THIS YEAR ON THE MIND OF LAWMAKERS.

DOZEN OF MEASURES AND BILLS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED.

FINDING CORRUPTION AND INCREASINGER TRANSPARENCY AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

WHAT MEASURES BECOME LAW.

CAN REGULATE THEMSELVES WHEN IT COMES TO CORRUPTION?

JOIN THE CONVERSATION NEXT ON PBS HAWAII.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M DARYL HUFF.

MOTIVATED BY THE VERY PUBLIC EXAMPLES OF CORRUPTION BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS IN RECENT YEARS, THE HAWAII STATE HOUSE CREATED THE COMMISSION TO IMPROVE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT.

ITS JOB WAS TO REVIEW AND ASSESS EXISTING STATE LAWS, ATTITUDES, AND PRACTICES THAT LEAD TO CORRUPT BEHAVIOR AND OFFER SOLUTIONS.

IN DECEMBER 2022 THE COMMISSION PRESENTED FINDINGS AND 31 SPECIFIC PROPOSALS FOCUSED ON TRANSPARENCY, ACCOUNTABILITY, AND ETHICAL BEHAVIOR.

IN ADDITION TO THE COMMISSION PROPOSALS, MORE THAN 100 MEASURES WITH THE SAME GOALS ARE ON LAWMAKERS DESKS THIS SESSION.

TONIGHT, WE DISCUSS THE PROSPECTS FOR REAL CHANGE.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL US OR CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS.

WE ALSO ENCOURAGE YOU TO GET INVOLVED WITH THE CONVERSATION ON OUR FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW TO OUR GUESTS.

DAN FOLEY SERVED AS THE CHAIR OF THE COMMISSION TO IMPROVE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT.

A LONG‑TIME CIVIL RIGHT ADVOCATE AND ATTORNEY, HE RETIRED AS A JUDGE FROM THE HAWAII INTERMEDIATE COURT OF APPEALS IN 2016 AND IS CURRENTLY A NON‑RESIDENT JUSTICE IN THE PALAU SUPREME COURT.

SENATOR KARL RHOADS HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF THE SENATE FOR THE LAST SIX YEARS SERVING THE PEOPLE OF PUUNUI, NUUANU, PACIFIC HEIGHTS, LILIHA, CHINATOWN AND DOWNTOWN.

HE IS CHAIR OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND PRIOR TO THE SENATE, SPENT 10 YEARS IN THE STATE HOUSE.

JANET MASON IS CO‑CHAIR OF THE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE FOR THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS.

SHE WORKED FOR MORE THAN 17 YEARS AS INSURANCE RISK MANAGER AND CONSULTANT.

SHE ALSO SERVED ON THE COMMISSION TO IMPROVE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT.

AND POLITICAL ANALYST COLIN MOORE.

HE IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE PUBLIC POLICY CENTER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA.

I WANT TO THROW OUT QUESTION OUT THAT I TALKED ABOUT THE INTRODUCTION.

DO YOU FEEL IN YOUR EXAMINATION OF THE CORRUPTION IN HAWAII, THAT'S A FEW BAD APPLES OR TO WE HAVE AN ACTUAL CULTURE IN OUR GOVERNMENT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED?

>> YOU KNOW, THAT TESTIMONY CAME TO US FROM RANDY ROTH, FORMER LAW PROFESSOR, AUTHOR BROKEN TRUST.

TESTIFIED BEFORE THE COMMISSION THAT HE BELIEVES THERE IS A CULTURE OF CORRUPTION.

CULTURE OF CORRUPTION AS HE DEFINES IT ISN'T NECESSARILY A BRIBERY CASE.

FRAUD CASE, PAY TO PLAY WHERE PEOPLE LOOK THE OTHER WAY, FAVORITISM, NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD.

JUST THE WAY THE BOYS DO BUSINESS.

PUBLIC THINK IT'S WIDESPREAD.

HOUSE ASKED MY COMMISSION LOOK AT THE LAWS CONCERNING CAMPAIGN SPENDING ETHICS AND LOBBYING.

RECOGNIZE LOSS IN PUBLIC TRUST.

ADDRESS THOSE LAWS AND TRY TO RESTORE PUBLIC TRUST.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS.

YOUR COLLEAGUE WAS ONE OF THE ONES KALANI ENGLISH GOT CONVICTED OF TAKE BRIBES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT QUESTION, BAD APPLES CULTURE STUFF.

HARD TO DENY WE'VE ON A BAD STREAK STATE AS A WHOLE.

NOT JUST THE LEGISLATURE.

AND YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE LITANY OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CAUGHT IN OUT RIGHT CORRUPTION FROM THE LIQUOR COMMISSION TO THE LEGISLATURE TO THE CITY COUNCIL, ON AND ON.

>>Daryl: WE ONLY HAVE AN HOUR.

>> I NEVER TALKED FOR ON HOUR IN MY LIFE.

NOT REALLY A PROBLEM.

I DO THINK IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR FOR THE PUBLIC TO SAY, JUST SAY, THEY'RE ALL THE SAME.

THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME.

MY EXPERIENCE, BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR QUITE A WHILE NOW.

VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND THEY DON'T, PLAY INSIDE THE RULES.

>>Daryl: JANET FROM LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ABOUT THAT QUESTION.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW BAD APPLES FOR SURE.

TO ME, THE CULTURE IS VULNERABLE OR WEAK.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE COMMISSIONER WAS TRYING TO SHORE UP.

AS WELL AS VERY SPECIFIC ACTION CHANGES.

>>Daryl: WHEN YOU SAY CULTURE IS WEAK, WEAK IN WHAT WAYS?

>> WELL, THERE'S PLENTY OF ENCOURAGEMENT OF SECRECY AND DOING BUSINESS OUT OF PUBLIC EYE.

LEGISLATURE IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE SUNSHINE LAW.

>>Daryl: FOLLOW UP WITH THE QUESTION, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CORRUPTION IN THIS COMMUNITY, THE LEGISLATURE, LEGISLATORS THAT WERE CONVICTED TWO LEGISLATORS OUT OF 76.

AWFUL LOT OF THESE OTHER CASES OUTSIDE THE LEGISLATURE.

BUREAUCRATS, POLICE CHIEFS AND PROSECUTORS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ALL OF SAYS ABOUT THE CULTURE THAT WE HAVE AND IS IT THE BAD APPLES?

HOW DOES THAT FIT TOGETHER?

>> SORT OF AGREE WITH WHAT JANET WAS SAYING.

CULTURE OF COZINESS THAT PARTLY IS JUST BECAUSE WE'RE A SMALL STATE AND LEGISLATURE BEEN DOMINATED BY ONE PARTY REALLY SINCE STATEHOOD.

SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT OPPOSITION PARTY WHICH OFTEN DOES A GOOD JOB FORCING ISSUES INTO THE OPEN.

A LOT OF LEGISLATORS GET ELECTED VERY EASILY SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT VERY HARD TO WIN RE‑ELECTION.

VERY FEW INCUMBENTS LOSE.

THAT CULTURE BREEDS CERTAIN AMOUNT OF COMPLACENCY.

CORRUPTION ISSUES.

BLEEDS INTO SOFT CORRUPTION.

WHERE IT STARTS.

ADMINISTRATIVE STATE.

WHERE THERE'S A BIG PROBLEM.

CERTAINLY AGREE WITH CYNTHIA RHODES A LOT OF LEGISLATORS FOLLOW RULES.

VERY ETHICAL PEOPLE.

WORK HARD FOR A JOB WHERE THEY MAKE LITTLE MONEY.

THERE ARE THOSE TEMPTATION.

BIGGER BUREAUCRATIC AGENCIES, A LOT OF JUST STRAIGHT OUT BRIBERY.

KALANI ENGLISH IS UNIQUE NATIONALLY.

TELL MY STUDENTS THAT KIND OF DOLLARS FOR VOTES HANDING SOMEONE CASH TO VOTE IN A CERTAIN WAY EXTREMELY UNUSUAL.

SOFTER FORMS OF CORRUPTION WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT RELATE TO CAMPAIGN FINANCE.

>>Daryl: IN TERMS WEAKNESS OF THE CULTURE.

WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM?

WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT HAPPENING?

BECAUSE WE'RE THIS ISLAND STATE WHERE KNOWS EACH OTHER?

I HAD A CONVERSATION RECENTLY WITH ONE IN GOVERNMENT EMPLOYMENT, AND WE TALKED ABOUT CONFLICTS VERSUS COMPLIMENTARY RELATIONSHIPS.

SO MANY RELATIONSHIPS WHERE PEOPLE JUST KNOW EACH OTHER AND EASY JUST TO SAY, THAT'S A GOOD CONNECTION YOU HAVE AS OPPOSED TO A CONFLICT.

>> YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BISHOP ESTATE CONTROVERSY THAT WENT ON FOR YEARS.

PEOPLE PRETTY MUCH KNEW ABOUT IT.

DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT UNTIL THE BROKEN TRUST EDITORIAL CAME OUT.

IN THE 80s WE HAD FAT BOY OKUDA CORRUPTION IN THE JUDICIARY.

>>Daryl: STATE HEAD OF THE STATE SHERIFF.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WHISTLEBLOWER DEPUTY SHERIFF FIRED.

NO LAWYER WOULD TAKE HIS CASE.

I TOOK HIS CASE.

SUED JUDICIARY AND HELPED RIGHT THE FIRST WHISTLEBLOWER OUT.

MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN EXCEPTION OF FEW PEOPLE TO STAND UP, PROFESSOR ROSS THEORY, MOST PEOPLE JUST WANT TO GO ALONG AND GET ALONG, NOT ROCK THE BOAT, NOT STAND OUT AND ALSO, AFRAID OF RETALIATION.

IF THEY REPORT WHAT THEY CONSIDER TO BE MISCONDUCT OR ABUSE IN OFFICE.

>>Daryl: DO YOU SENSE SENATE RHOADS PEOPLE ARE SO AFRAID OF RETALIATION IN THIS CASE, AFRAID TO COME FORWARD ON THINGS?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THEY ARE.

DON'T THINK IT HAS TO DO WITH THE LEGISLATURE OR THE GOVERNMENT SO MUCH.

I SEE IT IS WITH NEIGHBORHOOD PROBLEMS.

SOMEONE KNOWS THAT THEIR NEXTDOOR NEIGHBOR IS FIRING OFF BOTTLE ROCKETS.

>> DON'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING TO ANYBODY.

POINT ABOUT ONE PARTY STATE FOR SINCE THE 56, '54 REVOLUTION.

I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE.

IF YOU LOOK AT WHO WOULD MOST LIKELY REREPLACE DEMOCRATS.

REPUBLICANS.

>> PARTY EMBRACED CORRUPTION IT'S TRUMP REPUBLICANS.

INTERNALLY TO THE PARTY, THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS AND EVERYBODY TONIGHT GET ALONG.

BECAUSE YOUR ENEMY IS NEVER THE REPUBLICAN.

REPUBLICAN IS IRRELEVANT.

IT'S OTHER DEMOCRATS.

SO I THINK CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT, BETWEEN PARTIES, OFTEN BETWEEN PARTIES, AREN'T RELEVANT HERE.

CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE INTERNAL.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD OVERLOOK FINANCIAL INSECURITY EITHER.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY, IT'S HARD ON THE $99,000 A YEAR SALARY THAT LEGISLATORS ARE PAID TO SUPPORT A FAMILY.

I DON'T THINK THAT HAVE THE MOTIVATION BRIBERY CASE COMPLETELY.

WITH ANY KIND OF CORRUPTION, YOU NEED A MOTIVE AND OPPORTUNITY, COMMISSION TO TRY TO DEAL WITH THIS DIRECTLY.

BY EXTENDING ORIGINAL CHARGE WHICH WAS TO LOOK AT LOBBYING CAMPAIGN FINANCING AND ETHICS.

AND ALSO LOOKED AT FRAUD AND VOTER ELECTION AND TRANSPARENCY AS A PACKAGE.

NOT JUST ONE SINGLE THING THAT NEEDS ATTENTION.

>>Daryl: RIGHT.

WE DON'T GET PAID 99 THOUSAND.

72 I THINK.

RAISED RECENTLY.

I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY.

DEFINITELY NOT 99.

>>Daryl: YOU JUST PROPOSED THAT WE HAVE A FULL‑TIME LEGISLATURE?

TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK IF YOU DID A FULL‑TIME LEGISLATURE, PROBABLY HAVE TO PAY PEOPLE MORE.

PROPOSAL I PUT FORTH WAS FULL‑TIME LEGISLATURE AND NO OUTSIDE INCOME.

SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PERCENTAGE IS RIGHT NOW.

QUITE A NUMBER OF US HAVE SECOND JOBS.

SYSTEM SET UP THAT WAY.

SUPPOSED TO BE CITIZENS LEGISLATURE, COME INTO SESSION FOR FOUR MONTHS.

>> THEN DO ANOTHER JOB.

THING THAT I THINK IS FLAW THIS THAT IS THERE AREN'T THAT MANY OTHER JOBS WILLING TO PART WITH YOU FOR FOUR MONTHS.

AND SOME PEOPLE MANAGE TO DO IT.

BUT IT'S HARDER THAN IT LOOKS.

>>Daryl: SOMETIMES EMPLOYERS HAVE AN INTEREST IN THE LEGISLATURE YOU MIGHT HAVE.

>> ALWAYS AN ISSUE.

>>Daryl: DID I GET A QUESTION, HOW MANY MEMBERS OF THE PANEL ARE IN FAVOR OF PUBLIC FINANCIAL OF ELECTIONS.

FROM TOM IN WAIKIKI.

THAT BRINGS UP THE WHOLE CAMPAIGN SPENDING CAMPAIGN FUNDRAISING.

HOW MUCH WORK WILL BE ASK COLIN.

>> HOW MUCH WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE TO CHANGE, DO YOU THINK, OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCING SYSTEM BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT TERM LIMITS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENS IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT GETTING ELECTION, BEING RE‑ELECTED EASILY TO THE SAME SEAT ALL TIME, YOU CAN ACCUMULATE TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CAMPAIGN MONEY.

SO WHERE DO YOU THINK WE DO NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE SYSTEM AND IN RESPONSE OF TOM'S QUESTION, WHAT ABOUT PUBLIC FINANCING OF ELECTIONS?

>> SURE.

I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THIS.

BRIEF THAT I WROTE FOR UHERO SHOULD COME OUT NEXT WEEK.

REALLY EXPLORE THE DIFFERENT FORMS OF PUBLIC FINANCING AND HAWAII IS MANDATED TO HAVE PARTIAL FORM OF PUBLIC FINANCING IN THE 78 CONSTITUTION.

ONE OF THE VERY FIRST STATES TO START THAT.

FORTUNATELY, CURRENTS SYSTEM REALLY DOESN'T WORK.

VERY, VERY FEW CANDIDATES WOULD ACCEPT ANY FORM OF PUBLIC FINANCING.

PARTIALLY BECAUSE OR IN LARGE PART BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD ACCEPT THAT MONEY AND COME ANYWHERE CLOSE TO RUNNING COMPETITIVE CAMPAIGN.

TO RUN A COMPETITIVE CAMPAIGN, YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY.

THIS HAWAII, QUITE A BIT OF MONEY.

MAYBE AROUND $50,000 TO RUN FOR HOUSE.

SENATOR RHOADS IS INTRODUCED A GREAT BILL THAT I FULLY SUPPORT, THAT WILL PROVIDE FULL PUBLIC FINANCING.

GET A CERTAIN NUMBER OF QUALIFYING DONATIONS AND THEN STATE WOULD GRANT YOU THE REST OF THE AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU NEED TO RUN.

THIS WORKS VERY WELL IN MAINE AND ARIZONA AND CONNECTICUT.

OTHER THINGS YOU COULD CONSIDER TOO.

NEW YORK CITY AND NEW YORK STATE SUPERMATCH PROGRAM.

FOR EXAMPLE, YOU DONATE TEN DOLLARS FOR THE CAMPAIGN.

NEW YORK CITY MATCHES THAT TIMES 8.

THAT WOULD MEAN GETTING NINETY DOLLARS YOUR CAMPAIGN.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, WHAT DIFFERENCE DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD MAKE.

>> CAMPAIGN FINANCING PART IS MOST ‑‑ THE GEEK I AM, MOST INTERESTING PART OF IT.

OTHER CORRUPTIONS THAT WE SEEN REALLY CUT AN DRY.

NO QUESTION.

THAT'S JUST, NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.

NO MATTER WHAT SYSTEM.

NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.

WITH CAMPAIGN FINANCING, GETS BLURRY BECAUSE THEIR RACE ANYWHERE YOU HAVE TWO THINGS.

OBVIOUS THING.

MORE VOTES THAN YOUR OPPONENT.

HOW DO YOU GET THOSE VOTES?

FIRST RAN FOR THE HOUSE IN '06, RAN IN DISTRICT.

>> LIVE IN A HIGHRISE.

PROBABLY 60% OF THE POPULATIONS IN IN HIGHRISE.

>> YOU DON'T TALK TO PEOPLE UNLESS YOU MAIL TO THEM.

ONLY YOU CAN GET TO THEM.

HAVE TO HAVE MONEY DO THAT.

LOOKING AT A CAMPAIGN, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT TWO THINGS.

LOOK AT HOW VOTERS RESPONDING TO ME AND CAN I KEEP ENOUGH DONORS ON MY SIDE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH STUFF.

WITH PUBLIC FINANCING, ONCE YOU REACH THE TRIGGER POINT, HAVE TO GET SMALL DONATIONS FROM QUITE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN YOUR DISTRICT IS THE PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, THEN YOU GET ENOUGH MONEY YOU'RE GOING TO BE COMPETITIVE IN A RACE.

DON'T HAVE TO LOOK OVER YOUR SHOULDER AT DONORS.

DONORS YOU'RE LOOKING OVER YOUR SHOULDER ARE TAXPAYORS.

THAT'S WHY IT'S ADVANTAGEOUS.

>>Daryl: JUDGE, IN YOUR WORK WITH THE COMMISSION, WHERE DID YOU FOLKS COME DOWN ON THE CAMPAIGN FINANCING?

>> WE RECOMMENDED EXPANDING IT.

WE DID NOT PROPOSE A BILL FOR FULL PUBLIC FINANCING SENATOR RHOADS IS, BUT WE SUPPORT THAT.

ONLY REASON WHY WE DIDN'T PROPOSE A BILL LIKE HIS, WE DIDN'T KNOW IF THE LEGISLATURE WAS WILLING TO GO FOR IT WITH THE MONEY AND SO WE TOOK A MORE MODEST EXPAND PUBLIC FINANCING WITH THE NOTE, IF THE LEGISLATURE IS MORE BOTH, I DID SUBMIT TESTIMONY IN SUPPORT OF THIS BILL ON BEHALF OF THE COMMISSION.

I THINK I WOULD AGREE WITH PROFESSOR MOORE.

THAT'S A BIG STEP FORWARD.

IF THIS BILL CAME.

>>Daryl: WHAT IS YOUR THOUGHT ABOUT PUBLIC FINANCING?

>> LEAGUE SUPPORTS FULL PUBLIC FINANCING.

>> WE HAVE FOR A LONG TIME.

AND THIS WOULD BE A GAME CHANGER IN TERMS OF ATMOSPHERE AROUND POLITICS IN HAWAII.

AND YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, PEOPLE ARE PAYING INDIRECTLY FOR CAMPAIGNS.

SO YOU KNOW.

>>Daryl: DESCRIBE WHY YOU SAY THAT.

>> WELL, THE COST OF SUPPORTING THE CANDIDATES IS SORT OF BUILT INTO THEIR LIFESTYLE AND WHAT THEY SPEND THE MONEY ON.

CAMPAIGNS.

AND I JUST THINK IT'S TIME TO BRING IN.

>>Daryl: SO IT SOUNDS LIKE I WANT TO UNDERSTAND IT.

IT IS A BIG PROPOSAL.

SUPPOSE YOU DO PUBLIC FINANCING, WHICH MEANS THAT TAXPAYORS ESSENTIALLY ARE GOING TO BE PAYING FOR THE CAMPAIGNS OF THE CANDIDATES.

PROBABLY BRING A LOT MORE CANDIDATES IN BECAUSE THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO GET RUN A CAMPAIGN VERSUS INCUMBENT WHO GOT A BIG PILE OF MONEY.

ALSO, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS BECAUSE SO BEHOLDEN TO THESE CAMPAIGN DONORS, TAXPAYORS ARE ALREADY SPENDING MORE MONEY THAN THEY MIGHT BECAUSE THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY ON THESE.

>> IMPRESSION.

I DON'T HAVE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE ABOUT IT.

IT WOULD BE SOME RELIEF FOR EVERYBODY.

>> CERTAINLY RELIEF FOR THE CANDIDATES WHO WOULDN'T HAVE TO SPEND THEIR TIME FUNDRAISING.

>> OTHER BIG THING THAT CAME OUT OF THE COMMISSION, ONE OF THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL DIVIDED VOTES ON TERM LIMITS.

DAVID AND HIS COLUMN THIS WEEKEND ACTUALLY DESCRIBED THAT ADVOCATING FOR IT VERY WELL.

GOT TO FLUSH THE SYSTEM OUT.

ALSO POINTED OUT THE FACT THAT IF YOU'RE JUST KEEP RUNNING FOR ELECTION, BUILD UP ALL OF THIS MONEY.

THEN NOBODY FEELS LIKE THEY CAN GO AGAINST YOU.

TALK ABOUT WHY TERM LIMITS WAS PROPOSED AND WHY THERE WAS SOME PUSH BACK ON IT.

>> IT WAS THE MOST DIVISIVE PROPOSAL THAT THE COMMISSION PUT FORWARD.

COMMISSION JUST BARELY PUT IT FORWARD BY 4‑3.

WE PROPOSED A 16‑YEAR TERM LIMIT WHICH ALSO MADE PEOPLE THAT SUPPORT TERM LIMITS UPSET.

TOO LONG.

16 YEARS.

WE FELT WAS SOMEWHAT OF A COMPROMISE.

FORESEE LEGISLATURE DIFFERENT THAN THE COUNTY COUNCILS, GOVERNOR AND THE MAYOR OFFICES.

POWER MORE CONCENTRATED, COUNTY COUNCIL, UNICAMERAL SMALLER MEMBERS.

LEGISLATURE, 72 MEMBERS, TWO HOUSES.

8 YEARS IN EACH HOUSE.

TESTIMONY WAS GIVEN TO US IN THE LARGE TURNOVER WE'VE HAD MEMBERSHIP AND BOTH HOUSES IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, SHOULD BE UP TO THE VOTERS.

SHOULDN'T BE ARBITRARY.

ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE PUT IT FORWARD ONE OF OUR MANDATES IS TO HELP RESTORE PUBLIC TRUST.

PUBLIC REALLY WANTS THIS.

WANTED TO OPPORTUNITY VOTE ON IT.

WE DID PROPOSE IT.

BUT IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S NOT MOVING IN THE HOUSE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S BEEN A HEARING YET IN THE SENATE.

I'M NOT REAL OPTIMISTIC RIGHT NOW.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN OPPOSED TO TERM LIMITS FOR THE LEGISLATURE.

OPPOSED TO THEM FOR CITY COUNCIL TOO.

FOR EXECUTIVE BRANCH I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

BECAUSE YOU'RE TRYING TO DRINK FROM A FIRE HYDRANT.

8 YEARS.

CAN'T COULD IT PHYSICALLY.

BURN OUT.

REASON I'M OPPOSED TO TRANSFERS OF POWER FROM THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH THE TO EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

YOU KNOW, FIRST THREE OR FOUR YEARS THAT YOU'RE A LEGISLATOR, LIKE MOST ANY COMPLICATED JOBS YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

AND BY THE TIME YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, FOR ESPECIALLY FOR SHORTER TERM, PROPOSALS, WASN'T PARTICULARLY SHORT ONE.

YOU'RE JUST GETTING IN STRIDE.

YOU'RE ACROSS THE TABLE ALMOST ALWAYS WITH CAREER CIVIL SERVANTS.

I ALMOST USE THE WORD BUREAUCRAT.

NOT MAJORITY.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE BUREAUCRATS TO RUN MODERN SOCIETY.

THEY KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO.

BEEN AROUND FOREVER.

NO TERM LIMITS ON THEM.

RECYCLE THROUGH DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATIONS.

WE JUST BEEN OVERWHELMED, OUTGUNNED AND OTHER POINT ON THE MONEY SIDE OF IT, STUDIES INDICATE I THINK THAT MONEY IS MOST IMPORTANT IN YOUR FIRST RACE.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN NOBODY KNOWS WHO ARE YOU.

>> ONCE YOU'VE BEEN THERE A WHILE, MONEY BECOMES LESS AND LESS IMPORTANT.

GET TO THE POINTS WHERE YOU TELL YOUR DONORS, YOU DON'T THIS THINK THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I'M GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY.

>>Daryl: DIDN'T JUST MAKE A ARGUMENT AGAINST YOUR OWN PUBLIC FINANCING BILL?

>> NO.

NOT AT ALL.

FIRST RACE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

PUBLICLY FINANCE FIRST RACE, THEN YES, IT'S EASIER AFTER THAT.

BUT YOU CAN STILL USE THE SAME PROCESS.

>>Daryl: OPPONENTS RUNNING AGAINST YOU WOULD HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO ACTUALLY RUN AGAINST YOU.

>> YES.

WELL, YOU KNOW, STARTED, ALMOST WENT DOWN THAT THREAD COUPLE MINUTES AGO.

>> I'M NOT SO SURE IT'S GOING TO BE THAT EASY UNDER THE PROPOSALS WE HAVE TO GET STARTED.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR HOUSE RACE, YOU NEED YOU THINK WE CHANGED IT TO 125 $5 DONATIONS.

NEVER RUN FOR HOUSE.

MIGHT KNOW A FEW PEOPLE.

125, $5 DONATION, I DON'T KNOW.

IF I WERE STARTING OVER AGAIN, THAT WOULD BE THE WAY I WOULD GO I THINK THAT WOULD BE MY BETTER SHOT.

THAT IS NOT FOREGONE CONCLUSION FOR NEW HOUSE MEMBER.

>>Daryl: COLIN MOORE ON TERM LIMITS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK EFFECT WOULD BE?

>> I OPPOSE TERM LIMITS.

I RESPECT, UNDERSTAND WHY THE COMMISSION PROPOSED THOSE.

YOU DO HEAR A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR THE TERM LIMITS IN THE COMMUNITIES.

A LOT OF STATE DOES HAVE TERM LIMIT.

>> A LOT OF STUDIES ON STATES WITH TERM LIMITS.

NO EVIDENCE THOSE STATES PRODUCE BETTER PUBLIC POLICY, LOWER LEVELS OF CORRUPTION, WHAT I DO THINK THERE IS EVIDENCE IS LEGISLATURE BECOMES SOMEWHAT LESS PROFESSIONALIZE BECAUSE YOU HAVE MORE AMATEUR LEGISLATORS.

>> SOME PEOPLE THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

THEY WANT A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE WITH MORE TURNOVERS.

THAT IS A GOAL.

THAT DOES SEEM TO BE ACCOMPLISHED TO SOME DEGREE.

BY TERM LIMITS.

IT DOESN'T CREATE BETTER PUBLIC POLICY.

NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT.

>> AND WE ALWAYS SAY IN POLITICAL SCIENCE, POWER ABHORS A VACUUM.

SOMETHING ELSE IS GOING TO FILL THAT.

LEGISLATORS BECOME LESS PROFESSIONALIZED, SOMEONE ELSE STEPS IN.

EXECUTIVE BRANCH BENEFITS.

>>Daryl: AND LOBBISTS.

>> LOBBYISTS BENEFIT.

BECAUSE LOBBYISTS, GOOD ONES, KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE.

MOST LEGISLATORS RELY ON THEM IN BILLS, LAY OF THE LAND.

END STORY HERE IS IT DOESN'T PRODUCE BETTER PUBLIC POLICY.

HAVEN'T HAD STUDIES THAT DEMONSTRATE THAT.

>>Daryl: JANET GET TO LAST CHANCE.

>> LEAGUE OPPOSED TERM LIMITS.

VERY POPULAR IDEA.

BUT TERM LIMITS, NO EVIDENCE TERM LIMITS PREVENTS CORRUPTION.

>>Daryl: LOOKING AT THE CLOCK.

I WANT TO MOVE QUICKLY DOWN.

BECAUSE I'M STARTING TO GET QUESTIONS IN.

I WANT TO HONOR OUR FOLKS CALLING IN.

WE ARE EFFECT US ON THE LEGISLATURE A LOT.

FOCUSED ON THE LEGISLATURE A LOT IN THIS SHOW.

CORRUPTION OUTSIDE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

I WANT TO GET TO THAT.

CORRUPTION IS OUTSIDE OF THE LEGISLATURE.

QUESTION BY DAN.

BILLS ARE BEING KILLED RATHER THAN ANY CONFLICT OF INTEREST ISSUE BEING FIXED.

THIS ISSUE OF BILLS BEING KILLED, ONE OF YOUR PROPOSALS, EXACTLY WHAT THE POWER OF COMMITTEE CHAIRS IN OUR LEGISLATURE.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THAT POWER IS AND WHY IT MIGHT LEAD TO CORRUPTION.

COMMITTEES OPERATE DIFFERENT.

NOT ALL THE SAME.

DIFFERENT CHAIRS RUN THEIR COMMISSION DIFFERENTLY.

SOME OF THE PROPOSALS AND COMPLAINTS WE GOT FROM THE PUBLIC IS COMMITTEE CHAIR DECIDING NOT TO HEAR A BILL, DEFERRING A BILL, AND NOT EVEN EXPLAINING WHY.

SO SORT OF ONE STEP IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO DEFER A BILL, KILL IT, EXPLAIN WHY, SO AT LEAST PUBLIC.

THERE WAS ALSO PROPOSAL THAT BILLS AREN'T HEARD, TO EXPLAIN WHY.

WELL, THAT IS KIND OF DIFFICULT WHEN YOU SEE ALL THE BILLS THAT ARE INTRODUCED AND REFERRED TO COMMITTEE.

MAY NOT BE PRACTICAL.

SHOWS PUBLIC SENTIMENT.

MAY NOT BE A WHOLE BUNCH OF CORRUPTION IN THE LEGISLATURE.

MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE LEGISLATURE, I'VE BEEN GOING THERE SINCE '84, VERY POSITIVE.

PEOPLE I WORK WITH ARE I RESPECTED.

AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN TREATED FAIRLY WHETHER THEY AGREE OR DISAGREE.

AND NEVER FELT POORLY TREATED.

BUT NOT ALL THE PUBLIC THINKS LIKE I DO.

SO I THINK THE MORE TRANSPARENT THE LEGISLATURE IS IN THE WAY IT OPERATES, THAT'S PUBLIC CAN SEE WHY THEY'RE MAKING DECISIONS, WHY BILLS ARE BEING HEARD, WHY BILLS AREN'T BEING HEARD, WHY BILLS ARE BEING KILLED.

THAT WOULD HELP RESTORE TRUST IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>>Daryl: SENATORS ROADS, I FIND YOU HAVING TO BE THE DEFENDER OF THE LEGISLATURE.

>> THAT'S WHY I WAS HERE.

>>Daryl: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT IN YOUR COMMITTEE?

JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

YOU ARE VERY MUCH GATEKEEPER FOR WHAT ACTUALLY GET PASSED IN THE END.

HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT KIND OF ISSUE?

I SEE YOU THIS MORNING.

WATCHING YOUR HEARING.

I SHOULD SAY, I'M ACTUALLY GOING HAVE A VOTE TO HOLD THE BILL TODAY.

INTERESTING, YOU DO MAKE AN EFFORT TO EXPLAIN WHY YOU ARE DEFERRING MEASURES OR SO ON.

HOW DO YOU HANDLE THAT AS A COMMITTEE CHAIR, HOW DO YOU MAKE THE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HOLD OR NOT HOLD?

HOW MUCH CONSULTATION ARE YOU ABLE TO HAVE WITH YOUR MEMBERS?

>> FOR THE BILLS THAT ACTUALLY DECIDE TO HEAR, MOST COMMITTEE CHAIRS, FEW OF THE SMALLER COMMITTEES WHERE YOU ACTUALLY COULD HEAR EVERY SINGLE BILL.

MOST OF THEM, YOU CAN'T.

>> DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

>> CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

ONE I DECIDED TO HEAR A BILL, TRY TO BE VERY OPEN ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT WE ‑‑ EVEN FROM THINGS LIKE DESCRIBING THE BILL TO BEGINNING OF THE SESSION, I DON'T JUST SAY, SB123.

SB123 WHICH DOES X.

SPELL IT OUT.

THAT WAS NOT COMMON PRACTICE 16 YEARS AGO WHEN I STARTED.

DEFERRAL IS PURELY PREROGATIVE WITHIN THE CHAIR'S POWER.

HOLD IS OLD STYLE OF DOING IT.

USED TO HAVE HOLD VOTES ON EVERYTHING.

WEREN'T GOING TO MOVE A BILL FORWARD, COMMITTEE CHAIR WOULD SAY, LET'S HOLD.

TAKING RESPONSIBILITY ON YOURSELF IS A WAY TO FRANKLY TO PROTECT YOUR MEMBERS, THEY CAN CLAIM THAT WELL, I WOULD HAVE SUPPORTED IT, BUT THE CHAIR DEFERRED IT.

SO I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING.

IF THERE'S A HOLD VOTE, YOU'RE ON THE RECORD.

SO I CAN SEE WHY PEOPLE WOULD WANT THAT.

IT DOES TAKE LONGER.

IT TAKES ANOTHER TEN MINUTES OR EVERY BILL THAT YOU STOP.

WHEN I DEFER SOMETHING, I EXPLAIN WHY I DEFER IT.

I SAID, A, HOUSE BILL MOVING AND ALREADY CROSSED IT.

NO POINT IN US DOING TWO OF THEM.

WAIT FOR THE HOUSE.

BILL JUST ISN'T READY FOR PRIMETIME YET.

DON'T HAVE TO TIME TO FIX IT.

DEFER IT.

MAYBE LOOK AT THIS SUMMER.

I GIVE AN EXPLANATION.

I THINK MOST CHAIRS DO.

PART WHERE IT GETS MURKY FOR OUTSIDERS, IF I JUST DON'T HEAR THE BILL AT ALL.

I DON'T GIVE AN EXPLANATION.

BECAUSE THERE'S SEVERAL HUNDREDS OF THEM USUALLY.

IT'S A TIME ISSUE.

I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT WELL, TWO THINGS THAT ARE FAIR TO SAY.

ONE IS MULTIPLE DIFFERENT REASONS FOR NOT HEARING A BILL.

BUT BOTTOM LINE IS YOU CAN INFER FROM A CHAIR NOT HEARING A BILL, THAT EITHER IT'S NOT A PRIORITY OR THEY'RE OPPOSED TO IT.

>>Daryl: HE MADE AN INTERESTING POINT HIS ROLES AS A CHAIR, MIGHT POSSIBLE THE ROLE THAT HE'S SIGNED UP FOR, HELP PROTECT MEMBERS WHO COULD THEN BLAME THE CHAIR.

I'VE ALWAYS HEARD THAT ONE OF THE REASONS PEOPLE RISE IN LEADERSHIP TO THE TOP, IS THEIR ABILITY TO PROTECT THEIR MEMBERS.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF ACCOUNTABILITY?

IS THERE ACCOUNTABILITY FOR DECISIONS THAT MIGHT NOT BE IN BEST INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THERE'S STILL ACCOUNTABILITY.

I MEAN, CHAIRMAN ARE THERE, CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEES ARE THERE BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID, MEMBER WANT THEM TO BE THERE.

USUALLY, IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE FAIR, THEY'RE GOOD AT PROTECTING THEIR MEMBERS.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S ALWAYS SO TRANSPARENT TO THE PUBLIC.

BUT IT IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES THE LEGISLATURE WORK.

I THINK IN ALL OF THESE REFOR FORMS WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WE DON'T BOG THE LEGISLATURE DOWN SO MUCH WITH PROCEDURE AND TRANSPARENCY.

I BELIEVE ARE IMPORTANT.

THAT THEY CAN'T ACTUALLY GET WHAT THEY NEED TO DO GET DONE.

PUBLIC BETTER POLICY FOR PEOPLE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE CAN'T SPEAK ON THE RECORD.

SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO, NEED A LITTLE BIT OF COVER.

ALL OF THESE THINGS MAKE THE TITUTION OPERATE EFFECTIVELY.

REALLY IMPORTANT POINT, THAT THE COMMISSION MADE, WHAT NOT TO ASK THE LEGISLATURE TO OPERATE UNDER FULL SUNSHINE LAWS.

IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO IMAGINE HOW THAT COULD WORK.

PRODUCE GOOD PUBLIC POLICY COULDN'T HAVE THE FRANK DISCUSSIONS THAT ARE NECESSARY.

IT'S A BALANCE.

I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD MOVE SO FAR IN THE DIRECTION OF REFORM, THAT'S ALL ABOUT PROCEDURE AND NOT ABOUT RESULTS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT IS REALLY WHAT THE PUBLIC CARES ABOUT.

PUBLIC POLICY MATCHES WHAT THEY WANT.

THEY WANT TO SEE THEIR COMMUNITIES APPROVING.

>>Daryl: GO BACK TO JUDGE FOLEY.

WHAT OF ALL THE THINGS YOU PROPOSE, IF YOU COULD ONLY HAVE ONE CHOICE OF SOMETHING THAT'S LEGISLATURE WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE, I'LL GIVE YOU TWO CHOICE.

WHAT WOULD IT BE THAT YOU THINK WOULD HELP AT LEAST WITH THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION?

>> ALL 31.

HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THE PACKAGE.

IT IS A PACKAGE.

BECAUSE EVERY PROPOSAL ENHANCES ANOTHER PROPOSAL.

SOME YOU TAKE THREE FOR EXAMPLE, FALSE CLAIMS.

FALSE STATEMENTS.

AND FRAUD.

ALL THE PROSECUTION NOW AGAINST STATE AND COUNTY OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES ARE DONE BY THE UNITED STATES ATTORNEY.

NOT OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL.

NOT OUR COUNTY.

ATTORNEY GENERAL ALL FOUR COUNTY PROSECUTORS, FBI, ALL TESTIFIED BEFORE OUR COMMITTEE SAYING WE NEED FEDERAL STATUTES, WE NEED STATE STATUTES LIKE THE FEDERAL STATUTE SO WE PROPOSE THOSE.

ALL WITH HELP PROSECUTION.

STATE AND COUNTY WOULD DO WHAT THE FEDERAL DO.

>>Daryl: YOU'RE SAYING THAT PART OF THE WEAKNESS IN OUR SYSTEM IS THAT OUR LAWS AREN'T CLEAR ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO PROSECUTE?

CLEAR NOT ENOUGH.

>> NOT AT COMPREHENSIVE AND NOT AS STRONG.

BILLS, FEDERAL BILLS HAVE MANDATORY SENTENCING.

A LOT OF BILLS WE'RE PROPOSING AND CONTROVERSIAL WOULD HAVE A MANDATORY MINIMUM OF ONE YEAR.

IT WOULDN'T GET A SLAP ON THE WRIST.

YOU WOULDN'T GET PROBATION.

ALL THE STATE AND COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT TESTIFIED SAID, WITH THOSE THREE STATUTES, IT WOULD HELP US INVESTIGATE UNCOVER AND PROSECUTED CORRUPTION.

>>Daryl: I'M HAVING A DEJA VU MOMENT.

WE COVERED MAYOR HARRIS CAMPAIGN FINANCING SCHEMES.

AND THERE WERE MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO WERE CHARGED WITH MAKING EITHER FALSE NAME CONTRIBUTIONS OR BUNDLING CONTRIBUTIONS BAG MAN OR BAG LADIES FOR POLITICIANS AND CONVICTED.

PLEADED GUILTY AND THEY ALL GOT PROBATION MOST OF THEM WERE ABLE TO WASH THEIR CONVICTION OFF OF THEIR RECORDS.

I DON'T THINK IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE JUDGES.

I THINK THERE WAS AN ACTIVE SENSE THAT THIS IS WHITE COLLAR CRIME.

NOT A BIG DEAL.

I THINK YOU DID PASS, HAD ONE OF THOSE BILLS TODAY.

FRAUD BILL.

>> I WILL BE VERY SURPRISED IF WE GET TO THE END OF THIS SESSION WITHOUT HAVING THAT BILL OR SOMETHING LIKE IT PASS.

THERE'S MORE THAN ONE ON THE MOVE.

>>Daryl: HOW WOULD IT CHANGE THE WAY THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN ACT ON A CASE?

>> WELL, CHANGES THE WAY THAT THE STATE AND COUNTY PROSECUTORS CAN ACT.

DOESN'T REALLY CHANGE WHAT THE FEDS COULD DO.

JUST MIMICS FEDERAL SERVICES FRAUD IS THE MAIN ONE.

>>Daryl: ONE OF THE THREE BILLS WE RECOMMEND AND I SUPPORTED THAT BILL.

WELL, IN PARTICULAR, CAMPAIGN FINANCING COMES BACK TO MIND.

THERE'S A SPECIFIC PROVISION, ONE OF THE FRAUD BILLS THAT MAKES IT A FRAUD TO FILE A FALSE STATEMENT.

FALSE FILING.

TO ME, THAT WOULD GREATLY ENHANCE ABILITY OF CAMPAIGN SPENDING COMMISSION TO PROSECUTE FRAUD ON THE CAMPAIGN SPENDING SIDE.

>>Daryl: WE GOT A COUPLE QUESTIONS RIGHT ON THIS POINT.

I WANT TO READ THEM.

ONE SAYS, CORRUPTION CANNOT BE FIXED BY LOCAL PEOPLE.

IT WILL TAKE FEDERAL OVERSIGHT TO FIX IT.

LONGER QUESTION FROM JOHN VIA FACEBOOK.

ONLY FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CAN BE OBJECTIVE ENOUGH TO BUILD CASES.

STATE PUBLIC PROCUREMENT IS RIFE WITH CORRUPTION.

STATE PROCUREMENT PROCESS IS A CESSPOOL OF CORRUPTION.

QUITE A ELABORATE QUESTION.

CONCENTRATION OF MONEY OFTEN EQUALS AT LEAST INFLUENCES POWER.

WE KNOW THIS.

NOTHING GETS DONE UNLESS THE FEDS DO IT.

YOU BROUGHT THIS UP.

IS IT THE FEDS ACCESS TO THESE BETTER LAWS OR MORE STRICT LAWS OR ACTUALLY NEED FOR PEOPLE TO COME FROM OUT OF TOWN TO DO THIS?

>> THERE MAY BE A CASE WHERE OUT OF TOWNER IS BETTER.

I CAN TELL YOU I KNOW THESE COUNTY PROSECUTORS.

I KNOW THE ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THEY WANT THESE TOOLS.

THEY'RE ASKING FOR THESE TOOLS.

ONE OF THE BILLS THAT SENATOR RHOADS JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE FRAUD, THAT WAS FROM THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PACKAGE.

STATE AND COUNTY.

THEY WANT TO DO IT.

THINK WANT TO HAVE THE TOOLS DO IT.

ALSO, PART OF IT IS TO SENDING MESSAGE TO STATE AND COUNTY OFFICIALS AND EMPLOYEES.

>> IF YOU ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL PRACTICES, FRAUD, FALSE STATEMENTS, FALSE CLAIMS, RESOURCES WILL BE THERE.

NOT JUST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

STATE AND COUNTY RESOURCES, TO UNCOVER THAT CORRUPTION, TO PROSECUTE, TO CONVICT, AND YOU WILL GO TO PRISON.

IT WILL NOT BE A SLAP ON THE WRIST.

OUR HOPE IS IF THOSE BILLS PASS, THE MESSAGE IS OUT THERE.

ACT AS A DETERRENT.

PEOPLE TO THINK TWICE.

>>Daryl: LET ME COLIN MOORE.

GIVEN YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH POLITICIANS AND ALSO FROM WHAT SEEN WAY THE BUREAUCRACY OPERATES PROCUREMENT SYSTEM.

YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERT AT PROCUREMENT.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THIS THREAT WOULD CHANGE THE CULTURE AT THE PROCUREMENT LEVEL, CONTRACTING LEVEL, AT THE DISCRETIONARY LEVEL, BUILDING PERMITS.

>> ALL SORTS OF THINGS?

>> I THINK LIKE JUDGE FOLEY SAID, ALL OF THESE BILLS ARE SORT OF PART OF THIS ECOSYSTEM OF REFORM.

SO YES, INCREASING PENALTIES THINK WOULD BE EFFECTIVE.

ONE OF THE PENALTIES WAS A DECADE AWAY FROM PUBLIC OFFICE.

WHICH WOULD BE VERY DAMAGING TO ANY POLITICIAN.

PROCONSUMER, PROBLEM WAS PROCUREMENT PAY TO PLAY WE'VE SEEN FOR AS LONG AT THE ROOT OF PUBLIC CORRUPTION SCANDAL.

PUBLIC FINANCING.

LESS EFFECTIVE GETTING MONEY FROM TAXPAYORS.

DONORS GET A LOT OF ACCESS.

MIGHT GET SPECIAL CONSIDERATION IN A CONTRACT.

THAT MIGHT HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

BUREAUCRATIC LEVEL, THERE'S CULTURAL PROBLEM IN SOME CASES.

CIVIL BEAT RAN A STORY FEW WEEKS AGO ABOUT DPP, SOMEONE WORKING FOR DPP, WHO ALSO HAD A SIDE BUSINESS, SIDE ELECTRICAL BUSINESS.

>>Daryl: THAT WAS SHOCKING.

>> HIS OWN WORK.

AND THAT TO ME SEEMS LIKE MORE A CULTURAL THING.

IN A MORE FUNCTIONAL BUREAUCRACY, SOMEONE WOULD GET WIND OF THAT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON.

>>Daryl: DISCLOSED.

>> YES.

EXACTLY.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

THAT'S NOT ACCEPTABLE.

>> SO THAT, TO MY MIND, ACTUALLY, TAKING THAT CULTURE AND BUREAUCRACY IS GOING TO BE MORE OF A LONGTERM CHALLENGE THAN CHANGING TO WHAT EXTENT THAT ACTUALLY EXISTS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>>Daryl: SENATOR RHOADS, HAD A CONVERSATION, SEE SOMETHING HAPPEN.

WHAT IS THE HOLE IN THE LAW THAT THIS PERSON IS WALKING THROUGH?

DO YOU SEE THIS KIND OF REAL SEA CHANGE COMING FROM HAVING TOUGHER LAWS ON FRAUD, FALSE STATEMENTS AND THAT SORT OF THING?

>> I THINK TWO PARTS TO IT.

SO HAVING THE BETTER LAWS IS PREREQUISITE.

BUT NECESSARY BUT NOT SUFFICIENT.

ACTIVITY.

OTHER PART IS PEOPLE HAVE TO BELIEVE THEY'RE GOING TO GET CAUGHT.

MY, HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN JUDGE HERE.

IN THE HOUSE.

>> 7TH YEAR I GUESS.

AND 8, 9TH YEAR.

SORRY.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS I LEARNED IS THE NOT THE PENALTY THAT MATTERS.

WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO GET CAUGHT.

OTHER ASPECT OF THIS IS HAVING ACTIVE ENFORCEMENT.

LAST YEAR, WE DID THINK IT WAS SENATOR DELA CRUZ IDEA TO GIVE A BEEF UP THE WHITE COLLAR DIVISION IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND THAT SHOULD HELP.

WHEN YOU ADD THOSE TWO THINGS TOGETHER.

TALKING ABOUT CONNECTING DOTS THAT, WOULD HELP.

>>Daryl: JUDGE FOLEY, WHEN YOU COME TO THIS KIND OF THESE ISSUES OF THESE GET CAUGHT AS A JUDGE, LONG TIME PUBLIC SERVANT.

REALLY HIGH PROFILE CORRUPTION SCANDALS, KATHERINE KEALOHA, POLICE CHIEF, THEY KNEW THEY WEREN'T GOING TO GET CAUGHT BECAUSE THEY WERE THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE.

IS CORRUPTION IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AREA AN ISSUE THAT THAT WE NEED TO PAY MORE ATTENTION TO?

>> MORE ATTENTION TO IT.

AND KEALOHAS ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

THEY'RE IN PRISON.

AND KANESHIRO INDICTED.

PRESUMED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

THAT'S THE WHERE THE FEDS REALLY COME IN.

YOU ASKED ONE OF YOUR CALLERS ASKED, TO WE NEED THE FEDS?

THAT'S WHEN WE NEED THEM.

FOR THE LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WHEN STATE AND COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT GOES BAD, THAT'S WHEN WE NEED THE FEDS.

>>Daryl: HOW DO WE IMPROVE CULTURE IN STATE AND COUNTY LAW ENFORCEMENT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO SAY, I WAS JUST ASKED TO DO, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

DO PEOPLE FEEL SAFE?

>> I CAN TELL YOU STEVE ALM, FRIEND, AND I SUPPORTED HIM, WHEN HE RAN FOR CITY COUNCIL, THAT WAS HIS PLATFORM.

RAN FOR PROSECUTOR CITY COUNTY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I SAID.

THAT WAS HIS PLATFORM TO WORK AT HIS OWN OFFICE.

CLEAN OUT HIS OWN OFFICE.

CLEAN OUT GOVERNMENT.

ONE OF THE PROPONENTS ON THESE BILLS, FRAUD, FALSE CLAIM, FALSE STATEMENT.

SUPPORTED LEGISLATURE DID LAST SESSION ON MORE RESOURCES AND STATE AND COUNTY GOVERNMENT.

TO INVESTIGATE AND PROSECUTE.

SO I DO THINK WE HAVE PEOPLE THERE THAT WANT TO DO IT.

>> I THINK BECAUSE OF THESE HIGH PROFILE CORRUPTION CASES, I THINK WE'RE MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION.

WE'LL STILL NEED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK YOU.

HOW STRONG IS OUR WHISTLEBLOWER LAW?

SOMEONE CALLED ME AS A REPORTER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR CIVIL LAWYER, AND SAYS, I WANT TO REPORT MY BOSS, THE CAPTAIN IN THIS DIVISION OR MY BOSS, DIVISION HEAD FOR PROCUREMENT, I WANT TO REPORT THAT HOW A CERTAIN SOMEONE ADVISE THAT PERSON, YOU'LL BE SAFE FROM RETALIATION IF YOU DO THAT?

>> ONE AREA WHERE PEOPLE ARE VERY, VERY AFRAID.

WE DO HAVE WHISTLEBLOWER LAW THAT I THINK JUDGE FOLEY HELPED WRITE.

IT GUARANTEES THAT YOU CAN'T BE RETALIATED AGAINST.

BUT NOBODY BELIEVES IT.

SO I HAVE NEVER LITIGATED ONE.

I DON'T HOW THEY WORK IN PRACTICE.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY COME UP VERY OFTEN BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AFRAID.

I DON'T ‑‑ IF YOU'RE IN THAT POSITION, TALK TO A LAWYER AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT HOW WELL YOU'RE GOING TO BE PROTECTED.

>> >>Daryl: PEOPLE I DID TALK TO ME.

I DID WRITE THE ACT.

SENATOR RHOADS IS CORRECT LEGALLY THEY ARE PROTECTED.

GET ATTORNEY FEES CAN'T BE RETALIATED.

>>Daryl: HOW DO THEY GET TO THE THRESHOLD WHERE THEY'RE GOING PROTECTED.

>> LAW PROTECTS THEM.

PEOPLE USED TO COME TO ME CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER AND EXPOSE SOMETHING.

AND THERE ARE WAYS TO RETALIATE WITHOUT THE FINGER PRINTS BEING THERE.

THAT IS WHAT THEY'RE AFRAID OF.

>>Daryl: SHOULD THEY, MAYBE THIS CAN BE A PRACTICUM FOR WHISTLE BLOWERS.

CORRUPTION.

WE'RE TALKING BEFORE, WHEN WE'VE HAD PEOPLE COME TO US TO SAY, THIS THING HAPPENING THEM.

WE WILL TELL THEM YOU NEED TO TALK TO A LAWYER.

SOMETHING PEOPLE CONSIDERING WHISTLE BLOWING SHOULD DO BEFORE THEY GO TO BOSS.

>> ONE NICE AVENUE THAT PEOPLE ARE USING AND I'VE DIRECTED.

SINCE I'VE BEEN CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMISSION, I'M GETTING CALLS OF CORRUPTION IN STATE AND COUNTY GOVERNMENT.

>>Daryl: I'LL GIVE YOU MY CARD.

I DIRECT THEM TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

IF YOU GO ONLINE, ON THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION, YOU CAN FILE ANONYMOUS COMPLAINT.

AND NO ONE KNOWS YOU'RE BEHIND IT.

ETHICS COMMISSION WILL LOOK AT IT.

AND FOLLOW UP ON IT.

IF IT COMES BACK WITHIN THEIR MANDATE, THEY'LL HANDLE IT.

IF NOT, REFER IT TO STATE, COUNTY OR LAW.

>>Daryl: DONE THAT, MY SAFE FROM RETALIATION?

>> I THINK YOU ARE.

IT'S ANONYMOUS.

FROM WHAT I SEE OF THE PROCESS, UNLESS YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY FIGURES OUT, MUST HAVE COME FROM DARYL.

NO ONE ELSE.

>>Daryl: THAT'S WITH THE FEAR IS.

>> THAT'S A REAL FEAR.

AND THAT'S A REALITY AND IT GOES BACK TO YOUR EARLIER POINT AND DISCUSSION ON THE CULTURE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY, IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT.

>>Daryl: THE CULTURE OF FEAR.

HOW REAL IS IT IN THIS COMMUNITY AND HOW PERVASIVE IS IT AND HOW CAN WE OVERCOME.

IT SEEMS REAL.

>> I THINK IT IS REAL PARTIALLY BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A SMALL STATE.

IT ISN'T IS SO HARD TO MAKE THOSE CONNECTIONS.

IN CALIFORNIA, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE THOUSAND OF AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WORKING FOR DIFFERENT AGENCIES, ACROSS MASSIVE STATE, IT'S HARDER TO POINT THE FINGER.

IN HAWAII, NOT SO HARD.

HAVE ALL OF THESE PROTECTIONS, MAYBE YOU FEAR REPRISALS THROUGH YOUR FAMILY.

OR JUST FEAR OF SOCIAL OSBORNE TERRORIZATION.

REAL FEAR.

NOT LOSE YOUR JOB.

>> BE SORT OF BLACK LISTED BY YOUR FRIENDS OR FAMILY FOR EXPOSING SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE LARGELY THINK IT'S OKAY.

ISN'T REALLY THAT BAD TO BE CHECKING YOUR OWN ELECTRICAL WORK.

IS THAT, WHO IS REALLY HURTING IN THE CASE LIKE THAT?

I THINK FOR PEOPLE WHO DO MAKE THESE PRINCIPLED STANDS, BLOW‑BACK CAN BE FIERCE.

OPEN WAY TO SHOW IT'S OKAY IS FOR PEOPLE WHO DO THAT DO TAKE A STAND, FIVE YEARS LATER, TO BE ABLE TO SAY, I'M GLAD I DID IT.

I WAS PROTECTED.

I FEEL LIKE THIS WAS A POSITIVE EXPERIENCE I MADE.

MADE REAL CHANGE.

I WASN'T PERSONALLY HARMED BY DOING THE RIGHT THING.

>>Daryl: JANICE, YOU SPENT MANY YEARS IN PRIVATE BUSINESS.

IS THAT FEAR EXISTED IN PRIVATE BUSINESS AS WELL AS IN PUBLIC LIFE?

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT CULTURE AND HOW TO ADDRESS IT?

>> I DO THINK IT'S THERE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AS WELL.

SAME THINGS THAT COLIN DESCRIBED, PEOPLE FIGURED OUT WHO REPORT, WHO THE WHISTLE BLOWERS WAS OR MIGHT LOSE MY JOB.

FRIENDS AT WORK WON'T LIKE ME ANY MORE.

IT'S DEFINITELY THERE.

BUT ETHICS COMMISSION OPTION THAT DAN MENTIONED IS VERY IMPORTANT SAFETY VALVE.

BECAUSE UNTIL WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE THINK, I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THIS, BUT GOOD CHANCE NOW THAT I'LL GET CAUGHT.

I THINK WE'RE REALLY NOT GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL TO MAKE THIS CULTURAL CHANGE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> I'M REMEMBERING THAT IN THE KATHERINE KEALOHA CASE, PEOPLE WENT TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

THEY WERE INVESTIGATING THEM.

>> THAT WAS THE CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU.

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE STATE.

>>Daryl: DISTINCTION TO BE MADE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'D GO TO THE STATE.

>>Daryl: GO WITH THAT.

WHY?

>> WELL, THEY SEEM TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE.

I HAVE FRIENDS ON THE COMMISSION, CITY & COUNTY, AND THEY'RE FINE PEOPLE, BUT THEY LET GO I THINK BEST INVESTIGATOR CHUCK TODO.

THOUGHT HE WAS DOING A GREAT JOB.

>> LET HIM GO.

>> COMMISSION DID RECOMMEND, BY THE WAY, WE'RE AWARE OF THE LACK OF RESOURCES AT THE COUNTY ETHICS COMMISSION.

WE DID RECOMMEND A ONE‑TIME APPROPRIATION TO HELP THEM OUT AND BUILD UP THEIR CAPABILITIES.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS GOING ANYWHERE.

>>Daryl: BUT YOU GUYS MAKE A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

FROM COUNTY TO COUNTY, FROM STATE TO STATE, TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE STATE.

AWFUL LOT OF THESE CASES HAVE BEEN COUNTY LEVEL CASES.

I KNOW SENATOR RHOADS, PREDOMINANTLY INVOLVED WITH THE STATE GOVERNMENT.

IS IT SOMETHING THAT THE STATE GOVERNMENT CAN DO TO BOLSTER THE COUNTY, COUNTY'S ABILITY TO FUNNEL THEIR ETHICS?

DO WE HAVE A STATEWIDE ETHICS LAW THAT WOULD APPLY ACROSS ALL OF THE COUNTIES EQUALLY?

>> YEAH.

STATE ETHICS LAW APPLIES TO ALL, I'M HESITATING.

I THINK IT APPLIES TO ALL PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

SO COUNTY OR STATE.

YEAH, I MEAN, COMMISSION DID PUT FORWARD A BILL ON TRYING TO ‑‑ I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS BEFORE.

BECAUSE I'M PRETTY HONOLULUCENTRIC.

REPRESENT DOWNTOWN HONOLULU.

BUT THE NEIGHBOR ISLAND ETHICS COMMISSION ARE JUST SORT OF SHELLS.

>> DON'T HAVE ANY PAID STAFF AND YOU GUYS DID OFFER SOME SOLUTIONS.

I DID MOVE YOUR BILL.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING ANY FURTHER.

BUT IT'S JUST A JOLT THEM AWAKE.

I THINK STATE, I THINK, JUDGE FOLD IS RIGHT.

GO TO THE STATE ONE.

>>Daryl: YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU BROUGHT UP THE CIVIL BEAT STORY.

EXCELLENT STORY ABOUT THIS BUILDING INSPECTOR THAT HAD A COMPANY DOING ELECTRICAL WORK.

INSPECTING HIS OWN WORK.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS JUST HAVING THE COMPANY WAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST BECAUSE HE COULD BE HARDER ON COMPETING COMPANY.

DON'T INSPECT YOUR OWN WORK, HE WAS IN A POSITION TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OTHERS.

AND THAT JUST FLEW BY.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK IT IS AS A TALKING POINT FOR US TO BE ASKING ABOUT THE COUNTY LEVEL OF ETHICS ON EXAMINATION?

>> I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

THEY NEED MORE RESOURCES.

THAT IS, WE CAN'T JUSTIN HAVE LAWS ON THE BOOKS WITH NO ONE TO ENFORCE OR INVESTIGATE THEM.

TRUE FOR TOO LONG.

>> NEED MORE PROTECTION.

>> JUST MENTIONED WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CITY & COUNTY ETHICS COMMISSION.

A LOT OF PUSH BACK AND LEAD PERSON THERE REALLY, I THINK, MANY WAYS WAS FORCED OUT.

AND THEY NEED INDEPENDENT BUDGETS.

>> NEED MORE AUTONOMY ON ALL OF THAT TO OPERATE.

FOR THE DPP EXAMPLE, WE JUST NEED TO BE MORE CAREFUL NOT ALLOWING THOSE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

WE START THIS CONVERSATION TALKING ABOUT GIVING PEOPLE MORE TRUST IN GOVERNMENT.

ONE THING WE KNOW ABOUT ETHICS REFORMS WE WANT THEM TO STOP CORRUPTION.

DON'T WANT APPEARANCE OF CORRUPTION OR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

APPEARANCE OF CORRUPTION OR CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

PEOPLE DOING ELECTRICAL INSPECTION, WERE TOTALLY NEUTRAL AND VERY FAIR.

FROM THE OUTSIDE, WOULD SAY THIS IS RIGGED.

CORRUPT.

WE CAN'T ALLOW.

MAY MEAN MAKING ACCOMMODATION.

PAID INSPECTORS MORE SO DON'T TRY TO MOONLIGHT HAVE TO BE ACCOMMODATION.

>> INCENTIVES.

IN HAWAII, MONETARY.

SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

>> OUT OF THAT, ONE OF THE IRONIES OF THIS WHOLE SITUATION.

MORE PEOPLE WHO GET CAUGHT, JUST A GOOD THING IF THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG.

MORE PEOPLE GET CAUGHT, MORE PEOPLE THINK THAT'S, SYSTEM IS CORRUPT.

>>Daryl: CHOOSE WELL.

MAKING THE SYSTEM WORK AND YOU CATCH PEOPLE.

EVERYBODY THINKS IT'S CORRUPT.

PEOPLE GETTING CAUGHT.

I DON'T KNOW.

>>Daryl: JUDGE FOLEY, YOU DO, YOU HAVE POSITION OVER MANY YEARS, TO REALLY GET A SENSE OF THE TEMPERATURE OF THESE ISSUES.

DO WE NEED TO GO THROUGH A PERIOD OF TIME WHERE WE ARE THROWING ALL THE CROOKS IN JAIL AND ENDURE THIS PERIOD OF PUBLIC DISGUST IN ORDER TO GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO GO?

>> I DO THINK WE NEED TO UNCOVER CONSTRUCTION.

I THINK WE HAVE TO ‑‑ >>Daryl: IT'S NOT ALL UNCOVERED YET, RIGHT?

>> NO.

I MEAN, WE HAVE TO PROSECUTE AND WE HAVE TO CONVICT AND MAKE IT HIGH PROFILE AND SEND OUT A MESSAGE.

>> WHITE COLLAR CRIME.

A LOT IS THE STAKE.

STATE OR COUNTY OFFICIAL OR EMPLOYEE, IF YOU GET CAUGHT, CAN'T RUN FOR OFFICE FOR TEN YEARS.

LOSE YOUR JOB.

THERE'S FINES.

>> SERIOUS PENALTIES.

SO IT'S MY HOPE THAT IF WE CAN REALLY RAMP UP THE INVESTIGATIONS PROSECUTION, CONVICTIONS, MAKE IT VERY HIGH PROFILE, PEOPLE WILL THINK TWICE BEFORE THEY COMMIT THESE ACTS.

>>Daryl: WE'VE GOT TWO ATTORNEYS AND UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR HERE.

YOU'RE THE ONE SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE PRIVATE BUSINESS.

>> YES.

>>Daryl: AND DO YOU THINK THAT THE PUBLIC JUST DOESN'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE JUDICIARY, KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THE WAY THE LEGISLATURE WORKS, KNOW ENOUGH?

JUST LIVING THEIR LIVES AND HARD FOR THEM TO GRASP AND GET EXCITED ABOUT THESE ISSUES?

LIVING THEIR LIVES?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I THINK AVERAGE PERSON UNDERSTANDS FRAUD OR BRIBERY.

I THINK THEY'RE SHOCKED AND THIS IS THE AREA WHERE THE MEDIA HAS BEEN VERY IMPORTANT IN EXPOSING WHAT IS GOING ON AND MAKING THE STORIES ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

NO, I THINK MAYBE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE INS AND OUTS OF THE LEGISLATURE.

BUT AVERAGE PERSON UNDERSTANDS CORRUPTION.

YES.

>>Daryl: WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT IS RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, TO SOME EXTENT, PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE WORN OUT WITH ALL OF IT.

AND PROBABLY QUESTION WHETHER ANYTHING WILL COME OF THE COMMISSION'S WORK.

I DON'T KNOW.

I HOPE THAT IS SUCCESSFUL WORK.

SO THAT IS HOW MY FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS SORT OF SEE THE SITUATION.

>>Daryl: JUDGE, GONE THROUGH A LOT OF TOPICS HERE.

YOU WERE THE CHAIR OF THAT COMMISSION.

IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THAT WE HAVEN'T COVERED YET?

>> THERE'S ONE BROAD AREA, MADE NUMEROUS RECOMMENDATIONS.

MORE DISCLOSURE.

MORE TRANSPARENCY IN TERMS OF LOBBYISTS.

LOBBYISTS DISCLOSE WHAT THEY'RE DOING AT THE LEGISLATURE, WHAT FINANCIAL RELATIONSHIPS THEY HAVE WITH THE LEGISLATORS.

WHAT BILLS OR OTHER MEASURES THEY'RE WORKING ON.

LEGISLATORS DISCLOSING.

MAKING PUBLIC RECORDS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC ESPECIALLY IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST.

POSTING THINGS ONLINE.

TRANSPARENCY.

WE THINK THAT ACROSS THE BOARD IN THE LEGISLATURE IN EXECUTIVE AGENCIES WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL.

TO HELP UNCOVER WRONGDOING, IT'S IN THE LIGHT.

NOT A SECRET.

>>Daryl: SENATE, DO YOU SEE STOMACH FOR THAT AT THE LEGISLATURE IN TERMS OF FORCING OUT MORE DISCLOSERS?

SOME PROPOSALS ARE VERY SPECIFIC MORE LEVELS OF CONFLICTS THAN BEFORE.

>> I THINK THERE IS A STOMACH FOR IT.

A LOT OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT TONIGHT, STUFF IS GOING TO PASS THIS YEAR.

I DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AS TO WHICH ONES EXACTLY.

I MEAN, SOME THINGS WERE ALREADY VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT.

WHAT WE SPEND FOR OUR OFFICER ALLOWANCES.

WELL, YOU CAN JUST LOOK THEM UP.

ALL OF OUR SALARIES, ALL THE STAFF'S SALARIES.

PUBLIC INFORMATION.

ONE OF THE SILVER LININGS OF THE PANDEMIC IS YOU CAN WATCH EVERYTHING ON TV NOW IF YOU WANT TO.

YOU CAN TESTIFY FROM HOME NOW.

TOO THAT YOU COULDN'T DO BEFORE.

STOMACH FOR IT AND HAS BEEN FOR YEARS.

PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE PUSHING FOR A LOT OF THESE TRANSPARENCY THINGS.

TRANSPARENCY BILLS AND IDEAS FOR A LONG TIME.

>>Daryl: ALL THOSE DISCLOSURE ISSUES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT LEGISLATORS OR LOBBYIST SHOULD BE DISCLOSING THAT'S BEING DISCLOSED NOW?

>> I'M NOT ON EXPERT ON WHAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE NOW.

SAY ONE PART OF THE COMMISSION'S PROPOSAL THAT I DON'T THINK IS GOING TO PASS THIS YEAR.

I THINK WAS VERY IMPORTANT.

BUILDING PUBLIC TRUST WHICH WAS TO ESTABLISH THE OFFICE OF PUBLIC ADVOCATE.

THIS ACTUALLY WAS AN IDEA OF JIM SHAWN, FORMER LEGISLATURE INVOLVED.

>> THIS WOULD DO A LOT TO IMPROVE RELATIONS BETWEEN CITIZENS AND LEGISLATORS.

>> GREAT DISCUSSION.

WE RESEARCHED END OF OUR HOUR ALREADY.

MAHALO FOR ALL OF YOU FOLKS AT HOME FOR JOINING US.

DAN FOLEY AND JANET MASON FROM THE COMMISSION TO IMPROVE STANDARDS OF CONDUCT, SENATOR KARL RHOADS, AND POLITICAL ANALYST COLIN MOORE.

INSIGHTS WILL BE OFF NEXT THURSDAY.

PLEASE JOIN US INSTEAD FOR A SPECIAL KAKOU ‑ HAWAII’S TOWN HALL.

A GROUP OF EXPERTS AND CONCERNED CITIZENS WILL DISCUSS THE RISING SEA LEVELS HERE IN HAWAII AND THEIR IMPACT ON BEACHES, INFRASTRUCTURE, AND HOMES.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII, I’M DARYL HUFF.

ALOHA.

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