>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO  IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> LOU DIVIZIO: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS…  THE APPROACH NEW MEXICO’S U.S. ATTORNEY IS USING TO  TACKLE GUN VIOLENCE AND THE REST OF HIS JOB.

>> UBALLEZ: EVERYTHING THAT WE  DO, AT A LOCAL LEVEL, BETWEEN ME AND YOU... EVERY BULLET  THAT’S FIRED, CASCADES IN IMPACT.

>> LOU: PLUS, ARE THE KID'S ALRIGHT?

WE ASK TWO SCHOOL COUNSELORS HOW STUDENTS ARE COPING WITH  THE UNIQUE STRESSORS THEY FACED IN 2023.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

>> LOU DIVIZIO: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I’M  SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS HAD ANOTHER  STANDOUT YEAR IN 2023 AND AT THE END OF TONIGHT’S SHOW, SHE’LL TAKE US INTO THE COLORADO RIVER WATERSHED,  WHERE THE GILA RIVER MEANS SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS, TO SO  MANY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

THANKS IN PART TO FUNDING  FROM THE WATER DESK, A JOURNALISM INITIATIVE AT THE  UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO BOULDER, LAURA ASKS US TO CONSIDER WHAT LESSONS THE RIVER HOLDS FOR THE FUTURE AND THE REST OF THE  COLORADO RIVER BASIN.

BEFORE THAT, IN ABOUT 15  MINUTES, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR SPEAKS WITH  TWO SCHOOL COUNSELORS ABOUT THE UNIQUE HURDLES  STUDENTS ARE CONFRONTING AND HOW THOSE CHALLENGES HAVE  IMPACTED THEIR MENTAL HEALTH AND THEIR COURSEWORK.

BUT WE BEGIN WITH U.S. ATTORNEY ALEXANDER UBALLEZ  IN AN INTERVIEW RECORDED AS HE BEGAN HIS SECOND YEAR  SERVING THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO.

IN THIS,  THE SECOND INSTALLMENT OF THIS TWO-PART CONVERSATION,  NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS  ASKS MR. UBALLEZ ABOUT HIS BACKGROUND  AND HIS WORK  TO ADDRESS THE STATE'S TROUBLED HISTORY OF  MURDERED AND MISSING INDIGENOUS WOMEN.

>> Russell: THIS APRIL AT A PRESS CONFERENCE WHEN YOU  ANNOUNCED A $2 MILLION GRANT  FROM THE DOJ TO FIGHT VIOLENT CRIME IN  ALBUQUERQUE, YOU ALSO MADE A PASSIONATE PLEA TO THE YOUTH  TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE.

IT WAS A VERY EMOTIONAL PLEA  AND YOU SPOKE DIRECTLY TO THE YOUTH OF THE CITY.

WHAT SPARKED YOU TO ASK THE YOUTH OF THIS NATION, DO  YOUR PART AND HELP CURTAIL GUN VIOLENCE?

>> Uballez: COMMUNITY.

IT'S MY FIRM BELIEF THAT WE  ARE HERE TOGETHER.

I THINK THERE'S AN EASY  TENDENCY, AND THIS GOES BACK TO MY FIRST YEARS IN LAW  SCHOOL, THERE'S AN EASY TENDENCY TO LOOK AT THE  FORMAT OF OUR GOVERNMENTS FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF  HOLDING SOMEONE TO ACCOUNT.

LIKE, IT IS MY JOB AS A  LAWYER TO MAKE SURE THAT PERSON IS DOING THEIR JOB.

PART OF THE COGNITIVE DISSONANCE FOR ME IN  STEPPING INTO THE LEGAL PROFESSION WAS REALIZING  THAT I BELIEVE WE ALL SERVE A ROLE, AND BEYOND THAT, WE  ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY, RIGHT.

NONE OF US ACTS IN A VACUUM.

EVERYTHING THAT WE DO AT A  LOCAL LEVEL, BETWEEN ME AND YOU, EVERY BULLET THAT'S  FIRED, AS WE KNOW TRAGICALLY FROM RECENT EVENTS, CASCADES  IN IMPACT.

EVERY PIECE OF PLASTIC WASTE  WE THROW AWAY, EVERY FAKE FENTANYL PILL DISTRIBUTED,  EACH OF THESE HAS FAR REACHING IMPACTS THROUGHOUT  THE COMMUNITY.

AND SO FOR ME, CHOOSING THIS  PROFESSION AS A LAWYER WAS ME REJECTING THIS IDEA OF,  YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO HOLD SOMEBODY TO ACCOUNT, WE NEED  TO POINT A FINGER AT SOMEBODY, AND INSTEAD  EMBRACING THIS IDEA OF ONE COMMUNITY, OUR COMMUNITY, A  MUTUAL RESPONSIBILITY, RIGHT, BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE  TO END UP HERE.

ONE OF THE HARDEST DECISIONS  OF MY LEGAL CAREER THAT I MADE VERY EARLY ON WAS  BETWEEN WHAT TO DO THE SUMMER AFTER MY 1-L YEAR.

THAT SUMMER, I WAS OFFERED A JOB AT A LARGE LAW FIRM THAT  WAS OFFERING ME, I THINK, $30,000 FOR ABOUT TEN WEEKS  OF MY WORK.

INSTEAD, I CHOSE TO COME AND  WORK HERE AT THE NEW MEXICO ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.

I MADE THAT DECISION FOR THIS COMMUNITY BECAUSE I  BELIEVED THAT WAS MY RESPONSIBILITY, TO COME AND  SERVE AND DO WHAT I CAN TO MAKE THIS COMMUNITY SAFER.

AND SO TO YOUR QUESTION, WHICH IS ABOUT THE YOUNG MEN  WHO ARE DRIVING VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITY, THEY ARE  MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY, TOO.

THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED UNCOUNTED  TRAUMAS THEMSELVES, AND THEIR PARENTS HAVE, MAYBE  THEIR GRANDPARENTS HAVE.

AND THEY ARE PEOPLE, TOO,  WHO EVEN IF WE PROSECUTE THEM, WE SEND THEM TO  PRISON, IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF CASES THEY'RE COMING BACK  OUT AT SOME POINT TO REJOIN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND SO WHETHER IT'S NOW OR IN TEN YEARS OR FIVE YEARS  OR FOUR, THEY ARE ALWAYS MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

AND SO WHEN I TALK DIRECTLY TO THOSE YOUNG MEN, I HOPE  TO GIVE THEM THAT MESSAGE, AND IT'S A DUAL PROMISE.

THIS IS WHAT I'M SO INCREDIBLY PROUD OF THE CITY  OF ALBUQUERQUE OF ENDORSING AND LEANING INTO, WHICH IS  THE VIOLENCE INTERVENTION PROGRAM HERE, WHICH  IDENTIFIES THESE YOUNG MEN THAT ARE MOST AT RISK FOR  SHOOTING OR BEING SHOT.

AND WE SAY BOTH OF THOSE  THINGS, BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME POPULATION OF PEOPLE,  RIGHT.

THEY'RE THE SHOOTERS AND  THEY'RE THE VICTIMS.

YOU GO AND TALK TO THEM, AND  I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE WITH THE MAYOR AND THE CHIEF, AND  WE'VE ROAD IN CARAVAN HOUSE TO HOUSE, SPEAKING WITH FOLK  WHO WE HAVE IDENTIFIED AS MOST AT RISK, THOSE WHO ARE  DRIVING VIOLENCE, AND WE TELL THEM, YOU KNOW, HERE  ARE THE TWO PROMISES, RIGHT.

WE WANT YOU TO BE SAFE,  ALIVE, AND FREE, BUT THE SHOOTING HAS TO STOP.

SO WE WILL HELP YOU IF YOU LET US.

THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE IS HERE, ESPECIALLY WITH NEW  FUNDING.

WHATEVER SOCIAL SERVICES --  THEY CALL IT THE BIG LITTLE THINGS, RIGHT.

DIAPERS, BUS PASSES, EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS.

WE WILL HELP YOU IF YOU LET US, RIGHT, AND WE WILL STOP  YOU IF YOU MAKE US.

AND WE TELL THEM THIS ON THE  FRONT END.

WE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,  WANT YOU TO BE SAFE, ALIVE AND FREE.

I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO LOCK YOU UP.

BUT THOSE ARE THE DUAL PROMISES THAT WE GIVE TO THE  YOUTH OF THIS CITY, IS THAT THERE IS A WAY OUT, THAT WE  BELIEVE IN YOU, AND THAT FUNDAMENTALLY I BELIEVE IN  FORGIVENESS AND REDEMPTION.

BUT TO ACCOMPLISH THAT, WE  DO IT TOGETHER.

WE DO IT AS A COMMUNITY, AND  WE CAN'T DO IT JUST BY ME SAYING, I'M GOING TO LOCK  YOU UP.

WE CAN'T DO IT JUST BY  SAYING, HERE'S FREE SERVICES.

WE CAN'T DO IT BY THREATENING OR BY USING A  CARROT ON THEIR OWN.

THE ONLY WAY -- AND THIS IS  BASED IN SCIENCE, RIGHT.

THERE'S A LOT OF STUDIES ON  THIS PROGRAM THAT GO BACK TO THE NINETIES IN BOSTON,  WHERE IT WAS FIRST CREATED.

IT WAS A GROUP VIOLENCE  INTERVENTION.

THE MESSAGES COME TOGETHER.

THE PROMISES COME TOGETHER.

IT'S ONLY BY MARRYING THE  ENFORCEMENT SIDE TO THE SOCIAL SERVICES SIDE ON THE  FRONT END AND GIVING PEOPLE THE CHOICE THAT PEOPLE WILL  MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR THIS COMMUNITY.

>> Russell: ON THIS NOTE, SOMETIMES LOCAL GOVERNMENTS,  ESPECIALLY LIKE BERNALILLO COUNTY AND SANTA FE COUNTY,  WILL LEAN ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND SAY, CAN YOU  HELP US OUT, BECAUSE YOU GUYS DO YOUR JOB.

WE MAY HAVE HOLES IN OUR SYSTEM IN FIGHTING CRIME.

BUT ON THAT NOTE, SOMEONE COULD COMMIT A CRIME IN A  LOCAL JURISDICTION AND GET NINE MONTHS, BUT IF THEY DO  IT IN THE FEDERAL JURISDICTION ON THE  RESERVATION, HE GETS SEVEN YEARS.

THERE'S A DISPARITY THERE.

IS THERE SOMETHING THAT  SHOULD BE WEDGED IN THAT DISPARITY OF SENTENCING  BETWEEN A LOCAL AND A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> Uballez: THERE'S A GIANT DISPARITY, AND I THINK  YOU'VE IDENTIFIED A COUPLE REALLY INTERESTING ISSUES  THERE IN TERMS OF WHERE THEY LIE.

I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A JURISDICTIONAL DISPUTE WITH  ANY OF THE LOCAL D.A.s HERE OVER A CASE.

IT IS BECAUSE WHENEVER -- IN FACT, OVER THIS WEEKEND,  EVEN, I RECEIVED MULTIPLE EMAILS, HEY, WILL YOU HELP  US WITH THIS CASE?

AND THAT COMES FROM THE  PERCEPTION THAT I BELIEVE IS BACKED UP BY THE DATA THAT  WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE HARD CASES, THOSE TRULY TERRIBLE  CASES, WE GET BETTER OUTCOMES AGAINST THOSE FOLK  WHO NEED TO TAKE SOME TIME AWAY FROM COMMUNITY.

AND SO IN TERMS OF EQUALIZING THE DISPARITIES,  AND I BELIEVE YOU'RE RIGHT ON THOSE, THE DISPARITIES  BETWEEN A FEDERAL PROSECUTION AND STATE, OR  FEDERAL PROSECUTION AND TRIBAL, THE ISSUE IS  COMPLEX, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE OPERATE UNDER DIFFERENT SETS  OF LAWS WITH DIFFERENT REASONS BEHIND THOSE LAWS,  AND DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS  INVESTING IN EACH.

I DIDN'T WRITE THE CODE  BOOK.

IT'S HUGE.

THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF THINGS THAT ARE ILLEGAL  FEDERALLY.

NOR DID I WRITE THE NEW  MEXICO STATE CODE BOOK, OR ANY TRIBAL LAW CODE BOOK.

BUT THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT BEING A PROSECUTOR IS  THIS: I DON'T GET TO SAY WHAT IS ILLEGAL.

I DON'T GET TO SAY WHETHER SOMEONE'S CONDUCT SHOULD BE  A CRIME IF IT'S NOT DEFINED IN THE CODE BOOK.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT BEING A PROSECUTORS IS  OUR DISCRETION, AND THAT IS WHERE WE HAVE OUR BIGGEST  IMPACT ON SOCIETY.

WE HAVE TO ALWAYS, AS  PROSECUTORS, ORIENT OUR DISCRETION TOWARDS JUSTICE,  TOWARDS COMMUNITY SAFETY.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS, WHEN WE  LOOK AT A CHARGE, WE LOOK AT A CASE, AS I WAS SAYING  BEFORE.

WE DON'T JUST LOOK AT  WHETHER A LAW WAS VIOLATED, WE LOOK AT WHETHER THIS IS A  JUST THING TO DO, AND THEN, WHAT ARE THE SOLUTIONS WE  ARE SEEKING TO THE PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE,  WHICH IS COMMUNITY SAFETY.

HOW DO WE ACHIEVE COMMUNITY  SAFETY USING THE TOOLS THAT WE HAVE.

FOR THAT REASON, WE'VE INVESTED HEAVILY OVER THE  PAST YEAR IN A NUMBER OF PROGRAMS THAT RECOGNIZE THIS  INTERDEPENDENCE OF OUR COMMUNITY.

WE'VE DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT WE'VE SENT TO  PRETRIAL DIVERSION WITHIN THE DISTRICT, AND WHAT THAT  MEANS IS FOLKS WHO COULD BE CHARGED WITH A FEDERAL  CRIME, BUT ARE NOT.

INSTEAD, WHAT THEY DO IS  THEY AGREE TO BE ON SUPERVISION, THEY AGREE TO  ACCEPT THE SUPPORT, THE HELP THAT WE OFFER.

AND IF THEY DO THAT SUCCESSFULLY, THEY WALK AWAY  WITHOUT A CONVICTION.

THEY WALK AWAY TO BE  PRODUCTIVE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY ONCE AGAIN WITHOUT  ANY ENCUMBRANCES COMING WITH A FEDERAL CONVICTION.

>> Russell: HAS PROSECUTION IN THE MAJOR CRIMES ACT LED  TO JUSTICE?

>> Uballez: YES AND NO.

SO AS I WAS SAYING ABOUT  DISCRETION, THE CODE BOOK IS TOO BIG.

ALL FEDERAL CRIMES, ALL STATE CRIMES, ARE NOT  ENFORCED.

AND SO WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT  WE DO, WE GET TO CHOOSE, WE SHOULD CHOOSE, WHEN TO USE  THE TOOLS IN THE MAJOR CRIMES ACT, OR WHEN NOT TO  USE THOSE TOOLS.

WHEN THEY ARE EFFECTIVE AT  SECURING PUBLIC SAFETY, WHEN SOMEBODY NEEDS A TIME-OUT,  AS I CALLED IT BEFORE, FROM THE COMMUNITY TO COOL DOWN,  OR WHEN A PERSON NEEDS TO BE SUPPORTED, WHEN A PERSON  NEEDS TO ENTER, FOR EXAMPLE, PRETRIAL DIVERSION, WHEN A  PERSON NEEDS, FOR EXAMPLE, COMING BACK TO THE COMMUNITY  TO BE SUPPORTED THROUGH OUR REENTRY COURT, WHICH I'M  ACTUALLY REALLY PROUD TO SAY WE'RE SETTING UP THIS  DISTRICT'S FIRST FEDERAL REENTRY COURT TO WORK WITH  PEOPLE AS THEY RETURN.

AND SO WE USE THE TOOLS THAT  WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THE COMMUNITY SAFETY ISSUES THAT  WE'RE FACED WITH.

BUT PROSECUTION ALONE,  INCARCERATION ALONE, ISN'T ENOUGH TO SECURE COMMUNITY  SAFETY, AND SO THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED THE LARGE NUMBER  OF PROSECUTORS AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES I'M  BRINGING TO INDIAN COUNTRY HERE IN THE DISTRICT.

THE GOAL IS NOT JUST TO INCREASE PROSECUTIONS, THE  GOAL IS TO HAVE A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO CRIME AND PUBLIC  SAFETY.

EVERY ONE OF MY PROSECUTORS  IN THAT SECTION RIGHT NOW SERVES AS A TRIBAL LIAISON.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS, EACH OF THEM HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY  TO A SPECIFIC TRIBE OR PUEBLO WHERE THEY INTERACT  DIRECTLY AND INTERFACE DIRECTLY IN A  GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT MANNER BOTH WITH THEIR  GOVERNMENTS AND THEIR LAW ENFORCEMENTS, SO WE CAN SEEK  OTHER OPTIONS TO PURSUE COMMUNITY SAFETY.

THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING FROM TRAINING, EDUCATION,  INTERVENTION AND PREVENTION WORK.

AND ONLY BY, AS I SAID, WITH THE VIOLENCE INTERVENTION  WORK MARRYING THESE MULTIPLE APPROACHES TOGETHER, WHICH  WE CAN DO AS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, CAN WE BRING  SAFETY TO THESE COMMUNITIES.

>> Russell: LAST QUESTION.

I HEAR YOU TALKING AND IT  SEEMS VERY CLEAR WHERE YOUR HEART IS.

AND I KNOW FROM COVERING LAW  ENFORCEMENT, TO ME THE PROSECUTOR WAS ALWAYS THE  HARD-NOSED, SOMEWHAT CONSERVATIVE FIGURE.

CAN A PROGRESSIVE BE AN EFFECTIVE PROSECUTOR?

>> Uballez: YES.

I DON'T CALL MYSELF A  PROGRESSIVE PROSECUTOR, I CALL MYSELF A PROSECUTOR,  BECAUSE WHEN A PROSECUTOR IS DOING HIS JOB RIGHT, HE IS  ORIENTED TOWARD COMMUNITY SAFETY FIRST.

SO BY USING THESE TOOLS AND THINKING AS A HUMAN BEING  WHO IS A PART OF THIS COMMUNITY, AND NOT AS A  LAWYER WHO FITS WORDS INTO STATUTES AND ARGUES IN  COURT, I AM FULFILLING MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PURSUE  COMMUNITY SAFETY AND TO PURSUE JUSTICE AS A  PROSECUTOR.

AND SO I BELIEVE VERY  STRONGLY THAT IT IS OUR ROLE, AS I WAS DISCUSSING  WITH PROSECTORIAL DISCRETION, TO ALWAYS WIELD  THAT POWER CAREFULLY AND WITH A MIND TOWARDS THE END  GOAL.

WE CAN'T PROSECUTE EVERY  CRIME, NOR SHOULD WE.

PROSECTORIAL DISCRETION IS A  VALVE, AND IT TURNS ONLY ONE DIRECTION.

IT TURNS TOWARDS MERCY.

IT TURNS AGAINST CHARGING  PEOPLE.

OUR DISCRETION ALLOWS US TO  GIVE PEOPLE MERCY.

AND IN THAT CONTEXT, I THINK  EVERY PROSECUTOR'S JOB IS TO DETERMINE WHAT IS THE BEST  WAY IN A VERY PRACTICAL, COMMON SENSE, EMPIRICAL WAY,  WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO BRING SAFETY TO THIS  COMMUNITY WITH THE TOOLS THAT I HAVE.

AND IF I'M NOT DOING THAT, WHAT AM I DOING?

>> Russell: ALEX, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW  MEXICO In FOCUS.

>> Uballez: MY PLEASURE.

IT'S BEEN MY HONOR.

>> ZACK QUINTERO: THIS SPECIFIC TYPE OF DIALECT  HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE HERE IN NEW MEXICO FOR THE LAST  400 YEARS.

AND WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH THE  LEGACY PROJECT IS MAKE SURE THAT WE SERVE AS AN AUDIO  AND DIGITAL REPOSITORY TO COLLECT, PROTECT AND PRESERVE  THIS LANGUAGE FOR THE ENTIRE STATE AND FOR THE ENTIRE  COUNTRY, FOR THAT MATTER.

AND MAKING SURE THAT HUNDREDS  OF YEARS FROM NOW, WHEN FOLKS ASK, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT KINDS  OF POINTS OF LANGUAGE AND DIALECT AND HISTORY, WHERE  SPANISH WAS BEING SPOKEN IN NORTHERN NORTH AMERICA,  THEY CAN SAY NEW MEXICO.

>> LOU DIVIZIO: MY CONVERSATION WITH  NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER DIRECTOR ZACK QUINTERO  IS COMING UP IN A LITTLE OVER 15 MINUTES.

AND YOU CAN WATCH  THE FIRST PART OF RUSSELL’S INTERVIEW WITH U-S ATTORNEY  ALEXANDER UBALLEZ ONLINE RIGHT NOW AT NMPBS.ORG.

WE’VE SPENT  QUITE A BIT OF TIME THE LAST FEW MONTHS ON  NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION – WITH  MUCH OF OUR ATTENTION PAID TO POLICY – BUT WE ALSO KNEW  THE STUDENT EXPERIENCE HAD TO BE ADDRESSED.

FROM THE ANXIETY  OF COMING BACK FROM THE COVID PANDEMIC TO THE STRESS THAT  COMES WITH THE GROWING THREAT OF SCHOOL VIOLENCE, KIDS DEALT  WITH A LOT IN 2023.

THIS OCTOBER WE DECIDED TO TALK TO SCHOOL  COUNSELORS WHO LISTEN TO CONCERNS LIKE THOSE FROM  STUDENTS EVERY DAY.

EXECUTIVE  PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR ASKS WHAT THEY’RE SEEING IN THE STUDENTS  THEY WORK WITH AND HOW ADULTS CAN BETTER HELP YOUNG PEOPLE  ADJUST, MENTALLY AND EMOTIONALLY.

>> JEFF: BRYAN, DEVON,  THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS THIS WEEK.

>> SHELTON: THANK YOU.

>> JEFF: AS WE JUST HEARD, YOU BOTH WORK AS COUNSELORS IN  ALBUQUERQUE PUBLIC SCHOOLS WHICH GIVES YOU BOTH UNIQUE  INSIGHT INTO HOW STUDENTS ARE DOING.

IN A DIFFERENT WAY EVEN THAN TEACHERS INTERACT WITH  STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM.

I AM NOT A PARENT BUT I AM  CLOSE WITH A LOT OF MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL AGE KIDS AND THEY  HAVE DESCRIBED, OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST FEW YEARS  SOME REAL DIFFICULTIES THAT THEY HAVE FACED.

SO, BRYAN, I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH YOU, WITH THE BIG  QUESTION, ARE THE KIDS ALL RIGHT?

>> GABALDON: ARE THE KIDS ALL  RIGHT?

THAT IS A BIG QUESTION, LIKE  YOU SAID.

FOR THE MOST PART, WE ARE  TRYING TO GET THEM TO THAT SPACE, BUT IN ALL HONESTY,  MANY OF THEM ARE NOT.

THEY ARE STRUGGLING, MANY OF  THEM.

A LARGE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE.

>> JEFF: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE PATTERNS OR THEMES THAT YOU'RE  SEEING IN THAT STRUGGLE?

WHAT HAS SORT OF UNDERPINNED  THE STRUGGLE THAT YOU'RE SEEING.

>> GABALDON: I THINK SINCE THE PANDEMIC, WE HAVE SEEN AN  INCREASE WITH PROBLEMS IN ABSENTEEISM.

AND A LOT MORE SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN THE SCHOOL.

STUDENTS JUST HAVE A ROUGH TIME GETTING TO SCHOOL IN  GENERAL, A LOT OF THE TIME.

AND IF THEY HAD STRUGGLES  BEFORE THE PANDEMIC WE HAVE SEEN THE STRUGGLES INCREASE,  SO WE ARE ALSO SEEING ACADEMIC  DEFICIENCIES AS A RESULT.

SO, COMBINED WE ARE JUST  SEEING A HODGE-PODGE OF LARGE STUFF THEY HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

ISSUES.

BIG ISSUES.

>> JEFF: DEVON, I KNOW YOU WORK AT A SMALLER SCHOOL AS A  COUNSELOR.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS,  THE UNIQUE, CHALLENGES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN WITH SOME OF THE  STUDENTS WHO COME TO YOU FOR HELP?

>> SHELTON: WELL, I WORK AT AN  ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, SO SOMETIMES WITH THE YOUNGER  STUDENTS, THERE IS AN UNDERCURRENT OF HOPE, EVEN,  BECAUSE THEY ARE YOUNGER AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF TIME TO  MAKE THINGS UP AND PERSEVERE.

BUT SINCE THE PANDEMIC, I HAVE  NOTICED A LOT OF SOCIAL CHALLENGES, INTERACTING WITH  PEERS IN A WAY THAT IS HEALTHY.

ACADEMIC CHALLENGES FOR SURE, WHICH IMPACT HOW THEY INTERACT  WITH THEIR PEERS AND HOW THEY ARE AT SCHOOL.

SO, YES, I THINK THE BUG QUESTION, THE KIDS CAN BE ALL  RIGHT BUT WE NEED TO ALL WORK TOGETHER AND WE ARE.

EDUCATORS, COMMUNITY, FAMILIES WE ALL NEED TO COME TOGETHER  TO KIND OF PUSH THEM UP TOWARDS ALL RIGHT.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE MANY STRUGGLING KIDS.

>> JEFF: ISOLATION IS OBVIOUSLY A PART OF THIS.

STUDENTS WHO WERE REQUIRED TO LEARN THROUGH A SCREEN INSTEAD  OF THE FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION THAT HAPPENS IN  THE CLASSROOM.

WHAT HAS THE TRANSITION BACK  TO IN-PERSON LEARNING BEEN LIKE AND HAS THAT PRESENTED  ITS OWN SORT OF UNIQUE CHALLENGES?

>> SHELTON: I THINK FOR THE ELEMENTARY LEVEL, IN  PARTICULAR, WE ARE SEEING KIND OF POCKETS OF STRUGGLE,  ESPECIALLY IF THEY MISSED EARLIER YEARS, PRE K, KINDER,  FIRST, SECOND BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE A LOT OF LEARNING HOW TO  BE IN SCHOOL TAKES PLACE ON TOP OF ACADEMIC LEARNING.

SO  THAT HAS BEEN A STRUGGLE AND THERE IS SOME NERVOUSNESS,  ANXIETY FEELING FROM STUDENTS, NOT ALL, BUT WE SEE IT IN HOW  THEY INTERACT WITH THEIR PEERS BUT ALSO MAYBE WANT TO ESCAPE  THE ACADEMIC LEARNING, BECAUSE THEY ARE FEELING OVERWHELMED.

BUT, THAT IS WHERE WE COME IN, THAT IS WHERE COUNSELORS COME  IN, GREAT EDUCATORS COME IN AND WE RETEACH THOSE SKILLS  AND BUILD THEM BACK UP.

BUT I DO SEE IT WITH THE  YOUNGER KIDS AS THEY MOVE UP, THAT THERE WAS A DEFICIT WHEN  THEY WERE BEHIND THE SCREEN OR NOT ABLE TO INTERACT ON  PLAYGROUND OR PRESCHOOL OR ANYPLACE LIKE THAT.

>> JEFF: THAT IS SORT OF THE IDEA OF SOCIAL EMOTIONAL  LEARNING, RIGHT, WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE ARE  LEARNING IN CLASSROOMS, RIGHT?

SCHOOL IS SUPPOSED TO BE  SOMETHING THAT IS MORE THAN ABC'S AND ONE PLUS ONE EQUALS  TWO.

HOW DO YOU HELP A STUDENT WITH  THAT SOCIAL EMOTIONAL LEARNING THAT THEY HAVE MAYBE LOST A  LITTLE BIT OF THAT SKILL, WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO COME BACK?

>> GABALDON: DEFINITELY.

WE ARE NOTICING THAT STUDENTS  HAVE LOST SOME OF THOSE SOCIAL EMOTIONAL SKILLS JUST IN  RELATING WITH ONE ANOTHER, HOW TO ENGAGE WITH TEACHERS AND  OTHER ADULTS ON CAMPUS.

WE ARE SEEING IT JUST IN ALL  DIFFERENT AREAS IN THE SCHOOL SO WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS WE TRY  TO ENGAGE CLASSROOMS AND SMALL GROUPS AND EVEN LARGE GROUPS  IN TERMS OF, LIKE, TARGETING HOW TO TREAT ONE ANOTHER.

HOW TO BE SAFE ONLINE.

HOW TO FUNCTION IN SCHOOL  BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC HAS DEFINITELY AFFECTED KIDS IN  TERMS OF JUST GENERAL SCHOOL PROCESSES.

YOU KNOW, JUST HAVING -- JUST COMING TO SCHOOL EVERYDAY,  TEACHING THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING PRESENT EVERYDAY.

SO IT IS AN ONGOING PROCESS AND AT MY PARTICULAR SCHOOL, I  WORK AT HIGHLANDS HIGH SCHOOL, WE HAVE A THEME EVERY MONTH  AND WE TRY TO ALWAYS INCLUDE A SOCIAL EMOTIONAL THEME.

THIS MONTH IS SUICIDE PREVENTION MONTH, SO WE ARE  DOING THAT WORK THIS MONTH, BUT, WE ALSO TRY TO TALK ABOUT  HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS WITH STUDENTS AND HOW TO BE A  PARTNER TO A FRIEND OR A ROMANTIC PARTNER OR JUST BE A  POSITIVE FAMILY MEMBER AND STUDENT.

WE ARE RETEACHING THOSE BASIC BEHAVIORS THAT STUDENTS USED  TO HAVE BY THE TIME THEY REACH NINTH GRADE.

WE ARE HAVING TO DO SOME MORE TEAMING AND DEFINITELY REVIEW  WITH THE WHOLE STUDENT POPULATION, REALLY.

>> JEFF: HOW DO THE STUDENTS RESPOND TO THOSE THEMES?

I WAS A BIT OF A PROBLEM CHILD  IN SCHOOL.

THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN  SOMETHING, LIKE, OH, GOODNESS, I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH  THAT.

HOW DO THEY RESPOND GENERALLY?

>> GABALDON: YOU KNOW, IT IS SURPRISING, BUT TEENAGERS ARE  TALKING MORE NOW ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND I THINK SOCIAL  MEDIA -- THAT MIGHT BE A POSITIVE THING ABOUT SOCIAL  MEDIA.

IT IS MORE APPARENT AND OUT IN  THE PUBLIC NOW, ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA AND I THINK  STUDENTS ARE AWARE OF WHAT IT IS TO NOT FEEL WELL.

WE ARE TRYING TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS TO STUDENTS  THAT IT IS OKAY TO NOT BE OKAY.

AND THEY ARE TAKING THAT IN KIND OF NICELY AND IN A  RELAXED FASHION AND I HAVE NOTICED THAT SINCE THE  PANDEMIC STUDENTS ARE LEARNING -- ARE LISTENING MORE  INTENTLY REGARDING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

>> SHELTON: AND THERE IS SOME ACCEPTABILITY AROUND IT TO SAY  I AM NOT OKAY, TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK THAT IS REALLY STARTING TO BE MORE APPARENT.

>> GABALDON: THERE IS A LOT LESS STIGMA AND WE USED TO  HAVE TO ALMOST BEG STUDENTS AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL TO GET  INTO THERAPY BECAUSE WE DO WORK WITH THERAPISTS ON OUR  CAMPUS.

MANY OF OUR SCHOOLS HAVE  COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE  COUNSELORS AND THERAPISTS WHO STUDENTS CAN SEE.

AND NOW STUDENTS ARE ACTUALLY ASKING FOR HELP.

WHICH IS NICE.

AND, THEY ARE RECEIVING IT A  LOT OF THE TIME, SO IT IS POSITIVE.

>> JEFF: I FEEL LIKE WE THINK VULNERABILITY SOMETIMES IN  THIS CONTEXT AS AN INVITATION FOR KIDS TO GET HURT, BUT THE  IDEA OF VULNERABILITY AS BEING ABLE TO CONCEDE OR ADMIT OR  SAY WITHOUT SHAME OR STIGMA THAT I AM NOT OKAY.

HOW DO YOU SEE THAT WITH YOUNGER KIDS AND HOW DO YOU  DEAL WITH THAT KIND OF VULNERABILITY.

>> SHELTON: MUCH IN THE SAME WAY YOU DO.

I DO CLASSROOM LESSONS.

I DO SMALL GROUPS.

I WORK WITH STUDENTS INDIVIDUALLY BUT I DO HEAR IT  THAT THE VULNERABILITY ISN'T NECESSARILY A BAD THING, BUT I  KNOW THAT WHEN STUDENTS FEEL VULNERABLE IN THE MOMENT, IN  THE CLASSROOM, IN FRONT OF THEIR PEERS, THAT IS WHEN WE  SEE BEHAVIORS.

I THINK MAKING SURE WE USE THE  LANGUAGE, CONTINUE TO MAKE IT ACCEPTABLE AND SO THAT THEY  HAVE THE TOOLS TO SPEAK UP AND SAY, I AM NOT DOING OKAY OR I  NEED HELP TODAY, THAT THAT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO SAY AND THEY  DON'T FEEL SHAMED OR BOTHERED BY IT.

>> JEFF: YOU MENTIONED THE THEME FOR HIGHLAND THIS MONTH  IS SUICIDE PREVENTION MONTH.

WE CAN'T HAVE THIS  CONVERSATION WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS.

WHEN I WAS A STUDENT IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND HIGH  SCHOOL, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN INCREDIBLY RARE, ALMOST  UNIMAGINABLE, TO THINK ABOUT A STUDENT BRINGING GUN TO SCHOOL  LET ALONE USING IT ON HIS CLASSMATES OR TEACHERS.

THAT IS A REALITY, UNFORTUNATELY, THAT WE ARE  FACED WITH ALL THE TIME WHEN WE HAVE SEEN IN OUR SCHOOLS  HERE.

HOW, AS A SCHOOL COUNSELOR, DO  YOU WORK THROUGH THAT KIND OF REALITY WITH SOMEBODY WHO  COMES TO YOU AND WANTS TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT?

>> GABALDON: FIRST WE ALWAYS LISTEN TO EACH STUDENT ABOUT  THEIR CONCERNS AND WE KNOW THEY ARE DEALING WITH THAT  FEAR.

IT IS JUST LIKE THIS GENERALIZED FEAR THAT STUDENTS  ARE CARRYING WITH THEM AND IT IS EVEN EVIDENT BY, LIKE,  LITTLE TWITCHES THEY HAVE.

SOME STUDENTS HAVE A HARD TIME  JUST SITTING STILL.

AND THEIR LEG IS ALWAYS  SHAKING OR THEY ARE NEEDING TO HAVE SOME KIND OF STIMULATION.

AND THEN WE JUST SORT OF LIKE MAYBE DIG A LITTLE DEEPER WITH  STUDENTS AND TRY TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT FEAR AND  OFTENTIMES THEY ARE AFRAID OF THE VIOLENCE THAT IS HAPPENING  IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND AT SCHOOL.

BECAUSE, WE NEVER KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, RIGHT, AND WE  HEAR ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS ALL THE TIME.

THERE ARE MORE GUNS OUT THERE THAT ARE READILY AVAILABLE.

STUDENTS KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON, THEY REALLY SO, ESPECIALLY  AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.

SO THERE IS THAT LOW LEVEL OF  FEAR THAT IS CONSTANTLY PRESENT.

BUT WE TRY TO PROCESS IT WITH EACH STUDENT THAT NEEDS TO  TALK ABOUT IT AND REALLY THEY ALL NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT.

BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DEALING WITH IT ON SOME LEVEL.

>> JEFF: IT IS A HORRIBLE THING TO HAVE TO ADAPT TO.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THAT MUST BE LIKE.

I WOULD IMAGINE YOU DON'T DEAL WITH THAT QUITE AS MUCH WITH  YOUNGER KIDS, BUT I'M SURE THEY ARE AWARE OF SOME OF WHAT  IS GOING ON TOO.

>> SHELTON: AND DIFFERENT STUDENTS HAVE DIFFERENT LEVELS  OF ACCESS TO THE NEWS AND WHAT THEIR FAMILIES TALK ABOUT.

I THINK I NOTICED THAT MORE WHEN WE DO DRILLS OR FIRE  DRILLS OR IF SOMETHING UNEXPECTED HAPPENS, YOU DO.

YOU FEEL AN UPTICK OF THE NERVOUS ENERGY IN THE ROOM.

IS THIS SOMETHING SERIOUS OR IS EVERYTHING OKAY?

BUT, I THINK THAT IS WHY WE PRACTICE IT.

THAT IS WHY WE UNFORTUNATELY HAVE TO SO THAT WE CAN DO  THOSE THINGS SMOOTHLY.

BUT THEY DEFINITELY HEAR IT,  THEY DEAL WITH IT AND THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT IS  OVERWHELMING FOR THEM.

AND THAT IS WHEN WE LISTEN,  PROCESS IT WITH THEM AND TRY TO MAKE THEM REALIZE, HELP  THEM REALIZE, THEY ARE SAFE, THAT THEY HAVE LOTS OF ADULTS  AROUND THEM THAT CARE AND WILL DO THEIR BEST TO KEEP THEM SAFE.

>> JEFF: SO, UNFORTUNATELY NOT THE VERY MANY KIDS WATCH OUR  SHOW, BUT A LOT OF THEIR PARENTS AND IN SOME CASES  GRANDPARENTS DO WATCH OUR SHOW.

SO, WHAT ABOUT THE KID WHO IS DOING THE BEST THEY CAN IN  SCHOOL BUT HAS SOME OF THOSE OUTSIDE STRESSORS AT HOME,  WHETHER IT IS A FAMILY MEMBER DEALING WITH BEHAVIORAL HEALTH  ISSUES, A SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER, HOPELESSNESS.

I READ A STORY IN THE JOURNAL  ABOUT THE LARGE NUMBER OF HOMELESS STUDENTS IN APS.

HOW CAN ALL ADULTS, NOT JUST PARENTS, BUT ALL OF US LISTEN  BETTER TO KIDS AND FIND WAYS TO MEET THEM WHERE THEY ARE?

>> SHELTON: I THINK THE KEY IS BEING OPEN TO LISTENING.

HEARING THEM WHERE THEY ARE AT.

DEPENDING ON HOW OLD THEY ARE, THE LANGUAGE MIGHT BE  DIFFERENT WITH YOU MAKING THOSE TIMES TO SIT WITH THEM,  TO LISTEN TO THEM, TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND BE PREPARED TO  HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.

IT REALLY DOES TAKE EVERYONE  BEING ONBOARD AND BEING WILLING, GRANDPARENTS,  PARENTS, REACHING OUT TO THE PEOPLE IN THEIR STUDENT'S  LIFE, THE COUNSELORS, THE TEACHER, TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS  HAPPENING, CAN WE GET SOME SUPPORT FROM THE SCHOOL?

CAN WE GET SOME SUPPORT FROM THE SCHOOL COUNSELOR.

WE HEAR WHAT WE CAN HEAR BUT WE RELY ON THE ADULTS IN THEIR  LIVES REACHING OUT SO THAT WE CAN BRIDGE THROUGH HOME AND  SCHOOL AND BE THE BEST SUPPORT WE CAN.

>> JEFF: BRYAN ARE THERE OTHER STRATEGIES FOR THOSE OF US WHO  ARE NOT SCHOOL AGE KIDS  ANYMORE TO BE THERE FOR KIDS AND TO HELP THEM KIND OF GET  THROUGH THESE REALLY CHALLENGING TIMES?

>> GABALDON: I THINK I AM GOING TO PIGGYBACK OFF DEVON  ON AND WHAT SHE SAID WAS RIGHT ON.

BE AVAILABLE TO HEAR WHAT STUDENTS ARE SAYING.

IT IS OKAY TO ASK THE ROUGH QUESTIONS.

IT IS OKAY TO ASK THE DEEP, DEEP QUESTIONS, TOO, LIKE, ARE  YOU DOING OKAY, MENTALLY?

ARE YOU DOING OKAY  EMOTIONALLY?

ARE YOU HAVING THOUGHTS OF  HURTING YOURSELF OR OTHERS?

THOSE ARE DIFFICULT QUESTIONS  TO ASK BUT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT JUST BY ASKING THOSE  QUESTIONS CAN PREVENT MANY TRAGEDIES.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE JUST TO ASK THE DEEP QUESTIONS IF  YOU'RE CONCERNED OR WORRIED AND EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT  CONCERNED ABOUT A STUDENT, KIDS AND TEENS CAN REALLY  COVER UP THEIR MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.

SO, IT IS GOOD TO DIG A LITTLE DEEPER AND ASK THE QUESTION A  COUPLE OF TIMES, NOT JUST ONCE, BECAUSE OFTENTIMES THEIR  COMMON RESPONSE IS, I AM DOING GOOD, I AM FINE.

ARE YOU REALLY FINE?

BECAUSE I AM NOT FEELING THAT  YOU'RE FINE.

SO IT IS OKAY TO DIG A LITTLE  DEEPER.

AND TRY NOT TO BE TOO  JUDGMENTAL LIKE DEVON SAID, BE READY TO BE OPEN AND AFFIRMING  TO WHAT STUDENTS ARE BRINGING TO YOU.

BECAUSE IT IS A DIFFERENT AGE AND WE ARE ALL PROGRESSING AND  GROWING BUT THEY ARE DEALING WITH MANY ISSUES.

>> SHELTON: AND PERHAPS PIGGYBACKING OFF OF WHAT THEY  ARE WATCHING, WHAT THEY ARE SEEING AND USE THAT AS AN  OPPORTUNITY, LIKE, OH, THAT CHARACTER IS GOING THROUGH  THAT, HAVE YOU EVER DEALT WITH THAT?

DO YOU HAVE FRIENDS GOING THROUGH THIS?

JUST TO USE IT AS AN OPENER FOR THE BIGGER CONVERSATION  AND LET THEM BE COMFORTABLE TO ANSWER.

>> JEFF: I FEEL LIKE THIS HAS BEEN A CONVERSATION FILLED  WITH DIFFICULT QUESTIONS.

I WOULD LOVE TO END ON A NOTE  OF HOPE AND OPTIMISM.

WITHOUT OBVIOUSLY REVEALING  ANY PERSONAL IDENTIFIERS OR A SPECIFIC KID, DEVON, CAN YOU  THINK OF SOME STORIES OR THEMES AND RESILIENCE YOU HAVE  SEEN FROM THE STUDENTS THAT YOU HAVE WORKED WITH OVER THE  COURSE OF THESE REALLY CHALLENGING PAST   COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> SHELTON: AS YOU ASK THAT QUESTION, I FIND MYSELF  SMILING BECAUSE I DO HAVE HOPE.

I CARE SO DEEPLY FOR MY STUDENTS AND I SEE LITTLE  SUCCESSES EVERYDAY.

I DON'T THINK I COULD SAY ONE  SPECIFIC ONE JUST BECAUSE I AM AT A SMALL SCHOOL.

BUT I SEE LITTLE SUCCESSES IN STUDENTS ASKING TO GO TO A  CALMING CENTER INSTEAD OF RUNNING OUT OF THE ROOM OR  INSTEAD OF RIPPING UP PAPER.

I SEE THAT AS SUCCESS THAT WE  CAN BUILD ON, THAT THEY ARE LEARNING TO REGULATE THEIR  BEHAVIOR, SO THAT THEY CAN BE PRESENT TO MAKE UP ANY  ACADEMIC DEFICITS OR SOCIAL DEFICITS, BUT, I AM VERY  HOPEFUL.

I THINK OUR EDUCATORS, OUR  TEACHERS ARE WORKING TIRELESSLY AND IN OUR SCHOOL  WE SEE ACADEMIC GAINS JUST THIS LAST YEAR, WHICH IS  POSITIVE AND WONDERFUL.

AND I SEE SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL  GROWTH.

SO, I THINK, LIKE I SAID IN  THE BEGINNING, THEY WILL BE OKAY, IF WE ALL WORK TOGETHER  AND PUT THIS TIME AND EFFORT INTO IT AS WE HAVE BEEN.

WE JUST NEED TO CONTINUE DOING IT.

>> JEFF: WHAT ARE THE KIDS AT HIGHLANDS DOING TO BE OKAY?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COOL THINGS YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE  FACE OF ALL OF THIS?

>> GABALDON: WELL, AT HIGHLANDS WE ARE REALLY PROUD  BECAUSE OUR GRADUATION RATE HAS BEEN INCREASING OVER THE  PAST FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS, WHICH IS REALLY GOOD, AND WE  ARE JUST SEEING A LOT OF RESILIENCE IN OUR AREA.

BEING THAT WE ARE IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT, THERE  IS A LOT THAT HAPPENS IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT AND NOT  ALL OF IT IS NEGATIVE BUT SOME IS AND KIDS SHOW JUST A  TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESILIENCE BY MAKING IT TO  SCHOOL AND GRADUATING IN FOUR YEARS.

NOT ALL GRADUATE IN FOUR YEARS BUT WE ENCOURAGE STUDENTS,  JUST, IT IS IMPORTANT TO GRADUATE.

IF IT TAKES FIVE, THAT IS FINE.

WE WORK WITH STUDENTS WHO ARE NOT ON TRACK BUT MANY OF OUR  STUDENTS ARE GETTING BACK ON TRACK, AND THEY ARE DOING THE  HARD WORK OF TAKING EXTRA CLASSES IN THE EVENING AND  SUMMER AND MAKING IT TO GRADUATION.

SO, IT IS NOT ALL OF THEM BUT  A LARGE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE AND WE ARE HAPPY ABOUT THAT.

>> JEFF: BRYAN, DEVON, THANKS  FOR COMING AND THANKS FOR ENDING WITH THE HOPE.

>> GABALDON: THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> SHELTON: THANK YOU.

>> JOE SAENZ: WHAT DOES GILA MEAN?

IT'S, YOU KNOW,  TO US IT'S A SPANISH WORD, YOU KNOW, SO IT DOESN'T DO MUCH  TO INSPIRE US.

AND SO WE WE RATHER SUGGESTED THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROTECT THIS COUNTRY, INCLUDE US, BECAUSE WE CAN TELL YOU HOW TO PROTECT IT.

WE CAN TELL YOU THE INTRICACIES OF THE ANIMALS, THE GRASS, THE WATERS, THE  TREES, THE PLANTS, EVERYTHING, HOW THEY FIT TOGETHER AND WHAT  YOU NEED TO CONSIDER AND HOW TO PROTECT IT.

BUT IF YOU'RE  GOING TO BREAK IT UP AND JUST PROTECT PIECES, THAT'S NOT GOING  TO WORK EITHER, BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

>> LOU: THIS FALL, THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER BEGAN  WORKING ON A PROJECT TO PRESERVE A COLONIAL SPANISH DIALECT  SPOKEN ONLY IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

IT’S A HISTORICAL  LANGUAGE THAT THE CENTER SAYS COULD DIE WITHIN THE NEXT 18  YEARS.

THE LEGACY PROJECT IS A THREE-YEAR ARCHIVAL ENDEAVOR  THAT SENDS REPRESENTATIVES INTO NORTHERN NEW MEXICO TO RECORD  AND PRESERVE THE AGING LANGUAGE.

CENTER DIRECTOR ZACK QUINTERO  STOPPED BY OUR STUDIO TO TELL ME ABOUT THE PROJECT.

>> LOU: ZACH, THANKS FOR JOINING US HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> ZACH: IT'S A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> LOU: OF COURSE.

THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL  CENTER IS ABOUT TO BEGIN THE FIRST OF THREE YEARS WORKING  ON THIS LEGACY PROJECT.

WHEN HAD THE SPANISH DIALECT  IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO BEEN SPOKEN MORE COMMONLY AND   WHERE EXACTLY?

>> ZACH: SO THIS REALLY BUILDS AROUND RIO ARRIBA COUNTY, IN  NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, EVERYWHERE FROM RIO ARRIBA  COUNTY TO MORA COUNTY TO TAOS COUNTY.

I SAW AN ARTICLE RECENTLY IN THE LAST FIVE MONTHS ABOUT THE  VILLAGE OF QUESTA AND HOW THEY ARE SPECIALIZING IN A SPECIFIC  DIALECT THAT IS TRADITIONAL SPANISH THAT GOES BACK, YOU  KNOW, 200 YEARS.

AND THIS SPECIFIC TYPE OF  DIALECT HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE IN NEW MEXICO FOR THE LAST 400  YEARS.

WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO DO WITH  THE LEGACY PROJECT IS MAKE SURE WE SERVE AS AN AUDIO AND  DIGITAL REPOSITORY TO COLLECT, PROTECT AND PRESERVE THIS  LANGUAGE FOR THE ENTIRE STATE AND FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY,  FOR THIS MATTER, AND MAKING SURE THAT HUNDREDS OF YEARS  FROM NOW WHEN FOLKS ASK, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT KINDS OF  POINTS OF LANGUAGE AND DIALECTS AND HISTORY, WHERE  SPANISH WAS BEING SPOKEN IN NORTH AMERICA, THEY CAN SAY,  NEW MEXICO.

>> LOU: WHAT IS THE CULTURAL  SIGNIFICANCE OF THE DIALECT IN THAT AREA?

>> ZACH: THE CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE IS IT STARTS WITH  NOT ONLY THE STORY OF WHAT IS BUILT INTO BEING NEW MEXICO AS  IT IS ALONGSIDE OUR INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES, HAVING SHARED  FAMILY MEMBERS, BOTH HISPANIC AND INDIGENOUS.

BEING ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THE LARGER CONCEPT WHAT REALLY  FORMS WHAT WE KNOW NOW AS THE UNITED STATES AND BEING PART  OF THE MULTICULTURAL PIECE OF WHAT WE NOW UNDERSTAND TO BE  THE UNITED STATES.

IT IS POWERFUL ON THE CULTURAL  SIDE TO GATHER THIS INFORMATION AND COLLECT THE  SPECIFIC AUDIO, VIDEO AND HISTORIC DOCUMENTS.

WE JUST RECEIVED, TWO WEEK AGO, YOU KNOW, A HISTORIC  DOCUMENT GOING FROM VALENCIA COUNTY TO SANTA FE COUNTY FROM  1841.

TO DATE THAT FOR YOU, THE  GADSDEN PURCHASE DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THAT.

THE TREATY OF GUADALUPE HIDALGO DID NOT HAPPEN UNTIL  AFTER THAT.

THE STATEHOOD OF NEW MEXICO  DIDN'T EXIST UNTIL AFTER THAT.

1841 IS GOING BACK QUITE FAR.

AND BEING ABLE TO HOUSE THAT HERE AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC  CULTURAL CENTER IS REALLY SPECIAL FOR US.

>> LOU: HOW DID YOU AND THE CULTURAL CENTER DECIDE ON  DEVOTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS SPECIFIC DIALECT?

>> ZACH: IT WAS TWO PARTS.

THE FIRST WAS GOING AROUND TO  HISPANIC COMMUNITIES AND BEING IN GOOD CONVERSATION WITH  COMMUNITY LEADERS AND FOLKS IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF NORTHERN,  CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN RURAL NEW MEXICO WHO ARE SHARING THAT A  LOT OF THEIR LANGUAGE WAS BEING LOST, THAT THEIR  GRANDKIDS COULDN'T UNDERSTAND DIFFERENT KINDS OF WORDS THAT  THEIR GRANDMOTHERS WERE SPEAKING OR THEIR GRANDFATHER.

FIRST FROM THE COMMUNITY, IT CAME TO OUR ATTENTION.

THE SECOND PART WAS THE MEDIA ATTENTION WE STARTED TO SEE  FROM THE NATIONAL SIDE ABOUT SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS SHARING  THAT THIS DIALECT, THIS SPECIFIC FORM OF SPANISH BEING  SPOKEN, WAS GOING TO BE EXTINCT IN 18 YEARS.

WE SAW IT AS A ANTHROPOLOGICAL TIME CLOCK.

WE HAD TO GO ON AN ANTHROPOLOGICAL RESCUE MISSION  HERE TO WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY TO PROTECT THIS  LANGUAGE, THE HISTORY, THIS SPOKEN DIALECT AND PRESERVE  IT.

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT OUR  MISSION IS AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL CENTER.

>> LOU: ARE THERE GAPS IN THE  LANGUAGE NOW AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO FILL THOSE GAPS?

>> ZACH: SURE, THERE IS GAPS AND GOING BACK TO THE STATE'S  HISTORY, THERE HAS BEEN DIFFERENT PRACTICES DONE  SPECIFICALLY TO THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY ABOUT SPOKEN  SPANISH.

MY PARENTS, GOOD EXAMPLE OF  THAT, THEY DELIBERATELY TRIED NOT TO TEACH ME SPANISH  BECAUSE OF HOW THEY WERE TREATED IN PUBLIC SCHOOL,  BECAUSE HOW THEY WERE TREATED IN PRIVATE SECTORS OF THE  ECONOMY AS WELL.

TRYING TO ROOT OUT AND THE  ROOT WORD THAT THEY LIKED TO USE BACK IN THE DAY WAS  ASSIMILATION, WHICH IS A VERY DEROGATORY TERM NOW.

THEY WANTED THEM TO FORGET ALL PARTS OF THEIR HISPANIC  IDENTITY OR LATINA OR LATINO IDENTITY AND MAKE SURE THAT  THEY DIDN'T KNOW ANY OTHER LANGUAGE BUT ENGLISH, SO THERE  WILL BE GAPS THERE.

THERE WILL BE GAPS BUT WHAT WE  ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IS WORK WITH DIFFERENT EXPERTS IN  THE FIELD THAT ARE LINGUISTS, FIRST AND FOREMOST STARTING  FROM THE COMMUNITY THAT SPEAK THIS TRADITIONAL SPANISH THAT  ARE GOING TO THESE INTERVIEWS WITH US, THAT ARE TALKING WITH  COMMUNITY MEMBERS, THAT HAVE TRUST WITHIN THE COMMUNITY,  THAT SHARE WITH THEM AND HELP US BE ABLE TO SHARE THE FULL  CONTEXT AND STORY OF HOW THIS LANGUAGE HAS DEVELOPED.

WE SEE DIFFERENT DIALECTS FROM NORTHEAST NEW MEXICO TO  NORTHWEST NEW MEXICO.

AND EVERYTHING FROM CASTILIAN  SPANISH TO BASK AND IT IS REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE THAT  KIND OF TRADITIONAL SPANISH STILL BE SPOKEN THE WAY IT  WAS, COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE AMERICAS.

IT IS A REALLY SPECIAL WAY FOR US TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT AND  PRESERVE THE FULL DIALECT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

>> LOU: ARE THERE ANY WORDS OR  PHRASES COMMON IN THIS SPECIFIC DIALECT THAT STAND  APART FROM TRADITIONAL SPANISH SPOKEN ELSEWHERE.

>> ZACH: THE MOST COMMON KNOWN ONE I WOULD SAY, JUST FROM THE  QUALITATIVE PIECES WE PULLED TOGETHER IS PLEBE.

A LOT OF YOUR VIEWERS WILL KNOW THIS WORD IF THEY ARE  SPANISH SPEAKING VIEWERS IN THAT SENSE AND NEW MEXICAN, IN  PARTICULAR, IN THE HISPANIC SPEAKING COMMUNITIES.

PLEBE IS A TRANSLATION OF THE  WORD GENTE, ANOTHER PARALLEL WORD OF IT, WHICH IS PEOPLE,  SO OUR PEOPLE, RIGHT?

SO, PLEBE, THAT IS MY PERSON,  THAT IS OUR PEOPLE RIGHT THERE.

THAT IS ONE OF THE TRADITIONAL WORDS WE HAVE COME ACROSS BOTH  IN SOUTHERN, CENTRAL AND NORTHERN NEW MEXICO.

WE SEE TYING TRENDS OF CERTAIN WORDS BEING USED OVER AND OVER  AGAIN.

PLEBE IS ONE OF THEM.

>> LOU: WHO STILL SPEAKS THIS DIALECT AND MORE SPECIFICALLY  WHO DO YOU KNOW THAT WANTS TO SPEAK THIS DIALECT STILL?

>> ZACH: SO THE FOLKS THAT STILL SPEAK THIS DIALECT ARE,  YOU KNOW, MATRIARCHS AND TRUSTED ELDERS OF THE HISPANIC  COMMUNITY.

RELIGIOUS COMMUNITIES AS WELL,  PROTECTED COMMUNITIES, THAT TEND TO BE VERY PRIVATE AND WE  ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO RESPECT THAT PRIVACY THAT HAVE  LEARNED THIS LANGUAGE THROUGH RELIGIOUS SONG, RIGHT, THROUGH  TRADITIONS DURING THE HOLIDAYS, THROUGH CERTAIN  PRAYERS, EVEN ON FRIDAYS, THROUGH SATURDAYS, SUNDAYS,  MONDAYS, CERTAIN PRAYERS OF THE DAY.

THEY LEARNED IT THROUGH RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND.

THEY LEARNED IT THROUGH THEIR COMMUNITY GATHERING  BACKGROUND.

THEY HAVE ALSO LEARNED IT  THROUGH PLANTS.

THROUGH NAMING CERTAIN THINGS  THE WAY THEY ARE NAMED AND SHARING THAT AND THEN CARRYING  THAT OVER TO THE TRADITIONAL LANGUAGE.

>> LOU: HOW ARE YOU AND YOUR TEAM WORKING TO GAIN TRUST IN  THESE COMMUNITIES WHERE DIALECT IS SPOKEN SO THAT YOU  CAN RECORD AND ARCHIVE IT BUT ALSO RESPECT PEOPLE CURRENTLY  SPEAKING IT?

>> ZACH: WELL, IT HELPS FIRST AND FOREMOST TO APPROACH IT  FROM A PLACE OF HUMILITY AND RESPECT AND UNDERSTANDING.

I HAVE AN OBLIGATION AS A NEW MEXICAN, AS A HISPANIC NEW  MEXICAN TO INSURE THAT I LOOK AT THIS TRUE THE EYES THAT IS  RESPECTING THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SPEAKING IT RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT IS TALKING WITH THE COMMUNITY FIRST AND FOREMOST  WHO IS ALREADY SPEAKING IT IN THESE COMMUNITIES,  UNDERSTANDING THE FULL SCOPE OF WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES  HAPPEN AND WHAT EVOLVED IN THAT LANGUAGE AND BEING PART  OF IT SLOWLY AND BEING ABLE TO SHARE THAT WE WANT TO BE ABLE  TO PROTECT THAT SPECIFIC LANGUAGE WITH THEM, SLOWLY.

THAT KIND OF TRUST TAKES TIME BUT IT IS SOMETHING THAT I  FEEL THAT WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO  GATHER OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS IN A VERY POWERFUL WAY.

OUR FIRST VISIT WAS TO FAMILIES IN MORA, NEW MEXICO,  MORA COUNTY.

AND THE TOWN OF MORA AND BEING  ABLE TO TALK TO WITH CERTAIN FAMILY MEMBERS ABOUT THE FORM  OF DIALECT THEY USE WITH THEIR FAMILY, FORM OF DIALECT THEY  USE IN THE COMMUNITY.

THAT IS A HUGE FIRST STEP AND  ALSO WORKING WITH KEY INSTITUTION PARTNERS LIKE UNM  AND NEW MEXICO HIGHLANDS UNIVERSITY, NMSU, NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO COLLEGE, PLACES WHERE PEOPLE SEND THEIR KIDS FROM  NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO HISPANIC STUDENTS  ATTEND THESE AND THEY ARE SPEAKING THIS LANGUAGE STILL.

BUT THEY ARE GOING BACK TO THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS AND  SAYING, HEY, WE HEARD ABOUT A PROJECT THAT IS ABOUT THE WAY  GRANDPA SPEAKS SPANISH OR GRANDMA SPEAKS SPANISH.

OR THE WAY THAT DAD OR MOM SPEAKS SPANISH AND THEY  CONNECT WITH US.

SO, IT IS VERY NATURAL OF WHAT  THE CONNECTION TAKES PLACE BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND US,  BUT IT IS FIRST COMING FROM A PLACE OF RESPECT AND HONORING  THE LANGUAGE AS IT IS BEING SPOKEN IN THAT AREA.

>> LOU: YOU TALK ABOUT A CONNECTION WITH THE COMMUNITY.

HOW WILL THESE FAMILIES WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE PROJECT BE  ABLE TO ACCESS THIS INFORMATION?

OBVIOUSLY PARTS OF NORTHERN NEW MEXICO'S INTERNET ISN'T AS  EASY TO COME BY AS IT IS DOWN HERE.

WILL THERE BE A SPECIFIC EFFORT TO KEEP THESE PEOPLE  INVOLVED COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

>> ZACH: YES.

WE ARE TAKING ACTIVE TRIPS IN  THE FIELD MAKING SURE WE STAY IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH  COMMUNITIES THAT DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESSIBILITY OR HAVE  DIRECT CONVERSATIONS WITH US AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC  CULTURAL CENTER.

WE HAVE REMOTE SITES THAT WE  ARE SETTING UP THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS  IN PARTNERSHIP WITH SOME OF OUR UNIVERSITY INSTITUTIONS.

WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HAVE RE-OCCURRING INTERVIEWS,  RE-OCCURRING DOCUMENT SCANNING SO WE CAN BE ABLE TO SHOW  WORKSHOP PRACTICES TO PRESERVE TRADITIONAL DOCUMENTS.

LIKE I JUST MENTIONED THAT DOCUMENT FROM 1841, THAT WAS  DONATED TO THE CENTER.

THAT WAS FANTASTIC.

WE ARE GRATEFUL ABOUT THOSE KIND OF THINGS BUT WE KNOW  MORE IS OUT THERE.

SO WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SHOW  AND SHARE WITH FELLOW HISPANIC NEW MEXICANS IN DIFFERENT  FOLKS THAT HAVE THESE DOCUMENTS HOW TO PROTECT THEIR  OWN FAMILY HISTORY, HOW TO PROTECT THOSE DOCUMENTS SO  THEY CAN HOLD ON TO IT AND PASS IT ON TO THE NEXT  GENERATION OR IF THEY WANT TO ENTRUST IT TO US TO PROTECT IN  THE CENTER AND THEY COME SEE IT, WE ARE HAPPY TO DO THAT  TOO.

>> LOU: THERE ARE SEVERAL DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES FROM  WHICH AN ORGANIZATION LIKE YOURS CAN APPROACH A SITUATION  LIKE THIS OR A PROJECT LIKE THIS, AS ANTHROPOLOGISTS, AS  HISTORIANS, SOCIAL LINGUISTS.

ARE YOU IN THE CENTER  APPROACHING IT FROM ONE OF THOSE IN PARTICULAR OR IS  THERE VALUE IN APPROACHING IT FROM ALL THREE.

>> ZACH: THERE IS VALUE IN APPROACHING IT FROM ALL THREE.

THE MAIN ONE WE ARE  APPROACHING IT FIRST WITH IS A POINT OF PRIDE AND HONOR FOR  THE COMMUNITY AND MAKING SURE THAT WE SHARE IT FROM THE  COMMUNITY'S PERSPECTIVE FIRST.

AND BEING ABLE TO CONNECT WITH  THEM AND SHARE WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTS, WHAT KIND OF STORY,  WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO FIRST  START OFF THE CONVERSATION WITH.

AND THEN AS THAT GROWS, BE ABLE TO SHARE THE  ANTHROPOLOGICAL PIECE, WHICH YOU TALKED TO THIS, RIGHT?

WHERE DID IT COME FROM ORIGINALLY.

THIS TOWN OVER HERE SPEAKS DIFFERENT FROM THIS TOWN.

WHY IS THAT?

BUILDING THAT NARRATIVE AND  TIMELINE IS THE HISTORY PART AFTER THAT.

AND THEN FOLLOWING STRAIGHT FROM THAT IS THE SOCIOLOGICAL  COMPONENT OF HOW DID THAT INFLUENCE THE MAPPING OF  LANGUAGE THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IN THE STATE?

HOW DID IT INFLUENCE THE MAPPING OF THE UNITED STATES  FOR THAT MATTER AND WHAT IS BEING SPOKEN NOW.

>> LOU: IT IS ONE THING TO ARCHIVE AND PRESERVE A  LANGUAGE BUT THERE IS A CLEAR AND MAJOR VALUE IN THAT ALONE  BUT IS THERE ANY PLAN TO TEACH THIS, TO DISSEMINATE IT TO  PEOPLE SO IT DOES BECOME A BIT MORE COMMON?

>> ZACH: SURE.

SO THE LONG-TERM GOAL THAT WE  HAVE, THERE IS THREE STAGES.

THE SHORT TERM IS, AGAIN,  BUILDING THE COMMUNITY PARTNERS WHICH WE ARE ACTIVELY  DOING NOW AND SUCCESSFULLY CARRYING OUT AND BEING ABLE TO  DO INTERVIEWS AND PULLING TOGETHER RESOURCES FROM  DIFFERENT PARTNERS.

SECOND PART IS BEING ABLE TO  DISPLAY THE INTERIM PIECE OF WHAT WE PULLED TOGETHER, LIKE  THOSE DOCUMENTS, AND EVEN ANOTHER RECORDING WE GOT FROM  CUBA NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE A SERIES OF 15 TAPES THAT WE  RECEIVED ON A TRACK-TO-TRACK PLAYER, A VERY OLD SCHOOL WAY  OF PLAYING AUDIO.

AND IT IS TRADITIONAL SPANISH  BEING SPOKEN IN SANDOVAL COUNTY IN CUBA, NEW MEXICO.

ANOTHER PRECIOUS ARTIFACT THAT WE ARE ENTRUSTED TO PROTECT  AND PRESERVE BY SMITHSONIAN STANDARDS OF CARE.

THAT IS THE MIDTERM PART AND THE LONG-TERM PIECE IS WITH  THESE DOCUMENTS AND WITH THAT AUDIO, IS SERVE IT AS A  REPOSITORY HERE AT THE NATIONAL HISPANIC CULTURAL  CENTER, SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE VISITING, WHETHER IT BE  FELLOW NEW MEXICANS OR VISITORS TO NEW MEXICO THAT  MAY NOT KNOW A LOT ABOUT THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY OR WANT TO  LEARN MORE ABOUT SPANISH SPEAKING COMMUNITIES, HOW IT  KIND OF DEVELOPED, AND VISIT THE NHCC AND BE ABLE TO LISTEN  TO THIS AND MAKE IT  INTERACTIVE AND BE ABLE TO MAP IT OUT AND SHOW THE HISTORY OF  THIS AND BE ABLE TO SHOW THE WORDS AND WHAT THEY MEAN, AND  THE SIGNIFICANCE IT MEANS CULTURALLY, SO THAT PEOPLE  HAVE MORE EDUCATION.

BE ABLE TO COME FROM A PLACE  OF A LOT MORE RESPECT TOWARDS THE HISPANIC COMMUNITY.

>> LOU: ZACH QUINTERO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME  HERE ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> ZACH: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> LOU: NOW, WE CLOSE TONIGHT'S EPISODE FOCUSING  ON SOUTHWEST NEW MEXICO AND THE MIGHTY GILA RIVER.

HERE’S  OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS.

>> LAURA: IN NEW MEXICO WE PUT OUR RIVERS TO WORK.

WE TREAT THEM AS CONVEYANCE CHANNELS FOR WATER WE WANT TO  USE AND WE USE THEM TO DILUTE THE WASTE WE DON'T WANT.

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS IN THE U.S., THIS MINDSET HAS  DOMINATED OUR SOCIETY.

WE THINK ALWAYS OF HOW RIVERS  SERVE US.

RARELY DO WE REMEMBER THAT  RIVERS ARE THEIR OWN CREATURES AND AS LIVING BEINGS  THEMSELVES THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO TEACH US.

WITH FUNDING FROM THE WATER DESK AT THE UNIVERSITY OF  COLORADO BOLDER, THE OUR LAND CREW VISITED THE GILA RIVER  INCLUDING A STRETCH THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHANGED FOREVER IF  NEW MEXICO HAD MOVED FORWARD ON A CONTROVERSIAL DIVERSION.

IN THIS SPECIAL OUR LAND SEGMENT, WE CONSIDER WHAT  LESSONS THE UPPER GILA RIVER HOLD FOR THE FUTURE AND FOR  THE REST OF THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN DOWNSTREAM.

[SOFT MUSIC PLAYING] SOUTHWESTERN NEW MEXICO HAS WITNESSED MANY BATTLES,  INCLUDING OVER THE WATERS OF THE GILA RIVER AND WHO GETS TO  USE THEM.

DOWN IN THIS VALLEY,  DOWNSTREAM OF THE NATION'S FIRST DESIGNATED WILDERNESS  AREA, THE MOST RECENT BATTLE WAS OVER BUILDING A DIVERSION  ON A FREE FLOWING STRETCH OF THE RIVER HIGH IN THE  WATERSHED.

BUT, PEOPLE ALSO LOVED GILA,  EVEN IF IT IS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

>> MS. COOPER: I LOVE SWIMMING IN IT, I LOVE SITTING BY IT,  RUNNING BY IT.

OTHER PEOPLE LOVE IT BECAUSE  OF THE CROPS THEY GROW FROM THE WATER FROM THE RIVER AND  THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO DIVERT MORE WATER AND HAVE  MORE WATER AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

THEY WANTED THAT RELIABILITY.

SO IT HELPED ME TO REMEMBER  THAT WE ALL LOVE THE SAME PLACE JUST FROM DIFFERENT  PERSPECTIVES.

>> LAURA: THIS RIVER IS HOME  TO SO MUCH LIFE.

IT NURTURES FARMLANDS AND  CITIES, WILDLIFE, AND ECOSYSTEMS.

IF WE PAY ATTENTION, IT ALSO HAS A LOT TO TEACH US.

>> MS. COOPER: I LIKE TO CALL IT A REFERENCE RIVER.

A PLACE THAT WE CAN COME AND KIND OF LEARN HOW RIVERS USED  TO WORK BEFORE THEY WERE DAMMED AND OVER-DIVERTED AND  DEWATERED.

>> WE CAN'T REALLY RESTORE RIVERS WITHOUT THERE BE  SOMETHING WATER IN THEM.

I THINK THE IMPORTANCE OF SOME  PERENNIAL FLOW IS REALLY SOMETHING THAT THE GILA SHOWS US.

>> AS WE TRY TO LIVE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE AND THIS  INCREASED RANGE OF FLOWS WE ARE GOING TO HAVE EVEN BIGGER  FLOODS AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE EVEN LOWER FLOWS AND  LONGER PERIODS OF LOW FLOWS.

IT IS DURING THOSE LOW FLOW  PERIODS THAT PEOPLE START THINKING WE CAN, LIKE, MOVE  OUR WAY BACK INTO THE FLOODPLAIN AND THAT HAS  HAPPENED IN THIS VALLEY.

AND THEN THE FLOODS COME AND  PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OOPS, YES, BACK TO THE EDGES.

>> LAURA: THE GILA IS A TRIBUTARY OF THE COLORADO  RIVER WHERE FURTHER DOWNSTREAM  MAJOR CITIES AND BIG IRRIGATION DISTRICTS VIE FOR  WATER FROM THE COLORADO'S DECLINING FLOWS AND DROPPING  RESERVOIRS.

HERE HIGH IN THE WATERSHED,  THE GILA OFFERS SOMETHING ELSE.

WILDNESS, UNPREDICTABILITY, A GLIMPSE OF THE PAST AND A MAP  FOR THE FUTURE.

BEFORE WHITE SETTLERS STARTED  FARMING ALONG THE GILA, THIS WAS APACHE LAND.

>> MR. SAENZ: WE REFER TO IT  AS NDE BEHAN.

[SPEAKING APACHE] >> LAURA: GROWING UP JOE SAENZ' MOTHER TAUGHT HIM ABOUT WATER.

>> MR. SAENZ: SHE WOULD TALK ABOUT WATER AS A SPIRIT, LIKE  MY GRANDFATHER USED TO TALK ABOUT TREES LIKE THEY WERE  PEOPLE, YOU KNOW.

EVEN THOUGH WE LIVE IN THE KIND OF COUNTRY THAT WE LIVE  IN, AS THE DIALOGUE GOES, WE HAD HYDROLOGISTS, WE HAD  PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTOOD WATER AND WHERE IT WAS, HOW TO GET  IT, WHAT WAS GOOD, WHAT WAS NOT.

AND SO WATER HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THOSE ELEMENTS THAT  SHOULD BE IN BALANCE WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.

>> LAURA: NOW MORE THAN EVER, WE NEED TO FIND BALANCE.

HERE THERE IS STILL A PLACE TO LEARN.

>> MR. SAENZ: WHAT DOES GILA MEAN, TO US IT'S A SPANISH  WORD, YOU KNOW, BUT IT DOESN'T DO MUCH TO INSPIRE US, SO WE  RATHER SUGGESTED THAT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO PROTECT THIS  COUNTRY, INCLUDE US, BECAUSE WE CAN TELL YOU HOW TO PROTECT  IT.

WE CAN TELL YOU THE INTRICACIES OF THE ANIMALS,  THE GRASS, THE WATERS, THE TREES, THE PLANTS, EVERYTHING,  HOW THEY FIT TOGETHER AND WHAT  YOU NEED TO CONSIDER AND HOW TO PROTECT IT, BUT IF YOU'RE  GOING TO BREAK IT UP AND JUST PROTECT PIECES, THAT IS NOT  GOING TO WORK EITHER BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

>> LAURA: BREAKING A RIVER APART FROM ITS LAND, DIVIDING  A RIVER INTO STRETCHES, SPLITTING THE PARTS OF A WHOLE  INTO WHATEVER HUMANS WANT AT THE MOMENT, THAT DOESN'T WORK.

OR AT LEAST IT DOESN'T WORK FOR LONG.

>> MR. SAENZ: I ASKED MY ELDERS, I ASKED THEM, CAN YOU  TELL ME ABOUT WHAT THIS PLACE WAS CALLED, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE  SOME OF THOSE NAMES WE HAVE LOST FROM HOW WE WERE  SCATTERED FROM THIS COUNTRY, WE HAVE LOST THOSE.

THEY THEMSELVES ASKED AROUND TO OTHER ELDERS AND THE  CLOSEST THING WHAT HE COULD COME TO THAT THEY SHARED WITH  ME WAS THAT AT ONE POINT THEY MAY HAVE REFERRED TO THE GILA  AND THIS REGION AS HOOTH LE, A TERM THAT DESCRIBES THE  BEGINNING WHERE EVERYTHING EMANATES FROM, THE START.

SO IT TIES IN WITH OUR CREATION STORIES,   THE RIVER ITSELF.

>> LAURA: SAENZ SAYS THAT FOR THE APACHE, CULTURE REVOLVES  AROUND CHANGE, BUT SO MANY OF THE CHANGES HE SEES TODAY  AROUND HIS HOME AND WHEN HE LEADS OUTFITTING TRIPS INTO  THE GILA, THOSE ARE DIFFERENT.

>> MR. SAENZ: I HAVE NOTICED IN REALTIME HERE, I MEAN, FOR  ME TO HAVE GROWN UP IN A TIME WHEN YOU COULD LITERALLY SET  YOUR CLOCK TO SOME THINGS.

YOU CAN'T REALLY DO THAT  ANYMORE.

WHAT I STARTED TO NOTICE WAS  THE VULTURES AND THE EAGLES.

IT USED TO ALWAYS BE LIKE  CLOCK WORK, APRIL 1 AND NOVEMBER 1, THEY SWITCHED.

THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THEY ARE A WEEK OFF.

YOU KNOW.

NO BIG DEAL, NOBODY NOTICES  THAT, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SOME PEOPLE DO.

I STARTED TO SEE THE WEATHER CHANGE YOU KNOW 15 YEARS AGO  WHERE IT WAS LIKE, THIS CAN'T BE DROUGHT.

THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE HERE.

FOR THE LAST 200 YEARS AMERICA  HAS BEEN PROGRESSING TO A POINT THAT LITERALLY IT IS  KILLING ITSELF.

AND WHEN PEOPLE ASK, WHAT IS  HAPPENING?

WHAT ARE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

IT IS KIND OF TOUGH, BECAUSE, MY RESPONSE IS ALWAYS, WE  TRIED 500 YEARS AGO TO TELL YOU DON'T DO THIS.

WE TOLD YOU 300 YEARS AGO, WE TOLD YOU 200 YEARS AGO.

AND WHEN WE TOLD YOU 200 YEARS AGO, YOU PUT US IN JAIL.

AND SO YOU'RE NOT LISTENING TO THE CHANGE.

>> LAURA: TO SURVIVE THIS WARMING WORLD WITH ITS  DROUGHTS AND FIRES AND FLOODS, WE NEED TO CHANGE, AND WE CAN  START BY LISTENING TO THE GILA.

>> SAENZ: TO ME, TO US, THE RIVER IS BASICALLY TELLING US  JOIN ME.

DON'T TRY TO STOP ME.

DON'T TRY TO CHANGE ME.

JOIN ME AND LIVE WITH HOW I  CHANGE.

THERE ARE REASONS FOR THOSE  FLOODS.

THERE ARE REASONS FOR TIMES  WHEN THE RIVERS RUN SLOW.

THERE IS REASONS FOR ALL OF  THAT AND SO THOSE CHANGES NEED TO HAPPEN.

>> LOU: THANKS TO LAURA, OUR PRODUCTION TEAM AND PRODUCTION  MANAGER ANTONY LOSTETTER FOR ALL OF THEIR GREAT WORK  ON THAT PIECE.

AND AS ALWAYS  THANK YOU FOR WATCHING WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS  PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.