>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Eric: COMING UP ON "ALMANAC" A LEGAL EXPERT ON THE KILLING OF ALEX PRETTI BY FEDERAL AGENTS IN MINNEAPOLIS LAST WEEKEND.

KAOMI LEE WAS IN ST.

CLOUD TO EXPLORE I.C.E.

ACTION IN GREATER MINNESOTA.

MARY LAHAMMER LOOKS AT CHANGING ATTITUDES ABOUT THE CURRENT IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IN MINNESOTA.

>> IT'S THE POLITICAL DYNAMIC SHIFTS IN THE IMMIGRATION ACTION IN MINNESOTA WE'LL TALK TO SOME OF THE VOICES BEHIND THE CHANGE.

>> I JUST WANT TO TRY TO CALM THINGS DOWN AND GET TO A PEACEFUL RESOLUTION WHERE AMERICAN CITIZENS AREN'T AFRAID TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.

>> IT'S GONE BEYOND BEING FAR ENOUGH.

NO ONE SHOULD GO TO A PROTEST AND DIE.

>> THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

>> WITH THE FATAL SHOOTING OF 37-YEAR-OLD MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT ALEX PRETTI BY BORDER PATROL AGENTS LAST SATURDAY MORNING.

IT'S THE SECOND TIME THIS MONTH FEDERAL AGENTS AVE SHOT AND KILLED A MINNEAPOLIS RESIDENT LEADING TO MORE CALLS FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE FOR A PAUSE OR REDUCTION IN THE IMMIGRATION CRACKDOWN IN THE STATE.

SHANNON PRINCE JOINS US RIGHT NOW.

SHE'S AN ATTORNEY BASED IN HOUSTON AND A NATIONAL EXPERT ON USE OF FORCE.

WELCOME BACK.

THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THE USE OF FORCE IN A MOMENT HERE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE TWO REPORTERS WHO WERE ARRESTED TODAY ON FEDERAL CHARGES, DON LEMON FROM L.A.

AND GEORGIA FORT HERE, INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST BASED IN THE TWIN CITIES.

THEY WERE ARRESTED FOR THEIR ROLE IN COVERING THAT ST.

PAUL CHURCH PROTESTS.

AND THEY SEEM TO BE LUMPED WITH PROTESTERS ARRESTED EARLIER.

WHAT KIND OF A RED LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED BY THEIR ARRESTS >> WELL, THESE JOURNALISTS WERE CHARGED WITH VIOLATING THE F.A.C.E.

ACT AND CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIOTS.

THE F.A.C.E.

ACT PREVENTS VIOLENCE, INTIMIDATION, OBSTRUCTION FOR SOMEONE TRYING TO RECEIVE ABORTION OR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH SERVICES OR RELIGIOUS WORSHIP.

NOW, THESE TWO JOURNALISTS DON'T APPEAR TO BE OING ANY OF THOSE THINGS, PHYSICAL FORCE OR THREATS OR DAMAGING PROPERTY.

SO IT APPEARS THE CASE AGAINST THEM IS NOT VERY STRONG.

WITH REGARD TO CONSPIRACY AGAINST RIGHTS THAT'S WHEN TWO OR MORE PEOPLE COME TOGETHER TO THWART OTHER PEOPLE IN EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT, IN THIS CASE IT WOULD BE THE RIGHT TO ENGAGE IN RELIGIOUS WORSHIP FREELY.

THAT THWARTING HAPPENS WHEN THE BEHAVIORS ARE INTIMIDATION, THREATENING, OPPRESSION OR INJURING.

I DON'T THINK THAT THERE'S AN ARGUMENT THAT THESE REPORTERS WERE INJURING ANYONE, OR EVEN THREATENING ANYONE.

BUT IT COULD BE ARGUED AS A STRETCH THAT MAYBE IT'S OPPRESSIVE TO HAVE YOUR RELIGIOUS WORSHIP INTERRUPTED EVEN BY PEOPLE INTERRUPTING THE SERVICES TO PRACTICE JOURNALISM OR THAT IT'S INTIMIDATING TO HAVE SOMEONE BROADCAST YOUR RELIGIOUS PLACE OF WORSHIP WHEN YOU ARE BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHURCH STIGMATIZED FOR BEING FFILIATED WITH A LEADER OF I.C.E.

I DO THINK THESE JOURNALISTS HAVE A STRONG CONSTITUTIONAL DEFENSE THAT THEY WERE JUST CARRYING OUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT TO PRACTICE FREEDOM OF PRESS.

HOWEVER IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT A CONSTITUTIONAL DEFENSE IS NOT A SHIELD AGAINST GETTING ARRESTED.

SO I CAN'T SAY THAT A RED LINE HAS BEEN CROSSED BUT I DO THINK THAT THESE ARE WEAK CASES AND IT WAS UNWISE FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO BRING THEM.

>> Eric: THERE'S SO MUCH TO TALK ABOUT.

Mr.

PRETTI'S DEATH IS UNDER A CIVIL RIGHTS INVESTIGATION AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL BUT RENEE GOOD'S ASE IS NOT COMING UNDER INVESTIGATION.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE OF THE TWO EPISODES HERE?

>> WELL, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE MADE AN INTERESTING STATEMENT, AND THAT'S THAT THEY WERE NOT JUST GOING TO INVESTIGATE THE INCIDENT IN WHICH Mr.

PRETTI WAS KILLED, BUT ALSO THE PREVIOUS DAYS AND WEEKS.

THAT COULD SUGGEST THAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR A PATTERN OF CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, BUT IT ALSO COULD SUGGEST THAT THEY PLAN TO LOOK AT Mr.

PRETTI'S EARLIER INCIDENT IN WHICH HE RAN AT I.C.E.

AGENTS, SHOUTED AT THEM, SPAT AT THEM AND KICKED OUT THE TAILLIGHT OF AN I.C.E.

VEHICLE.

AND THAT COULD BE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHY Mr.

PRETTI'S CASE IS BEING INVESTIGATED AND Ms.

GOOD'S IS NOT.

IT COULD BE THE DOJ DOESN'T WANT TO INVESTIGATE Ms.

GOOD'S CASE BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT IF THEY LOOK AT THE WEEKS AND DAYS PRIOR TO HER KILLING THEY WON'T FIND A SIMILAR INCIDENT THAT MAKES HER LOOK BAD.

>> Cathy: I MENTIONED YOU ARE NATIONALLY KNOWN USE OF FORCE EXPERT AND I KNOW YOU'VE SEEN ALL THE VIDEOS AND THERE'S SO MUCH IN THE WAY OF BEING RECORDED SINCE DECEMBER.

WHEN YOU SEE THE VIDEOS OF SOME OF THE ARRESTS, SOME OF THE BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF I.C.E.

AGENTS AND PROTESTERS AND OF COURSE THEN THE KILLINGS, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING, AS AN EXPERT?

>> WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN I LOOK AT THE PRETTI CASE I'M SEEING A NUMBER OF CONSTITUTIONAL AND FEDERAL ISSUES.

SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THE INCIDENT IN WHICH HE WAS KILLED, WE SEE HIM FILMING THE POLICE, THAT IS PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

WE SEE THAT HE IS ARMED WITH A GUN THAT WE KNOW HE WAS LICENSED TO CARRY.

THAT'S EXERCISE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

AND EXERCISE OF EITHER OF THOSE RIGHTS DOES NOT JUSTIFY USE OF DEADLY FORCE, EVEN IF THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE EXERCISED IN THE CONTEXT OF AN I.C.E.

PROTEST.

NOW, IF WE LOOK AT THE PREVIOUS INCIDENT IN WHICH Mr.

PRETTI INTERACTED WITH I.C.E.

AGENTS AND WE SEE HIM RUNNING AS OFFICERS, RUNNING AT THEM, SHOUTING AT THEM, SPITTING AT THEM AND KICKING OUT THE TAILLIGHT, ARGUABLY IF THOSE OFFICERS WERE CONDUCTING ARREST, AND HE WAS INTERFERING WITH THE ARREST AND IT COULD BE SAID THAT HE WAS ATTACKING AN OFFICER, WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT EVEN AS A U.S.

CITIZEN I.C.E.

COULD HAVE MADE A LEGAL ARREST OF HIM.

HOWEVER, EVEN THAT INCIDENT WOULDN'T JUSTIFY DEADLY FORCE BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN THAT VIDEO Mr.

PRETTI APPEARS TO BE ARMED, YOU CAN'T USE DEADLY FORCE SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMEBODY IS ARMED AND ANGRY AND MAY BECOME DANGEROUS IF AN INCIDENT CONTINUES TO UNFOLD, YOU CAN ONLY USE IT IF THE THREAT IS IMMINENT.

WHEN WE LOOK AT Mr.

PRETTI KICKING OUT THE TAILLIGHT WHEN YOU DAMAGE FEDERAL PROPERTY WHILE ARMED THAT IS A FELONY, BUT THAT'S DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, NOT THREAT TO SEVERE BODILY HARM OR DEATH SO IT DOESN'T JUSTIFY DEADLY FORCE.

>> SHANNON, I WISH WE HAD MORE TIME WITH YOU.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: WELL, THE POLITICS OF THE IMMIGRATION ACTION IN MINNESOTA HIFTED THIS WEEK.

POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER SHOWS US HOW A GUN RIGHTS ADVOCATE AND REPUBLICAN LAWMAKER SPOKE UP.

>> AFTER ANOTHER FATAL SHOOTING BY FEDERAL AGENTS IN MINNESOTA, MORE THAN HALF A DOZEN STATE BCA AGENTS WERE ON THE SCENE DAYS LATER, PROCESSING EVIDENCE, AS MOURNERS REMEMBERED V.A.

NURSE ALEX PRETTI.

IT SEEMED NOW THE POLITICS OF THE ISSUE HAVE SHIFTED.

>> REPRESENTATIVE MEYERS AND I WROTE A LETTER TO THE GOVERNOR.

IT WAS THE SAME LETTER TO THE PRESIDENT.

WE WOULDN'T PUBLICIZE IT UNTIL AFTER THE MEETING OCCURRED BUT IT WAS BEGGING THEM SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT, GOVERNOR, PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL, PRESIDENT, PICK UP THE PHONE.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HELPED IT HAPPEN OR NOT.

>> NO IDEA, I'M SURE THERE IS 100,000 PEOPLE THAT DID THE SAME THING.

>> NOT ONLY RE REPUBLICANS PRIVATELY AND PUBLICLY QUESTIONING THE IMMIGRATION ACTION, BUT THE STATE'S LEADING GUN RIGHTS GROUPS SPOKE OUT ABOUT THE KILLING OF A LEGAL PERMIT HOLDER.

>> THE NARRATIVE THAT WAS PUT OUT BY THE DHS ND BORDER PATROL UNION AND OTHER FEDERAL OFFICIALS WAS JUST INACCURATE AS FAR AS LIKE WHAT WE SAW WITH OUR OWN EYES.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT YOU HAD TO REFUTE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT?

>> I WISH I COULD HAVE BEEN AT THIS POINT.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE OPERATION METRO SURGE I THINK THE DHS HAS SHOWN TO NOT BE A PARTICULARLY RELIABLE NARRATOR.

I WAS IMMEDIATELY SKEPTICAL WHEN I READ THEIR TATEMENT.

BUT I AM SURPRISED THAT DIRECTOR OF THE FBI IS PUTTING A BLATANT INCORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT MINNESOTANS' RIGHTS TO CARRY.

>> AND WHAT IS THE LAW THAT YOU HAD TO CLARIFY >> THAT YOU CAN'T CARRY AT A PROTEST.

NOTHING IN MINNESOTA LAW THAT SAYS THAT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN EXERCISING YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS AND SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS.

>> VERY DEEPLY VALUE THEIR ... >> DISHEARTENED BY INACCURATE MESSAGING.

>> HOW MUCH MEDIA HAVE YOU DONE SINCE THIS HAPPENED?

IS >> THIS IS INTERVIEW NUMBER 30 AND I'M NOT DONE YET.

>> THE FIREARM ECAME APPARENT.

>> YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING A LOT OF THE I.C.E.

ACTIONS AND CONCERNED ABOUTS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR HOME STATE HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND WHAT I'M SEEING LATELY IS A LOT OF PEOPLE'S RIGHTS BEING INFRINGED ON BY OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> HERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENCES, A LOT OF ANGER ON BOTH SIDES.

SO I THINK THERE'S A NUMBER OF LEGISLATORS THAT HAVE CARVED OUT THAT SPACE.

>> YOU'VE BROKEN WITH YOUR CAUCUS BEFORE.

>> SURE.

>> HAVEN'T BEEN PUNISHED YET, HAVE YOU?

>> NO, AND I DON'T THINK ANY CAUCUSES DO THAT, I THINK WHAT HAPPENS IS IT'S THE RASSROOTS.

I HAPPEN TO HAVE A DISTRICT THAT'S REALLY SPLIT.

50/50.

>> IS THERE ALSO GREAT REWARD IN REACHING ACROSS AND SHOWING MODERATION?

>> I THINK SO, I HAVEN'T REALLY SEEN THAT YET BUT I FEEL LIKE I'M A BIT OF AN ANOMALY IN MY DESIRE.

THERE'S A 20-FOOT CHASM AND IF EVERYBODY'S WILLING TO JUMP 10 FEET WE'RE NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>> ANOTHER CHANGE IS THE GOVERNOR SIGNING AN EXECUTIVE ORDER FOR WEAPONS SCREENINGS AT THE CAPITOL.

>> I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S WITHIN THE GOVERNOR'S AUTHORITY.

PERMIT TO CARRY HOLDERS HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO CARRY AT THE CAPITOL, BAKED INTO STATUTE, NOT SOMETHING THE GOVERNOR CAN OVERTURN VIA EXECUTIVE ORDER.

>> EACH CHAMBER INDIVIDUALLY CONTROLS THEIR OWN SPACE.

THE SENATE WILL BE BANNING GUNS IN THE PUBLIC GALLERY.

THE HOUSE HAS NOT FOLLOWED.

>> PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO ACCESS THEIR LEGISLATORS, WE CAN FIND THAT BALANCE.

YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT ABOUT THESE THINGS.

IT'S A LITTLE IT MORE RESPECTFUL DISCOURSE RATHER THAN BEING THAT ANGRY, VITRIOLIC, NAME-CALLING.

>> AND WILL IT BE DIFFERENT BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO BE WALKING PAST MELISSA'S MEMORIAL EVERY SINGLE DAY?

>> I HOPE SO.

WE'RE AT THAT POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO MAKE INTENTIONAL CHOICES ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO ACT WITH EACH OTHER.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP PUBLICLY TOUTED POSITIVE PHONE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DEMOCRATIC MAYOR OF MINNEAPOLIS AND GOVERNOR OF MINNESOTA.

IN A MAJOR SHIFT IN TONE, AFTER MISINFORMATION FROM VARIOUS FEDERAL OFFICIALS, INCLUDING COMMANDER BOVINO, WHO WAS REPLACED IN THE STATE.

>> -- TO DRAW DOWN ON THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WE HAVE HERE.

YES, I SAID IT.

DRAW DOWN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE HERE.

>> DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU MAYBE HELPED CHANGE THE POLITICAL NARRATIVE ON THIS IMMIGRATION ISSUE?

>> MY ANALYSIS MAYBE HAS SHIFTED SOME PEOPLE'S MENTALITY ON THAT.

AT THE END OF THE DAY I JUST WANT TO TRY TO CALM THINGS DOWN AND GET TO A PEACEFUL RESOLUTION WHERE AMERICAN CITIZENS AREN'T AFRAID TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES BECAUSE THEY MIGHT ENCOUNTER FEDERAL AGENTS, WHERE PEOPLE AREN'T BEING ARRESTED FOR HAVING COMMITTED NO CRIME WHATSOEVER, WHERE PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO CARRY ISN'T BEING QUESTIONED BECAUSE THEY DECIDED TO EXERCISE TWO RIGHTS SIMULTANEOUSLY.

>> THE POLITICAL RHETORIC AND THE ANGER, THE FEAR, THE, YOU KNOW, IS, IT IS -- IT'S GONE BEYOND BEING FAR ENOUGH.

NO ONE SHOULD GO TO A PROTEST AND DIE.

♪ >> Eric: AS IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT HAS SURGED AROUND THE STATE MANY SMALL BUSINESSES ARE FACING FINANCIAL CHALLENGES.

EARLIER THIS WEEK THE MINNEAPOLIS FOUNDATION ANNOUNCED NEARLY 30 MINNESOTA COMPANIES HAVE DONATED ABOUT $4 MILLION TO HELP SMALL BUSINESSES NAVIGATE THESE CHALLENGES.

RT RYBAK HEADS UP THE MINNEAPOLIS FOUNDATION.

FORMER MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR HAS BEEN URGING COMPANIES TO STEP UP AND HELP.

WELCOME, MAYOR.

THE 60 CORPORATION LETTER THAT WAS SENT OUT URGING COOPERATION -- I WONDER HOW YOU SEE THE CORPORATE COMMUNITY'S INVOLVEMENT GOING.

>> YEAH.

WELL, THAT WAS A ASSOCIATION TRYING TO GET A CONSENSUS WHICH IS ALWAYS TOUGH BUT I THINK THAT WAS PRETTY UNIVERSALLY DISMISSED AS NOT SAYING MUCH, HONESTLY.

WHAT HAPPENED IN THIS CASE IS SATURDAY AFTER THE MURDER I CALLED A COUPLE PEOPLE WHO WERE EX-CEOS, DOUG BAKER AND DAVE M CLENNAN AND CALLED FOR HELP IN GETTING BUSINESS LEADERS INVOLVED, CHRISTOFF FROM ECOLAB AND FROM MEDTRONIC AND GOT ON THE PHONE AND WITHIN ABOUT A DAY AND A HALF THEY HAD 20 DIFFERENT LEADERS, NOW 27, AND THEY'VE PUT IN OW $4 MILLION, WHICH IS GREAT.

IT IS A GREAT START.

THED >> Cathy: HOWEVER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CORPORATIONS THAT ARE MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR COMPANIES.

>> AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN INCREDIBLY SERIOUS ISSUE WITH THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AND OTHER SMALL BUSINESSES.

REMEMBER WHEN GEORGE FLOYD WAS MURDERED WE DID SOMETHING SIMILAR AT THE MINNEAPOLIS FOUNDATION.

COUPLE LEADING BUSINESS LEADERS, MORTENSON, ROD YOUNG FROM DELTA DENTAL STEPPED UP AND PUT MONEY IN A POT AND SLOWLY OTHERS CAME ALONG.

WE WOUND UP EVENTUALLY RAISING 15 MILLION, 35 FROM THE STATE, INVESTED IN SMALL BUSINESS AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO AGAIN.

GOOD START, WE NEED A LOT MORE.

>> Eric: DIFFERENCE IN MINNEAPOLIS, GEORGE FLOYD REACTION TO THE I.C.E.

REACTION.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS A DIFFERENCE?

>> YEAH, IT'S SUCH A GOOD QUESTION, ERIC.

BECAUSE THESE ARE TWO INCIDENTS THAT SHINE A SPOTLIGHT ON THIS ONE CITY AND YET THEY COULDN'T BE MORE DIFFERENT.

GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER WAS A SHOCK TO EVERYONE, CAME OUT OF THE BLUE.

IT WAS BASICALLY A WAR AMONGST OURSELVES, AND E REALLY NEEDED TO LOOK EACH OTHER IN THE EYE AND ASK SOME PRETTY TOUGH QUESTIONS.

AND THOSE DIVISIONS I THINK TO A DEGREE STAYS 'TIL THIS DAY.

THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT.

SAW IT COMING, INVESTING A LOT IN THE COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION, OUR FOUNDATION AND OTHERS, AND THE COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE WOUND UP DOING A LOT OF WORK IN KEEPING THE PEACE IN THIS COMMUNITY, MORE IMPORTANT, THIS IS EALLY I THINK BEEN A UNIFYING EVENT BECAUSE IN SPITE OF INCREDIBLE CAPITULATION ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD WITH BULLYING THAT'S COME OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, THIS COMMUNITY HAS STOOD TOGETHER AND SUDDENLY NOW THE ENTIRE WORLD IS LOOKING AT US ALMOST EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SAW AS OFTEN A DYSFUNCTIONAL -- THIS IS NOW -- NOT ONLY THE CITY AND THE WHOLE STATE, SPRINGSTEEN IS ONE OF THE MANY -- >> Cathy: WHO WAS HERE EARLIER TODAY AT FIRST AVENUE.

>> HE WAS.

BUT -- PEOPLE SEE THAT THE IDEA WHEN YOU HAVE A BULLY TRYING TO DO SOMETHING AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE AS VIOLENT AS BULLIES FROM I.C.E.

HAVE BEEN DOING, WHAT YOU NEED TO DO IS STAND TOGETHER.

IF YOU'RE AFRAID, HOLD YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HAND, AND THIS IS THE MOST -- I HAVE HONESTLY NEVER BEEN MORE PROUD OF OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR STATE.

AND IT'S BECAUSE WE ARE PROVING TO THE WORLD THAT WHEN SOMEBODY TRIES TO ISOLATE PEOPLE AND BULLY THEM OVER HERE, IF YOU STAND TOGETHER AGAINST A BULLY, MINNEAPOLIS AND MINNESOTA ARE SHOWING THE WORLD.

>> Cathy: I UNDERSTAND OU HAVE PARTICIPATED IN SOME OF THE PROTESTS, IS THAT RIGHT >> I ABSOLUTELY -- >> Cathy: WHAT SPURRED YOU INTO THE STREETS?

YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THAT.

>> FRANKLY ALWAYS HAVE DONE THAT, CITY HALL AND GOT THIS FOUNDATION JOB BUT I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT SOMETIMES THINGS LIKE NIGHT FLIGHTS AT THE AIRPORT WHEN I DID A PAJAMA PARTY AT THE AIRPORT YEARS AGO.

OR NOW WHEN YOU SEE SOME REALLY HORRIBLE THINGS HAPPENING N THIS COMMUNITY.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU, WHEN I BEGAN GOING TO PROTESTS THIS YEAR, IT WAS KIND OF PEOPLE MY AGE, HONESTLY.

THIS IS VERY, VERY DIFFERENT NOW.

AND SO WHEN YOU WALK AROUND A PROTEST LIKE TODAY YOU'LL TALK TO PEOPLE FROM ALL AGES, ALL BACKGROUNDS, BUT A CLEAR SENSE THAT PEOPLE ARE GETTING STRONGER AND STRONGER AND STRONGER, WE'VE BEEN IN THE COLD, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN FIGHTING, BUT THEY'RE STAYING IN THERE.

AND THE REAL COOL THING IS GO TO ANY COFFEE SHOP RIGHT NOW AND WHAT YOU SEE IS YOU'LL SEE A WHOLE STACK OF DIAPERS AND HOME GOODS THAT PEOPLE ARE DELIVERING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRAID TO GET OUT OF THEIR HOUSE.

THEY'RE ORGANIZING TO GO TO CHILDCARE OR CHOOLS AND PARENTS ARE SURROUNDING THAT, THESE ARE THE HEROES.

THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THE STREET TODAY BUT THERE WAS ONE PERSON HOLDING A SIGN ON A ORNER TODAY ALL BY THEMSELVES, EVERYBODY IS GETTING UP OFF THE COUCH WHICH I THINK FOR MOST OF THIS YEAR PEOPLE DIDN'T DO.

>> Eric: REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER TONIGHT.

THANKS SO MUCH.

GREAT TO SEE YOU.

TENSIONS AROUND I.C.E.

PRESENCE ARE NOT JUST CONCENTRATED IN THE TWIN CITIES METRO.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE TRAVELED TO ST.

CLOUD LAST WEEK TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE IMPACT IN GREATER MINNESOTA.

>> CLOSE MY PLACE BECAUSE FOR THE SITUATION, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

>> THIS ST.

CLOUD RESTAURANT OWNER HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO LEAVE HIS APARTMENT FOR THREE WEEKS.

HE FEARS BEING PICKED UP BY FEDERAL I.C.E.

AGENTS.

WE'VE AGREED NOT TO IDENTIFY HIM OTHER THAN A NICKNAME, ALDO, BECAUSE OF SAFETY CONCERNS.

HE'S ORIGINALLY FROM MEXICO CITY AND HAS BEEN IN THE U.S.

FOR 34 YEARS.

>> VERY SCARY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IN WHAT MOMENT THE PEOPLE ARE SAFE OR NOT.

>> THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION INITIALLY SAID ITS PRIORITY WAS TO DETAIN AND DEPORT VIOLENT UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS.

HOWEVER, RIGHTS GROUPS AND OFFICIALS SAY THE SCOPE IS FAR WIDER.

THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY SENT MORE THAN 2,000 AGENTS TO MINNESOTA.

ONE OF ITS GOAL HAS BEEN TO DETAIN AND REEVALUATE THE STATE'S 5600 REFUGEE.

SOMALI COMMUNITY LEADERS SAY THE OPERATION IN ST.

CLOUD HAS CAUSED FEAR.

>> I.C.E.

AVE A MANDATE TO ROUND UP SOMALI COMMUNITIES, ASK FOR I.D.s AND DETAIN THEM WITHOUT A PROBABLE CAUSE.

>> DASANI IS A MINNESOTA HOUSE CANDIDATE.

SHE DID NOT MAKE HERSELF AVAILABLE FOR COMMENT ON I.C.E.

ACTIVITY IN ST.

CLOUD DESPITE MULTIPLE REQUESTS FOR INTERVIEWS OR STATEMENT.

DISANI SAYS I.C.E.

CONVOYS ARE SPOTTED DAILY AROUND FOOD CENTERS AND EVEN AT RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS.

HE SAYS PEOPLE AREN'T ABLE TO GO ABOUT THEIR LIVES.

>> I KNOW PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT SENDING THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL.

I KNOW PEOPLE THAT ARE NOT GOING FOR GROCERIES AND ASKING FOLKS TO HELP THEM GET GROCERIES.

I KNOW PEOPLE NOT GOING TO MOSQUE TO PRAY AND I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT WORKING.

>> WEEKS AGO THIS WAS THE SCENE OF A CONFRONTATION BETWEEN DOZENS OF FEDERAL I.C.E.

AGENTS AND HUNDREDS OF PROTESTERS.

THE STRIP SMALL IS FULL OF SOMALI OWNED BUSINESSES AND MANY BUSINESS OWNERS SAY THEY FEAR FOR WHAT'S TO COME.

AT STAR MARKET IN ST.

CLOUD AN HOURS-LONG STANDOFF BETWEEN I.C.E.

AND PROTESTERS ENDED.

ONE BYSTANDER SAYS I.C.E.

IS CREATING TENSE SITUATIONS.

>> WE ALL LIVE HERE, I WAS BORN HERE, I'VE BEEN HERE MY WHOLE LIFE AND TO SEE THE WAY IN WHICH, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE BASICALLY FORCING US INTO OUR HOMES AND PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GO OUTSIDE IS RIDICULOUS.

>> HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS HAPPENING ON YOUR STREETS?

>> I HAVE NOT IN MY 31 YEARS.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS.

WHAT I HAVE SEEN IS WE'VE ALWAYS HAD A ROBUST AND VERY POSITIVE RELATIONSHIP WITH ALL OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT PARTNERS.

INCLUDING OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS.

>> VERY RISKY, VERY VOLATILE SITUATION.

ALL THINGS CONSIDERED -- DIDN'T SEE AN ES ESCALATION IN VIOLENCE, WE DIDN'T SEE VANDALISM.

>> CIVILIAN SOURCES SAID I.C.E.

MADE SOME ARRESTS BUT I.C.E.

HASN'T SHARED WITH LOCAL POLICE EITHER BEFORE OR AFTER DETAINING PEOPLE.

>> NOT GETTING INFORMATION INFORMATION BACK FROM FEDERAL AUTHORITIES, THEY DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT, AGAIN, IT'S JUST NOT WHAT WE'RE USED TO IN 30 YEARS I'VE SEEN.

>> AUSTIN HAS BEEN CHIEF FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS.

HE SAYS THE REALITY IS IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IS NEEDED.

>> WE NEEDED IT BUT IT COMES BACK TO HAT WE TALKED ABOUT.

HOW THINGS ARE DONE MATTERS.

AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING AND HOW THINGS ARE DONE RIGHT NOW IS CAUSING FEAR.

>> I THINK COMMUNICATION HAS BEEN THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE WE'VE FACED IN WORKING WITH THEM SIMPLY BECAUSE WHEN WE DON'T HAVE INFORMATION AND THE PUBLIC DOESN'T HAVE INFORMATION THAT ALLOWS SOMETIMES FALSEHOODS, MISINFORMATION, INFLATED INFORMATION, SOMETIMES TRUE INFORMATION TO SEEP INTO SOCIAL MEDIA AND THEN BECOME KIND OF THE NARRATIVE.

BUT WE'RE LIVING IN A WORLD WHERE WE NEED TO CONFIRM THINGS, RIGHT, WE CAN'T BE GOING ON HUNCH OR WHIM.

>> BOTH CAUTION THAT OFFICIALS HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY IN DE-ESCALATING TENSIONS.

IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE KILLING OF RENEE GOOD, MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR FREY REACTED.

GET THE BLEEP OUT OF MINNEAPOLIS.

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S HELPFUL RHETORIC.

INDEED WHAT YOU SAW HAPPENED WAS THAT THEY DOUBLED THE PRESENCE OF I.C.E.

DID HE GET THE RESULT HE WANTED?

HE MAYBE WANTED TO GET A POLITICAL RESULT.

>> SAID IN AN E-MAIL THAT FAMILY MEMBERS INCLUDING MINOR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM THEIR HOMES OR DETAINED WHILE COMING HOME FROM WORK OR SCHOOL.

MANY APPEARED TO BE QUICKLY TRANSFERRED TO TEXAS FOR PROCESSING.

ST.

CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY SAYS TWO OF ITS INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS ON STUDENT VISAS WERE DETAINED.

ONE WAS TRANSFERRED TO AN OUT OF STATE HOLDING FACILITY.

>> SOMETIMES ONLY HAVE ONE OR TWO TABLES PER DAY.

>> ALDO HAD TO CLOSE HIS RESTAURANT BECAUSE HIS CUSTOMERS FEARED GOING OUT.

HE SAYS HE'S LOSING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EVERY WEEK.

HIS WIFE IS ALSO FROM MEXICO AND HAS AN ACTIVE IMMIGRATION CASE.

TWO OF THEIR THREE U.S.-BORN CHILDREN LIVE NEARBY.

FOR NOW THE FUTURE OF HIS RESTAURANT AND HIS AMERICAN DREAM IS UNCLEAR.

>> WHEN I MOVED THE FIRST TIME IN ST.

CLOUD, I THINK IT'S MY PLACE FOR MY DREAMS AND EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, AND NOW IT'S A REALLY HARD SITUATION.

♪ ♪ >> Eric: JOINING US TO TALK MORE ABOUT THE SITUATION IN ST.

CLOUD, KAOMI LEE.

WELL, WHAT IS THE POLICE SETUP TO WORK WITH I.C.E.

OR NOT WORK WITH I.C.E.?

>> WELL, IN 2005 THERE WAS A COMMUNITY POLICING AGREEMENT, AND THAT WAS UPDATED IN 2017.

AND THAT OUTLINED HAT LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT DO IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.

RIGHT NOW, THEY AREN'T REALLY, AS WE HEARD IN THE PIECE, THEY ARE NOT GETTING FOREWARNING OF ANY DETAINMENTS OR TARGETS AND THEY ALSO AREN'T GETTING ANY INFORMATION AFTER AN ACTION HAS TAKEN PLACE.

SO THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW WHO'S BEING SWEPT UP AND THEY'RE RELYING JUST LIKE THE REST OF US ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND, YOU KNOW, BYSTANDER ACCOUNTS, MEDIA RECORDINGS, AS -- AND COMMUNITY REPORTS AS TO WHO'S BEEN DETAINED.

>> Cathy: I'M GLAD YOU WENT INTO GREATER MINNESOTA, I MEAN, WE'VE HEARD I.C.E.

AGENTS AVE BEEN AROUND TWO HARBORS DOWN TO ST.

CLOUD, WILLMAR, THEY'RE ALL OVER THE STATE.

I'M WONDERING DID ST.

CLOUD CITY LEADERS, HAVE THEY BEEN TO TALK TO OTHER CITY LEADERS AROUND MINNESOTA AS TO HOW EVERYONE'S DEALING WITH THIS AT ALL?

>> INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH ON MONDAY THE CITY COUNCIL PASSED A RESOLUTION 6-1 AFFIRMING THAT THE CITY WAS GOING TO BE -- WAS AFFIRMING THAT THEY WERE WELCOMING AND JUST FOR ALL.

THAT WAS PUT FORWARD BY HUDA IBRAHIM WHO IS THE FIRST SOMALI AMERICAN TO SIT ON THE CITY COUNCIL AND SHE WAS APPOINTED IN 2017 -- SHE WAS APPOINTED IN 2024.

BUT INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH THERE WAS LENGTHY DEBATE ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE.

, EXEC THE IDEA WAS SHOULD THEY BE LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS ARE WELCOME.

>> YES, THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT COUNCIL MEMBER MARK JOHNSON HAD QUESTIONED WHETHER THEY SHOULD TWEAK THE LANGUAGE AT ALL AND DID IT MEAN THAT LAW-ABIDING AND SHOULD THEY PUT IN PEOPLE THAT WERE LEGALLY -- LEGALLY ABLE TO BE THERE.

ONE COUNCIL MEMBER SAID, YOU KNOW, ADMITTED SHE JAYWALKS AND SOMETIMES SPEEDS AND WOULD THAT MEAN SHE WOULD NOT BE WELCOME.

AND I THINK THE CONSENSUS WAS IT WAS TOO MUCH GETTING INTO THE WEEDS, THEY JUST WANTED TO AFFIRM THE COMMUNITY POLICING AGREEMENT FROM 2017, AND, YOU KNOW, JUST MAKE THAT STATEMENT.

AND IT'S NOT LEGALLY BINDING.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING TOO, YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR AND THE POLICE CHIEF, I WONDER HOW POLICING OR HOW INTO THE FUTURE, BECAUSE EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED, DOES THE POLICE CHIEF THINK THAT THIS MIGHT HAVE RESIDUAL EFFECTS WITH THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FOLKS IN ST.

CLOUD AND THEIR LOCAL POLICE?

>> WELL, THAT IS A CONCERN BECAUSE THEY, THROUGH THE COMMUNITY POLICING AGREEMENT THEY HAVE AGREED UPON CONDUCT AND INTERACTION WITH THE PUBLIC ON HOW THEY OULD DO ITH WARRANTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BEFORE JUST GOING IN AND SEARCHING A HOME.

AND AS WE'VE SEEN FEDERAL AGENTS ARE TAKING A DIFFERENT TACK.

AND SO THERE IS A CONCERN THAT THE PUBLIC IS REMEMBER OVER WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT AND THEY MIGHT GET CONFUSED AS TO WHO'S ACTUALLY, IF THE LOCAL POLICE ARE ASSISTING I.C.E.

IN THESE IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENTS OR NOT.

SO THAT IS A CONCERN.

SO DEFINITELY.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

GOOD JOB.

THANK YOU, KAOMI.

>> Eric: GOOD STUFF.

>> Cathy: WE APPRECIATE IT.

WELL, EARLIER THIS MONTH, I SHOULD SAY EARLIER THIS WEEK A MINNESOTA BROADCAST NEWS LEGEND DIED.

RON HANDBERG DIED MONDAY AFTER A YEAR-LONG BATTLE WITH PANCREATIC CANCER.

HE WAS A GIANT IN JOURNALISM.

THE LONG-TIME BROADCASTER SPEND THE MAJORITY OF HIS CAREER AT WCCO-TV AS A REPORTER, NEWS DIRECTOR AND FINALLY A VP AND GENERAL MANAGER.

HANDBERG ALSO WORKED RIGHT HERE AT TWIN CITIES PBS FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, MORE THAN TWO DECADES AAGO, HELPING LAUNCH NEWSNIGHT MINNESOTA.

HE WAS ONE OF THE BROADCAST PIONEERS I TALKED TO FOR THE PBS DOCUMENTARY "BROADCAST WARS."

HERE'S RON TALKING ABOUT THE SCENE TONIGHT THAT WAS A GROUND BREAKING NEWS CAST BACK IN THE '60s HE HELPED LAUNCH.

>> > I'LL NEVER FORGET THE NIGHT I PRODUCED THE NEWS CAST ACTUALLY.

IT WAS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE TWIN CITIES A 45-MINUTE NEWSCAST AT 10:00.

AND THAT FORMAT, THAT LENGTH ALLOWED US TO CHANGE THE NEWS, WEATHER, PORTS, KIND OF FIRM FORMULA HAT EVERYBODY WAS USING.

>> ... FREEZING RAIN.

>> THANKS.

>> WELL, WASN'T IT JUST ABOUT THIS IME LAST YEAR WE HAD FREEZING RAIN?

>> UNTIL THE SCENE TONIGHT I DON'T THINK WE HAD EVER REALLY DOMINATED AT 10:00.

AS YOU MIGHT EXPECT THE HUBBARDS WERE NOT HAPPY TO HAVE BEEN TOPPLED BY THEIR UPSET COMPETITOR.

>> I DON'T IKE SEEING COMPETITION BE SUCCESSFUL.

♪ ♪ >> Cathy: WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK FROM THE NEWS OF THE WEEK AND HAVE A LIVE GOSPEL PERFORMANCE FOR YOU IN JUST A MINUTE.

WHILE I HEAD TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STUDIO, HERE'S ANOTHER RON HANDBERG EXCERPT FROM THE "BROADCAST WARS" DOCUMENTARY ON THE IMPORTANCE OF LOCAL NEWS.

>> NEWS PEOPLE PROVIDE A FUNCTION IN THIS COMMUNITY THAT IS OFTEN TOO LITTLE APPRECIATED, OFTEN MISUNDERSTOOD, BUT IN THE END, DOES AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF GOOD.

♪ >> Cathy: I AM SO RELIEVED TO PRESENT A BRIEF RESPITE FROM THE REALLY HEAVY NEWS OF THIS WHOLE MONTH WITH SOME LIVE GOSPEL MUSIC.

THE SOUND OF GOSPEL CELEBRATES AND HONORS BLACK HISTORY MONTH WITH A CONCERT THIS SUNDAY FEBRUARY 1ST AT THE O'SHAUGHNESSY IN ST.

PAUL.

THE NON-PROFIT SECOND CHANCE OUTREACH HAS BEEN RODUCING THIS COLLECTION OF GOSPEL PERFORMANCES SEVERAL YEARS NOW.

THE REVEREND WILLIAM PIERCE IS WITH US WITH SECOND CHANCE OUTREACH.

YOU HAVE BEEN PRODUCING THIS THING NOW FOR A WHILE.

IS THIS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THIS YEAR?

HOW HAS IT CHANGED OVER THE YEARS I SHOULD SAY?

>> IT'S CHANGED EVERY YEAR.

IT EVOLVES.

WE WROTE THE SHOW IN 2014, PRODUCED IT THE FIRST TIME IN 2018 AT THE NATIONAL BAPTIST CONVENTION.

AND THEN IN 2020, WE HAD TO SCALE IT BACK BECAUSE IT WAS SO BIG.

SO LARGE.

SO WE SCALED IT BACK IN 2020 RIGHT BEFORE COVID.

AND SO WE HAD TO TAKE A BREAK AFTER THAT AND WE CAME BACK IN 2023, '24, '25, AND NOW 2026, BUT EVERY YEAR THERE'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT, WE ADD A NEW ELEMENT EVERY YEAR BECAUSE GOSPEL MUSIC EVOLVES.

>> EXACTLY.

>> SO WE WANT TO SHOW THAT EVOLUTION WITH EVERY YEAR WE PUT THE SHOW ON.

>> Cathy: FOR FOLKS WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT SECOND CHANCE OUTREACH DOES, GIVE US A LITTLE THUMBNAIL.

>> SECOND CHANCE OUTREACH, TRANSFORMING OUR COMMUNITY.

WE WANT TO BRIDGE THAT HEALTH CARE AND FINANCIAL GAP IN OUR COMMUNITY.

WHICHEVER WAY WE AN DO THAT, BUT ART IS A WAY OF DOING THAT, AN OUTWARD EXPRESSION OF AN INWARD FEELING SO WE WANT PEOPLE TO COME OUT AND BE INVOLVED FOR CHANGE, EVERY ASPECT.

>> IF I WANT TICKETS WHERE DO I GO?

>> O'SHAUGHNESSY OR SOUNDSOFGOSPEL.ORG.

>> JAVEETA STEELE, I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, SHE IS HERE.

>> I LOVE YOU TOO.

>> OBVIOUSLY YOU ARE DOING THIS AT A TIME F GREAT UPHEAVAL AND PAIN AND TRAUMA IN THIS CITY.

>> CORRECT.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF A BALM MIGHT GOSPEL MUSIC BE DURING THIS TIME?

>> IT IS AS IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN, IT WAS AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, EVERY REVOLUTION THERE HAS TO BE SOMEWHERE, AND GOSPEL MUSIC SEEMS TO BE THAT PLACE WHERE WE CAN TURN INWARD AND MOVE UPWARD.

I'M SO HONORED TO BE DIRECTING THIS SHOW WITH THIS AMAZING CAST, TEN VOCALISTS AND MUSICIANS AND WE WILL CELEBRATE EVERYBODY FROM ROSETTA THORPE TO SAM COOKE.

SO COME OUT ON OUT AND ENJOY SOME GOOD -- IF YOU NEED YOUR SOUL HEALED WHICH I BELIEVE EVERYBODY DOES.

>> Cathy: OH, YES.

>> COME OUT AND GET REJUVENATED FOR THE FIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO KEEP OUR COUNTRY.

WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.

>> YOU MENTIONED SAM COOK.

I LOVE SAM COOK.

ARE YOU GOING TO SING A SONG BY HIM?

>> YES, Mr.

ARMANDO RICHARDSON WILL BE LEADING "HEM OF HIS GARMENT."

>> Cathy: ENJOY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

♪ ♪ >> SINGING: WELL, THERE WAS A WOMAN DURING BIBLE DAYS SHE HAD BEEN ICK, SICK SO VERY LONG SHE HAD HEARD ABOUT JESUS AS PASSING BY SO SHE JOINED THE GATHERING THRONG AND WHILE SHE WAS PUSHING HER WAY THROUGH SOMEONE ASKED HER, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO?

♪ ♪ SHE SAID IF I COULD JUST TOUCH HIS HEM I KNOW I'LL BE MADE WHOLE ♪ ♪ AND SHE CRIED ... OH, LORD, OH, LORD OH, LORD SHE SAID IF I COULD JUST TOUCH HIS HEM I KNOW I'LL BE MADE WHOLE LISTEN WELL, SHE SPENT HER IF MONEY HERE AND THERE UNTIL SHE HAD NO, NO MORE TO SPARE THE DOCTORS DID ALL THAT THEY COULD BUT THEIR MEDICINE WOULD DO NO GOOD BUT WHEN SHE TOUCHED HIM SAVIOR DID NOT SEE STILL HE TURNED AROUND HE SAID, SOMEONE TOUCHED ME SHE WAS, IT WAS I I JUST WANT TO TOUCH YOUR HEM I KNOW I WILL BE MADE WHOLE WHOA-OH-OH-OH, WHOLE OH, LORD OH, LORD OH, LORD SHE CRIED, OH, LORD SHE SAID IF I COULD JUST TOUCH YOUR HEM I KNOW I'LL BE MADE WHOLE ♪ ♪ >> Eric: WE'RE GOING TO TURN TO THE WORLD OF POLITICS NOW.

THE GOVERNOR'S RACE HEATED UP THIS WEEK AFTER DEMOCRATIC U.S.

SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR JUMPED INTO THE RACE AS EXPECTED.

>> THE KILLINGS OF RENEE GOOD, A MOM OF THREE, AND ALEX PRETTI, A NURSE WHO TOOK CARE OF OUR VETERANS, 3,000 I.C.E.

AGENTS ON OUR STREETS AND IN OUR TOWNS.

>> AMY KLOBUCHAR'S CAMPAIGN ANNOUNCEMENT OPENS WITH THE NEWS OF THE DAY.

>> THESE TIMES CALL FOR LEADERS WHO CAN STAND UP AND NOT BE RUBBER STAMPS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT WHO ARE ALSO WILLING TO FIND COMMON GROUND AND FIX THINGS IN OUR STATE.

>> THE DEMOCRAT SIGNALS THE MODERATION SHE'S KNOWN FOR IN DOUBLE-DIGIT VICTORIES IN STATEWIDE RACES AND FAMILY ROOTS ON THE IRON RANGE.

>> AND I'M RUNNING FOR EVERY MINNESOTAN WHO WANTS I.C.E.

AND ITS ABUSIVE TACTICS OUT OF THE STATE WE LOVE.

>> CAREER POLITICIAN AMY KLOBUCHAR THINKS TIM WALZ HAS BEEN A GREAT GOVERNOR.

>> THE LEADING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE SPEAKER LISA DEMUTH WAS QUICK WITH A CAMPAIGN COMMERCIAL OF HER OWN.

>> WE NEED TO REDUCE HE WASTE WITHIN STATE GOVERNMENT, WE NEED TO REDUCE FRAUD, AND THOSE THAT ARE CAUSING FRAUD AGAINST THE TAXPAYERS NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>> OF THE FIVE STRAW POLLS SO FAR, SHE'S LEADING THE PACK WITH KENDALL QUALLS MAKING A STRONG SHOWING.

>> OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM AS REPUBLICANS, WE HAVE TO GET A CANDIDATE ELECTED.

>> AND CHRIS MADEL DROPPING OUT OF THE RACE THIS WEEK.

>> THE REALITY IS IS THAT THE NATIONAL REPUBLICANS HAVE MADE IT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A REPUBLICAN TO WIN A STATEWIDE ELECTION IN MINNESOTA, IT IS A SIMPLE FACT.

♪ ♪ >> Cathy: A LOT TO TALK ABOUT, GOVERNOR'S RACE, NEXT TUESDAY'S AUCUSES.

BRIAN BAKST, POLITICS EDITOR AT MINNESOTA PUBLIC RADIO NEWS.

LET'S START WITH THAT GOVERNOR RACE.

>> YEAH, LONGEST JANUARY EVER.

ERIC, YOU SHOULD HAVE FOUND THAT NEWS SPIGOT AND TURN IT DOWN A LITTLE BIT.

>> Eric: I'LL WORK ON IT.

>> Cathy: WE WERE WAITING FOR AMY KLOBUCHAR TO JUMP IN, SHE HAD TO BEFORE CAUCUSES, RIGHT?

>> SHE WAS, DEMOCRATS RAN INTO THAT BIG PROBLEM IN 2024 WHEN JOE BIDEN GOT OUT OF AT THE LAST MINUTE AND THEY LID KAMALA HARRIS IN THERE AND TIM WALZ OF COURSE JOINED THE TICKET.

SHE WANTS TO ACTUALLY EARN THE ENDORSEMENT, EARN THE NOMINATION SO THERE WAS A BIG CONCERTED EFFORT ON HER CAMPAIGN'S PART TO GET IN.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK CHRIS MADEL HAS SOME KIND OF A FUTURE IN POLITICS OR DO REPUBLICANS NOT WANT TO SEE HIM AGAIN?

IS >> I'M STRUGGLING TO THINK OF A CANDIDATE THAT GOT IN WITH SO MUCH PROMISE IN THAT PARTY AND GOT OUT SLAMMING THAT PARTY AND SAYING HE DIDN'T WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH THAT PARTY, IF HE WOULD RUN AGAIN I THINK IT WOULD HAVE TO BE A THIRD PARTY AND HE MENTIONED IF HE HAD ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD HE MIGHT WAGE A THIRD PARTY CAMPAIGN, HE'S NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

>> Eric: DIFFERENT OFFICES I GET IT, KLOBUCHAR HAS BEEN A SENATOR, NOW RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR.

SENATE VOTE TOTALS, 56%, 55%.

SHE'S GOT TO HAVE PRETTY HEAVY FAVOR?

>> >> REPUBLICANS ARE REALLY TRYING TO CALIBRATE A MESSAGE AROUND HER SAYING SHE'S A CAREER POLITICIAN OR WALZ THIRD TERM R SHE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT FRAUD.

HER CAMPAIGN IS MAKING THE POINT SHE'S BEEN A PROSECUTOR, SHE'S PROSECUTED CASES OF FRAUD.

IT'S GOING TO BE A LITTLE DIFFICULT I THINK OUT OF THE GATE FOR REPUBLICANS TO GET BACK IN THE GAME.

THEY HAD A BETTER CHANCE WITH A WOUNDED WALZ THAN THEY DO WITH KLOBUCHAR I THINK.

>> U.S.

SENATE RACE, WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE?

>> WELL, WE HAVE MICHELLE TAFOYA AS YOU MENTIONED WHO GOT INTO THE RACE LAST MONTH ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

THAT AT LEAST RAISED HOPES OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVEN'T WON HERE STATEWIDE SINCE 2006.

I'M SURE THERE WILL BE MORE MONEY COMING INTO THE STATE THAN THERE OTHERWISE WOULD.

SHE STILL HAS TO GET THROUGH A FIELD OF REPUBLICANS TO GET THE NOMINATION.

ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE IT'S TURNING INTO A BRAWL AND THE IMMIGRATION ISSUE IS AT THE CENTER OF IT.

, THAT'S WHY I WANT TO ASK.

IT'S NOT A BINARY SITUATION BUT YOU'VE GOT I.C.E., YOU'VE GOT FRAUD.

CAN THEY BOTH SURVIVE 'TIL NOVEMBER OR IS ONE MORE POTENT THAN THE OTHER?

>> ERIC, WE HAVE NINE MONTHS 'TIL THE ELECTION, THE NEWS CYCLE IS MOVING BY THE MINUTE.

IT'S HARD TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT THEN BUT THIS HAS DEFINITELY CHANGED THE DYNAMICS TO SOME DEGREE.

I MEAN, WHEN WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THERE'S BEEN A BIG STORY OR REVELATION ABOUT FRAUD?

THEY WERE COMING UT EVERY DAY AND THE LAST MONTH IT'S BEEN ALL ABOUT IMMIGRATION WHETHER YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE RIGHT MOVE OR NOT THE RIGHT MOVE OR WHETHER THE TACTICS YOU'RE OKAY WITH, AND THEN OF COURSE THE SHOOTINGS JUST DREW A TON OF NATIONAL ATTENTION AND IT'S BEEN ALL IMMIGRATION, THE NATIONAL MEDIA IS CAMPED OUT HERE AND THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE IMMIGRATION KIND OF THE MAIN THEME.

>> Cathy: I WONDER, KSTP CAME OUT WITH THEIR POLL TONIGHT, FRIDAY NIGHT.

TRUMP'S DISAPPROVAL RATING IN MINNESOTA IS 59%.

>> WOW.

>> Cathy: HIS HANDLING OF IMMIGRATION 61% DISAPPROVE.

WITH THOSE NUMBERS HE'S UNDERWATER.

IF YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN GOVERNORN FOR GOVERNOR OR SENATE, I'M WONDERING IF YOU STILL WANT THAT ENDORSEMENT.

>> YOU ASKED LISA DEMUTH THE OTHER DAY, SHE SAID SHE STILL WOULD.

THEY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT GETTING TO THE NOVEMBER BALLOT AND THE CAMPAIGN.

GETTING TO THE NOVEMBER BALLOT MEANS POTENTIALLY COZYING UP TO FOLKS WHO REALLY LIKE DONALD TRUMP AND HEY'RE HAVING A HARD TIME TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THEY CAN SEPARATE FROM HIM.

>> Eric: AUCUS NIGHT TUESDAY.

WHAT DO WE EXPECT?

>> I THINK WE EXPECT A LOT OF TURNOUT.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE YEARS THAT ISSUES OF THE MOMENT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR A POLITICAL VENTING OPPORTUNITY AND ON HE REPUBLICAN SIDE YOU HAVE A COMPETITIVE RACE FOR THE GOVERNOR.

>> AND STRAW POLL.

>> ONLY IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, NEITHER PARTY IS DOING A SENATE STRAW POLL SO WE'RE ONLY GOING TO GET THAT READ ON THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

AS I TALKED ABOUT IN THE PAST THE STRAW POLL AND CAUCUSES CAN DO DO MORE TO CLEAR THE FIELD THAN REALLY SEND SOMEBODY GOING.

WE MIGHT SEE SOME DEPARTURES NEXT WEEK.

>> Cathy: I WAS WONDERING, I WAS HEARING BACKGROUND CHATTER, MIGHT THE I.C.E.

CRACKDOWN MAYBE TAMP DOWN CAUCUS PARTICIPATION IN SOME PLACES?

>> THE D.F.L.

IS DEFINITELY WORRIED ABOUT THAT AND THEY'VE BEEN SENDING MESSAGES OUT ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE DOING.

OBSERVERS THERE, THEY SET UP A LEGAL HOTLINE AND BASICALLY SAID IF YOU'RE COMING TO OUR CAUCUS AS I.C.E., DON'T DO SO WITHOUT A WARRANT.

THEY ARE DEFINITELY TRYING TO SEND THE ESSAGE THAT PLEASE STILL DO PARTICIPATE.

OBVIOUSLY REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO HOPING THAT THEIR FOLKS WHO ARE IN FAVOR OF SOME OF THIS IMMIGRATION ACTION COME OUT AND SHOW THEIR SUPPORT.

>> Eric: WITH ONLY A FEW MINUTES LEFT DO YOU HAVE A RUNNINGMATE POTENTIAL FOR KLOBUCHAR?

WHO ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT?

>> OH, BOY, I HAVEN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THAT.

THERE ARE ALREADY THE PARLOR GAME ABOUT WHO MIGHT REPLACE HER.

I WILL SAY THIS, IF YOU'RE AMY KLOBUCHAR YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT TIPPING YOUR HAND ABOUT WHO MIGHT GET APPOINTED TO YOUR SEAT BECAUSE YOU WANT ALL THE PEOPLE HELPING OUT IN THAT CAMPAIGN THROUGHOUT NOVEMBER AND THEN THEY'LL DECIDE THAT AFTER IF SHE'S ELECTED.

>> Eric: SHE'S GOT FRIENDS ON ALL SIDES AND SHE'S WITH HER FRIENDS.

>> YEAH, THINK OF THIS, TWO NEW SENATORS POTENTIALLY NEXT YEAR.

MINNESOTA'S DELEGATION IN WASHINGTON IS LOSING A LITTLE BIT OF CLOUT.

>> Eric: GETTING THE HOOK.

THANKS, MAN.

>> Cathy: HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

THANKS.

♪ >> I'M GRATEFUL, AS WE RIP FURTHER INTO 2026, THAT I OWN A CANOE, AND THAT I'VE TAKEN IT DOWN A FEW ROUGH RIVERS.

I MEAN THIS LITERALLY BECAUSE RIVER CANOEING FOSTERS AN INSTINCT THAT'S HELPED ME MAINTAIN A SENSE OF PURPOSE.

EVEN WHEN THINGS GET REALLY TURBULENT.

IN A CANOE YOU CAN ALMOST ALWAYS SEE THE ROUGH SPOTS COMING FROM A LONG WAY OFF.

YOU JUST CAN'T HOW BAD THEY'LL BE.

AND THAT'S THE RECENT HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, YEARS AGO, EVEN BEFORE COVID, I THINK A FAIR NUMBER OF US GOT A PRETTY STRONG WHIFF THAT SOMETHING WAS STARTING TO SHIFT.

WE JUST DIDN'T KNOW WHAT OR HOW BAD IT WOULD BE.

AND I'LL ADMIT I SPENT WAY TOO LONG TELLING MYSELF THE RAPIDS WOULDN'T BE THAT BIG A DEAL OR MAYBE WHATEVER'S CAUSING THEM WILL JUST WASH AWAY.

BUT NOW IT'S 2026 AND THOSE ILLUSIONS ARE LONG GONE.

WE ARE IN IT.

AND THIS IS WHERE MY CANOE COMES IN, BECAUSE WHEN YOU'RE FACING REAL-LIFE RAPIDS, YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING VERY COUNTERINTUITIVE.

YOU DON'T FIGHT AGAINST THE CURRENT AND YOU DON'T JUST WHITE-KNUCKLED THE SIDE OF SIDES OF YOUR BOAT AND RIDE IT OUT.

IF YOU WANT TO STAY DRY, YOU PICK A LINE AND PADDLE DOWN RIVER, AGGRESSIVELY.

YOU DO THIS BECAUSE YOUR SPEED IS THE ONLY THING THAT ALLOWS YOU TO NAVIGATE.

NOW, THIS ISN'T A METAPHOR FOR EXHAUSTING YOURSELF.

IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

IT'S A REMINDER TO IGNORE WHAT YOU CAN'T CONTROL AND FOCUS ON THE RIVER IN FRONT OF YOU.

YOU PICK A DESTINATION, SOMETHING THAT REPRESENTS THE WORLD YOU WANT TO BE A PART OF AND YOU GO FOR IT.

WITHOUT LOOKING BACK.

AS IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE A CHANCE.

I GUESS I'LL CALL THIS MY CANOE MINDSET.

AND IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR BRAIN DOING HIS, AND YOUR BRAIN DOING THIS.

ARE MY ACTIONS GOING TO CHANGE THE RIVER?

I HAVE NO IDEA, THE RIVER IS GONNA DO WHAT THE RIVER S GONNA DO.

I'M FOCUSED ON HOLDING MY LINE, AND THAT, EVERYBODY, IS 2026.

PADDLE, PADDLE, PADDLE.

♪ >> Eric: FRIDAY NIGHT, JANUARY 30TH AND THE BURNING QUESTION IS: DID CONGRESS MAKE A DEAL IN TIME TO AVOID A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN?

FIRST TOPIC MANY MANY THAT WE'LL TAP FOR OUR TWO GUESTS HERE TONIGHT.

KATHRYN PEARSON TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.

CINDY RUGELEY HEADS UP THE POLI.

SCI.

DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA DULUTH.

SO THEY'VE STRIPPED OUT THE HOMELAND SECURITY MONEY, THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE -- SENATE'S GOING TO VOTE ON THE REST OF IT BUT IT'S GOT NO SALE IN THE HOUSE.

AND WHERE DO WE STAND?

>> THERE'S A LOT GOING ON.

SO EVERY YEAR CONGRESS NEEDS TO PASS AND THE PRESIDENT NEEDS TO SIGN INTO LAW 12 # ANNUAL APPROPRIATIONS BILLS THAT FUND THE GOVERNMENT.

COMING INTO ALL OF THESE, SIX WERE ALREADY PASSED AND SIGNED INTO LAW.

THEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE STRUCK A COMPROMISE TO DO THE REMAINING BILLS, REMAINING SIX BILLS, THE HOUSE PASSED THEIR VERSION, AND THEN SENATE DEMOCRATS SAID, WAIT A MINUTE, WE WANT SOME SERIOUS CHANGES TO I.C.E.

BEFORE WE'RE WILLING TO GO ALONG WITH THIS.

IT'S REALLY THEIR ONLY LEVERAGE POINT.

SO PRESIDENT TRUMP GOT INVOLVED, THERE WAS A COMPROMISE SO THAT ALL OF THE SPENDING BILLS HAD BEEN PASSED BY THE SENATE ACTUALLY AS OF THIS AFTERNOON, THE REMAINING SPENDING BILLS EXCEPT AS YOU NOTED THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY IS ONLY FOR TWO WEEKS.

THAT GIVES DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, THE PRESIDENT TWO WEEKS TO NEGOTIATE SOME SERIOUS POLICY CHANGES FOR I.C.E.

TIGHTENING WARRANTS, NO MASKS, BODY CAMERAS, SORT OF A LOT OF POLICY CHANGES BUT THE QUESTION IS CAN THEY DO THAT, IN THE MEANTIME THE HOUSE STILL NEEDS TO COME BACK AND VOTE SO THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN THIS WEEKEND AT LEAST.

>> Eric: HAS THE I.C.E.

BUSINESS THROWN EVERYTHING INTO A COCKED HAT HERE?

>> YES IT, REALLY HAS.

I MEAN, CAN THEY GET SOMETHING DONE IN TWO WEEKS?

I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION'S THINKING EVERYTHING WILL COOL DOWN THERE, ALL THE BACKLASH, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL OR NOT AND I THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE PRETTY MUCH DUG IN ON IT.

>> Cathy: YOU BOTH ARE POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, YOU'VE GOT CLASSES, AND I'M WONDERING WHAT YOU THINK, I MEAN, WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR STUDENTS ABOUT THIS WHOLE SITUATION THAT HAS OCCURRED HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES METRO AREA SINCE DECEMBER?

AND THE FIRST, SECOND, FOURTH, AND TENTH AMENDMENTS ARE LL UNDER THE MICROSCOPE HERE IN THE TWIN CITIES.

HOW DO YOU -- HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THIS TO STUDENTS AND TEACH AROUND IT >> THAT'S SUCH A GOOD QUESTION.

I MET WITH STUDENTS JUST ON TUESDAY AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EVERYTHING GOING ON IN MINNEAPOLIS BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS.

IT IS ALL CENTERED HERE AND THEY'RE REALLY TRYING TO GET, YOU KNOW, SORT OF YOUNGER, PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN POLITICS, GET A HANDLE ON THIS.

BOTH WHAT IS GOING ON, WHAT IS GOING ON FOR SOME OF THEIR CLASSMATES WHO CAN'T LEAVE THEIR HOMES, AND THEN WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THEIR FUTURE.

YOU KNOW, SHOULD THEY STILL BE INTERESTED IN SORT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND POLITICS, AND I THINK THIS THROWS A LOT OF THINGS INTO QUESTION.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH, SAME TYPE DEAL.

I MEAN, YOU TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE AMENDMENTS.

YOU LET THEM TALK, WHAT DOES THIS AMENDMENT SAY, WHAT DOES THE FIRST AMENDMENT SAY, WHAT DOES THE FOURTH AMENDMENT SAY.

AND YOU LET THEM TALK ABOUT IT, IN NOT IN TERMS -- YOU TALK ABOUT ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF THE AMENDMENT AND WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW IT APPLIES AND WHAT IT MEANS TO THEM.

AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT IT SO BY HE END OF THE DISCUSSION THEY GENERALLY GENERATE A REAL APPRECIATION FOR THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

SO TO THAT EXTENT I THINK IT'S HEALTHY.

>> ABSOLUTELY, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BILL OF RIGHTS MORE THAN USUAL.

AND TRUST IN GOVERNMENT IS ALWAYS PRETTY LOW, ESPECIALLY CONGRESS ACTUALLY, BUT REALLY THEY'RE SORT OF QUESTIONING HOW IS IT THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS AT ODDS WITH THE GOVERNMENT IN MINNESOTA TO SUCH AN EXTENT.

AND I DO ALSO, YES, THIS IS, WE'RE ALL GRAPPLING WITH THIS.

THIS IS UNPRECEDENTED SO IT'S REALLY STRIKING.

>> Eric: UNDER THE HEADLINE OF NO CRISIS SHOULD BE WASTED, WHYS CAN'T THEY ALL GET TOGETHER AND USE THIS NOW AS THE RUN ONE WAY FOR COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM?

>> WELL, THERE DEFINITELY -- WELL, FIRST, THERE'S A LOT OF SORT OF TRUST THAT HAS BEEN LOST.

AND SO THAT IS JUST MAKING THE SORT OF PARTISAN DIFFERENCES AND POLICY DIFFERENCES THAT ALREADY EXIST WHEN THERE'S A LACK OF TRUST, IT'S HARDER TO NEGOTIATE.

BUT CERTAINLY CONGRESS HAS FAILED FOR YEARS TO ENACT MAJOR IMMIGRATION REFORM, EVEN IT HAS BEEN THE PRIORITY OF SOME PAST PRESIDENTS, I'M THINKING OF GEORGE BUSH.

AND SO IMMIGRATION REFORM IS CHALLENGING WHEN THE PARTIES ARE DOING WELL.

AND SO I THINK THERE WILL BE DISCUSSIONS OF THAT, BUT I'M NOT OVERLY OPTIMISTIC.

>> Eric: DO THEY WANT THE ISSUE OR DO THEY WANT A SOLUTION?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT INITIALLY THEY WANTED THE ISSUE BUT I THINK THAT VERY QUICKLY THE SOLUTION IS BECOMING THE ISSUE, AND I MEAN I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LOOK AT -- YOU HEAR IT MORE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE RIGHT NOW SAYING, WELL, STOP TALKING ABOUT -- START TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE NEED TO DO, START THROWING OUT PROPOSALS.

AND SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO START BECOMING MORE OF AN ISSUE GOING FORWARD ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE THAN IT IS EVEN THE REPUBLICAN SIDE.

>> AND REPUBLICANS ALSO HAVE INCENTIVES TO TRY TO WORK ON THIS THAT THEY DIDN'T BEFORE.

SO IF YOU LOOK AT POLLING PREVIOUS TO THE SURGE IN MINNEAPOLIS AND MINNESOTA, IMMIGRATION WAS AN ISSUE THAT REPUBLICANS POLLED MUCH BETTER ON THAN DEMOCRATS, DEFINITELY ABOUT 60% OF THE PUBLIC THOUGHT REPUBLICANS HANDLED THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION BETTER.

NOW THAT IS FLIPPED AND I THINK THAT THAT COULD INCENTIVIZE SOME COMPROMISE.

>> Cathy: LISTEN, I ASK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU HEARD ME ASK BRIAN ABOUT THIS, THE KSTP SURVEY USA POLL OUT HERE ON FRIDAY NIGHT, THIS IS IN MINNESOTA NOW, 61% OF MINNESOTANS DISAPPROVING THE PRESIDENT'S HANDLING ON IMMIGRATION, HIS APPROVAL RATING IS PRETTY LOW, KIND OF UNDERWATER HERE.

I'M WONDERING WITH THE MIDTERMS AHEAD, WHAT KIND OF -- HOW ARE THESE UMBERS GOING TO REFLECT ANYTHING GOING FORWARD FOR REPUBLICANS?

IS >> I THINK PARTICULARLY HERE, I THINK IT MIGHT OUGHT TO WAKE HIM UP.

I THINK YOU SAW A LITTLE BIT OF IN THE ANNOUNCEMENTS WHEN SENATOR KLOBUCHAR GOT IN, SHE TENDED TO COUCH A LOT OF HER REMARKS IN TERMS OF WHO'S GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS ADMINISTRATION, WHO'S GOING TO STAND UP TO THIS PRESIDENT.

AND ON THE OTHER SIDE IT WAS, WELL, THE FRAUD ISSUE.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO -- I THINK THAT SHE'S GOT AN ISSUE THERE THAT, YOU KNOW, LOOK, WE NEED OMEBODY THAT'S STRONG ENOUGH TO STAND UP TO HIM AND I THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG ISSUE IN THIS RACE.

AND AGAIN, IT'S NINE MONTHS OFF, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE I.C.E.

INVASION CHANGED OBVIOUSLY THE WHOLE EXTURE, THE WHOLE TENURE OF THIS RACE.

I MEAN, I THINK BEFORE, FRAUD WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK THAT -- I DON'T KNOW F THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE NOW.

I THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE RAUD THE ISSUE AND I THINK SHE'S GOING TO -- THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO TRY TO MAKE TRUMP THE ISSUE.

>> Eric: WHOLESALE RETIREMENTS COMING IN THE HOUSE?

>> POTENTIALLY.

I MEAN, CERTAINLY THIS IS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, -- MIDTERM ELECTIONS ARE TOUGH FOR THE PARTY OF THE PRESIDENT IN A GOOD YEAR, BUT WITH AN UNPOPULAR PRESIDENT IT JUST MAKES IT ALL HE HARDER FOR REPUBLICANS AND THEN ADD TO THIS, YOU KNOW, A STATE THAT IS TRAUMATIZED.

SO I THINK THAT WE MAY SEE MORE RETIREMENTS, SORT OF STRATEGICALLY, PEOPLE WHO EITHER DON'T WANT TO CONTINUE TO SERVE IN AN INSTITUTION THAT'S DYSFUNCTIONAL, OR IF IT LOOKS LIKE A RACE THAT'S HARDER TO WIN.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS SHE TOUCHED ON JUST THEN THAT I'D LIKE TO GO BACK ON BEFORE YOUR NEXT QUESTION IS THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T TRUST GOVERNMENT, BUT I THINK NOW IT'S GOTTEN WORSE THAN THAT, I THINK THERE'S SOME INSTITUTIONAL LEGITIMACY QUESTIONS THAT HAVE COME INTO PLAY, AND THOSE ARE LONG-TERM AND THEY'RE HARD TO CORRECT.

AND I MEAN, IT'S MORE THAN -- I MEAN, YOU LOOK AT THE THING WITH THE INVESTIGATIONS WITH THE DOJ.

LEGITIMACY IS A PROCESS, IT'S NOT AN OUTCOME.

AND THE PROCESS HAS CHANGED FOR THIS.

AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S MORE THAN, WELL, WE DON'T TRUST THE TRUMP DOJ ANYMORE, IT'S WE DON'T TRUST THE INSTITUTIONS AND THAT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.

>> WHO WON THE MIDTERM REAPPORTIONMENT WAR?

>> IT'S NOT QUITE OVER YET, REPUBLICANS BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT I THINK THEY THOUGHT WHEN THEY STARTED THIS BECAUSE OF THIS AND CALIFORNIA AND A COUPLE STATES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOUPLE STATES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT LE STATES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GO STATES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOINTATES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING TES HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALS HAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONHAVE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG VE SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EV SAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EVENAID WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EVEN TD WE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EVEN THOWE'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EVEN THOUG'RE- NOT GOING ALONG EVEN THOUGH E- NOT GOING ALONG EVEN THOUGH THE PRESIDENT IS ASKING US TO.

THIS REAPPORTIONMENT, THIS UNUSUAL MID-DECADE CYCLE IS GOING TO NET -- SOME SEATS.

>> Eric: OKAY, WELL, WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME.

WE HAVE RUN ALONG AGAIN TONIGHT.

WE'LL HAVE THE ANSWER TO THE IND DEX FILE QUESTION NEXT WEEK.

JUST ENOUGH TIME FOR ONE MORE GOSPEL TUNE BEFORE WE GO.

TAKE A LISTEN.

BE BACK NEXT WEEK AND BE CAREFUL.

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