(bright music) - After a year off, thanks to the pandemic, we are back looking back on 2021 and a little prognostication on what 2022 may bring.

The old and the new, it's our "Year in Review" on inStudio.

(bright instrumental music) The last time we gathered to do this program was December of 2019.

There was energy and optimism as the new decade dawned.

But just a few short months into 2020, the world was up ended as COVID 19 slammed the brakes on life.

As we knew it, the world was forever changed.

In 2021, with the advent of COVID vaccines, some level of normalcy returned, but not without drastic change and controversy.

Our guests are journalists who cover and report the stories that matter.

While COVID was the headliner, it wasn't the only big story affecting our community, state, and nation.

We'll look back on 2021 and do a little prognostication about what we may expect to see in 2022.

Rick Outzen is a bit of a media juggernaut.

He is the owner and publisher of the Inweekly newspaper and a must read Rick's Blog.

He is also a published novelist, and now he is back on the radio.

His morning show, "Real News", airs weekday mornings from 7:00 AM until 8:30 on WCOA Radio.

Dave Dunwoody has covered Northwest Florida since 2002.

Over the years, he has held a variety of positions in broadcasting, including being Alabama Bureau Chief for United Press International.

Dunwoody is currently a producer and journalist at 88.1 WUWF Radio, our NPR member station.

Lisa Nellessen Savage is the executive editor of the Pensacola News Journal, a position she's held since 2014.

She has over two decades of journalistic experience, 17 of those being in executive management.

Tom Ninestine is new to our panel, but certainly no stranger to Northwest Florida.

From 1998 to 2016, he worked at the Pensacola News Journal, holding several positions over that time, including metro and opinion page editor.

Since 2019, Tom has been managing editor at WUWF 88.1 FM.

Andrew McKay, host of Pensacola's morning news on News Radio 92.3 FM has joined us in years past, but due to a scheduling conflict, he was unable to make it this year.

Just wanna throw that in there.

Didn't wanna think we pushed Andrew out.

(all laugh) So anyway, thank you all.

Welcome back after a year hiatus due to COVID.

I guess the big question is, what do you think the biggest effect has been on our community because of COVID?

- Well, I think that this is gotta be the longest year ever.

I mean, it's hard to believe that Biden's only been in office for not even a year, and that we've seen the division, the divisiveness on the national level come into our community, which was, I think what we feared two years ago.

And we've seen that politic happen here.

So it's been a draining year, even though if you look as a whole, we've got a lot of positives.

I mean, our economy is red hot, we've got ST Aerospace expanding, we have got downtown booming.

We've got issues with it as far as affordable housing and that, but all those are great things, but it still feels unsettled.

And it still stays with us.

- And Pensacola is following the national trend also.

This will change how a lot of companies will do business probably forever, because people now work at home, they can get their work done at home thanks to the technology, you don't have to be in an office or a cubicle, you can just do everything on your computer, in your house, in your home office.

And that is probably my guess is, is going to affect businesses, not so much with not a lot of people being there, but in overhead.

You don't have to pay for the office space that you had to before, you don't have to pay for the creature comforts for employees and like that, you just put them in their homes and then they contribute that way.

- I agree with that.

And I think it's also going to allow more people to move into markets our size.

It no longer says I've got to be in a major market.

- Well, we've seen that happen.

I mean, Florida West took a big move on that, work here.

If you wanna work anywhere, why not work with the beach here?

And I think we've seen, anecdotally, I've heard a lot of stories of people that have moved into the area, that worked with Google or in San Francisco or New York because the taxes are less in the place, but we're seeing some of that.

It's not measured yet, but I think we all are.

- It will be interesting maybe over the next couple of years or so to get the numbers on that.

Y'all ain't gonna have a big enough sample to get an idea of how it's affected the community.

- Well, look at the traffic too.

(all laugh and talk indistinctly) Tom, you were gonna add in, I saw you were ready.

- Yeah, we need to mention the schools and the impact that it has taken on not only the schools themselves, but the participation at school board meetings.

Parents are now questioning everything that the school district does.

Whether it's mask, whether it's the curriculum, I mean, parents who you know would never have gone to a school board meeting are now getting involved.

Sometimes that's a good thing.

- Right, yeah.

I mean, I think it's important that parents are involved in these decisions that are happening.

I think some of our school board meetings, not just locally, but state, nationally, they have gotten just kind of off the rails.

And we praise these teachers so much in the beginning, much like we praise nurses, and now it's almost that reverse where we're starting to really kind of beat up on them.

And I don't think that's because of anything that's happening locally, so much is discourse at a national level.

- I'm concerned that people will run on an anti mask campaign, but there are so many other things that school board members have to do.

- And that's scary because the lawmakers right now are looking at making school board races partisan.

To where you're gonna run because you're part of a party.

And we've never done that, it's always been bipartisan.

And typically, locally over the years, is that even though you run for county commission on a party, party hasn't been a play in our politics, and it's starting to happen.

The other thing, even as divisive as the vaccine has become and mask has become, our community has done well.

I was looking at today, the CDC, we've got 71% of our community that's 18 or older that have at least gotten one shot.

61% have completed their series.

So it's a small group that is stirring up the pot while the rest of the community is recognizing the need to get vaccinated, the need to protect your family and your loved ones.

And so it's odd that the other thing is we have a vocal minority that's stirring the pot and a governor that plays to that crowd.

And we had a presidential, the incumbent, Donald Trump played to that crowd.

If they don't win elections, and whether DeSantis can win the election with this will be different, but the general public is different from what we're getting from some of our politicians.

- And it puts us in a very hard spot as journalists, because we've all known for years that the more you give attention to something, the more that it's going to just kind of blow up.

And we've tipped the scales a little bit now where we've given a lot of attention to that very small minority, and it seems as if it's a much larger issue or discussion happening in our own homes when it's truly not.

- I wanna ask this question for all of you.

You talk about the mask, you talk about Governor DeSantis, and he took a stand on that.

I mean, couldn't he just as easily have pushed that off and said let the local communities make that decision?

I mean, do you think that was a good political gamble for him long-term?

I mean, he could have said, "Hey, if Escambia County doesn't want mask, that's fine, if Palm Beach County does, that's fine too."

I mean, from a political standpoint, I would've thought that would've been the safest way to play it.

- I was gonna say, it depends on if you're talking about politically in Florida or politically on a national scale.

Because on a national scale, that could really play into his favor.

We've seen candidates that kind of came from out of nowhere that have really gotten the limelight.

And did people nationally know Governor DeSantis's name two years ago?

I don't know that they did.

But when he started saying those very provocative things, that's when national media, he really started to get some attention.

- And I think he wants, maybe not all, but a good portion of Donald Trump's voter base in case he decides to make a national run or he gets put on the ticket for 2024.

He feels, I would imagine, that it's very important that he follow and, for want of a better word, parrot Trump into these policies because that's what works with this particular group of voters.

- Well, what's scary though, what we're seeing is home rule is becoming less and less.

We elected Grover Robinson as mayor, we elected a council, if they believe that for our community, we should have mask, or if a school board believes that to protect their students, or they're having a spike that's different than other counties in the state, they're not allowed to do that.

In fact, it's criminal now for them to even do.

So we're taking more and more power away from the people that we have personally elected over a governor that depends on other parts of the state to determine.

So we're losing more and more home rule every legislative session, and it's politics of the moment.

Because it's going to flip, it's not gonna be Republican forever.

So what happens when we get a governor elected that doesn't do, it could flip the entirely different way.

And we're taking away home rule, and that really, really bothers me.

- Well, and it's fascinating particularly considering it's a party that built itself on being less government.

Government shouldn't be involved and that's- - Yeah, home role was always a Republican thing.

- Right.

Well, yeah.

And now they're getting into business.

Hospitals require mask or vaccinations.

No, we're gonna tell you what your business can do.

I guess it's a libertarian view that's being approached as being under the Republican mask, but it's scary to me that mayors in cities and council members and commissioners and school boards aren't allowed to determine what's best for their community.

Because if we don't like them, we can put them out of office.

But the governor is making it where he's given all the power.

It's scary.

It's scary.

- And I think at some point, if they keep on with this, and pushing and pushing the outside of the envelope, I think at some point, they're going to cross over into constitutional territory, First Amendment or like that, and then that's when the lawsuits are gonna begin to push back.

- So the other side of the coin is we're reporting a lot of very young people to these courts.

Now it hasn't worked, I mean, fortunately, we have judges that are being judges and judging by the law, but still it's frightening to see there's a feeling that there's no way to battle this.

- And the other side of the coin is you talk to people in California and places like that, and they say, "Hey, this thing's gone way too far," as far as pushing the mask issue and things like that.

So there doesn't seem to be a balance from them from just the anecdotal.

Who ever thought mask would become such a rallying cry on both sides?

(all laugh) I don't know.

Before we leave DeSantis, I mean, what do you think the chances are?

I mean, I'd be willing to bet you lunch that he'll run for the Republican nomination.

- After everything I've seen so far, it looks like he has a better than breakeven chance of being reelected governor before then.

And then that is really going to, I think if he doesn't get reelected, that's really gonna solidify any plans he may have for 2024.

But you've still got that 800 pound gorilla at Mar-a-Lago that hasn't made his mind up yet if he's gonna run again.

And I think just about the entire Republican party is waiting on him to announce his decision before everybody can jockey for positions for the other elected offices.

- You guys have any thoughts on it?

The same as well?

- Yeah, I think anytime you have a Florida governor with national name recognition, they are immediately presidential timber.

There are just some states that are like that.

- Yeah, Bob Graham was that way when he was gonna run.

- Sure.

- And does Trump run?

And I know we're jumping way out ahead, but I couldn't help but ask the question.

Do you think he runs again?

- Oh, I do.

- Do you?

- I think his ego needs to be fed, and he needs to right what he sees is wrong.

- A lot of people need to stay out of jail, so they need him in office.

- For the pardon power.

(all laugh) - And he's 75 years old and not in the best of health.

So you've got to factor that in too.

That's not a slam on, it is just a fact that he is at age and he is overweight.

And from all the reports I've seen, he's not gonna live until he's 200 years old.

He's gonna have to deal with that.

- I think the interesting thing about DeSantis is he has taken what Rick Scott did.

When Rick Scott was governor, Rick Scott ignored newspapers, he ignored the media.

He never did an Editorial board.

You have a press conference, he was gonna give you answers that he wanted, not answer a question.

DeSantis does daily press conferences.

So he's immediately in the media every day, and because of the way the news cycle works, he gets in unquestioned.

And then the media catches up later with editorials, with other to say, "Wait, this doesn't quite," it's like the (indistinct) point.

We got an announcement, we're gonna get the toll rolled down.

- Eight months ago.

- Doug Broxson is crying, he's so happy, and everyone is cheering, and the band is playing, and the toll has not changed.

- No.

- But that was, he got the news blip of the day.

So he's controlling the daily news story, much as Trump did.

And so it's a certain amount of brilliance to it.

And we're now in a world where the politicians no longer care about how we cover them.

Yeah, and the public is searching, I think they still listen to us.

They're still caring what we have to say, and we still have influence, but he is on that same Rick Scott path.

And now Rick Scott's lost because he doesn't have the governor's seat.

And he's trying to be a voice on the national level, and it's just not quite working as well as it worked from that spot.

- But Rick Scott also doesn't have the charisma that DeSantis has either.

- Oh, okay, I think compare the two, Rick Scott has more charisma than DeSantis does.

- Interesting (laughs).

- That is the difference between chalk and mill.

(all laugh and talk indistinctly) I mean, do you know what I mean?

No, I mean, DeSantis is a manufactured personality.

He's a bully.

He's a bully.

But Rick Scott just worked his way through it.

So he has better handlers, and they both have a certain mystique that's built around them because they can raise ungodly amount of money because they take care of their supporters.

- You mentioned Grover Robinson a few minutes ago.

Were you surprised that he announced that, "Hey, I'm not interested in running for mayor again," after one term?

- I was surprised when he made the announcement on the Monday I was on vacation.

(all laugh) I told him the next week, I saw him, I said, "You couldn't wait a week?"

But no, I'm not that surprised given all of the criticism and all of the flack that he's taken, because he's not wishy washy politician, he makes a decision on something.

And he said, okay, here's what I wanna do.

He may have to get counseling on it, but this is what his plan is going in.

And he's caught some flack over it.

And I guess he finally realized that I don't even know if this is worth it anymore.

I don't know if I can get anything done with the flack that I'm catching and battling the city council and everything else.

So I think in a way, maybe he saw a lot.

- I agree, I wasn't surprised.

I was surprised he announced it so soon.

I thought it's a long time to be a lame duck, but I think it was that the council was clearly not in step with him.

And at that point it just became, nothing that he could do could ever really go through when you had a council that was going to fight you.

And it was clear that that wasn't going to change.

- Yeah, it's been a rough term for him.

I mean, I thought he handled the pandemic well.

His weekly updates about hospitalizations and really linking the public to what's going on in the hospitals as far as the percentage of ICU beds that are available and that kind of thing, provided an awful lot of information.

I agree with Lisa that if you're at odds with your council, it's an uphill battle all the time.

- And to expand on what Tom just said about the transparency of the administration, we have the weekly morning with the mayor, he goes up there, he gives us at least a 45, sometimes even longer minute news conference, he goes through anything, answers questions, does everything.

It was a refreshing change from the previous administration, when you started having to look for Ashton Hayward's picture on a milk carton, 'cause you didn't know where he was.

- Yeah, I was impressed that he kept his commitment that he would do that.

We just honored him with the Civican Award earlier this week, because he said he'd do it, and not only did he do it, he truly will answer any questions.

He doesn't always have the answer, and then he'll keep talking.

And sometimes, they have to go back behind him and correct him, but that's okay because it's a quick correction, and he's willing to talk about it and not hide it.

And I think that even during COVID, when they were remote, he didn't look for an excuse to end those, and that was impressive.

- No, he's very approachable and always will pick up the phone.

I hate to see him go because I feel like he stabilized city government to where now they've hired well, the first time we've ever gone out of the Pensacola Police Department to find a chief, the hires have been good, the stability of government, they've dealt with all government's dealing with, is trying to find people because jobs are so competitive now, but he's done a really good job.

I hated to see him do it.

Part of me wasn't surprised, because part of the problem was Grover as a county commissioner, you negotiate in public.

Here, you've got to really work with the council members and develop a give and take type of operation.

And he never quite set that up properly to where he had those sort of relationships that he could do that.

Of course you bring in the other factors, you bring in almost an entirely new council.

Sherri Myers is the oldest council member, the longest standing council member, but the rest of them are in their first term, and a lot of them were just elected.

So it makes challenges, but he didn't quite have the system in place of someone that could try to negotiate or work things out.

So things have stalled, but on the other side of the coin, they've taken on climate change, they've taken on homelessness, they've let the people run the enterprise accounts to where the port and the airport are successful.

He hasn't shied away from any of it.

And he took COVID when the county had a different politic, and he was willing to step up and put in rules that got pushed back.

So I hate to see him go because I feel like we've got that stability, but him leaving city government is at a level that it was before that we had 10 years ago, and that's good.

It's organized and well done.

- And he always struck me as this happy warrior.

Has anybody here ever seen Grover in a bad mood?

- That's right.

- I have.

- I've seen him frustrated, certainly.

- Oh yeah.

- But I don't think just generally walks into a situation.

- No.

(indistinct) - But he's always up, he figures this something's not going right here, and let's sit down and let's figure out how to do this better or how to do it right and everything.

The next mayor, it's gonna be very interesting to see what policies the next mayor adopts from the Robinson administration and how many that they bring in on their own.

That's gonna be probably a major point to covering the mayor's race.

- Speaking of that, so how does that look?

I mean, the big name out there is obviously D.C. Reeves.

What do you think?

Anybody else step up, you think?

- I think as we get maybe into the new year and people start exploring their possibilities and their chances, we may see two or three step up and at least explore the possibility, and maybe one or two get into the race.

And the primary is in August, so the clock's ticking here.

So somebody has got to make a decision soon.

- I think it's too late.

I think if you haven't already declared that you are going to, at least, even if the rumors are out there.

I mean, he has built up a lot of momentum.

He's got support.

Even if they haven't come out publicly and said it, from everything I've heard and people I've spoken to, he has got pretty significant support in various sectors in the community.

He certainly has raised an incredible amount of money.

I believe he set a record that very first month, the first 30 days.

It would be hard at this point, I think for someone to step in cold.

- Well, obviously early on, David Morgan was going to run and he stepped away, I guess, due to some family issues, and then of course the statue situation happened.

I'm gonna let you talk a little bit about that, Rick, because you interviewed him shortly thereafter, right?

So tell the story.

- Well, yeah.

(laughs) He told the story.

I think that was not the brightest decision that he's made.

He admitted that, and he reimbursed the county for the cost of the statue.

I think that it's hard to believe, knowing how the command staff works at the Sheriff's office, that he did that.

He took a picture of himself, ordered it, signed the check, and no one else knew about it.

(all laugh) Yeah.

So it's kind of hard to believe that all of a sudden he just appeared and everyone was surprised.

I think that he was also a victim of supply chain and that it didn't come in when he was in office where he could defend it.

But I think that you're looking at, it does make a lot of sense, it did make a lot of sense, particularly when you look at tight budgets and what people are doing, I think that to me, it's unfortunate because having dealt with a lot of sheriffs over the years, and the people that we've had, he was really a catalyst for change in how law enforcement was done.

And to see that this sort of tarnishes his legacy to some extent is hard to take, because we look at how much professionalism in what they did.

So that to me was hard, but we were able to get him and get him on the air and talk about it.

And he had his reasons for why he thought it was good.

But at the end, he admitted that it really probably wasn't the best idea and that he reimbursed the taxpayers for it.

I don't know where it is right now, I think it's still at the Sheriff's office.

- Maybe over with the Confederate money.

- It could be.

- But I do like though, they made a second statue that's kind of been lost in all this, is statue that honors a canine unit at ECSO.

Now I think a lot of people liked that, and I don't know if that's on display or not, but that was something worthwhile.

- Interesting.

Speaking of new players, I mean, obviously Sheriff Chip Simmons came in as the new sheriff, and then also Michelle Salzman, since the last time we talked, was elected for the house seat, against Mike Hill.

And talk about that a little bit.

I mean, was that a surprise to any of you?

- I think it was a shock.

If you consider tradition, it is extremely difficult to overcome a sitting - Incumbent.

- incumbent even if that person is not popular.

- For Salzman, we're talking about Salzman.

- For Salzman specifically.

Very difficult to do that.

I know the polling early on showed that it was near impossible, and she just...

I don't know that I've met someone who works harder.

I mean, she is, from as long as I've known her long before she had political ambitions, this was a woman who would, she was almost a professional volunteer, she was at every event, she never asked for anything in return.

I was surprised when she announced she was running.

I didn't see that, but as soon as she did, she threw her entire self in it.

And you saw that polling go up every single month, more and more.

I still think we were all shocked that they could do it, but I think it's a positive sign for any community that you can bring someone in new and that you don't always have to... And that scared a lot of newcomers away knowing that you couldn't beat the incumbent.

So who knows who'll run in the future for different roles?

- I think the last time we saw something like that happen was when Grover beat Tom Benjamin for county commission for, the last time it was Tom was a long time incumbent.

And Mike was by far the least effective lawmaker in the legislature and was known for being that, but he played to his constituents.

So that was huge.

Chip was not a surprise in that, I mean, Morgan hired him and ordained that he would be the successor.

And Chip is putting his own brand on that office.

I think that wasn't a surprise.

And he's a career law enforcement officer and has worked corrections, Pensacola police chief, SWAT.

So he's bringing a certain level of expertise, probably we haven't had in that office that has that deep of an experience that he has.

But you're right, he is a new major player on the stage and their community outreach has been impressive.

The Blazer Academy, what Ronnie Rivera is doing for him, (indistinct) and Wiggins are doing.

And if we're going to make a dent in the crime wave that we've got and that we've had, that is how we're gonna do it, is building relationships in the community.

And they've started doing it.

I'd like to see more diversity at the command staff.

I'd like to see that they do their hiring a little bit differently.

I think that would be helpful.

I think Pensacola Police Department with Eric Randall is impressive.

Well, he's our second black police chief, but he's coming from out of town with Pensacola roots.

And if any department needed fresh air, it was Pensacola Police Department.

And I think it's really made a difference.

- Especially at a time across the nation where the public trust with the police is really at a boiling point.

- Right.

- And to have those outreach things in the community, people go in, they'll say, "Geez, cops aren't really that bad.

They're giving out barbecue, they're giving away bicycles, they were at my kids' school."

- I had Chip on my other program conversations, and we sat down and spoke for about 30 minutes.

And if you have an opportunity it's on YouTube or wsrp.org, but I think it really gives you a sense of what he's all about.

And I think he's from the area, he's from the community, grew up here, went to high school here.

I think he's genuine and cares and wants to make difference here.

- That's the word.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Well, in much like you were talking about Grover earlier, Chip is someone who is accessible, he answers questions, he takes the calls from the media and he addresses topics head on even when they're difficult.

He'll say, we might not agree on this, but he will talk, he doesn't shy away.

And it's been a very difficult year, I think, for any head of a police, because of what is happening on a national level, but he's not afraid to talk about it.

- We'll take a real quick break here for about 30 seconds and then we're gonna come right back and continue our "Year in Review" show.

You're watching inStudio on WSRE television PBS for the Gulf Coast.

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(bright music) (upbeat music) - Welcome back.

This is inStudio on WSRE television PBS for the Gulf Coast.

We are discussing the stories that define 2021.

Our guests are Lisa Nellessen Savage from the Pensacola News Journal, Tom Ninestine, I should say, and Dave Dunwoody from our local NPR member station WUWF 88.1, and Rick Outzen, the publisher of Inweekly, and also morning radio host on 1370 AM WCOA.

Well, we have to talk about Matt Gates and his ordeal.

What do you make of it?

- I look for a big story breaking maybe in the first quarter of 2022.

I think they're far along enough in the investigation that by then they'll have wrapped it up and made a decision.

- [Jeff] What do you think, Rick?

- It's a candle that has burned bright and for a long time, and they haven't been able to nail him yet.

I think for anything, I believe that if it was gonna happen, it would have happened a lot sooner.

So I am not as confident as Dave with the deal.

I think there's no doubt that he dated a lot and that he was a bachelor in doing that.

I don't know, there's a creep factor to all of it.

And I think that's the unsettling part of it.

So I think smart money will say something.

If there's that much smoke, there's gonna be fire.

But it's just to me, this has drag on so long.

I'm just wondering why is it taking this long to do it?

- Tom?

- Yeah, that's a good point.

I just wonder when the sentencing for his friend, Mr. Greenberg was delayed, that perhaps they were gonna try to squeeze him to get some more juice before his sentencing.

- Lisa?

- I agree, they keep delaying it, and they say that they're getting more information.

I think it's inevitable.

- Gonna be interesting.

Well, at what point do you think the Republican Party says, okay... Let's just say nothing happens, let's just say nothing happens from a legal standpoint.

Does the Republican Party in Northwest Florida say we want him to continue to be our guy?

- I mean, I think they will.

I mean, certainly, but you saw the redistricting that's been proposed and his district is changing.

He's losing most of Walton County, it's moving into more likely to be Democratic voters, certainly not in a normal year, enough to overcome any type of gap, but there has been polling that says Rebecca Jones was in his current district within, I believe I saw eight points, which is a lot of gap.

But you remove him from Walton County and you start changing that a little bit.

The fact that the GOP allowed those boundary changes, I think says a lot for his poll with his peers.

- And if he does get reelected and the Democrats keep control of the house, he may go to the sidelines with Marjorie Taylor Green and get stripped of his committee assignments.

I'm not saying it's gonna happen, I would say it's a possibility if those building blocks fall into place.

So one way or the other, there will be some Matt Gate news in '22.

- Well, Matt has been absent from the district.

And even that has been the kiss of death for politicians for years, is when you're spending all your time on a national basis, that the voters wanna see you.

I mean, we need a strong congressman defending our basis here because we need that.

We've got a 7th grade class at creative learning that's been trying to interview him just for their class, that he won't respond to them.

He hasn't had a press conference or town hall meeting where we can ask questions.

So he has avoided us and avoided the constituents, that the questions about whatever these cases are and all the news stories, people want answers.

And they wanna hear it from him directly, not on Newsmax or Steve Bannon's blog or whatever.

They wanna see him here and answering questions.

And he hasn't done that yet.

- And if he- - Not in Wyoming going after Louis Cheney, not out in California making appearances for other Congress people.

Yeah, you need to have a congressman here.

(indistinct) - And he wasn't always like that, because when he first took office, I covered a couple of events, kind of town hall.

There was one at a local restaurant, a lot of people showed up, lot of protesters showed up in the parking lot, and he got out of the car and he walked up and he started talking to them, explaining his position on certain issues and like that before he went in to meet with his supporters.

So he didn't always use to shy away from people like that.

- He was also, I believe, out helping the free Brittany campaign (indistinct).

- Yeah, he embraced that.

Right.

(indistinct chatter) - He's taking on very extreme views in very extreme cases because he's not getting the attention that he used to.

I mean, he is not on Fox like he was all the time.

I don't even know, is he still on Newsmax?

I'm not sure that he is.

I know Bannon was as big someday but.

- My bad (indistinct).

But I think the other thing, we really haven't seen him much here since Hurricane Sally.

Now he did step up, he did help us get out water and ice, and he worked, but since then, and particularly, of course this all happened and broke in March and April of this year, God, it seems like last year, but we haven't seen him here.

He hasn't done a press conference.

He did one interview with Channel Three that was pretty tightly controlled, but he hasn't a free for all which is what I like.

I wanna have a press conference where we all get to ask questions.

And you're right, Dave, he used to relish that.

But he's run away from the people here.

- Remember before the scandal type stuff broke, there was a rumor or a speculation that he was going to step away from Congress to be a television personality.

Remember that?

- He announced it the day before (indistinct).

- Right, he was teasing it.

Yeah, it was a pretty strong rumor.

I mean, yeah, we actually reported on it.

And as this was going on and that, and then of course, you can't talk about Gates without the future Netflix show, "Project Homecoming", where the guy's out on nice little Fort Walton Beach, we got to extort his father for $20 million (laughs).

- We may see him someday in life after LACA.

- So all that being said, scandal aside, criminal charges or no criminal charges or anything, regardless of all that, do you think maybe he's just had enough of it, and maybe doesn't run again, regardless?

- It appears that way.

- I mean, do you think he's just like, "I'm done, I'm gonna go do something else."

- To back Gates?

- Yeah.

- I don't think so.

- Do you think he'll run?

- He loves what's happening right now with (indistinct).

- No.

Right.

- I mean, he's got power and position.

There was thought at one time he might run for attorney general or even for commissioner of agriculture, because Fried is going for governor.

I think he's stuck.

Congress is the only national stage he can get on.

And none of the news networks seem to be offering him an opportunity to go there.

They might, I mean, Sean Spicer has a show, so I guess anybody could have a show.

But yeah, it's hard to tell about that part.

I don't see him leaving Congress.

I don't see him not running.

- Well, do you think that he will get a strong challenge from a legitimate strong Republican contender?

- We haven't seen that yet, so I don't know.

- Yeah, I don't think so.

- And who would it be?

- It's very rare.

It's very rare.

I mean, the other thing that he has is because of what he does nationally.

He does have fairly different, the ability to raise money.

So if someone were to go against him, he'd have to be someone that has local dollars that would be willing to go in it or is of their own personal money.

I think Rebecca Jones is a stronger candidate than the Republicans have tried to make her.

They've tried to portray her as a nut and sideline her.

And if you listen to her, she's a smart woman.

She's not from this area, and she's moved to the area, that'll be some of a handicap, but she is a sharp person.

So Gates will probably never debate her because then you run away from any kind of controversy, which seems to be what he's doing, but Rebecca is a strong candidate.

- But can a Democrat run in this district?

- I've always said that if a Democrat has a chance of winning in this district, they have got to be what I call an Earl Hadlow Democrat, who was Congressman.

- Sure, congressman.

- Yeah, Earl Earl Hadlow Democrat to me is fiscally conservative, socially moderate, and very strong on defense.

And that's what Earl did.

- Yeah.

And he passed away since the last time we met.

And I had a chance to interview him over the years, a wonderful gentleman.

Other folks who have gotten in trouble this year, what do you think of Ed Gray?

Was that a surprise, (indistinct) left field?

- I think that was more surprising than Matt Gates, certainly, but it was shocking and it was very quick.

In that case, you did see people immediately step away and say this is not something that we can tolerate.

- Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about some great personalities in our community that we've ended up losing over the past year or even year and a half and two years.

The first name that comes to mind is Fred Levin, who has really made a tremendous mark on our community.

And I'll get you guys to kind of talk a little bit about his legacy.

- I'd say his legacy is the law school at University of Florida that bears his name, and also his involvement with the tobacco lawsuits.

He was one of the few lawyers when that got started, who just weren't afraid to jump in with both feet.

He saw a wrong that needed to be righted, and he followed through.

- Yeah, I love Fred.

I mean, Fred and I fought and argued, and the sad thing, it was COVID that got him.

Brain cancer, all the things he went through, and then in the end it is a flu situation where he got exposed.

And he was such a bigger than life person, but he was a son of Pensacola.

He walked down the street and everybody, "Mr.

Levin."

I mean, he had that touch about him that everyone felt like they could approach him.

And was always a kind person.

I mean, in quotes and things, he could be in a fight, he could be aggressive, but really was always really kind.

And I know that it's hard not to have a Fred Levin, 'cause how many times have we covered a story or in some ways, as soon as something bad happens, "Well, I'm calling Fred Levin.

I mean, Fred Levin is my attorney, that's why I'm calling Fred Levin."

So I mean, his name was used on everything.

That was the deal, because he ran the ads where he would return the phone call.

- And he did.

- He did.

- He absolutely did.

- He got a piece of every case they got if he answered the phone.

(all laughing) But, yeah, it's hard to have a Pensacola without a Fred Levin.

- Yeah, he's on our Mount Rushmore.

There's no question about it.

- It's hard not to have him.

- And you think of all the money that he has donated, you mentioned University of Florida Law School truly, but also the University of West Florida, IHMC, and the Gulf Coast kids.

(indistinct chatters) - Yeah, there's UWF Football Team.

When you think aback, they've gone to two national championship games in their history, and Fred Levin was a major part of forming that program.

And so that's also a good part of his legacy.

- Yeah, well, he will definitely be missed in the community and in the legal world for sure.

Leo Thomas, one of his law partners, also passed.

- Leo Thomas, a former, Narc criminal defense guy, rough newt guy, New Yorker, we lost him, and he was another one of those great storytellers that he would be at the cigar factory, smoking cigars, or just he could tell you real soprano stories.

I mean, yeah, he was just a fascinating person too.

- Yeah, and then just here in the past few days, Mike Bass, who was city councilman and county commissioner.

- Oh, without a doubt.

Mike, I mean, in the '80s and '90, his family, they owned the Pepsi franchises across the air distributorship, owned university mall, was a council member.

And I did a story on him that's why I know all of this.

Santa Rosa Island Authority, he chaired that board, he was the county commissioner.

Unfortunately, he got caught up in the WD stuff, which in the end, he was really aside.

He got charged with a lot of the same things.

All the charges got dismissed other than two sunshine violations, which he pleaded no contest to, and helped the state with their prosecution of WD.

So he got caught in that, but innovative, smart, he was a poet, and to have him battle Parkinson's and to lose him was another one.

Doug Alford is another one out of that era of the '90s that set the foundation that Quinn and others were able to build on.

But they've kind of been out of the limelight for a while, but they were big.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I didn't know Mike as well as I knew Doug, but Doug was just a gentleman, just a nice guy and always willing to help folks.

And then John Appleyard, obviously.

- Right.

- I mean, it broke your heart when Mr. Appleyard had passed away.

I mean, he was Pensacola's biggest true leader.

He loved this community more than anyone I have ever seen love a community.

And he told our story everywhere he went.

Anytime he had the microphone, he was going to champion us and our history, and he didn't want that loss.

Just losing him was a general loss as well.

- I'll never forget an interview I did with him several years ago.

It was gonna be a phone interview, I called him at his home.

And he answered very nice, he says, "Can you do me favor?"

I said, "Sure, what is it?"

He goes, "Can you call me back in about an hour?"

"Yeah, I can do that, but can I ask why?"

He said, "Well, Cubs room."

(all laugh) John was a dyed-in-the-wool Chicago Cubs fan.

- That's great.

- I think he grew up near or in Chicago.

- He would take the train into town to watch them.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

Well, you're a big bears fan, right?

Oh big Bears fan.

He didn't love them nearly as much as he loved the Cubs, but he still loved them.

- (laughing) That was great.

And then Don Parker.

- Yeah, I mean, Mr.

Comedy.

I mean, Don, I've kind of taken his role over at NCOA.

And Don was deputy, public information officer, author, he wrote books that were extremely self-published that were extremely popular about his strange stories that happened to him as a deputy.

I started when he passed, I went back and went through y'all's archives, and just, he was the emcee for everything.

And he worked on his comedy constantly, and he loved radio and was there to his last breath still doing the radio show.

And you look at his span, he was a playwright, he was an actor, he was a comedian, an author.

Yeah, to lose him.

And then you look at, in the black community, we lost pastor Yates, who was an unbelievable spiritual leader for the community, Dr. Parsa Goodman, and his granddaughter too, who was just in her 20s, passed away from COVID.

Marilyn Wesley who helped really kick off the Brownsville Community Center and helped staff it and get it going.

And I think that's the other piece that I know I'm taking off just a little bit, is that the thing we haven't done as a community is really recognize the lives we've lost through COVID.

- [Jeff] Yeah, good point.

- We've de-humanized that.

I mean, the state quit giving us the numbers, people don't put it in obituaries because worried about a stigma.

And we have services for everything else.

I'd like to see that next year, if there's some way we could all get together and figure out how to do that, because we've lost some really important people that we wouldn't have lost any other way without this.

- Yeah, people that really kind of helped shape this community - Right.

Right.

- along the way.

Well, as we start looking ahead, as we look to 2022, what's gonna be the big story?

And I know we're guessing and prognosticating, but what's the big stories that roll into 2022?

- Last time you asked us that, COVID happened, so.

(all laugh and chatter indistinctly) I'm afraid to say anything.

- And I mean, you think back about that, I mean, who would have thought?

I mean, that was just something that completely came out of left field.

- I can't believe we're entering our third year battling this.

And a lot of it is politics.

And it's a shame because there are a lot of people out there looking to the leadership to tell us how to get through this, but when they argue about it, when putting a mask over your face to help save your neighbor's life becomes a bad thing, we may be looking at this for five years, who knows?

And it's a real shame.

- It will be at the forefront again, especially with the new variant on the way, we don't know what that's gonna look like or how severe that's gonna be just yet.

But COVID, I think I'm safe to say COVID has affected our lives pretty much permanently.

Where we work, where we eat, what we do, it's always in the back of the mind that am I gonna do this, am I gonna expose myself to COVID, or am I gonna expose somebody else and I don't know their habit, and like that.

So it's gonna be on everybody's mind again.

Plus we have state elections coming up, state and local elections coming up.

And I can't speak for the local yet, but just from where I've seen, covering on the statewide level, it's gonna get nasty.

It's gonna be worse than anybody has ever seen.

- What makes you think that?

I mean, other than the obvious, but I mean, you're covering it day to day, what are you hearing on the ground so to speak?

- Let's start with the governor's race.

Ron DeSantis may feel that I've got to win reelection, have a shot at the White House two years down the road, and his opponents, Nikki Fried and Congressman Charlie Crist, former Republican governor, they're just gonna be firing back and forth at each other, especially if the most recent poll or the recent polls show Crist still pretty close within margin of error of DeSantis.

There's gonna be a lot of verbal buckshot firing out there.

And I don't think it's gonna come down that far to the local level.

The mayor's races here, since I've been here, they've been lively and robust, but they have always had a touch of class, a little bit of constraint, sticking basically with the facts and not getting personal.

So we can look forward that maybe, the local races for the most part won't have the vitriol that the state and federal will.

- Not the race perhaps, but I think what we're seeing at these meetings, whether it's school board or commissioners (indistinct), it's ugly, it is very ugly the way they're talking to each other, the way they're talking to their constituents, their personal blogs, their Facebooks, it has gotten to an acceptable level to people where they're willing to overlook that because it's everywhere.

So I agree, the last election we had, I was very pleased that that factor hadn't really, for the most part, trickled down into the election itself, but it certainly is happening in those rooms.

- I've got about three minutes left.

So I'll get to kind of each one of you, get just your final thought.

And go ahead, Tom, (indistinct).

- No, this is right.

I think there's some local anger out there that residents don't feel they're being heard.

And that the commissioners and the people who go and speak to them, they're talking past each other.

And there's issues in Santa Rosa with roads and with flooding, and they don't feel like they're being heard.

I don't think I'd wanna be an incumbent on a ballot this year or in 2022.

- Rick.

- I think next year's the year we're gonna have a conversation about race.

I think that the T.T.

Wentworth has pulled back an onion, and we're realizing that a lot of the problems that we have today in the community, they deal with poverty or have roots in decisions in how things were done in the '20s and '30s.

And we've got an H.K.

Matthews who can tell us what it was like in the '60s and '70s.

And then I think we're going to have to listen.

We don't need white saviors, we need to listen to the black community and hear their story because they've never felt free enough to tell it.

So I think that we have an opportunity.

I think the Whitworth family has opened up the door.

The university is ready, but it's not about apologies.

I think it's really gonna be about listening.

And I think we've got to understand our entire community.

And I think so.

Those are the conversations that I think we have a door to make that happen.

It's gonna be painful, it's not gonna be easy, and a whole lot of trust needs to happen.

- And to that point, we have to stay the course, because we will have people come at us and say, we shouldn't be reporting on this, these aren't the stories we should be telling, there's other sites.

And that is difficult, and we have to stand up.

We know what is right more than ever, the stories that we need to tell, and even if we're getting that vocal minority, we have to continue to tell those stories.

- Right.

Right.

Well, I had a discussion today with someone (indistinct), I don't believe in cancel culture.

I said, "That's not what I'm talking about."

I said, "I'm talking about listening."

We got into conversation about (indistinct) and all this, I'm saying statues and everything.

"No, no, no, no, wait, wait, this is not what we're talking about."

But all these tropes come out into play.

So it is, there's gonna be a challenge.

And I think we as the media are gonna have to kind of drive it, but we're storytellers, so we need to tell.

- Let's go, one final question, because I'm very closer to know, getting very close.

In Inweekly, you do your rising stars, and if we go into 2022, each one of you, give me a rising star in our community or even across the state.

- Well, I have to jump back into the world of sports.

But Austin Reed, UWF quarterback, considered the best in division two, I think maybe he's got one more year with the Argonauts, and then he probably could very well be gone in the NFL draft.

- Rick.

- I'm going through the nominations right now, I'm working through it.

So I think that Teniade Broughton, city councilwoman is a rising star.

She is connecting Pensacola with black history.

I think that she's a rising star.

- Lisa.

- I've gotta go with D.C. Reeves.

Even if he doesn't come out the winner, he certainly is really getting involved in the community.

- [Jeff] You've got about 15 seconds.

- You stole my rising star.

- Ah too late.

(Tom laughing) - Colten Wright has impressed me in his first year on the Santa Rosa Commission.

He replaced a long time commissioner, and he seems to be holding his own.

- Wonderful.

Thank you all so much.

Great to see you.

Great to see all of you.

Great to be back after a (indistinct).

- I have to see (indistinct).

- Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Well, we have been looking back on some of the big stories of 2021, and also looking ahead at what we may see in 2022.

Our guests have been Dave Dunwoody, producer and journalist at 88.1 WUWF radio, Rick Outzen the owner and publisher of Inweekly newspaper and also Rick's Blog, as well as hosting the radio show, Real News with Rick Outzen weekday mornings on WCOA 1370 AM, and the new kid on the block joining us for the first time, Tom Ninestine, the managing editor at WUWF 88.1.

And of course, Lisa Nellesen Savage with the Pensacola News Journal, executive editor.

I left that off the teleprompter.

It's a good thing I can add.

(all laugh) By the way, this program will be available soon online @wsre.org as well as on YouTube.

So please feel free to share.

I'm Jeff Weeks, wishing you all the very best.

Thank you so very much for watching.

Take a wonderful care of yourself and we'll see you again in 2022.

(bright upbeat music)