- [Narrator] From the PBS Utah Studios on the campus of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City, the Utah Debate Commission welcomes you to the Democratic Primary Candidate Debate for Utah's first congressional district.

(upbeat music) - Welcome, I'm Max Roth, moderator for this exchange, and on behalf of the Utah Debate Commission, thank you for joining us.

Today, we'll hear from the four candidates vying for the Utah Democratic Party's nomination for Utah's first congressional district.

Now, these candidates qualified for the primary ballot, either through the support of delegates at the state nominating convention, by gathering signatures from registered Utah voters, or in some cases, both.

The candidates are Nate Blouin, Liban Mohamed, Ben McAdams, and Michael Farrell.

And we look forward to an engaging and civil discussion with the goal of helping Utah voters make informed decisions.

Candidates will each receive one minute to answer questions with up to 30 seconds for rebuttals, if needed.

That's at my discretion.

A random drawing held prior to the debate determined that candidate Blouin will get the initial response to the first question.

We will then alternate turns on the remaining questions.

So now let's begin.

Mr.

Blouin, what is the single biggest challenge facing Utah's first congressional district today, and what makes you uniquely prepared to address this and represent the district?

- Thank you, Max.

Thank you everyone for being here.

It's been an honor to fight for Utahans as a state senator, as someone who has represented folks in my community for four years now.

This election is really about one single thing.

I see that as a system that is rigged against working people.

We need to stand up to the corporate interests, to the outside groups that are coming into our politics and jacking up prices against working people in our community.

So during my time in the State Senate, I have constantly challenged entrenched power.

I have never shied away from having big conversations, from taking on big landlords, the fossil fuel industry, big utilities, big tech.

It is so important that we have trusted leaders.

I have the endorsement of Bernie Sanders in this race.

I'm endorsed by labor unions and other community leaders.

I'm the only candidate that you can trust in this campaign to stand up for working people in our district.

- Thank you, Mr.

Blouin.

Mr.

Mohamed.

- Utah, thank you for tuning in, and (indistinct) to those who observe.

What a moment this is.

I'm so excited to be here.

This is gonna be a really fun day.

Yes, I won the Utah Democratic Convention with 51% of the vote running on a simple platform, tackling the number one issue that I'm hearing from voters.

Americans and our government need to begin focusing on our diplomacy abroad, and most importantly, our own dignity right here at home.

And when elected to Congress, you can count on me to stand up and fight for you each and every day with fulfilling this vision.

At a time when our government prioritizes corporate greed, the war machine over the ordinary people, the working class over us, it is time for a new generation of leadership that is not taking corporate PAC money, not taking APAC money, but focused on taking dollars from the small dollar donations from our community.

- Thank you, Mr.

Mohamed.

Mr.

McAdams.

- Thank you Max.

Look, as Democrats, there's a lot that we will agree on tonight, but the decision for you isn't only about who shares our values, it's about who do you count on to put our values into action.

And I've actually done it.

I voted to impeach Donald Trump knowing it would cost me my election.

I led the charge to pass LGBTQ non-discrimination protections in Utah.

I share your values and I deliver results, even when it's hard.

Tonight, you're gonna hear a lot of buzzwords and catchphrases, probably that sound good, but let me be clear, slogans are not solutions.

Passing a law is harder than promising one.

And the people who are counting on us, they don't care what a politician says.

They care what actually changes.

They care if the rent goes down.

They care if healthcare is affordable.

They care if we save the Great Salt Lake.

They care if government works for them.

Being progressive has to mean making progress.

Utah Democrats, I have fought and won many of our hardest battles, and tonight I tell you, I'm ready to do it again.

- Thank you Mr.

McAdams.

Mr.

Farrell.

- Thanks Max.

The number one issue, I'll answer the question, the number one issue I think facing folks in CD 1 is how expensive everything is.

We have a government filled with people that do not care about ordinary Americans.

Affordable healthcare, they don't care.

Housing, they don't care.

Education, they do not care.

They are cutting taxes for rich people.

They're giving money to their donors.

They're working with corporations to pillage our public plans for resources.

Well, I'm gonna get in Congress, and I'm going to drive down the cost of healthcare, drive down the cost of housing by building starter homes, and drive down the cost of education so that people can actually invest in their futures.

They can actually invest in reaching the American dream because we have such an out of touch federal government, and I've seen that for years, an out of touch federal government that doesn't know what people need.

Whether they're too old or they haven't had lived experiences, we need change.

We need people who have actually lived those experiences, and I have.

- Alright, thank you for that.

And as we alternate responses, it's going to be this question to, you Mr.

Mohamed.

This is about immigration.

Immigration reform has been debated for years in Congress with little resolution.

If elected, what are the specific immigration reforms you would actively push for in Congress and what are your specific strategies to successfully pass these reforms?

- Look, as a son of immigrants who experiences what it's like to deal with the rhetoric of the current leadership that we have, Donald Trump in this MAGA movement, specifically coming after Somali Americans.

My parents were born in Somalia.

They immigrated here and they sought asylum, and were welcomed by our beautiful Utah community and treated with such dignity.

Dignity that feels like it's being stripped away from us today.

Our neighbors are immigrants, some of them are our family members.

What we need to do is this.

Abolish ICE and build an immigration system that is rooted in our shared humanity.

We need to make sure that we have pathways to citizenship for all of our undocumented neighbors.

We need to make sure that each and every person that steps on the land of the United States of America has rights, and make sure, they have legal representation and due process.

We need to make sure that we're not only protecting families from being separated, but we're reuniting them.

It's our time to lead.

- Thank you.

Mr.

McAdams.

- Thank you, let me start by saying that I would oppose and use every tool at my disposal to stop the ICE detention center that's proposed for our backyard.

I grew up, my mom was a school teacher, and I grew up, I remember learning in elementary school about Topaz, the Japanese internment camp.

And I remember distinctly a conversation with my mom about asking her, "How could we do such a horrific thing?

How could the good people of Utah support and see our neighbors locked up and put in an internment camp?"

Well, this detention center will be a scar on the face of Utah, and we must stop it.

But it doesn't stop there.

We also must get ICE out of our American cities.

We must hold ICE accountable.

Of course, that starts with things like body cams, removing the masks, requiring warrants, requiring due process, but that is the bare minimum.

And look, our challenges with immigration is bigger than just ICE.

It's about reforming Custom and Border Patrol, the Department of Homeland Security, and as mayor, I have experience of actually doing this exact stuff.

I created the office for New Americans, the United for Citizenship Campaign that helped people on their pathway to citizenship.

Thank you.

- Thank you and Mr.

Farrell.

- We have been talking about our broken immigration system for at least five, six decades.

We need people who have lived through this experience and who actually care, and are going to fight to help undocumented persons.

I do hundreds of hours of work with undocumented persons, helping them get through a horrible (indistinct) process that is designed to crush people's spirits and leave them scared and on the outside.

We need to abolish ICE, fight the detention center, Topaz 2.0.

We need to take the funding that is going to ICE right now and we need to put it into hiring hundreds of immigration judges, because that's the holdup.

The people in DC don't want the process to work.

They're not hiring judges.

They're letting people linger in fear and in silence.

So ending that, banning masks for any federal officials, and ending qualified immunity for any agents or officers that violate the law.

They cannot be hiding behind this fake shield anymore.

- Thank you and Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you, I agree with others on this stage, that we need to abolish ICE.

I ran a bill just this legislative session trying to bring folks out to make sure that we do not have the sort of local cooperation with federal immigration enforcement that we have been seeing in our communities.

Unfortunately, Republicans did not support that bill and it died in the Senate.

We do need to establish real pathways to citizenship, reestablish refugee programs, so that people from overseas escaping atrocities have a place here in our communities.

On day one, I will be performing oversight.

If we see this detention facility, which I am committed to fighting as hard as I can against, I will be out there on the first day of my term surveying that facility and making sure that people are being treated humanely, because that system has propagandized far too many and it needs to go in a very different direction.

We do need to hire a lot more judges to actually process these applications to make sure that people can feel welcome in our community because that is what has made our country strong.

- Thank you.

This next question begins with Mr.

McAdams.

We're talking about water and the Great Salt Lake, crucial issues in Utah.

President Trump's proposed budget includes $1 billion in funding for restoration of the Great Salt Lake.

As a member of Congress, would you support that specific budget item, why or why not, and what can we do with money to ensure that water gets to the lake?

- Thank you.

Saving the Great Salt Lake is an existential question for the people of Utah.

It will be my number one priority.

And look, if Zohran can work with Donald Trump, then, to save the Great Salt Lake, I can work with him too.

We must secure that funding to make sure that we save this lake.

This is about the air we breathe, it's about the place that we call home, and we must take actions to do that.

So addressing the Great Salt Lake's gonna take really an all hands on deck, every solution that we can.

It's gonna require each and every one of us minimizing our water use.

But that won't get us there enough.

We have to eradicate invasive species along the Jordan River, the Phragmites and the Russian olives that consume so much water.

We can eradicate those and get more water to the lake.

We will not save the lake, unless we address agricultural uses.

So that money can be used for agricultural leases, for re-appropriation of agricultural water, and getting really the water that we need to to restore this lake to a healthy level.

- Thank you, Mr.

Farrell?

- Yeah, I would happily work with Donald Trump to bring in more funding for the Great Salt Lake.

We could call it the Great Trump Lake if he wants to save it.

I don't care.

The most important thing is saving the lake.

If we lose that, Salt Lake City is done, Utah is done.

It is an existential crisis.

It is a nuclear bomb waiting to happen.

To save that, we do need, we need an all hands approach, bringing in more federal funding, so we can bring more water into the Great Salt Lake, whether that be from Bear Lake, Lake Powell, it does not matter.

We need more water and we need to cap agricultural use of water.

85% of water used in Utah is agricultural.

15% is home consumption.

But we're told that, oh, we have to conserve our water.

Yes, we do, but you know who else does?

Large alfalfa farmers.

We need to put a tax on excessive water consumption by agricultural producers, and we need to ban data centers nationwide.

I'm running to represent Utah.

We need to ban them nationwide.

We cannot be wasting our resources on these things when we're about to lose the Great Salt Lake.

- [Max] Alright, Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you.

During my first legislative session, one of the first bills that I ran was actually a bill to set a target elevation on the Great Salt Lake.

It would've allowed us to actually shoot for a healthy level for our economy and for our public health.

I worked in concert with advocates in that space and it was basically laughed off, but we still see this conversation occurring today, because it's such an important thing to shoot for.

I'm excited today to announce that I have the endorsement of the National Sierra Club.

They have fought alongside me in the legislature, and they know that I am committed to taking on the big interests that are depleting the lake and causing so many problems in our communities.

We need to focus on the funding aspect here.

I have said recently that I think eminent domain is an acceptable use for securing water rights for the Great Salt Lake.

That billion dollars that Trump put forward is a start, but we need that every year.

And I will fight for a billion dollars a year to actually solve this problem in the long term by the time the 2034 Olympics roll around.

- Thank you and Mr.

Mohamed.

- Look, the Great Salt Lake is and always has been integral to Utah.

And not only is this a problem for the ecosystem, all of the waters, all of the birds that rely on the Great Salt Lake, our wildlife, but it's a public health crisis, an imminent one at that.

If the Great Salt Lake doesn't get saved, it's gonna put arsenic, mercury, lead into the air.

And I used to be the Government Relations Director for American Heart Association taking on the number one cause of death in Utah, the nation, the world: cardiovascular disease.

And when I was there, I got real things done.

Two times prior to when I ran it, bills like CPR requirements in our schools or for emergency dispatchers, they failed, but when I ran them, they passed.

And I'm gonna do that when I go to Congress for the Great Salt Lake.

Real funding now, making sure that we reform our water rights policies and take on people who are extracting from us.

- Thank you.

This next question goes first to Mr.

Farrell, and we're talking about the economy and affordability.

In Utah, the cost of housing is getting further out of reach.

So imagine, a young teacher in your district calls your office, you pick up the phone, and she has been priced out of three different apartments this year and is considering leaving Utah.

You have just a few minutes with her on the phone.

What do you tell her and what is the first call you make after getting off that phone?

- Yeah, I tell her that that breaks my heart.

I tell her that growing up, the American dream is to own a home, start a family.

That is rapidly slipping away from people's fingers.

I will, I'll tell her, that I will, we will be in Congress, and we will get more federal funding for starter homes for first time home buyers.

We will convert the mortgage interest deduction, which overwhelmingly benefits the rich, we'll convert that into a refundable tax credit to make her life easier from day one.

We will create a $25,000 down payment assistant program for first time home buyers, so that she can actually afford to get into a house.

And so she doesn't have to struggle with jumping from apartment to apartment.

She can actually settle down.

She can actually put roots down in Utah.

She doesn't have to leave the state because it's too expensive.

And we will sell these first time, these homes to first time buyers at cost.

So the federal government is not making a profit off of this, but we're allowing people to go into homes, to settle roots, to actually stay in states they want to build their homes in.

- Thank you.

Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you.

It has been so tragic to watch people have to make decisions about whether they are going to have kids and pay for childcare, or pay for a mortgage for their first home.

Whether people are looking to buy or rent, the prices are out of control.

It is because of the special interests that are driving up prices, that are using algorithms that are profitizing things that should be human rights, like housing, like food, like other things that we need to live with on a daily basis.

During my time in the legislature, I ran a legislation to repeal treble damages, which is a policy that allows landlords to sue tenants for three times the amount of damages that they owe.

It's ridiculous.

I'm surprised I'm not the first person on the stage to mention Zohran Mamdani, but his approach in New York of expanding supply and creating strong tenant protections to actually take on bad landlords and keep people in their houses, rather than creating more homelessness, it's the right approach.

- Thank you.

Mr.

Mohamed.

- The first thing that we're gonna do is recognize that we don't only have legislative powers and appropriating powers when we're in Congress, we're a community leader.

And like other community leaders who are doing the good work, first thing we gotta do is make sure we call her, answer that phone, and tell her that there's resources out there for them.

A lot of our Congressional offices right now are forgetting that they're serving the constituents, and they need to make sure that they're empowering those who want to help to be able to help her in real time.

On top of that, we need to recognize housing is a human right, not a corporate speculative asset.

We need to make sure that these large corporations are not taking over our neighborhoods and prohibiting them from purchasing single family homes.

They're doing that for 25% of all housing purchases right now.

We need to make sure that they're not using algorithms to price fix.

There's just cause eviction rules.

We need to make sure that we close the two, what is it, 3 to 4 million housing supply gap that we have right now?

Build affordable and social homes rapidly.

- [Max] Alright, thank you.

Mr.

McAdams.

- Thank you.

That question is personal to me.

My mother is that woman.

She raised, she was a school teacher, she raised kids mostly on her own, six kids.

And you know, I remember times as a kid that the power was shut off because we couldn't pay our bills, that our home was in foreclosure and we were worried about losing our home.

And thankfully, there were resources like government, neighbors, family, the church that stepped in to help us.

But you know, this really hits home for me.

I would tell that woman that there are great people out there on the front lines doing hard work today, Housing Authority of Salt Lake City, of West Valley City, of Salt Lake County.

There are incredible nonprofits.

When I was leading work to do homelessness, we identified the number one priorities, keeping people in a home, because once they're homeless, it's so much harder to get them back into a home.

And actually over the last five years, I've been leading work to solve the housing crisis.

I work with cities and counties across the country.

One of the cities we worked with was the city of Atlanta.

Based on my work, they're building 12,000 affordable housing units.

We can solve this problem, but it's gonna take leadership who knows, leaders who know how to build coalitions.

- This next question is going to go to Mr.

Blouin first, and I have the honor of introducing a student who will be asking it.

Abigail Simmons is a student here at the University of Utah studying anthropology and Spanish and she's also asking about economic issues.

- Yeah, so housing is not the only financial issue facing Utahans, and especially young Utahans today.

We have high gas and grocery prices, unaffordable childcare costs, and increasingly exclusionary and competitive job market.

So how do you plan to alleviate the financial burden that Utahans are facing today?

- Mr.

Blouin?

- Thank you.

Thank you for the question, Abigail.

I read a story the other day about Utah becoming the least friendly place for recent college graduates.

And this is so sad that recent graduates from our great universities are losing out on opportunities that they have had in the past.

So that is because of housing, that is because of the cost of food, the lack of great jobs for folks in our communities.

And that's because, you're seeing these special interests come in and raise prices and profitize everything.

So we will look at a raft of policies.

I think the number one issue for me right now is healthcare and moving forward with Medicare for All to make sure that people in college, as they are hitting that 26 year age, where they lose their parents' healthcare, they can find something better.

And that is a commitment that I have made along with the support of Bernie Sanders and the other folks who are backing our campaign to really take on the big special interests that are creating so much profit, but not giving back and making millions off of the backs of working people.

- [Max] Thank you, Mr.

Mohamed.

- This is getting right back into the number one issue in this nation that I'm hearing from voters.

It's not only just affordability, it's the fact that we are the richest nation in the history of humanity, yet, most Americans are still being left behind, and it's a priority issue.

If we keep prioritizing the war machine, corporate greed, subsidizing corporations time and time again, acting like that's the solution to affordable housing.

Like Ben McAdams here, instead of rapidly building more affordable and social housing, making sure that we have just cause eviction rules, making sure we're doing things like alleviating people from student debt.

Look, the resources are abundant.

If we're the wealthiest in the history of the humanity, the issue is not scarcity, it's how those resources are being allocated.

And for as long as we're prioritizing billionaire tax breaks over serving the average person, for as long as Elon Musk has 53% of the wealth compared to the bottom half of the nation, it's not gonna work.

- [Max] Mr.

McAdams, you would get a rebuttal, because you were mentioned there, if you weren't the next person to answer the question, but if you need an extra 15 seconds to address that, that is fine.

- Thank you.

Again, I worked my way through college at the University of Utah.

I worked three part-time jobs and sold my plaza, and I still couldn't get by, but for the help of Pell grants and student loans.

And I look at my kids, and I have kids now that are college age and they work harder than ever, and they are struggling to get by.

So this is a problem we must solve.

It's no wonder that young people feel disaffected and disillusioned by their government.

I will say again that passing a law is harder than promising one.

Solutions are achievable, but we must have leaders who know how to build coalitions and to get things done.

The first thing, I liked what Mr.

Mohamed said, "We must end this reckless, unconstitutional war," that has driven up the price of gasoline, driving up the cost of food.

We must, I think, reverse the tax cuts for billionaires in Trump's so-called Big Beautiful Bill that gave enormous tax cuts for billionaires and passed it on to working people in the form of cuts to Snap and ACA benefits.

We must address this for the people who are really hurting.

- [Max] All right.

- Thank you.

- [Max] And Mr.

Farrell.

- Yeah, I am a tax attorney by trade.

We desperately need to tax the rich.

We have a broken tax system that puts most of the burden for funding our social safety net, as beaten down as it is by Republicans, onto the shoulders of middle class folks.

It's unacceptable.

When I'm in office, we are going to tax the rich.

I'm gonna follow after Zohran Mamdani.

We are going to put in a wealth tax.

I'm going to increase rates on billionaires and millionaires, and what I'm gonna do with that is lower taxes on folks in the 90% below.

Like, they shouldn't be shouldering as much of the burden as they are, and they are because the rich buy and trade in politicians.

I will also be going after price gougers in grocery prices and food.

We will convert our energy system to clean renewable energy to drive down utility costs.

I will fight tooth and nail for single payer healthcare to drive down the cost of healthcare and make it affordable for everyday Americans, and cut down the prices of education by forgiving all student loan debt and capping federal interest rates on a go forward basis at 0% if they ever come back.

- All right, and before the next question, let's reset.

We have now reached the halfway point of the debate featuring the primary election candidates for the Utah Democratic Party's nomination for Utah's first congressional district.

If you are just joining us, I'm Max Roth, moderator for this presentation of the Utah Debate Commission.

We are coming to you from PBS Utah and their studios on the campus of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

Now, let's get back to these questions.

Now, we've been talking about the cost of living.

I want to get to the cost of healthcare.

The cost of healthcare is still the number one reason people go into debt and even into bankruptcy, leading to the loss of housing and jobs.

What specific policies will you pursue to make healthcare more affordable and accessible for your constituents?

And Mr.

Mohamed, you get this question first.

- Look, again, we spend more money on healthcare than any nation on earth in the history of humanity.

Yet, we are the only wealthy nation that does not guarantee coverage.

It is clear, it's not the resources at hand that's the issue.

It's how those resources are being allocated.

With a single payer system, such as Medicare for All, we could provide full coverage for everyone, increasing the quality of care, with the kicker, lowering overall costs.

It's a no-brainer solution.

And the only reason it does not occur is because of the unlimited money that is allowed to be spent in politics because of Citizens United, Buckley, SpeechNow, and how that owns politicians like Ben McAdams, or performative folks, like Nate Blouin, who says the right things, but has never passed a bill in the history of his tenure of the entire legislature.

Actually, statistically, the most ineffective person since Utah has existed.

What it calls for is a new generation of leadership that understands that we can have healthcare for all the 300,000 Utahans and get it done.

- [Max] And Mr.

Blouin, you were mentioned there.

I'm gonna give you 30 seconds for a rebuttal.

- Thank you.

Yeah, during my time in the legislature, I have done everything I can to move the needle.

That has meant going up against Republicans and Democrats alike.

It's challenging.

We see Democrats taking money from the same pharma companies, the same corporate PACS, that Republicans do in Utah, and I have fought against that.

I'm having a hard time understanding how folks who are watching this debate will trust someone like Liban Mohamed, who has actually worked in the past for the same lobbying firm that is pushing Kevin O'Leary's data center into our backyard.

- Thank you.

Now, Mr.

McAdams, we'll get to your question, although, I'm just realizing Mr.

Mohamed, he did mention that, working for the firm that is supporting the data center.

Do you have a response to that?

- That's false.

But I will say this, I worked in tech.

I quit big tech.

He performs for big tech.

He's owned by big tech.

I know big tech and I'm going to do what it takes to hold them accountable.

I know what it takes to hold them accountable.

I quit for the very purposes of standing up on this stage and calling for prohibitions on data centers in Utah and all other water stress areas.

I said this from the day I entered this campaign.

He just wants to pause, just delay the issue.

A prohibition answers it.

- [Max] Okay, that's time.

Mr.

McAdams, you've also been mentioned, and just now, owned by big tech.

So 30 seconds for rebuttal and then after that I want to get us back to healthcare.

And that is the question about the number one reason people go into debt and what you will do to change that.

- Look, I don't even think that dignifies a response.

I've never changed my position, and for me, the only thing that matters is doing what's right by the people who are counting on us to deliver results.

I said earlier about my mother raising six kids, mostly on her own.

What I didn't say was that she dealt with a chronic health issue.

She was in and out of the hospital a couple of times while we were kids.

She almost died.

And my sister was diagnosed as a type one diabetic, went into a diabetic coma at age four.

We lived in fear of what a preexisting condition would mean.

We lived in fear of losing our healthcare coverage, and we knew medical debt, and that was the driving force that kept our family on the edge.

Look, I said at the beginning, there's a lot of things that we're gonna agree on up here.

I think as Democrats, we all agree that healthcare is a right, and we must support measures that will guarantee universal access to healthcare for every American.

The difference is not whether.

The difference is how.

I led the fight to expand Medicaid in Utah, build a statewide framework through the targeted adult medicaid system that then went on to be passed by ballot initiative as a full Medicaid expansion.

I support universal coverage, and I believe the best way to get there is through a public option that allow people to choose the healthcare that's best for them, and build a coalition that can actually get that done.

I supported measures in Congress to bring down the price of prescription drugs, to expand access to insulin.

And again, proud of my work that expanded Medicaid in Utah, expanding coverage to 180,000 Utahans.

- And Mr.

Farrell, healthcare?

- Thank you.

Yeah, single payer healthcare is the solution.

When I was 21, my mom got sick and she was a waitress.

She didn't have very much money, she had no savings.

She was in the hospital for five days, and she left with a terminal diagnosis and a $150,000 bill.

When she died six months later, after us being hounded by the hospital, they offered to settle for $40, which was awfully generous of them.

That is an evil system.

That is not a system that needs to be incrementally reformed.

That's a system that needs to be broken and revolutionized.

So single payer healthcare is a solution and I have a plan to get us there.

It's pretty easy.

Getting rid of the tax deduction in preference for employer sponsored health insurance premiums.

Then, that money goes back into your pockets.

Then, we lower the age of Medicare eligibility to zero.

Boom, you're in it.

Then, we slightly raise the Medicare tax that already applies to wealthy people.

It's three steps.

The only reason that hasn't happened is because most members of Congress are bought and paid for by big pharma.

When I'm in Congress, that ends.

- [Max] Alright and Mr.

Blouin to the subject of healthcare.

- Thank you.

The other day I was knocking doors in the Sugar House area and I opened the door, a young man opened the door, and he, you could tell he was stressed.

He was under pressure, and he told me that his wife had recently been diagnosed with leukemia.

She was 39, I think, and it was tragic.

And he was baking dinner to go up and take to her at Huntsman Cancer Institute.

He had to pay for this with a GoFundMe.

This is absurd that in the wealthiest country in the planet, we cannot guarantee healthcare to everyone as a basic right.

That is why Bernie Sanders has endorsed our campaign to fight for Medicare for All, which I will do tooth and nail in Congress.

It is something I have fought for here in Utah.

We need to get big money out of politics.

We need to address all of the pharma companies, all of the insurance companies that are keeping the system operating statuses quo because it is failing millions of Americans.

- Alright, thank you.

Now, the next question is going to begin with Mr.

McAdams and it's going to come from one of our student questioners.

So glad that you are with us.

This is Will Van Wagner, also a student at the University of Utah studying political science.

Will, you're asking about this political climate we're in.

- Thank you.

If elected, you all have policies that you'd like to pass, but doing so is usually easier said than done.

How will each of you approach the process of creating workable legislation, finding the votes needed, and actually getting it passed through Congress?

- Mr.

McAdams?

- Thank you, Will.

Great question.

You know, I have served as State Senator, as a mayor, and as a member of Congress, and I've found that the first place to start with passing legislation is to listen, to build coalitions, and to build, you know, to build a coalition big enough to get it done.

You know, and we talk a lot in politics about courage, and sometimes political courage is about standing up, like I did when I stood up to impeach Donald Trump, knowing it would cost me my election.

But I wanna talk about a different type of political courage.

There's a political courage that requires you to sit down, to stay at the table, when you want nothing more than to walk away from people you may not like, and you certainly disagree with, but you know that you can't stand up and walk away because the people who are counting on us cannot afford for you to walk away from the table.

As a mayor, as a State Senator, I have worked relentlessly to build coalitions to move the needle.

And we've succeeded with things like LGBTQ protections, expanding Medicaid, and other things.

And in lowering the cost of housing, we'll make a difference to families and people who are suffering.

- [Max] Mr.

Farrell?

- Yep, thank you all for the question.

In my practice as an attorney for over a decade, I am always going for a full loaf, and I'm working across the side from other people who want that same loaf.

We come to compromises, we build coalitions.

But you need to come in there fighting for your constituents, fighting to get every single thing you can.

You can't be willing to compromise right when you start.

We need people, I'm gonna come in there.

I will fight tooth and nail for single payer healthcare.

That is core value for me.

That is why I'm here, what happened to my mother.

I don't want anyone to ever go through that, what I went through, what she went through.

But I understand, we can't make perfect the enemy of good.

We're gonna, I'm gonna fight for single payer healthcare.

I will never compromise on that.

But if we can get prescription drug prices capped with some Republicans on board, fine, we move towards that.

That is the ultimate goal.

But building coalitions, that's what this is all about.

People will think, oh, we don't have enough progressives in Congress to get it done.

We need someone who knows how to work with other folks and build a coalition, and I do.

That's what I've done the past decade as an attorney.

- [Max] Thank you Mr.

Farrell.

Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you.

I was looking forward to working with folks like Thomas Massey, believe it or not in Congress, who just lost reelection because the same donors, the same people that are supporting Ben McAdams campaign spent millions to take him out and deny him his spot in office.

He has stood on principle on issues I agree with him on, on issues I do not, but he was a good example of someone who would stand up and do what he thought was the right thing.

And now he's gone because they dumped tens of millions of dollars into the most expensive Congressional race ever.

I have done the hard work of working hard on a bill, of passing it through the Senate, only to have Republicans in the House put politics over people.

And ran it the next year under someone else's name and gotten those bills passed with no recognition.

I think it's important to have both of those skills to stand up and to fight from a place of strength, and be willing to compromise, when it means moving the needle forward.

But let's not start from a weak position.

- [Max] Alright, thank you.

And Mr.

McAdams, you'll get a few seconds to rebut that, but we're going to wait until after Mr.

Mohamed has had a chance to answer this question, and it's the student's question about this political climate and how you get things done.

- To get things done requires somebody with a certain type of character.

I mean, when I was at the American Heart Association, I got CPR requirements and funding for every single student from here on out in high school to have that training, despite it failing two times when my predecessors ran it, but I got it done unanimously.

Working with Republicans, working with centrist, I'll work with anyone because I want to make sure that we have tangible outcomes.

I got postpartum Medicaid extension done from 60 days to a year, helping new mothers when they need it most, helping our black mothers who disproportionately face maternal mortality compared to community members.

The reason they blew in is not able to pass a bill is not because progressives don't get bills done.

There's many progressives that get them done in Utah.

The reason is because of his character, similar character to what was shown today with the lie that he just mentioned now, without naming the firm, not even mentioning that he filed an amendment himself and worked for a lobbying firm, and said that he was doing communications.

- [Max] Thank you.

Mr.

McAdams, some time for a rebuttal.

Mr.

Blouin, we'll give you some time as well.

Remember, you don't need to use the full 30 seconds.

- Thank you.

Yeah, no, I think it's worth mentioning, as Mr.

Mohamed said, Nate Blouin has been in the State Senate for four years and has never passed a bill.

That is not true for any other Democrat in the state legislature, never passed legislation.

Look, promising a law is so much easier than actually passing one.

Passing legislation requires coming out with a bold vision, coming out with a plan, and then working with people to build a coalition to get it done.

I would just ask you to look at our track records, not look at what the candidates have said, but look at what we've actually done.

- [Max] Alright.

And Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you, yeah, I'm talking about Lincoln Shurtz, who was just acknowledged as one of the lobbyists working on behalf of Kevin O'Leary.

I believe that was deleted from Mr.

Mohamed's LinkedIn page at one point, but you can still find that information.

As to me acting as a lobbyist, I own an LLC that I've used to do communications work.

It is not lobbying.

It is working on behalf of environmental nonprofits.

- Alright, thank you.

And Mr.

Mohamed, you've had a chance to rebut that same thing before, but I'll give you 15 seconds, if you'd like to rebut what he just said.

- I've never ever worked for Lincoln Shurtz.

A lie, his character demonstrated.

- Alright, thank you.

And we will move on to the next question, and it's going to start with Mr.

Farrell.

Mr.

Farrell, if elected, you will likely be Utah's only Democrat in Congress.

So how do you view the difference in your job with constituents in your district, but also with Democrats and other citizens outside of your district who may see you as an ally?

- Yeah, that is an important point.

I think that the representative that CD 1 will have will be kind of the state figurehead for the Democratic party, and I think that's important to remember.

It has to be someone who has actually gotten things done.

I'm a partner at a law firm.

I've been an attorney for over 12 years.

I've gotten things done.

I know how to build coalitions.

I will deliver in Congress.

If we send someone to Congress from this seat who gets nothing done, who passes zero bills, who just says, you know, fancy words and platitudes meaningless.

Why would anybody care about supporting Utah Democrats?

We're gonna show them that it's not worth fighting for us.

We're gonna show them that we can't deliver.

Well, when I'm elected, I'm going to deliver.

I'm going to deliver affordable housing, affordable education, affordable healthcare, so that people statewide can look to me as a model, can rely on me as an ally to help them.

And to help the Utah Democratic Party, help down ballot, break the super majority that the GOP has in the state legislature.

- [Max] Thank you.

Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you.

I have more members of Congress that have endorsed our campaign, more labor unions that have endorsed our campaign than every other candidate on this stage combined.

There is a crowd waiting to work with me day one in DC.

I am excited to hit the ground running, to work for Medicare for All, for raising the minimum wage, a policy that Ben McAdams has voted against, to fight for reproductive freedom, a policy that Ben McAdams has voted against.

We will get to work immediately to start delivering for our constituents here in Utah.

I have done the hard work of being a State Senator and helping down ballot candidates.

I've been supporting candidates for my own seat, for other seats, and I want to continue building this party to make sure that it represents every single Utahan, not just the Democratic establishment that you see folks on this stage talking about.

- Alright, thank you.

And Mr.

McAdams, you will get rebuttal time if you need it.

And I think you've all seen that people will get more time on camera if you mention their name, just so you know.

Mr.

Mohamed, this is on the question of Democratic representation, if you're the only Utah Democratic in Congress.

- Look, this moment, this moment is a calling.

We have a new opportunity here.

It is a calling to bring new people into this process.

People who have been left out, shut out, unheard, even abandoned, a calling for us to build a rainbow coalition, a beautiful bouquet of flowers that reflects the full beauty and strength of Utah.

Look, I'm a 27-year-old son of Somali immigrants, proud Muslim man, and I stand here today knowing with conviction that I too belong, and my representation is a reflection of that.

We're going to bring people into this process, expand our elector, help us down the ballot.

Democrats need to be helped down the ballot in Utah, and most importantly, have our values represented in Congress, while simultaneously getting things done.

- [Max] Thank you.

Mr.

McAdams, would you like rebuttal time?

- Yeah, thank you.

First of all this, and I actually need to answer the question too.

I haven't had a chance to answer this question.

- [Max] Oh okay, that was my fault.

Sorry about that - Okay, thank you.

This will not be the first time that I will be the sole Utah Democrat in Utah's Democratic, in Utah's Congressional delegation.

And I will tell you, that job requires you to stand alone.

And there are, and I'm proud of the times that I stood alone and stood out.

I supported the Great American Outdoors Act that invested in our public lands.

I supported a woman's right to choose.

I supported advancing and protecting and raising the minimum wage.

I supported the impeachment of Donald Trump, and I was the sole representative from Utah to do that.

If I'm elected to go back to Congress, there are other issues where I look forward to standing up and standing proud.

I will support Utah's public lands and be a proud champion of the pristine places that we have in our backyard.

I will fight to protect the Central Wasatch.

As a mayor, I led the Mountain Accord effort and I look forward to continuing that work if I'm in Congress.

I look forward to sponsoring the Great American, sorry, the Utah's Red Rock Wilderness to protect our red rock spaces, to protecting Bears Ears to protecting Grand Staircase.

But the job isn't just standing alone.

The job also requires building coalitions.

Saving the Great Salt Lake is gonna be an all hands on deck issue, and I will work with the delegation to do that, just like I worked with Governor Herbert to pass the Utah Navajo Water Rights settlement, that got water to the Navajo Nation.

I've done this job before, and I look forward to doing it again.

- Alright, this next question begins with Mr.

Blouin, and this is about something that we've mentioned in other ways before, but artificial intelligence.

Artificial intelligence is becoming a core driver of national power, economic growth, and government capability.

We're hearing all these things.

Data centers, as we've mentioned, are rapidly expanding in Utah bringing jobs, but also heavy demands on water and energy.

Do you support the creation of large data centers in Utah's first congressional district?

And if you do, why?

If not, why not?

- Thank you, Max.

That's an easy answer.

No, I do not.

We need to be very cognizant of our water issues.

I am, as an energy expert, particularly concerned about the emissions aspect of this and putting all of the emissions of nine gigawatts of new natural gas generation into our airshed would just choke off our communities, even worse than they're being choked off now.

On the land that they're proposing to build the the Box Elder data center project, there are Indian burial sites.

I think that is another critical consideration as we look at where these things could go nationally.

I do not want to see them dumped into communities like is happening in Tennessee that have been historically marginalized.

Elon Musk is degrading their airsheds and killing people in those places, because we are seeing diesel generators used to just dump pollutants everywhere.

We need a full strategy here.

That's why I've called for a moratorium, which likely leads to bans in many places where they are not suitable.

And we need to move forward with this immediately before we start making decisions that are gonna be impactful for decades to come.

- [Max] Mr.

Mohamed.

- A moratorium is a pause, a pause that (indistinct) question.

A prohibition answers it.

I have had a clear position on this from the beginning.

Listen, again, I worked in tech, I know these people.

I know how these companies work, and I know how Congress works 'cause I've been up there for three years doing investigations work, getting things done.

It is time that we make sure that we have comprehensive environmental standards, including prohibitions in Utah and all other water stress areas, including renewable energy requirements, including water neutral requirements, including cost causation rules.

Because if they cause the cost, they should pay for the cost.

Look, Kevin O'Leary's billionaire project that's so great, according to him.

He thinks it's amazing, but for some reason he needs a subsidy.

No, we are not going to be subsidizing the exploitation of our environment and our communities.

There is a way that innovation can benefit us, but it must come still with accountability.

- [Max] Alright, Mr.

McAdams.

- Thank you.

I wanna start by being very clear.

I do not support the data center in Box Elder, and let me tell you why.

It uses too much water.

It has a potentially a very negative impact on the Great Salt Lake.

I'm concerned about the heat island effect.

I'm concerned about the emissions that that center would bring.

And I'm also concerned about the transparency and lack of public process that brought that, that sprung that project into the minds of all of us.

Look, AI is scary.

I say that as a, you know, as a father, as a member of the society.

If I could put that AI genie back in the bottle, I think we would all do it, but we can't.

Artificial intelligence is going to transform our economy, in some good ways and in many bad ways.

What we need are federal standards to make sure that as a economy is transformed, that the American people are the ones who benefit, not tech billionaires, tech moguls, foreign powers, but the American people are benefited through that.

So I'm the only candidate on the stage who has stood up and stopped a data center before, when I was the mayor of Salt Lake County, and I stopped a data center in Salt Lake County because it didn't meet the test that I had articulated.

It wasn't good for the public, it used too much energy, and it was in the wrong place.

Thank you.

- [Max] Alright, Mr.

Farrell.

- Yeah, apologies to the audience.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Ben owns an interest in a data center.

Liban lobbied for data center strategy when he was working as a lobbyist at Meta.

I support a full prohibition on data centers nationwide.

We cannot be using our precious natural resources, for what purpose exactly, to give money to people like Kevin O'Leary?

When this bubble, because it is a bubble, when it inevitably bursts, who's gonna be holding the bag?

Are they?

Absolutely not.

We are gonna be holding the bag again.

We are going to, we the American taxpayers are going to be bailing out these rich jerks who wasted all of our water to advance what, like ChatGPT giving us the wrong answer yet again?

We're gonna have to bail them out again for this.

It is exhausting.

This is why our politics do not work, because our members of Congress, our White House are captured by rich elites who do not care at all about ordinary Americans.

It's exhausting.

I hate it.

That's why I wanna get into DC and change it.

- We are gonna get rebuttals.

Both Mr.

Mohamed and Mr.

McAdams were mentioned, and we are going to, this next question actually relates, and so both of you will get an extra 30 seconds.

This question requires a 30 second answer, so the two of you will each get one minute.

You can answer the accusations and then answer this question.

It's on social media.

Social media raises concerns about individual rights.

How do you understand the role of social media companies as moderators or simply as platform providers?

What is the government's role in this arena, given that social media are international corporations?

Mr.

Mohamed?

- Look, I worked for these companies.

I'm the son of Somali immigrants in Utah of all places.

And when I got these jobs at these big tech companies, I moved to (indistinct), I moved to DC, I thought I made it.

I thought I was living the American dream.

But as I worked and I worked and I worked, I got to learn and learn and learn.

And I ask you to judge me by the integrity that it took to leave that golden ticket of having that paycheck to stand on this stage today, and guarantee that I'll never get a job like that again.

Because I'm willing to do what it takes to hold them accountable, to protect our children online, and make sure they have age appropriate experiences, to make sure that we have a nationalized privacy law akin to every other developed nation to make sure that AI is used to help us out with drug discovery and disease discovery, and figuring out things that are good for us, not take our jobs and exploit us.

Tech needs to be, to serve us, something that serves us, not something that takes away from us.

- [Max] Mr.

McAdams, one minute rebuttal and answer to this social media question.

- Thank you, Max.

First, I'd like to thank my fellow candidates for all so generously giving me extra time on the stage tonight.

Look, and I'm glad that you brought up the work that I've done on renewable energy.

I'm proud of the work that I've been doing since I left Congress to advance renewable energy development.

I, as he mentioned, did some work to make a, I'm the only candidate who has worked to make a data center better by adding renewable energy to a data center in southern Utah.

But I'm also the only candidate who ever stopped a data center.

I built a coalition to stand up to a data center that was not right, was in the wrong location.

It didn't use clean and renewable energy, and it wasn't a good deal for for the taxpayer.

So I believe that we need federal regulations, whether it's for technology, infrastructure, and also for social media that are going to put guardrails on bad actors and support the good actors.

Talk about genies to put back in the bottle, if I could put the social media genie back in the bottle, I would do that also.

I think of that as a parent, as a father, and how much social media has had a corrupting influence.

Thank you.

- [Max] And we're gonna go to Mr.

Farrell on social media.

- Yeah, we have seen that social media has been an addictive, you know, it's like almost like big tobacco.

It's been a, sorry, the timers at zero.

- [Max] Oh, it's gonna go to 30 and you'll have 30 seconds.

- Sorry, thank you.

Yeah, we have seen that social media is addictive and the owners of these social media companies, Mark Zuckerberg, et cetera, they push the cost of dealing with that, of dealing with the harms that social media puts onto children and the young adults, they push it on us.

It's unacceptable.

They have massive profits, and they can't hire people to do content moderation and control.

It's unacceptable.

It changes when I'm in Congress.

We will push regulations, so that they have to shoulder that burden, not the American consumers.

- [Max] Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you, yeah, I support a national privacy law.

I think we need to move in that direction.

I evolved from not supporting to eventually supporting restrictions on cell phone use in classrooms here in Utah, because I visited classrooms, I talked to teachers that were seeing so many problems stemming from social media and phones in hands at all times.

Liban has said a lot about his resignation, his leave from TikTok.

He still holds stock in TikTok, and has not produced any proof of a resignation, just that he quit to come back here and run for office.

- That is time.

And I apologize, we're not gonna have time for rebuttal here because we're at conclusions, and we're just about out of time for our hour.

So you'll have 30 seconds each for a concluding statement.

Now, the last person who began was, was it Mr.

Mohamed?

So we'll start with Mr.

McAdams.

- Thank you.

You heard tonight about the many things that as Democrats we agree on.

The question before us is not only who shares our values, but who can turn our values into actions, and I have done that.

I worked across differences, not because it's easy and not because it's always popular, but because that's how hard things actually get done.

And tonight, you've heard a lot of promises.

I would say, again, that slogans are not solutions.

The people counting on us expect us to deliver results.

I'm asking for your vote tonight so we can turn our shared values into action.

Thank you.

- [Max] Thank you, Mr.

Farrell.

- Yeah, you know, one of the proudest things I've told people when I've, you know, met voters, knock doors is I'm not a career politician.

This is my first time running for office.

Because when I look at people who have been in office, what on earth have they gotten done?

And I think, what do you have to lose voting for someone who isn't tainted by bad votes in Congress, by failing to pass a single bill in the State Senate?

What do you have to lose?

The status quo isn't working.

The politicians that Utah has sent aren't working.

They're not doing anything to deliver.

Send me to Congress and I will deliver for you.

- [Max] Thank you.

Mr.

Blouin.

- Thank you, we have heard about some of the most critical issues facing Utah today, data centers, wealth inequality, Medicare for All, and all of these things have a single thread in common.

They represent a system that is rigged against working people like you.

It is so important that we elect someone who can be trusted to fight for our communities.

Bernie Sanders, the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Ro Khanna, they trust me to work with them to get this done.

I am asking for your trust and your vote as well.

- [Max] Thank you.

And the last word, Mr.

Mohamed.

- The progressive movement must not die just 'cause of the character of one individual.

This is bigger than all of us, not about one person, but if one person makes us lose, that is an issue.

For too long, people told me, Liban, this is too different, too risky.

But Utahans took that risk on hope, and we won the Democratic Convention by 51%.

This is a new opportunity for a new possibility, where each and every one of us have healthcare as a human right, not a privilege, where we could fight to abolish ICE.

- Thank you very much to all of you for a good debate.

And thank you to all of the candidates, as I mentioned, for participating today.

Thank you to our audience for engaging with us, either online or through TV and radio.

Election day is Tuesday June 23rd.

Ballots begin arriving in mailboxes on June 2nd.

Watch for them.

Contact your county clerk if you have any questions about making your vote count this election cycle.

We appreciate PBS Utah and the University of Utah for hosting us, and also want to acknowledge the members of the Utah Debate Commission Advisory Board, representing media organizations in colleges and universities throughout our state.

I'm Max Roth.

Thank you again for joining us.

(upbeat music)