FERAL CATS ROAM ALL OF THE MAJOR HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.

POPULATION ESTIMATES RUN INTO THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

THE CATS HAVE NO PREDATORS BUT HAVE LONG BEEN CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BIGGEST PREDATORY THREATS TO NATIVE WILDLIFE AND THEY SPREAD A POTENTIALLY DEADLY PARASITE THAT CAN HARM BIRDS AND MAMMALS INCLUDING MONK SEALS AND HUMANS.

TRAP, NEUTER AND RELEASE PROGRAMS CAN HELP, BUT ARE THEY DOING ENOUGH.

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI’I START NOW.

ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M DARYL HUFF.

FERAL CATS MAY LOOK LIKE HARMLESS PETS, BUT THESE FELINES ARE UNSOCIALIZED OUTDOOR CATS THAT MAY NEVER HAVE HAD PHYSICAL CONTACT WITH HUMANS, OR HUMAN CONTACT HAS DIMINISHED OVER TIME.

SOME OF THEM PREY ON NATIVE BIRDS AND INSECTS AND THEIR FECES CONTAIN PATHOGENS THAT CAN HARM OTHER ANIMALS AND SEA LIFE.

THAT ISSUE HAS DEEPENED THE DIVIDE BETWEEN RESIDENTS WHO FEED THE FELINES AND AGENCIES TASKED WITH PROTECTING THE WILDLIFE.

WITH A POPULATION THAT’S ESTIMATED TO BE IN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS, THE FERAL CAT SITUATION IS OUT OF CONTROL.

OUR PANEL TONIGHT WILL DISCUSS POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS, AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

STEPHANIE KENDRICK IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AT THE HAWAIIAN HUMANE SOCIETY.

SHE LEADS ITS GOVERNMENT RELATIONS, COMMUNICATIONS, OUTREACH AND EDUCATION TEAMS.

PRIOR TO THIS WORK, SHE SPENT 25‑YEARS IN JOURNALISM.

HOLLY HOLOWACH IS THE FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF POPOKI PLACE OAHU CAT SANCTUARY.

THE NON‑PROFIT IS WORKING TO BUILD A SANCTUARY THAT CAN PROVIDE A PERMANENT AND SAFE HOME FOR HOMELESS CATS.

ITS FIRST PRIORITY WILL BE REMOVING FERAL AND UNADOPTABLE CATS FROM AREAS WHERE THEY CAN HARM NATIVE WILDLIFE.

MICHELLE BARBIERI IS WITH THE NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION OR NOAA, PACIFIC ISLANDS FISHERIES SCIENCE CENTER.

SHE’S A   VETERINARIAN AND THE LEAD SCIENTIST WITH THE HAWAIIAN MONK SEAL RESEARCH PROGRAM.

ANDRE RAINE IS THE SCIENCE DIRECTOR FOR ARCHIPELAGO RESEARCH AND CONSERVATION, AN ECOLOGICAL CONSULTING COMPANY BASED IN HAWAII.

THEY FOCUS ON THE MONITORING AND MANAGEMENT OF ENDANGERED SEABIRDS AND WATERBIRDS IN HAWAII AND AMERICAN SAMOA.

AND KEONI VAUGHN IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE LANAI CAT SANCTUARY.

THE ORGANIZATION RESCUES CATS FROM PROTECTED AREAS WHERE NATIVE AND ENDANGERED BIRDS LIVE.

SINCE 2014, THE’VE BROUGHT IN NEARLY 2000 CATS, WITH MORE THAN HALF OF THOSE BEING ADOPTED.

LET ME START WITH YOU.

HAWAIIAN HUMANE SOCIETY.

TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS THOUSANDS OF CATS.

ARE THERE DIFFERENT TYPES OF FERAL, STRAY, WANDERING PETS OR IS THERE A PARTICULAR AREA WE NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON TONIGHT?

>> SO THE POPULATION OF FERAL CATS IS COMPLEX.

IT'S MADE UP OF CATS THAT ALLOWED TO ROAM, WE DISCOURAGE IT.

PREFER PEOPLE TO KEEP PET CATS INDOORS.

>> MADE UP OF ABANDONED PETS PARTICULAR CONCERNS TO ANIMAL WELFARE AND MADE UP OF UNSOCIALIZED CATS THAT YOU DESCRIBED WHICH ARE DESCENDANTS FORMER PETS ABANDONED ON THE LANDSCAPE.

COMPLEX POPULATION.

DISTRIBUTED UNEVENLY ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE.

AND REALITY IS WE DON'T HAVE VERY GOOD DATA.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS IS ESTIMATE THAT IS BASED ON VERY LITTLE REAL INFORMATION.

ONE.

THINGS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE AND THAT WE IN CONVERSATION WITH OUR CONSERVATION FRIENDS ABOUT, IS BETTER DATA ON THE CAT POPULATION AND ITS DISTRIBUTION ACROSS THE STATE.

>>Daryl: YOU'VE GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS ON YOUR ISLAND ALMOST LIKE A MICROCOSM OF WHAT IS GOING ON ELSEWHERE.

I WOULD THINK.

WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED ABOUT THESE KINDS OF POPULATIONS OF CATS IN WHAT YOU'VE EXPERIENCED?

>> GOES BACK TO ALMOST 20 YEARS.

WORKED FOR THE HAWAIIAN HUMANE A SOCIETY TEN YEARS.

WHEN I LEFT INTAKE WAS ABOUT 33,000 ANIMALS A YEAR.

ABOUT 33 THOSE, 19 OF THEM WERE CATS.

AND OUT OF THOSE 19,000, I WOULD SAY ABOUT 90% EASILY WERE STRAY UNSOCIALIZED CATS.

FOR.

>>Daryl: SAY THAT AGAIN.

THAT NUMBER.

>> 90% OF THOSE.

19,000 CATS CAME IN WERE UNSOCIALIZED.

OR UNADOPTABLE.

FOR ME, AS FORMER HUMANE INVESTIGATOR AND SOMEONE I THINK I'M THE ONLY ONE ON THIS PANEL HAD TO EUTHANIZE FOR THE SOLE PURPOSES OF CAT BEING UNSOCIALIZED UNADOPTABLE, IT REALLY HIT HOME FOR ME.

SO I DECIDED TO MAKE THE CHANGE AND GO TO LANAI TO TRY IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

CATS WE BRING IN ON LANAI ARE TRULY FERAL.

HAVEN'T SEEN ANY HUMAN UNTIL OUR INTERVENTION.

SO IT'S A DIFFERENT SCENARIO FOR US.

BUT IT'S PART OF I WOULD SAY TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX TO HOPEFULLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>>Daryl: WHAT ABOUT OAHU'S POPULATION?

>> WELL, WE HAVE LARGE COLLECTION OF MOSTLY COMMUNITY CATS.

WHICH ARE STRAYS THAT HAVE BEEN ABANDON.

WE DO HAVE A LOT OF FERALS THAT ARE LIVING IN THE BUSHES AND AWAY.

BUT THE CATS THAT EVERYBODY SEES ARE COMMUNITY CATS.

THEY'VE BEEN ABANDON.

A LOT OF TIMES.

>> SOMEBODY WILL NOT LIKE CATS IN THEIR YARD.

WILL TRAP THAT CAT AND TAKE IT TO A COLONY ELSEWHERE ACROSS THE ISLAND AND DUMP THE CAT THERE.

SO IT'S A COLLECTION OF CATS.

WE HAVE SOME NEVER SEEN A HUMAN.

SOME THAT ARE TERRIFIED OF HUMANES.

AND COME TO BE FED AND THEN WE TRAP AND NEUTER THEM.

AND TRY TO REDUCE THE POPULATION THROUGH THAT.

>>Daryl: WITH NOAA, YOU WORK PARTICULARLY OUT KAENA POINT.

HOW BIG A PROBLEM FOR THE SANCTUARIES ARE THE CATS THAT ARE IN THE AREAS THERE?

>> AS REPRESENTATIVE OF NOAA FISHERIES OUR PURVIEW IS TO STUDY AND CONDUCT SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH AND MONITORING PROGRAM.

CAN'T SPEAK SPECIFICALLY TO THE STATE MANAGED AREAS.

MARINE LIFE SPECIES SEE IMPACTS OF CATS IN MARINE WILDLIFE MOST NOTABLE MAKES TO THE OCEANS PATHOGEN CALLED TOXOPLASMOSIS.

SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR THE ENDANGERED HAWAIIAN MONK SEAL.

50.

MANY DISAPPEAR THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DIAGNOSE.

SMALL NUMBER COMPARED TO REALITY.

HOWEVER, WHEN WE REALLY LOOK AT THE MALE, FEMALE RATIO ANIMALS WE HAVE STUDIED.

PREDOMINANTLY FEMALES.

GIVES YOU LOT OF CONCERN.

OUR MANDATE IS RECOVER THIS ENDANGERED SPECIES TRYING TO KEEP THOSE FEMALES AROUND IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

WE LOSE THEIR FUTURE REPRODUCTIVE POTENTIAL.

>>Daryl: WHAT IS YOUR ROLE IN ALL OF THIS?

>> WELL, WHICH WORK ON ENDANGERED NATIVE BIRDS.

AND YOU WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT THIS CAT CRISIS.

WE'RE FACING CAT CRISIS.

ALSO EXTENSION CRISIS.

HAWAII ARCHIPELAGO.

SPECIES FOUND NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

EVOLVED ISLANDS WITH NO PREDATORS.

NO WAY OF DEFENDING THEMSELVES AGAINST PREDATORS.

SO WHAT WE SEE, WE WORK WITH ENDANGERED SEA BIRDS LIKE THE A'O IN THE MOUNTAINS.

>> EXTREMELY REMOTE AREAS ONLY GET TO HELP FIND BIRDS IN THESE UNMANAGED AREAS.

CAT PREDATED BIRDS ARE PREVALENT.

WATER BIRDS, HAWAIIAN MOORE HEN.

FOUND IN GOLF COURSES, AROUND URBAN AREAS.

BIRDS ONLY A THOUSAND LEFT OF THEM IN THE WORLD.

MAINLY ON KAUAI AND OAHU.

AGAIN, THEY COME INTO CONTACT WITH CATS AND CATS KILL THEM.

SORT OF THIS, IT IS EXTINCTION CRISIS WE'RE SEEING.

SEEING BIRDS DISAPPEARING.

BIRDS ALREADY DISAPPEARED FROM THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS NEVER COME BACK AGAIN.

WE HAVE DUTY AND RESPONSIBILITY TO DEAL WITH THIS CRISIS.

>>Daryl: FINISH UP ON MY QUESTION ABOUT LANAI.

HAVE YOU SEEN POPULATIONS OF SEA BIRDS AND SO ON RESTORED OR DOING BETTER BECAUSE OF THE WORK THAT YOU'VE DONE THERE?

>> YEAH.

SO I THINK THAT'S A VERY COMPLICATED QUESTION.

WITH ANSWER THAT I CAN ONLY RESPOND TO FROM OUR EXPERIENCE.

WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH CONSERVATION.

HONESTLY AS NATIVE HAWAIIAN BORN AND RAISED IN WAIMANALO, I FELT THAT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO DO WHAT I COULD TO PROTECT THE NATIVE AND ENDANGERED SPECIES THEY WERE HERE FIRST.

>> HUMANS INTRODUCED THIS CAT IRRESPONSIBLY BACK THEN.

HAVING TO DEAL WITH BOTH.

I'M TRYING TO DO IS REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

AND WHEN WE DO MEETING WITH CONSERVATION, ACCEPT ALL CATS CAUGHT FROM CONSERVATION.

INTO THE SANCTUARY.

WE'VE BEEN TOLD THERE HASN'T BEEN A CAT PREDITATION ON LANAI SINCE 2020.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO THINK WE WERE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

POSITIVE ONE FOR BOTH SPECIES.

>>Daryl: GOT ONE QUESTION ABOUT SPECIFIC POPULATION.

I DON'T KNOW ANYONE HERE WOULD KNOW THIS.

WHAT IS THE PANEL THINKING FERAL CATS OCCUPYING WOODS IN HILO?

HOW DEEP INTO THE FOREST AND SO ON ARE THE FERAL CATS GETTING NOW?

>> I GO BACK TO MOUNTAINS KAUAI.

YOU'LL SORT OF BE IN THIS EXTREME PROMOTE AREA.

COME IN HELMET.

LAND ON REMOTE RIDGE.

NO ONE BEEN THERE BEFORE.

WALK AROUND IN THE FOREST.

NO TRAILS OR ANYTHING.

YOU FIND THIS ENDANGERED SEA BIRD.

NEST IT HOLES.

VULNERABLE SPENDS MONTH AND MONTHS HOLES IN THE GROUND.

PULLED OUTSIDE IS THE TORN UP REMAINS OF ENDANGERED WAWOAO.

CAT EVERYWHERE.

BIG COLONIES LOWLANDS URBAN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR CATS.

CAT COLONIES.

EXTEND COAST ALL THE UP TO THE MOUNTAINTOP.

AMAZING KIND OF PLACES THESE ANIMALS CAN LIVE AND RAISE LITTERS OF KITTENS.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS AN ACTUAL CAT THAT DID THE KILLING?

MONK SEAL AND RATS ALSO GO UP IN THERE AND WOULD KILL.

WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT WAS REALLY A CAT?

WAS THERE A CAT FUR THERE TOO?

CAT FECES.

>>Daryl: OR RAT OR MONGOOSE.

>> QUITE EASY TO TELL WHAT HAS PREDATED A BIRD BASED ON KIND OF LIKE BEING SHERLOCK HOMES.

LOOK AT AT THE UNFORTUNATE CARCASS OF THIS ENDANGERED BIRD.

WHAT DAMAGE DONE TO IT.

MANY PREDATORS IN THE MOUNTAINS.

INTRODUCED PREDATORS.

BARN OWL LAY THE BIRD OUT ON HIS BACK.

STRIP MEAT OFF THE NECK.

CAT TAKES CHUNKS OUT OF THE BREAST.

MESSY FEEDER.

TAKE THE BACK OF THE BRAIN OUT.

SO YOU CAN TELL RAT ON THE OTHER HAND WILL SORT OF CONSUME GO FOR SMALLER CHICK.

CONSUME THE CHICKEN.

BE A LITTLE PUDDLE.

WE BASICALLY USE ALL OF THE SIGNS THAT ARE THERE TO IDENTIFY.

>> KNOW WHAT IT IS.

>> ON TOP OF THAT, CAMERAS ON THE BURROWS.

WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF IMAGES CAT PULLING BIRDS OUT.

>>Daryl: ADVOCATE FOR THE CATS.

DO YOU FEEL WE'RE ULTIMATELY GET TO A PLACE HAVE TO CHOOSE ONE SPECIES OVER ANOTHER?

>> ONE OF MY BIGGEST POINTS.

WE FIRST OF ALL WE LOVE BIRDS AND WE LOVE MONK SEALS.

WE REALLY DO.

ALL CAT PEOPLE ARE ON YOUR SIDE IN THAT ESSENCE.

ESPECIALLY EXTINCT ONES ENDANGERED ONES.

TERRIFYING TO US TO THINK WE MIGHT LOSE THEM ESPECIALLY NO ANY CAT, I MEAN, SORRY ANY BIRD THAT IS KILLED OR MONK SEAL THAT IS KILLED CAUSED BY CATS, THAT'S HARD ON US.

WE DON'T WANT THAT EITHER.

WE'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE RECENTLY TALKED ABOUT CULLING THE CATS.

AND I DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO GET SUPPORT IF YOU WANT TO CULL THE CATS.

YOU WILL GET SUPPORT IF IT YOU FIND A WAY TO WORK TOGETHER.

WE BELIEVE THAT ONE, YOU DON'T KILL ONE SPECIES TO SAVE ANOTHER.

FIND A WAY TO SAVE THEM ALL.

>>Daryl: TALKING MORE ABOUT THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS.

I WANT TO GET A GOOD SET OF DEFINITIONS ABOUT THE ISSUES.

YOU WANTED TO SAY SOMETHING?

>> YEAH.

NOBODY, I WOULD SAY WE'RE ALL ANIMAL LOVERS.

WE TALK ABOUT CAT PEOPLE VERSUS DOG PEOPLE.

VERY MUCH A CAT PERSON.

ALL MY LIFE.

I HAVE CATS INDOOR CATS.

NOBODY WANTS TO SEE ONE ANIMAL DIE AT THE EXPENSE OF ANOTHER.

AGREE ON KEEPING CATS INDOORS.

DON'T WANT TO SEE CATS ON LANDSCAPE.

DON'T WANT TO KILL ONE ANIMAL TO SAVE ANOTHER.

WHEN A CAT IS BEING LET OUTSIDE, LEFT OUTSIDE CAT COLONY OR IRRESPONSIBLE CAT OWNER, THAT IS ACTUALLY DECISION TO LET THAT CAT BEING OUT THERE AT THE EXPENSE.

GOING TO KILL A BUNCH OF OTHER SPECIES.

I THINK THAT IS THE SORT OF THING THERE.

YOU WHEN CAT OUTSIDE, MAKING DECISION TO ALLOW THE KILLING OF OTHER SPECIES.

WHICH ARE NATIVE AND ENDANGERED SPECIES.

>> I WANT TO BUILD ON ANDRE IS SAYING THERE.

PRETENDING THIS IS CONVERSATION ABOUT CATS VERSUS WILDLIFE.

THAT IS PUTTING A LOT ON THE ANIMAL.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS CREATE A COMMUNITY OF KULEANA, COMMUNITY OF COMPASSION, WHERE HUMAN BEINGS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE RESULTS OF THEIR ACTIONS.

DEMONIZING ANIMALS DOESN'T SOLVE ANYTHING.

IT'S NOT A DISSERVICE TO THE CATS.

OBVIOUSLY DOESN'T WORK WELL FOR MONK SEALS.

>>Daryl: NOT REALLY CAT'S FAULT.

>> NOT THE CAT'S FAULT.

>>Daryl: CAT BEING A CAT.

>> WE NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE STEP UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR ACTIONS REALIZE OF IMPACT OF THEIR ACTIONS.

>>Daryl: STARTING TO GET LOTS OF QUESTIONS AS WE KIND OF EXPECTED.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS.

>> NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET TO ALL OF THEM.

TRY AND SUM THEM UP.

MICHAEL FROM HAWAII ISLAND, IF YOU'RE FEEDING CATS YOU SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE TO TAKE THEM HOME WITH YOU.

FEEDING THEM IS CREATING MORE ISSUES OTHERS.

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, PRIOR, IS THE FEEDING OF CATS LIVING IN COLONIES A BIG ISSUE IN THIS ISSUE?

>> IT CAN BE.

IF IT'S NOT DONE RESPONSIBLY, NOT DONE PROPER AREAS, NOT MANAGED PROPERLY WHAT CAN I SPEAK TO IS OUR ISLAND OF LANAI.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WHEN I STARTED ALMOST TEN YEARS AGO, NOW, ON LANAI, WE ACTUALLY ENDED THE FEEDING AND TRAPPING AND TRAP NEUTER, RETURN OF CATS.

ON LANAI.

THAT WAS A BIG SHIFT.

COME FROM HUMANE SOCIETY TEN YEARS.

INGRAINED WITH THAT.

SMALLER COMMUNITY.

DIFFERENT ISLAND THAN ALL OTHERS.

AND SO WHAT WE DID WAS IN TURN, RATHER THAN SAYING, HEY, PLEASE JUST STOP FEEDING THE CATS, WE SAID FEEDING CATS, BRING ALL THE CATS TO US.

FOCUSED ON BRINGING CATS IN THE CAT SANCTUARY.

350 CATS.

TAKE IT INDOORS.

OFFER FREE SPAY AND NEUTERING ALL PETS YEAR‑ROUND.

BEEN DOING THAT FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS.

>>Daryl: NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE HUMANE SOCIETY'S ROLE IN ALL OF THIS.

RATHER THAN ASKING EACH OF THEM AND MAKE YOU FEEL LIKE I'M GRILLING YOU.

LET ME JUST GIVE THE THREE QUESTIONS.

HUMANE SOCIETY STOP TAKING IN FERAL CATS.

>> WHERE ELSE CAN I DROP THEM OFF?

STATES NO LONGER HAVE A COUNTY TO ACCEPT CATS.

SPANNING ISLAND HERE.

ARER PROBLEM IS HUMANE SOCIETY FAULT.

IT WILL NOT EUTHANIZES CATS FERAL OR NOT.

JUST WHERE IS THE HUMANE SOCIETY NOW ON THIS ISSUE?

WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AND WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW WITH SOMEONE BRINGS A CAT TO YOU OR COLLECTS COUPLE OF FERAL CATS I'LL TAKE TO THE HUMANE SOCIETY.

WHAT HAPPENS?

>> HUMANE SOCIETY OFFERS SPAY, NEUTER VACCINATION MIKE RECHIPPING AND RETURN FOR ANYONE MICROCHIPPING ANYONE WANTS TO BRING US TRAPPED CAT.

NOT SOCIALIZED TO CAT.

>> PET CATS.

KITTENS, BECAUSE WE CAN ADOPT THOSE IN NEW HOMES.

BUT UNSOCIALIZED CAT, WHO CAN'T BE ADOPTED INTO A NEW HOME, WE DON'T HAVE A POSITIVE OUTCOME FOR THAT ANIMAL EXCEPT FOR SPAY/NEUTER AND RETURN TO WHERE THEY ARE LIVING OUTSIDE.

THAT'S A SERVICE THAT WE PROVIDE FREE OF CHARGE TO THE COMMUNITY.

EUTHANIZED FERAL CATS WITHOUT SOLVING THIS PROBLEM.

ABERRATION FOR THE MISSION.

DIDN'T SUPPORT THE WORK WE WANT TO DO IN THE COMMUNITY IT'S NOT A ROLE WE'RE WILLING TO PLAY ANY MORE.

>>Daryl: PEOPLE CAN BRING YOU CATS THEY'VE TRAPPED, WHAT YOU WILL DO WITH THEM IS SPAY, NEUTER THEM, AND THEN YOU RETURN THEM OR PEOPLE RETURN THEM TO WHEREVER.

>> PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE RETURNING THEM.

RETURNING THEM TO WHERE THEY FOUND THEM.

>>Daryl: TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

TRULY FERAL CAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, THEY'RE JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO KEEP AT HOME?

WON'T BE TRAINED?

CAN'T BE DOMESTICATED.

>> COMPLETELY UNSOCIALIZED TO HUMANE BEING.

NOT SUITABLE AS PETS.

>> MAY JUMP IN THERE.

ONE OF THINGS THAT I LEARNED THROUGH LAST TEN YEARS WORKING AT THE CAT SANCTUARY I ALWAYS UNDER THE IMPRESSION ONCE A UNSOCIALIZED CAT, I HATE THAT TERM FERAL, COMMUNITY CATS LABELS CATS ARE GIVEN.

GUITARS REALLY MUDDY AND REALLY GETTING REALLY MUDDY AND COMPLICATED REALITY IS WHAT I LEARNED OVER THE YEARS AT THE LANAI CAT SANCTUARY THROUGH THE LUXURY OF SPACE AND TIME, WE'VE NOTICED ABOUT THE 40% OF THE CATS THAT CAME TO US THAT ARE TRULY WILD, THESE ARE CATS THAT ARE CAUGHT AND REALLY REMOTE AREAS, NEVER SEEN A HUMAN UNTIL OUR INTERVENTION, THROUGH THE LUXURY OF PARTICIPATION AND TIME, ABOUT 40% OF COMES SOCIALIZED AND ADOPTABLE.

60% WILL HAD ALWAYS BE FERAL.

40% WE HAVE REHOMED.

>>Daryl: LET ME MOVE ON.

I WANT TO GET MICHELLE FROM NOAA INVOLVED HERE.

COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.

WHAT IS HAWAII'S ESTIMATE HAWAIIAN SEAL POPULATION COMPARED TO HAWAII'S ESTIMATED FERAL CAT POPULATION.

AIN'T EVEN CLOSE.

>> I THINK THERE'S ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE.

>>Daryl: THEN ARE CATS ONLY CARRIER OF TOXOPLASMOSIS?

DO YOU FEEL THIS TOXOPLASMOSIS PROBLEM CAN BE SOLVED WITH STILL CAT COLONIES NEAR THE OCEANS?

>> TOXOPLASMOSIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS DISEASE THAT RESULTS FROM PARASITE THAT IS ONLY UNIQUELY SHED IN THE FECES OF FELINES.

HAWAII, ONLY FELIDS WE HAVE ARE CATS.

CATS OUTSIDE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO PREY ON BIRDS, RODENTS, OBTAIN THAT PARACYTIC INFECTION.

YES.

CATS OUTSIDE GETTING INFECTED AND DEFECATING IN THE ENVIRONMENT, IT IS GOING TO PERSIST.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY SOME SOLUTIONS THERE.

IN THE SENSE THAT CYSTS THINK OF THEM AS EGGS CATS SHED IN FECES AFTER THEY GET INFECTED, THEY ARE SHED VERY, VERY LARGE NUMBERS.

MILLIONS OF THEM.

IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

BUT THEY PERSIST IN THE ENVIRONMENT FOR MONTHS.

MAYBE YEARS ENVIRONMENT FOR YEARS.

MONTHS.

NOT OF FOREVER AND FOREVER.

FIND SOLUTION KEEP CATS INSIDE FIND OTHER MULTIDISCIPLINARY CREATIVE SOLUTIONS, I THINK WE CAN REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF THOSE OOCYSTS GOING INTO THE LANDSCAPE.

>>Daryl: ONLY MONK SEALS AFFECTED BY THIS?

MORE BROAD THAN THAT.

>> MUCH MORE BROAD.

OUR AREA OF INTEREST FOR FISHERIES MARINE LIFE.

KNOW FROM COLLEAGUES UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII STUDY STRANDINGS AROUND THE STATE, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL SPINNER DOLPHINS DIED FROM TOXOPLASMOSIS.

TERRESTRIAL ARENA, OTHER AVIAN SPECIES THAT HAVE SUCCUMB TO TOXOPLASMOSIS.

WORTH NOTING HUMAN HEALTH CONCERN AS WELL.

TOXIC PLASMA INFECTION IS NOT JUST ANIMALS.

CAN AFFECT PEOPLE, WILDLIFE.

FOOD SUPPLY.

PARASITE IS PRETTY UBIQUITOUS ONE.

>> NOT UNTENABLE.

>> NOT ALL CATS HAVE TOXO.

NOT EVERY CAT ON THE LANDSCAPE HAVE TOXO OR IS IT THEIR SPECIES.

TOLD CATS ARE BAD.

HAVE TOXO, ARE GOING TO KILL MONK SEALS.

LET'S KILL ALL CATS.

WHAT I'M THINKING IS IF WE COULD JUST CHANGE THE NARRATIVE, SOME CATS MAY GET TOXO AND MAY RELEASE IT.

AND YES, IT'S ALL BAD.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IF THEY DO HAVE TOXO, IT'S IN THE GROUND, THAT'S NO GOOD.

PUTTING BIG BRUSH OVERALL CATS MAKES EVERYBODY, I MENTION POPOKO CAT SANCTUARY, THEY HAVE TOXO, NOT ALL CATS DO.

I NEED TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WE'RE TRYING TO HELP CAT AND MONK SEAL.

>>Daryl: SOME WAY OF PREVENTS CATS FROM GETTING THE TOXO.

>> YEAH.

EXACTLY QUESTION.

IF THEY'RE NOT PREYING ON NATIVE BIRDS, IF THEY'RE NOT CONSUMING OTHER ANIMALS, IF THEY'RE BEING FED EXCLUSIVELY CAT FOOD AND CONTAINED IN THE SANCTUARY NOT CAUSING PREDITATION.

THEN THOSE THREATS ARE GOING TO BE GREATLY MINIMIZED.

INDOOR CAT HIGHLY UNLIKELY TO GET INFECTED.

UNLESS YOU HAVE MICE AROUND YOUR HOUSE.

IT CAN HAPPEN.

BUT IF WE'RE RESPONSIBLE WITH HOW WE'RE TAKING CARE OF THOSE ANIMALS, I THINK THAT IT CAN VERY MUCH BE SOME CATS OR FEW CATS.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

>>Daryl: GO TO ANDRE.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CATS THAT ARE UP IN THE VERY FORESTED, VERY REMOTE AREAS, WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT?

WHEN YOU COME ACROSS THEM?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE RESULTS OF THE REMOVAL THE CAT.

AREAS REALLY REMOTE.

SMALL NUMBER OF CATS OVER ALARMING AREA.

CONTROL OPERATIONS TO REMOVE THOSE ANIMAL.

SEE ALMOST INSTANTANEOUSLY POPULATIONS INCREASES.

GOOD FORTUNE TO WORK IN THESE AREAS 12 YEARS.

FIRST TIME WENT TO ANY OF THESE SITES DEAD BIRDS EVERYWHERE.

AND NOW, 12 YEARS LATER WE'RE SEEING ANNUAL BASIS, EVERY INCREASING POPULATION RISE OF ENDANGERED BIRDS.

GRATIFYING.

>> SOMETHING HAPPENING.

BUT IT'S SHOWING IMPORTANCE OF REMOVING THESE PREDATORS FROM LANDSCAPE.

>>Daryl: WHAT HAPPENS TO THEM WHEN YOU REMOVE THEM?

>> IN THOSE AREAS, EUTHANIZED.

>>Daryl: IN THE AREA WHERE THEY LIVE?

UP THERE?

>> YEAH.

>>Daryl: THEN HOW ARE THEY ‑‑ HOW DO YOU PREVENT MORE FROM GETTING IN?

FENCED AREAS.

>> ANOTHER IMPORTANT POINT.

THEY THE CATS ARE EVERYWHERE.

>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE CONTINUOUS MANAGEMENT.

ALWAYS FREE FLOW OF ANIMALS.

EFFECTIVE PREDATOR CONTROL IN THESE AREAS TO STOP THEM COMING INTO.

ANOTHER WAY OF DOING THIS, RESTRICTED TO SMALL AREAS WHERE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET A PREDATOR PROOF FENCE.

EXPENSIVE THINGS.

ONLY PUT PREDATOR PROOF AREAS CERTAIN AREAS.

>> BECAUSE THE TERRAIN IS SO DIFFICULT.

LANAI GREAT EXAMPLE.

FENCE GOING IN THERE PROTECT.

SMALL ENCLOSURES HAVE BIRDS THAT ARE PROTECTED FROM PREDATORS.

NOT SOLUTION FOR THE MOUNTAIN.

LAST PLACES WHERE THESE BIRDS EXIST.

SEEING MANAGEMENT.

SEEING EFFECTIVENESS SHOWS THAT IF IF YOU MANAGE THOSE AREAS YOU CAN MAKE MASSIVE DIFFERENCES TO ENDANGERED BIRDS.

>>Daryl: QUESTIONS STRAIGHTFORWARD.

IF THERE ARE TRULY NO NATURAL PREDATORS, HOW ARE WE CONTROLLING FERAL CATS RIGHT NOW?

CATS OVERPOPULATED OAHU SINCE AT LEAST MID 19TH CENTURY.

CATS ARE NOT A NEW PROBLEM.

STEPHANIE, WHAT IS HAPPENING OUT THERE NOW?

I MEAN, YOU FOLKS ARE DOING SPAY/NEUTER.

HOW MANY DO YOU END UP SPAY/NEUTERING IF THERE'S THOUSANDS HOW MANY DO YOU END UP FOR A YEAR.

>> DID ABOUT 5,000 LAST YEAR.

>>Daryl: DROP IN THE BUCKET.

>> PREVENTING A LOT MORE CATS FROM BEING ON THE LANDSCAPE?

HEARD THIS HUNDRED THOUSAND FIGURE.

>> IN ADDITION TO HER 5,000, ANOTHER 3,000 BEING DONE BY CAT FRIENDS.

OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.

THEN PEOPLE DO TAKE THEM TO THEIR OWN VET.

PART OF WHAT SO GREAT ABOUT TRAP NEUTER RELEASE MANAGED PROGRAM, IT SOLVES PART OF TOXO ISSUE.

COLONY CAREGIVERS, THOUSAND ON THIS ISLAND, SPEND ALL OF THEIR TIME AND MONEY EVERY DAY GOING OUT, FEEDING THE CATS AND PART IN OF WHY THEY FEED THEM, CAT COMES INTO COLONY, YOU CAN TELL WHETHER THEY'VE BEEN TRAPPED AND NEUTERED BY EAR CLIP.

IF THEY HAVEN'T, COLONY CAREGIVING CAN SAY, I'VE GOT TO TUG THAT ONE.

GET THAT ONE.

GET IT FIXED.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

BECAUSE THEN IT REDUCES POPULATION.

YOU'RE IMMEDIATELY REDUCING POPULATION.

IF I'M FEEDING IT CAT FOOD, IT'S NOT EATING RATS.

OTHER THINGS THAT COULD GIVE THEM TOXO.

HELPING EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T, I WANT TO CREATE POPOKI PLACE, HAVE IT BIG ENOUGH TO BRING THOUSAND CATS IN THERE.

EVEN IF I DO THAT, WE'RE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET EVERY SINGLE CAT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE ON EVERY ISLAND THAT WANT TO DO THE SAME THING.

WE WANT TO GET AS MANY CATS AS WE CAN.

KNOW THERE BE A WAY.

TRAP NEUTER RELEASE PROGRAM AND MANAGE IS THE KEY.

WE NEED MORE FUNDING FOR THAT.

>>Daryl: I GOT A QUESTION.

HERE.

SHARON FROM BIG ISLAND.

WORKS IN SANCTUARIES.

CATS DOGS, PROBLEM.

NOT ENOUGH SPAY/NEUTER CLINIC.

POSSIBILITY GETS STATES COVERING COST.

COMMUNITY MEMBERS WILLING TO HELP.

HOW MUCH INVESTMENT DO WE NEED TO MAKE SOCIETY OR GOVERNMENT TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM THAT NOT BEEN ADDRESSED?

YOU MAY HAVE SOME ANSWERS.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE SUCH STAUNCH PROPONENTS TRAP NEUTER RETURN MANAGE.

COST‑EFFECTIVE WAY TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

COMPARED TO ANY OTHER POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

YOU HAVE VOLUNTEERS WILLING TO DO IT.

HUNDREDS OF VOLUNTEERS.

ACROSS THE STATE WILLING TO DO IT.

WE DO ON OAHU, FORTUNATE TO HAVE CITY SUPPORT FOR SPAY/NEUTER FUNDING.

NEIGHBOR ISLANDS ARE NOT SO FORTUNATE.

I FEEL FOR THE BIG ISLAND.

BEEN TRYING TO GET STATEWIDE FUNDING.

AND SO FAR THAT, EFFORT HAS FAILED.

WE WILL CONTINUE.

ACCESS TO SPAY/NEUTER IS CRITICAL.

TO ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE.

AND WHEN YOU ARE DOING TN RM WELL, YOU HAVE A ARMY PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO INVEST THEIR OWN RESOURCES TO ADDRESS ISSUE THAT THEY DO NOT CREATE.

THESE CATS ARE NOT ON LANDSCAPE BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF THE VOLUNTEER CAREGIVERS.

THEY ARE ADDRESSING A PROBLEM THEY CAN'T CREATE.

DOING AMAZING JOB.

WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MORE SUPPORT FOR THEIR WORK.

RATHER THAN CONTINUING TO OBSTRUCT IT.

SO IT CAN BE AS EFFECTIVE AS POSSIBLE.

>>Daryl: INTERESTING POINT.

GET BACK TO IT.

>> I THINK IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT IF IT WAS A SIMPLE SOLUTION, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION TODAY.

THIS IS A NATIONWIDE ISSUE.

NOT JUST HAWAII ISSUE.

>> TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, IN MY OPINION, I DO THINK COUNTIES AND THE STATE NEED TO GET BEHIND THIS ISSUE AND REALLY BIG SCALE.

IT'S GOING TO COST A LOT OF MONEY.

THERE'S NO ONE SOLUTION.

IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

WE'VE TRIED IT FOR DECADES NOW.

ON ONE SOLUTION OR THE OTHER.

IT'S GOING TO ALL OF US STAKEHOLDERS TO GET TOGETHER, APPLY EXPERTISE, PUT EGO AND PERSONAL PREFERENCE AS SIDE AND TRY TO COLLABORATE.

WE TRIED ON LANAI.

>> WASN'T EASY BREAKING THE MOLD FROM THE NORM.

NEED TO DO.

COMES WITH A LOT OF FUNDING AND PATIENCE.

>>Daryl: RIGHT NOW, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO BE DEEP POCKET A LOT OF RESCUES MAJOR ISSUES.

IS THERE FEDERAL MONEY THAT IS APPLIED TO SPECIFICALLY I KNOW FEDERAL MONEY TO PROTECTING ENDANGERED SPECIES.

FEDERAL MONEY TO DEALING WITH THESE PREDATORY ANIMALS.

>> WHAT WE DO AT NOAA FISHERIES CONDUCT RESEARCH, INFORM THREATS, PROVIDE STAKEHOLDERS, COMMUNITY MEMBERS DECISIONMAKERS TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THESE CHALLENGING ISSUES.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO.

ONE OF THINGS THAT I THINK IS ALSO PART OF OUR MISSION OF NOAA IS TO NOT JUST SHARE THAT SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION, BUT FIND PARTNERS AND ENGAGE IN ORDER IDENTIFY AREAS OF COMMON GROUND.

A LOT OF CLASHING VIEWPOINTS START TALKING ABOUT CULLING OR LETHALITY REMOVAL OF CATS AND TRAP NEUTER RELEASE OR VARIOUS VERSIONS OF TRAP NEUTER RETURN MANAGE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE FOUND IS IF YOU KIND OF TAKE ANALOGY OF WATER SAY GOOD THING, TOO MUCH WATER IS A FLOOD.

AND IF THE CATS ARE THE FLOOD, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT THE MOP OR SPONGE TRAP RETURN, TOOLS.

REASONS THIS GETS STUCK AND A LOT DEBATES GETS TO BE REALLY CHALLENGING.

AND I THINK WE ALL CAN UNIVERSALLY AGREE TOO MANY CATS OUTSIDE.

AND THAT SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TURN OFF THE TAP.

SO WE CAN GO TO THE HIGHER LEVEL AND HAWAIIAN HUMANE SOCIETY AND NOAA FISHERIES HANDFUL OF CONSERVATION AND PARTNERS COME TOGETHER AND PULLED TOGETHER SOME ADVICE FOR PET OWNERS.

THAT'S ONE GROUP OF OUR SOCIETY AND COMMUNITY CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

>>Daryl: I WOULD LIKE TO NOW SORT OF, ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH.

I WOULD LIKE YOU TO START DESCRIBING, KEONE YOU CAN PITCH IN.

WHAT IS THE CONCEPT OF THE SANCTUARY OR THE THAT I MEAN, DO YOU LITERALLY THINK YOU CAN TAKE IDENTIFY AREAS WHERE YOU DON'T WANT THE CATS LIVING, AND HAVE A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN AND WHAT IS THE SCALE NECESSARY TO ACTUALLY DO THAT?

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING.

IMPORTANT.

BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS BE PART OF MULTIPRONG APPROACH, SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM.

RECOGNIZE IT'S HUGE.

AND LANAI CATS SANCTUARY IS THE IDEAL MODEL THAT WE'RE TRYING TO REPLICATE.

WE KNOW OAHU IS SO MUCH BIGGER NEED TO BE ON A BIGGER SCALE.

TRYING TO PURCHASE LAND THAT IS GOING TO BE LARGE ENOUGH THAT WE CAN START SMALL.

I CAN'T HAVE A THOUSAND CATS OVERNIGHT.

I CAN GET LAND BIG ENOUGH WE CAN PLAN TO BUILD IN ENCLOSURES THAT GET LARGER.

SO WHAT THEY ARE, ENCLOSURES THAT GET LARGER.

PREDATOR FENCES FOR CATS.

BASICALLY.

GOING TO KEEP THE CATS INSIDE.

THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO ESCAPE.

THEY WILL BE TREES LOVELY, PEACEFUL, LIKE A PARK, PEOPLE CAN VISIT AND SIT WITH THE CATS ENJOY THE CATS.

AND OUR GOAL IS WE'VE ACTUALLY TALKED WITH THE DLNR AND/OR PEOPLE ABOUT TAKING THE CATS FROM THE BEACHES AND PARKS WHERE THEY WOULD BE THE MOST ENDANGERED TO THE MONK SEAL.

AND ACTUALLY, WORKING LOVE TO WORK WITH ANDRE WE IF HE WITH CAN GET THOSE CATS INSTEAD OF EUTHANIZING THEM.

COME TO US.

PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS WE WANT TO WORK WITH THOSE FIRST.

THAT'S OUR FIRST PRIORITY.

IS TO REMOVE THE CATS FROM THE LANDSCAPE.

WHERE THEY CAN BE HARM TO BIRDS AND MONK SEALS.

>>Daryl: SCALE.

CAN BE JUST ONE PLACE.

YOU NEED LIKE MULTIPLE PLACES.

>> I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT TOO.

NEED ONE ON EVERY ISLAND FOR SURE.

I'M ACTUALLY LOOK AT 20‑ACRE PIECE OF PROPERTY BECAUSE I THINK THAT IF WE GET THE FUNDING AND SOURCE AT THAT WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO CARE FOR ALL OF THESE ANIMALS, I MEAN, THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE WITH US FOR LIFE.

TEN, 15 YEARS.

SO I NEED TO BE ABLE TO FEED THEM.

HAVE MEDICAL CARE.

IF WE CAN GET SERIOUS FUNDING, THEN WE CAN BRING IN MORE AND MORE AND MORE AS WE GROW.

A THOUSAND CATS.

I DON'T KNOW.

IF I HAVE ENOUGH LAND, MAYBE 5,000 CATS.

IF I GET ENOUGH FUNDING.

DON'T FALL OVER.

GIVE ME A HEART ATTACK.

>> ANIMAL GUY.

PUT STUFF IN CONTEXT.

STARTED TEN YEARS AGO, LANAI CAT SANCTUARY, OPERATING BUDGET, WAS 1 HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS.

THAT WAS FOR 300 ROUGHLY 350 CATS AND THREE STAFF.

FAST FORWARD.

TEN YEARS LATER.

OUR ANNUAL BUDGET RIGHT NOW IS $1.5 MILLION.

675 CATS.

HIGH QUALITY CARE ALL THE CATS.

REALLY IMPORTANT TO KNOW.

THAT I'M NOT TRYING TO DISCOURAGE HOLLY OR ANYONE.

HELPED HOLLY IN MONTHS PREVIOUS TO THIS.

BUT THERE'S A REALITY, IS IN ORDER TO DO IT RIGHT, IT'S NOT JUST BUILDING FENCES AND PUTTING CATS AND GIVING THEM SOME WATER AND FOOD.

YOU NEED TO PROVIDE HIGH QUALITY CARE.

SCALE UP.

>>Daryl: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

WHAT IS HIGH QUALITY CARE MEAN?

>> VETERINARY CARE.

LANAI, TEN YEARS AGO, HAD 500 TOURISTS COME AND VISIT THE SANCTUARY.

LAST YEAR, HAD ABOUT 16,000 VISITORS.

>> COMES OUT TO ABOUT 1200 VISITORS A MONTH.

PAST TWO MONTHS, HAD 2,000 VISITORS COME FROM AROUND THE WORLD JUST TO LANAI TO SEE THE CAT SANCTUARY.

DONORS.

OUT OF 1.5 MILLION, I WOULD SAY 96% OF THAT MONEY COMES FROM DONATIONS.

>>Daryl: FOLLOW UP ONE THING.

>> GETTING NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT.

LAWS IN HAWAII NEEDS TO LOOK AT NEW ZEALAND AND OUTLOOK ON WILDLIFE.

HAD THE SAME ISSUE FERAL CATS DANGERED GOT RID OF CATS.

ANYONE CONSIDERING LAWS LIKE THOSE IN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND.

IF NOT, WHY NOT?

WHAT IS THE, WAS THAT JUST A PURE, I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT RECALLING ERADICATION OF RATS AND RABBITS IN NEW ZEALAND.

>> NEW ZEALAND AND AUSTRALIA BOTH HAVE VERY STRONG POLICIES AGAINST CATS ON THE LANDSCAPE.

IT'S NOT WORKING.

THEY'RE SPENDING, I CAN'T EVEN FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH THEY ARE SPENDING BECAUSE NONE OF THEIR GOVERNMENTS WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE AT LEAST 2015.

WITHOUT MEASURABLE RESULTS.

SO I DON'T THINK YOU WANT TO MODEL OUR POLICIES AFTER FAILED POLICIES IN AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND.

>> I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THEIR POLICIES ARE GEARED TOWARDS WILDLIFEPROTECTION.

HAVE HAD MEASURABLE RESULTS IN THE AREAS.

SIMPLE THING.

IF A BREEDING BIRD IS GOING TO BE KILLED BY A CAT, IT'S NOT KILLED BY CAT, CAT NO LONGER THERE.

BIRD IS GOING TO VALUE CHICKS.

MEASURABLE RESULT REMOVING CATS.

GOING BACK TO MY EXPERIENCES ON KAUAI, REMOVE CATS FROM THE LANDSCAPE, BIRDS RESPOND.

AGAIN, LIKE GOING BACK TO COMMON GROUND, COMPLEX PROBLEM, WE CAN ALL AGREE THAT CATS SHOULD BE INDOORS AND I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF SANCTUARIES.

BEEN TO THE LANAI SANCTUARY.

REALLY RUN SANCTUARY.

KIND OF IN IDEAL SITUATION BECAUSE IT'S SMALLER ISLAND.

YOU GUYS ARE ABLE TO BRING CATS IN.

BUT THE THING THAT YOU SEE FROM CATS SANCTUARIES IS SIZE AND CAPACITY.

THERE YOU BUILD SITE.

BRING THE CATS IN.

CATS HAVE TO GET A CERTAIN LEVEL OF CARE.

YOU CAN'T, COST A LOT OF MONEY.

AND THEN YOU REACH CARRYING CAPACITY.

YOU HAVE TO EXPAND.

REALLY IMPORTANT TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX.

FOR KEEPING CATS OUTDOORS.

PARTICULARLY IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A CAT COLONY, REALLY BAD AREA CLOSE TO SEA BIRD COLONY OR IMPORTANT WETLAND, YOU HAVE PEOPLE PASSIONATE PEOPLE CARING FOR THEIR CATS.

WOULD PROTECT CATS.

REMOVING THOSE CATS PUTTING THEM IN SANCTUARY GREAT OPTION BECAUSE THAT PERSON CAN SEE THEIR CAT SAFELY PROTECTED.

>>Daryl: IS MOVE ON.

I JUST WANTED TO ALSO PUT THIS TO YOU.

GIVEN WHAT ANDRE WAS JUST SAYING.

GOT A QUESTION SOMEWHERE SOMEONE WAS SAYING.

IS IT LEGAL TO GO OUT AND FEED CATS?

I MEAN, CAN YOU REALLY GET THE COOPERATION OF SOME OF THE MORE REALLY ACTIVIST PEOPLE WHO HAVE PARTICULAR COLONIES TAKING CARE OF?

WILL THEY AGREE TO SUPPORT REMOVAL OF THAT COLONY.

>> BEGGING FOR SANCTUARY.

THEY'RE THRILLED THAT THE SANCTUARY, READY.

SHE WANT TO HELP.

THEY WANTS TO BE PART OF SOLUTION.

I WANTED TO ADDRESS YOUR NEW ZEALAND ISSUE.

THE YEAR BEFORE, THIS LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION, BILL WAS BROUGHT INTRODUCED TO DO THAT EXACT SAME THING.

CULL THE CATS THE WAY THEY'VE DONE IN NEW ZEALAND.

GOT SO MUCH OPPOSITION, LITERALLY BROKE THE MACHINE.

PEOPLE ARE GOING CRAZY PRINTING OUT.

YOU THINK YOU GET A LOT CARDS RIGHT NOW.

UNREAL.

HAD TO TABLE IT.

CAT LOVERS SAYING NO WAY.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KILL THE CATS WANTED TO HAVE DROP POISON.

HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE IT'S.

LAWS DROP POISON TO KILL CATS ERADICATE THE CATS.

WHOLE IDEA CULL THE CATS.

WHO HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

KILL OTHER THINGS.

THEN OTHER THINGS COULD EAT THAT.

>>Daryl: JUST TO GO BACK TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKING.

THESE FOLKS, AND WE'VE ALL SEEN THEM, WE KNOW ABOUT THE STORY ABOUT THE KONA SITUATION, WHERE THERE WAS A BIG CONFLICT BETWEEN DLNR, TRYING TO PROTECT THE NENE, CAT FEEDERS JUST DIDN'T WANT TO GIVE UP THAT LOCATION.

I MEAN, IS THERE A WILLINGNESS IN THOSE FOLKS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF JUST KEEP FEEDING?

EVEN IF IT MEANS, I'M GOING TO TAKE THIS AWAY.

>> WANT TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT A LITTLE BIT.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT THINGS HAPPENING.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST DUMPING FOOD FOR GROUPS OF CATS THAT THEY SEE.

NOBODY EITHER OF THESE TABLE OR SERIOUSLY INVOLVED ENDORSES THAT.

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE FEEDING CATS NOT MAKE SURE CATS ARE SPAYED NEUTERED.

>>Daryl: WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE?

>> EDUCATION.

>>Daryl: THEY'VE BEEN EDUCATED.

>> NO.

THEY DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS HELPING THE CATS.

SO THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THERE ARE COLONIES THAT ARE DOING THIS.

>> THAT IS WHERE THE MANAGEMENT PART COMES IN.

AND WHERE IF COLONY CAREGIVERS CAN WORK WITH THE PROPERTY MANAGERS, PUBLIC OR PRIVATE, WHERE THEY'RE WORKING, THEY CAN COME UP WITH AGREEMENTS, COME UP WITH STANDARDS, CAN COME UP WITH MECHANISMS TO KEEP PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING ROGUE AND JUST FEEDING THE CATS FROM BEING PART OF PROBLEM.

FOR THAT, YOU HAVE TO HAVE EFFECTIVE MANAGEMENT.

AND I WANT TO SEE THIS CONVERSATION NOT BREAK DOWN ON THE USUAL FAULT LINES.

BECAUSE WHAT I LIKE TO SEE IS CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW WHICH HAVE TO BRING MULTIPLE MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES TO BEAR DEPENDING ON THE SPECIFIC SITUATIONS.

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING FOR IT.

RM IN THE FOREST RESERVES.

MAKE ZERO SENSE TO ANYBODY.

WE NEED TO LOOK THE AT MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS TO GET AT WHAT IS VERY LARGE COMPLEX PROBLEM.

BUT I WOULD PUSH BACK AGAINST THE NOTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING TNRM FOR DECADES WE HAVEN'T.

AND TWO, WE HAVEN'T EVEN YET STARTED TO DO IT IN ANY KIND OF TARGETED WAY.

>>Daryl: NEXT QUESTION.

I WANTED TO ASK MICHELLE THIS.

ALSO, ANDRE.

TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

YOU FOLKS KNOW WHERE THESE COLONIES ARE.

IN YOU'RE AWARE, YOU'RE OUT THERE, YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

OF TERMS OF IN RELATION TO THE SPECIES, THEY'RE NEARBY.

DO YOU NEED TO SET A STRATEGY HERE TO SAY, HERE'S OUR PRIORITY PLACES WHERE WE WANT TO GET THE CATS OUT.

NOT JUST THIS BLANKET GET THEM OUT OF THE PARKS.

GET THEM OUT OF THE BEACHES.

BUT IS THERE OTHER SPECIFIC PLACES THAT COULD BE IDENTIFIED WHERE THIS SHOULD HAPPEN FIRST AND MOST AGGRESSIVELY?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT'S PROBABLY VERY SPECIES DEPENDENT.

FOR MARINE WILDLIFE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO KNOW IS THE LAND TO SEA FLOW OF TOXOPLASMOSIS.

>>Daryl: WHAT I'M GETTING AT.

>> DEPOSITED.

BUT MONK SEALS ARE NOT JUST LOCALIZED SWIMMERS.

SO WHERE A SEAL SHOWS UP DOESN'T TELL US WHERE IT WAS EXPOSE.

WE HAVE BEEN DOING RESEARCH TO LOOK AT THAT.

OAHU, HANDFUL OF THESE CASES AND WE'VE SEEN THAT THE LIKELIHOOD OF US PICKING UP CASE TOXOPLASMOSIS HIGHER.

BECAUSE TOXOPLASMA PARASITES IN THE ENVIRONMENT PERSIST THERE FOR MONTHS 20 YEARS.

THEY'RE REALLY STURDY LITTLE THINGS.

AND YOU CAN'T SEE THEM.

CAN'T TRACK THEM.

SO WHEN THEY'RE DEPOSITED ON THE LANDSCAPE, WHEREVER THAT IS, THERE'S A REASONABLE CHANCE THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IT TO THE OCEAN.

>>Daryl: WHAT I'M TRYING TO TO GET AT, DIDN'T QUITE QUITE GET THE ANSWER, TO SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO IDENTIFY PRIORITY AREAS WHERE YOU COULD START AND PUT FOCUS RESOURCES?

>> I THINK HAVE YOU THAT.

>> WE DID DO EXERCISE LOOK ON KAUAI.

AT ALL THE DIFFERENT ENDANGERED SPECIES WHICH THERE ARE MANY, AND THEN LOCATION OF CAT COLONIES IDENTIFY AREAS SHOULD BE REMOVED.

WETLANDS LOST 250 WATER BIRDS.

ONLY A THOUSAND LEFT IN THE WORLD IN FOUR YEARS BY CATS.

IDENTIFY AREAS CLEAR ONE.

AREAS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE OAHU KANE COLONIES, WEDGE TAIL SHEAR WATER.

CATS COLONIES.

CAN RESULT IN WIDESPREAD KILLS.

MAKENA POINT.

100 DEAD IN THE COURSE OF SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

PEOPLE FEEDING CATS.

ALSO TNR CATS, EAR TIP CATS.

ANIMALS ARE GETTING FED AND FULL.

BUT THEY'RE STILL GOING OUT AND TAKING OUT ENDANGERED BIRDS.

>>Daryl: I HEARD CATS DON'T NECESSARILY, HATE TO GENERALIZE ABOUT CATS, GET IN TROUBLE, CATS FROM, HOW DO I SAY THIS?

SOMETIMES THEY KILL FOR FUN.

IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE HUNGRY.

THEY ARE ANIMALS THAT WILL KILL BECAUSE THEY'RE PRACTICING WHERE THEY ARE.

I DON'T KNOW.

>> WE ALL ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CATS WILL KILL BIRDS.

CATS WILL KILL.

BUT IF THEY'RE IN A COLONY UP IN THE MOUNTAINS.

WE'RE NOT MANAGING THE COLONY UP THERE.

CAN'T GO CLIMBING UP THERE.

WE KNOW WE CAN'T SAVE EVERY SINGLE CAT.

WE KNOW WE CAN'T.

WE CAN TRY.

IF WE CAN GET POPOKI PLACE UP AND RUNNING, AND ONE ON THE BIG ISLAND, ONE ON KAUAI, WHICH THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE THAT REALLY WANT TO GO DO THIS, IF WE CAN GET SUPPORT OF THE COMMUNITY TO SAY, WE'LL GIVE SOME FUNDING TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, WE WANT THIS TO HAPPEN, WE CAN START TAKING IN THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE AREAS THAT WE KNOW THE MOST.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, KAENA POINT PERFECT EXAMPLE.

GOT A PREDATOR FENCE ALREADY DONE TO KEEP BIRDS SAFE.

BIRDS FLY WHEREVER THEY WANT.

KEEP THE CATS OUT BECAUSE OF NEW PREDATOR FENCING, IF WE CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE BUILD A PERIMETER FENCE, LET THE CAT PEOPLE GO IN AND TRAP THOSE CATS, AND TAKE THEM TO POPOKI PLACE, THEN CAT WILL LIVE.

>>Daryl: MOVING QUICKLY AS I CAN.

ONLY GOT ABOUT SIX OR SEVEN MINUTES LEFT.

HOW FAST THIS HAS GONE.

WE ALWAYS KIND OF LOOK TO NEW SCIENCE.

NEW TECHNOLOGY AND STUFF.

IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS.

WE'VE TRIED EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS NOW.

ONE PERSON THROWS OUT, CAN SCIENTISTS DEVELOP ADDITIVE FOR THE FOOD, GIVEN FERAL COLONIES WOULD MAKE THEM STERILE.

NO CATS WOULD BE HARMED.

BUT REPRODUCTION WOULD END.

JUDY FROM KAILUA.

IN EMAIL.

THAT STEPHANIE,.

>> WORK IN PROGRESS.

>>Daryl: OTHER TECHNOLOGIES THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY DEAL WITH THIS.

>> DON'T HAVE ORAL CONTRA ACCEPTATIVE FOR CATS YET.

DON'T HAVE A ORAL CONTRACEPTIVE FOR THE CAT.

FOREFRONT IN THE COMMUNITY.

SAFE AND CONTRACEPTIVE IS CREATED.

WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

>>Daryl: LOVE TO SEE A VACCINE FOR TOXOPLASMOSIS.

ENVIRONMENT VACCINE.

DON'T HAVE TOXOPLASMOSIS YET.

VACCINE DEVELOPMENT CAN HAPPEN.

THAT WOULD GREAT.

WHERE THERE'S A WILL.

THERE'S A WAY.

NOT OFF THE TABLE.

TREATMENT OF MONK SEALS ONCE THEY GET SICK HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S BEEN A TOUGH ROAD.

DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE'RE GOING TO STOP TRYING.

>> I'M GOOD.

>>Daryl: SO I PROMISE YOU GUYS I WOULDN'T DO THIS.

BUT I'M GOING TO DO IT.

I HAVE A BIG PILE OF QUESTIONS HERE.

LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR THE SOLUTION FOR THEIR PARTICULAR PROBLEM.

IS IT LAWFUL FOR DOMESTICATED CATS TO ROAM NEIGHBORHOOD.

SOMETIMES THEY POOP IN THEIR BACKYARDS.

BRIAN IN MAKIKI I CAN RELATE.

WHAT DO I DO WITH CATS THAT I HAVE TRAPPED?

THAT'S TAKEN THEM TO HUMANE SOCIETY.

>> WE WILL SPAY AND NEUTER THEM.

>> EXCEPT ON THE BIG ISLAND NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE SHUTDOWN?

>> I CAN'T SPEAK TO WHAT THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS ARE DOING.

>> TRAP NEUTER GROUP OVER THERE.

ALOHA OASIS.

>>Daryl: IT'S NOT, HUMANE SOCIETY?

>> NO.

>>Daryl: PLACES.

>> DOING TRAP NEUTER RETURN.

>>Daryl: YOU GET A CAT YOU TAKE IT TO ONE OF THESE PLACE.

AT LEAST GET SPAYED AND NEUTERED.

>> WORK ON HAVING SPAY/NEUTER CLINIC.

EVERY MONTHS.

HAVE VETS.

>>Daryl: NEIGHBOR'S CAT POOPS IN MY YARD DAILY.

APPROACH NEIGHBOR.

BRUSH ME OFF.

WHO CAN I CALL?

CONTINUE BREEDING.

ANONYMOUS.

EVERYONE UPSET ABOUT CATS IN THEIR YARD.

>> WE HAVE HAWAIIAN HUMANE SOCIETY, ON THEIR WEBSITE, HAS A WHOLE PAGE ON HUMANE DETERRENTS YOU CAN USE TO KEEP CATS OUT OF YOUR YARD, OFF YOUR CAR.

UPSET ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBOR'S CATS.

ON OAHU, CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS, ON OAHU, IF YOU HAVE A NEIGHBOR SEEMS TO BE OVERWHELM WITH BREEDING POPULATION OF CATS, PLEASE CALL US.

AND OUR DISPATCHERS CAN HAVE OUR FIELD SERVICES EDUCATE THEM, OFFER SPAY/NEUTER SERVICE.

GET IT UNDER CONTROL.

>>Daryl: YOU TALK ABOUT BREEDING POPULATIONS.

IF HOW DO WE KNOW IF THEY'RE BREEDING OR NOT BREEDING?

WE.

>> TYPICALLY SEE KITTEN IF THEY'RE BREEDING.

GOOD INDICATION.

>>Daryl: MY JOB IS TO ASK DUMB QUESTIONS.

(LAUGHTER).

>> IF YOU'RE SEEING KITTENS THEY'RE BREEDING.

>>Daryl: IF THEY'RE NOT, NOT SEEING KITTEN, JUST NOT WORRY ABOUT IT.

>> I WOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT IT.

I THINK CHALLENGE IS SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE TRYING TO BRING NO CATS ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T WANT THE CATS THERE.

SO ASKING THEM TO SPAY AND NEUTER AND RETURN IT BACK TO WHERE THEY DON'T WANT THE CATS, I THINK THAT IS WHERE IT BECOMES EXTREMELY COMPLICATED AND DIFFICULT.

>>Daryl: AGAIN, GOING BACK TO IF THERE'S A CAT THAT KEEPS COMING TO MY HOUSE, AND I DON'T WANT IT POOPING IN MY YARD, WHAT ARE MY SOLUTIONS?

ALREADY SPAYED AND NEUTERED THE NEIGHBORHOOD CAT.

I DON'T KNOW WHO OWNS IT.

COMING THROUGH MY YARD.

WHAT IS THE BEST WAY PUT SOMETHING OUT?

MOSTLY NIGHT TIME.

>> DETERRENTS.

SPRINKLER MOTION DETECTER, SPRINKLER CALLED SCARECROW.

FIND IT ON AMAZON.

PRETTY EFFECTIVE.

>>Daryl: WATERS YOUR YARD.

>> WATERS YOUR YARD AND PEOPLE WALKING BY.

IF YOU'RE NOT CAREFUL.

HUMANE DETERRENTS.

>>Daryl: HUMANE TO PEOPLE THERE.

>> I WOULD SAY THESE KIND OF DETERRENTS OUT OF YOUR YARD.

DRAW ATTENTION BACK TO THE EXTINCTION CRISIS.

WE ARE LOSING LITERALLY LOSING SPECIES ALMOST ON ANNUAL BASIS.

ABOUT TO LOSE ANOTHER SPECIES ON KAUAI.

NOT BECAUSE OF CATS BUT CATS PLAY A BIG ROLE IN THE EXTINCTION OF SPECIES.

ALL VERY WELL TO KEEP CAT OUT YOUR YARD.

CAT IS TO GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND KILL SOMETHING ELSE.

KEEPING THEM OFF THE LANDSCAPE.

SANCTUARY IS ONE OF THE TOOLS.

>> WE CAN'T HAVE CATS IN HAWAII ON THE LANDSCAPE.

BIRDS HAVE BEEN A PART OF THE ISLANDS SINCE BEFORE HUMANS ARRIVED, IMPORTANT PART OF HAWAIIAN CULTURE.

HAWAIIAN CREATION CHANT.

PEOPLE HAVE USED THEM TO FIND ISLANDS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

SO DUTY OF CARE TO THESE INENDANGERED AND INDEMIC SPECIES.

>> LANAI CAT SANCTUARY CARES ABOUT BOTH SPECIES.

ENDANGERED SPECIES AND CATS.

TAKE TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

BRING IN TRULY FERAL WILDCAT HASN'T SEEN A HUMAN TO INTERVENE.

BRING IT TO OUR SANCTUARY.

40% BECOME ADOPTABLE AND SOCIALIZED.

WE TAKE IT TO THE NEXT LEVEL.

IF THAT CAT CAME FROM A BIRD SENSITIVE AREA, WE AGREE NOT TO ADOPT THAT CAT OUT LOCALLY ON ISLAND TO ANY RESIDENTS.

>>Daryl: WHEN A ADOPT OUT A CAT DO YOU TELL THE PERSON KEEP THE CAT IN YOUR HOUSE.

>> WE DO ABSOLUTELY.

KICKER TO IT.

WE BRING IN THE CAT FROM BIRD SENSITIVE AREA.

THAT CAT GETS ONLY GET ADOPTED OUT OF STATE.

THAT BIG DAUNTING TASK FOR US.

SOMETHING WE BELIEVE IN.

>> WE DON'T WANT THAT CAT TO GO BACK INTO A RESIDENCE HOME AND ACCIDENTALLY OR INTENTIONALLY BE LET OUT AND FIND ITS WAY BACK UP TO THE HALE.

>>Daryl: LAST QUESTION.

OF OUR SHOW.

I'VE HAD SEVERAL QUESTIONS COME IN ABOUT LAWS.

SHOULD WE MAKE ILLEGAL TO FEED CATS IN THE LANDSCAPE.

OUTSIDE.

SHOULD WE MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO LET CATS BE OUTSIDE.

SHOULD WE MAKE IT, VARIOUS QUESTIONS.

IS THERE A LAW THAT CAN BE PASSED, CAN YOU, AS I THINK ANDRE WOULD LIKE TO SAY, CATS HAVE TO STAY INSIDE?

IS THAT WE NEED TO DO?

RIGHT TO HAVE CATS OUTSIDE.

>> I DON'T THINK WE LEGISLATE OUR WAY OUT OF ISSUE.

DENIES REALITY THERE ARE CATS OUTSIDE.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO FIGURE OUT WAYS WE CAN ALL WORK TOGETHER TO REDUCE THOSE NUMBERS HUMANELY AND QUICK A AS POSSIBLE.

>>Daryl: THANKS VERY MUCH.

WE ARE DONE.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT, AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS: STEPHANIE KENDRICK FROM THE HAWAIIAN HUMANE SOCIETY, MICHELLE BARBIERI FROM THE PACIFIC ISLANDS FISHERIES SCIENCE CENTER AND FROM THE LANAI CAT SANCTUARY KEONI VAUGHN.

HOLLY HOLOWACH WITH POPOKI PLACE OAHU CAT SANCTUARY AND ANDRE RAINE FROM ARCHIPELAGO RESEARCH AND CONSERVATION.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, IT’S A PROJECT THAT’S BEEN TALKED ABOUT FOR YEARS.

FEDERAL FUNDING IS COMING IN FOR A PEDESTRIAN AND BICYCLE BRIDGE TO BE BUILT OVER THE ALA WAI CANAL.

THE ALA PONO BRIDGE WOULD CONNECT WAIKIKI WITH MCCULLY AND MOILIILI, BUT NOT EVERYONE WANTS THE EASY ACCESS.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI`I.

ALOHA!