A NEW PUSH TO SAVE THE HAIKU STAIRS OR STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN.

ADVOCATES ARE CHALLENGING THE CITY OF HONOLULU’S PLAN TO REMOVE THE OFF‑LIMITS LANDMARK IN KANEOHE.

CITY OFFICIALS SAY IT’S TOO MUCH OF A LIABILITY AND TOO EXPENSIVE TO MAINTAIN THE STAIRS.

HOWEVER, SLOW PROGRESS IN STARTING DEMOLITION AND RISING COSTS ARE PRESENTING OTHER ISSUES.

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVE STREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII START NOW.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M YUNJI DE NIES.

IT’S BEEN OFF‑LIMITS FOR DECADES, YET THE HAIKU STAIRS CONTINUES TO ATTRACT HIKERS WILLING TO BREAK THE LAW TO TAKE IN EPIC VIEWS AND, IN SOME CASES, CAPTURE THAT PERFECT SHOT FOR SOCIAL MEDIA.

CONCERNED ABOUT LIABILITY AND SAFETY, THE CITY IS PLANNING TO DEMOLISH THE WORLD WAR II‑ERA STRUCTURE AT A COST OF NEARLY 2‑AND‑A‑HALF MILLION DOLLARS, BUT A LOCAL NON‑PROFIT ORGANIZATION IS NOW SUING TO STOP THE REMOVAL CITING WHAT THEY CALL ENVIRONMENTAL AND ACCESS ISSUES.

AND WHERE DOES THIS BATTLE LEAVE NEIGHBORS WHO SAY THAT HIKERS TRESPASS TO ACCESS THE STAIRS AT ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT WITH LITTLE REGARD FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE?

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS, AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW TO OUR GUESTS.

SEAN PAGER IS THE PRESIDENT OF FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS, THE GROUP BEHIND THE LATEST LAWSUIT.

IT’S A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS WHOSE MISSION IS TO PROTECT THE STAIRS AND THE SURROUNDING AREA THROUGH STEWARDSHIP AND MANAGED ACCESS.

LENA HAAPALA IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE KOKONUT KOALITION, A NONPROFIT DEDICATED TO PROTECTING AND PRESERVING THE KOKO CRATER STAIRS IN EAST OAHU.

THE GROUP ALSO SUPPORTS PRESERVATION OF HAIKU STAIRS.

STATE REPRESENTATIVE SCOT MATAYOSHI REPRESENTS PART OF KANEOHE.

HE HAS BEEN WORKING WITH RESIDENTS WHO LIVE BELOW THE STAIRS TO ADDRESS THEIR CONCERNS.

LORRIE ANN SANTOS HAS LIVED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AT THE BASE OF HAIKU STAIRS FOR MORE THAN 35 YEARS.

IN HER PROFESSIONAL LIFE, SHE HAS WORKED FOR VARIOUS COMMUNITY, NON‑PROFIT AND HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATIONS INCLUDING THE LEGAL AID SOCIETY OF HAWAII AND THE QUEEN’S MEDICAL CENTER.

WE DO WANT TO ADD THAT WE INVITED THE CITY TO PARTICIPATE.

HOWEVER, THE BLANGIARDI ADMINISTRATION DECLINED SAYING IT WANTED TO FIRST FINALIZE THE PROCUREMENT OF A VENDOR TO REMOVE THE STAIRS.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS: I WANT TO START WITH YOU SEAN.

>> TELL US ABOUT THIS LAWSUIT AND WHAT YOU'RE ASKING FROM THE CITY.

>> BASICALLY ASKING THE CITY TO DO WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE BEGINNING.

WHICH IS TO DO A PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW OF THE IMPLICATIONS OF FLYING HELICOPTERS FOR 2 YEARS UP OVER THE MOUNTAIN WHICH IS FEDERALLY PROTECTED CRITICAL HABITAT.

AND THEY HAVE NOTE REALLY STUDIED THE EFFECT THAT WILL HAVE ON VERY RARE ENDANGERED SPECIES THAT LIVE IN THAT VICINITY.

HAVEN'T DONE ANY STUDIES OF WAYS TO MITIGATE SOIL RUNOFF FROM POLLUTING DOWNSTREAM WATERSHED.

CONCERNED THEY HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THE PROCESS.

HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSPARENT AND TRUSTING THEM TO STOP AND GO THROUGH THIS, PUBLIC AND TRANSPARENT OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY DISCUSS WHAT IS THE COSTS, HARMS ARE DOING THIS, AND ALSO LOOKING AT THE ALTERNATIVES.

>>Yunji: WHAT ARE THOSE ALTERNATIVES.

>> WE WOULD PROPOSE, WE HAVE ACTUALLY SENT MAYOR DETAILED PLAN TO MANAGE THE STAIRS.

TO KEEP THEM IN PLACE.

REALLY MUCH SAFER WAY TO PROTECT THE ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO RIP THEM OFF THE MOUNTAIN.

AND YOU WOULD MANAGE IT.

IT WOULD BE LIKE HANAUMA BAY OR DIAMOND HEAD, WHERE PEOPLE COULD SIGN UP.

SLOT WHEN YOU WANT TO MAKE A RESERVATIONS.

A SAFETY BRIEFING.

WE WOULD HAVE A GUIDED ESCORT VISIT LET PEOPLE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT, MAKE SURE THEY'RE READY FOR THIS.

THIS WOULD BE A WAY TO MANAGE THE RESOURCE SAFELY, ENVIRONMENTALLY SUSTAINABLE, AND ALSO, RESPECT CULTURAL PROTOCOLS A LOT OF QUESTIONS AN COMMENTS COMING IN.

WE LOVE TO SEE THAT EARLY ON.

ONE FROM LILINOE AND LORI ANN WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO ADDRESS THIS.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE AIR REASONS RESIDENTS SUPPORT REMOVAL OF STAIRS IN.

>> FIRST IS SAFETY.

CONTINUAL ILLEGAL HIKERS.

TRESPASS THROUGH PROPERTY.

NO REGARD FOR THE ERECTED SIGNS THAT IS A KEEP OUT, GOVERNMENT PROPERTY, NO TRESPASSING.

THEY SCALE THE ERECTED FENCES THAT WERE PUT UP BY THE GOVERNMENT.

GO THROUGH PROPERTIES ALL ALONG WHERE I LIVE, I'LL COME HOME AND MY WATER HOSE IS OUT.

SO PEOPLE COME AND JUST USE WHATEVER THEY WANT.

TO THEM, IT'S THEIR RIGHT.

THEY CAN GO WHEREVER THEY WANT TO GO.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT THEY AREN'T SUPPOSED TO GO THERE.

AND THEY HAVE NO REGARD FOR THE RESIDENTS WHO LIVE THERE.

ONE DAY, I LET MY DOG OUT OF THE HOUSE AND GROUP OF HIKERS WERE WALKING BY AND THEY THREW A CHOCOLATE BAR IN MY YARD, DETRIMENTAL TO DOGS.

IT'S JUST A CONSTANT ONSLAUGHT.

WHEN I'VE ASKED HOW DID THEY FIND OUT ABOUT THE STAIRS, IT'S SOCIAL MEDIA.

OR PUBLICATIONS THAT TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT AND WHERE IT IS, WHERE, LOCAL CUSTOMS IS SACRED AREAS ARE SPACES LIKE HAIKU OR LIKE ONE FISHERMEN GO FISHING, THEY JUST THEY'RE GOING TO GO HOLOHOLO AND THOSE WHO KNOW THEM, WE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

THEY DON'T NEED TO SAY WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

OR WHERE THEY'RE GOING.

IT'S JUST NATIVE INTELLIGENCE THAT WE'RE ALL CONNECTED.

AND SAME WITH THIS MAUNA.

IT'S CONSIDERED ALEWALANI.

WHICH WAS NEVER KANAKA WERE NEVER ALLOWED TO TRAMPLE OR SCALE THESE WERE RESERVED FOR LIKE THE HIGHEST OF ALII.

SO IT WASN'T SOMETHING THAT WE AS RESIDENTS HAVE EVEN CONSIDERED DOING.

IT'S JUST A RESPECTED PLACE THAT PROVIDES NATURAL RESOURCES FOR US.

>>Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE SCOT MATAYOSHI I WANT TO BRING YOU ON THIS.

IDEA MANAGED ACCESS PAN BANDIED ABOUT FOR SOME TIME NOW.

WHY WILL OR WON'T THAT WORK?

>> I DON'T THINK IT WILL WORK BECAUSE FUNDAMENTALLY MANAGED ACCESS REQUIRES SECURITY.

I DO WANT TO SAY, I THINK TWO SIDES ACTUALLY AGREE ON QUITE A BIT.

RESIDENTS FOR THEIR PART THEY WANT THE TRESPASSING TO STOP.

I KNOW FRIENDS OF HAIKU ARE ABSOLUTELY AGAINST THAT AS WELL.

NO ONE WANTS PEOPLE TRESPASSING THROUGH PRIVATE PROPERTY.

NO ONE WANTS RESIDENTS DISTURBED.

NO ONE WANTS PEOPLE USING YOUR HOSE.

EFFECTIVE SECURITY.

BOTH SIDES AGREE THAT THE CURRENT SECURITY IN PLAY COST OF QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR IS INEFFECTIVE.

FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS WITH US ON.

THAT STEWART IN PLACE DOESN'T WORK.

PEOPLE ARE STILL SECURITY DOESN'T WORK.

TRESPASSING.

GOING THROUGH YARDS 2:00 A.M. EVERY MORNING FOR THE PAST TWO DECADES IT'S.

SOMEONE SNEAKS THROUGH YOUR YARD, DOG DOGS BARKING, EVERYONE DOGS STARTS BARKING.

EVERYONE WOKE UP 2:00 A.M.

IN ORDER FOR MANAGED ACCESS, YOU NEED EFFECTIVE SECURITY.

EXCLUDE THOSE PEOPLE WITHOUT TICKETS OR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THERE THROUGH THE MANAGED ACCESS PLAN.

FIRST MET WITH HAIKU STAIRS 2020 WORKED WITH THEM FOR ABOUT A YEAR WITH THE CALDWELL MANAGEMENT TO TRY TO MAKE MANAGED ACCESS WORK.

TRYING TO FIND WAY TO SECURE THE STAIRS.

WHEN I MET WITH FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS, AT THE TIME I THINK STILL TODAY, ADVOCATED SAID THERE WAS A CHOKE POINT WHERE IF WE JUST PUT SECURITY THERE, PEOPLE COULDN'T GET PAST THAT CHOKE POINT.

LET'S NOT WAIT FOR MANAGED ACCESS.

PUT A SECURITY GUARD OR POLICE OFFICER THERE RIGHT NOW.

HPD LOOKED ME IN THE EYE, NO WAY WE ARE ALLOWING POLICE OFFICER THERE.

NO BATHROOM.

NO SHELTER.

NO BACK UP.

NO WATER.

NOTHING THERE TO SUPPORT THIS OFFER.

THEY TOLD ME THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO SECURE THAT CHOKE POINT.

WITH POLICE.

THEY JUST BASICALLY REFUSED TO DO IT.

AT THAT POINT, I KNEW THAT MANAGED ACCESS PLAN WASN'T PRACTICAL.

YOU CAN SECURE THE STAIRS.

JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE HPD.

YOU CAN SECURE THE STAIRS WITHOUT THE CHECKPOINT, REQUIRES 6 DIFFERENT OFFICERS AT DIFFERENT AREAS WHERE PEOPLE SNEAK IN ON DIFFERENT RIDGES.

COST $12,000 A DAY FOR THOSE OFFICERS FOR 24 HOURS SURVEILLANCE.

AND SECURITY.

THAT IS JUST IT'S IMPRACTICAL.

IS THERE A WAY TO SECURITY STAIRS?

YES.

IS THERE A REASONABLE WAY TO SECURE THE STAIRS?

I DON'T THINK SO.

WITHOUT THAT MANAGED ACCESS CAN'T WORK.

>>Yunji: BRING YOU IN ON THIS.

WE KNOW THAT YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF EXPERIENCE HAVING ACCOMPLISHED WHAT YOUR GROUP DID IN EAST OAHU.

TELL US WHAT YOU THINK CAN BE LEARNED FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE AT KOKO CRATER?

>> OUR EXPERIENCE.

THE COMMUNITY WAS INVOLVED AS WELL.

WE DID HAVE SOME NAYSAYERS THAT DIDN'T LIKE SAME LIKE HAIKU, PEOPLE WERE COMING IN EARLY.

WHEN THE PARK GATES WERE CLOSED.

PARKING IN FRONT OF DRIVEWAYS, MAKING A LOT OF   NOISE WITH THEIR CARS.

AND EVERYTHING.

SO YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO GET THE CITY TO OPEN THE GATES EARLIER SO PEOPLE COULD COME IN EARLIER.

SOMETIMES MILITARY COMES IN THERE AND DOES THEIR EXERCISES.

PEOPLE WANT TO JUST GET IT DONE EARLY IN THE MORNING.

AND YOU KNOW, PEOPLE COME FOR SUNRISE.

I WOULD ALWAYS TRY TO LET PEOPLE KNOW, HEY, BE CONSIDERATE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD NOISE YOU'RE MAKING, BE AWARE OF WHERE YOU'RE PARKING, JUST DON'T DISTURB ANYONE OR JUST COME WHEN THE MAKE SURE THE GATES ARE OPEN, AND JUST BE RESPONSIBLE.

SO YOU KNOW, I WOULD POST A LOT ABOUT IT WITH THE SOCIAL MEDIA.

TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT THERE.

AND MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE THAT CONSIDERATION IN MIND OF RESIDENTS.

I CAN UNDERSTAND SO FRUSTRATING AND WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY LIKE COMING TO USE SOMEBODY'S HOSE OR DISTURBING ANYBODY.

OR LEAVING TRASH OR ANYTHING THAT YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING.

JUST WRONG.

>>Yunji: OF COURSE.

TALK ABOUT THAT.

EMAIL HERE.

WHAT IS THE ADVANTAGE OF KEEPING STAIRS WITH THE PRICE OF UPKEEP?

REPRESENTATIVE SCOT MATAYOSHI SAYING $12,000 A DAY TO MANAGE ALL OF THOSE ACCESS POINTS.

HOW CAN WE JUSTIFY THAT KIND OF COST?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WE THINK $12,000 IS VASTLY INFLATED ESTIMATE.

YOU NEED TO HAVE SIX POLICE OFFICERS.

NEED TO HAVE ONE TO MAKE ARRESTS.

AND DETECTION SYSTEMS.

HAVE SECURITY GUARDS.

CAN YOU HAVE CAMERAS.

AND YOU CAN PUT FENCES.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE STAIRS ARE ACTUALLY VERY NARROW STAIRCASE.

THAT GOES UP A VERY STEEP RIDGE.

>> CAN'T KANAKA MAOLI VERY DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.

FEW APPROACHES.

YOU COULD PUT BARRIERS THERE.

CAMERAS AND EMOTION DETECTERS VERY CHEAP.

INTRUDER APPROACHING YOU COULD ALERT HAVING ONE HPD OFFICER STATIONED BASE OF THE STAIRS.

THEY'LL KNOW IN REAL TIME PEOPLE ARE COMING.

AND THAT'S ALL YOU NEED.

IN FACT, I THINK REP SCOT MATAYOSHI IN 2021, HPD DID DO A STAKEOUT AND SIGNIFICANTLY BEFORE THAT, DOZENS OF PEOPLE GOING PER DAY, AFTER THEY STARTED ARRESTING PEOPLE AND CITING THEM, THE INTRUSIONS DROPPED TO JUST A HANDFUL.

TALKED TO RESIDENTS.

DOOR‑TO‑DOOR.

TRESPASSING STAYED DOWN.

MOST PEOPLE MANY PEOPLE WE TALKED TO ROUGHLY HALF OF THEM TELL US THERE'S LESS TRESPASSING THAN THERE USED TO BE.

NOT A PROBLEM WE WANT TO DO MORE.

WE ARE DOING MORE.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT.

BUT JUST HAVING MORE EFFECTIVE SECURITY BY HAVING SOME ENFORCEMENT, PEOPLE ARE ALREADY GOING BACK SWITCHING TO MOANALUA BECAUSE THE WORD IS OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, GOING TO GET CITED AND BUSTED.

AND SO IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

WE CAN SOLVE WITHOUT REMOVING THE STAIRS.

IF I HAD LEGAL ACCESS, BIGGER DENT BECAUSE WHEN THE STAIRS WERE OPEN, AS THEY WERE FOR DECADES, UNDER THE COULD HE GO GUARD, COAST GUARD.

COULD GO LEGALLY.

DON'T WANT TO BREAK THE LAW.

WANT TO GO IT IN THIS BEAUTIFUL PLACE.

PROVIDE LEGAL WAY.

NO TRESPASSING PEOPLE.

20,000 PEOPLE WOULD GO.

NO ISSUES.

>>Yunji: I WANT YOU TO RESPOND TO THAT AND BRING THIS EMAIL.

BRING REMOVING HAIKU STAIRS, ASSUMED PEOPLE WILL STOP HIKING THE PATH.

LIKELY STILL BE ROGUE HIKERS REMOVING STAIRS COULD POSSIBLY POSE A GREATER RISK TO HIKERS AND RESCUE PERSONNEL.

WHAT ABOUT THAT?

WILL TAKING STRUCTURE ITSELF DOWN, TAKE AWAY THIS RISK?

>> I THINK MOSTLY WILL.

ANYONE HIKED HAIKU STAIRS BEFORE, IT IS INCREDIBLY STEEP AT CERTAIN POINTS.

I DON'T THINK ANYONE EVEN FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS WOULD SAY THIS IS A VERY SAFE TRAIL.

IF WE TAKE OUT THE STAIRS, YES, COULD PEOPLE SCALE IT WITH CLIMBING EQUIPMENT?

OF COURSE.

SCALE ANY MOUNTAIN, PART OF THE KO'OLAU RANGE WITH CLIMBING EQUIPMENT.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD REASON FOR US TO TAKE DOWN THE VASTLY EASIER WAY FOR PEOPLE TO HIKE UP THIS WHAT IS AT TIMES SHEER ROCK FACE.

I DON'T BUY THAT.

ALSO, GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH FIRE DEPARTMENT TODAY.

THEY'VE MADE 57 RESCUES IN AND AROUND HAIKU STAIRS AND ASSOCIATED WITH HAIKU STAIRS SINCE 2008.

MANY OF THEM HAVE A DANGEROUS RESCUES.

NEEDED BY HELICOPTER AT THE COST OF ABOUT $2,500 AN HOUR.

COST RIGHT NOW IS ALREADY THERE.

THE RISK TO FIRST RESPONDERS IS ALREADY THERE.

WE WOULD MINIMIZE THAT BY TAKING DOWN THE STAIRS POTENTIALLY.

I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS HIS POINT ABOUT THE SECURITY AGAIN.

I KNOW WE KEEP COMING BACK TO THIS.

KEY PART OF WORKABLE MANAGED ACCESS PLAN.

AGAIN, IF WE COULD MAKE SECURITY WORK, THAT'S WHAT I WAS WORKING ON BACK IN 2020 WITH THE CALDWELL ADMINISTRATION.

I AGREE.

IF WE COULD MAKE EFFECTIVE SECURITY PLAN THAT WORKS, I THINK THAT WOULD BRING THE NEIGHBORHOOD A LOT OF RELIEF AND NEIGHBORS DON'T CARE ABOUT HAIKU STAIRS.

ITSELF.

DON'T WANT TO RIP IT DOWN JUST TO RIP IT DOWN.

THEY JUST WANT TO TAKE IT DOWN BECAUSE THAT'S THE EASIEST WAY THEY CAN SEE TO GET RELIEF.

AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT I SAID, $12,000 A DAY, THAT CAME FROM HPD.

ACTUALLY, THEY GENERATED THAT NUMBER BASED ON THE 2021 EXPERIMENT THEY DID WHERE THEY PUT SIX OFFICERS IN THE FIELD THEY SAID ONLY WAY THEY COULD MANAGE IT.

8 HOUR SHIFT.

CALCULATING THAT OUT, $12,000 PRETTY CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE.

IF YOU WANTED TO DO 24‑HOUR SECURITY.

AGAIN, WITH HIKERS SNEAKING IN AT 2:00 A.M.

IN THE MORNING, YOU WOULD REALLY NEED THAT ALL AROUND SECURITY.

ANOTHER POINT I WANTED TO MAKE, MAY NOT BE THAT HAIKU STAIRS FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS MAY NOT BE AWARE OF, HPD SHOWED ME A VIDEO OF THE TRUE CHOKE POINT.

THERE'S A LOWER ONE, FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS SHOWN ME IN THE PAST, HPD HAS FOUND SEVERAL OTHER TRAILS PRETTY MUCH GOING UP THE ROCK FACE THAT JOIN AT ABOUT TWICE THE HEIGHT OF H‑3.

NEED TO PUT A CHOKE POINT TO TRULY STOP THE HIKERS BECAUSE THEY COULD GET UP TO THE CHOKE POINT.

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH ON THE SHEAR DROP ON THE STAIRS ITSELF.

SO VERY DANGEROUS LOCATION.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND.

>> SO FOR EVERY RESCUE THAT HELICOPTER IS INVOLVED IN, YOU'RE LOOKING AT $15,000 FOR THE RESCUE.

HELICOPTERS WEEKLY, LIKE REPRESENTATIVE MATAYOSHI SAID, THE POLICE OFFICERS HAVE BEEN PRESENT.

IT DOESN'T REALLY DETER THEM.

IT'S LIKE A CHALLENGE.

HOW CAN WE AVOID THEM?

SO THEY GO THROUGH THE CULVERTS THAT ARE IN THE UPPER NEIGHBORHOOD.

THEY COME AT ALL HOURS OF THE DARKNESS.

THE POLICE OFFICERS WERE THERE IN THEIR MARKED CARS AND WE WOULD SEE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> HIKING.

LITERALLY WATCHING THE POLICE TO FIGURE OUT HOW THEY CAN MANEUVER SO THEY DON'T AREN'T FOUND.

THE BACK TRAIL I HAD A FRIEND WHO LIVED THERE, THEY HAD A POOL.

THEY COME HOME AND PEOPLE WOULD BE SWIMMING IN THE POOL.

THERE WAS, ON HAWAII NEWS NOW, WHERE A HIKER WAS TRYING TO GO THROUGH NEIGHBOR'S YARD.

GOT INJURED.

HE KEPT SAYING HOW HE CAME ALL THE WAY FROM COLORADO JUST TO HIKE THE STAIRS.

SO THAT HE WENT THROUGH SEVERAL STATE LINES WITH THE INTENT TO COMMIT A CRIME.

WHICH IS A FELON.

AND KEPT SAYING HE WOULD SUE.

RAY WAS ONE OF OUR FIRST ADVOCATES FROM THE UPPER COMMUNITY.

AND HE SINCE MOVED AS WELL AS OTHERS.

ONE RESIDENT MOVED BECAUSE SHE WAS ASSAULTED.

POLICE OFFICER SUBMITTED A PICTURE, THEY'VE BEEN ASSAULTED.

AND IT SHOWS THREE HIKERS AND HANDCUFFS WALKING DOWN WITH ALL OF THE POLICE BEHIND THEM.

SO POLICE OFFICERS, ESPECIALLY ONE, THEY'VE BEEN SECURITY GUARDS.

SIT IN THEIR CAR.

PEOPLE COME AND THEY TELL, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TRESPASSING.

THERE'S FINES.

YEAH, WE KNOW.

THE GUY WHO CAME ALL THE WAY FROM COLORADO, HE KNEW THERE WAS A THOUSAND DOLLARS FINE.

HE WAS WILLING TO PAY IT.

>>Yunji: WE'RE SEEING THESE IMAGES THAT YOU WERE REFERENCING THERE OF FOLKS CLEARLY DISREGARDING SIGNS AND FENCES.

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT A LOT OF BAD ACTORS.

>> VIEWER COMMENT HERE.

HIKERS DO NOT ENHANCE THE ENVIRONMENT OF MANY PLACES THEY HAVE BEEN REMOVE THESE TYPES OF ELEMENTS.

STAIRS NEED TO BE REMOVED.

WHAT IS THE CASE FOR HIKING?

WE'RE HEARING ABOUT PEOPLE OBVIOUSLY VERY DISRESPECTFUL.

IS THERE A CASE THIS IS A RESOURCE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY.

>> THE ANSWER CAN'T ALWAYS BE SHUT IT DOWN.

CLOSE IT DOWN.

WE HAVE TO HAVE SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE.

RESOLUTION THAT EVERYONE WILL BE HAPPY WITH.

LIKE I HAD SAID, I DON'T CONDONE ANY TRESPASSING, BAD BEHAVIOR OF HIKERS.

ADVOCATE OF RESPECTING LAND AND OTHER PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WANT TO BE OUTSIDE.

WHY NOT ENJOY OUR BEAUTIFUL ISLAND.

OF THE KO'OLAUS OR WAIANAES OR ANY, ANY AREA.

BEING OUTDOORS PEOPLE LOVE BEING OUTDOORS.

YOU KNOW, KOKO CRATER, IT WASN'T INTENDED FOR IT TO BE A HIKING MOUNTAIN.

BUT THAT'S WHAT IT'S BECOME.

AND WE HAD TO HAVE MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY COULD COME TO AN AGREEMENT, STILL GOING TO BE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE IFFY ABOUT IT, BUT YOU KNOW, SO THAT IN THIS CASE WE WANTED TO MAKE IT SAFE AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY CAN ENJOY.

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT ENJOY IT.

A LOT OF CARDIO.

>>Yunji: WE'RE SEEING PICTURES OF WORK THAT YOU'RE GROUP THERE DID RIGHT THERE.

I WANT TO GO TO ANOTHER IMAGE THAT SEAN SHARED WITH US.

JUST SO THAT WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE.

GRAPHIC OF WHAT COULD BE SOME ACCESS POINTS.

IF WE COULD BRING THAT UP.

SEAN IF YOU COULD WALK US THROUGH.

WHAT THESE POTENTIAL ACCESS ROUTES.

SO WHAT ARE WE LOOKING AT HERE?

>> RIGHT.

YOU'RE LOOK AT HERE, AERIAL VIEW.

AND WHERE THE STAIRS ACTUALLY LOCATED, START.

IS RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM LEFT OF THIS MAP.

RIGHT ABOVE H‑3.

IT'S ABOUT THIRD OF A MILE FROM THE CLOSEST HOUSE OF UP THE SLOPE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAJOR FREEWAY.

SO PEOPLE HAVE THIS IDEA YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH SOMEONE'S BACKYARD TO GET TO THIS HIKING TRAIL.

THAT IS TRUE WITH SOME OTHER TRAILS.

THIS IS ONE WHERE IN FACT ROADS BOTH SIDES RED ARROW IT'S USED TO GO, I DID WHEN I WAS HIGH SCHOOL.

I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH STAIRS WERE LEGAL, I COULD DRIVE RIGHT INTO THE COAST GUARD BASE ON THAT ROAD, FOLLOWING RED ARROW.

PARK FAR AWAY FROM ANYONE'S HOUSE WALK UP TO THE STAIRS.

THERE WAS A LIABILITY WAIVER AND THAT WAS IT.

THERE WAS NO PROBLEMS.

WORKED REALLY WELL.

BLUE LINE AT THE BOTTOM, A ROAD FOLLOWING RIGHT UNDERNEATH H‑3.

THE ROAD THEY BUILT IN ORDER TO CONSTRUCT H‑3.

UP ON VIADUCT UP ON STILTS.

THERE'S ANOTHER ROAD THAT GOES RIGHT PAST THE NEIGHBORHOOD FAR AWAY, NO ONE WOULD SEE PEOPLE ON THAT ROAD BECAUSE IT'S FURTHER UP THE HILL.

KIND OF, SURROUNDED BY EMPTY PUBLIC LAND.

NO HOUSES.

IT'S PUBLIC UNUSED LAND.

SO THERE'S PLENTY OF WAYS TO GET TO THE STAIRS.

PROVIDE LEGAL ACCESS, NO ISSUES WITH TRESPASSING.

>>Yunji: WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THIS, WHERE EXACTLY WOULD YOU SAY WOULD BE THE BEST ROUTE TO HAVE LEAST IMPACT THAT YOU THINK COULD BE SAFELY SECURED IN THIS, WHICH COLOR ROUTE AM I LOOKING AT?

THE WHITE?

BLUE TO THE WHITE?

>> ALL POSSIBILITIES.

ONE WE ARE CURRENTLY, SUBMITTED A PLAN TO THE MAYOR, PARTLY TO DO WITH LANDOWNER ACCESS, BEST FINAL SOLUTION WOULD BE EITHER RED ARROW OR THE BLUE WHITE THAT CONNECTS TO LIKELIKE OR RED ARROW GOES TO COAST GUARD OLD HAIKU ROAD.

LANDOWNERS WILLING TO MAKE ACCESS THAT'S THE LIGHT ORANGE ARROW.

AND THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE SECTION OF THE ROAD THAT GOES EXTENSION OF THE MAIN VALLEY ROAD.

GOES OUTSIDE THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

BIG WALL BETWEEN ANYONE'S YARD.

NO ONE WOULD SEE PEOPLE DRIVINGING THAT'S THE ONE RIGHT HERE.

PEOPLE WILLING TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT.

UNDER THE CALDWELL ADMINISTRATION, 2020, THEY HAD THESE DRAFT AGREEMENTS IN PLACE.

>>Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE MATAYOSHI, YOU'VE REFERENCED SEVERAL TIMES YOU WORKED ON THAT WITH THE CALDWELL ADMINISTRATION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE ACCESS POTENTIAL ACCESS ROUTES.

AS SEAN HAS EXPLAINED TO US TODAY, WHAT DO YOU SEE.

>> IT'S BEEN A LITTLE WHILE.

BUT WHEN I WAS WORKING WITH THE CALDWELL ADMINISTRATION, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WAS ACCESS.

I THINK THE FEWEST NUMBER OF LANDOWNERS YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH WERE THREE.

D.O.T., I KNOW KAMEHAMEHA SCHOOLS WAS INVOLVED IN SOME OF THESE ACCESS ROUTES.

WE JUST COULDN'T GET THE DHHL WAS ANOTHER.

COULDN'T GET THE LANDOWNER TO ALL AGREE TO ALLOW ACCESS.

>> GOT PERMISSION FROM ALL OF THEM.

>> THEY DIDN'T.

ABSOLUTELY DID NOT.

COUNCILMEMBER KIA'AINA CHECKED.

THEY DIDN'T.

THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN DRAFT AGREEMENTS WHERE YOU LITERALLY HAVE AGREEMENT ON PAPER THAT WASN'T AGREED TO YET.

BUT THERE WAS NO AGREEMENT.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS BECAUSE AGAIN, BACK THEN, I WAS TRYING TO MAKE THIS WORK.

TOLD THE COMMUNITY, MAKE GOOD FAITH ACCESS RIGHT NOW TO MAKE MANAGED ACCESS WORKS.

IF WORKED, GOOD FOR EVERYBODY.

GOOD FOR US.

GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY.

GOOD FOR FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS.

LOOKING AT THOSE POTENTIAL PATHWAYS, THEY'RE SIMPLY WAS NOT AGREEMENT WITH ALL OF THE LANDOWNERS NEEDED IN ORDER TO GET HIKERS FROM PUBLIC ACCESS ROAD TO THE BASE OF THE STAIRS.

>> LANDLOCKED.

MULTIPLE LANDOWNERS.

AND IN OVER 40 YEARS, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT.

NO ONE WANTS LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY.

>>Yunji: WHAT ABOUT THAT LIABILITY QUESTION?

THIS IS DANGEROUS.

AND SIGNING A WAIVER ENOUGH?

>> IN FACT, STAIRS IF YOU HAVE A CLOSE UP PICTURES OF THE STAIRS.

GREAT FOR VIEWERS TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

STAIRCASE THAT HAS EVEN, NO SLIP STEPS WITH HANDRAILS ON BOTH SIDES.

TO GRIP.

AND IT'S BEEN AROUND FOR 80 YEARS.

THERE'S NEVER BEEN AN ACCIDENTAL DEATH COAST GUARD ON THE STAIRS, WHEN THE COAST GUARD HAD IT, WHEN IT WAS LEGAL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A CLOSER UP VIEW.

ABOUT THE SAFEST WAY YOU COULD GO UP A MOUNTAIN.

THE THERE'S NEVER BEEN ACCIDENTAL DEATH.

NEVER BEEN AN LAWSUIT.

CITY CONFIRMED.

THAT'S A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.

FROM THE CITY ITSELF SAYING NO LAWSUITS.

NO ACCIDENTAL DEATHS.

COAST GUARD 20,000 PEOPLE A YEAR, CLIMBED THOSE STAIRS.

NO RESCUES.

NO SERIOUS INJURIES.

>> NO LAWSUIT.

>>Yunji: YOU'RE SAYING THAT HELICOPTERS ARE FLYING OVER AT REGULAR CLIP.

CLEARLY, THERE IS SOMEWHAT.

>> SPEAK TO THAT.

>> 20,000.

IT IS NOW, IT WAS A MILLION.

NO LONGER 20,000.

ACCESSING.

>>Yunji: A MILLION PEOPLE, ON WHAT, EVERY YEAR?

>> YES.

>>Yunji: WOW.

>> ACCORDING TO THE BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY, EIS, IT WILL COST 4 MILLION ANNUALLY TO MAINTAIN.

>> CAN I SPEAK TO THAT?

WE USED TO MAINTAIN THE STAIRS FOR FREE.

FOR DECADES.

OUR GROUP HAD PERMISSION FROM THE CITY, VOLUNTEERS DID WORK TRIPS.

REPAIR THE STAIRS.

WE WOULD REMOVE INVASIVE SPECIES.

TAKE CARE OF NATIVE PLANTS HAUL OUT TRASH.

OF COURSE WE HAVE VOLUNTEERS READY TO DO THAT.

CIVIL ENGINEERS, STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS.

WHERE WE HAVE THE EXPERTISE.

WOULDN'T COST THE CITY.

SECURITY 24‑7.

HER GROUP RAISED, TELL US.

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE I THINK ON BALANCE, IT'S NOT QUITE THE SAME.

SCALE IS OBVIOUSLY MUCH LARGER.

TELL US WHAT YOU'RE ABLE TO DO.

>> MUCH WORSE SHAPE.

MUCH WORSE.

>> YEAH.

EROSION WAS JUST, IT WAS REALLY BAD.

BUT WE DID, WE JUST PUT IT OUT THERE AND WE GOT OUR INITIAL FUNDING WAS FROM THE CITY.

WE GOT ALL THESE DONORS FROM PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD FROM OUR LOCAL COMMUNITY AND AROUND THE WORLD, AND WE RAISED ALMOST $300,000 ON OUR OWN.

WE BIG DONORS LIKE C PB AND HOME DEPOT AND WAL‑MART.

INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES, LIKE A THOUSAND HERE, A THOUSAND THERE, 20,000, 25,000, 30,000, AND THAT HELPED US MAINTAIN AND KEEP EVERYTHING GOING.

ALL OF OUR INSURANCE FOR OUR BOARD AND VOLUNTEERS.

>> AND ANY OTHER SUPPLIES THAT WE NEEDED TO MAINTAIN AND FIX IT'S STAIRS.

HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS.

EVERY WEEKEND.

EVERY DAY, THAT JUST THEY JUST WANT TO HELP.

THEY WANT TO BE A PART OF IT.

THINK WANT TO BE A PART OF THE SUCCESS.

AND CONTINUE, KEEPING OUR STAIRS OPEN.

>>Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN.

INOUYE YOU HAVE SOME DATA TO SHARE WITH US.

WOULD LIKE YOU TO RESPOND.

UNDER MANAGED ACCESS, WOULDN'T IT RESPONSIBILITY OF VENDOR TO PAY FOR PRIVATE SECURITY, NOT HPD?

OR WHAT SEAN IS TALKING ABOUT, WHERE YOU HAVE BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERS WHO HELP OUT WOULD THAT NECESSARILY BE ENOUGH?

WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS THERE?

>> I MEAN, MY CONCERN IS THAT ANY MANAGED ACCESS PLAN WOULD HE REQUIRE ADEQUATE LEVEL OF SECURITY.

TALKING TO HPD, THEY THOUGHT, I'M NOT MAKING UP NUMBERS HERE, I ASKED HPD WHAT THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD TAKE TO SECURE THE STAIRS.

AND THEY SAID IT WOULD TAKE $12,000 A DAY.

LOW LEVEL OFFICERS, COULD GO UP FOR MORE SENIOR OFFICERS.

SO SHORT STAFFED IN HPD ALREADY, THEY WOULD HAVE A REALLY DIFFICULT TIME GETTING ENOUGH WAS OFFICERS TO VOLUNTARILY TAKE ON.

I'M AFRAID MANAGED ACCESS PLAN GOES THROUGH DOESN'T PROVIDE ADEQUATE SECURITY.

WORST CASE SCENARIO.

WE NEED ADEQUATE SECURITY WHAT I THINK IT TAKES AND HPD THINK IT TAKES ABOUT $12,000 A DAY FOR THE OFFICERS.

I DO WANT TO ADDRESS FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS.

THEY CONTINUE TO BRING UP THAT NO ONE BEEN HURT ON THE STAIRCASE.

IT'S SO SAFE.

I'VE GOT TO DISAGREE THERE.

I KNOW WE CALLED HAIKU STAIRS.

SOMETIMES I THINK OF IT MORE HAIKU LADDER.

THIS IS PRINTOUT OF THE 57 RESCUES JUST SINCE 2008.

HIGH ANGLE RESCUES, HFD HAS TOLD ME THAT ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS ESPECIALLY FOR THE FIRST RESPONDERS.

ALSO, JUST WANT TO READ A BIT OF EXCERPT FROM THE LAWSUIT THAT WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FILED, FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS OWN WORDS DESCRIBING THIS INCREDIBLY SAFE TRAIL.

80‑YEAR‑OLD STAIRCASE PERCHED TOP STEEP WIND‑SWEPT RIDGE SUPPOSED TO TORRENTIAL DOWNPOURS UNSTABLE TERRAIN PRONE TO LANDSLIDES.

PARAGRAPH 67 OF THEIR LAWSUIT DESCRIBING HAIKU STAIRS.

THAT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE A SAFE HIKE.

, I HAVE TO RESPOND TO THAT.

SO POINT IS AND YOU ASKED THE QUESTION EARLIER ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE CLIMB.

SPEAK TO THIS.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO UP THERE.

ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

PEOPLE NOT GOING TO BE REMOVING SATELLITE AT THE TOP.

LEAVING LANDING SECTIONS.

>> SIGNIFICANT SECTIONS WHAT WAS THE STAIRWAY.

EVEN IF THEY'RE GONE, PEOPLE WANT TO SEE THE SPOT.

MOST OF ALL, THEY WILL WANT TO SEE THE VIEW AT THE TOP.

AND THE WAY THEY'RE GOING TO GET THERE IS EITHER BY ATTACHING ROPES AS THEY USED TO DO WHEN THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THE STAIRS WERE IN REALLY IN BAD DISREPAIR, PEOPLE WANDERED AROUND THAT, GONE UP THE BACK WAY.

WHERE THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CLIMBING THAT HILL GOING FROM THE BACK SIDE FROM MOANALUA, AND SO THE ILLUSION MADE TO ALL OF THESE RESCUES DIG INTO THE DATA, WE'VE DONE THIS, DID A SEARCH MEDIA REPORTER HPD DATA CIVIL BEAT AND KHON, STORY OF ACTUAL DETAILED GRAPHIC, THESE ARE ALL RESCUED CAUSED BY THE STAIR, IN FACT, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THESE RESCUES ON THE MOANALUA SIDE WHY IS THAT?

BECAUSE MOANALUA HAS NO STAIRS.

AND NO HANDRAILS.

IT'S A MUCH LONGER, MORE DANGEROUS TRAIL.

WITHOUT, VERY EASY TO GET LOST.

PARTICULARLY IN THE CLOUDS OR RAIN.

TURNS INTO MUDSLIDE.

MASSIVE EROSION.

SO CLOSED A SAFE WAY TO GO UP MOUNTAIN AND FORCED PEOPLE ON DANGEROUS THING WHERE THERE HAS BEEN ONE DEATH.

PEOPLE AREN'T FORCED.

>> WELL, PEOPLE WANT TO GO.

AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO, YOU CAN'T UNRING THE BELL.

VIEWS WHAT YOU CAN SEE ON THAT STAIRCASE ARE CIRCULATING ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

PEOPLE ARE ALL GOING TO KEEP COMING.

WE CAN EITHER MANAGED THIS DEMAND RESPONSIBLY AND MANAGE RESOURCE, AND MAKE SURE WE CHANNEL SAFE DIRECTION, DOESN'T DISTURB RESIDENTS.

NOT GOING TO GO UP IN A STORM.

STAIRS ARE MAINTAINED LANDSLIDES.

WE CAN MANAGE.

CLOSED SAFEST WAY.

RESULT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE A DAY GOING UP THE BACK WAY.

HUNDREDS RESCUES ARE HAPPENING.

>> ACCORDING TO THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ITSELF, YOU CAN DISAGREE.

>> ASK THEM WHERE.

>> YOU CAN CALL HFD YOURSELF.

GET THE SAME ANSWER BUT.

>> WITH THE STAIRS.

>> TOOK THEM TWO DAYS TO MINE OUT ALL OF THIS DATA.

THERE WERE SO MANY.

57 IS THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S NUMBERS.

I FEEL LIKE YOU THINK I'M MAKING THIS UP.

>> NO, I THINK YOU'RE NOT SEPARATING.

YOU ASKED THEM, RESCUES.

>> YOU DIDN'T DO ANY SEPARATING AT ALL.

FIRE DEPARTMENT.

>> COMMONLY REPORTED, EVERY TIME THERE'S A RESCUE, SOMEBODY CLIMBED UP WE DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GOT THERE.

JUMPED OFF THE TOP AND HURT THEIR KNEE.

THAT'S ASSOCIATED WAS A RESCUE HAIKU STAIRS.

MOST PEOPLE GOING UP ARE GOING UP THE BACK WAY.

>> WHEN THE REPORTS GO INTO DETAILS, ALMOST ALWAYS MOANALUA OR OCCASIONALLY HAVE RESCUES LOOKED AT THE LAST 2 YEAR MEDIA REPORTS.

12 MOANALUA.

3 KANEOHE SIDE.

NONE PEOPLE GOT IN TROUBLE CLIMBING STAIRS.

TWO OF THEM BUSH WHACKING AT NIGHT TRYING TO GET TO THE BASE OF THE STAIRS.

WOULDN'T HAVE IF PEOPLE HAD A LEGAL WAY TO GO IN DELIGHT.

LIKEWISE OTHER ONE JUMPED OFF THE TOP.

REPORTED AS ANOTHER RESCUE ON THE STAIRS.

I ONLY KNOW OF ONE RESCUE EVER THAT TOOK PLACE WHEN SOMEONE GOT IN TROUBLE CLIMBS STAIRS.

2015.

>> CLIMBED DURING THE STORM.

WHICH OF COURSE WE WOULDN'T LET HAPPEN.

WOULD MONITOR THE WEATHER UNDER MANAGED ACCESS.

I THINK IT'S VERY DISINGENUOUS TO SEE STAIRS CAUSING RESCUES.

CLOSING STAIRS AND FORCING PEOPLE TO UNSAFE BEHAVIORS.

STAIRS ARE CLOSED.

WE UNDERSTAND THE STAIRS ARE CLOSED.

WHEN THEY WERE OPEN, ZERO RESCUES UNDER THE COAST GUARD.

THAT'S THE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE.

>>Yunji: LETS BRING IN SOME MORE VIEWER QUESTIONS.

LOVE FOR YOU TO RESPOND.

MANAGED ACCESS DOES NOT PROTECT FIRST RESPONDER.

SAME THING HAPPENS THE KOKO CRATER.

WHO PAYS FOR THEIR RESCUES?

TAXPAYORS AND MOST OF THE HIKERS AREN'T RESIDENTS.

COSTS THEM NOTHING.

WHAT ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT?

>> YES.

SO WHEN HFD HAD A PRESS CONFERENCE AND THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT WHO IS PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS.

IT'S ALREADY BUDGETED THAT THIS IS THEIR JOB.

THIS IS WHAT THEY DO.

OF COURSE WE DON'T WANT ANYBODY NEEDING RESCUES BUT OF COURSE, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS.

WITH THERE ARE MOUNTAINS TO BE CLIMBED.

AND I DON'T THINK THAT I MEAN, IT IS IN THE BUDGET THAT THIS THEY GO ON RESCUE SOMEONE.

BUT IF PEOPLE GET INTO THE AMBULANCE, THAT'S WHEN THE PATIENT IS BILLED.

SO I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING WHERE VISITORS AND TOURISTS WHO DO SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULDN'T BE DOING OR THEY NEED HELP, THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF FEE THAT THEY DO HAVE TO PAY FOR.

BECAUSE IT SHOULDN'T BE, ON THE TAXPAYORS OF HAWAII WHO HAVE TO BE BROUGHT UPON, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE HIKING AND THINK SHOULD BE, SHOULD KNOW THEIR LIMITS AND THEY SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE A STEP BACK AND NOT DO IT.

>>Yunji: GET TO THIS ONE.

BARBARA IN KAILUA.

I THINK THIS PERSON IS ECHOING FRUSTRATION THAT I THINK A LOT OF RESIDENTS, THAT YOU ARE REPRESENTING TONIGHT.

FEEL.

IT'S BEEN SOME TIME SINCE DECIDED TO REMOVE THE STAIRS.

>> WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG FOR EVERYONE TO STOP SCREWING AROUND AND REMOVE THE STAIRS?

YOU SAID THAT LIVED THERE FOR THREE DECADES WHAT IS THAT EXPERIENCE LIKE YEAR AFTER YEAR TO HAVE THIS IN YOUR COMMUNITY?

WE'RE FRUSTRATED.

OFFERED OVER A DECADE, TAKE DOWN THE STAIRS FOR FREE.

BUT IT JUST CONTINUES.

WE FOLLOW THE PROCESS FOR YEARS.

WE WAITED FOR THE EIS.

IT CAME OUT.

AND THEIR NUMBER ONE RECOMMENDATION IS TO REMOVE IT.

SECOND RECOMMENDATION WAS SEND IT THROUGH ALTERNATE ROUTE, WHICH WOULD BE GOING UP KEAHALO ROAD, THROUGH POOKELA.

ANCHOR CHURCH THERE.

ALL RIGHT, AT THAT TAKES US OUT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

BUT THOSE LANDOWNERS AND RESIDENTS DON'T WANT TO GOING THROUGH THERE.

WE'RE JUST TRANSFERRING OUR SITUATION TO OUR ADJOINING COMMUNITY.

THERE'S REALLY NO RESPONSE AND WITH THE EIS COMING OUT, WE THOUGHT FINALLY, NOW, WE'RE AT A LAWSUIT BY THE SAME PEOPLE WHO HAVE CONTINUED ON AND ON, NONE OF THEM RESIDE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

COMPARING KOKO HEAD TO HAIKU STAIRS COMPARING TO HAIKU STAIRS APPLES TO ORANGES.

SINGLE PERSON DESCENT.

ONE PERSON TO FIT THROUGH, NOT TO HOLD THE KIND OF PUBLIC TRAFFIC THAT IS ANTICIPATED AND HAS TRAVELED THERE.

KOKO HEAD IS A SLOPE.

THERE'S PARKING GALORE BECAUSE IT'S AT A PARK.

YOU HAVE YOUR RESTROOM FACILITIES WHERE THERE IS NONE.

AT ONE POINT, COMMUNITY GETS IMPOSED WITH ALL OF THE INITIALLY PEOPLE COMING AND PARKING OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, WE HAVE 242 HOMES WITHIN OUR SUBDIVISION.

SO PARKING WAS BECOMING A PREMIUM AND THE RESPONSE WAS, LET'S LIMIT HOUSEHOLD PARKING.

ONLY FOUR STALLS PER HOUSEHOLD.

AND INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING PEOPLE COMING IN AND PARKING IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND NOW OUR SUBDIVISION WAS BUILT AS A MULTIGENERAL, MULTIGENERATIONAL COMMUNITY, IT WAS THE ONE OF THE LAST AFFORDABLE HOMES CHAMPIONED BY THEN GOVERNOR WAIHEE AND IT WAS A LOTTERY.

IT WAS MEANT INTENDED FOR KUPUNA FOR YOUNG FAMILIES, FOR DISPLACED FAMILIES AND THOSE WITH HANDICAPPED MEMBERS.

THERE WAS A LOTTERY.

YOU GOT SELECTED.

SO OUR YOUNG FAMILIES OF FIVE WERE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ONE OF THOSE.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO BRING IN STOP MORE QUESTIONS HERE.

AND SEAN, IF YOU COULD ADDRESS THIS.

GRANT OF HILO WANTS TO KNOW, CAN THE FRIEND OF HAIKU STAIRS TAKE ON MANAGEMENT OR INSURANCE FOR HIKERS ON THE HIKE.

AND THERE'S A COMMENT HERE FROM BETH, STRUCK ME BECAUSE YOU TALKED ABOUT BEING ABLE TO TRAVERSE THE STAIRS WHEN THE COAST GUARD WAS MANAGING IT.

WE SHOULDN'T BE CASUALLY REMOVING ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC IN THE WORLD BEFORE GIVING MANAGED ACCESS A CHANCE.

MANAGEMENT UNDER THE COAST GUARD WORKED.

FROM BETH.

FIRST GO TO GRANT'S QUESTION.

CAN YOU AFFORD, CAN YOUR GROUP AFFORD TO TAKE ON THIS PROJECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AS I EXPLAINED WE EXERCISE STEWARDSHIP FOR DECADES OVER THE STAIRS.

MAINTAINED, REPAIRED.

NO SHORTAGE OF VOLUNTEERS.

EXPERIENCE SHOWS MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WANT TO KEEP THE STAIRS.

THAT'S INDEPENDENT POLL THAT SURVEYED PEOPLE OAHU WIDE AND WINDWARD DISTRICT AND ACTUALLY NATIVE HAWAIIAN COMMUNITY.

BOTH ALL THREE CASES, GROUPS WE SAMPLED GOT STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT MAJORITY PEOPLE WANT TO SAVE THE STAIRS.

>> SO MANY PEOPLE CLIMBED THEM.

OPEN FOR DECADES.

BOY SCOUTS USED TO GO UP THERE.

THE NATIVE HAWAIIAN GATHERERS.

ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE USED IT.

>> NOT JUST HIKERS.

EDUCATORS WENT THERE.

>> TREASURED, ICONIC.

FUNDING WE COULD GET.

HISTORIC.

EASY TO MAINTAIN THE STAIRS.

READY WHEN THE CALDWELL ADMINISTRATION WANTED TO REOPEN THEM.

PUT OUT REQUEST WHO IS UP FOR MANAGING STAIRS?

WE PUT OUR NAME FORWARD.

NOT JUST US.

BUT MAJOR TOUR OPERATORS ROBERTS HAWAII, KUALOA RANCH, OTHER NONPROFITS, 808 CLEAN‑UP.

NO SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A RAIL MAINTAINING RESOURCE.

SECURITY PLAN, IT'S GOING TO WORK, WE HAVE A DISAGREEMENT.

WHY NOT TRY?

GIVE MANAGED ACCESS A TRY.

WORKED UNDER THE COAST GUARD.

DO IT AGAIN PILOT PLAN.

RATHER THAN RUSHING IT AND SPENDING $4.3 MILLION LATEST ESTIMATE IN THE BUDGET.

KEEPS GOING UP EVERY YEAR.

DOUBLES AGAIN.

SO RATHER THAN SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TAXPAYOR REALLY EXPENSIVE HUGELY DESTRUCTIVE, TRY MANAGED ACCESS TO SEE IF IT COULD WORK.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU.

I THINK THAT I THINK THAT IF WE COULD FIND A MANAGED ACCESS PLAN.

THAT WORKED, I WOULD BE WILLING TO TRY IT.

IF WE COULD FIND A MANAGED ACCESS PLAN THAT WAS REASONABLE AND AGAIN, PROVIDED SECURITY THAT WOULD PROTECT THE COMMUNITY, I THINK THE COMMUNITY WOULD BE BEHIND IT.

THE PROBLEM IS FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 35 YEARS.

AND THIS IS THE PLAN THAT CAME UP WITH.

IT'S SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK.

DOESN'T PROVIDE ADEQUATE SECURITY TO PROTECT THE RESIDENTS.

>> THERE'S BEEN SOME DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW, YES, IT WORKED BACK IN THE COAST GUARD DAYS.

THAT WAS PREINTERNET.

NOW, WE HAVE SO MANY WEB PAGES SHOWING ALL, YOU SAW THE MAMMOGRAM OF ALL THE ARROWS TO GET TO JUST THE BASE OF STAIRS.

SO MANY OTHER WAYS TO GET THROUGH THAT.

ALL OVER THE INTERNET.

SO FOR YOU, THAT WITH THE AND ADVENT OF INTERNET.

KNOWLEDGE IS OUT THERE TO SNEAK ON TO THE STAIRS AND IT'S BECOME UNCONTAINABLE.

BACK IN THE DAY WITH THE COAST GUARD, YES, THERE WAS A ROAD YOU DROVE DROVE UP.

PARKED.

>> SIGN A WAIVER.

AGAIN ACCESS POINTS THOUSAND OF FEET UP, TWICE THE OF H‑3 HPD FOUND SHOWED ME VIDEOS UP.

COULDN'T PRACTICAL TO DO MANAGED ACCESS.

BACK IN THE COAST GUARD DAYS?

POSSIBLY.

CAN WE DO IT NOW WITH THE KIND OF SECURITY PLAN PROPOSED.

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

NOT WITH ANY KIND OF REASONABLE BUDGET.

I DO BELIEVE THAT YOU FOLKS COULD MAINTAIN THE STAIRS ITSELF.

PHYSICAL STAIRS ITSELF.

I THINK YOU GOT HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB OF THAT.

SIMILAR TO KOKO CRATER.

HAVE DONE GOOD WORK.

IN ACTUALLY PRESERVING THE PHYSICAL STAIRS.

THE SECURITY THAT WE'RE DISAGREEING ABOUT.

>> WORKING ON SECURITY NOW.

SECURITY NEIGHBORHOOD GROUP.

BEEN MEETING EVERY SIX WEEKS.

UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE KANEOHE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD.

WE HAVE FIXED FENCES.

PUT UP SIGNS.

TRIED TO IDENTIFY CITY SOME CHOKE POINTS THAT CULVERT THAT LORI MENTIONED.

BROUGHT TO THE CITY'S ATTENTION, WHY DON'T YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS?

UNFORTUNATELY, CITY HASN'T RESPONDED AND ACTED ON THAT INFORMATION.

BUT THERE'S A LOT WE CAN DO EVEN WITHOUT REOPENING THE STAIRS TO IMPROVE SECURITY AND DEMONSTRATE DEMONSTRATED IN 2021.

STOP THE TRESPASSING, HAVE VIABILITY SECURITY.

LET US HAVE A CHANCE, IF WE HAD COOPERATION AND PAUSE ON THE REMOVAL EFFORT WHILE THE ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW IS GOING TO HAPPEN SOME YEAR ANYWAY.

WHY NOT USE THIS TIME TO SEE IF WE CAN'T MAKE A DENT TO SECURITY.

>>Yunji: SEAN SPOKE ABOUT VOLUNTEERS.

VIEWER QUESTION HERE, WHAT IS THE GUARANTEE THAT VOLUNTEERS WILL SHOW UP TO HELP MANAGED EVERY DAY 24‑7?

WILL THAT ACTUALLY WORK?

YOU'VE HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH VOLUNTEERS.

DO YOU THINK THAT GIVEN THE SCALE OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, VOLUNTEERS ARE REASONABLE SOLUTION?

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT 24‑7 VOLUNTEERS.

BUT WE WERE NEVER SHORT FOR OUR STAIRS, NEVER SHORT FOR ON VOLUNTEERS.

I MEAN, PEOPLE WOULD BE CONSTANTLY ASKING US WHEN CAN WE HELP.

STILL TO THIS DAY, EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T HAVE MUCH WORK, MAINTAINING, BUT THEY STILL WANT TO HELP.

PEOPLE WILL COME, EVEN IF IT'S LIKE A ONE‑TIME VISIT, PEOPLE ARE STILL HELPING.

VOLUNTEERING.

SO I DON'T THINK BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BIGGER PROJECT, I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE A SHORTAGE OF VOLUNTEERS ON THEIR STAIRS.

LIKE SOMETIMES FOR US, WE HAD TOO MANY.

LIKE IT WAS LIKE HARD TO GIVE THEM JOBS.

TO DO.

>>Yunji: COMMENT HERE.

>> QUESTION HERE, THAT I LOVE FOR YOU TO TAKE.

JOHN FROM THE WEST SIDE.

SAYING, WHY DO WE NEED TO SPEND MILLIONS TO REMOVE THE ENTIRE STAIRS, NOT JUST REMOVE THE FIRST 30 OR 40 PEOPLE SO PEOPLE CAN'T ACCESS THEM.

HOW FAR UP DO YOU THINK THE REMOVAL NEEDS TO GO TO BE EFFECTIVE?

>> WE SUGGESTED THAT AS AN ALTERNATIVE, REMOVE THE BOTTOM PART.

PEOPLE CAN'T ACCESS OR DESCEND FROM IT.

BUT LIKE SEVERAL OF THEM HAVE MENTIONED IN THE PAST, PEOPLE JUST PUT ROPES AND THEY USE ROPES TO CLIMB.

SO IT'S STILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THE ACCESS ISSUE OF IT.

AND LIKE REPRESENTATIVE SAID SO MANY POINTS OF ACCESS.

REALLY, IF PEOPLE ARE CHARGED, GOING TO LOOK OR ALTERNATIVE ACCESSES TO AVOID HAVING TO PAY FOR IT.

>> >>Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE, I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW, DO YOU THINK THAT THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE HAS TO BE REMOVED OR IS THERE A LEVEL AT WHICH THAT WOULD BE DISCOURAGING ENOUGH?

GIVEN WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA AND ALL OF THESE ACCESS POINTS BEING MAPPED OUT.

CONCERN WOULD BE EVEN IF IT YOU TAKE OUT A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE STRUCTURE, PEOPLE WILL JUST COME THROUGH IN OTHER WAYS.

>> I MEAN I THINK IT'S ALL OR NOTHING.

SEEN THE CHOKE POINT.

DOUBLED HEIGHT OF THE H‑3 UP THERE.

ACCESS POINTS GO WAY, WAY UP.

AND I THINK LEAVING PART OF STAIRS INTACT CREATES KIND OF ATTRACTIVE NUISANCE.

TO THE STAIRS START, BOTH OF US WOULD PROBABLY AGREE THAT'S A BAD IDEA.

>> I WOULD ADD YOU SAY DOUBLE HEIGHT OF H‑3, H‑3 IS NOT VERY HIGH.

STAIRS GO UP 3,000 FEET VERTICAL.

ALMOST 3,000.

2,300 FEET.

>> 2,800.

>> THAT'S THE SUMMIT.

IT'S A VERY LONG STAIRCASE.

AND MOST PEOPLE, YEAH, THEY MAY SNEAK ON TO THE STAIRS COVER OF DARKNESS.

THEY WANT TO BE THERE TO WATCH THE SUNRISE, TAKE SELFIE IN DAYLIGHT.

WHEN THEY GO UP, GOT TO GO DOWN.

NO OTHER WAY.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE ON THE STAIRS IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WITH NOWHERE TO HIDE.

SO TO TALK ABOUT SECURITY NEED FOR 24‑7, YES, WE WOULD HAVE SECURITY GUARDS.

HAD FENCES.

WOULD HAVE CAMERAS MONITORING 24‑7.

BUT THE BULK OF THE ENFORCEMENT IS GOING TO BE DURING DAYLIGHT.

AND THAT IS IF YOU HAD ONE HPD OFFICER STATIONED THERE, THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO ARREST 100% OF PEOPLE.

PROVIDING LEGAL ACCESS ALREADY MOST PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GOT LEGAL WAY.

AS WE SAW.

SO HAVING ACCESS COUPLED WITH ROBUST MULTIPLE PLAYED SECURITY TO MAKE IF HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO APPROACH, DETECT THEM WITH CAMERAS, ALSO AS MENTIONED FIXING FENCES, TALKING TO HPD ABOUT WHAT WOULD WORK.

CONTINUE DISCUSSION, IT'S A COMMUNITY DRIVEN PLAN.

TALKING ABOUT NEIGHBORHOOD POLICING AND HAVING NEIGHBORHOOD PATROL.

A LOT OF ELEMENTS.

>>Yunji: HEAR FROM YOU ON THAT.

I'M INTERESTED TO KNOW, IS THERE ANY SCENARIO IN WHICH YOU THINK THAT NEIGHBORHOOD THAT IS AT THE BASE OF THE STAIRS WOULD ACCEPT MANAGED ACCESS?

>> NO.

>> CAN I SPEAK TO THAT?

>> I WANT TO SAY, GONE ON FOR 40 YEARS.

WHOLE PURPOSE OF ERECTION OF THE STAIRS IS GONE.

IT WAS FOR MILITARY COMMUNICATIONS BECAUSE OF WORLD WAR II.

THERE'S NO PURPOSE IN IT BEING THERE EXCEPT NOW TO BE A RECREATIONAL SITE.

THAT'S NOT A GOOD USE OF NATURAL RESOURCE PEOPLE RESOURCES, OF OUR MONEY, ECONOMY RESOURCES.

WE JUST DON'T SEE THAT AS BEING VIABLE.

THERE'S JUST BEEN TOO MANY ALTERCATIONS AND YOU KNOW, 90% OF OUR NATIVE PLANTS, CANNOT BE FOUND ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

ALONG THE STAIRS ARE ENDANGERED NATIVE SPECIES.

THERE IS WITH ALL OF THE TRESPASSING, JUST ACCESS, THERE ARE INVASIVE SPECIES BEING INTRODUCED IN JUST THE EROSION ALONE, WE'RE CALLED WINDWARD SIDE FOR A REASON.

WE HAVE WINDS AND RAINS.

VERY LUSH.

VERY WET AS COMPARED TO CENTRAL OAHU, THE WEST SIDE, WHICH IS DRYER.

SO A LOT OF EVEN THE RESCUES, YOU SEE THE BASKET JUST SWAYING WITH THE WINDS.

MANY OF THOSE RESCUERS ARE FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

SO TO PUT THEM AT RISK WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY OTHER ISSUES, THAT ARE ARE LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND FIRE DEPARTMENTS HAVE TO DO, IS RIDICULOUS.

>> WE AGREE.

>>Yunji: ALMOST OUT OF TIME.

>> WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HEARD FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S NO WIGGLE ROOM THERE.

>> MAY I SPEAK TO THAT?

KANEOHE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD GOING DOOR‑TO‑DOOR TALKING TO RESIDENTS.

ACTUALLY RESIDENT ONE OF PLAINTIFFS IN OUR LAWSUIT.

SOMEONE LIVES RIGHT ON KANEKE STREET, MAIN TRESPASSING CONCERNS.

>> FOUNDER OF FRIEND OF HAIKU STAIRS.

RESIDENTS.

LIVES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

IMMEDIATE TWO VICE PRESIDENTS LIVE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

TO SAY THE COMMUNITY IS AGAINST THIS REALLY FALSE NARRATIVE.

YES, THERE ARE PEOPLE OPPOSED TO THE STAIRS.

>> WE'VE BEEN GOING DOOR‑TO‑DOOR.

KNOCKED ON 200 DOORS.

SPOKEN TO OVER 65 PEOPLE.

KANEOHE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD.

HAVEN'T BEEN TRYING TO PUSH THE ISSUE.

JUST ACTUALLY BEEN TRYING TO WORK ON TRESPASSING.

ASKING TRESPASSING A PROBLEM.

NOT TRYING TO SWAY THE ISSUE.

NEUTRAL CONTACT.

WHEN PEOPLE HAVE OFFERED OPINION ON MANAGED ACCESS, 65 PEOPLE DID.

VAST MAJORITY OF THEM SPORT STAIRS.

THAT'S MORE THAN 3 QUARTERS.

>>Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE MATAYOSHI WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

, I ALSO WENT DOOR‑TO‑DOOR.

PREPANDEMIC.

BEEN A COUPLE OF YEARS.

NOT SURPRISED RESIDENTS ARE FOR A WORKABLE MANAGED ACCESS PLAN.

AGAIN, THE RESIDENTS AND MYSELF WORKING ON MANAGED ACCESS PLAN.

WORKING MANAGED ACCESS PLAN, GREAT.

STOP TRESPASSING.

>> KEEP THE STAIRS.

EVERYONE IS HAPPY.

IF YOU ASK A RESIDENT, DO YOU AGREE A WORKABLE ACCESS MANAGEMENT PLAN IS A GOOD ALTERNATIVE, THEY'RE GOING TO SAY YES.

WHEN I WENT AROUND AND ASKED THEM IF A MANAGED ACCESS PLAN, KIND OF BEFORE MANAGED ACCESS WAS REALLY STARTING TO WORK WITH CALDWELL, 75% DID NOT WANT IT IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

THAT SPEAKS TO IF MANAGED ACCESS IS NOT GOING TO WORK, THEN THE STAIRS HAVE TO GO.

SO AGAIN, THERE'S NO DISAGREEMENT HERE.

IF WE COULD CREATE A WORKABLE MANAGED ACCESS, COMMUNITY WOULD BE BEHIND GIVING A TRY.

HAVEN'T SEEN ANY WORKABLE MANAGED ACCESS.

HPD TELLING US IT'S INCREDIBLY EXPENSIVE AND YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH THOSE NUMBERS IF YOU WANT.

BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN WORKABLE MANAGED ACCESS PLAN TO PROVIDE ADEQUATE SECURITY AND HAD 35 YEARS TO CREATE ONE.

I'M STILL WAITING.

>> KANEOHE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD DOES NOT SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY.

MOST OF THEM ARE IN SUPPORT OF FRIENDS OF HAIKU STAIRS.

>> ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD.

>> ELECTED PEOPLE RENT‑DID REPRESENTS COMMUNITY.

HEARD FROM THE COMMUNITY AND VOTED CONSISTENTLY TO SUPPORT MANAGED ACCESS BECAUSE THEY HEAR FROM RESIDENTS COME TO THE MEETING AND OVERWHELMINGLY PEOPLE SUPPORT THE STAIRS.

>> HANDFUL OF PEOPLE SPEAK AGAINST IT.

LAST RESOLUTION UNANIMOUS.

2017, PASSED WITHOUT OPPOSITION.

TO SAY THE COMMUNITY IS AGAINST THIS IS REALLY MISREPRESENTING.

YES, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE UNHAPPY, WE'RE NOT HAPPY ABOUT TRESPASSING.

WORK TOGETHER TO SOLVE THE TRESPASSING, PUT IN PLACE A SECURITY PLAN THAT WORKS, GIVE IT A CHANCE.

>>Yunji: WHAT WHERE DO YOU THINK WE GO FROM HERE?

>> I THINK IF PEOPLE CONTINUE TO ACCESSING THE STAIRS FROM SAY THE MOANALUA SIDE, OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE HONOLULU SIDE, THAT SIDE OF THE MOUNTAIN IS JUST GOING TO GET, IT'S ALREADY SO, SO ERODED MOANALUA MIDDLE.

AND GOING UP EVEN KULANA HANE, SADDLE, SO MUCH MORE DANGEROUS AND IT'S NOT GOOD.

>>Yunji: WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS: SEAN PAGER AND REP. SCOT MATAYOSHI, LENA HAAPALA, AND LORRIE ANN SANTOS.

NEXT WEEK, AUGUST IS PEDESTRIAN SAFETY MONTH.

WHAT’S BEING DONE TO MAKE OUR ROADS SAFER FOR WALKERS AND RUNNERS, PLUS SOME IMPORTANT SAFETY TIPS BOTH PEDESTRIANS AND DRIVERS SHOULD BE FOLLOWING.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M YUNJI DE NIES FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI`I.

ALOHA!

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