[MUSIC].

[APPLAUSE].

[MUSIC].

GOOD EVENING EVERYONE I'M TOM FLANAGAN PROGRAM MANAGER FOR WFSU NEWS ON BEHALF OF WFSU PUBLIC MEDIA AND THE VILLAGE SQUARE WE ARE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME YOU TO GOD SQUAD AT NIGHT.

ENDING THE CYCLE OF THE NEED.

THISPROGRAM IS PART OF THE NOW 14-YEAR-OLD GOD SQUAD SERIES OFFERED BY THE VILLAGE SQUARE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH FAITH LEADERS FROM ACROSS OUR COMMUNITY.

TONIGHT'S PROGRAM STREAMING LIVE ON FACEBOOK .

WFSU PUBLIC MEDIA AND THE VILLAGE SQUARE'S FACEBOOK PAGES.

AND WE WILL START THIS EVENING WITH ABOUT WHEN I WORKED LONG GOD SQUAD CONVERSATION THAT IS TENTATIVELY SCHEDULED TO AIR ON WFSU FM 88.9 FRIDAY, DECEMBER 8 AT 7 PM.

AFTER THAT FIRST HOUR WE WILL GO TO THE AUDIENCE FOR SOME QUESTIONS AND THAT WILL TAKE UP THE FINAL 30 MINUTES OF THE PROGRAM.

IT IS NOW MY PLEASURE TO TURN IT OVER TO TONIGHT'S FACILITATOR THE REV.

REV.

DR. LATRICIA SCRIVEN OF ST. PAULb UNITED METHODIST CHURCH.

LATRICIA WILL BE TELLING US WHO ELSE IS JOINING HER ON THE PLATFORM.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: TOM I'M GOING TO HAVE EACH PERSON INTRODUCE THEMSELVES ON THE PLATFORM STARTING TO MY IMMEDIATE LEFT.

>> GARY SHULTZ OF FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH.

>> JOSEPH DAVIS JR. OF TRUTH GATHERERS COMMUNITY CHURCH.

>> BETSY OUELLETTE ZIERDEN FORMER PASTOR AT GOOD SAMARITAN UMC RABBI PAULSIDLOFSKY OF TEMPLE ISRAEL .

>> FATHER TIM HOLEDA OF ST. THOMAS MORE CO-CATHEDRAL.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: THIS IS THE GOD SQUAD EVERYBODY WAS SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU'RE HERE WITH US THIS EVENING AS WE TALK ABOUT ENDING THE CYCLE OF THE END.

I WANT YOU TO NOTE THAT THIS CONVERSATION WAS ACTUALLY INSPIRED BY AN ARTICLE THAT WAS IN THE ATLANTIC BY DAVID BROOKS AND WAS ENTITLED HOW AMERICA GOT SO MEAN.

AND HE BEGINS HIS ARTICLE BY SAYING THAT OVER THE LAST EIGHT YEARS, OR SO HE HAS BEEN OBSESSED HIS WORD OBSESSED WITH ABOUT TWO QUESTIONS.

FIRST QUESTION, IS WHY ARE AMERICANS SO SAD?

AND THE SECOND QUESTION WAS WHY ARE AMERICANS SO MEAN?

WE ARE GOING TO BEGIN THERE.

I WANT TO ASK THE GOD SQUAD ANYBODY CAN GO FIRST DO YOU AGREE WITH THIS PREMISE OF BROOKS THAT AMERICA IS GETTING MEANER?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY I THINK OF COURSE DOESN'T MEAN EVERYBODY WE DEAL WITH IS GETTING MEANER.

I THINK OVERALL WE HAVE SOME TREND THAT IS VERY POWERFUL THAT IF WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT BRING IT TO CIRCLES OFCONVERSATION , COMMUNITY WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

PEOPLE ARE GETTING SADDER AND PEOPLE ARE WITH THAT SADNESS OR WHAT I CALL BEING LOST IT A SENSE OF BEING LOST BEING LOST IN THE WORLD AROUND THEM.

THEY ARE EMOTION IS MEAN COMING MEAN I AGREE WITH THE ARTICLE AS WELL.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: OKAY ANYBODY ELSE?

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT I THINK BROOKS MAKES HIS POINT AND APPRECIATE HOW DOES TYPE THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER BEING SAD AND BEING MEAN.

THE LONELINESS THE BITTERNESS THE WAY THAT PEOPLE NO LONGER EXPERIENCE A SENSE OF BELONGING OR A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

IN OUR CULTURE ANYMORE HAS DRIVEN I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DOUBT A COARSENING OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

WE SEE THIS IN OUR DISCOURSE WE SEE THIS IN OUR POLITICS.

WE ALL HAVE PROBABLY SEEN IT IN OUR FAITH COMMUNITIESWE'VE EXPERIENCED THAT SOCIAL SCIENCE BEARS THIS OUT I DON'T THINK ANY DOUBTS BROOKS IS CORRECT .

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: >> I SAID YESTERDAY THE SUICIDE STATISTICS WERE RELEASED WAS FRIGHTENING.

A CORRELATION THERE AS WELL.

>> I WILL TAKE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ANGLE ON THIS AND WOULD SAY THAT CERTAINLY THE BEHAVIOR WE'RE SEEING OUT THERE AND DECREASE INVIOLENCE , THE INCREASE IN PREJUDICE AND HATRED IS PROBABLY HAS NEVER WENT AWAY BUT IS CERTAINLY RISEN TO THE SURFACE.

IT SEEMS TO BE MUCH MORE ACCEPTABLE IF THAT IS A GOOD TEMPERED IT IS MUCH GREATER IN RECENT YEARS.

IF ON THE OTHER HAND UST PEOPLE THINK THERE IS MORE MEANNESS THEY MIGHT SAY YES BUT IF THEY ASKED IF YOU THINK YOU ARE BEING MEAN THEY PROBABLY WOULD SAY NO.

IT'S ALWAYS A THINK SOMEONE ELSE WHO IS BEING MEAN.

SO I THINK THE ISSUE IS NOT THE MEAN NEZ PERCE BUT THE DIVISIVENESS AND THE POLARIZATION THAT IS OCCURRING GREATLY AND THAT DOES LEAD TO WHAT WE MIGHT INTERPRET AS MEANNESS AND PEOPLES ACTS NOT VISCERALLY TOWARD THEIR OWN LOVED ONES AND THEIR OWN IMMEDIATE COMMUNITY BECAUSE I THINK THEY FEEL SOME SAFETY THERE.

BUT TOWARDS THE OTHER LEVER THAT OTHER MAY BE POLITICALLY RELIGIOUSLY COUNTRY WAS THERE IS A SENSE OF US VERSUS THEM THAT'S INCREASED GREATLY AND THE MEANESS COMES OUT THROUGH THAT DIVISION.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: WHAT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION IF YOU HAVE ONE FOR US.

DO YOU AGREE IT WOULD SEEM THAT PEOPLE ARE MEANER BUT IF I REFLECT ON I THINK WHY DO I THINK THAT IS IT SOMETHING FROM MY OWN PERSONAL EXPENSES WITH PEOPLE?

I THINK WHAT COMES TO MIND IS WHAT I PERCEIVE THROUGH WHAT'S ON THE INTERNET AND WHAT'S ON TELEVISION AND WHAT I OBSERVED IN POLITICS AND SO ON.

IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY WHAT EXPERIENCE PEOPLE BEING MEAN AND MY ACTUAL LIFE DAY-TO-DAY?

I DON'T KNOW.

I DEFINITELY GET THE SENSE THERE'S A CERTAIN IMPRESSION THAT I HAVE PROBABLY FROM WHAT I OBSERVED IN THE MEDIA THAT IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE SEEMS TO BE WHAT WE SEE IN POLITICAL DISCOURSE OBVIOUSLY IN THE LAST COUPLE OF ELECTION CYCLES IT SEEMS TO BE ENDING UP AND GETTING GETTING A LITTLE LESS Scriven: IN BROOKS ARTICLE HE SAYS THAT WE ARE ENMESHED IN A SORT OF EMOTIONAL RELATIONAL EVEN SPIRITUAL CRISIS THAT HAS LED TO A DYSFUNCTION AND HE SIMULTANEOUSLY POINTS TO THE FACT THAT WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF HATRED AND ANXIETY, DESPAIR, AND IT SEEMS TO BE CYCLICAL.

SO HE SAYS PEOPLE ARE BECOMING MORE LONELY AND ISOLATED WHICH MEANS THEY BECOME MEANER WHICH MEANS THEN THEY GET LONELIER AND EVEN MORE ISOLATED BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE AROUND THEM THEN THEY GET MEANER.

SO WE SAYS THERE IS A CYCLE AND IN THAT THIS CYCLE BECAUSE WE MAY NOT HAVE OUR OWN HAPPINESS IN OURSELVES WE BEGIN TO FIND CAMARADERIE WITH OTHERS WHO ARE EXPERIENCING DYSFUNCTIONAL BEHAVIORS.

OF MEANESS WHAT WOULDYOU SAY TO THAT .

>> I THINK THAT IS PART OF IT.

I REALLY BELIEVE IT IS BIGGER THAN JUST THE OTHER.

FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S THE WAITRESS IS THE WAITRESS THE OTHER.

IT IS THE NURSE.

IT IS THE TEACHER.

IT IS THE SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR.

THESE FOLKS THAT ARE ALWAYS BEEN THE BACKBONE OF OUR CULTURE OUR SOCIETY PEOPLE IN SERVING AND HELPING PROFESSIONS ARE BEING REALLY MISTREATED AND ARE LEAVING THE PROFESSION.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF YES IT IS DIVISIVE YES IT IS POLITICAL.

I MADE THE POINT EARLIER THAT AT THE RECENT FOOTBALL TEAM WHERE FSC ONE MY SON WHO IS EMERGING CHIEF THEY HAD TO HAVE EXTRA SECURITY I'M NOT SAYING IT'S ONLY THE GATORS THAT IS JUST MEANESS THEY HAVE EXTRA SECURITY BECAUSE THEY WERE BEING PELTED CERTAIN BEHAVIORS WERE NEVER ACCEPTABLE NOW ACCEPTABLE AND MIKE GETTING MEANER?

I WONDER ABOUT IT.

I THINK ME FOR ONE I'VE NEVER USED FOUL LANGUAGE I FIND COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH BECAUSE I'M HEARING IT ALL THE TIME.

I'M EVEN SURPRISED AT HOW I HAVE PERSONALLY BEEN AFFECTED.

I'M GRATEFUL FOR THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE AND IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE DO KIND OF TURN THE LIGHT IN OURSELVES.

NEIGHBORHOODS AND COMMUNITIES AND FAMILIES NOT JUST THEM.

>> I THINK IS A GREATER SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY TO BEING MEAN.

AND WE JUSTIFY IT BY SAYING HAVE TO BE MY AUTHENTIC SELF.

I HAVE THE BE WHO I AM AND I GET TO EXPRESS THIS.

WE HAVE SO MANY MORE WAYS OF EXPRESSING THAT.

AND FOR ALL THE GOOD THINGS ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA AND BEING ABLE TO MAKE CONNECTIONS BEING ABLE TO FIND COMMUNITY AND BEING ABLE TO EXPERIENCE POSITIVE THINGS WILL KNOW THERE IS A NEGATIVE UNDERBELLY TO KIND OF NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR.

THAT SEEPS OVER INTO OUR NONDIGITAL LIVES BECAUSE OUR DIGITAL LIFE IS REAL LIFE.

THAT'S A PART OF LIFE.

I THINK THERE IS THIS EXPECTATION OF WELL RESENTMENT WILL BREED RESENTMENT IF I'M GOING TO HONESTLY EXPRESS WHO I AM, I AM GOING TO EXPRESS THAT RESENTMENT.

IF I'M BEING MISTREATED OF COURSE I AM GOING TO MISTREAT AND RETURN PRINT IF I HAVE TO RETALIATE AGAINST SOMEBODY OR IF SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO RETALIATE AGAINST ME.

AND IT JUST COMPOUNDS IT AVALANCHES.

THAT BOWL OF SNOW AND ICE CONTINUES TO GET BIGGER AND BIGGER AND BIGGER AND WILL GET CAUGHT UP IN IT.

I DON'T THINK A LOT OF TIMES AND BETSY YOU MAKE THIS POINT LEAD TIMES WE DON'T EVEN REALIZE HOW CAUGHT UP IN IT WE ARE.

THAT IS JUST WHAT WE ARE EXPRESSING THAT IS WHAT THE DISCOURSES.

AND SO WHEN WE ARE LOOKING FOR COMMUNITY WERE LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO REINFORCE THAT INSTEAD OF CONTRADICT THAT.

>> WANT TO GO BACK TO THE IDEA OF THE OTHER BECAUSE TO ANSWER YOUR POINT BETSY WHILE I AGREE THESE ARE DIFFERENT LEVELS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOW YOU TREAT SOMEBODY IN A RESTAURANT OR SOMEONE ELSE.

IN A WAY I WOULD SAY YES THEY DO BECOME THE OTHER.

I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO SOMETHING ELSE WHICH IS A DEGREE THAT WAS MENTIONED ALREADY OF ISOLATIONISM PEOPLE ARE FEELING VERY ISOLATED IN SOCIETY TODAY.

AND THAT MAY BE ALSO WHY WE TEND TO BAND TOGETHER THOSE OF US WHO HAVE GROUPS WHETHER IT'S A POLITICAL AFFILIATION RELIGIOUS OR FAMILY .

WE TEND TO BAND TOGETHER WITH THEM AND SEE THAT AS OUR SAFE SPACE.

BUT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND EVEN SOME PEOPLE WITHIN THOSE GROUPS THEY SEE ME AGAINST THE WORLD EVERYBODY IS OUT TO GET ME EVERYBODY IS THINGS ARE JUST NOT FAIR IT IS NOT RIGHT EVERYBODY IS BEING MEAN TO ME.

I THINK THAT LEADS TO THAT BEHAVIOR OF SAYING IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A HUGE SCALE IT CAN BE JUST THE WAY YOU TREAT SOMEONE .

YOU MAY SEE THEM AS THE OTHER BECAUSE YOU FEEL YOU ARE SOMEWHAT BETTER THE NUMBER YOU'RE RIGHT THEY ARE WRONG.

THEY WRONGED YOU IN WHAT THEY DID.

PEOPLE CAN'T TAKE OWNERSHIP FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF EFFORTS OF THE ISOLATIONISM THE BANDING TOGETHER WITH LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE AND THE FEELING OF FRUSTRATION NOT TAKING OWNERSHIP I THINK THOSE ARE ALL KEY ISSUES.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: BETSY MENTIONED SOMETHING EARLIER ABOUT A PERSON BEHAVES AWAY BUT THEN WE BEHAVE IN A WAY.

IN WHAT WAY IS THIS CYCLE OR THIS MEAN THIS TO BE EXPRESS OR EXPERIENCE SORT OF SYMBIOTIC I ENCOUNTER AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS JUST MEAN AND NASTY FOR NO REASON OR MAYBE THEY HAVE A REASON BECAUSE SOMEBODY WAS MEAN NASTY TO THEM AND THEY'RE JUST IN A BAD MOOD NOW I'M IN A BAD MOOD AND I SPREAD THAT ABROAD.

AND THEN IF WE TAKE YOUR COMMENTS IT IS ALSO BECOME MORE ACCEPTABLE TO BE THIS WAY BECAUSE I'M BEING MY AUTHENTIC SELF.

TO WHAT EXTENT ARE WE ENCOURAGING EACH OTHER TO BE IN THIS CYCLE?

>> I THINK ABOUT MEANESS WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

TO BE MEAN.

[LAUGHTER] >> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: LET'S DEFINE IT.

>> I GUESS WHAT COMES TO MY MIND PEOPLE ARE MEAN WHEN THEY ARE ANGRY WHEN THEY ARE AFRAID.

I THINK OF AN ANIMAL IF WE ARE BACKED INTO A CORNER THEY WILL BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THEY FEEL THREATENED.

OR THEY ARE ANGRY AND SO AT LEAST YOU'RE RIGHT I THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF FEEDING INTO THAT.

DEPENDING ON HOW WE REACT.

I THINK THE TENDENCIES WHEN SOMEBODY IS MEAN TO ME I TAKE IT PERSONAL.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO.

I THINK RECENTLY I HAD AN EMAIL EVERY NOW AND THEN SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE ME IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IT?

[LAUGHTER] NOT THAT OFTEN BUT SOMETIMES I GOT AN EMAIL THAT WAS SORT OF CRITICAL.

I CAN TAKE IT PERSONALLY OR I CAN THE WAY I TRIED TO LOOK AT IT I FELT BAD FOR THIS PERSON HE'S GOT SOME REAL ISSUES HE'S REALLY UPSET.

ABOUT SOME THINGS THAT HE CAN'T CONTROL REALLY I CAN'T.

AND I DIDN'T TAKE IT PERSONAL SO INSTEAD OF RESPONDING IN A MEAN WAY WHICH WOULD'VE BEEN EASY WOULD'VE SATISFIED MY OWN DESIRE TO LASH OUT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT INSTEAD I SAW IT AS I WANT TO SEE SOMEBODY WITH AN ILLNESS WOULD BE ABSURD FOR ME TO LAUGH AT SOMEBODY OR GET MAD IF SOMEBODY WAS SNEEZING BECAUSE THEY HAD A COLD.

LIKE WHY ARE YOU SNEEZING?

STOPSNEEZING.

THIS PERSON CAN'T HELP IT THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON INSIDE OF THEM.

SO WHEN I DON'T TAKE IT PERSONALLY IT'S EASY TO NOT FEED THAT ANGER THEN I CAN BE KIND AND A LOT OF TIMES YOU CAN DISARM IT I FOUND WHEN SOMEBODY IS ANGRY OR BEING MEAN.

>> THAT IS A VIRTUE TEACHING YOU JUST THOUGHT A VIRTUE.

>> THANK YOU .

>> WHICH IS KIND OF ONE OF THE REASONS WE ARE HERE.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THAT .

>> WANT TO ADD WHEN YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT IS YOUR SENSE OF ENCOURAGEMENT TO BE MEAN?

I THINK IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL WE MISS THAT THERE MAY BE ESPECIALLY IN THE DIGITAL WORLD ONLINE PEOPLE JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON PRINT YOU ARE ENCOURAGED TO EXPRESS YOURSELF FREELY.

SOMETIMES YOU GET PEOPLE ENCOURAGE YOU TO BE MEAN.

NOT RECOGNIZING YOUR REPUTATION THAT YOU CARRY AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO TAKE A MOMENT OF MEANNESS THEN HAVE TO ATTRACT WORDS.

THEN THEY ARE DOING A PUBLIC APOLOGY OR DOING SOME TYPE OF RETRACTION.

AND TOO LATE SOMEBODY HAS A SCREEN SHOT AT IT.

YOU LOOK AT A WORLD WHERE YOU TOOK A MOMENT TO FORGET ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCE AND THE IMPACT AND WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING BEHIND THIS.

IT IS ALSO I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOSING SIGHT OF CONSEQUENCES AND IMPACTS OF BEING MEAN.

OR GETTING THE NEED FOR KINDNESS AND COMMUNITY.

AND SO SOMETIMES IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL YOU COULD BE PUSHING SOMEBODY ON THE EDGE OF DOING SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY NOT THINK THINKING THEY ARE GOING TO DO BUT THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE A WRONG STEP.

I THINK WE ARE MISSING IMPACT AND CONSEQUENCES AND HOW OUR CONTRIBUTION TO SOMEBODY'S EMOTION IT REALLY TURNS OUT IN A NEGATIVE WAY.

I THINK WE ARE FOR GETTING ABOUT CONSEQUENCES AND IMPACT AS WELL.

I WANT TO REMIND EACH OTHER ON THE IMPACT OF NOT BEING NICE, KIND OR MAKES A LOT OF SENSE I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT IF WE TRY AND PUT GOOD OUT THERE AND AS YOU SAID THESE ARE YOUR TEACHING VALUES THESE ARE WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT YOU TAKE THAT PERSPECTIVE IT MAY CHANGE BY THE SAME TOKEN THE OTHER FLIPSIDE YOU WOULD MAKE SOMEONE ANGRIER AND MORE LIKELY TO LASH OUT AT SOMEBODY ELSE IF YOU ARE NOT.

ON THE OTHER HAND THERE ARE MANY TIMES WHEN WE ARE UNINTENTIONALLY DOING SOMETHING AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T GIVE PEOPLE THE CREDIT THAT THEY DESERVE WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS NOT OUT OF MEANESS OR OUT OF TRYING TO HURT SOMEONE ELSE.

BUT OUT OF JUST EITHER JUST NOT KNOWING OR SOMETIMES IT MIGHT BE AN EQUALLY OR EVEN MORE VALID PERSPECTIVE THAT THE OTHER PERSON DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THAT IS WHERE WE RUN INTO A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN OUR WORLD TODAY ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU GET INTO THE BIG QUESTIONS POLITICALLY RELIGIOUSLY AND SO ON I HAVE A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW WE MAY PRESENT THINGS DIFFERENTLY BUT IF WE JUST STOP AND STEP BACK AND LISTENED AND ASKED MORE QUESTIONS WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT INSTEAD OF KNEE-JERK REACTIONS YOU SAID THIS, YOU MEANT THIS THAT IS OFTEN NOW BUT GIVE THE PERSON MENTOR SAID I THINK WE WOULD HAVE A LOT LESS OF THEIR ACTIVITY SO I THINK MUNICATION AND DISCUSSION AND UNDERSTANDING IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT WHY I'M SO GLAD TO BE IN A CONVERSATION LIKE THIS.

>> WANT TO BRING UP THE EXAMPLE LITTLE CAREFUL I WAS ONCE AN FSU STUDENT IN THOSE GAMES I'M NOT GOING TO HOPEFULLY THERE WERE NO CELL PHONES AND VIDEO INSPECTED BECAUSE SOME OF THE PARTICIPATION AT THE SWAMP WAS IMMERSING WHAT HAPPENS THERE KIND OF ANALYZING THAT I REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY ONE GAME WHERE THIS WAS AFTER I WAS IN COLLEGE QUARTERBACK TIM TEBO WHO IS A GREAT GOD HE WAS A GATOR LOST AND HE WAS CRYING ON THE BENCH WHEN THEY LOST THIS GAME AND A FRIEND OF MINE WHO IS AN FSU VENT MADE THAT THEIR CREDIT CARD TOOK THAT IMAGE ADMITTED THEIR CREDIT CARD.

IT WAS INTERESTING OF THE GROWN MEN CRYING AND THIS BECAME SOMETHING THAT THEY CELEBRATED LIKE THIS MAN'S DISAPPOINTMENT AND SADNESS.

HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN YOU GO TO A GAME THAT IS PERFECTLY PEOPLE JUST TOTAL STRANGERS TO YOU AND YOU START HELPING THEM WITH THINGS OR TREATING THEM LIKE THAT.

BECAUSE IN TEAM SPORTS THERE IS NO REASONING THERE.

THIS IS MY ENEMY.

THAT IS HOW IT IS PITTED AND OBVIOUSLY IT IS RIDICULOUS FOR FANS TO ACT THIS WAY BUT THAT IS SORT OF THE MINDSET THAT STARTS TO HAPPEN .

I'VE HEARD OUR POLITICS AND OTHER THINGS IN OUR SOCIETY HAVE BEEN COMPARED TO THAT THIS SORT OF TEAM SPORT.

WHEN I VIEW THE OTHER AS MY ENEMY AND SOMEBODY THEY LOSE THEIR HUMANITY THEY LOSE THEIR PERSON THEN I CAN BE MEAN TO THEM OR THEY ARE THREATENED OR MUST DEFEAT THEM OR TREAT THEM IN SUCH A WAY AND I LOSE THE COMPASSION AND EMPATHY WHERE WE TAKE SOMEBODY'S DISAPPOINTMENT AND SUFFERING AND SO I CAN LOOK AT IT EVERY TIME I PURCHASE SOMETHING AND CELEBRATE.

IT'S A STRANGE BEHAVIOR IT WAS FUNNY TO ME WHEN IT HAPPENED THAT THIS WOMAN DID THIS LOOKING BACK IT IS LIKE HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING IMPORTANT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT BEING MEAN HOW ARE WE DOING THE PERSON WE ARE BEING MEAN TO.

>> TO BUILD ON THAT WHAT WE DO WHEN WE LOOK FOR COMMUNITY?

WE TEND TO LOOK AT THESE ARE PEOPLE WERE LIKE ME WHO AGREE WITH ME.

THEN EVERYBODY ELSE IS ON THE OUTSIDE.

AND WE PUSH PEOPLE AWAY WE KEEP THEM ON THE OUTSIDE.

I THINK THE CONCEPT THAT CS LEWIS DEVELOPED CALLED THE INNER RING WHERE WE ARE TRYING TO LOOK FOR THAT INTERGROUP YOU AGREE WITH ME MORE YOU ARE LIKE ME MORE AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS ON THE OUTSIDE.

PART OF THE ALLURE OF THAT TYPE OF COMMUNITY IS MAKING SURE THAT EVERYBODY ELSE STAYS ON THE OUTSIDE.

SO WE TREAT THEM AS ENEMIES AND THEY THINK THAT KIND OF THE VIEWING OF PEOPLE WAIT TO BE LOOK AT LONGING AND BELONGING IS REWARDED IN OUR CULTURE.

THE DEBT IS ALMOST EXPECTED AND WE PLAY INTO THAT.

IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME ON EVERYTHING IF YOU ARE NOT THERE IF YOU ARE THE OTHER I'M GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU STAY THERE.

HOWEVER I NEED TO DO THAT.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: I WANT TO LINK THAT GARY TO WHAT JOE SAID ABOUT CONSEQUENCES.

HE WAS TALKING ABOUT CONSEQUENCES SOMETIMES WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES.

BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT IS BEING SAID IS WHAT WAS ONCE A PUNITIVE IS NOW BEING REWARDED.

SO THE BEHAVIORS THAT WE WOULD'VE FROWNED UPON NOW WE PUT IT OUT THERE WE GET LIKES WE GET LOVE IT IS HILARIOUS.

IT IS ENTERTAINING.

WHAT HAS SHIFTED THAT HAS ALLOWED US TO GO FROM THE THINGS THAT WERE ONCE PUNITIVE NOW BEING A SOURCE OF ENTERTAINMENT AND BEING REWARDED?

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE ARTICLE THAT DAVID BROOKS SAYS WE TOUCHED ON ALREADY IS HIS BELIEF THAT WE HAVE FAILED TO TEACH VIRTUES.

AND SPORTSMANSHIP WOULD BE ONE OF THE WAYS TO BE USED TO TEACH VIRTUES TO CHILDREN.

YOU HELP UP THE TEAMMATE THAT YOU ACCIDENTALLY TRIPPED YOU DON'T TRY TO BREAK THEIR LEG OR WHATEVER.

WHAT HAVE WE DONE TO FAIL OUR NEXT GENERATION AS CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, AS PEOPLE, AS POLITICIANS PRINT A WHOLE LOT I SUPPOSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION IS BUT THERE IS YOU NAILED IT.

WHAT USED TO BE FROWNED UPON IS NOW CELEBRATED.

AND I DO THINK IT ALSO LINKS TO THIS IDEA OF INDIVIDUALISM AUTHENTIC SELF ANYTHING GOES.

AS LONG AS IT IS YOUR TRUTH YOU BE YOU.

HATE THAT WHEN SUMMARY SAYS YOU BE YOU.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT RUBS ME THE WRONG WAY.

[UNCLEAR AUDIO].

>> WE TRANSFER THAT SENSE OF INDIVIDUALISM TO THE GROUP AND THAT GROUP IDENTITY THAT INFORMS OUR PERSONAL IDENTITY IS NOW SOMETHING THAT I THE DEFENDANT JUST AS FIERCELY AS THAT PERSONAL IDENTITY.

I THINK YOU HIT ON SOMETHING ESSENTIAL WE DO HAVE THAT SENSE OF HYPER INDIVIDUALISM THAT WE HAVE TRANSFERRED TO A GROUP IDENTITY AND IT REINFORCES EACH OTHER.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: IT ALSO MAKES US FEEL ISOLATED.

IF I JUST HAVE TO BE ME AND I CAN BE WHOEVER I AM IN MY AUTHENTIC SELF THEN THAT IS VERY LONELY.

SO YOU WANT TO JUMP IN TO GROUP ON THE OTHER HAND, ARE YOU REALLY PART OF THAT?

>> WHAT THAT GROUP THAT WILL RECOGNIZE THAT THOSE WHO DON'T AGAIN YOU ARE ON THE OUTSIDE YOU OR THE OTHER.

>> I THINK PART OF IT ALSO IS THAT THERE IS SUCH A SENSE OF EITHER LACK OFSELF-ESTEEM , INSECURITY, THAT WE FIND SOMEHOW PLEASURE IN SEEING OTHER PEOPLE SUFFERING EVEN.

NEVER MIND THAT WE WHEN THEY LOST IN GOOD GAME AND SOMEBODY HAS TO WIN AT 70 HAS TO LOSE THAT TYPE OF THING.

BUT TAKING JOY IN SOMEBODY ELSE SUFFERING.

AND NOT ONLY IN SPORTSMEN SHIP BUT IN MANY OTHER LIFE AND DEATH QUESTIONS WHERE PEOPLE ARE CELEBRATING I'M REMINDED OF A PARABLE FROM JEWISH TRADITION BASED ON THE STORY OF THE EXODUS FROM EGYPT WHEN THE ISRAELITES ESCAPE TO FREEDOM AFTER OVER 400 YEARS OF SLAVERY THEY CELEBRATED AND SANG PRAISES TO GOD IN THE PARABLE SAYS THAT INSTEAD OF GOD CELEBRATING WITH THEM GOD CHASTISED THEM AND SAID MY CHILDREN ARE DROWNING IN YOUR SINGING PRAISES?

WHAT ARE YOU DOING.

THE LESSON OF THAT IS VERY POWERFUL.

EVEN WHEN YOU ARE VICTORIOUS EVEN WHEN YOU HAVE ONE YOUR FREEDOM AND YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE HAPPY FOR THAT YOU DON'T REJOICE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S SUFFERING OTHER GOD CHILDREN HAD TO DROWN IN ORDER FOR YOU TO BE FREE.

AS A RESULT JEWISH PEOPLE TOLD US DAVID AT THE SEDER'S BEST OF HER MEALS REMOVED 10 DROPS FROM THE CUP OF WINE SYMBOLIZING JOY A FULL CUP OF JOY WHEN WE TAKE 10 DROPS OUT FOR EACH OF THE 10 PLAGUES OF EGYPT TO SYMBOLIZE THAT OUR JOY IS LESSENED BECAUSE OTHERS SUFFERED DURING THAT.

THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OF THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OF THAT NUMBER ONE NOT TAKING PLEASURE OR SATISFACTION AND OTHER PEOPLE SUFFERING.

AND NUMBER TWO, ACTUALLY FEELING SOME OF THAT SUFFERING OF OTHER PEOPLE NOT JUST SAYING IT IS THEM OR WOULD THEY DESERVE IT AND, IT NEEDS TO BE MORE OF A MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING.

THE MORE WE GO BACK TO THE POINT OF UNDERSTANDING AND COMMUNICATING WITHEACH OTHER IN UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER AND KNOWING LIKE YOU'RE DOING AND SAYING WHAT WE SAYING NOT JUST KNEE-JERK REACTION TO IT THE MORE WE ARE LIKELY TO DO THAT.

WE DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE FAILING OR SUFFERING FOR US TO SUCCEED.

OR FEEL GOOD.

IN FACT, IF WE DO IF THEY DO WISH TO FEEL LESS GOOD WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: DO YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING .

>> I AGREE WITH THE RABBI I THINK WE NEED TO BE REMINDED OF THESE MORAL VIRTUES.

I CAN REMEMBER BEING A YOUNG MAN MAYBE 12 OR 13 YEARS OLD COMING FROM A CHURCH SERVICE WRITING IN THE CAR THE BACK SEAT WITH MY GODMOTHER.

AND I HAD AN ADOLESCENT MOMENT OF BEING MEAN.

I SAW A YOUNG MAN OR A GUY WALKING DOWN THE STREET IN A NEIGHBORHOOD PUSHING A BUGGY.

AND I TOLD EVERYBODY LOOK AT THAT GUY PUSHING THE BUGGY.

HE IS TORE DOWN RAGGEDY HE'S A BUM.

I WAS JUST TALKING AND SHE PULLED THE CAR OVER I THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH THE CAR.

I WAS WONDERING WHY WE WERE PULLING OVER TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.

AND SHE TURNED AROUND AND WAS IN MY FACE FROM THE DRIVER SEAT IN THE BACK AND SHE WAS SO CLOSE TO ME I WAS TERRIFIED.

[LAUGHTER] AND SHE GAVE ME A LESSON THAT STAYS WITH ME TILL THIS DAY.

ANDI FELT IT TO THE GUT OF MY BEING.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: A LESSON , WE ARE SAYING THINGS LIKE KINDNESS AND REALITY AND HOW WE OUGHT TO TREAT PEOPLE HOW WE SHOULD SEE OTHER PEOPLE.

CAN THESE THINGS BE TAUGHT?

FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN'T READ THE ARTICLE 1 OF THE THINGS THAT BROOKS SAYS IS THERE ARE MANY REASONS THAT WE CAN GIVE TO EXPLAIN WHY PEOPLE ARE GETTING MEANER ANY POINTS TO THE TECHNOLOGY STORY.

HE SAYS THAT SOCIAL MEDIA IS DRIVING US ALL CRAZY AND SOCIAL MEDIA MAKES US BEHAVE THIS WAY.

HE SAID THERE IS A SOCIOLOGY STORY THAT WE HAVE STOPPED PARTICIPATING IN COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS AND THEREFORE WE HAVE BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE ISOLATED THERE IS A TOMOGRAPHY STORY THAT SAYS AMERICA LONG A WHITE DOMINATED NATION IS BECOMING MUCH MORE DIVERSE IN WHO WE ARE AND AS A COUNTRY, SO THAT CHANGE HAS MADE MANY MILLIONS OF WHITE AMERICANS JUST UNCOMFORTABLE AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE GETTING MEANER.

HE SAYS IF THERE'S AN ECONOMIC STORY THAT HIGH LEVELS OF ECONOMIC INEQUALITY AND INSECURITY HAVE LEFT PEOPLE AFRAID AND ALIENATED AND PESSIMISTIC AND THAT IS WHY WE ARE GETTING MEANER.

BUT THEN HE SAYS THAT TO HIM, THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE.

THAT WE ARE GETTING MEANER BECAUSE WE NO LONGER TEACH MORALITY.

THAT WE INHABIT A SOCIETY THAT WE NO LONGER TRAIN WE ARE NO LONGER TRAINED IN HOW TO TREAT PEOPLE WITH KINDNESS AND RESPECT.

AND WITH REGARD.

AND THAT IT USED TO BE THE CASE THAT IN OUR SCHOOLS IN THE GIRL SCOUTS AND BOY SCOUTS IN OUR COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS INCLUDING OUR PLACES OF WORSHIP AND OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES, THAT WE USED TO TEACH THE THING THAT WE NO LONGER TEACH.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

ARE WE TEACHING MORALITY ARE WE TEACHING PEOPLE TO BE KIND?

>> I THINK YES IT IS IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE HAVE MORAL VALUES THAT I SEE A COUPLE OF ISSUES WITH THAT.

NUMBER ONE IS SOMEWHAT SIMPLISTIC I THINK THAT SIMILAR STORY THE WHAT JOE MENTIONED ABOUT AS A CHILD I REMEMBER SAYING SOME THINGS THAT WERE MEAN.

AND MY MOTHER TELLING ME NOT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY FOR POINTING OUT TO ME MAYBE THAT PERSON DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO WEAR NICE CLOTHES WERE TO DO THIS OR TO DO THAT.

IT STILL STICKS WITH ME LIKE YOU SAID JOE.

TILL THIS DATE IS AN IMPORTANT LESSON TO SEE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT YEARS AGO THERE WAS STILL TURNED ON WITHIN THE SCHOOL EVERYONE BEHAVED.

AS SOON AS RECESS CAME WE WERE WALKING HOME FROM SCHOOL THE CONE OUT AGAIN I EXPERIENCED IT A LOT OF US EXPERIENCED IT.

SO I DON'T KNOW TEACHING IT IS ENOUGH.

PER SE IT IS IMPORTANT.

THE OTHER THING IS WHAT DO WE MEAN BY TEACHING IT.

THEN WE GET INTO A WHOLE ANOTHER ISSUE OF WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO TEACH MORALITY IS IT A MORALITY ACCORDING TO THIS RELIGIOUS TEACHING IS IT MORALITY ACCORDING TO THIS IS IT COMPLETELY DEVOID OF RELIGIOUS TEACHING AND IT SHOULD BE THAT SHOULDN'T ENTER INTO IT.

AND THEN YOU GET INTO FURTHER DIVISION AND DISCUSSION.

SO WHAT IS MORALITY WHAT DOES IT MEAN WHAT IS MORAL TO SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT BE MORAL TO OTHER PEOPLE.

THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION AND IS THEIR ULTIMATE MORALITY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GOD.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: WHAT IS THE ANSWER IS THERE SOME OF SAID WE PROPHESIES THIS IDEA OF MORALITY EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IF IT'S RIGHT FOR ME IF I THINK IT IS RIGHT IN ITS ABSOLUTE RIGHT.

SO A GOOD QUESTION FOR FAITH LEADERS ARE THERE ANY LIKE MORAL TRUTHS THIS IS A TRUTH IN THE EARTH .

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: I SAY YES.

GARY AND I AGREE ON THIS ONE.

[LAUGHTER] >> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: WHAT IS IT.

>> Joseph Davis Jr: I DON'T KNOW.

[LAUGHTER] I REALLY DON'T KNOW BUT ONE OF MY PRINCIPLES I'M GOING TO SAY AND WE WERE GOING THROUGH IT EARLIER.

WAS BEING YOU CANNOT HURT ME.

AND SO THAT PART OF MORALITY HELPS GROUND US.

SO WHEN YOU START THINKING ABOUT THAT IT CAN HELP ME IT CAN CHALLENGE ME.

IT CAN TRAIN ME.

BUT BEING YOU CANNOT HURT ME.

AND I THINK THAT BRINGS US BACK TO THE COMMONALITY OF COMMUNITY, COLLABORATION.

WITHOUT GOING RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL I JUST WANTED TO BE RELATIONAL WITH MORALITY.

>> I WOULD SAY ABSOLUTELY MORALITY IS ESSENTIAL THE ISSUE HOWEVER I THINK SOMETHING THAT BROOKS COMPLETELY RELIES ON HE IS AWARE OF IT IS THAT AT LEAST FOR ME YOU CAN'T DISASSOCIATE MORALITY FROM THE RELIGIOUS OR SPIRITUAL.

THE BASIS OF MORALITY IS THE RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL LIVING IN A SOCIETY WHERE THERE IS NOT UNIVERSALLY AGREED UPON UNDERSTANDING OF THE RELIGIOUS MEANS THAT THERE CANNOT BE A UNIVERSALLY AGREED UPON UNDERSTANDING OF THE MORAL EITHER.

WHICH FOR ME THEN MEANS THAT YOU HAVE TO RESPECT OR WHERE OTHER PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM YOU HAVE TO DIALOGUE YOU HAVE TO LISTEN YOU HAVE TO DO YOUR BEST TO COMMUNICATE GET ALONG FINE AREAS OF AGREEMENT AND RESPECT AREAS OF THIS AGREEMENT BUT AGAIN THOSE ARE ALL MORALS DRIVEN BY MY RELIGIOUS CONVICTIONS.

SO YES THOSE THINGS OUGHT TO BE TAUGHT BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE TAUGHT IN DIFFERENT WAYS BY DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND RESPECT ONE ANOTHER ENOUGH TO AGREE WHERE WE AGREE AND DISAGREE WHERE WE DISAGREE.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY OTHER WAY FORWARD THERE IS NO SENSE OF UNIVERSAL MORALITY AT THIS POINT WE CANNOT GO BACKWARD BECAUSE WE DON'T AGREE ON THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES.

[LAUGHTER] >> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: BETSY IS TRYING TO GET IN SHE'S TRYING TO GET IN WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: I HAVE SO MUCH TO SAY.

YES YES ALL OF THAT.

I WANT TO JUST MAKE A QUICK STORY THERE WAS A POLITICIAN YEARS AGO HE WAS VERY POPULAR HE WAS MAYBE GOING TO BE THE PRESIDENT IN THE PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN OF HIM WITH A WOMAN ON HIS LAP.

THAT WAS NOT HIS WIFE.

AND HE IMMEDIATELY WAS NO LONGER A CANDIDATE.

WE HAVE HAD HAD SHARED UNDERSTANDING OF MORALITY AND IN OUR CULTURE AND WE HAVE AGREED UPON VALUES IN THE PAST.

THIS IS ACCEPTABLE AND THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

THINK LINKING THAT TO WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER ABOUT BASICALLY YOU SAID ABOUT WHAT I DO MATTERS TO SOMEBODY ELSE BECAUSE I'M AN EXAMPLE WE ARE MORAL LEADERS SO A MORAL LEADER WAY A MORAL LEADER LIVES IN THE WORLD ACTUALLY IS A LESSON ON IT DOESN'T MATTER OR LESSON SAYING I'M GOING TO BE THIS WAY SO THAT I CAN BE A BETTER HUMAN BEING FOR THE COMMUNITY AND MAYBE IF YOU ARE LIKE THIS THE COMMUNITY CAN BE A BETTER PLACE.

I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE THAT.

>> Joseph Davis Jr: I WOULD ABSOLUTELY AGREE IT'SINCUMBENT UPON US TO HAVE A STRONG SENSE OF MORALITY TO TRY TO BE THAT EXAMPLE.

TO TRY TO LIVE THAT OUT .

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: DOES ANYBODY CARE NOW?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION EARLIER WHICH I DIDN'T THINK WAS A HARD ONE.

DO I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS MORAL TRUTHS?

YES I'M A CATHOLIC PRIEST I'M NOT AFRAID TO SAY THAT I BELIEVED THE 10 COMMANDMENTS I THINK I CAN SAY THAT WITH MY JEWISH FRIEND NEXT TO ME.

THAT IS SOMETHING I THINK MOST PEOPLE CAN GET BEHIND AND SEE THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING IT IS NOT JUST THE SET OF RULES BUT LIKE A MORAL REASONING PRACTICAL REASONING EVEN THERE.

THERE IS A GREAT BOOK BY CS LEWIS CALLED THE ABOLITION OF MAN.

IT IS VERY SHORT IT'S ONE OF HIS MORE DIFFICULT BOOKS TO READ I WOULD SAY.

BUT HE GOES THROUGH THE RIGHTS IN A PHILOSOPHICAL PERSPECTIVE HE TALKS ABOUT THE UNIVERSAL MORALITY AND HE REFERS TO IT THROUGHOUT THE BOOK AS THE TAL.

HE COMPILES A LIST AT THE BACK OF THE BOOK THAT CHRISTIANS AND PAGANS IT'S VERY FASCINATING BUT YOU SEE THIS SORT OF SIMILARITY BUT THE THING IS ALL OF THESE NONE OF THESE COME FROM DISCOVERIES IN SCIENCE OR JUST PURE REASON BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENT TYPE OF INTELLECT OR SOMETHING THAT IS HUMAN HERE THERE IS SOMETHING HE WOULD ARGUE IN OTHER BOOKS COMES FROM THE DIVINE PRINT THIS TRANSCENDENT IDEA VALUES.

PART OF HIS BOOK IS THAT WE CANNOT JUST QUESTION THIS OR DISMISS IT.

I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENED IN OUR COUNTRY IS BECAUSE AS MUCH AS I LOVE OUR NATION AND ITS FOUNDING IN ALL ITS GOOD AND BAD IN ALL THAT STUFF WE DON'T HAVE A SORT OF GROUNDING PER SE IF YOU LOOK AT OUR DOCUMENTS OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENTS ALL WE HAVE THERE IS LIFE LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: ONE NATION UNDER GOD.

>> Father Tim Holeda: ONE NATION UNDER GOD WHAT DOES THAT MEAN AND HOW DOES IT PLAY OUT.

WE ARE LEFT TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

SO NOT HAVE ANYTHING GROUNDS US ANY KIND OF CODE OR WHATEVER I THINK WE ARE SEEING THE FRUITS OF THAT I'M NOT PROPOSING I HAVE AN IDEA TO SOLVE THAT.

NECESSARILY I THINK WHAT WE SEE WHEN WEOPEN UP AND EVERYBODY DO WHAT YOU WANT WE DON'T HAVE THAT THING THAT IS BINDING US TOGETHER.

NARRATIVE OR A GOAL OR VALUES I THINK THIS IS WHERE WE ARE SEEING KIND OF THE CONFUSION .

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: >> Rabbi Paul Sidlofsky: I WANT TO GO BACK I DON'T WANT TO OPEN A HUGE CAN OF WORMS WE TALK ABOUT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS OF COURSE AGREED THE 10 COMMITMENTS ARE IMPORTANT BUT IT IS THE INTERPRETATION OF THEM THAT LEADS TO PROBLEMS.

SO DO NOT MURDER.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN.

WHAT ARE THINGS WITHOUT BRINGING UP VERY HOT TOPICS EXAMPLES WHAT SINGLE WOULD CONSIDER MURDER OTHER PEOPLE WOULD NOT CONSIDER MURDER THAT BECOMES THOSE ARE BOTH MORAL ISSUES AND BOTH SIDES HAVE MEDICAL ISSUES THAT THEY ARE CONSIDERING WHEN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DANCING AROUND IT TALKING ABOUT ABORTION THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENT VALUES FROM DIFFERENT SIDES BECAUSE OF THE SAME ISSUE NOT STEALING WHAT IF SOMEBODY IS DESPERATELY IN NEED OF FOOD AND IT'S THE ONLY WAY OF GETTING FOOD TO SURVIVE FOR THE FAMILY IS THAT STEALING?

IT IS STEALING BUT IT IS SOMETHING ABOARD.

HIS THEIR OTHER ULTIMATE RULES CONNECT THAT IS NUMBER ONE THAT CAN BE A WHOLE ANOTHER DISCUSSION.

NUMBER TWO I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT JOE WAS SAYING BEFORE WAS IT YOU ARE BEING CUTE DOESN'T HURT ME.

AND WHILE I HATE TO HAVE TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE A WHAT TO AGREE WITH THAT HAVE BURIED HIS CONCERNS WITH THAT BECAUSE I'M SITTING HERE AS A JEWISH PERSON AS WELL AS AN AMERICAN IF YOU SAY THAT TO A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD TODAY THAN BEING THEM DOES HURT ME.

BECAUSE IF THEY HAD THEIR WAY WOULD BE DEAD AND MY WHOLE FAMILY AND COMMUNITY WOULD BE DEAD AND SO WOULD PRE-MUCH ALL OF US BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT.

SO YOU BEING CUTE DOESN'T HURT ME YOU BEING YOU CANNOT HURT ME.

WELL IT CAN PRINT BUT THEORETICALLY BUT IN REALITY IT CAN.

THE PART I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH AND REALLY WANT TO CLING TO IS YOU BEING YOU AS LONG AS BEING YOU ISN'T HURTING ANYONE ELSE.

LIVE AND LET LIVE NOT LIVE AND LET DIE.

LIVE AND LET LIVE LET SOMEONE ELSE JUST LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE TO DO THEIR OWN THING IF THERE THING IS TO GO KILL EVERYBODY THAT IS NOT GOOD.

THAT IS NOT MORAL.

IT CERTAINLY HURTS US.

SO WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF I THINK AMERICAN CULTURE ALSO INDIVIDUALISM AND ALL OF THAT I BELIEVE MUCH IN IT AND FREEDOM OF CHOICE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT AT TIMES WHEN PEOPLE ABUSE THAT.

THAT TO ME IS WHERE DEMOCRACY EVERYONE CAN FREE SPEECH BUT IF THE SPEECH IS HARMING PEOPLE AND GETTING PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND KILL THAT SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED.

IN DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM.

IF IT IS JUST SPEAKING OUT SURE THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: HAVE A QUESTION WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT A LOT ABOUT AMERICA WE'RE TALKING DEMOCRACY COMMUNITIES AND WILL ARE PRETTY MUCH REPRESENTING DIFFERENT KINDS OF FAITH TRADITIONS.

AND WE WERE TALKING A MOMENT AGO JUST ABOUT IS THERE AN AGREED-UPON MORALITY AND AGREED-UPON WAY OF BEHAVIOR.

WHEN WE LOOK AT JUST OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR FAITH COMMUNITY ARE PEOPLE WHO TENDED TO AGREE ON SOME THINGS AND HOW WE SHOULD LIVE DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GETTING MEANER IN YOUR FAITH COMMUNITY MAYBE NOT YOURS BUT MAYBE SOMEBODY ELSE'S THAT YOU SEE.

[LAUGHTER] MAYBE YOUR FOLKS.

>> MY PEOPLE ARE PERFECT.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: THEY'RE PERFECT THAT IS AMAZING.

[LAUGHTER] I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY THAT EVEN IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH I THINK PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THIS IN THE NEWS THERE IS CONTROVERSY AND ARGUMENTS BUT IN HAS BEEN LIKE THAT IN CHRISTIANITY FROM THE BEGINNING READ THE NEW TESTAMENT.

BUT I DO SEE AND LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER SOMEBODY SENDING ME EMAILS WE SAW A LOT OF THAT DURING THE PANDEMIC PRINT THAT WAS A REALLY FUN TIME WITH YOU ON THIS THE ARGUING.

I MISS THE ARGUMENT THAT'S WHAT I MISSED THE MOST FROM THE PANDEMIC.

I THINK OUR CHURCHES ARE NOT ISOLATED ARE PEOPLE ARE NOT ISOLATED BECAUSE THEY'RE PART OF THE CULTURE AND PART OF THIS WORLD THEY ARE PART OF IT TO THEY ARE CO-OPTED IN THIS TO THIS IDEOLOGICAL STUFF AND DIVISION SO I'M SEEING SOME MEANNESS ABSOLUTELY WHEN I'M VIEWED AS AN ENEMY THAT CAN HAPPEN.

THAT IS A THING WHEN I'M VIEWED LIKE THAT OR MY PARISHIONERS SEE OTHER PERSONS AS ENEMIES AND NOT AS BROTHERS OR SISTERS THEN YOU WILL SEE MEANNESS.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: YOU WILL THINK SOMETIMES OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES JUST TO VIEW OTHER PEOPLE AS ENEMIES?

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: AN ATMOSPHERE THAT WILL READ.

THERE WERE MULTIPLE CULTURES AS WE THINK ABOUT THAT OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES ARE THEIR OWN MINIATURE CULTURES BUT IF WE THINK OF AMERICAN CULTURE WE ARE BREEDING IN ALL OF THESE THINGS WE CANNOT HELP BUT BE AFFECTED.

BY THE ATMOSPHERES THAT WE INHABIT.

AND YES I THINK THAT THE CULTURAL STRENGTHENING OF THIS IDEA THAT WE HAVE TO BAN TOGETHER AND PUSH EVERYBODY ELSE OUT AND THAT IF YOU ARE ON THE INSIDE YOU'RE MY FRIEND IF YOU ARE ON THE OUTSIDE GRAHAM ENEMY CANNOT HELP BUT IMPACT OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES AND HAS SPREAD I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THAT.

I THINK WE CAN PROBABLY ALL SHARE SIMILAR ANECDOTES ABOUT HOW WE'VE PROBABLY HAD PEOPLE WHO LEFT OUR FAITH COMMUNITIES BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BEEN ADDED TO BEEN ENOUGH ABOUT THE OTHER SO THEY HAVE NOT FELT LIKE THEY'VE LONG ENOUGH SO THEY WILL GO FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE THAT SINCE THAT TIGHTER I THINK THAT'S A CULTURAL VALUE.

I THINK THAT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING I WOULD SAY OVER MY CLOSE TO 20 YEARS OF MINISTRY HAS INCREASED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

THAT IS PART OF THAT IS A CULTURAL IMPACT.

I'M ALWAYS TRYING TO HELP OUR PEOPLE TO REMEMBER IS EVEN AS WE ARE AFFECTED BY CULTURE WE HAVE TO TRANSCEND THAT AND GO OUT AND IMPACT CULTURE IN THE NAME OF CHRIST AS CHRISTIANS.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE CALLED TO DO.

BUT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE ARE BEING IMPACTED BY CULTURE.

THAT HAPPENS.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: LIKE THE LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE AUTHORITY OF THE PASTORAL OFFICE OR THE LACK OF RESPECT FOR THE TEACHER IN THE CLASSROOM.

GOING BACK TO THE IDEA THAT CERTAIN ROLES WERE AFFORDED CERTAIN RESPECTABILITY AND AN EXPECTATION OF BEHAVIOR THAT THE CULTURE PLACED UPON IT.

AND ALONG WITH THAT CAME SOME AUTHORITY THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED.

LIKE WE ARE TRYING TO USE IT TONIGHT TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER TO UNDERSTAND OTHERS.

WHEN THECONGREGATIONS WHATEVER THEY MIGHT BE , AGAIN TO BE LIKE BREATHING IN THE AIR WE BREATHE NOW THE LACK OF RESPECT FOR AUTHORITY TO LACK OF RESPECT FOR OFFICE COLLECT OF RESPECT FORHUMANITY , IT DOES HAVE AN IMPACT AND WHAT I AM DOING NOW IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A COMMERCIAL BUT I AM A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR AND I SEE CLIENTS AND A LOT OF MY THE PEOPLE THAT I WORK WITH OUR CLERGY.

THEY ARE HEARTBROKEN IT IS NOT LIKE IT USED TO BE.

IT IS HARDER ALL THE TIME.

>> Father Tim Holeda: IT IS A STRUGGLE FOR PERJURY YOU WANT A CERTAIN DEGREE OF COLD AUTHORITY BECAUSE YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME STARTING A LOT OF TIME PRACTICING AND PUT OUR HEARTS AND SOULS INTO WHAT WE DO.

ON THE OTHER HAND I COME FROM A MORE LIBERAL FORM OF RELIGIOUS PRACTICE.

SOMETIMES I STRUGGLE WITH THE DOGMATIC ASPECT OF RELIGION WHILE I RESPECT THE FACT THAT RELIGION HAS DOGMA AND IT DOES HAVE THE SET OF BELIEFS AND RESPECT IT FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BELIEVE IT WHEN IT STRETCHES TO IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS YOU'RE WRONG AND OTHER PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF OUR PARTICULAR CONGREGATION OR GROUP RELIGIOUS GROUP DON'T BELIEVE IT IT IS WRONG.

I THINK THERE ARE MULTIPLE TRUTHS AS I'VE SAID BEFORE NOBODY HAS A MONOPOLY ON THE TRUTH.

WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TRUTHS WITH A SMALL T AND DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE MEANINGFUL THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE LITERALLY TRUE AND THERE IS NOT ONE APPROACH TO GOD OR TO MORALITY THERE MAY BE SOME THAT AREN'T DILIGENT BUT THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT LEGITIMATE ONES.

THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT THINK THE OTHER THING I THINK IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC IS THAT IS WHEN BILLY TRIED TO AVOID IT IN MY PULPIT IS WHEN PEOPLE BECOME OVERLY POLITICAL.

AND USE THE PULPIT AS A POLITICAL PLACE TO STAND UP AND GIVE VIEWS.

THAT'S ME IS NOT WHAT RELIGION IS ABOUT YES THERE ARE ETHICS AND MORALITY THERE ARE VALUES THAT SHOULD BE TAUGHT BUT NOT IN TERMS OF POLITICS.

THAT'S WHEN IT BECOMES VERY DIVISIVE SO I WILL SAY I DON'T WANT TO GIVE A SERMON FOR HALF THE CONGREGATION GETS UP AND APPLAUDS THE OTHER HALF GETS UP AND WALKS OUT.

I WANT TO GIVE A SERMON THAT TEACHES AND MAYBE INSPIRES AND GIVES PEOPLE FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

BUT NOT TO BE DIVISIVE I'M REALLY TRYING TO AVOID THOSE TYPE OF THINGS AND I THINK AS PART OF THE ISSUE THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH A LOT IN OUR SOCIETY IN TERMS OF Latricia Scriven: WENT TO GET THE SOMETHING FIRST I WANT TO THROW OUT THE TERM I FOUND IT FASCINATING THAT BROOKS FUSES HE SAID THAT WE HAVE BECOME OR ARE BECOMING VULNERABLE NARCISSISTS.

VULNERABLE NARCISSISTS.

HE SAID NOT LIKE REGULAR NARCISSISTS WE ARE ALL ABOUT OURSELVES AND OVERCONFIDENT BUT NOT LIKE THE USUAL NARCISSISTS.

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH WHAT IT IS.

BUT THE VULNERABLE PART OF IT IS THAT WE ARE ALL ABOUT OURSELVES AND ALSO WE ARE ANXIOUS WE ARE INSECURE WE ARE AVOIDANT WHICH MAKES US THE WORST KIND OF NARCISSIST BECAUSE THEN WE BEGIN TO ACTUALLY SCAN FOR SIGNS OF DISRESPECT SO THAT WE CAN RALLY TOWARDS IT TO KEEP IT OFF OF OURSELVES.

BUT MY QUESTION AND MY QUESTION FOR US THIS EVENING IS WHAT IS THE FIX?

IS THERE A FIX WE ARE HERE WITH OUR FAITH LEADERS HOW DO WE GET BETTER AS A COMMUNITY?

>> HE WHO CARES ABOUT ME BECAUSE I CARE FOR YOU TO MEET THAT IS THE FIX.

THAT IS FOR ME THE CALL TO FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST THAT IS THE FIX.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: WAS THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU SHARED WITH ME IT WAS SIMILAR TO WHAT TIM SAID FORGIVE THEM THEY KNOW NOTWHAT THEY DO.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: YOU SAY IT.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: YOU SAY IT IS YOU'RE SAYING .

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: I TOLD BETSY THAT MIKE SAYING OFTEN I HAVE INTENTIONALLY PRACTICED RESISTING THE URGE TO GET OFFENDED.

BECAUSE I REALIZE THAT OFTEN IT IS NOT EVEN ABOUT ME IT IS SOMETHING GOING ON IN THE INDIVIDUAL AND I WILL REPEAT TO MYSELF GOD FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING EVEN WHEN I THINK THEY ABSOLUTELY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING BECAUSE IN OUR DEEPEST SELVES WE ARE SOMETIMES TOO BROKEN TO KNOW.

AND I RECITE THAT ALL THE TIME.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: WROTE IT DOWN I'M TRYING TO INC. IS ONE OF MY MANTRAS AND THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF VIRTUE TEACHING AND LESSONS THAT CAN CHANGE YOUR LIFE.

>> THINK IT STARTS WITH WE HAVE THE MODEL THAT IS LEADERS.

AS BEST AS WE CAN.

IT IS HARD I THINK SOMETIMES I DON'T MEAN TO HAVE A PITY PARTY FOR US INVOLVED IN MINISTRY BUT SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE ROUGH ON US.

AND CRITICAL AND SO ON.

I THINK WE HAVE TO REALLY RESIST THE URGE TO TAKE IT PERSONAL AND TO REALIZE THAT IF SOMEBODY IS COMING AT US IF SOMEBODY IS BEING MEAN I THINK AGAIN THAT YOU CAN DISARM THEM BY NOT BEING MEAN THAT.

THIS IS A RISKY THING BECAUSE IF USE THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE DOG IN THE CORNER WHAT DO YOU DO YOU CAN BACK OFF OR YOU CAN SHOW THEM YOUR HANDS.

HOPEFULLY HE WON'T BITE THEM.

BUT HE MIGHT THAT IS SORT OF THE THING IF SOMEBODY'S ATTACKING ME OR ANGRY AT ME A LOT OF TIMES ASK THEM WHY ARE YOU ANGRY AT ME?

IF YOU ASK A QUESTION LIKE THAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID TO HURT YOU.

THAT JUST DISARMS PEOPLE IT'S HARD TO FIGHT A PILLOW.

BUT IF I'M WORRIED ABOUT MY PRIDE I AM THIS PERSON HOW DARE YOU TALK TO ME LIKE THAT WHICH I'M A THING I'VE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE BECAUSE I HAVE PRAYED BUT IF I CAN REMEMBER TO NOT TAKE THIS PERSONAL WHAT'S GOING OVER THIS PERSON I FEEL BETTER FOR THEM WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP THEM CONNECT IT CAN REALLY SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS I THINK I CANNOT CONTROL PART OF THE PEOPLE DO.

HAD TO LET GO OF THAT A WHILE AGO.

I CANNOT CONTROL WITH HELPING WASHINGTON OR AROUND THE WORLD BUT WHAT I CAN DO IS IS HOW DO I TREAT PEOPLE IN HEADWAY MODEL THAT FOR MY PARISHIONERS?

WHAT'S I THINK A LOT OF IT GOES BACK TO UNDERSTANDING ONE ANOTHER WE HAVE TO TAKE A STEP BACK BEFORE WE SAY THAT WHAT LEADS TO UNDERSTANDING THAT WOULD BE I THINK COMMUNICATION FIRST OF ALL.

TO BE ABLE TO OPEN AND HONEST COMMUNICATE NOT CRITICALLY NOT PICK APART EACH OTHER USE OR TO FIND FAULT BUT TO ACTUALLY LISTEN THAT IS VERY HARD.

I CERTAINLY WILL SAY IT IS HARD FOR ME TO DO.

OFTEN PERSONALLY AND IN TERMS OF LEADERSHIP BUT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT WITHIN MY CONGREGATION AND IN MY LIFE IN GENERAL TO LISTEN TO SOMEONE ELSE AND HEAR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY AND AGAIN NOT JUST REACT TO WHAT I THINK THEY ARE SAYING WHAT I'M ASSUMING OR WHAT I'M BASING ON MY EXPERIENCE.

ONCE WE LISTEN AND COMMUNICATE WE MIGHT LEARN MORE ABOUT EACH OTHER AND START UNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER MORE.

WE MAY NOT AGREE ON EVERYTHING BUT AT LEAST WE'LL HAVE A MORE RESPECT FOR WHERE THE OTHER IS COMING FROM.

THEN THAT ULTIMATELY LEADS TO THE MAIN WORD WHICH IS TRUST THAT IS BUILDING A SENSE OF TRUST FROM ONE INDIVIDUAL TO ANOTHER OR FROM ONE GROUP TO ANOTHER WHATEVER PART OF LIFE IT IS AND IF WE CAN LEARN TO TRUST EACH OTHER THAT IS VERY HARD BUT TO REBUILD THAT TRUST I THINK THAT IS WHAT HAS BEEN ERODED AND PEOPLE DON'T TRUST ANYTHING THAT WILL TRUST THE MEDIA DON'T TRUST THE OTHER POETIC PARTY THEY DON'T TRUST THE OTHER RELIGION THE OTHER COUNTRY THE OTHER THIS AND THAT.

HE MAY NOT EVEN TRUST PEOPLE IN OUR LIVES BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN HURT BY SOMEBODY WE NEED TO REBUILD THAT.

MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE.

BUT CRUCIALLY IMPORTANT.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: >> Joseph Davis Jr: MY THOUGHT WOULD BE THERE TO LOVE.

I KNOW THAT YOU MEAN SOMETHING DIFFERENT IN EVERY CONTEXT BUT I THINK THAT PHRASE FOR ME THAT I TRY TO PRACTICE AND MODEL IS DARE TO LOVE.

WHEN I'M FACED WITH A PERSON WHAT FEEL IS MEAN OR WHEN I FEEL LIKE I WANT TO BE MEAN BECAUSE THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.

AND I JUST SAY DARE TO LOVE JOE.

THAT MAKES ME BECOME A LITTLE MORE INNOVATIVE ON WHAT I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I'M GOING TO SAY.

I'M GOING TO APPROACH IT AND SO THAT IS MY PHRASE DARE TO LOVE AND THAT HELPS ME NAVIGATE THROUGH THE MOTIONS NAVIGATE THROUGH WHAT I FEEL IS A THREAT.

BUT WHAT DO I NEED TO DO FUTURE LOVE THAT PERSON CONNECT WHAT IS THAT SIN CONTEXT WHAT IT JUST HELPS ME.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven:IT TAKES COURAGE TO LOVE I THINK IT TAKES VULNERABILITY .

IT TAKES INTENTIONALITY.

I'M REMINDED OF A SAYING THAT PAIN THAT IS NOT TRANSFORMED IS TRANSMITTED.

AND PERHAPS WE HAVE BECOME MEANER BECAUSE WE ARE HOLDING PAIN AND MAYBE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THAT PAIN AND PERHAPS AS WE CENSOR OURSELVES AND BEGIN TO CENTER OTHERS THEN WE CAN DARE TO LOVE AND LOVE IN A WAY THAT BECOMES ACTUALLY HEALING.

HEALING FOR OTHERS HEALING FOR OURSELVES.

CAN WE TEACH IT?

ANYBODY ELSE WANT TO ANSWER THE CAN WE TEACH IT?

I WOULD LOVE FOR US TO GO OUT WITH A SENSE OF HOPE RIGHT NOT DESPAIR THAT SO MANY THINGS SEEM LIKE THEY ARE GOING CRAZY BUT WHAT CAN WE DO INDIVIDUALLY TO SHIFT THIS CULTURE THAT WE ARE AGREE IS HAPPENING?

>> I THINK THE WAY TO TEACH IT IS BY DOING IT AND BEING IT PRINT I'M OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE MOVIE PAY IT FORWARD.

WE ARE ONE YOUNG STUDENT DECIDES TO DO SOMETHING GOOD FOR SOMEONE ELSE WITHOUT ANY REWARD IN RETURN THE ONLY THING THE PERSON ASKS IS TO PAY IT FORWARD THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING IN THE SAME WAY FOR SOMEBODY ELSE.

IT CAN POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE COMMUNITY AND THE WORLD IF EVERYBODY DID THAT EVERYBODY TOOK SOMETHING CONTINUED AND BY THE SAME TOKEN IF WE DO SOMETHING MEAN THEN THEY CAN CONTINUE AND THE RIPPLES KEEP GOING ELSE.

I THINK DEMONSTRATING LOVE DEMONSTRATING CARING DEMONSTRATING TRUST AND UNDERSTANDING IS THE BEST WAY TO TEACH IT NOT LESSONS NOT BY QUOTATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BUT BY ACTUAL ACTS OF LOVE AND IF WE DEMONSTRATED DOESN'T ALWAYS STICK IT DOESN'T ALWAYS GO BUT THE MORE LOVE WE PUT OUT THERE THE MORE LOVE THERE IS IN THE WORLD.

AND THE MORE HATE AND MEANNESS WE PUT OUT THERE MORE HATE AND MEANNESS THERE IS IN THE WORLD WE NEED TO START WITH OURSELVES AND HOPE THAT OTHERS FOLLOW SUIT.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT MOTHER THERESA FOR MOMENT SHE IS THE WOMAN WHO IS A CATHOLIC NUN.

WENT TO CALCUTTA AND OTHER POOR AREAS UNTIL PEOPLE THERE WHO WERE LYING ON THE STREET DYING AND NEGLECTED AND ABANDONED REALLY BECAUSE OF BELIEF SYSTEMS BECAUSE OF VALUES.

IT WAS NOT AN ACCIDENT.

BUT SHE SAW CHRIST IN THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE SHE BELIEVED THAT GOD BECAME A MAN FOR EVERY HUMAN BEING HAD A VALUE THAT WE CAN'T PLACE A NUMBER ON IT.

EVERY HUMAN BEING IS WORTH MORE THAN THE UNIVERSE.

WHETHER THESE PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIAN OR NOT SHE SAW SOMETHING IN THEM THAT WAS DIVINE AND TOOK CARE OF THEM PEOPLE WHO WERE IN PRETTY BAD SHAPE TAKING CARE GIVING THEM AND CLEANING THEM NURSING THEM WHETHER THEY CONVERTED OR NOT IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.

IT WAS HER SEEING THE DIVINE IN THEM.

I THINK THAT RIGHT THERE I KNOW PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO BELIEVE IN CHRISTIANITY NECESSARY I THINK STARTING WITH THAT AND SEEING THE HUMAN BEING AND HUMAN PERSON WILL CHANGE HOW WE TREAT ONE ANOTHER.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: AND EVEN HUMAN SECULARIST WOULD AGREE WITH THAT POINT THAT HUMAN DIGNITY AND HUMAN VALUE IS OF GREAT WORTH.

>> Father Tim Holeda: THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN HOW THEY ARRIVED AT THAT BUT OKAY I JUST HAD TO THROW THAT OUT THERE.

>> Betsy Ouellette Zierden: YOU KNOW AGREE WITH YOU I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE OUT OUR FRIENDS WITH SIMILAR VALUES.

EVEN IF THEY GET THERE DIFFERENTLY.

I'M NOT AFRAID TO SAY SOME THINGS ARE WRONG OR SOMETHING'S ALL RIGHT NOT AFRAID TO SAY THAT.

FOR EXAMPLE I THINK ANTI-SEMITISM IS WRONG I DON'T THINK THERE'S A TRUTH OUT THERE THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS OKAY I THINK IT'S OKAY TO SAY THINGS LIKE THAT.

THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE IS A PRIEST NOT THAT I LIVE IT PERFECTLY BUT I'M NOT AFRAID TO SAY THAT.

[LAUGHTER] >> OF VIRTUE CAN BE TAUGHT AND SHARED IN MODELS.

IT ABSOLUTELY CAN.

>> Joseph Davis Jr: IT'S HAPPENING.

>> AND IT IS HAPPENING OFTEN TIMES WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE GOOD THAT'S HAPPENING BECAUSE WE ARE SO OVERWHELMED BY THE BAD.

>> Rev.

Dr. Latricia Scriven: AS WE ARE WRAPPING UP IN TALKING ABOUT VIRTUE AND ALL THE THINGS TO THINK THAT COMES TO MIND FOR ME IS WHAT GANDHI SAYS OR SAID BE THE CHANGE THAT WE WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD THAT IS HOW WE GET TO MODEL .

WE ARE AT THE CHANGE THAT WE WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD.

AND THEN THERE IS AN AFRICAN PROVERB THAT SAYS I AM BECAUSE WE ARE BECAUSE WE ARE THEREFORE I AM AND WHEN WE BEGIN TO SEE EACH OTHER AS COMMUNITY THEN WE CAN END THIS CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

BEFORE WE INVITE THE STUDIO AUDIENCE TO ASK US QUESTIONS I JUST WANT TO TAKE A MOMENT TO THANK THOSE WHO WERE LISTENING BY RADIO OR TUNING IN TO GOD SQUAD ENDING THE CYCLE OF MEANING.

IN THE FULL PROGRAM WITH QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE WILL CONTINUE ON FACEBOOK AFTER A SHORT BREAK AND IT WILL BE ARCHIVED ONLINE ON BEHALF OF THE VILLAGE SQUARE ON THE BEHALF OF WFSU WHAT TO SAY THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE WE HOPE YOU WILL JOIN US SOON GOOD NIGHT.

[APPLAUSE].

[MUSIC].