- Just ahead on Black issues Forum, the 2024 election is piping hot with announcements from presidential and gubernatorial candidates.

So many questions being asked, but we'll start with our Head of State.

- This is not a time to be complacent.

[intense music] That's why I'm running for reelection.

- We'll get to it, right after this.

- [Narrator] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina, with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Welcome to the show.

Feels like the year has just begun but we're quickly approaching summer, which means 2024 and the presidential elections aren't far behind.

Let's get right to the conversation because there is so much to cover.

Let's bring back our Black Issues Forum regulars, political analyst, Steve Rao, and student organizer and co-founder of Young Americans Protest, Greear Webb.

Welcome, gentlemen.

- Thanks.

- Pleasure to be here.

- Steve, let's start with you.

Biden has finally announced, coming in strong, with what I would consider a very moving campaign video.

Is this going to be enough along with his current term to convince voters that he's still up for the job?

- Well, first of all, I think that the first thing I'll say is age.

I mean, before I get into some other issues.

I mean, we have the oldest living president, 82, against former President Trump, most likely, and both are relatively unpopular within their own parties for reelections.

So you have an unpopular incumbent against a former unpopular president.

So the question is, if they run someone like DeSantis against Biden, would that give the Republicans a chance of saying there's a generational difference of 40 years between the nominees?

So that's something I think to consider down the road.

What I will say, I have a few points I want to make on this.

You know, the first is that history has shown us that there's really no connection between an approval rating that's low and a president's reelection.

The last nine US Presidents, two had approval ratings of above 50%.

Jimmy Carter at 51%, and George H. W. Bush at 65%.

Both lost reelection.

Obama came in at 42, Bill Clinton at 46.

So Biden can win.

He has had a success with a united party, a united Europe against Russia and Ukraine.

He has had a success with pandemic relief, infrastructure relief and climate change relief.

The elephant in the room is the economy.

In 1992, Bill Clinton said, "It's the economy, stupid."

So inflation, rising gas prices, a looming recession, I think make it hard for the President.

In order to win, to answer you question, he has to show that these policies are making people pay less at the pump, have more economic growth, more jobs, more opportunity.

And if like Governor Cooper has said on CNN a few months ago, we have the states with billions of dollars.

So if he can show these projects are going to work, I think he has a good chance.

You know, the final thing I'll say is that Joe Biden won for two reasons, Covid and Donald Trump.

We don't have Covid anymore, but I think that he can beat Donald Trump, if he can- If the economy gets better, he can say happy days are here again.

He's a fighter.

I wouldn't count him out.

I would still say that he has a good chance of being reelected as our president again.

Yeah, well, we'll see.

Greear, there are a bunch of folks that have come out now putting in their bid.

Who are some of these newcomers to the presidential candidate landscape?

- Sure, first, Kenia, thank you for having me as always and shout out to the PBS NC family.

I always enjoy being here and thank you all for all you do.

I think it's very important to discuss who some of the other candidates are, but as Steve mentioned, the leading candidate on the Democratic side is Joe Biden.

I mean, you do have Marianne Williamson who is making some really good points and connecting with young voters a bit.

Gavin Newsom was likely to enter the race but he is now backed down and has endorsed Joe Biden, excuse me.

And so I think that Joe Biden is really that front runner, Kenia.

There are not many other viable candidates on the Democratic side.

And as Steve mentioned, while I may want Joe Biden to be younger and closer to my age, I do think there is a lot of progress that he has made and championed.

And he's done a good job of reaching out to a diverse population across the United States, to communities of color, the marginalized and young people, at least listening to us and wanting to work on our behalf.

And so I do believe that he will be the front runner for the Democratic nominee for President.

And there may be a few other folks who announce on the Democratic side, but as I mentioned, Marianne Williamson is the only one gaining some kind of traction that I've heard of.

- Yeah, you mentioned young voters a lot.

How critical is the young votes in this next election?

- It's gonna be very critical, Kenia.

We've seen an increase or an uptick in young voters throughout the past couple of cycles, especially after 2018, and after that Parkland school shooting, which is still top of mind for many young people as we see gun violence and mass gun violence continuing to occur almost every day, every second it feels like in this country.

And so that's something I know we'll get into but that's something that's very important in this cycle.

Violence generally, political division, and I think young people have a, we're in a prime position right now, Kenia, to really alter the political state of this country.

And so I do hope that President Biden, I do hope that any candidate that wants to win and wants to serve as President of the United States would reach out to young people and really champion and value the issues that we hold near and dear as the future leaders of this nation.

- Yeah, good points.

Steve, every term, every cycle, we talk about key battleground states in the presidential election.

Is North Carolina an influencer?

- Absolutely, North Carolina, we have 15 electoral college votes.

And so last election, President Trump won this state by, I think, 1.4 percentage points.

So absolutely, you're gonna see a lot of money pouring in to North Carolina for the presidential race, which is gonna affect, I think, a lot of the downballot races.

We're gonna talk about the governor's race in a few minutes, so yeah, absolutely.

And I think the key swing states, the four main battlegrounds are Georgia, Texas... Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

So Georgia and Arizona, leaning Republican, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, are swing states.

And then you've got about 17 other states that 217 electoral votes are at play.

So this is gonna be a close election.

And I think in order, I think what Biden is gonna have to do is he's gonna have to get Democrats who approved of him last time who may not be happy.

- To actually say, well I'm gonna vote for him instead of the alternative.

And so same thing maybe with moderate Republicans and Independents to say, "Look, there's so much controversy around Trump."

So that's gonna be the challenge to get to the 270 that either candidate needs to get.

But yeah, North Carolina is gonna be critically, critically important in this cycle.

- Yeah, and I'd love to have you back when we get closer.

There's always questions about electoral votes, and what does that mean?

I'd love to have an education session with you, [chuckles] once we get closer to time.

- I'm learning every day.

It is confusing.

[chuckles] - Yeah, it is.

It is.

One thing that I've noticed is that we haven't heard much from Trump since his indictment.

Greear, what are your thoughts on his chances in this race?

- Oh, I definitely think he has a good chance of winning the Republican primary for president of the United States.

You know, you said he's been quiet, but it doesn't take him long to get going, right, and to make an imprint and some noise.

And so I do think that Donald Trump is a very, very good contender to win the Republican primary for President of the United States.

I know we're talking a lot about DeSantis and all that's going on with Disney and just this whole idea of older generation versus younger.

But we still see in the polls, as Steve knows, that Trump is polling the highest out of any current Republican candidate for president of the United States.

I know there will be a few more to announce.

Nikki Haley has announced.

But it's very important to understand that Donald Trump does have a pocket of Americans where they're gonna go for him every time.

They like what he has to say.

They believe that he speaks for them.

And even though I believe that he is often very divisive, I do think that he knows what he's doing or at least has some decent advisors who know how to get him in a winning position.

I mean, he's been our president already, and so definitely wouldn't want anyone to undervalue his power and then poise as a political candidate.

Now, however non-traditional that may be, he's still proven to be a successful political candidate in this country.

And so, as I mentioned, he may be a little quiet now, but I would definitely keep our eyes and ears out for him soon.

- Yeah, definitely can't underestimate him.

He has sound counsel around him for sure.

So this 2024 election is going to be an interesting one.

Just recently, GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy was in a heated debate with now former CNN Correspondent Don Lemon.

- The part that I find insulting is when you say, today, Black Americans don't have those rights after we have gone through - The fact that I through fact that I find civil rights revolution in this country.

- You are sitting here telling an African-American about the rights and what you find insulting about the way I live, the skin I live in every day.

- Here's where you and I have the freedom, - I know the freedoms that Black people don't have in this country, and that Black people do have.

- I mispronounced his name earlier, Ramaswamy I believe is how you pronounce his name.

I'd love to get both of your take, Greear starting with you.

What is your reaction to Don's comments as well as the, the GOP's comments?

- I mean, it's so unfortunate.

I think first of all we've seen some reporting come out recently that this interview may have been part of the reason why Don Lemon was let go from CNN.

I really hope that's not the case because I think Don was right on the money, as he often is.

I mean, the claims that the commentator there or I believe a Republican candidate for president was making, were just preposterous.

I mean that the NRA was the leading champion for, and helped.

I don't even know how to justify saying that out loud.

Black freedom after the Civil Rights movement, excuse me, after the Civil War.

And I know that there is some truth in the gun ownership connection to Black America but let's be real, Black Americans have always done our part to challenge and resist our own oppression.

We've had white allies and it's now time to really put some of our passions and some of these policies into practice.

It's time to really get real about investing in Black and Brown America.

And so the fact that that conversation was maybe one of the reasons that Don Lemon distinguished Black commentator was let go.

And not even that, but that this person who is not Black was trying to make such an assertion and go against the lived experience of a Black American with facts that were not based in any type of reality.

I guess they weren't really facts was was very troubling to me.

And so I think that's why we need to continue to have these conversations in this discourse about what is real, what are facts.

But it's very important to not claim to be more abreast of what's going on and more aware of someone who has had an actual lived experience living in the skin that they occupy every day.

- Yeah.

Steve, what are your thoughts?

- Well, first of all, as the son of immigrants from India it's always great to see Indian Americans rise politically with Nikki Haley.

And you know, obviously Mr. Ramaswamy who's been a successful businessman.

But I agree with, with Greear and also with Congressman Ro Khanna, I think that his statements were embarrassing to be a presidential candidate.

I would say to Mr. Ramaswamy if I had him here in a room, that the difference as you know, he's an immigrant from India, like my parents like many of the people that live in Morrisville around the area and the North Carolina from India.

And, but his ancestors didn't come to this country on slave ships.

And for him to say that, you know Black Americans got their rights after the Civil War and to connect it with the NRA is absolutely ludicrous.

And, you know, I would have to stand by Don Lemon.

I don't know why Don Lemon was fired, but I do agree with the fact that nobody has the right to come in and make these assumptions.

I mean, you look at what happened to Black Americans after the Civil War for over a hundred years deprived the right to vote, lynchings, tort rapes, you know, just, you know, voting rights.

Right?

And today, still Black Americans have to tell their children, "Well, if you stopped by police officer just be really careful 'cause you could get shot."

I am just, anyway, this was a CEO of a company.

He's a very smart man, but obviously, you know he's not a viable candidate for president in my opinion.

But I think he owes the Black Americans an apology.

And I quite frankly believe his statements were embarrassing.

And, that's where I stand on that.

- I hear you.

There's a lot going on locally here in North Carolina.

Republican Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson has officially announced his bid for Governor.

Steve, when we talk about Attorney General Josh Stein he's already announced his bid for the Democratic ticket.

The contrast might be obvious, but objectively speaking, what are voters getting with a vote for Robinson or a vote for Stein?

- Well, as I've said on the show time and time again, any candidate is viable.

And so let's start with Mark Robinson.

I mean, I think this is where I'm looking at it from where the perspective of the voters are.

First of all, he's a Black man who will make history if he's elected as the first Black governor.

Speaking from personal experience, when I became the first Indian American elected in the state in Morrisville and Wake County to be a city councilman that drove a lot of people from my ethnic back community, Indians and Asians to vote.

So in this case, it could pull away votes from Josh Stein.

I've heard that 15% of Black Americans if they vote just to make history, Mark Robinson could win.

- The second thing, he has strong appeal to the rural area, being from rural North Carolina.

He has a Trump-like message to working people, because he has a very different story than an Ivy League educated Dartmouth graduate, Harvard law graduate, Josh Stein.

And then I've heard some negative things about his statements on HB2 and transgenders.

Some business leaders, and even moderate Republicans, have told me that they're concerned that, you know, if Robinson were the governor, we could return back to the way it was during HB2, where billions of dollars leave North Carolina.

As it comes to Josh Stein, I think it comes down to experience.

He's done a lot more than make speeches.

As a senator, he's got a proven track record, and as attorney general, on fighting for the environment, fighting against, fighting for consumers, negotiating settlements for opioid.

And so, I think it comes down to the eighth largest state in the union.

The people, the question people will ask, is is this the time for on-the-job training to be the chief executive?

And I can tell you this, anybody that knows Josh Stein, Republican, Independent, Democrat, know that within 10 seconds of him taking the oath of office to be governor, which he'll do on midnight that night, and the next day, he'll be ready to put together a government, and lead the state.

And I think that's an important thing to understand.

And he'll be able to quickly transition, because he understands government, he understands the legislature.

And, of course, his mentor is our former governor, well, will then be the former governor, Roy Cooper.

So, that's where I'm looking at it.

But it's gonna be a tight race.

And it's gonna be, it's gonna be a fight.

- Yeah.

You raised many issues that we're facing here in North Carolina, that will be top of mind for a lot of voters.

Greer, what are some of those issues that you think are going to be kind of swing decisions for voters in the state?

- Yeah, I think it does come down to decency, as well.

I know that Steve and I have talked before, and many are talking about this new political environment, especially in the age of Trump and Trumpism politics.

I think decency, what those statements are that these political candidates are making, be it Robinson, or Stein, are going to be important.

How are they reaching out, and trying to connect with North Carolinians?

Are they preaching a message of uplift or division?

I also think that money, financial economics, that is always going to be top of mind, because people want to put food on the table, they wanna support their family.

And I think for young people, in particular, gun violence is going to be key in this race.

I think we're also looking at issues of gender and sexuality, how these candidates are discussing that.

And how we are reaching out to those around America, and wanting to bring in more residents to this state, businesses to this state.

And we've already been down the HB2 road, and Steve alluded to it earlier, but I think another issue is the environment.

That's something that's very key as we think about climate change, as we think about our changing world.

And what does that mean for us as we look at prospects of staying, not only alive, but making sure that we're not harming the environment that keeps us alive every day.

So those are some of the the key issues that I think myself.

And then, of course, healthcare, with recent Medicaid expansion, North Carolinians are going to pay attention to in this upcoming gubernatorial race.

- Yeah.

You mentioned gun control, Steve.

We've had a lot of local gun threats and scares, even some that happened just this week.

How important will the topic of gun laws be for voters?

And is it true in this state, right now, you don't need a permit to purchase?

- Well, it is true in this state right now, you don't need a permit to purchase.

And I think it's just very scary.

I mean, we had a couple shootings in Morrisville recently even, Durham, you know, all over, Goldsboro, right?

I think, we talked about the precedent of success.

I mean, he did have success getting gun reform legislation passed, so, hopefully, at the federal level, we can have that.

But I think it's critically important.

Just like the legislature did on Medicaid, to come together and expand Medicaid, this is something that we needed, you know, more stringent background checks, making sure that.

I don't see how it's safer for someone to just be able to purchase a weapon without going through a permit process.

And without saying, there are Second Amendment rights.

I have many friends that are lawful gun owners, but I think, as I've said time and time again, we have too many guns getting in the hands of the wrong people that are mentally ill. And until we solve that, we're gonna wake up every day, and we're gonna see these shootings, in our schools, and our churches, and movie theaters, restaurants, bars.

And you just think of these children, and the parents of these children who are losing their kids in school.

No child should be dropped off at school with the presumption or, you know, that they need to pray that they're gonna be safe through the day.

Right?

So yeah, I think, absolutely, it's gonna be an important issue for voters.

It's a sensitive issue, and, unfortunately, the NRA has a lot of money, so they're gonna be backing federal candidates and state candidates, and I think that's sometimes what makes them hesitant to move the needle on this issue.

- Yeah.

I don't know if I've missed it, but I haven't seen any women lining up for the seat of governor.

Anything to add there, Steve?

- Well, you know, I haven't either.

We've only had one in the history.

Beverly Perdue, and I would like to see a woman run for governor.

Just a few names I'll throw out there for fun.

You know, Deborah Ross, actually a congresswoman, I think would be a great governor.

If she could lead the Congress, I think she would be a very viable candidate.

Former Justice Cheri Beasley, Machelle Sanders who's the commerce secretary, an African American woman who's been a great commerce secretary for our governor, came from rural area, ran a biotech company.

And I often joke with Gail Adcock, senator, that she reminds me of Beverly Perdue.

She's short, but she's very smart, very spunky, and she has a lot of energy, and has a healthcare background.

And then the Republican side, Aaron Pare, possibly, or Cathy Truitt, who would run on the Republican side.

So those are just some thoughts.

I don't think we're gonna see it happen, but, I hope, that we get more women to run for governor.

And I think that, you know, it's something that we should see and precedent, as well.

- Yeah, me too.

I hope we see it soon.

Maybe not this time, but next time around.

Well it looks like a few North Carolina senators are pleading for Disney's Mickey Mouse to be set free.

Earlier in the month, North Carolina State Senator, Michael Garrett, filed State Bill 594, the Mickey's Freedom Restoration Act, aimed at bringing Disney's popular theme parks to the state.

Steve, how much enthusiasm are you hearing for this in legislation, or is this somehow a stunt directed at the state of Florida?

- Well, I think it doesn't really have a chance of passing from what I've heard.

And I do think it's really a political statement against the Don't Say Gay bill, and Governor DeSantis, and the efforts that he's made as the governor of Florida, to really fight Disney, and which I think is, you know, just terrible.

You know, anybody would want an economic development project.

When you think of Disney, $75 billion of investment in Central Florida a year, $5.8 billion of state taxes coming in, employing 21 million people.

- It almost sounds like an Amazon or one of those large mega projects.

I personally don't want Disney World to move anywhere.

I'd like to go to Orlando.

And I think Disney World is really the best example of what we should be proud of in America.

Walt Disney's dream, being an inspiration to millions around the world.

So I will say this.

I have heard that Universal Studios is looking at expanding their theme park kind of resorts outside of California and Florida.

So perhaps this is a play to say we might not get the whole Disney World, but maybe we could get a universal theme park.

But I want EPCOT, I want the Star Wars exhibit.

I want the Magic Kingdom.

- You want it all.

- I want it in Orlando.

- Oh, you want it in Orlando?

Got it.

- 'Cause I can go to Orlando with my family or my wife when I'm an empty nester to go see the Star Wars exhibit.

- Good, I totally agree with you there.

As far as being a great state to do business in, how do you think, Greer, North Carolina's social, political climate stacks up against Florida's especially with our heavy Republican legislator?

- Yeah, well, I do think there are a few differences, Kenia.

I mean, I grew up on Mickey Mouse clubhouse too so it would be cool to, you know, have them come on inside and have some fun here in North Carolina.

But I think that, yeah, North Carolina is a very diverse state.

It's different in some regards than Florida but I do think that it's important to stay inclusive.

It's important to cater to those who may want to do business here and show off all that North Carolina has to offer because we have a lot.

- [Kenia] Yeah, we do.

We definitely have a lot.

Steve, what will such a large attraction in our state do for our economy?

You kind of mentioned the numbers before.

What would that do?

Any foreseeable negative impacts though that it might have?

- Well, I think when you have these, and I've worked on economic development at the local level.

But we even saw this when Apple made their announcement of just 3000 jobs.

And of course with VinFast and the expansion of Wolfspeed, I think the issues to be concerned about is do we have the transportation infrastructure ready to take on all these new cars and roads for economic development project?

Overcrowding of schools, this is a big problem in Wake County.

Frequent assignments, not being able to build schools rapidly enough even though we continue to pass pawns.

The other thing we often don't talk about, and we actually had this issue happen in Mooresville, is energy.

The town in Mooresville, we found out we had to approve a substation close to where I live because we went from 100 megawatt load to 125 megawatt load.

And literally ran out of electric capacity, electricity energy capacity because of the life science industry, pharma.

So water, energy, electricity, transportation, schools.

These are all issues that our commerce department, our governor, our economic development partnership in North Carolina need to make sure that we are prepared for.

And DOT money is falling short.

So I know the legislature's looking at how do they change the funding formulas for roads.

But yeah, I think there are challenges that come with growth.

And I think that it's something we have to take seriously.

- Yeah, I thought of transportation but I didn't think of energy.

So that's a great point.

Greer, a little under two minutes left here.

We're seeing so much rapid growth throughout the state.

Is there such a thing as too much growth too quickly?

- I think there definitely is.

As I mentioned earlier and and was alluding to with Steve, there's so much that North Carolina has to offer.

You've got the mountains, you've got the coast, you've got the in between.

You have tech, you have sports, you have powerful education institutes, HBCUs and so North Carolina is a growing state.

We see young people are moving here and wanting to work here and live here.

You have Charlotte and Raleigh and the culture, the former Black Wall Street and the still reality of diversity of Durham.

And I think it's very important to make sure we're not growing too fast, meaning we wanna make sure that everyone is able to live comfortably.

We're wanting to make sure that we have violence under control.

We see gang and gun violence across the state continuing to if not stay steady to rise.

And that's something that I'm certainly interested in addressing if we want to continue to grow at this level.

So when we think about housing, when we think about transportation and energy.

And then when we think about issues like gun violence, like healthcare, do we have everything?

Are we doing everything we can in this state to make it a viable option for people to move here, to stay here?

To not only generate and gain wealth, but to live in a way that provides them sustainability?

And assurance that they can make it both economically and socially?

And so politically I guess I'll wrap by saying this, North Carolina is diverse politically as well.

We have seen a push to the right, a lean to the right here over the past decade really.

And it's very important that we continue to be tolerant, but also to be progressive and work toward a future that includes everyone.

- Steve Raoul, Greer Webb as always, thank you so much for your insight and knowledge.

- Thanks, Kenia.

- Pleasure to be here.

- We invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the #blackissuesforum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS video app.

Thank you for watching.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

[upbeat music] ♪ ♪ - [Narrator] Black Issues Forum is a production of PBS North Carolina with support from the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.