THE UNITED STATES ANNEXED HAWAII 125 YEARS AGO DESPITE EXHAUSTIVE DOCUMENTED EFFORTS OPPOSING THE MOVE BY QUEEN LILIUOKALANI AND MOST KANAKA MAOLI OR NATIVE HAWAIIANS.

THE ANNEXATION CAME DURING A TIME OF IMPERIALISTIC EXPANSION AROUND THE GLOBE BY THE U.S. HOW MANY KNOW THE TRUE STORY OF WHAT HAPPENED?

TONIGHT’S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII START NOW.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M YUNJI DENIES.

IN 1893, THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM WAS ILLEGALLY OVERTHROWN, AFTER A GROUP OF AMERICAN BUSINESSMEN LED BY SANFORD DOLE STAGED A COUP AGAINST QUEEN LILIUOKALANI.

THE REVOLUTIONARIES WERE BACKED BY AMERICAN TROOPS AND THE QUEEN YIELDED HER THRONE UNDER PROTEST TO AVOID ANY BLOODSHED.

DESPITE AN ORDER BY UNITED STATES PRESIDENT GROVER CLEVELAND TO RESTORE THE QUEEN’S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, DOLE AND HIS PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT REFUSED WITH THEIR SIGHTS SET ON ANNEXATION.

THAT CAME FIVE YEARS LATER IN 1898 FOLLOWING CONTINUOUS OPPOSITION FROM QUEEN LILIUOKALANI, HER SUPPORTERS, AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE HAWAIIAN POPULATION.

SCHOLARS AT THE TIME AND SINCE QUESTIONED HOW THE UNITED STATES PUT DEMOCRACY ASIDE IN LIEU OF IMPERIALIST EXPANSION ACROSS THE GLOBE THAT INCLUDED HAWAII, THE PHILIPPINES, GUAM, THE MARIANA ISLANDS AND PUERTO RICO.

OUR PANEL TONIGHT LOOKS BACK AT THE HISTORY OF HAWAII’S ANNEXATION AND WHY IT SHOULD NEVER BE FORGOTTEN.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS, AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

JON OSORIO IS THE DEAN OF HAWAIINUIAKEA SCHOOL OF HAWAIIAN KNOWLEDGE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA, EARNING HIS PH.D.

IN HISTORY FROM UH.

HE’S ALSO AN AUTHOR, COMPOSER, AND SINGER, AND HAS BEEN A HAWAIIAN MUSIC RECORDING ARTIST SINCE 1975.

VINA LANZONA IS AN AUTHOR AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HISTORY AT UH MANOA.

BORN AND RAISED IN THE PHILIPPINES, SHE GREW UP UNDER MARTIAL LAW IN THE COUNTRY.

SOME OF HER COURSES INCLUDE MODERN PHILIPPINE AND SOUTHEAST ASIAN HISTORY AND WOMEN AND REVOLUTION.

CATHERINE CRUZ IS A HOST AND NEWS REPORTER WITH HAWAII PUBLIC RADIO.

PRIOR TO THAT, SHE SPENT MORE THAN 30 YEARS AS A TELEVISION REPORTER AT KITV.

ORGINALLY FROM GUAM, SHE IS ALSO A CO‑FOUNDER OF PACIFIC ISLANDERS IN COMMUNICATIONS, A NON‑PROFIT MEDIA ARTS ORGANIZATION.

AND TOM COFFMAN IS AN INDEPENDENT RESEARCHER, WRITER AND PRODUCER.

AFTER SPENDING YEARS AS A NEWSPAPER JOURNALIST, HE MOVED ON TO WRITING BOOKS AND VIDEO PRODUCTIONS.

HIS 1998 FILM "NATION WITHIN" RECOUNTS THE EXHAUSTIVE EFFORTS BY QUEEN LILIUOKALANI AND HER SUPPORTERS TO RESIST ANNEXATION.

FOLLOWING OUR SHOW TONIGHT, PBS HAWAII WILL BROADCAST "NATION WITHIN," SO WE WANT TO START OUR DISCUSSION WITH A BRIEF CLIP FROM THE FILM.

TAKE A LOOK.

EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED THE OVERTHROW HAVE BEEN PASSED OFF AS INEVITABLE AND THEREFORE OF LITTLE INTEREST, BUT UNEARTHING THE STRANGE FIVE YEARS BETWEEN THE OVERTHROW AND AMERICA’S ANNEXATION OF HAWAII, REVEALS NOT ONLY WHERE DEEDS WERE BURIED IN ISLAND SOIL, BUT SOMETHING OF HOW IN THE PROCESS, AMERICA BECAME THE WORLD POWER THAT IT IS TODAY.

>>Yunji: THANK YOU FOR ALL PUT HERE.

>> INCREDIBLE FILM.

>> ENCOURAGE FOLKS TONIGHT TO TUNE IN AND STAY WITH OUR PROGRAM AFTERWARDS TO WATCH IT.

I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

TELL US ABOUT WHY YOU WANTED TO TELL THIS STORY.

>> WELL, I CAME HERE IN 1965, AND NOT KNOWING MUCH, AND NOT KNOWING MORE THAN ANY OTHER IMMIGRANT REALLY.

AND I WAS FORTUNATE TO BE HERE AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE LIKE JOHN DOMINIS HOLT STARTED TO RESURRECT THE STORY OF THE QUEEN AND THE STORY OF THE OVERTHROW, AND TO QUESTION THE MISSIONARY NARRATIVE.

AND I BECAME CAUGHT UP IN IT.

I WENT FROM BEING A NEWSPAPER REPORTER TO A YEAR WORKING FOR THE COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAM OF WAIANAE NANAKULI AND KALIHI‑PALAMA.

AND THERE, I GOT KNOW MANY MANY HAWAIIANS WHO WERE DOWNTRODDEN, WHO WERE NEGATIVELY AFFECTED BY THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF HISTORY.

AND ON THE ONE HAND, I SENSED THERE WAS THIS INJUSTICE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I SENSED THIS VITALITY, TREMENDOUS VITALITY AND POTENTIAL FOR PURSUING SOCIAL CHANGE.

SOCIAL JUSTICE.

AND I FOLLOWED THAT.

FOLLOWED EVOLUTION OF THAT AND WAS OVER A COURSE OF A LOT YEARS AND A LOT OF ACQUAINTANCES AND A LOT OF OUTINGS WITH PEOPLE TRAVELING THE ISLANDS, AND DIGGING INTO THE ARCHIVES, I SAW IN 1893, THERE WAS THIS TREMENDOUS FANTASTIC UPWELLING WHICH BROUGHT 20 OR 30,000 PEOPLE TOGETHER AT THE PALACE, ONIPAA STAND FAST, AND I WAS SENSING THERE WAS NO EQUIVALENT NARRATIVE DEVELOPING FOR THIS WAS CALLED STRANGE FIVE YEARS.

THEY WERE VERY STRANGE FIVE YEARS YEARS OF WHICH HISTORY HAD BEEN COMPLETELY SUPPRESSED OR DISTORTED.

SO I WAS DETERMINED TO WORK ON THAT AND I DID.

SORT OF GOT CARRIED AWAY.

I GOT CONNECTED TO SOME FANTASTIC, A LOT OF FANTASTIC RESOURCE PEOPLE OF WHAT A FILM JON OSORIO.

IN TERMS OF OUR NARRATIVE, UNDERSTANDING OF NARRATIVE, AT THE TIME, I, BY INTUITION AND SOME GOOD JUDGMENT ON MY PART, I FOUND THE TWO YOUNG MAKERS OF THE NEXT STAGE OF NARRATIVE AND THEY WERE JON OSORIO AND DR. NOENOE SILVA.

BOTH OF WHOM SUBSEQUENTLY WROTE MAJOR WORKS WHICH HAVE BECOME PART OF THE CANON OF OUR UNDERSTANDING.

AND IT CAME TOGETHER IN BOTH A FILM AND BOOK.

>>Yunji: LET'S TALK TO JON NOW.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO, JUST WANT TO PREFACE EVERYTHING WITHOUT BELABORING THE POINT.

NO LONGER USE THE WORD ANNEXATION TO DESCRIBE HAWAII'S STATUS AFTER 1998 BECAUSE IN PART BECAUSE OF THE RESEARCH LIKE NOENOE SILVA AND DR. KEANU SAI POINT OUT THAT THE HAWAIIAN POLITICAL REACTION OF THE HAWAIIAN POLITICAL PARTIES IN THE KINGDOM, IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, WHEN WE WERE NO LONGER OPERATING AS A KINGDOM,.

[HAWAIIAN LANGUAGE] SET ABOUT THESE TWO MAJOR PETITIONS IN THE ISLANDS AND REALLY PUT TOGETHER SOMETHING LIKE 37,000 SIGNATURES ON THESE TWO PETITIONS WHEN THERE WERE MAYBE 38,000 KANAKA MAOLI LIVING HERE.

OPPOSING ANNEXATION.

AND THE SENATE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PASS A TREATY ANNEXATION IN 1897 AND FAILED TO SECURE ENOUGH VOTES.

SO WHAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE 1898, RESOLUTION ACCEPTING THE SESSION OF HAWAII'S AUTHORITY AND CONTROL, AND GOVERNMENT LANDS THAT HAD BEEN SEIZED BY THE ILLEGAL GOVERNMENT IN 1893.

SO ITS SIMPLE RESOLUTION THAT'S PASSED IN BOTH HOUSES, RIGHT?

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW TO DAY WHAT ACTUAL FORCE OF LAW RESOLUTION HAS IN AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE BUT WHICH DO UNDERSTAND IT'S NOT A TREATY ANNEXATION.

USE THE WORD TERRITORIALIZATION.

HAWAII WAS TERRITORIALIZED BY THAT ANNEXATION.

IT'S IMPORTANT WE SAY THIS BECAUSE IT PAYS HOMAGE TO THE QUEEN AND HER TO SUPPORTS AND HAWAIIAN PEOPLE WHO OPPOSED IT.

>>Yunji: I'M INTERESTED WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP, WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER BEING TAUGHT ABOUT THIS PERIOD IN HISTORY AND HOW DIFFERENT IT IS FROM WHAT PERHAPS IS BEING TAUGHT NOW OR WHAT IS NOT BEING TAUGHT NOW?

>> WELL, WE WERE TAUGHT VERY LITTLE, FIRST OF ALL.

AND IF ANYTHING, GROWING UP IN PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM, AND EVEN AT KAMEHAMEHA, THERE WAS JUST SORT OF NOTION THAT WE HAD KIND OF NATURALLY BECOME EVOLVED INTO AMERICAN CITIZENS.

THE STORY OF THE QUEEN AND OVERTHROW OF THE GOVERNMENT REALLY WASN'T TOLD.

ALMOST AS THOUGH IT WAS A SHAMEFUL KIND OF THING.

THERE WAS JUST THIS IMMENSE SILENCE ABOUT IT.

BUT TOM IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

IN THE MID TO LATE SIXTIES, THERE WERE JUST MORE AND MORE PEOPLE SAYING NO, THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY THE STORY.

THE STORY OF HAWAII'S TAKEOVER IS SIMILAR TO THE SAME KINDS OF MISADVENTURES THAT UNITED STATES WAS INVOLVED IN IN THE 1960S.

AND VIETNAM, PREVIOUSLY TO THAT, KOREA.

THAT THE UNITED STATES HAD PARTICIPATED IN THE DESTABLIZE OF THE HAWAIIAN GOVERNMENT, AND HAD REALLY REAPED BENEFITS OF IT.

THERE HAD NOT BEEN ACTUAL ARMED CONFLICT BETWEEN MARINER TROOPS AND HAWAIIAN PATRIOTS, THERE WAS STILL, THERE WAS ININTIMIDATION AND ACTION OF THE QUEEN THAT PREVENTED BLOODSHED.

THAT STORY EMERGED IN THE 1906'S DRIVES A LOT OF THE HAWAIIAN PROTEST LAND PROTEST OF THE 1970S RIGHT UP TO KAHOOLAWE.

>>Yunji: BRING YOU INTO THE CONVERSATION.

I KNOW THAT YOU LIVED HERE FOR MANY YEARS AND REPORTED ON ISSUES PERTAINING TO HAWAII.

YOU ORIGINALLY ARE FROM GUAM.

TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AN LEARNING HISTORY OF WHERE YOU GREW UP AND HOW DIFFERS PERHAPS OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT NOW.

>> WELL, I GUESS MY MEMORY GOES BACK REALLY TO JUST BEING IN THE U.S. BECAUSE PRIOR TO THAT, WE HAD BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE JAPANESE.

HERE IN HAWAII, EVERYBODY KNOWS DECEMBER 7, 1941.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW JAPAN HAD TAKEN OVER GUAM.

NUMBER WAS YEARS, WE WERE REALLY BRUTAL.

JAPANESE VERY BRUTAL TO ISLANDERS.

WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PHILIPPINES BATON MARCH, DEATH MARK.

DID SIMILAR IN GUAM.

FOUND OUT RECENTLY FROM A COUSIN OF MINE, MY GRANDMOTHER MISCARRIED BECAUSE THEY MARCHED ISLANDERS AROUND ENDLESSLY.

MY CONSCIOUSNESS COME UNDER THE U.S.

I HEARD STORE HOW BRUTAL IT WAS UNDER THE JAPANESE REGIME.

PRIOR TO THAT WE WERE UNDER THE SPANISH.

200 YEARS A LOT OF OUR CULTURE AND OUR TRADITIONS COME FROM THAT PLACE.

BECAUSE WE WERE COLONY OF SPAIN.

TOOK OVER AND WIPED OUT A LOT OF PEOPLE AND BROUGHT IN NEW RELIGIONS.

IT'S DIFFERENT.

AS A JOURNALIST HERE, LIVING HERE FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS.

I REMEMBER ONIPAA AND COVERING THAT AND BEING AN OBSERVER FROM ANOTHER ISLAND PLACE, BUT KIND OF FEELING THE PAIN AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY, THAT WAS VERY POWERFUL DAY.

NEVER FORGET THAT.

INCREDIBLE.

>>Yunji: MENTIONED OFF THE TOP YOU GROUP IN THE PHILIPPINES YOU BRING LENS OF BEING A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY.

WHY DO YOU FEEL IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE HISTORY AND TRUTH WHERE THEY COME FROM.

>> LIKE TO FOLLOW UP WITH WHAT CATHERINE WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF HOW PEOPLE PERCEIVE AMERICAN INSOLENCE OR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PHILIPPINES.

LONG TIME UNTIL NOW I THINK FILIPINOS ALWAYS THOUGHT ABOUT AMERICANS AS LIBERATORS AGAINST THE JAPANESE.

ALSO, FULLING WHAT JON WAS TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF ANNEXATION I THINK FOR FILIPINOS BOTH ANNEXATION AND COLONIZATION.

FILIPINOS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US NOW TO STILL REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED IN 1898, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY MY ROLE AS A PROFESSOR AND ALSO AS HISTORIAN IS TO SOMEHOW THE TRUTH ABOUT 1898 AND U.S. PHILIPPINE RELATIONS.

BECAUSE I ALWAYS TELL MY STUDENTS THAT WE SHOULD ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S.

STARTED AS REALLY VIOLENT RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE NOT ONLY WAS WE WERE ALSO ANNEXED FORCIBLY IN 1898 WE HAD THE REVOLUTION BEFORE THAT.

HAD A GOVERNMENT READY TO RATIFY A CONSTITUTION INDEPENDENT PUBLIC.

BECAUSE OF THE SPANISH AMERICAN WAR, WE WERE ACQUIRED BY THE U.S. AND OF COURSE THE FILIPINOS RESISTED.

FILIPINOS RESISTED.

FILIPINO AMERICAN WAR.

I COULD NEVER REALLY TALK ABOUT ANNEXATION WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT PHILIPPINE AMERICAN WAR.

BECAUSE REALLY, THEY'RE CONNECTED.

PHILIPPINES DID NOT JUST ACCEPT THE U.S., MAKING IT PART OF THE EMPIRE.

BUT IN FACT, FOUGHT AND ALMOST MILLION PEOPLE DIED BECAUSE OF THAT FIGHTING AND REVOLUTIONRIES A LOT OF THEM ALSO DIED DURING THE WAR.

I FEEL THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND IN FACT, WHEN I TELL THAT TO MY STUDENTS, PEOPLE ARE STILL VERY SURPRISED THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE PHILIPPINES STARTED THAT WAY.

AND HERE, IN HAWAII, MOST OF MY STUDENTS GREW UP HERE AND STUDIED PUBLIC SCHOOLS HERE AND SCHOOLS HERE IN HAWAII, AND THEY HAVEN'T HEARD OF THE PHILIPPINE AMERICAN WAR.

THEY HAVEN'T REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT THE PHILIPPINES HAVING THIS VERY VIOLENT BEGINNING OR WITH THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S. AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT'S STILL VERY REAL IN TERMS OF HOW WE LOOK AT RELATIONSHIP WITH PAST AND OUR RELATIONSHIP NOW WITH THE U.S. >>Yunji: I'M INTERESTED WHEN YOU WERE TALKING THIS FILM, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME WAS THAT HOW IS THIS NOT BETTER KNOWN?

WHEN WE HAVE THE KIND OF PARTICIPATION THAT JON IS TALKING ABOUT WITH THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE SIGNING THIS, AND PETITIONING AGAINST THIS, AND I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH THE DIRECTOR OF THE FILM ABOUT THIS, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE POINTED OUT WAS WELL, PRIMARY SOURCES WHICH ARE THE HAWAIIAN LANGUAGE NEWSPAPERS AN WRITINGS AT THE, NOT OPPORTUNITY FOR FOLKS TO READ THAT BECAUSE LANGUAGE WAS SUPPRESSED.

WE HAVE THIS RENAISSANCE MANY MORE PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO SPEAK HAWAIIAN AND ACCESS THOSE SOURCES.

>> ONE OF THE KEY THINGS WAS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH NOENOE SILVA, AN EARLY DAY PRACTITIONER OF EXPLORING HAWAIIAN LANGUAGE NEWSPAPERS.

>> EXTREMELY TALENTED LINGUIST.

BECAME BICULTURAL BINATIONAL PERSPECTIVE.

IN THE PREVIOUS NEWSPAPERS AND HAWAIIAN LANGUAGE NATIONAL NARRATIVE OF THE HAWAIIAN NATION AND OVER HERE, IS A NATIONAL NARRATIVE OF THE UNITED STATES AND SO THAT BECAME PART OF DYNAMIC OF UNEARTHING THE TWO AND SHOWING HOW THE UNITED STATES BASICALLY OCCUPIED HAWAII, HOW THE WORDS BECAME, INTERESTED IN JON'S TERRITORIALIZATION.

INTERESTING WORD.

>> IN THE WORD ILLEGAL, WAS ATTACHED NOT ONLY TO THE OVERTHROW, BUT THEN IT WAS ATTACHED TO THE WORDS ANNEXATION OR THE WORD BECAME OCCUPATION.

I THINK YOU CAN ONLY GET THERE BY GETTING INTO AN UNDERSTANDING THROUGH RECORDS LIKE THE HAWAIIAN NEWSPAPERS THAT THERE WAS A HAWAIIAN NATIONAL NARRATIVE THAT DROVE, IT WAS THAT HISTORY GOING FORWARD AND AS I THINK TODAY BECOMES BASIS FOR UNDERSTANDING CONTEMPORARY EVENTS DO I THINK IT SHEDS A LOT OF LIGHT ON CONTEMPORARY EVENTS.

>>Yunji: WERE YOU DESCRIBING SORT OF, THAT WERE YOU TAUGHT IT WAS INEVITABILITY HAWAII WOULD BECOME PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> I REMEMBER GROWING UP AND THINKING AND LEARNING IT WAS ALSO FOR HAWAII'SPROTECTION.

LAID OUT GREAT DEGREE IN THE FILM, OUTSIDE FORCES PRIMARILY JAPAN, THAT WERE A THREAT TO HAWAII.

HAWAII WAS KIND OF PROTECTED IN THIS WAY AND BECAME TERRITORY AND THEN A STATE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK KIDS ARE LEARNING NOW AND DO YOU THINK ENOUGH OF THE TRUTH IS BEING TAUGHT?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT QUESTION.

I WANT TO ALSO SAY THAT THERE IS ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IMPERIAL ROLE IN THE PACIFIC AND ASIA.

TEACH IN THE FOUNDATIONAL HAWAIIAN STUDIES COURSE, HAWAIIAN STUDIES 107, WE DON'T JUST TEACH ABOUT HAWAIIAN CULTURE AND HAWAIIAN HISTORY.

ACTUALLY EXAMINE OUR RELATIONSHIP TO ALL OCEANIA REALLY BECAUSE WE OCEANIA BECAUSE WE ARE ANCESTRALLY CONNECTED.

WE COME FROM COMMON ANCESTORS, AUSTRIAN AND ASIAN SPEAKING PEOPLE OCCUPIED REALLY THE WESTERN PACIFIC REGION AND DID THIS MIGRATION FORWARD.

WE SEE OURSELF AS PART OF THIS LARGER HISTORY.

AND THEN WE SEE THE COMPARABLE HISTORIES THAT WE HAVE ENDURED IN TERMS OF TAKEOVERS BY EUROPEANS.

EUROPEAN NATION AND UNITED STATES.

SEE THE RISE AND FALL OF NATIONAL FORTUNES, PLAYED OUT IN PACIFIC.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO TEACH THESE THINGS TO PEOPLE SO WE DON'T SEE THIS IS INEVITABLE.

WE SEE THAT AS RESULT OF SPECIFIC GROUPS OF PEOPLE EXERTING POWER, MONEY, MILITARIZATION IN KEY TIMES IN WORLD.

I THINK STUDENTS TODAY ARE MUCH MORE AWARE OF THAT HISTORY, THAT REALLY, WHEN I WAS TEEN AGER.

>> NONE OF US KNEW.

OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE UNITED STATES IN THE 1960S WAS AS VICTORS IN THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

AND NOW, I THINK MORE AND MORE YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY TAKE AS A MATTER OF COURSE IT THERE WAS THIS POWER PLAY, THERE HAVE BEEN A SERIES OF POWER PLACE.

IT IS AFFECTED OUR PEOPLE IN REALLY SIMILAR WAYS.

AND THAT IT SAY NATURAL ENOUGH THING TO KNOW THIS AND TO CONCEIVE OF A FUTURE WHERE MAYBE WE SHIFT FROM INTO SOMETHING THAT IS EVERYBODY HEALTHIER FOR OURSELVES AND FOR OUR ISLAND AND FOR OUR PEOPLE.

NIGHT WANT TO ALERT PEOPLE TO SOMETHING HIGH PRESSURED VERY INTERESTING.

NATURAL PORTRAIT GALLERY HAS EXHIBITION 1898 UNITED STATES EXPANSION NOT ONLY HAWAII BUT INTO GUAM, PUERTO RICO AND PHILIPPINES.

IT'S THE FIRST MAJOR SMITHSONIAN EXHIBITION THAT FOCUSES ON THIS VERY CONTROVERSIAL TIME IN OUR NATION'S HISTORY.

CATHERINE CRUZ HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO WASHINGTON AND ACTUALLY GET TO THIS IN PERSON, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS EXHIBITION AND WHY IT'S SO SIGNIFICANT.

>> I LEARNED ABOUT IT BECAUSE I WAS COVERING THE EXIT OF THE QUEEN'S PORTRAIT FROM THE PALACE.

SAYING IT WAS GETTING BOXED UP.

AND DC TO PART OF THIS EXHIBIT.

ON LOAN AND IN EXCHANGE FOR THAT, THE PORTRAIT WAS GOING TO BE REINFORCED, CLEANED AND SO IT WAS REALLY A MAJOR DEAL FOR THIS PORTRAIT TO LEAVE ISLANDS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO THE SPANISH AMERICAN WAR?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

YOU LEARN PART OF HISTORY BUT I JUST NEVER REALLY COULD FIGURE OUT HOW IT ALL CONNECTED WITH HAWAII'S ISSUES.

AND THE VALUE OF THAT EXHIBIT TO ME, WAS INCREDIBLE BECAUSE IT CONNECTED THE DOTS.

AND SO THEN I COULD UNDERSTAND.

OKAY.

THAT IS WHY THE HAWAIIANS ARE MAD.

THAT'S WHY WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PHILIPPINES AND PUERTO RICO AND CUBA.

SO FOR ME, THAT WAS THE A‑HA MOMENT.

AND TOM AND I HAD THIS CONVERSATION.

WHEN I LOOKED AT THE GUAM AREA, IT'S THIN COMPARED TO HAWAII.

AND OTHER PLACES.

BECAUSE THERE'S NOT MUCH LEFT.

AND I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE A PETITION ON THE WALL.

ACTUALLY PART OF THE WHOLE THING, I HAD GONE WITH AND COVERED THE HAWAIIANS THAT WERE THERE AND THEY WENT TO THE ARCHIVES AND THEY SAW THE ACTUAL PETITIONS AND THEY LOOKED FOR THEIR RELATIVES NAMES.

THAT WAS PRETTY EMOTIONAL.

VERY POWERFUL.

TO SEE THE GUAM EXHIBIT AND SEE PETITION THERE FROM A GROUP OF LEADERS IN THE COMMUNITY ASKING THE U.S., PLEASE, WHY CAN'T WE ELECT OUR OWN OFFICIALS?

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A CHAMORRO OR GOVERNOR WE CHOOSE OURSELVES?

WE THINK OVER THE YEARS, WE HAVE SHOWN OUR LOYALTY TO THE U.S. AND WE ARE GRATEFUL FOR LIBERATING US FROM THE JAPANESE WE HAVE SHOWN OUR LOYALTY AND WE EXPECT THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO VOTE FOR OUR OWN LEADERS.

I SAW MY RELATIVES' NAME ON THERE.

GREGORIO PARIS.

GREAT GRANDFATHER.

BLEW ME AWAY.

CALLED MY AUNTY.

DID YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS?

PEOPLE OF GUAM DIDN'T JUST PETITION ONE TIME.

THEY PETITIONED 8 TIMES.

WE WERE UNDER NAVAL GOVERNANCE FOR SO LONG.

AHA MOMENT, THE UNDERSTANDING WHAT HAWAII WAS GOING THROUGH AND NOW UNDERSTANDING WHAT GUAM WENT THROUGH, BECAUSE WE LOOKED AT U.S. LIBERATORS.

>> I REMEMBER AS A CHILD, LEARNING AND BEING ASKED ABOUT THE 4TH OF JULY, LIBERATION, INDEPENDENCE DAY AND I DIDN'T REALLY QUITE GET THAT.

BECAUSE WE CELEBRATE LIBERATION DAY WHEN THE U.S.

CAME IN AND LIBERATED US FROM THE JAPANESE.

WE CELEBRATED JULY 4TH FOR A LONG TIME AS OUR INDEPENDENCE DAY AFTER THE WAR.

U.S. GRANTED PHILIPPINES INDEPENDENCE JULY 4, 1946.

BUT THEN WE CHANGED IT NOW.

BEEN CHANGED SINCE THE SIXTIES TO JUNE 12.

THE DAY WHEN OUR REPUBLIC WAS PROCLAIMED.

JUST GOING BACK TO 1898, EXHIBIT, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT DO I FEEL LIKE 1893, OUR HISTORY GOT INTERTWINED IN THAT SENSE.

HAWAII, PHILIPPINES AND GUAM.

AND OF COURSE PUERTO RICO AND ALL THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHY THEY NEEDED TO ANNEX PHILIPPINES, SAME AS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT HAWAII.

LIKE THEY ALSO NEEDED TO PROTECT IT FROM ALL THE OTHER FOREIGNERS OR FOREIGN COUNTRIES THAT WERE INTERESTED IN THE PHILIPPINES LIKE GERMANY, SO U.S.

THERE TO PROTECT IT FROM OTHER AGGRESSIVE NATIONS.

AND THE WAY THAT THEY ALSO PORTRAY OUR LEADERS, SO QUEEN LILI'UOKALANI AND THEN WE HAVE OUR OWN PRESIDENT, YONAGA PRESENTED IN U.S. PRESS, SAVAGES NEEDED TUTELAGE AND GUIDANCE OF THE U.S. BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND DEMOCRACY IN THAT SENSE.

HAWAII MONARCHY AND THEN PHILIPPINES WAS UNDER 300 YEARS OF SPAIN WHICH WAS REALLY THIS KIND OF FUTILE COUNTRY, NATION, THAT WAS DID NOT REALLY TEACH FILIPINOS HOW TO GOVERN THEMSELVES.

ALL SAME ARGUMENTS THAT WE FACED WITH WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT HAWAII, WHAT THEY SAID, AND OF COURSE, ISSUE OF RACISM WAS VERY POTENT IN TERMS OF THE WAY THEY PORTRAYED FILIPINOS AND EVEN, OUR REVOLUTION AGAINST SPAIN WAS SEEN.

THEN OUR WAR AGAINST AMERICANS FOR A LONG TIME, THEY THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THEY PRESENTED IT AS INSURGENCY.

WASN'T A LEGITIMATE WAR.

WHEN IN FACT, OF COURSE, WE HAD REPUBLIC AND U.S. AT THAT POINT, REALLY DISMISSED THAT BECAUSE FILIPINOS ARE NOT READY.

>> REMINDED TODAY, READING AGAIN ABOUT FREDERICK JACKSON TURNER AND ALFRED MAHA CAPTAIN WHO BOTH, IN THE SENSE OF THE PERIOD, TURNER IN 1893 PUBLISHES THIS THESIS THAT BECAUSE OF AMERICANS BASICALLY RUN OUT OF FRONTIERS, THAT THEY WERE EVERYWHERE IN THE NORTH AMERICAN CONTENT.

REALLY HAD TO, IN ORDER TO CONTINUE AMERICAN ENERGY, AMERICAN SPIRIT, BASICALLY HAD TO PROCEED ACROSS THE PACIFIC.

IT WAS REALLY, IT WAS MANIFEST DESTINY.

NEEDED TO HAPPEN FOR AMERICA TO REALIZE GREATNESS.

CAPTAIN MAHA SAYING NAVAL POWER THAT ACCOUNTS FOR THE RISE AND FALL OF NATIONS, WHICH THIS TARGETING PLACES LIKE HAWAII, BUT ALSO, PHILIPPINES.

ALSO, GUAM.

THESE POSSESSION BECOME NECESSARY FOR AMERICA TO MOVE FORWARD.

I KEEP THINKING OF THIS.

BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME, CUBA IS IN REVOLT AGAINST SPANISH AND PUERTO RICO WANTS ITS INDEPENDENCE.

LOTS OF AMERICANS WHO THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

DON'T LIKE THE SPANISH.

THINK SPANISH ARE CRUEL.

ALMOST UNIVERSALLY.

BUT VERY FEW AMERICANS ACTUALLY SPEAK UP FOR NATIVE PEOPLE, SLAVES BEING ABLE TO GOVERN THEMSELVES WHERE A LOT OF RACISM IS.

YOU CAN TAKE THESE PLACES BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LIKE US.

>> I WAS STRUCK DURING THAT EXHIBIT TO SEE AND LEARN ABOUT PHILIPPINES' FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE.

I'M PART FILIPINO.

I'M PART SPANISH.

AND AT THE TIME, WHEN I WENT TO DC, I SAW AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON MY HUSBAND'S FAMILY BECAUSE HE HAS TIES TO FOLKS THAT WERE IN GEORGE WASHINGTON'S ARMY AND THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM AGAINST THE BRITISH.

SO TO GO ONE DAY TO THE PORTRAIT GALLERY, ANOTHER DAY TO GO TO THE ARCHIVE CINCINNATI SOCIETY AND LEARN ABOUT HOW THE AMERICANS TRIED TO GET THEIR INDEPENDENCE FROM THE BRITISH, AND I JUST THOUGHT, WHY IS INDEPENDENCE NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE FILIPINOS OR THE CHAMORROS?

WE SUFFERED UNDER THE SPANISH AS WELL.

VERY BRUTAL.

AMERICANS WERE NICE TO PEOPLE IN GUAM.

AT THE TIME.

LITTLE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.

I KNOW THERE ARE FOLKS THAT ARE RAISING THEIR VOICES ABOUT THE MILITARIZATION OF GUAM BUILDING UP BASES.

YOUNG PEOPLE EDUCATE HERED AT UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII SEE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN HAWAII AND THEY'RE LEARNING AND THEY'RE QUESTIONING THE MILITARY.

>>Yunji: MAINTAIN THEIR PRESENCE IN THE PACIFIC.

>> AND REALLY HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE 19TH CENTURY.

WHEN THEY WANTED TO PROJECT JON WAS SAYING NAVAL POWER.

AND THEY KNOW THAT IN A WAY, SPANISH AMERICAN WAR PROVIDED THEM THIS OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE THEY WERE VARYING FOR A WAR, FOUND A WAR, THEY DEFEATED SPANISH HANDILY EASILY, AND THEN THEY HAVE NOW WHAT TO DO WITH CUBA, PUERTO RICO AND PHILIPPINES.

AND IN FACT, THIS FAMOUS STORY OF MCKINLEY NOT EVEN KNOWING EXACTLY WHERE THE PHILIPPINES WAS.

AND HE HAD TO LOOK ON THE MAP AND SAID, OKAY THIS IS THE PHILIPPINES AND WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

THE MAP, COLONY BEING INVOKED AS CHRISTIANITY.

GOD SPOKE TO ME, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE PHILIPPINES AND CIVILIZE THEM.

CHRISTIANIZE THEM.

SAME DISCOURSE ALL THE OTHERS.

>> TALK ABOUT MILITARY MIGHT, ONE OF THINGS IN THAT EXHIBIT POINTS OUT A LOT OF THE NAVAL OFFICERS KIND OF CUT THEIR TEETH ON WARS WITH THE INDIANS.

I'M PART NATIVE AMERICAN TOO.

YOU HURT FOR ALL OF THESE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES UNDER GREATER MIGHT WHOEVER IT IS TAKING OVER THE COUNTRY.

>>Yunji: WE HAVE QUITE A FEW VIEWER QUESTIONS.

>> I WANT TO GO TO TOM HERE.

MIKE ON KAUAI SAYS, DO YOU THINK HAWAII WOULD HAVE INEVITABLY BEEN OCCUPIED BY ANOTHER COUNTRY IF NOT ANNEXED BY UNITED STATES?

I APPRECIATE ALL THE RESEARCH BY THE PANEL IN 1989 THERE WERE ONLY 30 TO 40,000 HAWAIIANS REMAINING.

WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED U.S.

DIDN'T TERRITORIALIZE HAWAII?

HAWAII WAS VERY WEAK AT THAT POINT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT VIEWPOINT?

>> ANSWER TO HIS QUESTION IS NO.

I DO NOT THINK ANOTHER COUNTRY WOULD HAVE TAKEN IT OVER BECAUSE I THINK THE DIPLOMACY.

JON'S LIST OF DIPLOMACY OF 1843 BY THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM HAD SECURED COMMITMENTS FROM THE GREAT WESTERN SEA POWERS, UNITED STATES, BRITAIN AND FRANCE GUARANTEEING INDEPENDENCE OF HAWAII.

HAWAII HAD VERY FRIENDLY RELATIONSHIPS WITH JAPAN.

AND HAWAII HAD FRIENDLY RELATIONSHIPS, AND HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP WITH JAPANESE UNIQUELY ENHANCED BY KALAKAUA REINFORCED BY THE QUEEN.

ENHANCED BY BECAUSE SORT OF HANGS AS A GREAT BUGABOO OF HISTORY WHILE IF WE HADN'T RESCUED HAWAII, JAPANESE WOULD.

I SPECIFICALLY ASKED THAT QUESTION OF THE TWO LEADING HISTORIANS OF JAPANESE HISTORY.

DR. IRIE, OF HARVARD, AND DR. SO‑AND‑SO OF WISCONSIN.

AND THEY ALL SAID, NO.

JAPAN HAD NO INTEREST AND HAD NO DOCUMENTABLE INTEREST IN TAKING OVER HAWAII.

>> HISTORY OF AMERICA AND JAPANESE RELATIONSHIPS MIGHT HAVE BEEN VERY DIFFERENT NOT AMERICAN BUILD UP.

NAVAL BUILD UP IN HAWAII.

IN THE 20 THEY CENTURY.

>> I DON'T LIKE WHAT IF HISTORY, BUT I CANNOT AVOID THE THOUGHT AND THE AGONIZING THOUGHT THAT THE HORROR OF THE PACIFIC WAR MIGHT NEVER HAVE OCCURRED HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR AMERICA'S TAKEOVER OF HAWAII AND THE WAY IN WHICH IT THREW THAT RELATIONSHIP IN A DISEQUILIBRIUM AND FOLLOWED THAT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WAS ADVISED BY THE COMMANDER OF THE NAVAL DISTRICT OF AT PEARL HARBOR AND BY A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE, TO NOT MOVE THE AMERICAN FLEET TO PEARL HARBOR.

NOT HAVE PORT AT PEARL HARBOR BECAUSE IT WAS A PROVOCATIVE ACT.

EXTENSION OF THAT HISTORY BUT HISTORY THAT GOT A VERY DEEP ROOT.

>>Yunji: I WANT TO BRING THESE QUESTIONS TO YOU.

I'LL READ FOUR OF THEM.

VARIETY OF OPINIONS.

YOU CAN JUST HEAR THE DIFFERENCES AND HOW OUR VIEWERS THINKING RIGHT NOW.

ALAN SAYS, CAN YOU PLEASE DISCUSS THE POSSIBILITY OF HAWAII BECOMING INDEPENDENT COUNTRY TODAY.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF RESTORING THE HAWAIIAN MONARCHY AND HAWAIIAN KINGDOM.

HAWAII IS PART OF THE UNITED STATES.

MOST PEOPLE IN HAWAII LIKE BEING AMERICANS.

STAY AMERICANS EVEN IF FEW LOUDMOUTH SUCCESSIONIST DON'T LIKE IT SAYING HAWAIIAN SOVEREIGNTY MOVEMENT TODAY?

>> START WITH YES, THERE'S A HAWAIIAN SOVEREIGNTY MOVEMENT TODAY.

IT'S VERY MUCH A MULTIFACETED MOVEMENT NUMBER OF PEOPLE FAVORING RESTORATION OF KINGDOM AS A LEGAL RESTORATION.

ONLY THING THAT YOU CAN DO TO HONOR INTERNATIONAL LAW IS TO RESTORE THE KINGDOM MORE OR LESS AS INTACT AS POSSIBLE.

OTHERS WHO ARE PURSUING DECOLONIZATION ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT THE UNITED NATIONS RECOMMENDS 1947 FOLLOWING WAR, THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN COLONIZED, HAVE THE RIGHT TO A PLEBISCITE, VOTE THAT INCLUDES POSSIBILITY OF INDEPENDENCE.

AND THEN PEOPLE WHO ARGUE STRENUOUSLY THAT AMERICA IS TOO POWERFUL AND HAWAIIANS SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT WITHIN THE STATE OF HAWAII.

NATION WITHIN A NATION.

KALAHUI WAS ONE OF THE FIRST MAJOR SOVEREIGNTY INITIATIVES IN THE LATE 1980S.

STILL EXISTS TODAY.

MANY PEOPLE FEEL THAT KIND OF GOVERNMENT WOULD WORK.

AS TO WHETHER HAWAII COULD ACTUALLY BE INDEPENDENT AGAIN,.

>> ANSWER THE QUESTION.

>> ONE QUESTION ALMOST WANT TO QUOTE IS FORMER GOVERNOR JOHN WAIHEE.

HE SAYS THINGS THAT I THINK ARE STARTLING TRUE.

THAT THE STATE OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC IS SO FACTIOUS AT THIS POINT.

SO UNPREDICTABLE.

THAT WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE UNITED STATES ACTUALLY GOING TO LOOK LAKE TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

THROUGH ANOTHER COUPLE OF REALLY DIFFICULT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, WITH SO MANY AMERICANS UNABLE TO SPEAK TO EACH OTHER ACROSS THE DIVIDE.

ONE OF THE TIMES THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, THERE WAS A CIVIL WAR, AND WHO KNOWS WHAT THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

IN SUCH A SITUATION, HAWAII MIGHT HAVE INDEPENDENCE FORCED ON IT.

AND HE FEELS AND I CERTAINLY FEEL, THAT WE SHOULD BE PREPARED IN HAWAII FOR MUCH MORE LOCAL RULE.

>>Yunji: CAN DO A WHOLE SHOW OF SOVEREIGNTY.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT THE STUDENTS FROM GUAM AND LEARNING FROM THE HAWAIIAN EXPERIENCE.

I'M INTERESTED BECAUSE GUAM IS IN THE UNIQUE POSITION OF NOT BEING A STATE.

BEING TERRITORY AND YOU SPOKE ON INTERVIEW THAT I LISTENED TO OUR PROGRAM ON HAWAI'I PUBLIC RADIO EVEN IF YOUR OWN FAMILY, SOME FAMILY MEMBERS CAN VOTE AND SOME CANNOT.

WHAT IS THE VIEW FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE AND BEING PART OF THE U.S.?

>> IT'S COZY.

I CAN VOTE.

BORN IN AIR FORCE BASE IN CALIFORNIA.

SO I GET TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENT.

MY VOTE COUNTS.

MY OLDEST BROTHER BORN IN SAN FRANCISCO.

>> GETS TO VOTE.

BROTHER IN AND SISTER LIVE IN GUAM AND THEIR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT.

PEOPLE OF GUAM HAVE NONVOTING DELEGATE TO CONGRESS.

WE DON'T HAVE A CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION WITH FOUR VOTES.

WE LOBBY BUT DON'T HAVE A VOTE.

RELY ON OUR FRIENDS IN HAWAII AND WHATEVER CONNECTIONS THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE.

SO YEAH, IT'S DIFFICULT.

THAT SAID, I COME FROM I WAS BORN IN AIR FORCE BASE.

FATHER AIR FORCE AND NAVY.

BROTHER RETIRED MARINE COLONEL.

BROTHER THAT'S RETIRED ARMY COLONEL, COME FROM A MILITARY BACKGROUND.

LIVED ON A BASE IN GUAM.

BASE PRIVILEGES.

BUT OUR FAMILY ALSO HAD OUR LAND TAKEN AWAY BY THE MILITARY.

WE'VE HAD SOME OF IT RETURNED.

SO YEAH, IT'S COMPLEX.

AND JOURNALIST ALWAYS BEEN AN OBSERVER IN HAWAII, OBSERVED RENAISSANCE WITH HAWAII CULTURE AND POWER OF THE SOVEREIGNTY MOVEMENT.

IT'S COMPLICATED.

LIKE I SAID, KIND OF LOOK TO THE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES AND MORE SIMILARITIES.

>>Yunji: AND TO THAT END, JANICE FROM PEARL CITY SAYS, ANNEXATION WAS WRONG DON'T YOU THINK WE HAVE BETTER STRUCTURE UNDER THE U.S.

TENSION YOU'RE TALLKING ABOUT.

WHICH INDEPENDENCE DAY DO YOU CELEBRATE AND ARE YOU THE VICTIM OR THE VICTOR?

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK IT WAS, THIS IS WHAT FILIPINOS WANT TO ARGUE.

ALL OF THESE GOOD THINGS WE GOT FROM THE U.S. FOR EXAMPLE, SYSTEM OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.

IT'S TRUE.

BEFORE UNDER SPANISH, VERY LIMITED ELITE EDUCATION.

U.S.

INTRODUCED PUBLIC EDUCATION.

THEY DID INTRODUCE ALL OF THIS DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THIS KIND OF SENSE OF THIS IS TOTAL COLONIAL.

TEACH YOU HOW TO BE DEMOCRATIC OR PROCESS OF DEMOCRACY.

REFORMED HEALTH AND SANITATION SYSTEMS.

SO WE HAVE A VERY SIMILAR POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE PHILIPPINES IN THE U.S. SYSTEM.

BICAMERAL LEGISLATURE.

BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

ALL OF THAT.

THINGS A LOT OF FILIPINOS ARE THANKFUL FOR IN TERMS OF INFLUENCE OF THE U.S. AT THE SAME TIME, IT WAS, I MEAN, AS WE SAID, THERE'S A LOT OF VIOLENCE IN TERMS OF HISTORY WITH THE U.S., AND A LOT MILITARIZATION.

CENSORING AND SURVEILLING PEOPLE.

THIS KIND OF, MOST FILIPINOS HAVE A KIND OF LOVE/HATE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S. ONE HAND, U.S. DID THIS, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WAS REALLY IN THE END, WAS U.S. WAS SERVING MOSTLY THEIR INTERESTS.

AND INTERESTS TO BECOME KIND OF EMPIRE.

>> I MEAN, THIS WHOLE IDEA THAT IT WAS EXCEPTIONAL EMPIRE IN THAT SENSE.

U.S.

STARTED IN THE PHILIPPINE, THEY WANT TO SAY, WE'RE NOT THE SAME AS THE EUROPEANS.

WE ARE EXCEPTIONAL BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BENEVOLENT ASSIMILATION AS THEY SAID.

BUT IN FACT, IN TERMS OF REALITY, IT WAS JUST AS VIOLENT, JUST AS EXCLUSIONARY, JUST AS DISCRIMINATORY.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY TRANSFORMED, TREATED FILIPINOS AS COLONIZED CITIZENS.

>> THAT EXHIBIT FOR ME, WAS EYE‑OPENER BECAUSE I DIDN'T REALIZE HOW MANY FILIPINOS DIED IN THE FIGHT FOR INDEPENDENCE.

TO THINK THAT FILIPINOS MAKE UP A LARGE PORTION OF OUR POPULATION TODAY.

NEED TO KNOW THAT HISTORY.

TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND POWERS AT PLAY.

>>Yunji: CAN YOU TAKE IT ONE?

ARE WE AS THIS STATE OCCUPIED BY AMERICA AND IF SO, WHAT RULES OF ENGAGEMENT OR PROTOCOLS SHOULD AMERICA, A KA STATE OF HAWAII SHOULD IMPLEMENTING.

INTERNATIONAL HUMAN TEARIAN LAW SHOULD BE ENACT.

>>Chair Kia'aina: WHAT AGENCY OVERSEES THIS?

>> WHAT I READ, RESPONSIBILITY OF MILITARY IN HAWAII TO OBSERVE AND PROTECT RULES OFEN ENGAGEMENT IN HAWAII WHEN YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S OCCUPATION.

>> UNITED STATES DOESN'T RECOGNIZE THIS AS OCCUPATION.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN ACTUALLY IS THAT BETWEEN 1900, THAT TERRITORIALIZATION AND 1959, THE STATEHOOD ACT, THE UNITED STATES ESSENTIALLY HAS CREATED THIS SITUATION WHERE MANY PEOPLE BASICALLY THINK OF AS ANOTHER STATE IN THE AMERICAN UNION.

DON'T REALIZE THAT WE WERE NEVER GIVEN A VOTE PER U.N.

GUIDELINES THAT WOULD ALLOW THE CHOICE OF INDEPENDENCE.

THIS IS, SO THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT LEADS SOME PEOPLE TO SAY, YOU CAN'T TRUST ANY OF THE SYSTEM.

WE SHOULD ACTUALLY REALLY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO LAWS OF OCCUPATION.

AND RULESEN ENGAGEMENT UNDER LAWS OF OCCUPATION.

UNITED STATES NEEDS TO LEAVE AND KINGDOM SHOULD BE RESTORED AS CLOSE TO ITS ORIGINAL STATE AS POSSIBLE.

THAT IS THE KIND OF RHETORIC AND KIND OF CONVERSATION WE HAVE AMONG OURSELVES.

BUT REALLY REALLY WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT OR ASK THE QUESTION, AREN'T WE BETTER OFF AS CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES?

I WOULD SAY THAT SETTLORS ARE BETTER OFF.

KINGDOM OF HAWAII AND TOM CAN ABSOLUTELY BACK ME UP ON THIS.

>> KING OF HIGHLY FUNCTION AND VERY LIBERAL CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY THAT OFFERED FRANCHISE LIBERALLY TO ASIANS.

LEGISLATURES OF 1960, 1970, 1980, EXACTLY WHAT THE UNITED STATES AND AMERICANS SAID WAS PROPER FOR MODERN COUNTRIES.

THAT'S THE COUNTRY THAT THE UNITED STATES TOOK OVER.

IT'S SUCH AN INTERESTING DISTINCTION.

WHAT YOU WOULD SAY TO JANICE'S QUESTION ANNEXATION WAS WRONG BUT AREN'T WE BETTER OFF UNTO THIS STRUCTURE?

>> THAT KIND OF QUESTION THAT MAKES ME CRAZY.

(LAUGHTER) >>Yunji: WHY IS THAT?

>> I'M SORRY.

BECAUSE REVISITING OF HISTORY, THAT SAYS WHAT IF, FALSE EQUIVALENT.

BUT TO REGROUP,.

>>Daryl: DO YOU AGREE WITH WHAT JON IS SAYING THAT IT IS BETTER FOR THE SETTLERS BUT NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE NATIVE POPULATION?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT WAY TO THINK OF IT.

AND I THINK AFTER RECENTLY, I DID A BOOK ON SOCIAL WORK EVOLUTION OF SOCIAL WORK AND SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT IN HAWAII.

AND REALLY CLEAR FROM THE PROCESSES THAT QUEEN LILI'UOKALANI CHILDREN'S CENTER REMARKABLY LED THROUGH THE PERSON OF PINKY THOMPSON AND OTHER PEOPLE, OF ADDRESSING THE WAY IN WHICH COLONIZATION WAS NOT GOOD FOR HAWAIIANS AND HAWAIIANS WERE BEING SYSTEMATICALLY AT THAT POINT, IN THE HISTORY, WE NEED TO REALIZE THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE HISTORIES.

SUBCOMMUNITIES HAVE HISTORIES.

AND THEY'RE ALL DOING SOMETHING INTERTWINING AND DOING SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

HAWAIIANS CONVERGED ON HONOLULU TO A SIGNIFICANT EXTENT BECAUSE OF THE TAKEOVER OF THE PLANTATION AND COLLAPSE OF THE AGRICULTURAL SYSTEM THAT RESULTED.

AND WITH STATEHOOD, AND RISING ECONOMY, AND DEVELOPMENT, AND PARTICULARLY HOUSING COSTS AND RENTAL COSTS, HAWAIIANS WERE SO SYSTEMATICALLY BEING DECENTRALIZED OUT OF HONOLULU, AND I REALIZED WHERE MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

WHICH ARE STUMBLED IN THE DOOR BECAUSE I WAS FIELD BOY TO WAIANAE AND NANAKULI ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HAD MOVED OUT HONOLULU, BECAUSE THEY ALL NEED SOME AIR TO BREATHE AND SOME LOW COST HOUSING.

AND SENSE OF COMMUNITY THERE.

SO I AGREE WITH JON'S OBSERVATION.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO BACK UP AND SAY, COLONIZATION IS JUST UNIFORMLY NOT GOOD FOR PEOPLE.

(LAUGHTER).

>> INTERESTING.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS I'M SO DELIGHTED WITH SEEING OURSELVES, SEEING BETTER.

WE SEE THIS DENOMINATOR.

AND WE SEE THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT AMERICANS REALLY DO NEED TO COME TO TERMS WITH.

THIS ISN'T JUST AN IDLE CONVERSATION.

>>Yunji: WE TO ENCOURAGE YOU AFTER THIS PROGRAM TO WATCH THE FILM.

LIVE ON OUR WEBSITE FOR SOME TIME.

IF YOU HAPPEN TO MISS IT OR WANT TO SHARE WITH SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY.

TONIGHT AT 8:30, AIRS ON ON PBS HAWAII.ORG.

WHAT DO YOU THINK LESSONS ARE GOING FORWARD?

>> ONLY HAVE ABOUT 3 MINUTES LEFT.

WE HAVE TO WRAP THINGS UP.

WHAT DO YOU THINK LESSONS ARE GOING FORWARD IN A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS, MOVIE LUKE THAT, EXHIBIT LIKE THE ONE YOU SAW?

WHAT DO WE NEED TO TAKE AWAY?

>> YOU NEED TO DO RESEARCH.

WHAT I WAS LEARNING ABOUT HAWAII, NAINOA THOMPSON WENT TO LEARN ABOUT NAVIGATION.

WHAT CONNECTS US, WHAT DISCONNECTS US, THAT SET ME ON A JOURNEY READING ACTUAL ACCOUNTS OF ALL THE EXPLORERS THAT WENT THROUGH THE PACIFIC.

DUTCH, THE BASQUE, SPANISH, THE BRITISH.

AND IT JUST HAS OPENED MY EYES AND YOU JUST DEVELOP A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING.

APPRECIATION FOR WHAT WENT ON BACK THERE FOR THE NATIVE PEOPLES, NOT A GOOD STORY.

USE THE EXHIBITS.

USE THE FILM.

USE THIS CONVERSATION TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND LOOK THE ORIGINAL SOURCES.

SO YOU AREN'T READING THROUGH FILTERS AND GETTING A STORIED PICTURE.

>>Yunji: STARTED THIS CONVERSATION WHAT WERE YOU LEARNING IN HISTORY.

WHAT ARE THE LESSONS YOU HOPE PEOPLE TAKE FROM THAT DISCUSSION, AND FILM GOING FORWARD?

>> WANT TO REITERATE WHAT TOM SAID.

COLONIZATION IS BAD.

OCCUPATION IS BAD.

WE'RE SEEING THESE THINGS PLAY OUT CURRENTLY IN PALESTINE.

HORRIFIC.

AWFUL.

AWFUL FOR EVERYONE.

AWFUL FOR POPULATIONS IN THE COMMUNITY.

AWFUL FOR JEWS AND AWFUL FOR ARABS.

BETTER WAY FOR HUMAN BEINGS TO COEXIST.

THE PLANET IS SPEAKING TO US.

>> TALK ABOUT COLONIZATION, WHOLE PROCESS OF DECOLONIZATION WILL TAKE GENERATIONS TO DECOLONIZE OUR MINDS AND ATTITUDES.

>> WE STILL HAVE COLONIAL MENTALITY.

THE MESS WITH NETHERLANDS PERPETRATED BECAUSE PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE MISEDUCATED.

CONTINUE TO BE COLONIZED IN THEIR MINDS.

WHOLE PROCESS OF DECOLONIZATION WILL TAKE GENERATIONS.

SO YES, I AGREE.

COLONIZATION IS BAD.

>>Yunji: WHAT DO YOU HOPE PEOPLE TAKE AWAY FROM WATCHING FILM THAT YOU MADE?

>> WELL, THAT THEY CAN RELATE IT TO THIS CONVERSATION I HOPE THAT PEOPLE CAN RELATE IT TO SOMETHING THAT WE'RE WORKING ON AND VETTING ON THIN AIR CALLED 1898 PROJECT, WHICH IS ONGOING DIALOGUE PROJECT, AND SOME OF THE UNIVERSITY PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON GETTING BEHIND IT AND SO ON AND SO ON.

>>Yunji: WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

UNFORTUNATELY.

WERE HE OUT OF THE TIME.

FLIES BY.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT, AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS, JON OSORIO, DEAN OF THE HAWAIINUIAKEA SCHOOL OF HAWAIIAN KNOWLEDGE, AND CATHERINE CRUZ FROM HAWAII PUBLIC RADIO, UH ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR VINA LANZONA, AND WRITER AND PRODUCER TOM COFFMAN, WHOSE FILM NATION WITHIN AIRS RIGHT AFTER THIS.

NO INSIGHTS NEXT WEEK BECAUSE OF THANKSGIVING, BUT WE’LL BE BACK THE WEEK AFTER.

THE HOLIDAYS ARE USUALLY A TIME FOR GIVING WITH MANY NONPROFITS NEEDING COMMUNITY SUPPORT, BUT OVER THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS, THERE’S BEEN A DROP IN DONATIONS DUE TO HURDLES LIKE THE PANDEMIC AND INFLATION, AND WITH THE NEED SO GREAT FOLLOWING THE LAHAINA TRAGEDY, WE’LL HEAR FROM LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS ABOUT THE CHALLENGE OF GIVING.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M YUNJI DENIES FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

ALOHA!

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