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Fond of Greater Cleveland, Inc.. Good afternoon and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It's Thursday, November 2nd.

And I'm Kristen Baird Adams, president of the City Club Board of Directors.

On behalf of City Club CEO Dan Moulthrop, the staff and board, it's my pleasure to welcome you to today's forum, the annual state of the city, the state annual state of downtown.

Earlier this year, a comprehensive plan reimagined in Cleveland was unveiled to accelerate the transformation of downtown Cleveland from a traditional 9 to 5 business district to a diverse, vibrant, mixed use neighborhood led by downtown Cleveland and the city of Cleveland and Mayor Justin Bibb.

This ambitious plan details near-term and longer term plans to tackle lingering post-pandemic challenges facing downtown Cleveland and the nation's other city centers across the nation.

And to accelerate the realization of opportunities to transform the central business district into a community business district, a destination that is equally attractive to residents, employers, workers and visitors.

The plan includes completion of a retail strategic plan to analyze downtown's current retail inventory, identify barriers to attracting retailers, implement a targeted tenant attraction and retention strategy, and more.

This summer at the City Club.

The City Club launch touched on some of these efforts at a number of our forums on Public Square.

And just last night a packed audience at The Happy Dog learned more about the plan to develop a north coast lakefront.

The common denominator.

Throughout each of these conversations, we all want to know what the future of our downtown will look like and what it will take to get us there.

Joining us today to provide their insights and perspectives on what's ahead for downtown Cleveland are Kate Borders, board chair for the International Downtown Association and recently appointed president of University Circle Inc, Michael Deemer, president and CEO of Downtown Cleveland, and Larisa Ortiz managing director of public nonprofit solutions at Streetsense, the organization that helped shaped downtown Cleveland's retail strategic plan.

Moderating the conversation today is Nathan Kelly, president and managing director of Cushman Wakefield Cresco Real Estate.

If you have a question for our speakers, you can text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

And the City Club staff will do its best to work it into the second half of the program.

Members, friends and guests of the City Club of Cleveland, please join me in welcoming today's speakers.

Thank you very much, Chris.

I think a great way to start this conversation is to ask you Downtown Deemer, what is the state of downtown?

Well, well, thank you, Nate.

And I want to thank once again the City Club for hosting State of Downtown.

Once again, thank our friends at PNC for sponsoring State of Downtown.

Once again, it's been a terrific partnership over the years.

I want to thank two of my favorite people from the International Downtown Association Network, Larissa and Kate Street Sense.

As a group that I've wanted to work with for many years, I had the opportunity to meet Larissa just last year as part of an IDA program and delighted to have that opportunity now and to have you here today.

And Kate, I got the call earlier this year that Kate was going to be coming to Cleveland to take the job at University Circle.

Ed, I'm not exaggerating when I say that.

If I could have handpicked anybody in the International Downtown Association Network to come to Cleveland to help us lead and grow the city, Kate would have been it.

So the fact that you're here in Cleveland and part of this panel, I'm very grateful for and Nate, you've been a terrific partner over the years.

I thank you for moderating today.

You had a question, right?

Yeah.

Tell us about downtown.

The state of downtown, I would say, is resilient and rising.

We are not out of the woods.

We are we still have our fair share of challenges, as all downtowns do coming out of the pandemic.

But I think that the data tells us that we are better positioned than most cities and most downtowns coming out of the pandemic to confront those challenges.

And as was alluded to in the opening remarks, we've got a vision and a plan to help us meet those challenges.

And let me elaborate a little bit on what the data is telling us as we look at the state of downtown right now.

We have more people living in downtown Cleveland than we did before the pandemic.

In September, we had our best month of foot in visitor traffic.

Since we've had since September of 2019, we've recovered 89% of our visitors.

We had over 4 million visitors to downtown Cleveland in the month of September alone.

So again, it was the best month we've had since September of 2019.

As we look at the rate of return of our workforce, just over 68% of our overall downtown workforce had returned to downtown in the month of September.

That puts us just above the national median and national average.

So I think that the data tells us that we're trending in the right direction.

We are also national leaders in office conversions.

We CBRE just published a report a couple of weeks ago showing that we're number one in the country in office conversions.

There are cities and downtowns across the country trying to figure out what to do with an oversupply of office space.

We've got the playbook in downtown Cleveland.

Other cities are trying to figure out that puts us a big step ahead.

And then finally, we have a vision and plan.

Kristin, in her opening remarks, talked a little bit about the reimagining downtown plan that Mayor Bibb launched earlier this year.

That plan really charts a course for us to follow over the next 1 to 3 years to complete a transformation of downtown that began years ago.

But we know we need to accelerate that completion of transforming from 9 to 5 central business district to truly vibrant model neighborhood.

And a big piece of that plan was to create a retail strategy.

We're releasing that strategy today.

Street Sense was our lead partner in creating that strategy.

Looking forward to talking with all of you and about the plan today.

But more importantly, working with all of you to implement and execute the Reimagining Downtown Vision and our retail strategy.

I want to follow up a little bit on why is retail such an important part of your plan for downtown?

Well, I think we know that coming out of the pandemic, we need to create a a set of great experiences in downtown Cleveland that draws people back in, whether that's visitors, residents or workers.

We need to create an experience in downtown Cleveland that draws people away from remote work, that draws people away from online retail, that draws people away from all of the virtual entertainment options that we have today.

What downtowns thrive and do best is bringing people together to live, work and play.

And we know if we're creating a great pedestrian experience that's got the amenities for visitors, residents and office workers in the retail environment is so integral to the downtown experience.

We knew that that was just a critical, essential place for us to start.

Kate, you come from a different perspective, newish to Cleveland, chair of the International Downtown Association and Mike just talked about how were beating a lot of the other downtowns right now in many ways.

Can you talk a little bit about what you see other downtowns current state is maybe where they're going.

Absolutely.

And I love I'm going to start calling him Downtown Diemer from now on.

So this is a thing?

I think so.

Downtowns have had this history of being the location that everyone feels ownership around and I think that played out for us.

It has always played out, right.

If there are protests there in your downtowns, when people think of downtown as your living room, so they come to this this urban center or for every purpose that is celebratory is when they want to contest something.

Usually it's in a downtown.

And so we've watched our downtowns kind of morph through all these different iterations.

And then the people that do the work like we do have been a part of that for for many, many years.

And what I find interesting is that all of us downtown ers, we were raised ready for the fight.

So I mean, if you think about anything that our downtowns experience, if you have street car or don't have street car, you're implementing Streetcar, you're downtown or it's going to be part of that transition.

And right, maybe you have a major Republican convention come to town and so you have to be ready for that event to take place.

Maybe you have a transition around your lakefront or something like that.

We've all been prepping for being prepared to handle changes, challenges on a regular basis.

And so I often thought, like when we were in the middle of a pandemic, which we are still, it will take many, many years to figure out how that, you know, the depth of that and the ripple effect of that and what that will do to downtowns.

And it's different for every single downtown.

But I want everyone to recognize that the people that are the downtown ers were prepared for that.

We are used to taking on extraordinary challenges in ways that maybe many fields don't.

And so, you know, I've known these too, for many years, and I know the way they think and the way they are creative and ready to dig in.

And even settings like this, I mean, we're not used to being called the experts.

We're used to being the people that roll up our sleeves, right?

So getting in and doing the work is what we are prepared to do.

And I see that in most downtowns that I work with and I think it's wonderful how people are rebounding.

It's very different across the country.

This conversation around office conversions, what the federal government is doing to step in and help with much of this work is really, really imperative.

And then here, being in Cleveland myself, now in University Circle, it's a very different environment.

It's not exactly the downtown, but it's a partner.

I think people have called us th So here we are in this district.

I am in this district that is really founded on larger institute tions that have not struggled in the same way that downtowns do.

Because we don't have a lot of office.

We have all of these places where people have to be to show up to work every day.

So it's just a different recovery, but nonetheless a recovery.

So I think we're all there.

I think we're all recovering at different rates.

But there is not a downtown that I can think of that is going to die.

Right.

Like it will be okay.

We will come through this and that's really important.

When it comes to rolling up your sleeves and doing the work, continuing that work.

Larissa, with a street sense report that's coming out today, what is that report look like and what is the direction of the work that we're going to be doing on retail?

Sure.

You know, I think I sort of begin with this acknowledgment that the world has changed.

Cleveland is no different.

We have seen changes and effectively what were central business districts that now have to be much more than that.

And downtown Cleveland has been moving in that direction, which is great news.

And I think what we are doing with this plan is doubling down and recognizing that, you know, as we acknowledge some of the implications of hybrid work and for Cleveland, that means a loss of about 100,000 square feet of retail that can be supported because those people are not here to spend money.

We want to fill that gap with others, people who live here, people who are visiting.

Those two things in particular, I think drive the elements of this plan.

So how do we make sure that the people who live here and had and will continue to live here and the developers who are making decisions about investing in downtown, this becomes a better value proposition than it ever was before.

So this is about making sure downtown is seen as a neighborhood as much as it's seen as downtown, that it's not a downtown business district, it's a downtown social district, it is a neighborhood.

And the most resilient communities during COVID and post-COVID are those that had a really great balance of people who work and live and visit.

And I think that's the direction of this plan at its core.

Would you give us some details about what's in that plan that you think we need to hear about?

Sure.

You know, one of the areas that we really looked into and I will say that this is a plan for an organization, a special improvement district.

It's not a plan for a city.

It's not a plan for a private developer.

We have to acknowledge the role that they play as a convener, a facilitator and a supporter.

Right.

So the things in there are in there lean specifically.

What does that mean?

Advocating for the social infrastructure that will continue to make this a wonderful place to live.

That means, you know, the playgrounds, the the public spaces, the dog parks, the things that draw people outside of their homes because you can't walk your dog in your home.

I guess maybe you can.

But, you know, you need you need that when you walk out and do those things, you're buying a cup of coffee.

You're you're going out, you're meeting friends that actually spurs activity in its Spurs spending.

So it may seem strange to say that social infrastructure is a retail strategy, but it is.

And it's a place where an organization like Downtown Cleveland can actually roll up their sleeves and work with their public partners and say there's a lot, there's a space, let's turn that into something that generates activity and visitation.

So I think that's a real key element to this plan.

You know, the other is, you know, we acknowledge you have to lean in and support things that are already in the works.

You know, a plan that in this plan has 15 recommendations.

A number of them are including the land bridge, for instance.

A number of them are already sort of in the works.

Where should this organization really push and advocate and say, we want to be on that team to make sure it happens?

Because we acknowledge it's so key to seeming, you know, and bringing together all these disparate pieces that make downtown that are in all different places and making it feel like one place.

So I think those are sort of two key elements.

Couple of things that you mentioned.

The, you know, DCA isn't necessarily in charge of, you know, around infrastructure and investment.

And sometimes we talk about investing in downtown or whether it's our living room or a neighborhood when we compare it to other neighborhoods, kind of a zero sum game.

Why is downtown important to other neighborhoods?

Why is downtown important to the city?

I'll jump in there and hope my my colleague, you do as well.

I mean, I you know, first of all, really look at downtown Cleveland as a big and growing neighborhood.

I don't really look at downtown as being in competition with the neighborhoods across the city.

It's embedded in our vision statement for downtown Cleveland, Inc. You know, we envision downtown Cleveland as a vibrant and welcoming city center that weaves together the downtown districts and the surrounding neighborhoods into a really seamless urban fabric that's greater than the sum of its parts.

It's in our identity as an organization and as I think about the role that that downtown Cleveland as a place plays relative to the rest of the city, in the other neighborhoods across the city, you know, we we provide a critical tax base for the city of Cleveland, for the services that are provided in neighborhoods, including downtown across the entire city.

We represent just under 3% of the city's landmass.

But over half of the income tax revenue and about a quarter of the total property value within the city.

We are a source of jobs that are readily accessible to people who may not own an automobile.

It we're we're the original transit oriented development.

So people can access jobs in downtown Cleveland.

The largest concentration of jobs is before the pandemic in the state of Ohio, very easily they can walk, they can take transit, they can bike, they can they can ride share.

They don't necessarily need to access jobs in downtown by driving alone.

And then finally, I think downtown matters to not just the neighborhoods but the entire region, because whether you're spending time in downtown Cleveland or not, you know, the skyline of downtown, the experience of downtown Cleveland is what attracts people, jobs and talent to this region, whether whether you as individuals are spending time here or not, when a business or an individual is thinking about making an investment in Cleveland, in northeast Ohio, they're looking at what's going on in downtown.

Is that downtown vibrant and strong.

It matters and makes a difference.

And then, you know, I think we we do have a responsibility to make sure that we're we're creating social and physical and economic connections between downtown and the surrounding neighborhoods and the rest of the city, you know, downtown Cleveland key.

And that should not be an island of any kind in the city.

We're we're an essential part of what should be a really seamless urban fabric that stretches across the city.

Is that neighborhood downtown dynamic replicated in other cities.

What talk a little bit about that if there is a push and pull or competition?

I think there always is.

I think there are people who wish that more money was spent in their neighborhoods.

And you'll hear this comment oftentimes from elected officials that they'll get constituents saying, why didn't we get that?

I mean, there just feels like there's this us and them sometimes in certain cities.

But your point about the tax base, I mean, if you think about the opposite of a thriving downtown, I mean, usually believe we talk about how downtowns punch well above their weight.

Right.

So, I mean, the square mileage of the downtown, the number of hotel beds in a downtown and the way that's like putting money into that that dollar stream.

The opposite would be imagine if the neighborhoods had to support the downtown, if the downtown was weak and there was no money coming in and all of the neighborhoods from a tax base had to be the supporter for that huge engine.

It would cripple a city.

So it can it could be very negative.

And when I was in downtown Fresno, we had that conversation all the time because residents didn't want there to be an investment in downtown Fresno.

And we actually had to rewrite the story and say, if we don't do this, look at the devastation.

It will call city wide.

Right, the ripple effects from a cost perspective.

So and that's just the business side of the conversation, not to mention the brand identity.

Even neighbors will still send postcards with their downtowns.

Images, right.

Like they're not going to send a postcard with an image of your street corner where you live.

Right.

That's not the identity that draws people to your place.

Or so I'm interested in your take on the same question.

Yeah.

You know, in looking at a downtown Cleveland, I think we were we were even surprised at the degree to which visitation drives so much economic activity.

70% of spending in downtown actually comes from the 15.7 million visitors that are here every year.

That visitation we cannot take for granted.

And it happens because you have assets, entertainment and cultural assets that can only exist in an environment like this.

And so cultivating and making sure that experience is the best experience that we can possibly offer can only help the region because that money is actually then spread through the employment that occurs, the small businesses that are receiving at the receiving end of that spending.

So I think we have to remember this is an ecosystem.

Both need each other to coexist.

I had a preview of the plan because I had the privilege of reading it.

And one of the things that you say is to focus on our assets.

And as outsiders are more interested in the two of you, what is your view on our best assets downtown, the lake?

I mean, access to the lake?

I mean, how many downtowns don't have water?

I mean, I think that's huge.

And Playhouse Square, where we are right now, I think that's a huge asset is just moving here.

And then the diversity of the experiences that I, I think are incredible in downtown.

Yeah, I agree.

Those differentiators are so critical.

We, you know, when you think about even within Cleveland, those offerings make living in downtown and even a special, more special place.

While there's been a lot of talk about lakefront development now and undoubtedly that's going to require a lot of investment, a lot of even organizational left.

How should we be considering the lakefront, anticipating development there and how it relates to downtown?

Well, I'll jump in with the perspective of the retail strategy that Street Sense put together, where one of the 15 recommendations was to make sure that we strengthen the connections between downtown and the lakefront and that we really we really I mean, think about it just said, you know, one of our great differentiators, one of our great assets is the Lake.

We're disconnected from the lake in downtown.

But if you if you're visiting downtown, you live here, you work here.

The lake is so close, but so far away.

And it's it's probably not really viewed as part of the the amenity package of of being in downtown.

And it should be, you know, so as I think about it from a downtown Cleveland perspective, that that connectivity between the core in both shores, the riverfront and lakefront, but we're talking specifically about the lakefront now, is is very, very important.

I think we need to be very thoughtful and planful and strategic about the amount and type of development that we try to cultivate on the lakefront, because we do need to not just maintain but increase the strength of the core.

So in that shore to core to shore conversation that we're having as a as a community, we need to make sure that the connections that we're creating to the waterfronts are strengthening and reinforcing the vitality of the core so that we can continue to strengthen and grow that economic engine that is so important to the city services and the brand identity and the business and job attraction that we're all focused on.

I'll I'll take that one step further.

Further, and maybe because I'm an outsider, can be a little more provocative if we do not create those connections and we develop the lakefront, it will be in competition with downtown because you will be forcing people to choose.

We want to make sure that we create a wonderful, seamless connection so we have one downtown.

And in fact, I think that's one of the takeaways that I had this experience where, you know what?

If folks, folks communicated to us that, you know, downtown has 20,000 residents, when you experience it as an outsider and and as a potential tenant who's looking to come downtown, you actually experience it as like these distinct nodes that don't really work together as well as they should.

They're sort of in close proximity, but not quite.

You know, we have to fix those linkages and the connection to the lakefront is part of that.

And add to the strength in this conversation around playing to the strengths.

I think so many of them are in this room.

I mean, this is a city that is about collaboration.

And there are so many different organizations that are doing incredible work.

And one of the strengths is that to your point, all of these I haven't read the plan yet.

I'm excited to read the plan, but I haven't read it.

But I'm assuming that not all of the work should be on the shoulders of downtown Cleveland.

Right.

So the strength is that all of these institutions can come together and collaborate on achieving these goals.

And I mean, it's really important to play to your strengths as a place and as an organization and know the work that is best, best served for you to do.

Yeah.

No, I think it's a it's a really insightful way of looking at the body of work, of building a downtown in the context of this plan.

But I think it's also, you know, how we all go about our work as downtown leaders in our respective spheres.

One of the things I loved about the perspective that Larissa's organization brought to our work is that we really distinguish between the things that we can control as an organization and those things that we can influence and as you all see, this retail strategy that is you'll all get to read about this afternoon as it's released, you know, we really try to distinguish between those things that we can really we can really control as an organization and the things that we're going to need to work with all of you on all of our partners to influence and deliver on what downtown really needs.

So as we talk about this strategy, it is it it is not all about what our organization is going to do.

It's going to be about what downtown needs in order to thrive, to complete that transformation.

And from 9 to 5 central business district to a truly vibrant neighborhood, and do it quickly with the support and collaboration of all of you.

Before we shift on and start taking questions from our audience today, I want to put you on the spot.

You're not in charge of everything, but there are certain things that you are in charge of that you're going to take on as goals for you in 2024.

Give us one or two that you're going to hit out of the ballpark.

Oh.

That's pressure.

Well, I think what I'm most excited about with the retail strategy in our our role and working with all the partners that implement reimagining Downtown is the focus on the core and the focus on improving the public realm.

I think we've got opportunities in 2024 to really make our public spaces, our parks, our streets, our sidewalks, our alleys, special places with programing, with art, with color, with sound, with lighting.

I think you're going to see all of those things in 2024.

We're going to be doing some of them will be partnering with other organizations.

And some of them, I think, really moving the needle on, enlivening the experience of our public realm in 2024 is going to be essential.

And I think we've got a terrific opportunity to do it.

And I want to I want to close by saying, you know, one of the things that I think we really have it as an asset in Cleveland now that we probably don't fully appreciate just yet, is we have tremendous alignment in our leadership right now in this community.

That doesn't always happen.

And as I look around the room, I see a lot of folks who have been around Cleveland for a long time.

You know what I'm talking about?

We don't always have alignment between the civic leadership, the elected leadership, the business leadership we have that now is, as you look at our alignment around building a really vibrant, mixed use neighborhood in downtown Cleveland, we're speaking that language at downtown Cleveland, Inc, our regional chamber, our destination marketing organization, our city council, our county council, our mayor, our county executive, our higher education leaders.

We're all aligned around the type of place that we need our city's core to be, that we need our downtown to be.

And we've got to take full advantage of that opportunity.

Right now, there are challenges we don't always see eye to eye.

There are going to be disagreements, but the alignment, the leadership and a level of collaboration we have right now is something we cannot afford to squander.

We've got a great opportunity and I'm excited about it right.

Begin the audience Q&A.

I'm Kristen Baird Adams, president of the City Club Board of directors for our Live Stream audience.

You are joining us for the annual state of downtown.

You're on stage with us, our skateboarders board chair for the International Downtown Association and president of Cleveland's University Circle Inc. Michael Deemer, president and CEO of Downtown Cleveland Larissa, or its managing partner of Managing Director of public nonprofit solutions at Street Sense, and Nathan Kelley, President of Cushman and Wakefield Real Estate.

We welcome questions from everyone City Club members, guests and those joining us via our live stream at City Club dot org.

If you'd like to text a question, please text it to 3305415794.

That's 3305415794.

Maybe we have our first question please.

Hello.

This question is specifically for Kate.

Does downtown Cleveland currently remind you of any downtowns you've worked with or study in the past?

And if yes, how is that downtown doing now?

No pressure.

The first thing that I thought of actually coming here was I used to work in downtown Milwaukee and there's a lot of Midwest similarities.

Also access to water and Milwaukee's doing great.

So, I mean, I think a lot of these cities around the Midwest have similar challenges and I love to see how they're faring.

Good afternoon, Tim.

Help from the YMCA and a leadership classmate.

Of downtown Deemer, for sure.

You know.

Good question.

And I know I was a resident of downtown renter for four years in downtown.

And that seems to be what we have.

When you talk about 20,000 residents of downtown, predominantly renters, how stable is that?

And should should we be.

Doing something to create.

More.

Ownership in downtown?

Yeah, I really appreciate the question, particularly coming from the the best leadership Cleveland class ever inside of to paint a picture for everybody.

You know, we've got about just over 20,000 residents in downtown.

Our residential population skews heavily towards renters.

We completed a a downtown housing study earlier this year, and we have somewhere around 10,000 rental units in downtown, probably about 450 condos and townhomes.

And I think we have clear demand for more for sale housing when when we provide that product to the market, it's successful.

You know, we have townhomes going up at East 13th and Superior that are doing very, very well.

Amran recently converted a couple of floors of office space into condominiums.

Those have sold extremely, extremely well.

But we need to scale that.

And I know we have developers, we have a city administration that is very interested in growing more for sale opportunities.

And I think as we're coming out of the pandemic, growing the amenity base, working with our state legislature and our local officials, and removing some policy barriers to developing more for sale, housing in urban areas will be very, very important and continuing to work with our banking community to show that where for sale housing is being built in downtown, it's successful.

So I think we've got some good pilot projects that we can work with partners to bring to scale.

But I think it's very, very important to stabilizing the downtown population in the long term.

And if I could just add, whether it's for sale or rental and this is hot off the presses on Friday, the White House issued a press release that they're pivoting and focusing D.O.D.

dot money and HUD money.

So housing and transportation on downtown's an office to residential conversions.

And so while the real estate market you know and in many case development because of high interest rates has almost ground to a halt.

You know, this is the glimmer of opportunity for the development community because subsidies, as we know, are often required for this work.

And and we want and it seems like there's an opportunity for that to begin flowing to our cities and in particular, our downtowns.

Let's go to our next question, Jeremy.

Hi, I'm Jeremy Parris with The Raven Group.

I saw Nate Grimace a little when I stood up.

I'm going to because we're friends and new friends.

I want to provoke you for just a second on pivoting from your idea of alignment in the sort of future of downtowns and the waterfront.

I'm trying to think over the rainbow a little bit.

We've got Cleveland.

We know it's a climate resilient place and how do we build to that future?

And we also know we're still combating redlining and how do we build shared prosperity in a community that has often sort of had a have and have not.

So can you paint us a little bit of a picture of if you're successful and taking me on and sort of how we attach to the waterfront, lakefront and riverfront?

What does Cleveland look like 25 years from now as sort of one of the great cities?

How do we get there?

Easy, simple.

Quick in 30 seconds or less.

Right.

I think we have, I think, a tremendous opportunity in downtown Cleveland to to be the model and hub of a place that really figures it out.

We we have a in a downtown that, relatively speaking, is more affordable than most.

We've got opportunities to create better and stronger economic and physical connections in the greater downtown area.

You know, we're very focused in our work on ensuring that downtown is a place that is not just clean and safe, but clean, safe and welcoming to all.

And that we're in the the entire city, the entire region, so that everyone feels like downtown is for them.

And so as I think about, you know, 25 years from now what this looks like, we're a very bright green, colorful, well connected city center that, you know, the lines between downtown and university circular blurred.

We're not we're not to ends of a dumbbell it's it's a seamless urban fabric from the center to the east, from the center to the west.

And that we've got a a truly well connected, vibrant and inclusive and inclusive place.

And I think we've got that opportunity in front of us right now.

This this alignment of leadership I talked about, though, is not going to last forever.

We can point to other cities that we've looked to in the last several years where we wanted the type of alignment that a city like Pittsburgh had.

We wanted the type of alignment that a city like Columbus had in their in their civic leadership.

We have that now.

If we don't squander it, we can we can be the city we want to be in 25 years.

Can I add one little thing to that?

I think that our downtowns are challenged now.

And in particular, I mean, as you think about the next 25 years in maintaining authenticity, I mean, so often because we have access to all the best practices and we get to share knowledge and we meet up and we, you know, when we travel and we have the Internet, we see everything that every downtown is doing.

And how many of us have been to downtowns and seen the same exact place making the same exact murals, where somebody there's a butterfly shaped behind them, right?

Everyone's got a farm to table restaurant.

I mean, it's becoming so same that I think holding on to our ultimate authenticity and being something unique should be part of our 25 year strategy.

This is more of a statement you can add to it, if you like.

Afterwards.

But I've lived downtown for seven years now.

I'm you know.

It's more of a man's town than a place for female.

Female shopping is at certain places.

Most of the time, I feel women or partner their husbands at a bar and go two or three doors down and do some shopping.

Everything we have here is alignments of bars and restaurants.

Women are the with the purse that spend the money.

I think in that area we are missing out.

I mean, I don't want to have to go.

All the way to.

The tower and meet my husband somewhere else.

I mean, we usually you go to many towns, I travel a lot.

One thing they do different here, bar after bar after restaurant after restaurant.

There's no between shopping boutiques.

I mean, who wants to go to the steel yard on a bus and bring back some tools?

You can't go tools.

You just moved in.

You can't buy towels, you can't buy sheets.

You got to go to the steel yard.

So I just want to have people keep in mind that women hold the purse as far spending money.

Let's see if we can't do a little bit of in between here.

That's I mean, I will just say and I love that because it's it's true it's it's also true that, you know, that sector is really challenged from a retail perspective.

You know, going out and shopping obviously has been affected by buy online.

And so it's sort of acknowledging that.

And how do we figure out ways to help businesses that are hybrid, that maybe want smaller spaces and getting them in here?

And that's why part of the strategy is about helping small businesses and helping them sort of test this market and and with some pop ups and getting them here and experiencing it and seeing them succeed and then having them become permanent, you know, that's sort of part, part of the goal.

But, you know, that sector is is chance and there's a reason there's so much food and beverage because as I said, 70% of the spending is driven by visitors.

So they're the ones who are going out and eating.

So it's a little bit of trying to balance some of these dynamics.

Quick follow up on that.

Columbus announced a plan to support retail businesses and small businesses along the retail level with rental assistance and support for landlords to help to build out.

Are those kinds of strategies popular common and effective and other cities?

Wow, you're asking me a question.

I mean, I have I have a strong opinion about that.

Let's hear it.

When I have seen this work and I served for a number of years as the retail czar for the city of New York, I was trying on behalf of the city to make that happen.

What I very quickly learned is that it's very hard to move the dial in math at mass, right.

So that we can we spend a lot of money.

You know, there's a tremendous amount of subsidy investment that might go for one, two or three businesses.

But we haven't often solve for the fundamental problem of the fact that, you know, it might be a difficult and might be an uncomfortable environment.

It might be difficult to get there and leave.

You know, that the fundamentals, the business environment was still broken.

And so what we were doing was subsidizing businesses to occupy spaces.

And then we often saw that within one or two years they closed.

So, you know, over time I've really come to the conclusion that absolutely.

And on a case by case basis, you can do that.

But that cannot be the only piece of the strategy.

But ah, yes, James Eric Johnson historically downtown, presented the opportunity to be the center of lifestyle for people who were homeowners and residents who didn't live in the center city.

We came downtown to shop.

We came downtown to go to work.

And now, because we become so decentralized, there is this disconnection and that's why there is this mistrust with regards to investing in downtown.

So in the process, what are we doing to create the the the tangible relationship, to support the, the feeling of the broader community supporting downtown?

Because we've had a lot of conversation, we've got a lot of plans.

But, you know, we haven't made people we have made residents feel it.

I just think it's so important that, you know, for this to work, not only does the 20,000 people who live downtown have to buy into it, but the other 250, 260,000 people that live in broader Cleveland, even a broader county, have to buy into it as well.

I don't know.

You know, first.

Why I think the the the the the challenge of the disconnect between the larger community and downtown did not accrue overnight.

It won't be solved overnight.

But I think in terms of tangible things that we're doing to really create an environment and connections with downtown, we can point to a number of things.

You know, back in 2021, we in downtown Cleveland worked with a number of partners to create the first Juneteenth Freedom Festival in downtown and worked with artists of color, worked with Karamu House.

To create those community connections.

We created a mural program, Voices of CLE, that was really designed to create connections, not just with artists of color, but to animate downtown in a way that celebrates and reflects the diversity of the city.

And, you know, we do that with a lot of our programing, all of which is free.

And whether it's performing arts or public art, the way that we program and animate our public spaces is really designed to really celebrate and reflect the diversity of the city.

And I think that's something that we just need to continue to to work hard at because those types of changes don't occur overnight.

But those types of changes that are happening right before our very eyes.

Did your plan touch on that at all?

Yeah, I would say what we're trying to do is build a better mousetrap, right?

There are 416,000 households within the trade areas that we think are actually likely to come downtown.

We have to make it easy comfortable for them to do that for their patios.

Calls like The Path to purchase, right.

That has to be comfortable for them when they arrive.

Their experience has to be it has to feel safe.

It has to they have to feel comfortable when they're walking the street and going to their their store or going to an event.

And then when they leave, you know, when they leave, they carry that brand identity and they either want to come back or they don't.

And so that that entire experience has to be one that that works.

And so it's, you know, what we did is sort of identify where is that broken, you know?

Where can we fix that?

And one of the things we identified was that once you're downtown, so you've got a visitor who goes to a rock hall.

Once they leave Rock Hall, they're likely getting into their car.

And once they're in their car, they're not coming downtown.

We've lost them as a visitor.

You know, the same thing happens.

You know, a lot of the events after we heard, you know, after the event, everybody goes to their car and everything works to shuttle them out of downtown as opposed to keeping them here.

How do if they do choose to stay, how do we make sure that after dinner there's something else besides that for them to go to?

So one of the recommendations in the plan is a night market which has been tremendously successful in a lot of communities.

So a night market that's curated with, you know, wonderful vendors and events that, you know, in addition to grabbing a bite to eat, you get a drink and maybe you can go and see vendors.

And that's something that is great for residents and it's also good for visitors.

So, you know, it's identifying both the activations and the process and the ease of which you can arrive and leave downtown.

Reverend Stephen Blonder Adams I'm the senior pastor of Old Stone First Presbyterian Church on Public Square.

And for 203 years, this congregation has lived through all the changes of Cleveland's life and continues to be a vibrant part of supporting the community.

So it's kind of a twofold question I have for all three of you.

One is, are we on your radar?

And two is how can we partner with you, with your organizations to help support the work you're doing and as well as the other faith or institute missions in Cleveland?

You know, I think it's vital that we are as much a part of your vision as well.

So I will leave it at that.

Well, thanks for the question and comment.

And Old Stone Church is very much not only on the radar screen of the organization, but is integral to the fabric and history of downtown Cleveland.

We've enjoyed a tremendous relationship over the years.

In fact, one of your predecessors served on the board for for for many years.

Had a question.

Good afternoon.

Brian Miller with my services.

What is the current status of the tax abatement for residential builders and what is the long term plan for when the tax abatements that we've been providing expire?

The city of Cleveland has a new tax abatement policy that goes into effect January 1st.

And it's a pivot from, you know what, for many years had been a 100% 15 year abatement on new construction and renovations to a more tiered approach.

So that's an important change and in many ways a challenging change given the economic circumstances that we're in.

So I think, you know, we're going to have to work with the city and partners and looking at how that really gets implemented and what the impact is on things like office conversions to make sure that we're able to continue to be successful in that office conversion field and in the way that's led us to be a national leader.

There's a separate challenge you identified there about, you know, what happens when the tax abatement burns off and the properties have to start paying taxes.

That means rents start going up and that that creates some challenges around housing affordability.

That, you know, my answer to that is develop more housing.

You know, I think we can we need to.

The more quality housing we can have in downtown and in the city, I think the better off we're going to be.

But there is going to be this tension between as tax abatement burns off, affordability is going to go down.

And in order to develop more affordable housing options, we're going to need more.

They're going to there's going to need to be more public subsidy in order to develop more affordable housing.

Let's try one more question to them.

Absolutely.

So we have another text question.

No one has spoken yet about what sometimes feels like a crisis in commercial and office real estate.

What is the vacancy rate actually like right now?

Not just what's rented, but what's actually being used and occupied, and how much of our real estate is actually at risk of being owned by financial institutions?

Well, I think we, you know, talked at the outset about there are challenges that we're facing in Cleveland.

There are challenges that all downtowns are facing.

You know, a quick look at the numbers.

You know, are the lease the leasing rate of downtown office buildings is, you know, between it's in the low eighties.

We talked about the rate of return of the workforce.

Overall, it's just over 68%.

For the office workers, it's right around 60%.

We do have a number of office buildings here and in downtowns nationally that are in serious financial straits.

But everything we've talked about here today, everything we've talked here today is designed to meet those challenges.

When we're talking about our leadership in office conversion strategy.

Our focus on creating a public realm and a retail environment.

The types of public realm improvements that are going to support retail are going to be attractive to building owners.

They're going to be attractive to office tenants seeking to renew, expand or relocate, and they're going to be attractive to visitors and residents.

So everything that we've talked about today is designed to get at those issues in the office market.

And on the retail side.

I will say, you know, if memory serves me correctly and the plan is out today, so you can correct me that the ground floor we're looking at between 20 and 25% vacancy rates, which also reflect some large spaces, you know, like the Galleria tower city, that internal spaces that have significant vacancy.

So, you know, some of what we have to grapple with is acknowledging we can only support so much retail.

Where do we want to focus?

And that's really an element of the plan as well.

We don't want to necessarily spread ourselves super thin everywhere because that's not what's great for businesses.

They want to co-locate.

So it's it's about you know, focusing our concentration of retail activity where it's going to really make the most difference and acknowledging we're probably never going to fill all the spaces.

There's a structural imbalance that is going to be difficult to overcome.

You know, we're going to have to let some places go and really focus energy and activity in others.

Thank you very much.

Thank you to Kate, Michael, Larissa and Nate for joining us at the City Club of Cleveland.

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Thank you all for being here today.

We have some great forums coming up next week at the City Club starting with the state of the schools on Thursday, November 9th.

Our new CMS DD CEO, Dr. Warren Morgan will provide his inaugural State of the Schools address.

Then on November 10th, the City Club will be joined by Her Excellency Geraldine Burleson, Ambassador of Ireland to the United States.

You can learn more about these forums and other and also access our archives at City Club dot org.

And that that brings us to the end of today's forum.

Thank you once again to our speakers and thank you members, guests and friends of the City Club.

This forum is now adjourned.

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