THEIR LIVES AND NOW ON FACEBOOK AND HAS TO FOLLOW WHAT THIS GUY DOES FOR LUNCH.

IT'S A GIANT, GIANT SOUL-SUCKING TIME WASTER.

MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IT IS DETRIMENTAL TO OUR SOCIETY.

AND TRUMP IS THE WORST PERSON EVERY.

I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC AT ALL.

I WOULD LIKE TO BE.

I'M NOT.

I DON'T SEE IT ENDING WELL AND I DON'T SEE HIM LEAVING AND THAT'S NOT GOOD.

AMY: BILL, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

BILL: I APPRECIATE IT.

GOOD LUCK WITH THE SHOW.

AMY: WHEN ASKED THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN DECIDING HOW TO VOTE IN THIS YEAR'S MIDTERM ELECTION, 23% SAID HEALTH CARE, 21% SAID GUN POLICY, 19% SAID IMMIGRATION AND JUST 8% SAID TAXES.

AND THESE ISSUES ARE JOHN KASICH'S FOCUS, TOO AND JOINED US DURING OUR TRIP TO DALLAS.

MICHAEL: WE APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

CAN I START OUT BY ASKING, GIVEN YOUR VIEWS AND YOUR VALUES AND YOUR SENSE OF URGENCY ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS, WHY WOULDN'T YOU RUN FOR PRESIDENT?

GOVERNOR KASICH: WELL, BECAUSE IT MIGHT NOT BE MY CALLING.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

EVERYBODY HAS TO UNDERSTAND OR TRY TO DECIDE INTERNALLY AS TO WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THEM.

AND SO I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S POSSIBLE THAT I WOULD THINK THAT IT WOULDN'T BE VERY EFFECTIVE.

BUT YOU KNOW, I'M A LONG WAY FROM THAT.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE GOT TO BUILD A TEAM OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO SEARCH FOR TRUTH IN WHAT IS BECOMING A POST-TRUTH ENVIRONMENT WHO CAN BE OBJECTIVE AND RATIONALE.

WE CAN COMMUNICATE AND EFFECTIVE.

AMY: GOVERNOR, YOU ARE HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN HAVE IT.

ARE AMERICAN VOTERS READY FOR PURPLE POLITICS LIKE THE KIND THAT YOU ARE ADVOCATING?

GOVERNOR KASICH: I'M NOT ADVOCATING DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

THE ONLY THING DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD ARE DEAD SKUNKS.

IT IS POSSIBLE TO COME TOGETHER.

LOOK, I WAS INVOLVED IN CREATING THE BALANCED BUDGET AND WHEN WE HAD SURPLUSES.

WE HAD THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AND WE HAD REPUBLICANS, IT WORKED .

THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY PURPLE AND DOESN'T MEAN YOU GIVE UP YOUR PRINCIPLES, YOU LISTEN AND STRUGGLE AND FIGURE IT OUT.

MANY THINGS ARE RESOLVEABLE.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY THAT IS WE CAN CLEAN UP WASTE, FRAUD AND ABUSE.

THAT IS A BIG FAT JOKE.

WE HAVE $23 TRILLION NATIONAL DEBT, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REPUBLICANS ARE DOING.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A TAX BILL, PAY FOR IT, OFFSET.

IT'S OUT OF CONTROL AND EVERYBODY IS JUST GETTING WHAT THEY WANT AND WHO PAYS THE BILL?

FUTURE GENERATIONS.

AMY: LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, GOVERNOR.

SPEAKER RYAN ANNOUNCED HIS RETIREMENT AND WAS THE HAWK ON ENTITLEMENT SPENDING TRYING TO EDUCATE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT THIS MUST BE DONE AND HE IS LEAVING.

WHAT DO YOU SEE IS THE FUTURE OF THE G.O.P.

WHEN IT COMES TO POLICY MAKING?

GOVERNOR KASICH: I DON'T REALLY KNOW.

AND LET ME GIVE YOU MY OBSERVATION AND IT OCCURS IN EVERYTHING.

IF YOU ARE IN POLITICS, YOU HAVE A CHOICE.

AM I GO GO TO DO WHAT I KNOW ARE THE RIGHT THINGS TO DO FROM A PUBLIC POLICY STANDPOINT OR AM I GO GO TO OVERLY WORRY ABOUT MY OWN ELECTION.

IT'S NORMAL FOR PEOPLE TO WANT TO KEEP THEIR JOBS.

THE QUESTION IS AT WHAT PRICE ARE YOU WILLING TO GIVE TO KEEP YOUR JOB.

MICHAEL: DONALD TRUMP'S MESSAGE IS REALLY CLEAR.

WE ARE BEING OVERWHELMED BY MIGRANTS AND TRADE.

WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVE REPUBLICAN NARRATIVE LOOK LIKE IN YOUR VIEW?

GOVERNOR KASICH: ANYBODY WATCHING LIVING IN A STATE WHERE YOU DON'T FEEL WELCOME, MOVE TO OHIO, WE NEED THE POPULATION GROWTH AND NEED YOUR ENERGY.

NUMBER TWO ON TRADE, WE NEED TO HAVE AN EXPEDITED PROCESS WHERE SOMEONE WHO IS CHEATING PROCESS AND CALL IT AND SAVE PEOPLE'S JOB.

BUT TO SAY WE ARE GOING TO PROTECT THE JOB, WE NEED TO FIND NEW SKILLS TO GET A NEW JOB OR BETTER JOB.

MICHAEL: HOW HAS IT CHANGED YOU AS A POLITICIAN?

GOVERNOR KASICH: WHEN YOU ARE A GOVERNOR, YOU ARE IN CONGRESS OR A SENATOR, YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE IN AN ORBIT AROUND THE MOON BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LOOKING AT REAL PROBLEMS WHICH YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SOLVE.

BEING GOVERNOR HAS CHANGED ME.

I USED TO SAY IT DIDN'T CHANGE ME.

IT HAS CHANGED ME.

MICHAEL: IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE HIGH IMPACT ON OUR SOCIETY AND CULTURE, WHAT WOULD YOU BE DOING?

GOVERNOR KASICH: PBS.

[LAUGHTER] GOVERNOR KASICH: THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS TO DO IT.

AND DESPITE ALL THE PROBLEMS WE SEE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, I THINK YOUR TRADITIONAL MEDIA, RADIO, TELEVISION, COMBINED WITH SOCIAL MEDIA CAN GIVE YOU A VOICE THAT IS UNIQUE.

AMY: DO YOU ENVISION A MEDIA FUTURE?

GOVERNOR KASICH: I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I WILL BE DOING.

MY FOCUS IS FINISHING MY TERM AS STRONGLY AS I CAN AND WE'LL WHAT HAPPENS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL HAPPEN?

I DON'T KNOW.

I WOULD LIKE TO BE IN DEMAND FROM SOME.

MICHAEL: GOVERNOR, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

GREAT DISCUSSION.

ENJOYED IT.

GOVERNOR KASICH: GOOD LUCK IN THIS NEW ENDEAVOR AND I HOPE IT'S A BIG, BIG HIT.

WE NEED IT.

MICHAEL: GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER KNOW HOW STATES ARE PROVIDING LEADERSHIP.

HE SPOKE TO US ON OUR TRIP TO DALLAS.

AMY: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY POST-2016 IS NOW THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE BEYOND #RESISTANCE?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: DEMOCRATS ARE ALSO GOING TO BE THE PARTY THAT PRIORITIZES SOCIAL JUSTICE AND CIVIL RIGHTS.

PART OF THE D.N.A.

THE GOVERNOR HAS TO WORK AND WE HAVE TO WORK TO GET PEOPLE TO BELIEVE IN THEIR GOVERNMENT.

THAT IS HOW A DEMOCRACY WORKS.

AMY: LET ME CHALLENGE YOU ON THAT.

FROM A NUMBER OF ADVANTAGE POINTS, LOOKS LIKE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS IN CONFLICT, SHOULD THEY GO MORE TO THE LEFT OR MORE PROGRESSIVE, WITH THE BLUE DOG DEMOCRATS AND SEEING IT IN 2018, WHAT SHOULD BE THE DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE GOING FORWARD?

AND I SEE A LOT OF DIFFERENT ANSWERS?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: IT'S A BIG CAMP AND SOMETIMES WE MISS THE REAL ISSUE.

YOU LOOK AT THE -- SHOULD COLLEGE BE FREE OR A WAY THAT KIDS COULD GET A SMALL AMOUNT OF DEBT AND PAY IT BACK EASILY.

MAYBE THE REAL QUESTION ISN'T REALLY THAT.

WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THE 65%, 70% NOT GETTING A FOUR-YEAR AGREE.

AND WE GET IN THESE BATTLES AND MISS THE REAL OPPORTUNITY.

MICHAEL: DEMOCRATS HAVE A NEW-FOUND LOVE.

IS THAT WHERE THE PROGRESSIVE POLICY ACTION IS AT RIGHT NOW?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: I THINK WHAT HAPPENS, WHEN YOU SEE AR NEW ADMINISTRATION UNRAVELING, A LARGE NUMBER OF IMPORTANT PROTECTIONS, RIGHT.

THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY -- I MEAN, THEY ARE THROWING THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER.

BIG CORPORATIONS ALWAYS CREATE THESE RULES.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT ALL THE TIME.

WHEN THOSE -- WHEN YOU ARE -- EDITING RULES AND REGULATIONS, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU EXPOSE PEOPLE TO POLLUTION OR INCENTIVIZE LARGE CORPORATIONS TO CONTINUE POLLUTING THE AIR OR THE WATER.

MICHAEL: COLORADO IS UNDERTAKING AN EXPERIMENT THAT THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS WATCHING.

WHAT SHOULD OTHER STATES BE LEARNING FROM COLORADO'S EXAMPLE?

>> NO OTHER STATE OR CITY IN THE WORLD EVER LEGALIZED MARIJUANA.

TAXING AND DOING ALL THAT STUFF, TRACKING THE PLANTS, NO ONE HAS EVER DONE THAT.

THAT IS A STEEP HILL TO BE THE FIRST ONE.

WE MADE SOME MISTAKES.

AMY: WHAT MISTAKES?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE, LIKE EDIBLES, THAT THEY WOULD PUT HIGH CONCENTRATION T.H.C.

AND EIGHT DOSES IN THE BROWNIE.

AND WE HAVE PEOPLE GOING TO THE HOSPITAL.

AMY: FROM GUMMY BEARS?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: WE OUTLAWED THAT AND SAID YOU CAN'T PUT T.H.C.

IN ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE CHILDREN'S CANDY.

SOME WOULD ARGUE, WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THAT COMING.

WE WERE THE FIRST.

WHEN PEOPLE ASKED ME IF THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA OR NOT, I SAID WE ARE LOOKING TO ASSESS THE DATA AND WORRIED ABOUT UNINTENDED CON -- CONSEQUENCES.

IT'S NOT GOING TO RAISE, $220 MILLION.

IT WON'T PAY FOR ALL-DAY CHILD CARE OR FULL-DAY KINDERGARTEN OR ANY OF THESE THINGS.

MICHAEL: DO GOVERNORS TAKE A GIFT APPROACH TO POLITICS AND IS IT BETTER THAN OTHERS?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: I OBVIOUSLY AM BIASED.

A GOVERNOR IS PARTISAN BUT MUCH LESS PARTISAN THAN WHAT WE SEE IN CONGRESS.

GOVERNORS IN THE END HAVE TO MAKE THE DECISIONS AND EVERY STATE, WE CAN'T CARRY DEBT AND HAVE TO BALANCE OUR BUDGETS AND HAVE TO WORK BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

AMY: WHY DON'T WE SEE THAT MORE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND THE SWAMP?

GOVERNOR HICKENLOOPER: I DON'T KNOW.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT SHOULD BE EASY.

BUT OBVIOUSLY, SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE GONE AND FRUSTRATED HOW INTRACT I BELIEVE IT IS NOW.

SO REALLY TALENTED CONGRESS PEOPLE AND SENATORS, THEY ARE SO -- TRYING TO FIND THE COMMON GROUND AND ONCE THEY FIND COMPROMISES, HOW DO WE GET THIS OUT OF COMMITTEE AND ONTO THE FLOOR AND GET IT DEBATED SO WE CAN MAKE PROGRESS.

MICHAEL: GOVERNOR, THANKS YOU SO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR INSIGHT.

AMY: THAT IS IT FOR "INPRINCIPLE."

THANK YOU FOR HOSTING US IN DALLAS.

CHECK OUT MORE "IN PRINCIPLE" ONLINE.

UNTIL NEXT TIME, I'M AMY HOLMES.

MICHAEL: I'M MICHAEL GERSON.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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