>> Funding for New Mexico in Focus provided by Viewers Like You.

>> LOU DIVIZIO: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS...

THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN OUR STATE- THREE U-S FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS ADDRESS LAST YEAR'S DEVASTATING FIRE SEASON - AND TALK ABOUT THE AGENCY'S ROLE IN FOREST MANAGEMENT IN A CHANGING CLIMATE.

>> MICHIKO MARTIN : I WON'T SUGAR COAT IT.

WE ARE IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

NEW MEXICO IS IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

THE GOOD NEWS THOUGH IS WE KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

>> LOU: PLUS - MEET THE PRESS - A REINTRODUCTION TO OUR THREE LEAD CORRESPONDENTS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

TONIGHT, WE WRAP UP OUR LOOK BACK AT 2023 AND LOOK AHEAD TO NEXT YEAR.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF TODAY'S SHOW, WE INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR THREE LEAD CORRESPONDENTS -RUSSELL CONTRERAS, ANTONIA GONZALES AND GWYNETH DOLAND - AS THEY TALK A BIT ABOUT THEIR WORK THIS YEAR AND WHAT SORT OF STORIES THEY PLAN TO BRING US IN 2024.

BUT THE MAJORITY OF OUR SHOW THIS WEEK WILL BE DEDICATED TO A CONVERSATION LED BY OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS, WHO SAT DOWN IN SEPTEMBER WITH THREE U-S FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME THE AGENCY HAS MADE ITS LEADERSHIP AVAILABLE SINCE LAST YEAR'S HISTORIC FIRE SEASON.

IN A THREE-PART DISCUSSION TO BETTER UNDERSTAND WHAT WENT WRONG LAST SUMMER - LAURA ASKS FOR AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT LEAD UP TO THE DEVASTATING HERMITS PEAK CALF CANYON FIRE, AND THE CERRO PELADO FIRE THAT CAME RIGHT AFTER.

>> LAURA: THANK YOU, LOU.

JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE FOR THIS THREE-PART CONVERSATION ARE SOUTHWESTERN FORESTER MICHIKO MARTIN, SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST SUPERVISOR SHAUN SANCHEZ, AND DENNIS CARRIL, SANTA FE NATIONAL FOREST FUELS PROGRAM MANAGER.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING ME.

>> MARTIN: THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> LAURA: SO THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO START THIS CONVERSATION, SO LET'S JUST JUMP IN.

MICHIKO, THREE PRESCRIBED FIRE PROJECTS IN NEW MEXICO IN 2022 THAT TURNED INTO THREE WILDFIRES.

LET'S START WITH THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE.

341,000 ACRES.

WHAT WENT WRONG LAST WINTER AND SPRING?

>> MARTIN: LAST YEAR WAS AN ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING YEAR FOR WILDFIRES AND FIRES HERE IN NEW MEXICO, CERTAINLY A YEAR THAT WE WOULD NEVER, EVER WANT TO REPEAT.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT THAT WE HAD THREE PRESCRIBED FIRES THAT ESCAPED UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES, WHICH -- WELL, OF COURSE, HINDSIGHT IS ALWAYS 20/20.

BUT WHEN WE APPLY THAT HINDSIGHT, CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WERE JUST ABSOLUTELY UNPREDICTABLE.

MY COLLEAGUE DENNIS HERE IS AN EXPERT, A LONG-TIME EXPERT IN FIRE AND FIRE BEHAVIOR, ALL THINGS FIRE, AND I'D LOVE TO INVITE HIM, LAURA, IF THAT'S ALL RIGHT, TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON AND CERRO PELADO.

>> LAURA: YES, DENNIS.

>> CARRIL: THANKS LAURA, AND THANKS MICHIKO.

FIRST, I'M GOING TO START OUT BY JUST MY APOLOGIES AND SYMPATHIES TO THE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO FOR EVERYTHING THAT THEY WENT THROUGH WITH THE TRAGEDY OF THESE FIRES.

I NEED TO SAY THAT.

AND I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS.

LIKE MICHIKO SAID, I'VE BEEN A PART OF THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

THE STORY THAT COMES TO MIND, AND I'LL BE BRIEF, IS HOW I STARTED MY CAREER.

I STARTED IN THE EARLY 2000S, IN 2002.

THE PEOPLE THAT WERE BEFORE ME AND KIND OF OVERLAPPING WITH ME, THE LARGEST FIRE THOSE FOLKS SAW WAS LIKE 5,000-10,000 ACRES.

IT WAS A BIG FIRE.

THAT WAS THE SLIDE SHOW THAT THEY HAD OF THEIR EXPERIENCES, THAT THEY HAD IN THEIR MIND.

AND THEN MOVING FORWARD INTO 2000 AND THE DROUGHT.

IT STARTED IN THE LATE NINETIES IN THE WEST, AND IS STILL PERPETUATING INTO NOW.

THE EXPERIENCE THAT THEY HAD, THEY GOT SURPRISED.

THEY WENT THROUGH AN EVOLUTION, THROUGH A PORTAL, A LEARNING LESSON WITH CERRO GRANDE AND THE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED HERE 23 YEARS AGO.

MY CAREER HAS BEEN IN DROUGHT FOR 20 PLUS YEARS.

MY EXPERIENCES AND MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE FIRE BEHAVIOR ARE AS SUCH THAT THAT'S HOW YOU BASE YOUR ACTIONS OF OFF, WHETHER IT'S WILDFIRE, PRESCRIBED FIRE, OR PLANNED.

I FEEL WHAT WE WENT THROUGH THIS LAST YEAR, AND THEN NOT JUST LAST YEAR, BUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW YEARS, THE SLIDE SHOW IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AND WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING OUT THERE UNDER PRESCRIBED FIRE CONDITIONS, UNDER WILDFIRE CONDITIONS, WE'RE GOING THROUGH ANOTHER PORTAL.

WE'RE GOING THROUGH ANOTHER EVOLUTION.

JUST LIKE WE LEARNED FROM CERRO GRANDE AND ALL THE CHANGES THAT CAME WITH THAT, WE'RE VERY SERIOUS ABOUT WHAT CHANGES NEED TO COME MOVING FORWARD IN THE TIMING OF THE WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY AND THE TRAGEDY THAT HAPPENED HERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

CONDITIONS ARE CHANGING.

FIRE IS VERY DYNAMIC.

WE NEED TO LEARN FROM IT.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO LEARN FROM IT.

BUT WE DON'T -- WE NEED TO KEEP BUILDING OUR EXPERIENCE, AND IT'S BEEN VERY DIFFERENT.

LAST YEAR, I SAW FIRE BEHAVIOR I'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN MY CAREER.

>> LAURA: SO I REMEMBER ON APRIL 6TH -- YOU KNOW, LAST SPRING WAS HORRIBLE.

EVEN HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

DRY, WINDY.

AND I REMEMBER ON APRIL 6TH WHEN I GOT THAT PRESS RELEASE FROM THE FOREST SERVICE SAYING THAT LAS DISPENSAS HAD BEEN DECLARED THE HERMIT'S PEAK WILDFIRE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE DAYS AND WHAT THAT FELT LIKE AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING?

>> CARRIL: YES, ABSOLUTELY.

SO IT WAS A VERY INTERESTING SPRING.

WE HAD A LOT OF LATE ROUNDS OF MOISTURE THAT BUILT UP THE SNOWPACK AND BROUGHT IN MOISTURE THROUGH FEBRUARY AND MARCH.

THE DISTRICT WAS LOOKING AT PARTICULAR WINDOWS FOR THIS LAS DISPENSAS AREA, AND WITHIN -- I THINK IT WAS TOWARDS THE MIDDLE OF MARCH AND TOWARDS THE END OF MARCH, WITHIN TWO WEEKS OF APRIL 6TH, THERE WAS MOISTURE THERE AND IT WAS TOO WET TO DO THINGS.

I THINK WHAT REALLY CAUGHT PEOPLE BY SURPRISE, AND IT'S REFLECTED IN SOME OF THE DATA, THE STATS FROM THE WEATHER, IS HOW RAPIDLY THINGS CHANGED AND CAME INTO A HOT, DRY, WINDY PATTERN.

THIS IS APRIL 6TH, YOU MENTIONED.

IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE MONTH.

THEY'RE TRYING TO CATCH THIS PRESCRIBED FIRE WINDOW SOON AFTER THESE MOISTURE EVENTS TO MEET OBJECTIVES AND BE BETWEEN, LIKE WE ARE IN THE SPRING, BETWEEN WINTER AND SUMMER.

AND PRESCRIBE FIRE SEASON AND THEN ENTERING INTO FIRE SEASON, IT'S ALWAYS A CHALLENGING TIME.

THE WEATHER CONDITIONS WE EXPERIENCED, THE DRIEST ON RECORD FOR APRIL AND MAY, AND THE FOURTH HOTTEST IN APRIL AND MAY, IT LEADS TO THAT TRANSITION OF THAT MOISTURE.

WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH IS WEATHER, RIGHT, WEATHER CHANGES DAY- TO-DAY, AND THESE FOLKS HAD A THREE TO FOUR DAY FORECAST.

THAT'S TYPICALLY WHAT WE DEPEND ON FOR A WINDOW, TO GET A TWO, THREE DAY PROJECT DONE.

BUT WHAT COULDN'T BE PREDICTED WAS WHAT WAS COMING, WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW WAS COMING IN THE REST OF APRIL AND THE REST OF MAY, AND HOW RAPIDLY THINGS DETERIORATED WITH THOSE CONDITIONS.

>> LAURA: SO SHAUN, EVERYONE KNOWS THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

I MEAN, EVEN FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHO HAS ONLY BEEN IN NEW MEXICO A FEW DECADES, I FEEL THE FORESTS ARE DIFFERENT.

I SEE HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

THE SCIENCE CERTAINLY IS TELLING US A LOT ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

BUT IN 2022, DO YOU THINK THAT THE AGENCY WAS TAKING CLIMATE CHANGE SERIOUSLY?

>> SANCHEZ: I BELIEVE WHEN WE LOOK BACK, AND GOING BACK TO APRIL 5TH, WE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WE DIDN'T KNOW.

AND THAT WAS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE FINDINGS FROM THE REVIEW THAT OCCURRED, IS THAT WE COULDN'T STAY COMPLACENT OR REST ON OUR LAURELS, THAT WE NEEDED TO REALLY LOOK AT THE CHANGING CLIMATE, AS DENNIS DESCRIBED, AND JUST THE EXTREME WEATHER CONDITIONS, AND HOW THAT IS BEING DRIVEN BY A CHANGING CLIMATE.

AND SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING DIFFERENT NOW IN OUR PLANNING, IS MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE HAVING THE MOST RECENT SCIENCE, THE MOST UP- TO-DATE MODELING, THAT WE'RE REALLY PUTTING EVERY TYPE OF PROTECTIVE SERVICE INTO PLACE AND HAVING THAT FOR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.

BECAUSE YOU'RE RIGHT, OUR FORESTS ARE IN CRISIS.

ONE HUNDRED YEARS OF FIRE SUPPRESSION, AND THEN YOU ADD ON TOP OF THAT THESE EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS THAT ARE MAKING IT HOTTER, DRIER, IT'S THIS RECIPE FOR DISASTER.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S WHAT WE SAW LAST YEAR.

>> LAURA: YEAH.

SO THE CERRO PELADO FIRE IN THE JEMEZ ALSO IGNITED IN THE SPRING OF 2022, AND THE INVESTIGATION THAT WAS JUST RELEASED IN JULY SHOWED THAT WILDFIRE ALSO GREW FROM A PRESCRIBED BURN, A PILE BURN, THAT HAD BEEN DONE IN THE WINTER OF 2022.

WHAT WENT WRONG THERE?

>> SANCHEZ: I THINK THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF NOT REALIZING, AS DENNIS DESCRIBED, THE EXTREMELY CHANGING CONDITIONS.

AGAIN, GOING BACK TO LIKE APRIL 5TH, YOU KNOW, BEFORE THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT THAT ONE OF OUR PRESCRIBED PILE BURNS THAT WE HAD COMPLETED IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY, THAT IT WOULD POP UP IN APRIL.

>> MARTIN: AFTER MANY SNOW EVENTS.

>> SANCHEZ: AFTER NUMEROUS SNOW EVENTS ON TOP OF IT, IT WOULDN'T POP UP.

BUT IT POPPED UP BECAUSE OF THESE EXTREME CLIMATE CONDITIONS.

YOU KNOW, GETTING TO THE WINDS, LIKE EVERYBODY KNOWS HOW WINDY IT WAS.

I REMEMBER SITTING IN ON THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON BRIEFINGS THAT WERE GOING ON, AND THE INCIDENT METEOROLOGISTS AND THE FIRE BEHAVIOR ANALYSTS ARE SAYING, THERE WILL BE TEXTBOOKS AND HISTORY BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT THESE DAYS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS UNIMAGINABLE.

WE COULD HAVE NEVER IMAGINED.

ADDING TO THE HOTTEST, DRIEST APRIL- MAY, IT WAS ALSO -- YOU KNOW, WE HAD RECORD RED FLAG WARNINGS AND RED FLAG CONDITIONS OVER THE SAME TIME PERIOD.

AND THESE MEASURES, AND THEN SEEING KIND OF THE EXTREME GOING FROM, LIKE DENNIS SAID, IN MARCH OF HAVING SNOW, AND THEN EXTREME DRYING, AND WE WENT TO AN EXTREMELY WET PERIOD.

THAT TRANSITION FROM THAT EXTREME DRY TO THAT EXTREME WET PERIOD, THAT'S THE MOST EXTREME TRANSITION FOR PARTS OF NEW MEXICO THAT THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IN 130 YEARS, SINCE THESE RECORDS HAVE BEEN GATHERED AND MONITORED.

THE WORLD IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT TODAY THAN WHAT WE THOUGHT IT WAS ON APRIL 5TH.

>> LAURA: MICHIKO, WHY DID THESE INVESTIGATIONS TAKE SO LONG?

LIKE WITH CERRO PELADO, IT WAS ALMOST A YEAR AND A HALF LATER THAT WE FOUND OUT, THE PUBLIC FOUND OUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED.

>> MARTIN: OH, WOW.

WHY DO THEY TAKE SO LONG?

WELL, I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT WE'RE VERY, VERY THOROUGH, AND WE TRY TO TAKE AS LEAST AMOUNT OF TIME AS POSSIBLE.

ONE OF THE LEARNINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THE PRESCRIBED FIRE PAUSE WAS THAT WE NEED TO BE MORE CONSISTENT IN THE WAY THAT WE INVESTIGATE ORIGIN AND CAUSES OF FIRE, AS WELL AS ESCAPE FIRES.

AND SO WE GO THROUGH A VERY LONG DETAILED PROCESS JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING EVERYTHING RIGHT, BECAUSE WE UNDERSTAND THE LOSS, YOU KNOW, THE PAIN, THE TRAUMA, AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE PRESENT OUR FINDINGS TO THE PUBLIC, THAT THEY CAN TRUST THOSE FINDINGS, BECAUSE IT'S ONE STEP THAT WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD TO TRY TO REGAIN THAT TRUST, IS BY DOING THE INVESTIGATION VERY THOROUGHLY AND PUTTING OUT INFORMATION THAT THE PUBLIC CAN TRUST, AND THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO COME BACK THREE WEEKS LATER AND SAY, OH, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY WE UNCOVERED ANOTHER, WE OVERTURNED ANOTHER ROCK AND FOUND SOME NEW INFORMATION.

SO I DO APOLOGIZE, BECAUSE I KNOW THAT WHEN WE HAVE A DEVASTATING EVENT LIKE THIS, THE PUBLIC WANTS ANSWERS AND THEY WANT THEM FAST, AND WE CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND WE ALSO TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY OUR DUTY TO ENSURE THAT THE INFORMATION THAT WE PUT OUT CAN BE TRUSTED AND THAT WE CAN MAKE GOOD DECISIONS FROM THEM.

>> LAURA: SO THE BLACK FIRE IN THE GILA, 325,000 ACRES LAST YEAR, WAS ALSO HUMAN CAUSED.

WHAT DO WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

DO WE KNOW ANYTHING?

>> MARTIN: OH, GOSH.

HELP ME OUT SHAUN AND DENNIS.

>> CARRIL: I WAS ON THE BLACK FIRE WITH ONE OF THE INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAMS, AND I'LL TELL YOU A QUICK COOL -- AND IT MAY NOT BE COOL, AND AN INTERESTING ANECDOTAL STORY.

I STARTED ON THE WILDERNESS RANGER DISTRICT WHERE THAT FIRE WAS IN 2002.

THE FIRST WILDFIRE I HAD EVER BEEN ON IN MY CAREER WAS CALLED THE BLACK FIRE.

WE CAUGHT IT AT 42 ACRES OR SOMETHING.

THE REST OF THE NEXT TWO SUMMERS, I WAS OUT THERE DOING INITIAL ATTACK IN THESE MOUNTAINS, AND COME THERE 20 YEARS LATER, I'M IN MY DISTRICT, MY OLD BOSS IS STILL THERE, AND WE'RE ON THE BLACK FIRE AGAIN THAT'S NEAR THE STATE RECORD IN SIZE.

AND ALL THOSE FIRES THAT WE HANDLED AND SUPPRESSED JUST HAVE BEEN BURNT OVER, PROBABLY MAYBE A COUPLE OF TIMES.

IT'S AN INTERESTING PERSPECTIVE FOR ME 20 YEARS LATER ABOUT WHAT I WAS DOING IN THE FIRST PART OF MY CAREER, VERY EXCITING AND ALL THIS STUFF, BUT NOW AS I GET OLDER AND I SEE THIS, IT'S LIKE, TO ALL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THROUGH CHANGE WITH CONDITIONS, CLIMATE AND WEATHER IN THE EXTREMES, THAT'S WHAT STRUCK ME.

AND THEN DEALING WITH THIS VERY LARGE FIRE WITH AN INCIDENT MANAGEMENT TEAM OVER THAT KIND OF GROUND IS VERY CHALLENGING.

I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE IGNITION, BUT HAVING BEEN THERE PREVIOUSLY AND THEN LAST SUMMER ON IT, IT WAS A BEAST.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TERRAIN AND VERY CHALLENGING TO DEAL WITH, JUST LIKE HERMIT'S AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

TWO DIFFERENT IGNITION SOURCES, SAME RESULTS IN A BIG WAY.

>> LAURA: WELL, THANK YOU ALL.

WE NEED TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK.

UP NEXT, WE'LL TALK ABOUT NEW PROTOCOLS FOR PRESCRIBED FIRE.

>> RUSSELL: WHEN WE GET A GUEST IN THE STUDIO, WE ASK THEM, JUST GIVE ME 10 MINUTES.

I WANTED YOU TO ABLE TO LISTEN TO HOW WE DIVE INTO THIS PERSON'S LIFE.

WE TRY OUR BEST HERE TO GET THE GUEST TO GO BEYOND TALKING POINTS.

A LOT OF POLITICIANS WILL COME IN HERE.

THEY'RE VERY COACHED BY POLITICAL CONSULTANTS AND THEIR WHOLE GOAL IS NOT TO GET IN TROUBLE.

WE WANT TO HELP GET THEM, PUSH THEM ASIDE AND TELL US SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

>> LAURA: DURING THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON FIRE, THE FOREST SERVICE CHIEF RANDY MOORE SHUT DOWN PRESCRIBED FIRE PROJECTS, CALLED FOR A REVIEW, AND ISSUED A NEW PROTOCOL FOR PRESCRIBED FIRE NATIONALLY.

DENNIS, WHAT HAS CHANGED SINCE 2022 ON THE GROUND IN NEW MEXICO?

>> CARRIL: THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, LAURA.

JUST LIKE I HAD MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS SEGMENT ABOUT THE EVOLUTION OF CHANGE THAT CAME POST CERRO GRANDE, WE'RE GOING THROUGH SOMETHING SIMILAR, AND THIS PAUSE I THINK WAS IMPORTANT TO KIND OF COLLECT OUR THOUGHTS AND PUT DOWN ON PAPER WHAT SOME OF THESE THINGS WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT ARE.

WITHOUT GOING INTO EXTRAORDINARY DETAIL, THE THINGS THAT I'M TAKING AWAY IS WANTING A LOT MORE ENGAGEMENT FROM AGENCY ADMINISTRATORS AND LINE OFFICERS.

BEING MORE ENGAGED AND KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE PROJECTS, BEING ABLE TO SPEAK TO THEM, ASK QUESTIONS, DOCUMENT THOSE QUESTIONS THROUGH THE GO/NO GO PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE.

WE USED TO TALK ABOUT DROUGHT, BUT NOW WE'RE GOING TO FORMALLY TALK ABOUT DROUGHT AND FORMALLY DOCUMENT THAT CONVERSATION.

AND AS SHAUN SAID PREVIOUSLY, AS WELL, HAVING MANY MINDS AT THE TABLE TO HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION AND SO WE'RE KEEPING EACH OTHER IN CHECK.

MORE CHECKS AND BALANCES TO HOW WE MOVE FORWARD WITH AUTHORIZATION.

NOW WHEN WE'RE MOVING THROUGH PRESCRIBED FIRE, SOME OTHER THINGS ARE ACKNOWLEDGING.

MORE RESOURCES THAT WILL NEED TO BE ON SCENE, WITH OUR CONTINGENCY RESOURCES BEING CLOSER.

NOT ON SCENE, BUT CLOSER, WITHIN 30 MINUTES RESPONSE TIME.

AND THEN ALSO THAT KIND OF BACK END OF THE PRESCRIBED FIRE, AS FAR AS THE PATROL PLAN, CRITICAL WEATHER, STEP-UP PLANS AND THINGS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOUR MONTH HOLD OVERS FROM PILE BURNS, THAT WE KNOW WE'VE GOT TO STICK WITH THIS A LOT MORE INTENSELY USING NEW TECHNOLOGY WITH INFRARED SYSTEMS AND THINGS SO WE CAN START CHECKING THINGS AS WE'RE MOVING INTO PRESCRIBED FIRE SEASON.

>> LAURA: MICHIKO, GO AHEAD.

>> MARTIN: THANK YOU.

I WAS JUST THINKING THAT, DENNIS, YOU'RE JUST REALLY HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE ADDITIONAL WAYS THAT THE FOREST SERVICE HAS CHANGED, TO THE QUESTION THAT YOU WERE ASKING EARLIER LAURA.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT'S KIND OF EMBEDDED IN WHAT YOU JUST SAID WAS THAT THE FOREST SERVICE IS REALLY RECOGNIZING THE COMPLEXITY OF PRESCRIBED FIRE.

AND YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER AS A LITTLE GIRL THAT I WOULD BE OUT IN THE BACKYARD WITH MY FATHER AND WE WOULD DO PILE BURNINGS, AND YOU WOULDN'T THINK THAT THIS IS SOMETHING SO COMPLEX.

BUT AS SHAUN AND DENNIS WERE EARLIER TALKING ABOUT, HOW WE'RE FINDING WITH THE MEGA- DROUGHT THE RESIDUAL HEAT THAT JUST STAYS IN THE GROUND AND REIGNITES MONTHS AFTER, THAT'S COMPLEX, AND A COMPLEXITY THAT WE HAD NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF ANOTHER KIND OF LEARNING AND WAY THAT THE FOREST SERVICE HAS CHANGED.

IT'S REALLY JUST UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALWAYS KNEW THAT WE HAD AN INHERENTLY DANGEROUS JOB, AND NOW WE ARE JUST RECOGNIZING EVEN MORE SO THE COMPLEXITY THAT'S EMBEDDED IN IT BECAUSE OF THE CHANGING CLIMATE AND BECAUSE OF THE MEGA- DROUGHT.

>> SANCHEZ: AND I WAS GOING TO SAY, TO ADD TO WHAT DENNIS SAID, THOSE SPECIFICS, THE OTHER PART THAT WE'RE DOING IS ENGAGING WITH THE PUBLIC, IS MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE AT THE TABLE, AS WELL.

AND THEN THAT COMES IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT FORMS.

WE'RE GOING OUT AND HAVING FIELD TRIPS.

IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO ACTUALLY GO AND WALK A UNIT WITH US, WITH OUR FUEL SPECIALIST, WITH OUR BURN BOSSES, WE'RE DOING THAT.

LAST WEEK, WE HAD A TOWN HALL MEETING IN SANTA FE RIGHT AT THE AZTEC SPRINGS COMMUNITY.

WE'RE PLANNING TO DO A PRESCRIBED BURN DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO THAT COMMUNITY.

WE WANT TO HAVE ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE NEIGHBORS, WITH THOSE LANDOWNERS THAT ARE LIKELY MOST DIRECTLY EFFECTED.

WE'RE WANTING TO MEET PEOPLE WHERE THEY'RE AT AND THE WAY THEY'RE WANTING TO DO THAT.

HAVING TOWN HALLS, HAVING ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS, MAKING SURE THAT ALL OF OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AT THE COUNTY LEVEL, STATE LEVEL, AND NATIONAL LEVEL ARE UNDERSTANDING.

WE HAD A TOWN HALL TWO DAYS AGO IN REGINA THAT A LOT OF THE FEEDBACK WE GOT EVEN FROM SOME OF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, LIKE THEIR STAFF MEMBERS, WAS, WOW, WE DIDN'T REALIZE ALL OF THE PREP WORK AND THE THOUGHT AND THE PREPARATION THAT GOES INTO CONDUCTING A PRESCRIBED BURN.

SO WANTING TO ENGAGE WITH THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE SERVE IN A VERY MEANINGFUL WAY, TO HEAR THEIR CONCERNS, TO MAKE SURE THAT, YOU KNOW WHAT, IS THERE A BLIND SPOT THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW BECAUSE THEY LIVE RIGHT THERE, THAT WE'RE LISTENING TO THEM AND ENGAGING IN THAT AND ADJUSTING COURSE.

>> LAURA: SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT, BECAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT SOME OF THE OLD PRESCRIBED FIRE PLANS, THEY'RE LONG.

THERE'S LIKE A LOT OF PLANNING THAT GOES INTO THEM.

THEY'RE COMPLEX.

DOES THE FOREST SERVICE EMPOWER PEOPLE ON THE GROUND TO PUSH BACK IF CONDITIONS AREN'T RIGHT, OR IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG?

>> CARRIL: ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S NOT A -- THIS TALK OF PRESSURE THAT'S OUT THERE, I THINK IT'S CONVOLUTED IN SOME WAYS SOMETIMES.

WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE'RE UP AGAINST WITH EVERYTHING, BUT NEVER IN MY EXPERIENCE HAS THERE BEEN PRESSURE TO LIGHT A MATCH.

THE PRESSURE WE DO PUT ON EACH OTHER IS TO GET SOMETHING READY, AND THAT'S A MESSAGE THAT WE'VE SENT THROUGH OUR RANKS FROM THE ARCHAEOLOGIST OR BIOLOGIST TO THE BURN BOSS OR THE AGENCY ADMINISTRATOR, YOU NEED TO HAVE THE PROJECT READY.

GET THE COMPLIANCE WORK DONE, GET THE PREPARATION WORK DONE SO THAT YOU HAVE THE ADVANTAGE TO BE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A WINDOW WHEN IT COMES.

BUT NEVER PRESSURE TO SAY, IT'S TIME TO LIGHT THIS THIS SPRING.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO.

>> MARTIN: DENNIS, WOULDN'T YOU SAY THAT'S ONE OF THE CHANGES, TOO, THAT WE'VE EXPERIENCED, THAT NOW BEFORE YOU DO A PRESCRIBED BURN THAT'S A MULTI-DAY, EVERY SINGLE DAY FOLKS ARE EMPOWERED.

>> CARRIL: EMPOWERED, AND THEN WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE HAVING DISCUSSION NOT JUST WITH THE AGENCY ADMINISTRATOR, BUT THE FIRING AND HOLDING BOSSES, AND MAKING SURE AND DOCUMENTING THAT THIS PLAN THAT WE'RE ABOUT TO EMBARK ON IS BOUGHT IN BY EVERYBODY WHO'S INVOLVED.

I THINK THESE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE KEEP TOUCHING ON, AND THE MORE FORMAL AND DOCUMENTED CONVERSATIONS AND HAVING THE MINDS AT THE TABLE, ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

ONE COMMENT I DO WANT TO BRING UP, TOO, IS THE TIMING OF THIS TRAGEDY IS INTERESTING WITH THE WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY, IN THAT ONE THING THAT I SEE THE AGENCY DOING, IT WOULD HAVE PROBABLY STILL WENT ON WITHOUT THIS, BUT WE'RE STARTING TO THINK ABOUT AND TREAT PRESCRIBED FIRE AS THE SAME CRISIS AS WE SEE WILDFIRES UNFOLDING.

AND I SEE THE LEVEL OF SUPPORT STARTING TO COME FROM THE AGENCY AND THE COORDINATION FOR RESOURCES, FUNDING, ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

IT'S COMING TOGETHER COINCIDENTLY WITH THE TIMING OF THIS STRATEGY.

BUT TO REALLY GIVE THE PLAN PRESCRIBED FIRE WORK WHERE IT'S IN OUR COURT TO PICK THE TIME AND PLACE AND CONDITIONS.

WE'RE STARTING TO GET THE ATTENTION WE NEED TO FOCUS MORE ON IT THE WAY WE NEED TO.

>> LAURA: THE FOREST SERVICE IS NOT UNIQUE THIS WAY, BUT I'VE BEEN COVERING ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES FOR LIKE MORE THAN 20 YEARS, AND I SEE HOW SLOW AGENCIES LIKE THE FOREST SERVICE ARE TO CHANGE.

AND FROM AN OUTSIDER'S PERSPECTIVE, IT'S EASY FOR ME TO SAY, HOLY SMOKES, CONDITIONS AND LIFE BASICALLY ON THIS PLANET HAS CHANGED FASTER THAN SOME OF OUR AGENCIES HAVE.

DOES THE FOREST SERVICE HAVE THE CAPACITY AND THE POLITICAL WILL TO REALLY MAKE THESE CHANGES TO KEEP UP WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE FORESTS?

>> SANCHEZ: ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK LIKE DENNIS SAID, WE HAVE A VERY CLEAR PRIORITY ACROSS THE AGENCY TO FOCUS AND ADDRESS THE WILDFIRE CRISIS, THE HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS, AND FRANKLY, THE HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS GETS TO THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF OUR PUBLIC, RIGHT.

SO IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM A PRIORITY STANDPOINT OF THE AGENCY THAT CONGRESS HAS COME THROUGH AND APPROPRIATED.

I THINK THERE'S ABOUT $7 BILLION THAT HAS BEEN APPROPRIATED TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS HEAD ON.

AND I'M NEW TO THE FOREST SERVICE.

SEVEN MONTHS HERE.

BUT WHAT I'VE SEEN -- AND SO MY TENURE HAS BEEN ALL CHANGE.

BUT I SEE A HUGE DESIRE.

THIS IS, LIKE DENNIS AND I WERE TALKING THIS MORNING, THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN HOPING FOR MY ENTIRE CAREER, WAS TO SEE THIS STRAIGHT FOCUS ON THIS PRIORITY, THE HEALTH OF OUR FORESTS, THE SAFETY OF OUR PUBLIC, AND THE RESOURCES TO GET IT DONE.

AND SO I CAN TELL YOU OUR TEAM HERE ON THE SANTA FE IS VERY EXCITED AND EMBRACING ALL OF THE CHANGE, AND RECOGNIZING THAT WE'RE IN THIS EVER CHANGING ENVIRONMENT.

AND SO WE CAN'T SIT BACK, WE HAVE TO BE CONTINUALLY LEARNING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND MAKING THOSE EFFORTS.

AND TREATING OUR FORESTS THE WAY WE NEED TO TO ADDRESS THIS CRISIS.

>> CARRIL: REACTIVE VERSUS PROACTIVE.

WE ACKNOWLEDGE, AND WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED ON IT YET, BUT FIRE IS AN INEVITABLE PART OF OUR LANDSCAPE AND ECOSYSTEMS.

IT IS.

WHAT WE DEAL WITH ON THE SUPPRESSION SIDE AND IN THE WORST POSSIBLE CONDITIONS WHEN SOMETHING STARTS IN AN UNWANTED TIME AND PLACE IS REACTIVE.

AND WE STILL ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO THAT, WILL HAVE TO DO THAT AND GIVE IT ATTENTION.

BUT THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS ON SOME OF THOSE EVENTS AND THE WAY THEY'RE UNFOLDING, WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE VALUES IN INFRASTRUCTURES ENDANGERED OR LOST OR THREATENED -- OR MORE LOST, I GUESS.

BUT JUST THINKING ABOUT THIS ON THE PROACTIVE SIDE, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GOING FOR, AND LIKE I DO.

THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY, THIS WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY.

WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH BUILDING TRUST AND BEING TRANSPARENT AND ENGAGING OUR PUBLIC, AND IT'S A GOOD THING.

IT'S FORCING US THAT DIRECTION, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE.

BUT TO BE ON THE PROACTIVE SIDE AND HAVING THE CHOICE, KNOWING FIRE IS PART OF THE SYSTEM, TO BE ABLE TO PICK THE TIME AND THE PLACE AND THE CONDITIONS AND THE RIGHT RESOURCES, WITH ALL THESE CHANGES THAT WE'RE GOING TO START INCORPORATING AND LEARN FROM FROM LAST YEAR, OUR ODDS ARE WAY BETTER.

WE TALK ABOUT 99.8, WHATEVER, POINT OF SUCCESS, AND IT'S NOT GETTING HUNG UP ON SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED LAST YEAR.

WE HAVE TO GET HUNG UP ON THAT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MINIMIZE THE CHANCE OF THAT EVER HAPPENING AGAIN.

WE CAN'T PROMISE THAT IT WON'T EVER HAPPEN AGAIN, THAT A FIRE WON'T ESCAPE, BUT THE ODDS IN DEFENDING OUR VALUES AT RISK, OUR COMMUNITIES, OUR ECOSYSTEMS, OUR WATERSHED, OUR TRIBAL LANDS, EVERYTHING, WE HAVE A MUCH BETTER CHANCE IF WE CAN PICK THE TIME AND PLACE TO REINTRODUCE FIRE VERSUS BEING AT THE MERCY.

IF CONDITIONS KEEP CHANGING AND GETTING MORE EXTREME, WE'RE NOT HAVING GREAT SUCCESS IN THESE SUPPRESSION EVENTS.

>> LAURA: SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT.

THERE WERE PEOPLE EVEN BEFORE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON WHO WERE GOING TO OPPOSE PRESCRIBED FIRE PROJECTS.

LOOKING AT A PLACE LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SANTA FE WATERSHED, OR ANY NUMBER OF PACKED FORESTS IN NEW MEXICO, IF YOU COULDN'T USE PRESCRIBED FIRE, WHAT OTHER TOOLS ARE THERE?

>> CARRIL: SO THE INITIATION OF THAT PROJECT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, BUT THE PERSON WHO WAS GREATLY INVOLVED WITH IT WAS MY MENTOR, AND I SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THERE WITH HIM, THE DISTRICT, AND ALL THE TREATMENTS THAT WENT ON TO BRING IT TO THE CONDITION IT'S IN NOW.

A LOT OF DISCUSSION WAS HAD ABOUT REMOVAL AND MECHANICAL WORK AND THIS TYPE OF THING.

IN ALL THAT I'VE LEARNED IN MY CAREER, WHAT YOU FIND IS THAT WATERSHED, THERE'S ONE ROAD IN THE BOTTOM, AND YOU'RE TALKING A 1200-FOOT CLIMB AT 80 PERCENT, 60 PERCENT SLOPE, UP TO THE RIDGELINE.

THERE'S NO ACCESS.

THE TINY ROAD THAT GOES UP THERE, THE CANYON ROAD, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAUL LOG TRUCKS DOWN THERE.

SO MECHANICAL REMOVAL IS NOT REALLY A FEASIBLE OPTION THERE.

BUT AS I'VE LEARNED OVER 20 YEARS, AND NOT JUST THE WATERSHED, BUT EVERYWHERE, IT'S JUST NOT ABOUT REMOVAL AND CUTTING.

YOU CREATE ACTIVITY FUEL WHEN YOU CUT, SOMETHING THAT'S MAYBE MORE VOLATILE FOR BURNING AFTER YOU MANIPULATE IT.

AND THEN WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE ECOLOGY AND WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE FIRE ECOLOGY OF OUR MOUNTAINS AND WHAT ROLE IT PLAYED.

AND WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF LANDSCAPES THAT WERE CONSIDERED FREQUENT FIRE FORESTS, WHERE FIRE WAS THE RECYCLER FOR THIS DEAD WOOD ACCUMULATION.

IT PRUNED THE LIVE TREES, IT KEPT THE LIVE TREE DENSITIES IN CHECK, AND IT PROMOTED MORE OPEN STANDS.

WE CAN'T REPLACE THAT WITH MECHANICAL WORK ALONE.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE LEARNED THROUGH MY CAREER, AND I THINK THE AGENCY IS ON BOARD WITH THAT AND UNDERSTANDING.

ALL TOOLS ARE ON THE TABLE WHEN IT COMES TO IMPLEMENTING THESE TREATMENTS, BUT WE WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL WITH THE WILDFIRE CRISIS STRATEGY IN DEFENSE OF OUR VALUES AT RISK AND THE THINGS THAT WE CARE ABOUT WITHOUT FIRE AS PART OF THE PLAN.

>> LOU: BEFORE WE HEAD BACK TO LAURA AT THE TABLE TALKING WITH THE U-S FOREST SERVICE ABOUT THE FUTRE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO, I WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO LET YOU KNOW ABOUT THE OUR LAND YOUTUBE PAGE.

THAT'S THE PLACE WHERE YOU CAN FIND ALL OF LAURA'S WORK OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, COVERING ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES RANGING FROM WATER RIGHTS TO AIR POLLUTION.

AND OF COURSE, YOU CAN WATCH HER BEAUTIFUL, THOUGHTFUL ASSESSMENTS OF SOME OF OUR MOST VALUED ECOSYSTEMS, LIKE THE RIO GRANDE BOSQUE IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND THE GILA RIVER.

IT'S ALL ON THE OUR LAND YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, I'LL THROW IT BACK TO LAURA AS SHE ASKS FOREST SERVICE OFFICIALS HOW THE AGENCY IS WORKING TO REBUILD PUBLIC TRUST AS IT ADAPTS ITS FIRE AND FOREST MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES IN THE SOUTHWEST'S WARMING CLIMATE.

>> LAURA: I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN SOME TENSION BETWEEN THE FOREST SERVICE AND COMMUNITIES, PARTICULARLY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

SHAUN, YOU ARE FROM LAS VEGAS, BUT FAIRLY NEW TO THE JOB AS FOREST SUPERVISOR ON THE SANTA FE.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN YOUR ROLE TO BE BUILDING TRUST?

>> SANCHEZ: MY MOST IMPORTANT THING, AND IT'S THE PRIORITY FOR ME AND FOR OUR TEAM ON THE SANTA FE, IS TO FOCUS ON TRUST.

AND WHAT I'VE SHARED WITH THE TEAM IS TWO THINGS, THAT IF WE FOCUS ON THESE TWO APPROACHES, THAT WE WILL BE BUILDING TRUST.

AND ONE IS TO KNOW AND RELATE TO OUR COMMUNITY, AND THE OTHER IS TO BE A COMMUNITY ASSET.

KNOWING AND RELATING TO THE COMMUNITY, ONE, IS TO BE A PART OF THE COMMUNITY, AND MANY OF OUR TEAM LIVE IN THE COMMUNITIES.

AND MANY OF OUR TEAM MEMBERS HAVE VERY DEEP ROOTS IN THE COMMUNITIES, AS WELL.

MANY, MANY GENERATIONS.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, BEING A PART OF THE COMMUNITY, MEETING WITH PEOPLE ONE-ON-ONE AND ENGAGING.

ONE THING THAT I'VE HEARD A BIT OF FEEDBACK IS MAKING SURE THAT OUR FOLKS ARE LIVING IN THE COMMUNITIES THAT THEY SERVE, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO JUST BE SEEN IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR AT THE END OF THE WORKDAY OR ON A FRIDAY.

REALLY LIVE THERE, EXPERIENCE THE STRUGGLES.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, EXPERIENCE THE SUCCESSES.

GET OUT AND MEET ONE-ON- ONE.

SO THAT'S BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT FOR ME.

I'VE GONE OUT AND DONE TOURS OF THE HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON BURN SCAR WITH LOCALS, AND DAVID MARTINEZ, I THINK HE WAS -- PROPUBLICA DID A STORY ABOUT HIM AND HIS PLIGHT IN NOT FINDING A HOUSE.

I'VE GONE AND SAT IN HIS TRAILER WITH HIM IN MONTE APLANADO AND JUST WANTED TO HEAR HIS STORY AND SEE HOW WE COULD HELP.

NOW, THE FOREST SERVICE, WE COULDN'T BUILD HIM A HOUSE, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HELPED FIX THE ROAD TO MONTE APLANADO.

THAT'S ACCESS TO THE FOREST, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE COULD DO.

AND SO THAT'S LIKE AN EXAMPLE OF BEING THAT ASSET, IS KNOWING AND RELATING AND UNDERSTANDING OUR COMMUNITIES.

UNDERSTANDING HERE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE EXTREMELY DEEP TIES AND CONNECTIONS TO THE LAND, WHETHER IT'S OUR TRIBAL COMMUNITIES, OR HISTORIC LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES.

AND UNDERSTANDING AND RECOGNIZING JUST HOW IMPORTANT THE LAND IS.

ONE OF MY FRIENDS, MAX TRUJILLO, COUNTY COMMISSIONER IN SAN MIGUEL COUNTY, SAID THAT WE ARE A PEOPLE OF THE LAND, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT GREAT CONNECTION WITH THE LAND AND ALL THAT THE LAND HAS PROVIDED OUR TRIBAL PARTNERS FOR TIME IN MEMORIAL, AND THE LAND GRANT COMMUNITIES FOR CENTURIES.

YOU KNOW, PROVIDING FIREWOOD, HERB GATHERING, PINON PICKING, GRAZING, HUNTING, FISHING.

YOU NAME IT, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LIVING ON THE LAND TOGETHER AS ONE.

AND AS THE FOREST SERVICE, WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP FACILITATE THAT.

HOW DOES THAT ASSET COME IN.

AND SO WHEN WE SAY WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, WE NEED TO FOLLOW UP AND DO IT, AND BE VERY TRANSPARENT.

THAT AGAIN COMES BACK TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE ONE-ON-ONE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE TOWN HALL TYPE CONVERSATIONS, WHETHER THEY'RE FIELD TRIPS IN OUR UNITS, MAYBE THAT'S GOING AND WALKING A FENCE LINE WITH THE LAND OWNER AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT MIGHT BE GOING ON THERE, AND THEN TAKING THAT INFORMATION AND TRANSLATING AND SAYING, OKAY, WHAT CAN WE DO TO HELP FACILITATE FIREWOOD.

FIREWOOD IS AN INCREDIBLE NECESSARY RESOURCE FOR THE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

THAT'S HOW MOST PEOPLE HEAT THEIR HOMES.

SO WE'RE CONVERTING A LOT OF THE HAZARD TREES RIGHT NOW ON THE BURN SCAR, TAKING THEM AND GETTING THEM -- MAKING IT ALL AVAILABLE.

FREE WOOD PERMITS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME OUT INTO THE FOREST.

BUT WE'RE ALSO WORKING WITH MORA COUNTY AND THE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS PROGRAM TO GET WOOD HAULED TO COMMUNITIES.

WE HAULED A BUNCH OF WOOD LAST YEAR FROM THE FIRE TO THE COMMUNITY THERE IN PECOS.

WE'RE LOOKING TO HAUL MORE WOOD TO MORA THIS YEAR.

AND ALSO WITH THE NEIGHBORS HELPING NEIGHBORS, GETTING WOOD TO THOSE PROCESSORS THAT THEN THEY'RE ABLE TO GET TO THOSE ELDERLY FOLKS AND FOLKS THAT MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GO GET WOOD ON THEIR OWN.

AND SO I THINK FROM A COMBINATION OF KNOWING AND RELATING AND UNDERSTANDING THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY, AND THEN PUTTING IT INTO ACTION, AND THE FOREST SERVICE REALLY BEING A HELPER AND THAT ASSET, I THINK IS A RECIPE FOR BUILDING THAT TRUST WITH THESE COMMUNITIES.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIX OUR WILDFIRE CRISIS WITHOUT THE SUPPORT AND HELP OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> LAURA: RIGHT.

SO I FEEL LIKE THIS MAYBE ISN'T SOMETHING THAT FEDERAL OFFICIALS TYPICALLY TALK ABOUT, AND CERTAINLY FEMA IS THE AGENCY THAT'S WORKING ON REBUILDING AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE FOREST SERVICE IS DOING IN TERMS OF RECONCILIATION AND HEALING THAT'S COMING OUT OF THESE.

>> MARTIN: LAURA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION.

AND I THINK IT REALLY GOES TO WHAT SHAUN WAS SHARING JUST A MOMENT AGO, THAT PART OF RECONCILIATION AND PART OF HEALING IS RECOGNIZING OUR PART THAT LED INTO THE DEVASTATING FIRE, AND SHARING AND BEING A PART OF THE SOLUTION, RIGHT.

BEING A PART OF WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY TO HELP REBUILD LIVES AND LIVELIHOODS POST FIRE.

YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T TAKE AWAY THE PAIN AND THE LOSS, BUT I THINK THAT WHAT WE CAN DO IS PROMISE TO THE COMMUNITY THAT WE WILL BE THERE AND WALK WITH THEM INTO A FUTURE OF REPAIR, RESTORATION, AND REHABILITATION.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DO.

AND WE ARE, ALONG WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS, TRYING TO DO THE MOST THAT WE CAN TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE HELPING FOLKS BECOME WHOLE, THAT THEY ARE RECOVERING WHAT THEY'VE LOST TO THE BEST EXTENT THAT WE CAN.

I KNOW IT'S NOT PERFECT, AND IT'S BEEN A LONG, LONG ROAD, BUT AS SHAUN SAID, WE'RE REALLY JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE CAN DO TO HELP PEOPLE AND THEN DELIVERING ON THAT.

>> LAURA: AND DENNIS, I KNOW THESE ISSUES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT TO YOU, AND WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THEM OVER THE YEARS, BUT WHY SHOULD ANYONE TRUST THE FOREST SERVICE WHEN IT COMES TO PRESCRIBED FIRES?

>> CARRIL: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

EVERYBODY SAID WE'VE GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO, THERE'S NO QUESTION, BUT WHY SHOULD THEY?

I KIND OF TOUCHED ON IT, I THINK, EARLIER IN THAT FIRE IS A PART OF OUR SYSTEM.

IT'S A PART OF OUR BACK YARD.

IT'S JUST LIKE HUNTING AND FISHING AND ALL THE WOOD GATHERING AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

FIRE IS A PART OF THIS, TOO.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WITHOUT IT.

SHAUN TOUCHED ON SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT, IT'S A SOCIETAL PROBLEM, IT'S NOT JUST A FOREST SERVICE PROBLEM, BUT WE'RE THE STEWARDS.

WE'RE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE.

I WOULD SAY, WHY SHOULD WE BE TRUSTED?

BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVES AREN'T VERY GOOD.

IF WE THINK A FIRE IS INEVITABLE, THEN HAVING IT PLAY OUT UNDER ITS OWN CIRCUMSTANCES ISN'T A GOOD OPTION I DON'T THINK.

IT'S NOT JUST HERE IN NEW MEXICO, BUT WE SEE IT ACROSS THE WEST.

THERE'S PLACES THAT ARE IN DANGER.

THERE'S PLACES THAT ARE GOING TO BE IN DIRE STRAITS.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, OR IF IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIME, BUT ALL THE INGREDIENTS ARE THERE FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN.

SO BY WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITIES, REBUILDING THE TRUST -- THE BIG ONE FOR ME IS TRANSPARENCY ABOUT WHAT, WHEN AND WHERE WE'RE DOING, BUILDING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

LIKE THE COMMUNITY MEETING IN SANTA FE THE OTHER DAY WAS GREAT.

CONCERNED LANDOWNERS ASKING HARD QUESTIONS.

THEY WEREN'T COMBATIVE, BUT THEY REALLY WANTED TO KNOW, AND IT WAS A GREAT CONVERSATION.

AND THAT'S THE MODEL I SEE MOVING FORWARD, IS CONTINUING THIS LEVEL OF ENGAGEMENT TO BUILD THAT TRUST AND UNDERSTAND THAT FIRE IS A PART OF OUR LANDSCAPE, IN MY OPINION.

I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

THIS SITUATION IS VERY COMPLEX.

BUT WE KNOW THE ALTERNATIVE.

I THINK OUR SITUATION IS STILL GOING TO BE BETTER WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE CAN CHANGE MOVING FORWARD FROM THIS DISASTER, INTEGRATING WITH OUR COMMUNITY, BUILDING THAT SUPPORT, AND USING THE TOOLS NECESSARY TO DO IT MORE ON OUR TERMS VERSUS BEING AT THE MERCY OF MOTHER NATURE.

>> LAURA: WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND, YOU KNOW, THE TOWN HALL MEETING AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

I'VE BEEN ASKING THE FOREST SERVICE SINCE APRIL 2022 TO HAVE ON-AIR CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HERMIT'S PEAK/CALF CANYON, PRESCRIBED FIRE, CLIMATE CHANGE, AND IT'S TAKEN A YEAR AND A HALF FOR THAT CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN.

WHAT IS THE FOREST SERVICE DOING IN TERMS OF BETTER TRANSPARENCY WITH THE PRESS?

>> MARTIN: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION, AND I HOPE THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF REALLY JUST BEING AVAILABLE, BEING OPEN AND WILLING TO TALK.

AND I APOLOGIZE THAT IT TOOK SO LONG FOR US TO GET HERE, BUT I CERTAINLY WOULD INVITE ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS, SHOULD YOU WANT THEM, AND WE WON'T MAKE YOU WAIT A YEAR AND A HALF AGAIN.

SO I THINK THAT -- SO SORRY THAT IT DID TAKE SO LONG.

EVERYTHING EVEN FROM THE WAY THAT WE WORK WITH THE PRESS DURING SUPPRESSION TO THE KINDS OF ENGAGEMENT THAT SHAUN'S TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE HAVE A PRESCRIBED FIRE, WE ARE REALLY JUST, YOU KNOW, LIFTING UP THE CURTAIN, THROWING THE ROOM OPEN AND JUST INVITING PEOPLE IN, BECAUSE WE SEE THAT AS A NECESSARY STEP TOWARDS REBUILDING TRUST WITH THE COMMUNITY.

SO HOLD US TO THAT, AND I MEAN THAT.

HOLD US TO IT.

>> LAURA: SO WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT POLICIES AND PROTOCOLS, AND CHANGES AND BIG OVERWHELMING ISSUES, BUT SORT OF AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE ALL JUST FOUR HUMAN BEINGS SITTING AROUND A TABLE TOGETHER.

AND CERTAINLY SO MANY NEW MEXICAN LIVES HAVE BEEN IMPACTED.

I'D LIKE TO START WITH YOU, SHAUN.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SAY TO NEW MEXICANS ABOUT LAST YEAR, AND ALSO ABOUT THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO'S FORESTS?

>> SHAUN: I THINK TAKING A CUE FROM MICHIKO, ONE IS TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE FOREST SERVICES ROLE LAST YEAR.

I WAS WORKING FOR THE U.S.

FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE IN WASHINGTON, D.C. LAST APRIL, AND WATCHING THE BRIEFINGS AND EVERYTHING GOING ON SO FAR AWAY WAS A PRETTY HELPLESS FEELING FOR ME.

MY PARENTS WERE EVACUATED FOR I THINK A TOTAL OF ABOUT FIVE WEEKS.

I'VE GOT A COUSIN THAT LOST A HOME.

NUMEROUS FRIENDS AND FAMILY EVACUATED, AND I'VE SEEN A LOT OF THE DEVASTATION AND DESTRUCTION THAT OCCURRED BECAUSE OF LAST YEAR.

AND IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

I CAN'T PUT INTO WORDS THE FEELING THAT I HAVE, AND I CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE THOSE THAT LOST EVERYTHING.

AND THEIR LIVES WILL BE FOREVER CHANGED.

SO I TOTALLY RECOGNIZE THAT.

AND WHAT MY COMMITMENT IS I GUESS I SHOULD GO BACK AND SAY, IT ACTUALLY CHANGED MY LIFE, AS WELL, BECAUSE IT CHANGED MY TRAJECTORY.

I HAD BEEN TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO COME BACK HOME, AND HERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME HOME AND HELP, TO HELP TRY TO HEAL, TO HELP RECOVER, RESTORE, AND TO REALLY THINK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES IN THE FUTURE AND HOW WE CAN LIVE TOGETHER AND WORK TOGETHER, KNOWING JUST HOW IMPORTANT THE LAND IS TO PEOPLE IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

AND AS DENNIS SAID, THE STEWARDS THAT HAVE BEEN ENTRUSTED THIS RESPONSIBILITY IS THE FOREST SERVICE.

IT'S NOT A RESPONSIBILITY THAT WE TAKE VERY LIGHTLY, AND WE ARE COMMITTED TO BEING A PART OF THE COMMUNITIES, AND WE'RE COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH OUR COMMUNITIES TO ADDRESS THE CRISIS THAT'S BEFORE US AND TO REALLY HEAL, RECOVER, RESTORE, AND BUILD A REALLY NEW FUTURE FOR NORTHERN NEW MEXICO TOGETHER.

>> LAURA: DENNIS, THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO.

>> CARRIL: IT WILL BE HERE.

IT'S GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ENGAGE ON, AND IT'S GOING TO BE A PART OF OUR LIVES.

THE FUTURE OF FIRE, I THINK I'VE TOUCHED ON IT BEFORE.

IT'S THIS REACTIVE VERSUS PROACTIVE THING, AND I'LL TOUCH ON IT AGAIN.

AGAIN, BUILDING THE TRUST, HAVING THE TRANSPARENT CONVERSATIONS, ENGAGING, MAKING THIS A CULTURAL SHIFT HERE IN NEW MEXICO TO ACCEPT, ACKNOWLEDGE, AND DEAL WITH FIRE TOGETHER, NOT JUST THE AGENCY IN A VACUUM, BUT TRYING TO BE TRANSPARENT.

THERE AREN'T VERY GOOD OPTIONS FOR US, BUT WE KNOW, LIKE FROM CERRO PELADO -- THE STORY'S NOT OUT THERE YET, AND I'M GLAD YOU HAVE ONE MORE TIME SLOT HERE.

THE IRONY OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT FIRE, THE ESCAPED PRESCRIBED FIRE, BUT THE INTERACTIONS WITH THE TREATMENTS FROM THE LANDSCAPE PROJECT THERE THAT HAPPENED IN THE EARLY 2010S UP AGAINST OVER ALMOST 40 MILE AN HOUR WINDS STEERED THE FIRE AWAY FROM THAT COMMUNITY BECAUSE OF THE CUTTING AND BURNING TREATMENTS.

THIS STUFF WORKS.

I WANT THAT TO BE THE FUTURE OF FIRE IN NEW MEXICO, WHERE WE HAVE SUCCESSES LIKE THAT THAT WE'RE INVITED TO TALK ABOUT AND SHARE ABOUT, AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT THESE KIND OF TREATMENTS WORK, AND BY WORKING TOGETHER AND FOCUSING AND PRIORITIZING WHERE WE PLACE THESE TREATMENTS, THEY DO WORK, THEY DO HAVE AN EFFECT, AND IT'S A WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH FIRE GOING INTO CHANGING TIMES IN THE FUTURE.

>> LAURA: MICHIKO, WE ARE OUT OF TIME, BUT LAST WORDS.

>> MARTIN: YES, THANK YOU.

I WON'T SUGARCOAT IT.

WE ARE IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

NEW MEXICO IS IN A WILDFIRE CRISIS.

THE GOOD NEWS, THOUGH, IS THAT WE KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

DENNIS HAS TALKED ABOUT MECHANICAL THINNING, PRESCRIBED FIRE.

SO WE KNOW WHAT TO DO IN ORDER TO HELP THE FIVE NATIONAL FORESTS IN NEW MEXICO BE HEALTHY AND BE RESILIENT.

AND WORKING TOGETHER WITH OUR RESIDENTS IN NEW MEXICO, WE CAN GET THERE.

SO I AM VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE, BUT IT STARTS WITH COMMITMENT TO ADDRESSING THE WILDFIRE CRISIS THAT'S BEFORE US RIGHT NOW.

>> LAURA: WELL, THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING IN TO HAVE THIS IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> LOU: THANKS TO LAURA FOR THAT INTERVIEW.

YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED A BIT MORE OF OUR CORRESPONDENTS OVER THE SECOND HALF OF 2023 AS WE TRANSITIONED THROUGH LONGTIME HOST GENE GRANT'S DEPARTURE.

THAT'S WHY WE INVITED OUR THREE LEAD CORRESPONDENTS TO THE STUDIO, TOGETHER - TO REINTRODUCE THEM TO YOU, OUR AUDIENCE.

THEY EXPLAIN IN THEIR OWN WORDS, THE TYPES OF STORIES THEY'RE INTERESTED IN EXPLORING EACH WEEK.

ALONGSIDE RUSSELL CONTRERAS AND ANTONIA GONZALES, HERE'S GWYNETH DOLAND - >> GWYNETH: THANKS LOU.

I'M NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND, AND I'M HAPPY TO BE IN STUDIO TODAY WITH ANTONIA AND RUSSELL, WHO YOU JUST SAW INTERVIEWING THE U.S. ATTORNEY.

ANTONIA, YOU'VE DONE SOME GREAT WORK HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, TOO, SPEAKING WITH LEONA MORGAN ABOUT THE HISTORY OF NUCLEAR DEVELOPMENT ON THE NAVAJO NATION JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

I KNOW I'M AT THE HEAD OF THE TABLE TODAY, BUT NOT FOR ANY GOOD REASON.

WE'VE ALL BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

BUT I WANT TO START WITH YOU, ANTONIA.

CAN YOU TELL US -- JUST REFRESH THE AUDIENCE, REACQUAINT THEM WITH YOU AND WHAT YOU'VE DONE IN YOUR CAREER SO FAR, AND THE TYPE OF WORK YOU ARE MOSTLY DOING HERE AT THE STATION.

>> ANTONIA: WELL, I'M A PROUD CITIZEN OF THE NAVAJO NATION.

I GREW UP IN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.

I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, GOT MY JOURNALISM DEGREE WAY BACK WHEN, LONG TIME AGO, AND THEN I STARTED OUT AS A COMMERCIAL TELEVISION REPORTER.

I HAD GREAT MENTORS.

FAMOUS INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER CONROY CHINO, THAT'S WELL-KNOWN HERE IN NEW MEXICO, HE WAS ONE OF MY MENTORS BACK IN THE DAY.

SO I DID A LITTLE BIT OF COMMERCIAL TELEVISION UNTIL I FOUND MY PASSION IN NATIVE RADIO, WHICH I'VE BEEN DOING FOR, GEEZ, COUPLE DECADES NOW, AND I'M STILL DOING IT, OBVIOUSLY.

AND OF COURSE, HERE MY WORK WITH NEW MEXICO PBS MOSTLY COVERING TRIBAL ISSUES AND MIRRORING A LOT OF THE WORK THAT I'M DOING ON THE RADIO.

>> GWYNETH: WE ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE YOU DOING IT.

RUSS, HOW ABOUT YOU?

HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A JOURNALIST?

WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN EXACT YEAR.

BUT WHAT WERE YOU DOING BEFORE YOU CAME TO US?

>> RUSSELL: WELL, I STARTED MY CAREER IN THE NINETIES WORKING IN HOUSTON, WORKING ON ALTERNATIVE NEWS WEEKLY PUBLICATIONS, AND THEN I TOOK MY CAREER TO NEW YORK AND THEN BOSTON AND BACK HERE.

THIS IS MY SECOND TIME IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU KNOW, THE STORIES I COVER NOW AT AXIOS ARE AROUND RACE AND JUSTICE, AND THAT'S LOOKING AT HOW RACE PLAYS A ROLE IN THE DEBATES AROUND OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM, WHAT'S GOING ON.

THE COUNTRY IS BECOMING MORE DIVERSE.

IT'S BECOMING YOUNGER, BUT YET WE SEEM TO NOT BE ABLE TO RECONCILE OUR HISTORY.

AND THAT WILL SPILL OVER IN HOW THINGS -- HOW WE DEBATE THINGS ABOUT EDUCATION, ABOUT OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM.

LIKE, WHO CAN HOLD OFFICE, WHO'S ELIGIBLE TO HOLD OFFICE.

THESE ARE INTENSE DEBATES THAT DON'T GO AWAY.

AND THIS REMINDS ME OF SOME OF THE STUFF YOU COVER HERE IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ABOUT A DECADE, COVERING OUR LEGISLATURE WHEN IT BEGINS IN JANUARY.

WHERE CAN WE FIND YOU WHEN YOU'RE NOT STICKING A MIC IN A LAWMAKER'S FACE, WHAT ARE YOU UP TO NOW?

>> GWYNETH: IT'S PRETTY TOUGH DOING THIS SESSION.

AS EVERYONE KNOWS, THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION JUST THROWS YOUR REGULAR LIFE UP IN THE AIR.

BUT YOU KNOW, I'M TEACHING MOST OF THE TIME NOW.

I STARTED IN ALT WEEKLIES TOO, RUSS, IN THE NINETIES, AND THEN I SPENT ABOUT TEN YEARS IN NEWSPAPERS.

THEN I MOVED TO POLITICS ONLINE AND DID SOME RADIO, AND THEN CAME HERE TO TV.

AND I'VE BEEN TEACHING FOR ABOUT 13 YEARS.

THAT'S AS LONG AS I'VE BEEN HERE.

AND I STARTED TEACHING JUST ONE CLASS AT A TIME FOR FUN, AND NOW I'VE SORT OF FLIPPED MY CAREER WHERE I'M MOSTLY TEACHING.

I'M A PROFESSOR NOW.

AND THEN I COME OVER HERE TO SPEND TIME WITH YOU AND COVER THE LEGISLATURE, DO SOME ELECTIONS.

AND WHEN I ASK NICELY, THEY LET ME DO SOME INTERVIEWS WITH AUTHORS AND ARTISTS, SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE, YOU KNOW, MORE COLORFUL.

>> RUSSELL: GEN X POWER, THAT'S WHAT I SAY.

>> GWYNETH: THAT'S RIGHT.

WE'VE GOT TO STICK TOGETHER, RIGHT.

ANTONIA, SPEAKING OF POLITICAL COVERAGE, YOU'VE DONE SOME OF THAT, TOO, AND THAT'S ONE OF YOUR AREAS OF EXPERTISE.

YOU HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWING CANDIDATES, BOTH OF THE LEADING CANDIDATES FOR THE NAVAJO NATION PRESIDENT AHEAD OF LAST YEAR'S ELECTION.

WHAT TYPES OF STORIES ARE YOU REALLY INTERESTED IN DOING NOW MOVING FORWARD?

>> ANTONIA: WELL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE, DEFINITELY WITH THE ELECTION, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE ELECTION COVERAGE, AND IT'S NOT JUST THE TRIBAL CANDIDATES AND THE TRIBAL LEADERS, BUT NATIONAL ELECTIONS, STATE ELECTIONS, BECAUSE OF COURSE, INDIAN COUNTRY IS IMPORTANT WHEN IT COMES TO HAVING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

OF COURSE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS A TRUST RESPONSIBILITY TO TRIBES.

>> GWYNETH: IT'S A BIG CONSTITUENCY.

>> ANTONIA: YEAH.

AND SO HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE 23 TRIBES AND THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES ON HERE, SO DEFINITELY ELECTION COVERAGE COMING UP.

I JUST FINISHED DOING A COUPLE STORIES IN SANTA FE.

ONE WAS TALKING TO ARTISTS AT THE SANTA FE INDIAN MARKET, AND ALSO THIS REALLY NEAT ALASKA NATIVE PARKA EXHIBIT THAT'S BEING SHOWN IN SANTA FE THROUGH NEXT APRIL.

SO THOSE ARE A COUPLE OF STORIES THAT ARE GOING TO COME OUT PRETTY SOON.

AND DEFINITELY HEALTH CARE, EDUCATION, HOUSING.

ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH NATIVE PEOPLE.

>> GWYNETH: PEOPLE OFTEN THINK THAT WE'RE REALLY INTO OUR OWN LITTLE BEATS, BUT THE THING THAT SORT OF UNIFIES US AS JOURNALISTS IS THIS RELENTLESS CURIOSITY, RIGHT?

RUSS, YOU'VE HAD SOME PRETTY GOOD INTERVIEWS, SOME FAIRLY HIGH PROFILE INTERVIEWS IN RECENT MONTHS.

YOU DID BERNALILLO COUNTY'S NEW DISTRICT ATTORNEY, AND THEN THE INTERVIEW WE JUST SAW TODAY WITH U.S. ATTORNEY ALEX UBALLEZ.

BUT THEN YOU'VE ALSO SPOKEN WITH AUTHORS AND PROFESSORS.

WHAT SHOULD VIEWERS BE LOOKING FOR YOU TO DO IN THE COMING MONTHS?

WHAT ARE YOU REALLY INTO RIGHT NOW?

>> RUSSELL: WELL, WHEN WE GET A GUEST INTO STUDIO, WE ASK THEM, JUST GIVE ME TEN MINUTES.

I WANT YOU TO BE ABLE TO LISTEN TO HOW WE DIVE INTO THIS PERSON'S LIFE.

WE TRY OUR BEST HERE TO GET THE GUEST TO GO BEYOND TALKING POINTS.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF POLITICIANS WILL COME IN HERE, THEY'RE VERY COACHED BY POLITICAL CONSULTANTS, AND THEIR WHOLE GOAL IS NOT TO GET IN TROUBLE.

WE WANT TO HELP GET THEM, PUSH THEM ASIDE AND TELL US SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

LOOK, WE'RE THE POOREST STATE IN THE NATION.

WE HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES HERE.

IF A POLITICIAN IS JUST SITTING THROWING OUT TALKING POINTS AND NOT GIVING US ANYTHING, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ADVANCE.

WE NEED TO ASK THE TOUGH QUESTIONS.

HOW ARE YOU DIFFERENT?

IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO SAY, I'M FOR MY CHILDREN'S FUTURE, I'M ANTI-POTHOLE, WE SHOULD ALL BE THAT WAY, RIGHT?

TELL ME SOMETHING THAT KEEPS YOU UP AT NIGHT.

AND THIS REMINDS ME OF WHAT YOU DO AS A POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT.

YOU BRING UP A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT OUR POLITICAL LANDSCAPE.

YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT REDISTRICTING.

IN THE COMING DAYS, WHAT ARE YOU INTERESTED IN?

WHAT REALLY CAPTURES YOUR IMAGINATION ABOUT OUR POLITICAL LANDSCAPE, AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE DOING IN THE NEXT COMING MONTHS?

>> GWYNETH: I LIKED WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE AND THE CHANGING DEMOGRAPHICS AND THE CHANGING IDEAS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STARTING TO VOTE NOW AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE OUR FUTURE LAWMAKERS.

WE'VE GOT A FAIRLY FRESH CROP OF LAWMAKERS IN SANTA FE RIGHT NOW.

IT'S BEEN A VERY INTERESTING TIME OF TRANSITION, OF POWER OVER THE PAST FIVE, SIX YEARS, A LOT OF NEW VOICES UP THERE, A LOT OF CHANGES WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

ALL OF THIS IS MAKING US KIND OF RE-EXAMINE DYNAMICS THAT REALLY HAD BEEN FAIRLY STUCK IN PLACE FOR DECADES, AND NOW IT'S KIND OF A NEW GAME, WHICH I FIND REALLY INTERESTING.

OF COURSE, THIS JANUARY, WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT MONEY.

MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, BECAUSE IT'S A BUDGET SESSION.

SOME OF THESE ARE GOING TO BE FAMILIAR THEMES.

OH, HEY, WE'VE GOT A WHOLE BUNCH OF OIL AND GAS MONEY RIGHT NOW, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH IT?

BUT THE NATURE OF THESE CONVERSATIONS IS DIFFERENT.

NOW PEOPLE ARE TALKING IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE OFTEN DO THESE THINGS AS REPORTERS WHERE YOU PLAN AN INTERVIEW, AND THEN YOU THINK, OKAY, WHAT'S SHE GOING TO SAY WHEN I ASK THAT?

OKAY, SHE'S GOING TO SAY THAT, I KNOW, AND THEN I'M GOING TO SAY THIS, RIGHT, AND YOU CAN BASICALLY KIND OF PLAN INTERVIEWS OUT BECAUSE YOU KNOW THIS POLITICIAN.

WITH AN ARTIST, YOU CAN NEVER PREDICT THAT, RIGHT, BUT WITH POLITICIANS, YOU CAN.

BUT I'M FINDING THIS HARDER AND HARDER.

AND THAT'S WHAT'S KEEPING ME REALLY INTERESTED, YOU KNOW.

LOOKING OUT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOW MY STUDENTS WHO ARE GOING TO BE GRADUATING, GETTING REAL JOBS IN NEWS, AND THEN BUYING HOUSES AND BECOMING MEMBERS OF THEIR COMMUNITIES, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOMING INTERESTED IN THE SCHOOL BOARD AND TAXES AND DEVELOPMENT AND ALL THESE KINDS OF THINGS.

SO I KEEP MY STUDENTS IN MIND WHEN I'M DOING ALL OF THIS REPORTING.

NOT JUST, IS THIS GOING TO BE RELEVANT TO THEM WHEN THEY SEE IT, BUT LOOKING OUT FOR THEIR INTERESTS.

>> RUSSELL: ESPECIALLY AS THE MEDIA CHANGES ITS LANDSCAPE, WE HAVE TO REALLY CONSIDER, HOW DO WE USE MEDIA TO HIT OUR CONSUMERS.

WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT NEWSLETTERS.

WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT PODCASTS.

WE'VE GOT TO THINK ABOUT NONTRADITIONAL WAYS TO GO AFTER THESE NEWS CONSUMERS WHO ARE GOING TO BE SHAPING OUR STATE'S FUTURE.

>> GWYNETH: YEAH, MY STUDENTS NEVER WATCH THIS SHOW AT 7:00 O'CLOCK ON FRIDAY, BUT THEY SEE IT ON YOUTUBE, RIGHT, ALL THE TIME.

SO WE'LL CHECK IN WITH THEM THERE.

BUT IT WAS GREAT CATCHING UP WITH YOU ALL, AND I LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU IN THE COMING MONTHS AND DOING SOME REALLY GREAT TELEVISION.

THANK YOU.

>> LOU DIVIZIO: THANKS FOR WATCHING WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.