Welcome to Forum 360.

Thank you for joining us on our global outlook with a local view.

This is Leslie Unger, your host today.

The American dream.

It's a term we've grown up hearing and using.

Have you thought about what it means today?

The American dream is defined as the ideal by which equality of opportunity is available to any American, allowing the highest aspirations and goals to be achieved.

Our guest today are what I refer to as the American Dream of 2024 five Kogan's came to Akron, Ohio from Mexico City 12 years ago.

Miri and Paul are parents of Josh, who came here as a 16 year old.

His brothers were 15 and 12.

We hear a lot on the news about immigration.

Today you will meet two faces of immigration and hear about the hardships, the losses, the gains, the benefits to come to our country.

Fast forward a little more than a decade since they came to the United States and Akron.

Ariel is in med school.

Josh with us today, is in his last year of rabbinical school, and Savi recently graduated from the Rhode Island School of Design.

JFK said everywhere immigrants have enriched and strengthened the fabric of American life.

You will absolutely know this to be true after you hear from our guest today.

So I welcome Miri and her oldest son, Josh.

Thank you for having us.

The rabbi to be.

Yes.

Let's go back to Mexico City.

You are living.

You were born in Mexico City.

You grew up in Mexico City.

You and your husband grew up there.

Met there and married there.

Raised your family there.

Your parents are there.

Your siblings are there.

Can you remember when you first started talking about moving to America?

Sure.

Well, it all started because when we got married, Paul wanted to study in the States.

So we moved to the States after we got married for three years.

Two years in Michigan, one year in Chicago.

And that's when we went back to Mexico.

And I was already pregnant with Josh.

So when we moved back, that's when we said, okay, I think we should try to go back to the States.

I think we will have more opportunities.

We are going to start a family.

Let's see what the what the situation is.

But I think we should start looking.

And that's when we start looking.

-So you started looking, but it took you roughly -15 years.

15 years from the time it was an idea.

Exactly, exactly.

Because we didn't have a papers to come.

So it's a long process to see if you can find a sponsor and then come.

But meanwhile we were going to do our live in Mexico.

We were happy there with our family and friends, parents, grandparents, cousins, everyone is there.

So we were going to do a life there and we were starting, but in our mind was the idea.

We didn't talk about it because we said we didn't want to be with one foot here and one foot there.

So we started there.

We never talk about it until things came along.

-So would you say that you know, it seems like historically both of my grandparents on both sides came here from another country.

would you say that when you talked about opportunity, opportunity for you and your husband, our opportunity for your next generation, for your kids?

-I think we were thinking about us in that moment.

Then we started our 15 years in Mexico, and we thought they will have more opportunities here.

When we think about, people immigrating like we I know I think about like, you know, during World War two when they needed a sponsor, which was often a relative, they needed to find a relative somewhere.

So when you say sponsor, what, what did you need to find and how did you find it?

So when you don't have the papers to come while we were studying, you have a student visa.

Then we have a working visa for one year, just for Paul.

And then we didn't have anything anymore.

So we went back.

We had the opportunity at that moment to ask for another year.

But because I was pregnant already, I wanted to be in my home with my parents and my parents in law.

So I don't know the the visa, the sponsor is something like you have to prove that he's the only one that can do that kind of job, and they have to ask if somebody else here in the States can do that job with characteristic specific characteristics, and if nobody can do it, then they can ask for him.

-So you are not taking a job from an American.

That's their point.

-No, no, exactly.

So they they post it in the newspaper or I don't know where they posted exactly, but they ask if somebody has these characteristics that I need for this specific job.

If nobody has that then they can apply for Paul and be the sponsor.

And then they decide if they can give Paul the visa.

And that's what we did.

And we came here, we had the interview with this person in Cuyahoga Falls.

And then when he applied, we went to the embassy and that's when they gave people the permit to work.

So the idea starts like before you're born and it takes 15 years.

So do you remember when you became aware that your family might move to.

Yeah, I think we always talked about it at home.

It was always a dream, even though we were leaving or fullest lives in Mexico, we were still dreaming of.

-So tell us why.

Why is it a dream?

The opportunities.

I think they really wanted us to have as many opportunities as we could get.

It was a wonderful life in Mexico, and there are still opportunities there, but maybe not as many as one could find here.

And they wanted that for us.

They wanted us to find opportunities related to our what we like to do.

if I like, for example, I love Yiddish, so only here I could find something related to that.

An opportunity to learn more.

Or, you know, that's not something you could find anywhere else.

-Now do you remember?

So it's a dream.

But how did you balance?

It's a dream to come.

But I have to give up.

Like the only life I've known.

How do you balance that as a kid or as an adult, but especially as a kid?

It wasn't hard for me because I wanted to move.

-Okay.

I dreamed of moving ever since I can remember more than my brothers.

I really, really wanted to move here.

We used to come to the US for every vacation every year, and I loved being here, and I think I always felt at home here.

-Can you identify, anything that you particularly love that stands out to you in any of those family vacations?

I feel safe and free when I'm here.

You know, I just enjoy walking in the streets by myself and, I yeah, -Mexico City, although it's a I've not been there.

A fascinating city.

-A fascinating city.

Has a lot of unsafe qualities to a daily life.

Yes.

You have to take care of yourself.

You can still do things.

You can still go out.

Everybody goes out.

Everybody's in the streets.

But you have to take care of yourself all the time.

So be aware -of your surroundings.

You somehow get to Akron, which is not like you're sitting in Mexico City saying, gee, I want to go to Akron, Ohio, right?

So what were some of your first thoughts about Akron when you first heard about this?

You probably researched it like, what were some of your first thoughts?

-We never heard of Akron before.

Honestly, we heard about Cleveland, but not Akron.

So the first question that we asked this guy that was hiring us is, do you have a there is a Jewish community?

There.

That was very, very important.

And we started looking in the area of Beachwood where we knew a little bit more, and we knew some people there.

But then, they told us like a told us about that.

And then that's when we started to find out, okay, what's in Akron?

There is a Jewish community and we start talking to her, and that's how we got introduced to Akron.

So what is one thing that comes to mind and how life in the States is different than you think it might be?

You know, we hear that like if you're if you're in another country and you watch movies, you know, you watch Hollywood, you think the streets are paved with gold and you think everyone's wearing furs and limousines or whatever.

Okay.

So when you think back to coming, what is one way that life is different in the States than you thought that it might be?

One of the things that I it catch my attention was in Akron, that everything closes very early in the day and we were not used to that in Mexico.

You go out very late.

You can go to the movies, from 10 to 12 at night and at 12 go to tacos.

So the life at night is open.

And here I remember talking to everything close.

It's like at 7 or 8.

It's like.

So that was very different.

And maybe we didn't think about it before we came.

-Yes that something that you wouldn't think about Is there a way that life was either the same or different than you envisioned?

The movies that you used to watch?

We used to watch American movies all the time.

So that was really, what we used to think of the US, you know, even though in some movies you do kind of see the streets paved with gold and the limousines in others.

I did find here what we were looking at in the movies, like, especially in high school, it was like in any movie I've ever seen, like, you know, the, the big lockers that go from the floor to the ceiling.

And then you're walking in the hallway and there's people of every color you can imagine.

And then you walked into the lunchroom, and there's a table with cheerleaders and a table with the football guys, and that table with, musical theater guys.

And, yes, that was like, in the movies.

Yeah.

So, movies.

I enjoyed high school so much because I felt that I was in a movie all the time.

And you weren't really in America.

Yeah, I love that.

And we also talk like something.

That is funny how you draw a house in a paper like a little kid is that you draw house like this.

We never realized that we draw house because the houses are like that here.

They are not like that in Mexico at all.

You know, the ceilings are flat.

Okay.

Yeah.

And are they tile or are they the ceilings or.

I mean, like the roofs.

Are they flat?

Are they tile?

Are you stucco?

It's they're made of cement.

Yeah.

I mean definitely.

But I will never see a house like that.

-So everyone around the world draws a house like this.

The houses in America.

Yeah, but yeah, but our houses are completely flat.

Interesting.

I mean, it's a little thing, but it's not.

But it's really very interesting how our how our influence spreads.

Yeah.

You know, today we are talking with, Miri and Josh Kogan who have been here 12 years.

originally coming from Mexico City.

In many ways, Americans are great.

We're a generous country with mixed feelings today about immigration.

How do people talk to you or treat you as immigrants?

Like they hear your accent?

Do they do they ask you things?

Do they do you notice that?

Do you feel like they they treat you any differently or say anything to any differently?

Maybe just even out of curiosity, like, did you swim here?

I think, thank God we've only faced kindness since we moved here.

I don't think we've ever faced something, anything negative about -People have been.

Really, really nice.

We find that in Akron.

People are nice.

The one of the first experience that we had, we were outside of our garden.

My parents were here.

We were getting rid of the leaves.

That's the first time we did something like that in our lives.

We don't have that in Mexico, and we wanted to take a picture, of course.

And the neighbor, without knowing us, he stopped his car and asked, can I take a picture?

So everybody's in the picture and we were like, oh, wow.

Yeah, things like that.

Always little things that happen with people around.

Very nice -As a communicate coach, I say, there's no such thing as a little thing or a big thing.

I think anything has a potential to be big at any moment.

And that seems like a little thing that is big.

And other thing is that when we came here, the community was like ready for us.

They already have so many things donated to help us move while our big truck will come.

So they gave us everything and that was really amazing.

Even a Shabbat dinner when we got here, everything was ready.

We have beds for everyone, everything.

So that was really amazing.

We were really grateful for that and bad things.

Only one, somebody asked me if I was worried about what's happening with the and I was like, no, we are not because we have papers.

We came the legal way.

We did the the working permit, and then we applied for the green card and then we applied for the citizen.

So we have been doing every step of the way that we should be.

So we are not worried.

But only once somebody asked me about that.

When you watch the news or you hear things, is there anything that you think Americans get wrong about immigration?

Or maybe get right about immigration?

There are different ways to immigrate here the way we did it.

Like we a sponsor in the correct way and the way they do it, like crossing without papers.

So it's like very separate things.

And and I guess people only hear this part right?

And they don't hear our side.

And many people do it our way in the correct way.

I understand why other people do differently, because that's the only when they can.

But that's what the eyes are on.

We know when you talk about the legal way.

So you are American citizens.

Now there's two things I fear in life.

One is having to take a driver's test again, like not passing.

Okay.

Like parallel parking was hard enough when I was 16.

Okay.

And I wonder sometimes like what I if I would pass the naturalization exam that you guys had to pass.

Like I wonder if I or really any citizen.

Right.

So it consisted of three parts.

As I understand it.

What are some things that you had to learn, like to pass a test?

I was asked, so they ask you ten questions.

You have to get six right -You don't know those ten questions ahead of time.

Well, when you do have hundred questions to learn from, so you learn the 100 questions.

So they give you those, -So did you guys, like, walk around testing each other all the time?

Like asking.

Yes.

But from those 100 questions they asked you ten random.

-Okay.

You have to get six right to pass.

I think one of the questions they asked me is who was the president during World War two?

It can be a history question.

It can be a question about the government, about the Constitution, the.

Yeah.

Now, you all five had to take it because you were over a certain age.

Do you all of Yeah.

Yes.

When we came here, we were just on time for them to get the green card.

As a family, if you are older than 21, then you can you'll have to do it on your own.

But just got the green card before 21.

So then the process is together.

So speaking of Josh, Josh you're the oldest right?

So now did you feel like any responsibility through this process of coming here that you went to set an example for your younger brothers.

I really wanted them to be happy because it was my dream to move here.

And I really, really, really wanted to move here a lot more than they did.

So my dream was becoming a reality and I was very happy about it.

And I was very happy in high school.

I'm not sure how happy they were at the beginning, and I really wanted them to be as happy as I was.

I wanted to, I really wanted them to see the beauty of this country and how amazing it is, and all the opportunities that we have in the everything they did for us, all the sacrifices they did for us.

So in a way, that's what I really wanted to do at the beginning.

Now they see it.

All of us see it right now.

We were all very happy and we see how wonderful it is to live here.

We talked about opportunity, the opportunity, the American dream, the opportunity that you were looking at for young kids.

You didn't even know in what area opportunity, but you just knew opportunity.

So tell us about the path that you have chosen and the opportunities that path.

So I, I've always wanted to be a rabbi.

So I went to Kent State to go to medical school.

You have to go to college before and I so I went to Kent.

-And you loved Kent State Seems to love Kent State.

I love Kent State.

I still go back all the time just to walk around campus because I love it so much.

And I studied history, Jewish studies and graphic design, graphic design, just to just for fun -Because you are very talented.

Thank you.

And history and Jewish studies to help me in rabbinical school.

I graduated in 2018 and then I moved to LA to go to rabbinical school.

So I did part of my studies there, and then I did part of my studies in New York.

so it was wonderful to get those opportunities not only to go to rabbinical school in the US, but also to live in LA and to live in New York, which are two of the greatest cities in the world, the opportunities to live in both places.

That was really very special.

I love that.

And this fall you're going to be living in yet another place, right?

So this fall, I'm moving to Isreal for my final year of studies, and I'm very excited.

I'm going to miss the US, but I'm very excited to to live there.

Yeah.

One opportunity that you'll have was to study Sofia.

Yes.

Yeah.

Something amazing that I can only do in the States and in you.

So I've, I've always loved calligraphy and especially Hebrew calligraphy.

So I've always wanted to become a scribe, a ritual Jewish scribe.

And when I was in New York, I had the opportunity to go to Williamsport once a week and learn, from a very religious community, how to be a scribe.

So that was also an amazing opportunity that I had.

So tell us briefly, you're the oldest and you're finishing as a rabbinical student than Ariel is in med school, right?

Right.

And he is somewhere in that journey.

First year, second year somewhere.

Right.

He also went to Kent State and after Kent State he moved to New York and he worked in a laboratory in Mount Sinai for two years.

And he loved it.

And he sees that as an opportunity for growth.

That was really extraordinary for him.

After two years, he moved to Connecticut to go to medical school, and he just finished his first year out of eight.

He's doing that MD, PhD.

So he's going to combine medical school with all the research.

he had a hard time moving at the beginning.

He didn't want to move.

He had a lot of things going on in Mexico.

Very wonderful.

And we were very worried about him, especially, because we wanted him to be okay.

And we knew we were taking him apart of something so special in Mexico.

now that he's in medical school.

So happy.

He told us a like two years ago, like, thank you for doing this for me.

So that was like, cool.

Okay, now we got one more to get through.

So we got to talk about Savi Yeah okay.

Yep.

Interestingly enough, you are all very talented artistically, but Savi chose to follow that in his profession.

So tell us a little bit about youngest brother.

Yeah.

So Savi after high school he moved to LA to go to an art school called Cal Arts, which is what he was.

Also, it wasn't the right fit for him.

And he transferred to Rizzi, but it was still a great opportunity for him to grow because CalArts was founded by Walt Disney.

So it was a great year for him.

There.

And then he realized I need to be somewhere else.

So he transferred to receive, which was the perfect fit.

And so he's going to find some opportunities in.

And he's also now doing a lot of the animation for many children's books.

So that kind of opportunities he did through all his years in school.

So that's so now we know about everyone button but Paul.

But we'll just save that for another time.

in just a minute or so this left, I want to ask you just some quick questions and just ask you for 1 or 2 answers, okay?

When you came here, what surprised you most besides the.

No, nothing's open after 8:00. is there anything that surprised you?

A little bit like a the people are more tired than what I expected to be.

Okay?

Everyone's tired and busy.

Right?

And being tired and busy.

is there anything that disappointed you that wasn't like you thought it would be?

Maybe the same answer.

Tired and be tired and busy.

Everybody's tired and busy.

One is something that you miss most from Mexico.

Besides people.

The food.

-The food,the community.

Yeah.

My last question, in order to what was it like to have you voted?

this will be your first election to vote.

to describe what you think it'll be like to vote for the first time.

Exciting.

Yeah.

Exciting.

I still think it's exciting.

Yeah.

During his presidency, president Bill Clinton said, more than any other nation on earth, America has constantly drawn strength and spirit from wave after wave of immigrants.

The issue of immigration seems complicated until we meet them in person and hear their stories like so many generations before them, our guests today left their home, their families, their culture, their language, all that was familiar to them to look for a better future for their children.

After getting to know Miri and Josh, you know they found a better future, and America's future is better for it.

I'm Leslie Ungar, thank you for joining us on Forum 360.

Forum 360 is brought to you by John S and James L Knight Foundation, the Akron Community Foundation, Hudson Community Television, the Rubber City Radio Group, Shaw Jewish Community Center of Akron, Blue Green, Electric Impulse Communications, and Forum 360 supporters.