>> EACH LEGISLATIVE SESSION, LAWMAKERS IN THE STATE HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE TO VET THOUSANDS OF BILLS IN A MATTER OF A FEW MONTHS.

EACH YEAR IT LEADS TO CHAOS WITH LAST MINUTE CHANGES OR BILLS FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS.

SOME SAY OUR LEGISLATURE SHOULD BE FULL-TIME.

HEAR BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT, NEXT ON "INSIGHTS."

>> HAWAI'I STATE LEGISLATURE IS COMPRISED OF 51 IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

IT'S PART-TIME WITH LAWMAKERS MEETING WITH JUST 60 DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR DURING THE REGULAR SESSION IS THAT ENOUGH TIME FOR OFFICIALS TO GOVERN AND MAKE DECISIONS ON COMPLEX ISSUES?

SHOULD HAWAI'I STATE LEGISLATURE BE FULL-TIME MEETING THROUGHOUT THE YEAR?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST OF "INSIGHTS" ON PBS HAWAI'I STARTS NOW.

>> Yunji: ALOHA, AND WELCOME TO "INSIGHTS" ON PBS HAWAI'I.

I'M YUNJI DE NIES.

EVERY YEAR, THE HAWAI'I STATE LEGISLATURE CONVENES IN MID-JANUARY AND RUNS THROUGH LATE APRIL OR EARLY MAY.

LAWMAKERS ARE RESTRICTED TO A 60-DAY SESSION WHICH LIMITS THEIR INFLUENCE MOST OF THE YEAR AND FORCES MANY CRITICAL DECISIONS TO BE MADE UNDER DEADLINE PRESSURE.

PROPOSALS HAVE BEEN INTRODUCED FOR LAWMAKERS TO MEET ON A MORE CONTINUOUS BASIS.

SUPPORTERS SAY THIS WOULD ALLOW FOR MORE TIME TO STUDY BILLS AND INCREASE TRANSPARENCY.

BUT OPPONENTS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT COSTS AND ALTERING THE CURRENT IDENTITY OF BEING A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE.

OUR PANEL TONIGHT WILL DEBATE THE PROS AND CONS.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN E-MAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAI'I FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE GENE WARD IS THE THE MINORITY POLICY LEADER IN THE STATE HOUSE.

ELECTED IN 2006, HE REPRESENTS DISTRICT 18, WHICH INCLUDES PORTLOCK, HAWAI'I KAI AND KALAMA VALLEY.

HE)S ALSO A VIETNAM VETERAN WHO SERVED AS A TRANSLATOR AND INTERPRETER.

STANLEY CHANG WAS ELECTED TO THE STATE SENATE IN 2016 AFTER SERVING FOUR YEARS ON THE HONOLULU CITY COUNCIL.

THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR REPRESENTS A WIDE AREA OF EAST HONOLULU THAT RUNS FROM KAPAHULU TO HAWAI'I KAI.

PRIOR TO SERVING IN OFFICE, HE PRACTICED LAW, SPECIALIZING IN REAL ESTATE LAW.

DEMOCRATIC SENATOR JOY SAN BUENAVENTURA REPRESENTS THE DISTRICT OF PUNA.

PRIOR TO BEING ELECTED TO THE SENATE, SHE SERVED IN THE STATE HOUSE.

SHE GREW UP ON O'AHU BUT HAS LIVED ON HAWAI'I ISLAND FOR THE PAST 30 YEARS.

SHE IS A LAWYER AND A FORMER JUDGE AND IS ALSO AN AVID PHOTOGRAPHER.

AND JUDITH MILLS WONG IS THE VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF HAWAII.

THE NON-PARTISIAN POLITICAL ORGANIZATION WORKS TO IMPROVE OUR SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT AND IMPACT PUBLIC POLICIES THROUGH CITIZEN EDUCATION AND ADVOCACY.

THANK YOU, ALL, FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.

WE'RE EXCITED TO DIVE INTO THIS TOPIC.

REPRESENTATIVE WARD, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE ADVANTAGES ARE OF HAVING THE LEGISLATURE RUN IN THE TIME FRAME THAT IT DOES AS IS.

>> I THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SAY WHAT ARE THE DISADVANTAGES BECAUSE I'M NOT A STRONG ADVOCATE OF DOING IT BUT THE ADVANTAGES I THINK ARE ASSUMPTIONS THAT, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO BE MORE THOROUGH IN OUR ANALYSIS OF LEGISLATION.

BUT CASE IN POINT, 70% OF THE PEOPLE WANT TERM LIMITS AND WE REJECTED IT.

MY POINT IS THE ARGUMENT, THE WAY WE STRUCTURE OUR TIME, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE TIME BUT THE WAY WE STRUCTURE IT.

IF YOU'LL REMEMBER -- I KNOW WE HAVE CHAIRS HERE -- I CAN KILL A BILL ANYTIME I WANT.

LEGISLATURE RISES ON INDIVIDUALS.

MY POINT IS THIS, TIME EXPANDS OR CONTRACTS DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH TIME YOU HAVE TO ACCOMPLISH AN ISSUE.

WE CAN GO FASTER OR SLOWER DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH IS AVAILABLE, SO IF WE DO LONGER, I MEAN, IT'S LIKE THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH ON STEROIDS.

I THINK WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE EQUAL BRANCHES.

WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO OVERPOWER THEM.

SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING, I THINK WE'LL HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION ON, BUT JUST SO YOU KNOW, MY CARDS ARE ON THE TABLE.

AS YOU CAN SEE, I HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT BEING AGAINST THE PARTICULAR ISSUE BUT IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE AND TO SAY I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO SAY YOU'RE GOING TO CAUSE YOUR $25 MILLION A YEAR ON THE COST OF THE LEGISLATURE TO GO TO $75 MILLION AND YOUR SALARY WILL GO THROUGH -- WHAT DO WE MAKE, STANLEY?

$72,000?

YOU'LL GO TO $140,000?

I DON'T THINK TAXPAYERS ARE READY FOR THAT.

>> Yunji: SENATOR CHANG, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

THE ADVANTAGE TO GOING YEAR-ROUND?

>> I DON'T THINK THE LAW MAKING PROCESS SHOULD BE A RACE.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE DELIBERATIVE.

THE REASON WE CAN'T BE DELIBERATIVE TODAY, THE REASON WHY OFTEN A SMALL NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE HAVE THE POWER TO KILL BILLS OFTEN WITHOUT RECOURSE UNTIL THE NEXT YEAR IS BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A SYSTEM WITH SO MANY ARTIFICIAL DEADLINES.

WE HAVE TO INTRODUCE ALL OF OUR BILLS BY LATE JANUARY AS THOUGH NO ISSUES EVER COME UP IN THE STATE OF HAWAI'I AFTER JANUARY.

EVERY WEEK THAT GOES BY IS ANOTHER SERIES OF DEADLINES AT WHICH THOUSANDS, HUNDREDS, DOZENS OF BILLS WILL NOT MAKE IT.

AND FRANKLY I WOULD SAY IN MOST CASES WORKING WITH MY COLLEAGUES, I FIND THAT WHEN BILLS DIE, IT'S USUALLY NOT A NEFARIOUS SITUATION BUT SIMPLY THERE ISN'T ENOUGH TIME TO WORK OUT SOMETHING THAT'S AGREEABLE TO ALL THE PARTIES.

I HAVE SERVED ON THE HONOLULU CITY COUNCIL WHERE THERE WAS A CONTINUOUS SESSION ESSENTIALLY, AND WE ALWAYS HAD THE LUXURY OF SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT?

IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S SOME DISAGREEMENT NOW.

WHY DON'T THE STAKEHOLDERS TAKE THE TIME TO CONFER AND COME BACK TO US NEXT MONTH WITH LANGUAGE WE CAN ALL LIVE WITH?

I SAW THAT PROCESS WORK REALLY WELL AT THE CITY COUNCIL.

WE JUST DON'T HAVE THAT LUXURY AT THE LEGISLATURE, AND THAT'S MY BIGGEST CONCERN.

>> Yunji: SENATOR SAN BUENAVENTURA, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

WHERE DO YOU FIND YOURSELF?

>> I FIND MYSELF AGAINST STANLEY CHANG SURPRISINGLY ON THIS.

>> OH, WE'RE ON THIS SIDE!

>> WELL, THE REALITY IS WE ARE CITIZEN LEGISLATORS.

AND I RAN FOR OFFICE BECAUSE I DID NOT LIKE POLITICIANS BEING PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE NO CONCEPT OF WHAT IT IS TO BE WORKING AS A WORKING CITIZEN.

OK?

WHEN I CAME IN, THEY HAD NO IDEA THAT THERE WAS NO WHAT WE CALL A QUALIFIED -- >> Yunji: WE'RE HAVING AN AUDIO ISSUE.

I WANT YOU TO HOLD THAT THOUGHT.

WHILE THEY FIX THAT, I'M GOING TO PIVOT TO JUDITH.

THEY'RE GOING TO FIX YOUR MIC AND WE'LL GET RIGHT BACK TO YOU.

WHILE THEY'RE TAKING CARE OF THE AUDIO ISSUE -- I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT -- JUDITH WE LOOK AT THE BILLS INTRODUCED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SESSION AND ALL THE ONES THAT DIE THAT SENATOR CHANG WAS TALKING ABOUT, IS THAT A GOOD METRIC WITH HOW THE LEGISLATURE IS?

IS THAT HOW WE SHOULD MEASURE THEIR SUCCESS?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE METRICS WE MIGHT TAKE A LOOK AT AS UNDERSTANDING WHETHER WE'RE BEING SUCCESSFUL OR NOT.

BUT I THINK ONE OF THE POINTS THAT SENATOR CHANG HAS BROUGHT UP THE IDEA THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO COME BACK AND SAY, RESEARCH THIS AND SEE HOW IT WILL FIT WITH OTHER BILLS AND BRING THIS BACK IN, BECAUSE THE DEADLINES ARE SO VICIOUS, AND HAVING BEEN A TEACHER, I RECOGNIZE DEADLINES DO FOCUS THE MIND BUT IT IS -- WE'VE SEEN JUST A CASCADE OF STOPS THAT PREVENT BILLS FROM GOING FORWARD, THAT PREVENT GOOD BILLS FROM GOING FORWARD, SO I THINK THERE IS SOME ADVANTAGE TO THE LONGER, MORE LESS COMPRESSED APPROACH TO BEING ABLE TO CONSIDER THE BILLS.

>> Yunji: OK, WELL, WE WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU NOW.

THEY DID FIX YOUR MIC.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.

THERE WAS SOME AUDIO ISSUES IN THE BACK SO LET'S START THAT AGAIN.

YOU WERE SAYING YOU DISAGREE WITH SENATOR CHANG.

WHY IS THAT?

>> LIKE I SAID, I CAME INTO THE OFFICE BECAUSE I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE LEGISLATURE KNEW WHAT A WORKING PERSON GOES THROUGH EVERY DAY REGARDING THE LAWS THAT COME IN, AND I DISAGREE WITH BOTH OF THEM BECAUSE WE HAVE BILLS THAT COME ALL THE TIME, THE SAME BILLS BEING DELIBERATED OVER.

AND WHAT THE FALLACY OF THE PART-TIME LEGISLATURE IS THAT WE DON'T WORK FULL-TIME.

THE REALITY IS WE DO WORK FULL-TIME.

>> AMEN!

>> OK?

THE 60 DAYS IS THE SESSION.

THE REST OF THE NINE MONTHS OR 10 MONTHS IS WE'RE OUT IN THE FIELD TALKING TO OUR CONSTITUENTS TO KNOW WHAT IT IS THAT THEY NEED.

IF WE ARE IN -- I LIVE IN PUNA.

IT TAKES ME FOUR HOURS ROUND TRIP TO GO TO MY HOME TO THE STATE CAPITOL.

IF YOU'RE SECLUDING ME FROM MY CONSTITUENCY BY MAKING ME STAY IN THE STATE CAPITOL THE ENTIRE YEAR, I'M NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF MY DISTRICT.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEIR DAY-TO-DAY PROBLEMS ARE.

IF YOU PREVENT ME FROM GOING TO THESE FORUMS ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL TO FIND OUT WHAT IS WORKING ON THE OTHER STATES, I'M LESS EFFECTIVE AS A LEGISLATOR TO LET MY COLLEAGUES KNOW WHAT HAS WORKED IN OTHER STATES THAT WE SHOULD LEARN FROM.

I DISAGREE WITH THEM BECAUSE BILLS DO COME BACK IF IT IS A GOOD BILL AND BAD BILLS SHOULD DIE.

AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HUNDREDS OF BILLS THAT COME IN, LIKE 3/4 OF THEM ARE DUPLICATIVE.

A LOT OF THEM NEED TO BE COMBINED.

WE NEED GOOD BILLS TO GO THROUGH.

A LOT OF THE TIMES IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE BILLS, IT'S WORKING GROUPS, BECAUSE WE HAVE INFORMAL AND FORMAL WORKING GROUPS.

IN FACT, I ALREADY STARTED TALKING ABOUT HAVING INFORMAL WORKING GROUPS TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO ABOUT REDUCING THE POPULATION IN THE STATE HOSPITAL WHERE 70% OF THE POPULATION THERE DO NOT NEED TO BE THERE ESPECIALLY WITH THE OVERCROWDING AND THE SAFETY PROBLEMS WE HAVE WITH THE EMPLOYEES.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE SAFE.

THE BILLS THAT ARE COMING UP DON'T ADDRESS THIS ISSUE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KNOW THE DAY-TO-DAY PROBLEMS OF THE PROSECUTOR AND THE PUBLIC DEFENDER REFUSING TO FILE THE MOTIONS NECESSARY TO GET THE 70% OUT OF THE STATE HOSPITAL AND BACK INTO THE SYSTEM.

OK. THAT IS WHY WE NEED TO HAVE THE NINE MONTHS DELIBERATIVE PROCESS.

THAT'S ONLY ONE.

THE OTHER ONE, OF COURSE, THAT I'M WORKING ON IS SOCIAL WORKER CHILD ABUSE ISSUES WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT.

WE HEAR ONLY WHAT THE ADVOCATES AND THE SOCIAL WORKERS WHEN WE GO INTO SESSION WHAT THEY WANT US TO HEAR.

WHAT WE REALLY NEED TO KNOW ARE WHAT THE DAY-TO-DAY SOCIAL WORKERS FACE EVERY DAY.

AND ON THE BIG ISLAND WHERE WE ARE FACED WITH FOUR-HOUR ROUND TRIP VISITS BY SOCIAL WORKER TO A CASE SITE AND ESPECIALLY WHERE CHILDREN ARE SPLIT UP, WE ARE SEEING OVERWORKED SOCIAL WORKERS WHO ARE UNABLE TO SEE THE KIND OF ABUSE THAT WE NEED THEM TO SEE.

AND WHY IS IT THAT WE'RE NOT HAVING THE VACANCIES FILLED UP?

ALL WE'RE HEARING FROM ARE THE BUREAUCRATS WHY WE CAN'T FILL THE VACANCIES!

WE NEED GO THERE ON THE STREETS TO FIND OUT WHY IT IS PEOPLE ARE REFUSING TO FILL IN APPLICATIONS AND STAY IN THEIR JOBS.

THESE ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS WE AS LEGISLATORS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING WITH THE NINE MONTHS THAT WE ARE NOT STUCK IN THE SQUARE BUILDING DOING WHAT OTHER -- WHAT THE VARIOUS ADVOCATES WANT US TO DO AND NOT KNOWING WHAT THE DAY-TO-DAY PEOPLE REALLY NEED US TO LEARN.

>> Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE -- I HEARD YOU SAY AMEN WHEN SHE SAID THAT IT'S A FULL-TIME JOB.

>> I LOVE WHAT THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN DO.

THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS DO.

I LOVE WHAT YOU GUYS DO, BUT I THINK FROM WHAT SHE SAID, THE IMPLICATION IS WE HAVE A FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE LOBBYISTS COMING OUT OF OUR OFFICES LEFT, RIGHT, FRONT AND CENTER.

RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE A VERY IMPORTANT PART.

WE ALL KNOW THEY EDUCATE US AND TWIST OUR ARMS SOMETIMES.

SOMETIMES THEY DON'T DO MUCH OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN BEING THERE BUT BEING IN THEIR PRESENCE IS IMPORTANT SO TO GIVE LEGISLATORS MORE TIME TO HAVE MORE SPECIAL INTERESTS BROUGHT INTO THE SESSIONS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

AGAIN, WHEN YOU -- ARE YOU A LOBBYIST AT THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS?

>> I TESTIFY.

I'M NOT A LOBBYIST.

>> CAN YOU IMAGINE TESTIFYING 12 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR?

>> WELL, THAT'S ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I HAVE IS HOW THIS WOULD AFFECT -- ACTUALLY AT SOME POINT, I WANT TO GO BACK TO HOW IT AFFECTS THE REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE OTHER ISLANDS BUT ALSO HOW IT WOULD AFFECT ALL THE DEPARTMENTS, DOE, DOT, PUBLIC SERVICE... ALL OF THEM.

RIGHT NOW, WHEN YOU'RE IN SESSION, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE UP THERE EVERY SINGLE DAY TESTIFYING, ANSWERING QUESTIONS, PARTICIPATING IN THE PROCESS.

THAT'S TIME THEY'RE NOT BACK IN THEIR OFFICE DOING WHAT YOU CHARGED THEM TO DO.

SO I WONDER -- AND MAYBE YOU CAN ADDRESS THIS -- WHETHER THIS PROCESS WOULD PERHAPS MAKE IT EASIER ON THEM BY SPREADING OUT THOSE OBLIGATIONS OR WHETHER IT WOULD ACTUALLY ADD TO THEIR BURDEN BY CALLING THEM TO BE THERE ON A MORE CONSTANT BASIS.

WE HAVEN'T REALLY -- EXCUSE ME -- WE HAVEN'T REALLY HEARD FROM YOU ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD SEE THAT.

I PRESUME YOU WOULDN'T THINK PEOPLE WOULD BE HERE 100% OF THE TIME ALL YEAR LONG BUT THAT THEY WOULD MEET REGULARLY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

>> REQUIRED ONLY ONCE A MONTH IF I CAN CHIME IN.

>> SENATOR CHANG, PLEASE CLARIFY FOR US.

>> YEAH, SO, I THINK THAT'S RIGHT, JUDITH.

I THINK WE ALL SHARE THE SAME GOALS THAT REPRESENTATIVES BE CLOSELY ATTUNED TO THEIR DISTRICTS AND ALSO ORDINARY MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND NOT JUST THE PAID LOBBYISTS OR THE SPECIAL INTERESTS HAVE ACCESS TO THE BUILDING.

THE PROBLEM NOW IS THAT WITH 72 OR 48 HOURS ON THE HOUSE OR NOW 24 HOURS NOTICE FOR OUR CONFERENCE COMMITTEE HEARINGS, MOST ORDINARY PEOPLE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO WEIGH IN.

THAT'S WHY THE LOBBYISTS ARE OFTEN THE ONLY VOICES THAT WE HEAR.

THE LOBBYISTS AND THE STATE AGENCIES.

SO BY OFFERING GREATER NOTICE LIKE THE COUNTY COUNCILS THAT OFFERS SIX DAYS' NOTICE, THAT GIVES TIME FOR PEOPLE TO WEIGH IN.

THE COUNCILS COULD HOLD THEIR MEETINGS AT ANY TIME.

THEY MEET USUALLY ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH.

THEY HAVE AN OFF WEEK AND THEN THEY COME BACK FOR COMMITTEE HEARINGS.

SO THEY HAVE A MUCH GREATER FLEXIBILITY.

WHEN I WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL, IT CONVENED NOT JUST HERE IN URBAN HONOLULU BUT IN KAPOLEI AT KAPOLEI LEI.

THERE'S MUCH MORE FLEXIBILITY TO SCHEDULE THE CALENDAR THAT YOU WOULDN'T BE IN DOWNTOWN HONOLULU 50 WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR BUT HALF OF THE WEEKS OUT OF THE YEAR.

UNDER A CONTINUOUS SESSION, A LEGISLATOR COULD FLY TO HONOLULU ONCE OR TWICE A MONTH AND HAVE A COUPLE OF DAYS OF MEETINGS AND HAVE THE REST OF THEIR TIME TO SPEND IN THEIR DISTRICTS AND OTHER CAREERS IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

THE WAY THE LEGISLATURE IS CURRENTLY SCHEDULED, WE KIND OF DISAPPEAR INTO A BLACK HOLE FROM JANUARY THROUGH MAY.

AND MAYBE THERE ARE SOME EMPLOYERS THAT WOULD BE OK WITH THAT TYPE OF A PART-TIME SCHEDULE BUT OUR COUNTERPARTS ON THE COUNTY COUNCILS WHO HAVE THIS SPREAD OUT YEAR-ROUND SCHEDULE, MANY OF THEM CAN AND DO HAVE SECOND JOBS AS WELL, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF YOU MISS FOUR DAYS A MONTH OR FOUR DAYS A MONTH ARE GOING INTO THE COUNTY COUNCIL OR LEGISLATIVE JOB, THAT LEAVES YOU WITH THE REST OF THE MONTH TO COMPLETE YOUR DUTIES.

SO I THINK IT'S -- IT REALLY DEPENDS ON HOW THE CALENDAR IS SCHEDULED.

I CERTAINLY WOULD NOT BE THE ONE ARGUING FOR 2,000 HOURS EVERY SINGLE BUSINESS DAY OF THE YEAR THAT THE LEGISLATURE WOULD BE IN SESSION.

>> Yunji: I WANT TO BRING IN THE AUDIENCE.

SENATOR, I'D LOVE FOR TO YOU TAKE THIS ONE.

A FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE COULD PROVIDE MORE ROUTINE AND EXACTING OVERSIGHT OF EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENT SPENDINGS AND OPERATIONS NOW DEPICTED AS BULLYING IN HAWAI'I'S STALE POLITICAL CULTURE.

HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN IN CURRENT TIME CONSTRAINTS.

IF YOU WERE FULL-TIME, THERE'D BE MORE OVERSIGHT.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S NECESSARILY SO BECAUSE AT LEAST FOR THE SENATE, WE ALREADY HAVE THE SPECIAL SESSIONS WHERE WE APPROVE AND CONFIRM VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.

THOSE VARIOUS BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS WE HAVE HEARINGS AND WE QUESTION THEM AS TO WHAT IT IS THAT THEY ARE OVERSEEING AS IT IS.

YOU KNOW, SO IF -- YOU KNOW, I KNOW THAT THE PUBLIC SEES ONLY SNAP SHOTS WHAT THEY SEE IN THE NEWS, BUT AS FAR AS THE BUDGET HEARINGS, THEY START WAY BEFORE SESSION STARTS.

AND WHEN I TALK ABOUT GOING TO THE VARIOUS DISTRICTS, IF YOU LOOK AT OUR CHAIR, THEY HAVE VISITS TO THE VARIOUS DISTRICTS.

AT THOSE MEETINGS, THEY DO TALK ABOUT THEIR BUDGETS.

THEY DO TALK ABOUT THEIR WANTS.

THEY DO TALK ABOUT THOSE LAPSES.

SO THERE IS OVERSIGHT ALREADY.

THERE COULD BE MORE.

THERE COULD BE LESS.

YOU KNOW?

THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY.

ALTHOUGH YOU SEE IT AS ONLY 60 CASES, THE REALITY IS -- 60 DAYS, THE REALITY IS WE DO WORK YEAR ROUND.

THE GOOD THING ABOUT THE 60 DAYS IS WE DO HAVE A DEADLINE WHERE WE NEED TO FISH OR CUT BAIT, WHERE WE NEED TO MAKE DECISIONS, WHERE BUDGETS NEED TO PASS SO THAT THERE IS CERTAINTY WITH THE NONPROFITS WITH THE VARIOUS DEPARTMENTS AS TO WHAT THEY NEED TO BUDGET FOR OVER THE NEXT TWO YEARS.

>> Yunji: DO YOU AGREE OF BASICALLY HAVING THE PRESSURE OF THE DEADLINE MAKES IT MORE PRODUCTIVE?

>> EXACTLY.

AND THE FOREFATHERS SAID THERE'S THREE BRANCHES, LEGISLATIVE, EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIARY.

THIS PARTICULAR FULL-TIME FOR HAWAI'I WHICH IS A SMALL STATE IS PUTTING THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH ON STEROIDS.

WE WILL THEN BE OVERSIGHTING, LOOKING AT EVERYBODY AND KIND OF FLEXING OUR MUSCLES.

WE'RE EQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW.

AND WHEN THE GOOD SENATOR SAYS THAT, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ABLE TO PUT BETTER LEGISLATION ON IT.

TELL THE PEOPLE OF HAWAI'I THE 64% PAY INCREASE IS BECAUSE YOU GUYS MEET FULL-TIME.

PEOPLE WILL SAY BETTER YOU MEET LESS OF THE TIME TO HAVE BETTER LEGISLATION.

LET'S BE VERY FRANK.

THE APPROVAL RATING OF THE HAWAI'I STATE LEGISLATURE IS 18%.

TO SAY WE'LL GO FULL-TIME AND GET MORE APPROVAL RATING BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL LIKE IT, THEY WANTED IT AS WE SAID EARLIER TERM LIMITS.

WE DIDN'T GIVE THEM THAT.

WE TEND TO FUNCTION NOT CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE LEGISLATION AND THE CONSTITUENTS AS THE SENATOR FROM THE BIG ISLAND SAID, BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE'RE PREOCCUPIED WITH THINGS THAT ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

MY SENSE IS IF WE DID HAVE A FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE, THE QUALITY WOULDN'T GO UP.

JUST THE QUANTITY OF HOURS AND GOING THROUGH THE MOTIONS.

>> Yunji: INTERESTING.

PLEASE, GO AHEAD, SENATOR.

>> I WANT TO CHIME IN ON THE STAFFING ISSUE AND ALSO THE BALANCE OF POWERS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE GREATEST CHALLENGES FOR MYSELF AS A LEGISLATOR.

NOWHERE IN OUR PROPOSALS DO WE CALL FOR AN INCREASE IN LEGISLATOR PAY, BUT THE REALITY IS BECAUSE THE LEGISLATOR IS -- LEGISLATURE IS SO-CALLED PART-TIME, OUR STAFF ARE PAID ON A PART-TIME BASIS.

I HAVE TWO YEAR-ROUND STAFF AND NONE COULD AFFORD TO HAVE A CAR.

I DON'T EXPECT THAT ANY OF THEM SEE LEGISLATIVE STAFF AS YEARS IF NOT DECADES LONG CAREER.

AS A RESULT, WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE, THE INSTITUTIONAL EXPERTISE THAT NEEDS TO BE BUILT UP OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS.

IF I HAVE A QUESTION, I CAN ONLY REALLY ASK EITHER A LOBBYIST OR THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AGENCIES WHICH CEDES AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF POWER TO THOSE TWO ENTITIES BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT'S BEEN AROUND FOR A LONG TIME.

THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE DOING THE WORK ALL YEAR ROUND.

I THINK WHEN THE LEGISLATURE MEETS FOR ONLY A FEW MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, WHEN IT CHOOSES TO PAY ITS OWN STAFF AT SUCH A LOW LEVEL THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BUILD UP INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERTISE, WE'RE CEDING THAT ACCOUNTABILITY AND OVERSIGHT ROLE THAT THE FOUNDING FRAMERS OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM HAVE GIVEN TO US AND, INDEED, THE FRAMERS OF THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDED FOR A YEAR-ROUND CONGRESS WHICH DOES MEET YEAR-ROUND AS DO THE LEGISLATURES OF 11 STATES AS DO THE COUNTY COUNCILS OF ALL FOUR COUNTIES OF HAWAI'I.

SO THERE ARE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES.

NONE OF THESE ARE PERFECT INSTITUTIONS, BUT I REALLY DO THINK AS A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH THAT WE COULD BE A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE IF WE HAD THE RESOURCES AT OUR DISPOSAL, THE STAFF EXPERTISE AT OUR DISPOSAL.

>> Yunji: JUDITH, I'D LOVE FOR TO YOU WEIGH IN ON WHAT THE SENATORS JUST SAID AND MARILYN FROM KULA SAID I'M SHOCKED TO HEAR THEY'RE ONLY IN SESSION 60 DAYS OUT OF THE YEAR.

THIS IS NOT ENOUGH TIME TO CONSIDER THE PROPOSED BILLS.

DO THEY EVEN HAVE A LIVING SALARY?

WE KNOW AS YOU MENTIONED THE LAWMAKERS ARE PAID OVER $70,000 FOR -- >> $72,000.

>> Yunji: $72,000 TO BE PRECISE FOR THAT WORK BUT AS YOU MENTIONED, THE STAFF AREN'T MABELING NEARLY THAT MUCH.

JUDITH, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT THE SENATOR JUST BROUGHT UP?

>> MOST OF THE SMALL AND MEDIUM-SIZED STATES DO PRETTY MUCH THE SAME THING THAT WE DO.

THEY HAVE 30, 60, SOMETIMES 90 DAYS EITHER MEASURED IN CALENDAR DAYS OR LEGISLATIVE DAYS IN WHICH TO WORK AND THEN SPECIAL SESSIONS TO ADDRESS, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT, VERY MANY OF THEM FREQUENTLY, ALMOST REGULARLY RUN SPECIAL SESSIONS AS WELL SO BASICALLY THEY'RE OPERATING MORE THAN 60 DAYS AND WE OFTEN ARE RUNNING SPECIAL SESSIONS AS WELL.

I GUESS FROM A PLANNING STANDPOINT, I THINK IF YOU WERE AT THE CAPITOL FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME BUT SPREAD OVER THE ENTIRE YEAR, IT ARGUES FOR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE STAFF THAT IN BETWEEN THOSE TIMES, THAT DURING THOSE RECESSES OR SHORT RECESSES, YOU WOULD HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO CONSULT WITH YOUR STAFF, CONSULT WITH PROFESSIONALS, CONSULT -- GET EXPERTISE FROM OUTSIDE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A MORE CAREFUL APPROACH TO EACH ANALYSIS INCLUDING THE ANALYSIS FOR HOW IT'S GOING TO HAVE LONG-TERM AND SHORT-TERM FISCAL IMPACT ON OUR STATE.

SO I COULD SEE AN ADVANTAGE TO HAVING A MORE ORDERLY AND LESS COMPRESSED WAY OF APPROACHING IT.

BUT TO THE INDIVIDUAL'S QUESTION, YES, THEY ONLY MEET FOR 60 DAYS.

IT IS A SPRINT.

THEY HIT THE GROUND RUNNING AND IT GOES FAST, FAST, FAST, FAST.

AND IF YOU ARE WANTING TO COMMENT ON BILLS, YOU HAVE TO WATCH VERY CAREFULLY.

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF ON THE RIGHT LIST.

YOU MAKE SURE YOU'RE SEEING THE RIGHT COMMITTEE MEETINGS THAT ARE COMING UP, THAT YOU'RE PREPARING AND HAVING THOSE INPUTS IN TIME.

I THINK FOR PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO ARE RETIRED, THAT'S POSSIBLE.

I CAN DO THAT.

BUT FOR THE REGULAR SCHOOL TEACHER WHO WANTS TO COMMENT OR THE REGULAR NURSE WHO WANTS TO COMMENT, YOU DON'T HAVE A RUNWAY.

YOU DON'T HAVE MUCH TIME AT ALL TO BE PREPARED TO COMMENT ON A BILL THAT'S COMING UP QUICKLY.

SO YOU HAVE TO ACTUALLY STAY AT THE SAME PACE THAT THEY'RE WORKING AT AND CONGRATULATIONS, BECAUSE YOU GUYS WORK REALLY HARD WHEN YOU'RE WORKING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO ON YOUR OFF TIME, BUT, BOY, YOU WORK HARD WHEN YOU'RE WORKING.

BUT FOR THE REST OF US, IT'S HARD TO KEEP UP.

IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT'S -- IT'S HARD TO STAY IN FRONT OF WHAT'S DEMANDED IF YOU WANT TO BE ACTIVE IN IT.

>> Yunji: WELL, AND YOU BROUGHT UP THE POINT ABOUT SPECIAL SESSIONS AND THIS CALLER DOES, TOO.

ELLA IN WAIKIKI SAYS WHY ARE SPECIAL SESSIONS NOT CALLED MORE FREQUENTLY?

DO YOU THINK INCREASING THE USE OF SPECIAL SESSIONS COULD OFFER SIMILAR BENEFITS TO YEAR-ROUND LEGISLATURE?

SENATOR, I KNOW WHEN THE GOVERNOR CALLS A SPECIAL SESSION, THERE ARE A LOT OF CONCERNS ABOUT COST.

THAT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT'S WHY WE'RE NOT USING SPECIAL SESSIONS THAN WE ARE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ADDING MORE SPECIAL SESSIONS TO SUPPLEMENT AND ACHIEVE SOME OF THE THINGS SENATOR CHANG IS TALKING ABOUT?

>> THERE'S TWO TYPES OF SPECIAL SESSIONS.

THE MOST COMMON WON YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BICAMERAL SPECIAL SESSION.

THAT'S SUPER EXPENSIVE BECAUSE IT REQUIRES THE HOUSE TO ALSO BE IN SESSION ALONG WITH THE SENATE.

THE -- WE ALWAYS HAVE SPECIAL SESSIONS BECAUSE WE NEED TO CONFIRM DIRECTORS AND VARIOUS DEPARTMENT HEADS AND THE LIKE.

SO THAT'S WHY I'M SAYING AT LEAST FOR THE SENATE, WE'RE ALMOST FULL-TIME ANY WAY.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO -- SPECIAL SESSIONS CAN BE CALLED BY THE GOVERNOR AND ALSO BE CALLED BICAMERALLY.

WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE.

WE CAN DO IT AGAIN, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S SOMETHING BIG.

IN FACT, THERE'S TWO MAJOR ISSUES THAT'S COMING DOWN THE PIPE BECAUSE OF THE MAUI FIRES WHERE WE MAY NEED TO CALL SPECIAL SESSION, ONE OF WHICH IS THE HUGE INSURANCE ISSUE AND ALSO HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC AS WELL AS, YEAH, OTHER ISSUES CONCERNING THE MAUI WILD FIRE.

WE MAY SEE A BICAMERAL SPECIAL SESSION THIS YEAR.

>> Yunji: SENATOR CHANG, BEFORE WE MOVE OFF THIS POINT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT UTILIZING SPECIAL SESSIONS MORE FREQUENTLY TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THE GOALS AS OPPOSED TO INSTITUTING A FULL-SCALE CHANGE?

>> I THINK SPECIAL SESSIONS HAVE THEIR PLACE BUT IT'S HARD TO CALL THE LEGISLATURE INTO SPECIAL SESSION UNLESS YOU HAVE A PREDETERMINED OUTCOME BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO BE CALLED INTO SPECIAL SESSION AND HAVE WHATEVER BILL THAT'S BEING WORKED ON DIE BECAUSE OF DISAGREEMENTS AND, AGAIN, SPECIAL SESSIONS ARE LIMITED IN THEIR TIME.

NOBODY WANTS TO KEEP RUNNING UP THE CLOCK AND THE EXPENSES.

IF THE LEGISLATURE WERE MEETING CONTINUOUSLY YEAR ROUND T COULD RESPOND MUCH MORE QUICKLY TO ISSUES LIKE THE WILD FIRES IN MAUI THAT HAPPENED IN AUGUST WHERE WE WOULDN'T NEED TO GUT AND REPLACE BILLS TO ADDRESS VOLCANO THAT ERUPTS IN MAY OF 2018 ON THE BIG ISLAND OR FLOODING ON KAUAI THAT HAPPENS AND EAST O'AHU IN OUR DISTRICTS.

IN APRIL OF 2018, THERE WAS ANOTHER FLOODING EVENT ON KAUAI.

WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THAT NOW, AND EVEN IF WE WERE TO CALL OURSELVES INTO A SPECIAL SESSION, WE DON'T NEED -- WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH TIME WE WOULD NEED TO ADDRESS ANY OF THESE ISSUES.

IT WOULD JUST BE EASIER AND MORE PREDICTABLE FOR EVERYBODY IF EVERYONE KNEW THAT THE LEGISLATURE WERE GOING TO BE MEETING PERIODICALLY THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE YEAR.

>> Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE WARD, WHAT ABOUT -- >> CAN I PIGGYBACK ON THAT?

>> Yunji: YES.

I WANT TO YOU RESPOND ON WHAT THEY'RE SAYING THAT THE LAWMAKERS ARE MOVING AT SUCH A RAPID CLIP THAT IT COULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PARTICIPATE GIVEN IF YOU HAVE A REGULAR JOB.

>> FIRST OFF, THE SPECIAL SESSIONS ARE A SAFETY VALVE.

ANYTHING THAT'S WORTHWHILE THAT SUPPOSEDLY WE DON'T LOOK AT -- BY THE WAY, IT'S NOT 60 DAYS.

IT'S FOUR MONTHS.

PEOPLE GET THE WRONG IMPRESSION IT'S 60 DAYS.

OH MY GOD, YOU GUYS MEET TWO MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR AND GET $72,000!

IT'S FOUR MONTHS.

TO USE 60 DAYS IS DECEPTIVE.

WHAT WAS THE QUESTION?

>> Yunji: WHAT ABOUT THIS IDEA BECAUSE THE SESSION IS SO TIGHT AND THE CITIZENS DON'T GET TO PARTICIPATE -- >> OH, CONTRARY!

IT'S TIGHT BUT WE HAVE ZOOM.

ANYBODY IN -- ANYBODY IN THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS -- THE BEST THING THAT CAME OUT OF COVID WAS FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS TO BE FOR ANYBODY AS LONG AS THEY HAVE A COMPUTER WITH A WAY OF CLICKING ON A URL, ZOOM!

WE HAVE MADE PARTICIPATION SO EASY.

AND YOU CAN FOLLOW A BILL THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE WEBSITE.

PARTICIPATION IS SO EASY.

BUT I KNOW THE EXPECTATION IS THAT IT'S GOING TO INCREASE PARTICIPATION.

IT HASN'T.

I THINK BY SOME OF THE COMMENTS YOU'RE HEARING, OH, ZOOM HASN'T HELPED.

IT'S IMMENSELY ADDED TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTICIPATION IN THE PROCESS.

SO I DON'T THINK HAVING LONGER TIME IS GOING -- THEY DON'T HAVE TO FLY IN ANYMORE.

SO IF YOU MEET YEAR ROUND, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF A ZERO SUM GAME.

I JUST DON'T BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Yunji: YOU BROUGHT UP ZOOM.

THERE'S A CALLER WHO SAYS I COULD SEE REPRESENTATIVE SAN BUENAVENTURA'S POINT ABOUT BEING CLOSE TO HER CONSTITUENTS.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY TALK ABOUT CHANGING THE RULES TO ALLOW VIRTUAL MEETINGS AND ATTENDANCE BY NEIGHBORING LAWMAKERS?

>> ONLY HAPPENED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

WE WERE REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY BE PRESENT FOR THE SESSION.

IN FACT, EVEN MAJORITY CAUCUS SOMETIMES WERE REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY BE PHYSICALLY PRESENT.

BUT I AGREE WITH JUDITH THAT THE TIME PERIOD FOR PARTICIPATION FOR WITNESSES IS SHORT, BUT I JUST WANT TO REMIND HER AS WELL AS EVERYONE ELSE THERE ARE THREE READINGS.

AND IN THE HOUSE WHENEVER IT GOES TO EVERY COMMITTEE, THERE ARE MULTIPLE CHANCES TO HAVE A SAY.

AND WE GET FLOODED BY E-MAILS ALL THE TIME.

>> HUNDREDS.

>> IT'S NOT JUST -- IT'S NOT JUST THOSE WHO HAVE TESTIFIED WHO WE HEAR, TOO.

GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT IS THE DEATH OF THE TWO ANIMAL BILLS IN THE SENATE.

THAT WAS PROBABLY THE RESULT OF A FLOOD OF E-MAILS WE WERE GETTING.

SO THERE ARE -- THERE IS PARTICIPATION.

>> Yunji: I'M GLAD TO HEAR IT.

THERE'S A CALLER THAT HAS A QUESTION.

SENATOR CHANG, I'D LOVE FOR TO YOU TAKE THIS ONE.

HOW MUCH WILL LEGISLATORS MAKE IF THEY GO FULL-TIME?

JUST A REMARK HERE, $72,000 FOR A PART-TIME JOB?

ALTHOUGH OUR TWO REPRESENTATIVES WOULD COUNTER IT'S NOT A PART-TIME JOB.

THEY SAID THAT'S MORE THAN TEACHERS MAKE!

TO THE FIRST POINT, HOW MUCH WOULD LAWMAKERS MAKE IF THEY DID GO FULL-TIME?

>> I AGREE TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID MORE.

BUT WHAT LAWMAKERS MAKE IS NOT TIED TO THE LENGTH OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION OR WHETHER IT'S CONCENTRATED IN FOUR MONTHS OR SPREAD OUT OVER 12.

THAT'S UP TO THE SALARY COMMISSION, AT LEAST IN OUR PROPOSALS.

I BELIEVE THAT LEGISLATORS, STAFF MEMBERS IN THE LEGISLATURE, ALL PUBLIC SERVANTS SHOULD BE -- THEIR PAY SHOULD BE DETERMINED IN A TRANSPARENT PROCESS.

THAT CERTAINLY WOULDN'T CHANGE JUST BECAUSE THE SESSION DAYS ARE CONCENTRATED OR SPREAD OUT.

>> Yunji: WOULD THERE BE NO COST INCREASE TO GOING YEAR-ROUND?

>> I THINK STAFF SHOULD BE PAID MORE.

I DO THINK THAT THAT COST WOULD -- I WOULD LIKE IT TO GO UP.

I WOULD BE OPEN TO LEGISLATIVE SALARIES GOING UP.

BUT THAT'S NOT SOMETHING ANY OF OUR PROPOSALS HAVE REQUIRED.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS, THIS IS A SYSTEM WHERE YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

IF YOU LIKE A SYSTEM WHERE YOU ONLY HAVE 48 HOURS NOTICE BEFORE A BILL IS HEARD AND IF YOU LIKE A SYSTEM WHERE BILLS DIE -- YOU KNOW, THE ANIMAL BILLS THAT MY FRIEND SENATOR SAN BUENAVENTURA WERE REFERRING TO, THEY COULD VERY WELL HAVE KEPT GOING IF WE HAD A CONTINUOUS SESSION WHERE ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS UNDERSTOOD THERE WAS MORE TIME TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS, BUT BECAUSE THERE WASN'T TIME, THAT WAS I THINK ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS -- YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT HAD SO-CALLED CLEAN DATE, IF THE SENATE ACTED AND PASSED THE BILL, IT WOULD HAVE GONE STRAIGHT TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

THERE DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT LEVEL OF URGENCY IF WE HAD MORE TIME TO SAY, LET'S TAKE A BREAK, RECONSULT WITH THE STAKEHOLDERS AND COME BACK A COUPLE OF MONTHS LATER.

I THINK IF YOU WANT A CHEAP BUT CHAOTIC PROCESS, THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT WE HAVE.

IF YOU WANT A TRULY DELIBERATIVE PROCESS WITH THOUGHTFUL ENGAGEMENT THAT'S NOT RUSHED BY ARTIFICIAL DEADLINES THEN -- AND IF THAT COSTS MORE, THEN I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE TAXPAYERS DESERVE.

>> Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE WARD, I CAN SEE YOU -- >> MAY I THROW OUT DATA?

BY THE WAY, WE'RE NOT A CHEAP PROCESS.

NOT FROM MY CONSTITUENTS' POINT OF VIEW.

THE HIGHEST-PAID FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE IS NEW YORK, $142,000.

CALIFORNIA THE NEXT HIGHEST PAID $122,000.

ON THE AVERAGE, FULL-TIME LEGISLATORS IN VARIOUS STATES MAKE $82,358.

HYBRID STATES MAKE AN AVERAGE OF $41,000.

PART-TIME LEGISLATURES MAKE $18,449.

WE'RE IN THE PROFESSIONAL CATEGORY AT $72,000.

MOST PART-TIME -- GET A LOAD OF THIS ONE!

THERE'S NO PAY FOR A NEW MEXICO LEGISLATOR.

THEY GET PER DIEM OF $85 A DAY.

NO PAY.

ZERO.

WHEN YOU'RE TRAVELING OR WHEN YOU'RE IN SESSION, YOU GET PAID.

NEW HAMPSHIRE GETS $100 A YEAR.

SO WE ARE NOT CHEAP AND LAZY OR INEFFICIENT.

WE'RE PROFESSIONAL.

COMPARED TO OTHER PLACES, I THINK WE'RE DOING GREAT WELL.

>> THERE ARE VERY SIGNIFICANT COST OF LIVING DIFFERENCES BETWEEN NEW MEXICO AND YEAR.

>> OH YEAH, OF COURSE.

>> AS WELL AS TRANSPORTATION COSTS, ETC., ETC.

BUT CAN I GO BACK TO THE ISSUE OF COST?

ONE OTHER ASPECT OF THE BILL SAYS THAT SENATORS OR LEGISLATORS WOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM HOLDING OTHER JOBS.

NOW, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THAT THERE'S A SIGNIFICANT REASON TO HAVE THAT IN ALL THE STATES WHERE THE LEGISLATURE IS RELATIVELY LONG RUNNING OR YEAR-ROUND.

IT IS TRUE THAT THEY ARE PROHIBITED FROM HOLDING OTHER POSITIONS.

NOW, WE HAVE JUST TAKEN A REALLY BAD BLACK EYE FROM THE EXPOSE THAT WAS RELEASED YESTERDAY FROM CIVIL BEAT AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT LEGISLATIVE CORRUPTION.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS LOOKED AT IN THERE IS DOUBLE DIPPING.

AND PROHIBITING LEGISLATORS FROM HOLDING OTHER JOBS WOULD AT LEAST ADDRESS ONE OF THE EGREGIOUS ISSUES THAT WAS BROUGHT UP IN THAT EXPOSE.

SO IF YOU'RE GOING TO ASK PEOPLE TO WORK YEAR-ROUND, WHICH YOU'RE ALREADY DOING, TO DO A GOOD JOB FOR THE LEGISLATURE, THEN IT MAKES SENSE TO PROHIBIT THEM FROM WORKING IN OTHER JOBS OR AT LEAST I FEEL THAT IT DOES.

AND I FEEL THAT'S AN HONEST WAY TO LOOK AT IT.

NOW, THAT MEANS YOU WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO PAY THEM.

WOULD YOU HAVE TO COMPENSATE THEM APPROPRIATELY.

APPROPRIATELY GIVEN WHERE WE LIVE AND THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL THAT WOULD BE ATTACHED TO THAT RESPONSIBILITY.

>> Yunji: SENATOR CHANG, DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD HELP WITH THE -- YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF LIMITS SHE'S TALKING ABOUT?

>> I DO.

I THINK THAT IF YOU HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE YOU'RE PAYING A LEGISLATOR $100 A YEAR, UM, YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO GET ONLY THE VERY RICH RUNNING FOR OFFICE OR THOSE WHO HAVE TO FIND OTHER WORK POSSIBLY EXPOSING THEMSELVES TO THE TEMPTATIONS OF CORRUPTION OR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

AND IF YOU WANT A LEGISLATURE THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE AND TO NO ONE ELSE, THEN I THINK THAT'S A CLEAR ADVANTAGE TO HAVING A PROHIBITION ON OUTSIDE WORK.

>> THEN, IF YOU'RE IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR THE MONEY, YOU'RE IN THE WRONG PROFESSION.

IN OTHER WORDS, IT MAY ATTRACT PEOPLE BECAUSE THE SALARY IS $100,000 OR $120,000.

AND I THINK THAT'S THE WRONG MOTIVATION TO BE IN THE LEGISLATURE QUITE FRANKLY.

I DON'T THINK THE SALARY SHOULD BE -- IT SHOULD BE A LIVABLE KIND OF SALARY.

IF IT'S TOO HIGH T BECOMES ELITE AND A MAGNET FOR PEOPLE, HEY, I'M RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

I MAKE OVER $100,000.

LIKE THE CITY COUNCIL, THEY'RE MAKING BIG BUCKS.

>> ARGUABLY, IF YOU HAVE THIS AS A PART-TIME -- THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF JOBS THAT WILL ALLOW FOR YOU TO WORK -- >> I'M TALKING ABOUT THE FULL-TIME.

>> I'M SAYING IN THE CURRENT ITERATION, THERE ARE ONLY A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT COULD DO THAT.

IF YOU'RE A RESTAURANT WORKER, YOU CAN'T SAY, WELL, I'M GOING TO TAKE THE NEXT FOUR MONTHS OFF TO BE A LAWMAKER THEN I'LL COME BACK AND WAIT TABLES AFTER THAT.

SO THERE PRESUMABLY IS A POINT THAT IN ITS CURRENT ITERATION, IT ONLY DRAWS THE ELITE AS WELL.

>> WELL, THE HIGHLY MOTIVATED AS WELL.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR THE MONEY, YOU'RE IN THE WRONG PROFESSION.

>> THAT MAY BE TRUE.

>> BUT YOU DO HAVE TO BE HIGHLY MOTIVATED AND YOU HAVE TO BE CAPABLE -- >> EXACTLY.

HELP THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE OF HAWAI'I.

IT'S ABOUT THEM.

NOT US.

>> BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO MAKE A LIVING WAGE.

I MEAN, PEOPLE CAN'T RUN FOR OFFICE AND BE IMPOVERISHED BY IT.

THAT'S NOT FAIR.

SO YOU DO A PROFESSIONAL JOB.

I DON'T RESENT THAT WE PAY OUR TAXES FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

>> Yunji: PERHAPS WE COULD ERADICATE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST TO A HIGHER LEVEL IF LAWMAKERS WERE FULL-TIME AND COULD THEREFORE NOT DO OTHER JOBS?

>> THAT'S OBVIOUS.

SO, YES, I AGREE WITH THAT.

IN FACT, MY LAW PRACTICE BASICALLY WENT DOWN TO ZERO BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I THOUGHT AT THE TIME WHEN I RAN THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO RUN IT AS WELL AS BE A LEGISLATOR.

THE REALITY IS IT'S A POLICY THAT THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO MAKE.

IF WE WANT TO HAVE PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATORS THEN FULL-TIME AND BAN THEM FROM WORKING.

IF WE WANT CITIZEN LEGISLATORS, CITIZENS WHO ARE ABLE TO PROVIDE THEIR MANALO AS TO WHAT THE DAY-TO-DAY WORKING PEOPLE DO AND FACE, THEN YOU GOT TO ALLOW THEM TO WORK LIKE REGULAR PEOPLE.

THAT WAY THEY KNOW WHAT REGULAR PEOPLE FEEL, WHAT REGULAR PEOPLE SUFFER, WHAT REGULAR PEOPLE HAVE TO -- HAVING TO COMMUTE THE FOUR HOURS A DAY OR SO AND GOING BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TRAFFIC INSTEAD OF BEING STUCK IN THAT SQUARE BUILDING.

I MEAN, IT'S A POLICY THAT THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO DECIDE.

AND RIGHT NOW, THE PUBLIC HAS DECIDED THAT CITIZEN LEGISLATORS WHO ARE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT WORKING PEOPLE ARE FEELING ARE SUFFERING THE CONSEQUENCES OR BENEFITING FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE VARIOUS LAWS WE MAKE SHOULD BE LEGISLATORS AT THIS TIME.

IF THE PUBLIC SAYS THAT THEY WANT PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATORS THEN I GUESS THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE FACED WITH.

I -- LIKE I SAID, I RAN FOR OFFICE BECAUSE I WANTED A LEGISLATURE THAT KNEW WHAT DAY-TO-DAY PEOPLE ARE FEELING, WHAT THEY BENEFIT FROM, WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR LAWS ARE TO THEM, AND I BELIEVE I'VE DONE THAT, BECAUSE AS A COUNTRY LAWYER WITH FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY -- WITH PEOPLE WHO GO THROUGH DIVORCES, ADOPTIONS, GUARDIANSHIPS, TRUSTS, WILLS, ESTATE PLANNING, COMING INTO MY OFFICE, I KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE.

A BIG EXAMPLE IS HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO JUST GET A COPY OF A MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE OR A DEATH CERTIFICATE.

UNTIL YOU ARE FACED WITH HAVING HAD TO DO A PROBATE AND NOT BE ABLE TO START A PROBATE OR NOT BE ABLE TO MANAGE THE ESTATE OF SOMEBODY WHO HAS DIED BECAUSE YOU'RE WAITING SIX MONTHS FOR A DEATH, YOU DON'T REALIZE HOW MUCH BILLS HAVE PILED UP THAT YOU CAN'T PAY UNTIL PROBATE HAS STARTED.

ONE OF THE THINGS I DID AS PART OF THE HEALTH COMMITTEE WAS MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER.

THAT WASN'T ASKED FOR BY ANY ADVOCATE BUT WHEN I SAW THE BILL COME IN, I ASKED THE HEALTH CHAIR TO FIX THE STATUTE TO MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER SO THAT WE ARE ABLE TO EXPEDITE MARRIAGE CERTIFICATES AND DEATH CERTIFICATE REQUESTS SO IT'S EASIER FOR DAY-TO-DAY PEOPLE TO GO ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THAT IF YOU HAVE PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATORS.

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

>> I COMPLETELY AGREE -- SORRY -- I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU IN TERMS OF THE CONCEPT OF A COMMUNITY LEGISLATOR, A CITIZEN LEGISLATOR IS REALLY RIGHT THERE EXACTLY AS YOU DESCRIBED.

YOU BRING THE UNDERSTAND.

YOU BRING THE NEEDS.

YOU BRING ALL OF THAT TO THE TABLE, BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE NOW A PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATOR.

YOU HAVE BROUGHT ALL OF YOUR HISTORY AND ALL OF YOUR BACKGROUND TO THE TABLE AND HAVE NOW BECOME PROFESSIONAL DOING -- BRINGING THAT CITIZENSHIP FORWARD.

I THINK WE WANT PEOPLE WHO COME FROM THE COMMUNITY.

WE WANT PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEIR COMMUNITY.

WE WANT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FEELING FOR WHAT'S DRIVING PEOPLE NUTS.

WE HAVE A FEELING FOR THE THINGS THAT ARE WORKING AND THE THINGS THAT AREN'T WORKING AND BRING IT TO THE LEGISLATURE JUST LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT THERE.

BUT I ALSO THINK WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS PROFESSIONAL.

WHAT YOU'RE DOING REQUIRES KNOWLEDGE BEYOND WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON WALKING AROUND ON THE STREET HAS, AND THAT PROFESSIONALISM IS A SIDE OF THE ROLE THAT I THINK WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE AS WELL.

THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING.

>> Yunji: SENATOR CHANG SORT OF BUILDING ON WHAT SHE WAS SAYING, DO YOU THINK THE CURRENT IDEA OF THE CITIZEN LEGISLATURE IS IN FACT TRUE?

DO WE HAVE THE DIVERSITY THAT WAS INTENDED WITH THIS PART-TIME SYSTEM?

>> WE DO HAVE A LOT OF DIVERSITY IN OUR LEGISLATURE.

WE HAVE LAWYERS LIKE SENATOR SAN BUENAVENTURA.

WE HAVE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE PEACE CORPS LIKE REPRESENTATIVE WARD.

WE HAVE ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES AS A RANCHER.

ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES IS A SWEET POTATO FARMER.

THEY RUN THE GAMUT BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN SPECIFIC CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE THAT AREN'T NECESSARILY AT THE TABLE.

IF YOU'RE A LOW-INCOME WORKER AND THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT PAYING A WAGE SUFFICIENT TO RAISE A YOUNG FAMILY LIKE THE ONE I HAVE, YOU'RE NOT EVEN GOING TO CONSIDER RUNNING FOR OFFICE.

YOU'RE GOING TO EITHER SORT OF BEING RELYING ON PEOPLE WHO ARE FINANCIALLY SECURE AND DON'T KNOW HOW HARD IT IS FOR OUR YOUNG PEOPLE, OUR WORKING FAMILIES TO GET BY OR FOR WHOM THOSE EXPERIENCES WERE A LIFETIME AGO.

SO WHEN I STARTED, I WAS A YOUNG LEGISLATOR.

I AGED OUT OF THE YOUNG DEMOCRATS.

I STRONGLY BELIEVE WE NEED MORE YOUNG VOICES AT THE TABLE AND YOUNG PEOPLE ARE THE LEAST LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO ACCEPT $100-A-YEAR POSITION.

>> Yunji: THERE'S ELIAN -- WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT 10 MINUTES LEFT.

I WANT TO GET TO A FEW MORE QUESTIONS.

THAT'S HOW IT GOES.

IT GOES SO QUICKLY.

JUDITH, TAKE THIS ONE FROM ELIAN.

IN ADDITION TO THE OPTIONS DISCUSSED, ONE SUGGESTION IS TO HAVE ONE LEGISLATIVE ENTITY RATHER THAN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> ACTUALLY LEAGUE PROPOSED THAT AT ONE TIME IN THE PAST ACTUALLY.

THE VERY, VERY DISTANT PAST.

I BELIEVE IT WAS NOT ACCEPTED.

I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO YOU ALL ABOUT THAT.

IT SEEMS TO ME REDUNDANT, BUT I'M AN OUTSIDER, TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THOSE PROCESSES.

I KNOW AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, WE HAVE A VERY HISTORICAL REASON FOR DOING IT THAT WAY, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL, IT'S GOT THE SAME LOGIC BEHIND IT.

SO I THINK IT MIGHT WORK THAT WAY.

IT MIGHT WORK AS A UNICAMERAL ORGANIZATION JUST AS WELL AS IT DOES AS BICAMERAL.

>> SENATOR SLOAN INTRODUCED THE UNICAMERAL YEAR AFTER YEAR.

HE LOVED THAT.

I THINK IT WAS OKLAHOMA OR ONE OF THE OTHER STATES.

HE SAYS THAT'S THE MODEL.

GET US ALTOGETHER.

MAKE THE DECISIONS.

LET'S NOT DO THE BACK-AND-FORTH.

THE REAL COMPETITION IS BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, NOT THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS.

THAT'S A STRUCTURAL THING.

THAT'S WHY WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT THINGS GOING ON IN THE LEGISLATURE.

IT'S 8-68.

8 REPUBLICANS AND 68 DEMOCRATS.

TELL ME YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE SOME DIFFICULTIES WITH THAT WHEN YOU HAVE BASICALLY AN ADVERSARIAL SYSTEM.

GENERALLY ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER.

STRUCTURALLY, WE'RE SO OUT OF BALANCE WHICH WE WERE 100 YEARS AGO.

REPUBLICANS RAN AND OWNED EVERYTHING.

NOW, THE DEMOCRATS RUN AND OWN EVERYTHING.

THAT'S A STRUCTURAL LEVEL.

THAT'S A BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.

I WANTED TO MENTION THAT.

SAM SLOAN WANTED TO DO THAT.

I THINK WE'RE RELUCTANT TO CHANGE TO GIVE UP A SENATOR OR HOUSE SEAT TO DO SOMETHING WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT REALLY ADD TO THE PRODUCTIVE ADVANTAGE OF IT.

IT'S A GREAT IDEA BUT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IS GOING TO REALLY BACK IT UP.

I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT YOU GUYS HAD DONE THAT.

>> 1984.

IT WAS HISTORY.

REAL HISTORY.

>> Yunji: THIS CONCEPT SEEMS TO COME UP REPEATEDLY AND NOT GET A LOT OF TRACTION.

HOW REALISTIC DO YOU THINK IT IS FOR THIS TO ACTUALLY HAPPEN AND WHAT WOULD IT TAKE?

>> IT CERTAINLY WON'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

I THINK IT'S GREAT WE'RE ALL HERE TODAY BECAUSE AS YOU CAN SEE THERE'S A VARIETY OF OPINIONS ON THIS TOPIC WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE ITSELF.

WE DISCUSS GOOD GOVERNMENT REFORMS OPPOSED BY LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS, COMMON CAUSE OR RANK AND FILE CONSTITUENTS YEAR AFTER YEAR LIKE TERM LIMITS, LIKE, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC FINANCING OF ELECTIONS.

SOME OF THEM GET ENACTED LIKE WE HAVE A SUNSHINE LAW WE DIDN'T APPLY TO OURSELVES BUT IT APPLIES TO THE COUNTY COUNCILS.

WE BANNED FUND-RAISING DURING SESSION.

IN MY OPINION, HAVING BEEN ON BOTH HONOLULU CITY COUNCIL AS WELL AS THE HAWAI'I STATE LEGISLATURE, THE SINGLE CHANGE WE COULD MAKE THAT WOULD MAKE THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENCY, ACCESSIBILITY TO THE PUBLIC AND PREDICTABILITY WOULD BE TO SHIFT FROM THIS ARTIFICIAL, ARBITRARY FOUR-MONTH SYSTEM TO A YEAR-ROUND SYSTEM.

I THINK THOSE OF US WHO HAVE WORKED WITH OR IN THE COUNTY COUNCILS AS WELL AS THE STATE LEGISLATURE WOULD PROBABLY SHARE THAT CONSENSUS OPINION THAT THERE'S MORE TIME, THERE'S MORE DELIBERATION, THERE'S MORE THOUGHTFUL DELIBERATION AND SO I DON'T THINK THAT THIS TYPE OF A PROGRAM WOULD HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

IT WOULD REQUIRE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT OR I BELIEVE IT SHOULD.

I BELIEVE A QUESTION OF THIS MAGNITUDE SHOULD BE PUT BEFORE THE VOTERS OF HAWAI'I, BUT IF WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT PROMOTING THOUGHTFUL DELIBERATION AND CAREFUL LAW MAKING, I THINK THIS WOULD BE THE SINGLE BIGGEST CHANGE WE CAN MAKE.

>> Yunji: SENATOR SAN BUENAVENTURA, WE ONLY HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT BUT I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS.

I KNOW YOU DISAGREE WITH THE SENATOR HERE.

>> YES!

HA-HA.

>> THE REALITY IS I REPRESENT A RURAL DISTRICT, AND I DO NOT LIKE BEING STUCK IN HONOLULU IN AN ARTIFICIAL -- TO ME ARTIFICIAL BECAUSE IT IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM PUNA.

AND TO BE STUCK -- TO BE ADVOCATED BY VARIOUS LOBBYISTS FROM HONOLULU RATHER THAN MY GOING TO MY DISTRICT AND BEING AT MY DISTRICT AND KNOWING WHAT THE DAY-TO-DAY PROBLEMS OF MY COMMUNITY IS.

AND IF WE HAVE A YEAR-ROUND SYSTEM, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR SOMEBODY LIKE ME TO KNOW WHAT THE DAY-TO-DAY PROBLEMS ARE, BECAUSE I'M NOT COMMUTING TO AND FROM WORK, FIGHTING THE TRAFFIC, KNOWING THE PROBLEMS THAT A CERTAIN RIGHT TURN LANE HAS SCREWED UP WITH THE TRAFFIC OF THE OTHER PEOPLE GOING THE OTHER SIDE BECAUSE I'M STUCK HERE IN HONOLULU.

AND THAT IS MY MAIN PROBLEM.

WE ARE CITIZEN LEGISLATURES.

IT DOES REQUIRE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.

IT DOES REQUIRE THE PUBLIC TO DO THE SHIFT.

AND UNTIL WE DECIDE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A CITIZEN LEGISLATOR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATORS, THEN THAT'S A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.

>> Yunji: REPRESENTATIVE WARD, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

DO YOU THINK THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN?

>> BOTTOM LINE, I'M AGAINST IT UNLESS THE PEOPLE DEMAND IT'S THERE.

I DON'T THINK IT BELONGS TO US TO DECIDE.

IT BELONGS TO THE PEOPLE OUT THERE.

IT'S TOO COSTLY.

THE VALUE ADDED, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DON'T SEE THE ADVANTAGES.

INTERESTINGLY, WE'RE KIND OF AGAINST AND A PRO.

YOU SEPARATED US THIS WAY.

>> Yunji: THAT WASN'T INTENTIONAL.

>> LOOK, IF THERE'S A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT AND THE PEOPLE SAY THEY WANT THAT, OK, BUT WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF IT, IF THEY KNOW THE DATA AND WHAT YOU GET OUT OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR, IT'LL COST US THREE TIMES THE AMOUNT OF MONEY, SALARIES WILL GO UP FROM $72,000 TO $100+.

AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE AN 18% APPROVAL RATING.

TO BE THERE LONGER, WE MAY GO WORSE RATHER THAN HIGHER IN TERMS OF THE EYES OF THE PUBLIC.

AGAIN, TERM LIMITS WHERE EVERYBODY WANTS IT, WE WON'T TOUCH IT.

YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TO BE OPEN TO MORE INPUT FROM THE PUBLIC, WELL, NO, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE DON'T EVEN LISTEN TO THE PUBLIC AND IT'S STRUCTURED IN SUCH A WAY.

>> Yunji: JUDITH, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

>> I'M NOT ENTIRELY PRO.

I THINK THERE ARE PRO AND CON ASPECTS TO THIS.

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE EFFECTS WOULD BE ON REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE OTHER ISLANDS, BECAUSE IT IS TOO EASY TO GET HONOLULUCENTRIC.

TOO EASY TO GET O'AHUCENTRIC.

IT'S JUST A NATURAL CASE WHEN YOU'RE HERE ALL THE TIME AND THIS IS WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT.

BUT I THINK A SLOWER AND MORE DELIBERATIVE PROCESS HAS ITS ENORMOUS ADVANTAGES.

NOW, WHETHER THIS IS THE WAY TO INSTITUTE IT OR WHETHER THERE ARE OTHER WAYS THAT IT COULD BE INSTITUTED, I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE, BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE DEFINITELY SOME ADVANTAGES TO SLOWING DOWN, THINKING THINGS TRUE AND HAVING -- THROUGH AND HAVING A LESS CHAOTIC PROCESS, ESPECIALLY TOWARDS THE END OF THE SESSIONS SO THAT'S WHERE I WILL END.

>> Yunji: JUDITH, YOU DID SAY THERE'S SUCH A BURDEN ON PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PARTICIPATE, BUT FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE WATCHING AND WHO DO WANT TO PARTICIPATE, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BEST WAY IS TO DO THAT?

>> WELL, THEY CAN GET IN TOUCH WITH LEAGUE.

WE'D BE HAPPY TO HAVE THEM.

BUT THE PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE AT THE STATE CAPITOL DOES AN AMAZING JOB OF HELPING YOU UNDERSTAND HOW TO PARTICIPATE, HOW TO TESTIFY, HOW TO UNDERSTAND WHAT BILLS ARE COMING UP, AND IT'S JUST A GREAT OFFICE AND EASY TO FIND.

>> A COUPLE OF WEBSITES.

>> Yunji: THAT'S A WONDERFUL WAY TO END OUR EVENING.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT.

MAHALO TO YOU ALSO AT HOME FOR JOINING US.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE GENE WARD AND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR JOY SAN BUENAVENTURA.

AND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR STANLEY CHANG AND JUDITH MILLS WONG FROM THE LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF HAWAI'I.

NO "INSIGHTS" NEXT WEEK.

INSTEAD, A TOWN HALL ON SOMETHING WE ALL EXPERIENCE, STRESS.

WHETHER IT BE PERSONAL, PROFESSIONAL, FINANCIAL OR OUT ON THE ROAD IN TRAFFIC, WE ALL FEEL IT.

BUT TOO MUCH STRESS CAN BE HARMFUL TO YOUR HEALTH.

SO WHAT CAN WE DO?

JOIN US FOR KAKOU: HAWAI'I)S TOWN HALL, DE-STRESSING IN A STRESSFUL WORLD.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M YUNJI DE NIES FOR "INSIGHTS" ON PBS HAWAI'I.

ALOHA!