>> Olena: DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE CAN HAVE DEADLY CONSEQUENCES, YET IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

RECENT PROPOSALS TO LOWER HAWAI'I'S BLOOD-ALCOHOL LIMIT FOR DRUNKEN DRIVING, HAVE HIT ROADBLOCKS EACH LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

OPPONENTS ARGUE THE MEASURE UNFAIRLY TARGETS RESPONSIBLE DRINKERS, BUT SUPPORTERS SAY IT CAN HELP PREVENT SENSELESS TRAGEDIES.

DO YOU THINK HAWAI'I'S DUI LAWS SHOULD BE TOUGHER?

TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I START NOW.

¶¶ >> Olena: ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I...I'M OLENA HEU.

IT'S A SOBERING FACT.

ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION, EVERYDAY ABOUT 28 PEOPLE DIE IN DRUNKEN-DRIVING CRASHES.

THAT'S ONE PERSON EVERY 52 MINUTES.

AND IN ANY GIVEN YEAR, 1-POINT-5 MILLION PEOPLE ARE ARRESTED FOR DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

IN HAWAI'I IT IS ILLEGAL TO OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE WITH A BLOOD ALCOHOL CONCENTRATION OF POINT ZERO-EIGHT PERCENT OR HIGHER.

ACCORDING TO THE NHTSA, A DRIVER WITH THAT BLOOD ALCOHOL CONTENT WILL EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTY CONCENTRATING AND MAINTAINING SPEED, IMPAIRED PERCEPTION AND JUDGMENT, SHORT-TERM MEMORY LOSS AND DIFFICULTY PROCESSING INFORMATION.

THERE'S A PUSH TO REDUCE THAT LIMIT TO POINT ZERO-FIVE PERCENT, WHICH CAN RESULT IN REDUCED COORDINATION AND ABILITY TO TRACK MOVING OBJECTS, DIFFICULTY STEERING AND REDUCED REACTION TIMES.

BUT EFFORTS HAVE STALLED.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU'LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

SERGEANT THOMAS BILLINS IS WITH THE HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT'S TRAFFIC DIVISION.

A GRADUATE FROM MARYKNOLL AND SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY, HE'S BEEN ON THE POLICE FORCE FOR 11 YEARS AND HAS EXTENSIVE TRAINING IN ALCOHOL AND DRUG IMPAIRED DRIVING, SPEED DETECTION AND TRAFFIC COLLISION RECONSTRUCTION.

SARA HALEY IS A DEPUTY PUBLIC DEFENDER WITH THE HAWAI'I STATE OFFICE OF THE PUBLIC DEFENDER.

AFTER GRADUATING FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO LAW, SHE WAS A PUBLIC DEFENDER IN MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE, BEFORE CLERKING FOR HAWAI'I CHIEF JUSTICE MARK E. RECKTENWALD.

JOINING US FROM WASHINGTON D.C. IS ALEX OTTE, THE NATIONAL PRESIDENT FOR MADD OR MOTHER'S AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING.

AT THE AGE OF 13 SHE WAS ON A JET SKI WHEN AN INTOXICATED BOAT OPERATOR SLAMMED INTO HER, LEAVING HER SEVERELY INJURED.

AFTER THE ACCIDENT HER FAMILY BECAME INVOLVED WITH MADD.

FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., RICHARD BERMAN.

HE'S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE AMERICAN BEVERAGE INSTITUTE WHICH IS A NATIONAL RESTAURANT TRADE ASSOCIATION DEDICATED TO THE PROTECTION OF RESPONSIBLE ON-PREMISE CONSUMPTION OF ADULT BEVERAGES.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

I WANTED TO BEGIN OUR CONVERSATION BY CHATTING WITH SERGEANT BILLINS ABOUT GIVING US AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT .08 IS IN TERMS OF CONSUMPTION.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO TOUCH BASES ON POSSIBLY A.

02 IS THE FIRST MEASURABLE AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL.

AND THAT'S WHEN WE FIRST START TO SEE COGNITIVE DELAY AND INHIBITIONS.

THIS IS WHEN SOMEBODY MIGHT BECOME MORE TALKATIVE OR LIFE OF THE PARTY OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AT A.

05, YOU START TO SEE THE FINE MOTOR SKILLS DIMINISH AND REDUCE.

THEIR COGNITIVE AND JUDGMENT CAPABILITIES ARE ALSO IMPAIRED.

AT A .08, YOU START TO SEE GROSS MOTOR LOSS IN LARGE MUSCLE GROUPS THAT ALSO RELATE TO YOUR COGNITIVE DELAY AND INABILITY TO MAKE PROPER JUDGMENTS.

>> Olena: ALL RIGHT.

SO YOU KNOW, BEFORE LAWMAKERS THIS YEAR, IN PAST YEARS, THERE'S BEEN A BILL TO REDUCE THE ALCOHOL LEVEL TO .05.

AND SO, SARA, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT WHERE THAT BILL STANDS NOW AND WHAT DOES THAT MEANING TO YOU AS PUBLIC DEFENDER?

>> MY UNDERSTANDING IS I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S OFFICIAL, BUT THE BILL SEEMS TO BE DEAD THIS YEAR.

IT CAN BE BROUGHT AGAIN NEXT YEAR.

SO THAT MEANS THE LAW SHOULD REMAIN AS IT IS NOW.

TO THE .08 BAC.

THERE IS ANOTHER PART OF THE STATUTE THAT IS CURRENT RIGHT NOW THAT DOES COVER ANY IMPAIRED DRIVING, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A BAC OFFICIAL COUNT FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED A DUI.

>> AND IN TENNESSEE, OUR REPRESENTATIVE FROM MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVERS -- IN KENTUCKY.

PARDON ME.

YOU HAD AN EXPERIENCE AS A RESULT OF SOMEONE OPERATING A BOAT WHILE INTOXICATED.

>> I DID.

I WAS RUN OVER BY A DRUNK BOATER WHEN I WAS 13 YEARS OLD.

SO NEARLY 12 YEARS AGO.

>> Olena: AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT AND HOW IT IMPACTED YOUR LIFE.

>> IT IMPACTED MY LIFE IN EVERY WAY.

I WOULDN'T BE WHO I AM WITHOUT THE CRASH.

THERE'S NOTHING IN MY LIFE THAT DIDN'T CHANGE.

SO I WAS SITTING ON A JET SKI BEHIND MY DAD'S HOUSE ON A LAKE HERE IN KENTUCKY.

IT WAS NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY.

SOMETHING WE DID ALL THE TIME, EVERY SUMMER.

AND THERE'S A 17-FOOT BOAT COMING BY A NEARBY BRIDGE AT ABOUT 70 MILES AN HOUR HEADED TOWARDS MY MOM AND BROTHER IN OUT BOAT ACROSS THE NARROW LAKE FROM ME.

MY MOM SCREAMED.

HE BENT TO THE LEFT AND NEVER STRAIGHTENED OUT.

THE BOAT HIT ME FROM THE SIDE, GOING OVER 60 MILES AN HOUR, WENT OVER THE JET SKI AND LANDED ON THE TOP OF MY BODY.

I SUSTAINED SEVERE INJURIES HEAD TO TOE, INCLUDING A TRAUMATIC BRAIN INJURY CLASSIFIED AS SHAKEN BABY SYNDROME, A BROKEN NECK AND LOSS OF MY RIGHT LEG.

NO FAULT OF MY OWN.

THIS IS MY NEW LIFE.

I WILL LIVE WITH AND SUFFER FROM EVERY SINGLE ONE OF MY INJURIES FOREVER.

>> Olena: WELL, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY AND FOR ADVOCATING FOR SOMETHING THAT YOU BELIEVE IN.

ALSO WANT TO MENTION THAT WE'LL BE TAKING VIEWER QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS.

I'VE GOT ONE HERE.

WE'RE GOING TO GET TO IT IN A MOMENT.

ALSO WANTED TO CHAT TO MR. BERMAN IN WASHINGTON, D.C. WHAT YOU'RE HOPING FOLKS WILL TAKE AWAY FROM THE SHOW.

>> PERHAPS I CAN KEY OFF A COUPLE COMMENTS ALREADY MADE.

THE SERGEANT TALKED ABOUT HOW PEOPLE WERE IMPAIRED, AND OF COURSE, EVERYONE CAN MAKE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATION AS TO WHAT LOSS OF MOTOR SKILLS ARE, ETC.

RATHER THAN USE NUMBERS, LET ME USE SOME STUDY THAT'S PEOPLE WILL BE VERY COMFORTABLE RELYING ON.

NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION LOOKS AT IMPAIRMENT FOR A VARIETY OF FACTORS.

.08, WHICH IS THE LAW IN HAWAI'I NOW, IS EQUIVALENT TO TALKING ON A HANDS-FREE CELL PHONE.

THAT IS CONSIDERED TO BE A VIOLATION OF TRAFFIC LAWS.

YOU CAN BE FINED UP TO $300 FOR TALKING ON A CELL PHONE WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING.

AGAIN, THIS IS A HANDS-FREE CELL PHONE.

BUT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION SAYS THAT IS THE SAME LEVEL OF IMPAIRMENT AS .08, AND FOR YOUR VIEWERS' PURPOSES, THEY SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT .05 IS A 40% REDUCTION OR 40% INCREASE IN THE ARREST LEVEL EXPOSURE TO GO FROM .08 TO .05.

YOU CAN IMAGINE IT'S A FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE OFF OF A LAW THAT'S EQUIVALENT TO TALKING ON A CELL PHONE.

AND THERE'S ALSO STUDIES OUT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH THAT TALKS ABOUT .05 AND ALL THE VARIOUS WAYS THAT YOU CAN EQUATE THAT.

AND UTAH IS THE ONLY STATE THAT HAS GONE TO A .05 LEVEL, AND UNIVERSITY OF UTAH STUDIES ON IMPAIRMENT HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE 65 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER ARE ACTUALLY FAR MORE IMPAIRED THAN SOMEONE DRIVING AT .05.

SO YOU HAVE SOME FRAMES OF REFERENCE THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY RELATE TO.

AS FAR AS ALEX'S ACCIDENT, WHICH IS HORRIFIC, AND I HAVE DEALT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAD THESE FAMILY TRAGEDIES.

I DON'T KNOW IF ALEX KNOWS THIS BUT I WAS THE ONLY CORPORATE CONSULTANT TO MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING IN THE 1970s.

AND I DEALT WITH THE BOARD AND THE FOUNDER OF MADD, TRYING TO HELP THEM COME UP WITH POLICIES THAT I THOUGHT WOULD WORK.

AND THE PERSON WHO RAN OVER ALEX HAD A BLOOD ALCOHOL LEVEL OF A .18, WHICH IS PROBABLY -- AND THAT WAS TESTED A COUPLE OF HOURS AFTER HE HAD HIT HER.

SO AT .08, YOU'RE GETTING CLOSE TO FOUR TIMES THIS .05 LEVEL.

AND THAT'S THE REAL PROBLEM WITH DRUNK DRIVING.

ALL THE STATISTICS THAT PEOPLE THROW AROUND ARE GENERALLY, GENERALLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD FAR MUCH MORE ALCOHOL IN THEIR SYSTEM.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE CHRONIC ALCOHOLICS.

THEY HAVE FAR MORE ALCOHOL IN THEIR SYSTEM THAN ANYBODY WOULD NORMALLY BE ABLE TO TOLERATE.

AND THESE ARE NOT THE .05 DRIVERS OR BOATERS.

THESE ARE SERIOUS DRINKERS.

>> Olena: AND.

SERGEANT, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN RESPONSE TO MR. BERMAN'S COMMENTS?

>> WELL, YOU EQUIVOCATE THE FACT OF HANDS-FREE DRIVING OF A .08.

THAT MIGHT BE TRUE FOR SOMEONE ON A COGNITIVE LEVEL, BUT YOU'RE NOT TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE EFFECTS OF ALCOHOL AND THE PHYSICAL BODY.

IT SLOWS REACTION TIME COGNITIVELY, BUT IT ALSO AFFECTS YOUR GROSS MOTOR SKILLS, AS WELL AS YOUR ABILITY TO KEEP AND HOLD YOUR ATTENTION.

SO MERELY SAYING THAT .08 IS THE SAME AS SOMEBODY WHO'S TALKING ON A CELL PHONE WITH A HANDS-FREE DEVICE, I THINK, IS AN OVERSIGHT IN TERMS OF IMPAIRMENT.

>> I'M ONLY CITING THE GOVERNMENT STATISTICS.

>> Olena: ALTHOUGH SERGEANT IS OUT ON THE STREETS YOU KNOW, OVERSEEING THE TRAFFIC DEPARTMENT WITH THOSE THAT ARE DRINKING AND DRIVING.

>> THE SERGEANT ACTUALLY HAS A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA, BUT IF YOU GO BACK SEVERAL YEARS AGO, WHEN .08 WAS A MAJOR FIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY.

THERE WERE A NUMBER OF STUDIES IN THE -- WHAT SHALL I CALL IT?

THE PRIME STUDY ON .08 DRIVERS DONE BY RUTGERS UNIVERSITY IN NEW JERSEY.

AND THEY SAID THAT POLICE CANNOT IDENTIFY THE .08 DRIVER UNLESS THEY HAVE HAD SUBSTANTIAL NUMBERS OF ARRESTS, AND THEY HAD A NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE AT .08, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE FALLING DOWN DRUNK.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO PROBABLY THE SERGEANT CAN IDENTIFY BECAUSE HE'S HAD SO MUCH EXPERIENCE.

THERE ARE SUBTLE DIFFERENCES IN PEOPLE.

AGAIN, PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT .05 IS SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN .08, AND THAT'S WHY A NUMBER OF STATES, SIX OR EIGHT STATES HAVE TRIED TO PASS .05.

LEGISLATORS UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE REAL TRANSLATION OF .05 IS.

THAT LAW HAS BEEN REJECTED IN ALL OF THOSE STATES, JUST AS IT'S BEEN REJECTED IN HAWAI'I.

>> Olena: NOT NECESSARILY IT'S BEEN REJECTED.

IT HASN'T PASSED.

SARA, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY ABOUT YOUR SUPPORT OR NOT SUPPORTING THE MOST RECENT BILL SUBMITTED?

>> MY OFFICE DID NOT SUPPORT THE REDUCTION TO A .05.

WE DID SUBMIT WRITTEN TESTIMONY.

I APPEARED FOR THE ORAL TESTIMONY.

WE HAVE A FEW CONCERNS.

ONE BEING THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, FOR A PETITE WOMAN, ONE ALCOHOLIC DRINK WOULD BE EQUAL TO .05 BAC.

WE DO HAVE CONCERNS THAT DRIVERS WHO ARE NOT IMPAIRED TO THE POINT OF HURTING SOMEONE OR HAVING AN ACCIDENT, THAT -- OR MAYBE GETTING ONE DRINK AFTER WORK WOULD FALL INTO A CATEGORY THAT THEY WOULD BE BREAKING THE LAW IF THEY'RE DRIVING.

>> Olena: ALEX, WHAT'S YOUR TAKE ON THE .05 BLOOD ALCOHOL LEVEL?

MAYBE IF YOU CAN ALSO SPEAK ON FACT THAT UTAH IMPLEMENTED THAT AS THE BAROMETER.

>> MOST IMPORTANTLY IS IT'S NOT AN ACCIDENT.

IT'S NOT A MISTAKE.

IT'S A CHOICE.

PEOPLE MAKE A CHOICE TO DRINK AND DRIVE.

AND SO WHATEVER ALCOHOL IT WOULD TAKE TO MAKE SOME PERSON REACH .05, WE TAKE NO POSITION ON LEGAL ADULTS DRINK.

OF LEGAL DRINKING AGE.

WE TAKE A POSITION ON WHAT THEY DO AFTER.

THAT'S WHY YOU PLAN AHEAD.

THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A PLAN ON HOW YOU'RE GOING TO GET HOME SAFELY OR YOUR NEXT DESTINATION SAFELY LONG BEFORE YOU TAKE THE FIRST DRINK.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU PLAN TO DRINK.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE REMEMBER THAT NONE OF THIS IS ACCIDENTAL.

PEOPLE ARE MAKING A DELIBERATE CHOICE TO DRINK BEFORE THEY GET INTO A VEHICLE, WHETHER THAT'S A BOAT OR CAR.

SO WE JUST ASK THAT THEY MAKE THAT PLAN AHEAD OF TIME REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH THEY INTEND TO DRINK OR HOW MUCH THEY END UP DRINKING.

>> HAVE YOU SEEN A REDUCTION IN ACCIDENTS IN UTAH SINCE THEY CHANGED THE LAW?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S A 19.8% REDUCTION IN FATAL CRASHES.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME IS THERE IS A BIG REDUCTION, BUT MORE SO THAN THAT, I HEARD RICHARD SAY EARLIER IT WOULDN'T MOVE THE NEEDLE THAT MUCH.

THAT'S CONCERNING FROM A VICTIM PERSPECTIVE.

I ONLY NEEDED ONE PERSON TO NOT DIE.

ONE PERSON TO NOT LIVE THE WAY THAT I LIVE.

WHY WOULDN'T WE WANT THAT?

WHY WOULDN'T WE ALL ADVOCATE FOR THAT?

>> I JUST WANTED TO RESPOND.

I THINK THAT ALEX IS REFERENCING THE NHTSA STUDY.

UTAH IS THE ONLY STATE THAT PASSED THE .05 BAC LAW.

I'M USING THIS.

AND AGAIN I'M NOT A STATISTICIAN, BUT I WAS LOOKING AT THEIR OWN GRAPHS, AND UNFORTUNATELY, I DO THINK THAT THERE'S THIS HUGE REDUCTION IS CHERRY PICKING THE YEARS.

SO THERE IS A REDUCTION FROM THE YEAR BEFORE THE LAW WAS PASSED TO 2019, BUT IF YOU GO BACK A FEW MORE YEARS, THERE ARE SIMILAR LOW NUMBERS.

SO IT COULD BE NATURAL VARIATION.

WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.

SO MAKING THE CONCLUSION THAT THE NUMBERS HAD SIGNIFICANTLY GONE DOWN ISN'T RIGHT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA FROM NHTSA'S OWN REPORT IN THEIR GRAPH.

I ALSO NOTE -- I KNOW YOU DIDN'T MENTION THIS, ALEX, BUT I HAVE HEARD TALK, UTAH HAS SUCH LOWER NUMBERS.

BUT THEY HAD LOWER NUMBERS BEFORE THE .05 LAW WAS PASSED.

>> IF I COULD PUT A FINAL POINT ON THAT REPORT.

IT'S TRUE THAT IN 2019, WHICH WAS THE FIRST YEAR UTAH IMPLEMENTED THAT, THEY DID REDUCE FATALITY.

IN THAT YEAR, MOST STATES REDUCED THEIR DRUNK DRIVING FOR WHATEVER REASON.

THE NUMBERS WENT DOWN.

THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN GOING DOWN FOR MANY YEARS.

THERE WERE AT LEAST THREE STATES THAT KEPT THEIR .08 LAW.

THREE SMALL STATES LIKE HAWAI'I, LOW POPULATION, HAD MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT REDUCTIONS THAN UTAH DID.

SO AGAIN, THE UTAH DROP IS NOT A STANDOUT.

IF THEY HAD NOT CHANGED THEIR LAW, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE.

THERE WAS NO CORRELATION.

AND IF I CAN GO BACK FURTHER, THERE WAS A FIGHT OVER THIS SAME ISSUE AFTER .08 HAD BEEN PASSED, AND IN CALIFORNIA, THE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES -- AGAIN, THIS WASN'T ANYTHING OTHER THAN PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, CALIFORNIA DMV TRIED TO FIND HOW MUCH OF A REDUCTION THEY HAD HAD FROM .08.

THEY SAID THERE WAS NO STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE THAT .08 HAD MADE A DIFFERENCE IN CALIFORNIA.

>> Olena: ALL RIGHT.

WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM OUR VIEWER.

MIKE IN MAKIKI.

HOW MANY TIMES CAN YOU HAVE A DUI UNTIL YOU CAN'T HAVE A LICENSE ANYMORE?

NOT JUST REVOKED BUT INDEFINITELY?

>> IS THAT A QUESTION FOR ME?

SORRY.

I THINK THE FOURTH TIME YOU GET ARRESTED FOR DUI AND CONVICTED, LICENSE REVOKED.

I THINK IT'S A TEN-YEAR BAN.

SARA, IF YOU COULD COMMENT.

>> YEAH.

THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT.

ONE IS DUI CONVICTION, AND IT WOULD BE DRIVING WHILE YOUR LICENSE IS SUSPENDED FOR REVOKED FOR DUI.

IF YOUR LICENSE IS SUSPENDED OR REVOKED FOR DUI AND YOU DRIVE, WHETHER THE DRUNK OR NOT DRUNK.

YOU HAVE TWO PRIOR CONVICTION.

FOR YOUR THIRD, YOU WOULD HAVE YOUR LICENSE REVOKED FOREVER.

HOPEFULLY THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.

THIRD OFFENSE DUI CAN BE CHARGED AS A FELONY.

YOU WOULD BE LOOKING AT LOSING YOUR LICENSE.

>> Olena: LET'S SEE.

ACTUALLY, SERGEANT, IF YOU COULD GO INTO DETAIL EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE IS PULLED OVER OR SUSPECTED OF DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DEBATE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU SHOULD BLOW WHILE ON SITE OR GIVE BLOOD AFTER YOU'RE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY.

IF YOU COULD EXPOUND ON THAT.

>> YEAH.

I SPENT OVER EIGHT YEARS ON THE DUI TASK FORCE.

A GOOD PORTION OF MY CAREER WAS INVOLVED PULLING OVER MOTORISTS FOR MULTIPLE TRAFFIC VIOLATIONS.

MY MAIN CONCERN WAS STOP ANY HAZARDOUS OPERATOR OF A MOTORCYCLE, WHETHER THAT WAS SOMEBODY WHO WAS WEAVING, SPEEDING EXCESSIVELY.

THESE ARE THINGS I FOCUSED ON VERY HEAVILY.

THROUGH MY INVESTIGATION, I WOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WERE IMPAIRED.

SO THE FIRST STEP IS VEHICLE IN MOTION.

WHAT KIND OF VIOLATION DID THIS PERSON EXHIBIT?

WERE THEY SPEEDING, WERE THEY WEAVING ACROSS MULTIPLE LANES?

WERE THEY DRIVING TOO SLOWLY?

DID THEY HAVE DIFFICULTY JUDGING THE SPACE BETWEEN VEHICLES?

UPON MY CONTACT WITH THE OPERATOR, I'M JUDGING THEIR APPEARANCE.

HOW THEY'RE RESPONDING TO MY QUESTIONS FOR THEIR LICENSE AND REGISTRATION.

I MIGHT OBSERVE ALCOHOL IMPAIRMENT OR OTHER TYPES OF DRUG IMPAIRMENT.

BASED ON THAT, I WOULD ASK THAT INDIVIDUAL TO PARTICIPATE ON A STANDARDIZED FIELD SOBRIETY TEST.

THAT TEST HAVE THREE PHASES.

WE ASK THEM TO LOOK AT A STIMULUS WITH THEIR EYES, AND WE JUDGE THEIR ABILITY TO FOLLOW.

AND THEN WE ASK THEM TO DO A WALK AND TURN TESTS.

AND WE HAVE SEVERAL CLUES FOR SIGNS OF IMPAIRMENT, AS WELL AS ONE LEG STAND TEST.

AFTER ALL THIS, WE TAKE THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES, THEIR DRIVING PATTERN, THEIR ABILITY TO PROVIDE ME WITH THEIR REGISTRATION, MY INTERACTION WITH THEM, AS WELL AS THE SOBRIETY TEST.

AT THAT JUNCTURE, I WOULD MAKE THE DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT I WAS GOING TO ARREST THIS PERSON FOR DUI.

THEN OFFER THEM A PRELIMINARY ALCOHOL SCREENING.

THIS IS THE BREATH TEST.

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERSON PROVIDE A BREATH SAMPLE THERE.

IF AN OFFICER IS OFFERING THIS BREATH ALCOHOL OR SCREENING AT THAT POINT, THEY MADE A DECISION THAT YOU ARE IMPAIRED, AND THEY SHOULD REMOVE YOU FROM THE ROADWAY FOR YOUR SAFETY AND THE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU PROVIDED A SAMPLE, AND IT'S BELOW .08, THE OFFICER COULD CHOOSE TO MAYBE PROVIDE A RIDESHARE OR GIVE SOME OTHER OPTION OTHER THAN AN ARREST.

THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD BASED OUR ARREST ON.

>> Olena: ALEX, WHAT OTHER TYPES OF ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR FOLKS?

>> THE BEST ADVICE MAKE A PLAN.

I WANT TO SPEAK TO THE LICENSE SUSPENSION.

50 TO 75% OF PEOPLE CONTINUE TO DRIVE WITH A SUSPENDED LICENSE AND MANY CONTINUE TO DRIVE DRUNK.

THAT IS VERY CONCERNING TO BE OUR ONLY WAY OF STOPPING PEOPLE.

LIKE WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, IT'S A CHOICE.

PEOPLE ARE CONTINUING TO MAKE THIS CHOICE.

THE STUDY OUT OF UTAH ALSO SHOWED THAT THE LOWERING THE BAC TO .05 HAD AN IMPACT.

CHOOSING NOT TO DRINK AND DRIVE.

WE'RE THANKFUL FOR THIS CULTURE SHIFT IN UTAH.

MY ADVICE IS MAKE A PLAN.

WE'RE NOT AGAINST PEOPLE DRINKING WHO ARE OF LEGAL DRINKING AGE.

DO SO IN A WAY THAT MAKE SURE YOU GET TO HOME AT NIGHT.

MAKE SURE YOU GET TO GO HOME WITHOUT HURTING ANYONE.

MAKE A PLAN BEFORE THAT FIRST DRINK.

AFTER ONE DRINK, YOUR PERCEPTION MAY BE DIFFERENT.

YOU MAY BE IMPAIRED TO THE POINT YOU WOULDN'T MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

HAVE A PLAN.

HAVE YOUR FRIEND DRIVE YOU HOME.

MAKE SURE IT PROTECTS YOURSELF AND YOUR COMMUNITY.

>> COULD I RESPOND ON THE LICENSE SUSPENSION ISSUE?

I JUST WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THE LICENSE SUSPENSION.

I'VE HAD A LOT OF THOSE CASES.

OUR CONCERN, MY OFFICE HAS RAISED THIS ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS AT THE LEGISLATURE, BUT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPACT FOR THOSE IN POVERTY VERSUS THOSE WHO ARE NOT WHEN IT COMES TO LICENSE SUSPENSION.

IF YOU CAN AFFORD AN EMISSION AIR LOCK DEVICE, THAT DOES ALLOW YOU TO DRIVE WHILE YOUR LICENSE IS SUSPENDED.

>> Olena: HOW MUCH DOES ONE COST?

>> I'M NOT SURE THE IMPACT AMOUNT.

I WANT TO SAY $60 OR $80 TO INSTALL.

ABOUT $60 A MONTH.

YOU CAN GET A 50% DISCOUNT IF YOU MEET CERTAIN INDIGENT QUALIFICATIONS.

THOSE HURDLES ARE HARDER AND HARDER TO GET DOCUMENTATION FOR.

SO EVEN A LOT OF OUR CLIENTS THAT ARE IN POVERTY STILL CAN'T GET THE PROPER DOCUMENTATION TO SHOW THAT.

ALSO, EVEN IF YOU CAN, IF YOU DON'T OWN YOUR OWN CAR, YOU CAN'T GET AN IGNITION AIR LOCK DEVICE.

THOSE THAT ARE OF MEANS ARE ABLE TO GET THOSE AND DRIVE LAWFULLY DURING THE LICENSE SUSPENSION.

THOSE WHO CAN'T AFFORD IT CAN'T DRIVE.

NOT THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL, NOT TO WORK.

A LOT OF MY CLIENTS, IT AFFECTS THEIR ABILITY TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILY.

I UNDERSTAND THE THOUGHT PROCESS, BUT IT DOES HAVE A DIFFERENT IMPACT FROM THOSE SUFFERING FROM POVERTY.

>> I DO WANT TO MAKE NOTE THAT DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE.

WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A CHOICE, KNOWING THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE THEIR ABILITY TO DRIVE, THEY MAKE THAT CHOICE.

DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT.

AND SO WHILE WE WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR KIDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THEY'RE THE PERSON WHO MADE THE CHOICE.

>> Olena: WE ARE GETTING QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS.

SO TOM FROM WAIKIKI IS TELLING RICHARD BERMAN, IS IT RESPONSIBLE TO DRINK ANY AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL AND THEN DRIVE?

>> YES.

THE LAW SAYS THAT IT'S PERFECTLY FINE TO DO THAT AS LONG AS YOU DON'T EXCEED THE PROPER LIMIT.

YOU KNOW, DRIVING AT NIGHT IS MORE DANGEROUS HAS BEEN DRIVING IN THE DAYTIME.

THINK OF DIFFERENT WAYS PEOPLE ARE IMPAIRED.

DRIVING WHILE LISTENING TO THE RADIO IS CONSIDERED TO BE AN IMPAIRMENT.

AS I SAID EARLIER, DRIVING WHILE YOU'RE TALKING ON A CELL PHONE, YOU'RE IN CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE AND YOU'RE DISTRACTED, THAT'S CONSIDERED AN IMPAIRMENT.

WE NEVER USED TO TALK ABOUT IMPAIRMENT.

WE ONLY TALKED ABOUT DRUNK.

AND THE SEMANTICS OF THE CONVERSATION CHANGED.

PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT IMPAIRMENT.

SERGEANT CAN TALK ABOUT IMPAIRMENT AT .02, WHICH IS A LITTLE SILLY IN THE SENSE THAT ACCIDENTS THAT ARE CAUSED BY DRUNK DRIVERS IN HAWAI'I ARE NOT AT .02.

THEY'RE GENERALLY AT .05 WHAT YOU HAVE IN HAWAI'I, THE AVERAGE FATALITY IN HAWAI'I FROM A DRUNK DRIVER IS .08.

THAT'S THE AVERAGE.

.08 IS NEARLY FOUR TIMES THIS .05 LEVEL.

AND AS SARA SUGGESTED EARLIER, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO COULD GET ARRESTED AFTER HAVING ONE DRINK.

AND THAT'S TERRIBLY UNFAIR WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO GO AFTER THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE HAVING A SIX PACK OF BEER OR DRINKING HALF A BOTTLE OF BOURBON, AND YOU'RE PASSING A LAW THAT IS GOING TO AFFECT PEOPLE WHO HAD TINY AMOUNTS OF ALCOHOL IN THEIR SYSTEM, WHICH ARE NOT RELATED TO DRUNK DRIVING.

YES, I DO BELIEVE PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED FREEDOM TO HAVE A DRINK AND TO HAVE TWO DRINKS, IF THE CASE MAY BE.

YOUR BODY METABOLIZES ALCOHOL WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING ARRESTED, OF GOING TO JAIL, BECAUSE YOU CAN GO TO JAIL.

LOSING YOUR LICENSE AND HAVING EXTREMELY HIGH INSURANCE RATES FOR SEVERAL YEARS AFTER YOU'VE BEEN ARRESTED.

PEOPLE IN SOME STATES ARE LOSING $10,000 JUST FOR DUI.

THEY WERE NOT AT RISK FOR THEMSELVES OR OTHER PEOPLE.

THAT'S THE TRAGEDY HERE.

I THINK WE HAVE TO STAY FOCUSED ON HIGH BAC DRIVERS AND REPEAT OFFENDERS.

THE FELLOW WHO RAN OVER ALEX HAD DONE THIS SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE.

HE HAD BEEN ARRESTED SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE.

THE WOMAN WHO FORMED MADD HAD HER DAUGHTER KILLED, AND THE FELLA THAT KILLED HER HAD HAD SEVERAL PRIOR ARRESTS.

THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STILL GETTING AWAY WITH MURDER, QUITE FRANKLY, AND THAT'S WHERE THE ATTENTION SHOULD BE.

>> Olena: WE HAVE A COMMENT FROM GAIL ON FACEBOOK.

SHE SAYS, I THINK IF YOU HAVE A DUI, THE CAR SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY OR IMPOUNDED FOR A TIME PERIOD, DEPENDING ON THE OFFENSE.

CURRENT DETERRENTS ARE INSUFFICIENT.

IT'S BEST TO BE TOUGHER BECAUSE DAMAGE CAN BE PERMANENT AND/OR FATAL.

DETERRENT SHOULD FIT THE CRIME.

A QUESTION FROM CHADWICK ON FACEBOOK.

SERGEANT, HOW MANY DEADLY CRASHES IN HAWAI'I HAVE BEEN ALCOHOL RELATED?

>> SO THIS YEAR ALONE, WE'VE HAD 17 FATAL COLLISIONS.

FIVE OF THOSE WERE CAUSED OR HAD IMPAIRING FACTORS OF ALCOHOL.

TO ME, THAT'S FOUR, FIVE TOO MANY.

SOMETHING THAT, AS ALEX REPRESENTED, IT'S A CHOICE.

GETTING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A VEHICLE AFTER DRINKING AND BEING IMPAIRED AND DRIVING.

AND I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE MISCONCEPTION THAT ONE DRINK IS GOING TO IMPAIR YOU.

WE KEEP SAYING ONE DRINK AND A PETITE FEMALE IS GOING TO BE A .05.

I DON'T SEE ANY STATISTICS OR STUDIES THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT.

BUT THAT HAS REPEATEDLY BEEN THROWN OUT THERE.

ONE DRINK AND I'M GOING TO BE IMPAIRED.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT IF IT DOES IMPAIR YOU, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING.

I WOULD INVITE ANYBODY TO OUR ALCOHOL WORKSHOPS.

IN MY NINE -- EIGHT YEARS IN THE DUI TASK FORCE, I HAVE OVER FOUR ALCOHOL WORKSHOPS A YEAR.

I WAS A PART OF EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM.

WE HAVE PETITE FEMALES THAT DEMOGRAPHIC.

NOT ONE OF THEM HAD ONE DRINK AND ARE ABOVE A .05.

THE LAST ALCOHOL WORKSHOP WE HAD, 14 INDIVIDUALS, I HAD A FEMALE THAT WOULD FIT THAT DEMOGRAPHIC.

5'2," 110 POUND FEMALE.

AFTER HAVING THREE DRINKS, IS ONLY AT .042.

THIS IS AFTER NOT EATING AND IN ONE HOUR OF DRINKING.

THIS IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY HAD TAKEN THEIR LAST DRINK.

15 MINUTE DEPRIVATION PERIOD.

SOMEONE ARRESTED AND TESTED FOR A BAC, THEY DRIVE THEIR MOTOR VEHICLE, THEY GET SUBJECTED TO A SOBRIETY TEST.

THEY GET ARRESTED, GO DOWN TO THE POLICE STATION WHERE THEY MIGHT SUBMIT TO A TEST.

THIS TEST IS DONE WELL BEYOND 15 MINUTES AFTER THEY HAD A DRINK.

POSSIBLY AFTER AN HOUR OR TWO HOURS AFTER THEIR LAST DRINK.

SO .04 OR .05 ONE DRINK, THAT IS NOT HAPPENING IN THAT DEMOGRAPHIC.

>> Olena: THANK YOU.

>> IF I COULD, I WASN'T THERE WHEN THE SERGEANT WAS DOING THESE TESTS WITH THESE PEOPLE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE LITERATURE, WHICH IS PEER REVIEW, HAS SHOWN EXACTLY WHAT SARA HAD SAID BEFORE.

THAT A 120-POUND WOMAN WOULD BE AT .05 WITH A LITTLE MORE THAN ONE GLASS OF WINE.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT STATISTICS BEAR OUT.

THAT STUDIES UNIVERSITIES AND RESEARCH GRANTS HAVE SUPPORTED.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TEST WAS THAT THEY HAD IN HAWAI'I, BUT I'M ONLY GOING AFTER THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT IS CENTRAL TO THIS DEBATE.

.05 IS A RELATIVELY LOW LEVEL OF ALCOHOL FOR, AS THE SERGEANT SAID, MEDIUM SIZE WOMAN.

AND PUTTING THESE PEOPLE AT RISK FOR LITERALLY GOING TO JAIL FOR HAVING A GLASS OF WINE IS RIDICULOUS.

THAT IS NOT WHERE THE ACCIDENTS ARE HAPPENING.

I DOUBT IF ANY OF THOSE FATALITIES THAT THE SERGEANT TALKED ABOUT WAS AT .05.

>> Olena: THE BILL ISN'T MOVING FORWARD.

SO MAYBE WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AS WELL.

WE HAVE A QUESTION, IS THERE A STATISTIC ON THE SUCCESS RATE OF DUI CONVICTION BY THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE?

WOULD WE KNOW ANY OF THAT?

YOU KNOW?

>> I DON'T KNOW THE STATISTICS ON THE SUCCESS RATE.

>> Olena: OKAY.

COULD THERE BE ANOTHER LAW TO INCLUDE ADDITIONAL PENALTIES FOR DRIVING A SECONDARY CAR OTHER THAN THEIR INTERLOCKED CAR?

>> CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?

>> COULD THERE BE ANOTHER LAW TO INCLUDE ADDITIONAL PENALTIES FOR DRIVING A SECONDARY CAR?

IF SOMEONE CONVICTED HAS AN INTERLOCKING DEVICE, BUT THEY DRIVE SOMEONE ELSE'S CAR?

>> I CAN ANSWER THAT.

IF YOUR LICENSE IS SUSPENDED OR REVOKED FOR DUI, AND YOU'RE APPROVED FOR THE EMISSION INTERLOCK DEVICE, YOU CAN ONLY DRIVE THE CAR WITH THE EMISSION INTERLOCK DEVICE.

YOU CAN'T DRIVE A SECOND CAR.

THAT WOULD BE DRIVING WHILE LICENSE IS SUSPENDED.

THAT WOULD HAVE THE SAME PENALTIES.

>> Olena: SHELL SAYS, NO MATTER HOW TOUGH THE LAW GETS, THERE'S GOING TO BE PEOPLE DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

WHAT ALEX SAID IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED OR THERE HAS TO BE OTHER WAYS LIKE DISCOUNTED UBER OR SHARERIDES OF TAXIS.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO GET A RIDE FROM HPD?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE THAT SERVICE FOR INDIVIDUALS, PROVIDING A RIDE FOR INTOXICATED MOTORISTS.

THE RIDESHARE PROGRAMS, THERE ARE MANY THAT YOU COULD UTILIZE AS WELL AS GETTING A FRIEND TO TAKE YOU.

I WOULD BE HAPPY TO LOOK AT SOME PROGRAMS, HPD INCENTIVES IF ONE WERE TO CONTACT US.

WE COULD PROVIDE THAT SERVICE, WHETHER IT BE GIFT CARDS OR SOMETHING ELSE.

>> Olena: ALEX, YOU HAVE SOME PROMOTIONS DURING THREE-DAY WEEKENDS WHERE YOU'RE ENCOURAGING RIDESHARE.

>> YES.

WE PARTNER WITH UBER AND LYFT.

SOMETIMES WE'RE ABLE TO HAVE PROMOTIONS FOR POPULAR HOLIDAYS.

WE JUST DID FOR ST. PATRICK'S DAY.

WE ENCOURAGE PEOPLE AT ALL TIMES TO MAKE A PLAN, USE A RIDESHARE.

OFTENTIMES UBER GETS INVOLVED AND IS ABLE TO PROVIDE DISCOUNTS.

WE WANT TO GIVE PEOPLE ALL OF THE OPTIONS TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

THERE ARE SO MANY OPTIONS, WHETHER IT'S CALLING A FRIEND, RIDESHARE.

SO MANY WAYS TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

WE WANT TO MAKE IT EASY AS POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT MR. BERMAN KEEPS MENTIONING MY OFFENDER WAS AT .08.

THAT IS MY STORY.

THAT IS TRUE.

THAT IS NOT EVERYONE'S STORY.

AND I TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE DAY WHO LOST THEIR CHILDREN TO PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE BEEN AT .08.

MAY HAVE BEEN AT .03 BUT HAD OTHER THINGS IN THEIR SYSTEM.

MY STORY IS NOT EVERYONE'S STORY.

AND WHILE MY STORY IS VERY CLOSE TO ME AND VERY IMPACTFUL FOR ME, I TALK TO PEOPLE EVERY SINGLE DAY WHO HAVE STORIES VERY DIFFERENT THAN MINE.

BECAUSE THE AVERAGE BAC IN HAWAI'I MAY BE HIGHER, THAT'S NOT THE STORY FOR EVERY VICTIM.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE PROTECT.

>> CAN I SHOW YOU SOME -- SOME STATISTICS HERE?

>> Olena: SURE.

I LOVE YOUR RESEARCH.

>> IF YOU'RE A FAN OF KARL ROVE, HE ALWAYS HAS A WHITE BOARD.

I DON'T HAVE A WHITE BOARD.

THESE ARE HAWAI'I STATISTICS.

AND WHAT I WANT YOU TO SEE, THESE ARE DWI FATALITIES WHERE ALCOHOL IS RELATED TO THE ACCIDENT.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE DRIVER WAS THE ONE WHO HAD THE ALCOHOL.

COULD HAVE BEEN A PASSENGER, COULD HAVE BEEN A PEDESTRIAN WHO WAS DRUNK.

THIS IS WHERE THE ACCIDENTS ARE.

IF YOU LOOK DOWN HERE, WHAT I'VE GOT IS ALL THE BAC CATEGORIES THAT ARE LOWER THAN .08.

THIS IS FROM .02 TO .05 TO .08, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, DOWN HERE, ALL OF THESE ARE BASICALLY THE SAME, WHICH IS TO SAY THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO AFTER A .05 DRIVER, THEN YOU CAN GO AFTER A .02 DRIVER, WHICH WOULD BE HALF A GLASS OF WINE.

IT'S THE SAME LEVEL OF ACCIDENT RATE, AND IT'S THE SAME IMPAIRMENT IF YOU WANT TO TRANSLATE ACCIDENTS INTO IMPAIRMENT.

THIS IS THE SILLY PART.

ONE QUOTE IN THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE.

BY THE FOUNDER OF MADD.

FOUNDER OF MADD SAID, IF YOU'LL ALLOW ME TO READ IT.

SHE SAID, THE TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMUNITY IS DISTRACTED BY AN ISSUE THAT WILL DO LITTLE TO SAVE LIVES.

THAT IS, LOWERING THE DRUNK DRIVING THRESHOLD FROM .08 TO .05.

SHE WAS ANGRY THAT THEY WERE FOCUSING IN UTAH ABOUT GOING TO .05 WHEN THE PROBLEM WAS FAR IN EXCESS OF .08.

SHE SAID, WE'RE ARGUING ABOUT -- KIND OF LIKE TRYING TO LOWER THE SPEED LIMIT FROM 55 TO 50.

OR 65 TO 60.

ALL THE SPEEDING AND RECKLESS DRIVING IS AT 80 AND 90.

LOWERING IT BY FIVE MILES AN HOUR DOESN'T DO A THING FOR PEOPLE ALREADY IN GROSS VIOLATION OF THE CURRENT LAW.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

THE REASON WE CONTINUE TO HAVE THE PROBLEM, AND REMEMBER AGAIN I WAS A CONSULTANT TO MADD.

I UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM FOR MADD'S PERSPECTIVE.

I UNDERSTAND THE ANGER AND THE EMOTION, BUT PEOPLE WHO DRINK AT THESE LEVELS, THESE ABUSIVE LEVELS HAVE A DISEASE.

THEY'RE ALCOHOLICS, AND IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO ADDRESS THOSE PEOPLE.

TRAFFIC SAFETY COMMUNITY SAYS LET'S DO SOMETHING.

WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE SO THEY GO AFTER SOCIAL DRINKERS.

THAT'S NOT WHERE THE PROBLEM IS.

WE HAVE TO STOP THAT AND RECOGNIZE THAT IF WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM, WE HAVE TO GO AFTER THE PROBLEM AND NOT GO SOMEPLACE ELSE.

BE DISTRACTED BY ANYBODY HAVING A DRINK RATHER THAN PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSIVE DRINKERS, AND THAT ABUSIVE DRINKER ALMOST KILLED ALEX, AND THAT HAS TO STOP.

>> NUMBER ONE, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME SINCE YOU WERE A CONSULTANT TO MADD.

THERE'S NOTHING SILLY ABOUT DRUNK DRINKING.

THERE'S NOTHING SILLY ABOUT BEING A DRUNK DRIVING OFFENDER.

THEY ARE NOT ACCIDENTS.

YOU KEEP SAYING THAT WHEN YOU REFERENCE YOUR CHART.

THEY'RE CHOICES AND CRIMES.

I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO ALL OF THE FAMILIES WHO HAD SOMEONE THAT WAS SAVED IN THE STATE OF UTAH BECAUSE THE BAC WAS LOWERED TO .05, BUT I CAN'T BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT PART OF MY COMMUNITY BECAUSE THEY WERE SAVED BY THE BAC LOWERING TO .05.

AND BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO WERE IMPAIRED AND NOT SAFE TO DRIVE WERE TAKEN OFF THE ROADWAY BEFORE THEY HAD THE POWER TO KILL OR INJURE SOMEONE.

>> IT'S GREAT, ALEX, THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU KNOW ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE SAVED BY HAVING A LOWER BAC LEVEL, BUT IT'S DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO IDENTIFY ANYBODY.

I COULD NOT IDENTIFY ANYBODY WHO WAS SAVED BY A LAW THAT -- THAT THE STATISTICS SAY DON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

IN 2020, ONE YEAR AFTER THE BAC LAW AT .05 WAS PASSED IN UTAH, UTAH WENT UP BY 50%.

THEY WENT UP SUBSTANTIALLY MORE THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

SO IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT BAC LAW SAVING LIVES, IT WASN'T HAVING ANY EFFECT IN UTAH.

AND THE RESTAURANT COMMUNITY WAS UPSET WHEN THIS WAS BEING PASSED IN UTAH.

THEY WERE AFRAID THEY WERE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF REVENUE.

AND IT TURNED OUT THEY DIDN'T, WHICH IS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING PEOPLE WERE DRINKING AT THE SAME LEVEL.

AND .05 WASN'T AFFECTING ANYBODY'S BEHAVIOR.

>> Olena: WE HAVE MORE COMMENTS AND QUESTIONS.

ONE IS, HOW WILL REDUCING IT IMPROVE THE LEVEL OF PEOPLE WITH MULTIPLE PRIOR CONVICTIONS?

OR HOW WILL IF AFFECT THOSE IF THEY HAVE MULTIPLE PRIOR CONVICTIONS?

>> DO YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER THAT?

SO I GUESS LOWERING -- IT'S KIND OF A COMPLICATED QUESTION.

CERTAINLY, MORE DRIVERS THAT ARE PULLED OVER FOR IMPAIRED DRIVING OR BELIEF THAT THERE'S IMPAIRED DRIVING, THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL CONVICTIONS IF WE LOWER THE AMOUNT TO .05.

SOMEONE WHO HAS PRIOR CONVICTIONS COULD GET A NEW CONVICTION THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GOT OTHERWISE.

I WILL SAY -- AND I DON'T HAVE STATISTICS BUT FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, MULTIPLE -- PEOPLE WHO HAVE MULTIPLE DUI'S OFTEN HAVE ALCOHOL ADDICTION ISSUES.

THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE CAPTURED BY A .05.

THEY'RE OFTEN EXTREMELY DRUNK WHEN THEY'RE PULLED OVER.

THAT WOULD BE A HABITUAL FELONY CASE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> Olena: SERGEANT, HAVE THERE BEEN ANY NEW TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENTS OR IS THERE ANYTHING NEW THAT YOU CAN SPEAK OF?

>> THE WAY OFFICERS FOCUS THEIR ATTENTION TO IMPAIRED DRIVING IS THAT AS WE STOP HAZARDOUS MOTOR VEHICLE OPERATIONS, WHETHER IT'S SPEEDING OR DRIVING HAZARDLY ACROSS MULTIPLE LANES.

THAT TECHNOLOGY HASN'T CHANGED.

THAT'S THE OFFICER.

WE IMPLEMENT A BREATH TEST.

THAT TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN THERE.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME MODIFICATIONS TO MAKE THAT SYSTEM FASTER OR MORE EFFICIENT BUT IT'S THE SAME TECHNOLOGY.

>> Olena: DEAN ON OAHU SAYS, RATHER THAN LOSING YOUR LICENSE AFTER MULTIPLE CONVICTIONS, YOU SHOULD ALSO LOSE YOUR CAR.

WE HAVE RETIRED MAUI POLICE OFFICER THAT ALSO SAYS HE AGREES WITH THE SERGEANT.

THERE'S MUCH MORE TO DRUNK DRIVING THAN WHAT RICHARD IS SAYING.

YOU CAN'T COMPARE IT TO SOMEONE ON THEIR CELL PHONE.

HE HASN'T HAD TO KNOCK ON SOMEONE'S DOOR AND SAY SOMEONE'S DEAD.

WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A SIMPLE OR AN EASY SOLUTION.

ALEX, IF YOU COULD TELL US MORE ABOUT WHAT MADD IS DOING TO MOVE FORWARD AND ALSO TRY TO HELP THOSE THAT MAY NEED HELP IF THEY NEED IT OR FAMILIES THAT ARE IN NEED.

>> WE ARE HERE TO SUPPORT VICTIMS OF DRUNKEN DRIVING FOREVER.

JUSTICE DOESN'T BEGIN AND END IN THE COURTROOM.

PART OF BEING A VICTIM OF THIS CRIME IS IT DOESN'T GO AWAY.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU LIVE THROUGH OR GET OVER.

IT'S PART OF YOUR LIFE.

SO OUR ORGANIZATION SERVES THE VICTIMS DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

WE ARE WITH PEOPLE TO HOLD THEIR HAND WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO GET OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING, AND I HAVE THOSE DAYS MYSELF.

WE ARE HERE TO SERVE THE VICTIMS AND FAMILIES.

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE'RE WORKING TECHNOLOGY FOCUSED RIGHT NOW WAS RECENTLY PASSED BY CONGRESS AND SIGNED BY THE PRESIDENT NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.

IT IS A MANDATE THAT WILL PUT DRUNK DRIVING PREVENTION TECHNOLOGY AS STANDARD EQUIPMENT IN ALL NEW VEHICLES, AND WE ARE SO GRATEFUL AND SO EXCITED.

THE HIGHWAY SAFETY ESTIMATES THAT ONCE THIS TECHNOLOGY IS IN ALL NEW CARS, IT WILL SAVE AN ESTIMATED 9,400 LIVES EVERY YEAR AND COUNTLESS INJURIES.

WE KNOW THAT MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE ARE KILLED EVERY YEAR AND MORE THAN 300,000 ARE INJURED.

THIS TECHNOLOGY COULD ELIMINATE DRUNK DRIVING.

NO MATTER WHAT LEGISLATION IS PASSED OR WHAT TECHNOLOGY IS CREATED, IT WILL COME DOWN TO PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

WE ARE OUT THERE WITH OUR PROGRAMS AND WITH OUR STORIES.

WE KNOW IT'S EASY IF THEY KNOW THE STATISTICS.

IT'S HARD TO SAY NO TO SOMEONE TELLING YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM.

WE ARE OUT TO RAISE AWARENESS AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

>> Olena: IS THAT TECHNOLOGY THAT WOULD DETECT IF YOU'VE BEEN DRINKING?

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

NO.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES.

WHAT IT LOOKS FOR IS IMPAIRMENT.

SO THERE ARE THREE OPTIONS.

DRIVING PERFORMANCE MONITORING, WHICH ARE THINGS LIKE AUTOMATIC BRAKING.

DRIVER MONITORING, WHICH WOULD PUT CAMERAS IN THE DASH OR REAR VIEW MIRROR TO MONITOR A PERSON'S HEAD MOVEMENT.

OR ALCOHOL DETECTION.

NO ONE KNOWS WHAT TECHNOLOGY IS GOING TO BE THE FINAL DECISION YET.

THEY HAVE THREE YEARS TO MAKE A DECISION.

MOST TECHNOLOGY WILL BE LOOKING AT WHETHER A PERSON IS SAFE TO OPERATE A VEHICLE.

>> Olena: A COMMENT FROM LESLIE IN HONOLULU.

WHY DON'T THEY MAKE IT COST DRUNK DRIVERS MORE?

TAKE AWAY THEIR LICENSE, TAKE AWAY THEIR CAR.

MAKE THEM GO TO JAIL.

MAKE THEM PAY A HIGHER FINE.

THE GUY WHO KILLED A PEDESTRIAN THIS PAST YEAR DIDN'T HAVE A LICENSE.

HOW DID HE GET A CAR TO DRIVE?

SARA?

>> I CAN TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT PENALTIES.

I'LL JUST NOTE MY CONCERN ALWAYS, PARTICULARLY BECAUSE AS A PUBLIC DEFENDER, I REPRESENT THOSE THAT ARE INDIGENT SO THEY CANNOT AFFORD THEIR OWN ATTORNEY.

WHEN YOU BASE PENALTIES ON FINES ON MONEY, PEOPLE WHO HAVE MEANS ARE NOT GOING TO BE GREATLY AFFECTED.

THOSE WHO DO NOT HAVE MEANS, WHO DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY ARE GREATLY AFFECTED.

THAT IS ONE OF MY MAJOR CONCERNS.

I UNDERSTAND THAT I'M NO FAN OF DRUNK DRIVING MYSELF.

I UNDERSTAND THAT WE DON'T WANT DRUNK DRIVING, BUT WE HAVE TO BE AWARE OF HOW DIFFERENT TYPES OF PENALTIES AFFECT DIFFERENT PEOPLE BASED OFF OF THEIR ECONOMIC SITUATION.

SO I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE'S CONCERN, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION PEOPLE'S FINANCIAL ABILITY TO COMPLY WITH THESE PENALTIES.

SO I WILL -- THE PENALTY STRUCTURE IN HAWAI'I, THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILS SO I DON'T WANT TO BORE EVERYONE WITH IT, BUT THERE IS A MANDATORY -- FOR FIRST OFFENSE DUI, THERE IS A MANDATORY 14 HOUR CLASS.

WHETHER YOU'RE POOR OR RICH, YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT CLASS.

THAT'S A PENALTY THAT APPLIES EQUAL TO EVERYONE.

THERE'S SUBSTANCE ABUSE ASSESSMENT IN ANY RECOMMENDED TREATMENT.

IF THEY FIND THAT YOU HAVE A SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUE, THAT'S REQUIRED.

AND THAT'S FOR FIRST OFFENSE DUI.

SO THERE ARE PENALTIES THAT ARE ALREADY IN PLACE THAT I THINK WOULD APPLY TO PEOPLE EQUALLY AND NOT BASED ON THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS.

>> Olena: ALL RIGHT.

SERGEANT, WOULD MORE DUI CHECKPOINTS HELP THE ISSUE?

WHAT'S THE STATUS OF CHECKPOINTS?

>> I'M NOT SURE TARGETING AREAS THAT HAVE BARS WOULD NECESSARILY REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF COLLISIONS.

WE DO HAVE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR RANDOM CHECKPOINTS.

WE CHOOSE THE LOCATION BASED ON THE NUMBER OF DUI ARRESTS OR IF THERE HAD BEEN RECENT FATALITIES THERE.

OUR GOAL WITH THE SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT IS TO KEEP EVERYBODY HONEST.

WE'RE ENFORCING THE DUI LAWS.

IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE DRIVING WHILE IMPAIRED OR HAD A FEW DRINKS, IT'S A REMINDER IF YOU SEE THE SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT TO DON'T DRIVE IMPAIRED.

IF YOU HAD TOO MUCH, MAYBE USE ONE OF THOSE RIDESHARES.

INCREASING THE NUMBER WOULD SHOW THE PUBLIC WE'RE SERIOUS ABOUT IMPAIRED DRIVING.

IT IS NOT OKAY TO DRIVE WHILE YOU'RE IMPAIRED.

>> MR. BERMAN, FROM THE AMERICAN BEVERAGE INSTITUTE, WHAT CAN YOU SAY ABOUT HOW YOU MIGHT BE ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO ACT RESPONSIBLY?

>> THE AMERICAN BEVERAGE INSTITUTE IS A RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION, AND RESTAURANTS -- ONE OF THE ONES I WAS COUNSELING IN THE '70S WAS THE FIRST TO PROVIDE FREE RIDES TO PEOPLE.

THEY DO AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT TO STOP PEOPLE FROM HAVING A DRINK.

THAT'S BEYOND WHAT LOOKS LIKE RESPONSIBLE CONSUMPTION.

IN FACT, RESTAURANTS WILL PROVIDE WAITERS AND WAITRESSES WITH A GUARANTEED TIP ON THE TABLE IF THEY'RE GOING TO TRIGGER THE MANAGER TO TELL THE CUSTOMER THAT THEY CAN NO LONGER HAVE ANY MORE DRINKS BECAUSE THE CUSTOMER MIGHT LEAVE A CRUMMY TIP FOR THE WAITER OR WAITRESS.

ONE THING THAT THE RESTAURANTS HAVE DONE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE IS BE THERE WHERE DRINKS ARE BEING CONSUMED AND TO STOP OVERINDULGENCE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN EVERY RESTAURANT CAN AWARDED WITH INTERDICTING SOMEONE WHO'S HAD TOO MUCH TO DRINK.

THERE'S BEEN MUCH MORE OF THAT OVER THE YEARS, AND THAT'S CUT YOU DOWN ON A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD GET ON THE ROAD WITH THEIR CAR KEYS IN THEIR HAND.

AND RESTAURANTS CONTINUE TO OPERATE RESPONSIBLY IN THAT REGARD.

>> Olena: ANOTHER COMMENT FROM AN ANONYMOUS VIEWER.

HOPEFULLY, SELF-DRIVING CARS CAN HAVE AN IMPACT ON DRUNK DRIVING.

WHAT ARE YOUR GUYS' THOUGHTS?

>> I'LL LEAVE THAT TO MR. MUSK.

[LAUGHTER] >> Olena: AND OBVIOUSLY, THERE HAS BEEN A PROGRESSION IN TERMS OF AND WHATNOT.

IN TERMS OF RIDESHARES AND TAXI AND ALL THAT, THERE ARE OPTIONS.

I THINK THAT IS THE MESSAGE ALEX IS TRYING TO MAKE CLEAR.

WHAT DO YOU SEE IN TERMS OF YOUR CLIENTS' MOST FREQUENTLY -- WHEN THEY COME TO YOU AND THEY NEED YOUR HELP?

>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THEIR CONCERNS MAYBE?

SO ONE -- I'VE SAID THIS A FEW TIMES, BUT A BIG ISSUE FOR MY CLIENTS IS OBVIOUSLY THE MONEY.

HOW DO I KEEP MY JOB?

HOW DO I TAKE MY KIDS TO SCHOOL?

HOW IS THIS GOING TO AFFECTS MY FAMILY'S LIFE AND MY LIFE?

IT MIGHT BE IF IT'S A SUBSTANCE ABUSE OR TREATMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT I REPRESENT A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH DUI'S AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD DRIVER'S LICENSE REVOKED.

SOMETHING THAT MY OFFICE HAS BROUGHT UP AND WE'RE VERY CONCERNED WITH, YOU LOOK AT A FIRST OFFENSE DUI.

WHILE YOU CAN GET JAIL TIME, THERE'S NO MANDATORY JAIL TIME FOR FIRST OFFENSE DUI.

OR A FIRST OFFENSE DRIVER'S LICENSE REVOKED FOR DUI.

YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY DRUNK BUT YOU ARE DRIVING ON A SUSPENDED LICENSE.

HAS THREE DAYS MANDATORY JAIL.

EVEN IF SOMEONE SAYS IT WAS AN EMERGENCY, I'M DRIVING MY KID TO THE ER.

I'M TRYING TO GET TO WORK.

I WAS GOING TO GET FIRED IF I WAS LATE.

NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEIR STORY MIGHT BE, THE JUDGE CAN'T GET AROUND THOSE THREE DAYS.

A SECOND OFFENSE IS A WHOLE MONTH IN JAIL.

AND A THIRD OFFENSE IS A WHOLE YEAR.

I REPRESENT PEOPLE CHARGED WITH MANY DIFFERENT MISDEMEANORS, PETTY MISDEMEANORS.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, AN ASSAULT, WHICH IS A VERY SERIOUS AND VIOLENT CRIME.

IT DOESN'T HAVE MANDATORY MINIMUM JAIL TIME.

BUT YOU DRIVE THIRD TIME NOT NECESSARILY DRUNK BUT ON SUSPENDED LICENSE FOR DUI, YOU'RE IN JAIL ONE YEAR.

YOU CANNOT GET AROUND IT.

SO YOU'RE AWAY FROM YOUR KIDS.

YOU'RE AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILY.

AND AGAIN, IF YOU HAVE THE MEANS, YOU CAN PAY FOR AN EMISSION INTERLOCK DEVICE AND YOU CAN DRIVE ON A SUSPENDED LICENSE.

MY CLIENTS ARE VERY CONCERNED WITH WHEN THEY COME IN WITH THOSE TYPES OF CHARGES.

>> Olena: ALEX, WHAT KIND OF CONCERNS ARE YOU HEARING FROM MOTHERS AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING?

>> I WORK A LOT WITH VICTIMS.

I AM A VICTIM MYSELF, AND I TALK EVERY DAY TO PEOPLE WHO LOST THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE OF SOMEONE'S CHOICE.

WHILE I SYMPATHIZE WITH THE CONCERNS OF AN OFFENDER, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO MADE THE CHOICE.

WE KNOW THAT THE AVERAGE DRUNK DRIVER HAS DRIVEN DRUNK APPROXIMATELY 80 TIMES BEFORE THEY'RE CAUGHT THE FIRST TIME.

THE FIRST OFFENSE IS VERY RARELY THE FIRST TIME SOMEONE HAS MADE THIS CHOICE.

THEY KNOW THE CONSEQUENCES.

IT'S NOT A SECRET THAT YOU'LL GET YOUR LICENSE SUSPENDED OR POTENTIALLY GO TO THE JAIL.

THEY MAKE THE CHOICE ANYWAY.

SO I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THAT ASPECT.

I SYMPATHIZE WITH PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE WITH THEIR FAMILIES.

SO DO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE KILLED AND INJURED.

WE WANT TO BE WITH OUR FAMILIES.

WE WANT TO BE IN ONE PIECE.

WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF SOMEONE ELSE'S CHOICE.

>> Olena: SERGEANT, WHAT KIND OF ADVICE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR FOLKS WHO MAYBE BUZZED OR PLANNING ON DRINKING?

>> IF YOU PLAN ON DRINKING, AND THAT'S YOUR SOLE WAY TO HAVE FUN, WE SAY GO HAVE YOUR FUN, BUT MAKE A PLAN FOR AFTER.

DON'T DRIVE IMPAIRED.

IF YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE IMPAIRED OR YOU'RE BUZZED, DON'T GET BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR.

USE THOSE RIDESHARE PROGRAMS, CALL A FRIEND.

LET SOMEONE KNOW YOU NEED HELP.

>> Olena: THANK YOU.

>> AND THANK YOU, SERGEANT, FOR EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO.

I MARRIED A POLICE OFFICER.

I KNOW YOUR JOB IS VERY HARD, BUT PLEASE KNOW THAT EVERY SINGLE MOMENT A DRUNK DRIVER SPINS OFF THE ROAD BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTION IS A MOMENT THAT COULD HAVE SAVED SOMEONE'S LIFE OR PREVENT SOMEONE FROM LIVING THE WAY I DO.

SO I'M THANKFUL FOR EVERYTHING YOU DO.

I ALSO WANT TO ADD THE INDUSTRY SUPPORTS MADD.

SUPPORT IT AT OUR LEGISLATION WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY AND WANTS TO BE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY.

>> Olena: THANK YOU SO MUCH, ALEX.

WE APPRECIATE YOU AND EVERYBODY FOR JOINING YOU THIS EVENING.

AND ALSO THANK YOU TO OUR VIEWERS FOR CONTRIBUTING TO THE CONVERSATION.

SO THANK OUR GUESTS - FROM THE HONOLULU POLICE DEPARTMENT TRAFFIC DIVISION, SERGEANT THOMAS BILLINS, ATTORNEY WITH THE STATE PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE SARA HALEY, AND STAYING UP LATE WITH US TONIGHT IN KENTUCKY, ALEX OTTE FROM MOTHER'S AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING AND RICHARD BERMAN FROM THE AMERICAN BEVERAGE INSTITUTE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, AXIS DEER POPULATIONS ON MAUI AND MOLOKA'I ARE OUT OF CONTROL.

THE INVASIVE ANIMALS ARE DAMAGING RANCHES, RUINING CROPS AND DESTROYING WATERSHEDS.

SO, WHAT CAN BE DONE TO TAME THIS PROBLEM?

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I'M OLENA HEU FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I.

ALOHA AND A HUI HOU.