YEAR AFTER YEAR POLITICS PROMISE TO ATTACK MANY AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS.

BUT IS ANYTHING REALLY CHANGE?

THIS YEAR, LAWMAKERS ARE CONSIDERING SEVERAL BILLS TO TRY AND ADDRESS THE CHRONIC SHORTAGE OF HOMES THROUGHOUT HAWAII, WHAT ARE THESE BILLS AND WILL THEY ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR LOCALS TRYING TO FIND A HOME IN HAWAII?

JOIN US CONFERRING ABOUT THE STATE HOUSING PROPOSALS NEXT ON INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I'M DARYL HUFF.

FOR HAWAII RESIDENTS, THE HOUSING CRISIS IS NOTHING NEW, AND NEITHER ARE THE PROMISES MADE BY LOCAL LEADERS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

THIS SESSION, THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS LOOKING AT BILLS THAT WILL ALLOW FOR MORE UNITS TO BE BUILT QUICKER WHILE TAKING UP LESS SPACE.

THEY WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR COUNTIES TO GET RID OF RESIDENTIAL VACATION RENTAL AND ARE CONSIDERING OTHER IDEAS AS WELL.

WHAT DO THESE PROPOSALS ENTAIL?

WILL THEY FINALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PROVIDING AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR THE PEOPLE OF HAWAII?

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS, AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK AND YOUTUBE PAGES.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

REPRESENTATIVE LUKE EVSLIN SERVES KAUAI’S DISTRICT 16 IN THE STATE HOUSE.

HE WAS APPOINTED BY GOVERNOR GREEN IN 2023.

PRIOR TO SERVING IN THE LEGISLATURE, HE SERVED ON THE KAUAI COUNTY COUNCIL FOR FOUR YEARS.

HE IS THE CHAIR OF THE HOUSING COMMITTEE.

STERLING HIGA IS A NONPROFIT LEADER, TEACHER, AND WRITER.

HE SERVES AS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF HOUSING HAWAII'S FUTURE, A MOVEMENT LED BY YOUNG LOCALS LOOKING TO CREATE OPPORTUNITIES FOR HAWAII’S NEXT GENERATION BY ADDESSING THE WORKFORCE HOUSING SHORTAGE.

TINA GRANDINETTI IS A KAPAHULU RESIDENT AND AN ASSOCIATE ON THE HOUSING AND LAND JUSTICE TEAM AT POLICYLINK, A NATIONAL RESEARCH AND ACTION INSTITUTE DEDICATED TO ADVANCING ECONOMIC EQUITY.

SHE HAS A PH.D.

IN URBAN PETER SAVIO IS THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE SAVIO GROUP OF COMPANIES WHICH HE FOUNDED IN 1980.

HE WAS BORN IN HILO AND GRADUATED FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII AT MANOA.

HE HAS MORE THAN 40 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT AND SALES IN THE HAWAII MARKET.

LET'S START AFTER YOU PUT STERLING IN THE HOT SEAT FIRST, WHAT THE FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH TO START MOVING THE HOUSING NEEDLE?

>> I WOULD START WITH ACKNOWLEDGING THE INCREASE IN DEMAND SINCE STATEHOOD.

LAST 65 YEARS, WE'VE MOVE THAN DOUBLED OUR POPULATION.

MAUI, NEARLY QUADRUPLED IT, HAWAII ISLAND TRIPLED POPULATION.

KAUAI AND OAHU DOUBLED THEIR POPULATION >> AND AT THE SAME TIME, FOR THE FIRST 30 YEARS AFTER STATE HOOD, WE BUILT QUITE A DEAL OF HOUSING.

BETWEEN 1960 AND 1990 MASSIVE CONSTRUCTION.

OLDER PEOPLE THEIR EXPERIENCE OF HAWAII IS COLORED BY THIS RAPID DEVELOPMENT.

BUT SINCE 1990, WE HAVE NOT BUILT AS MUCH HOUSING AS WE BUILT IN THE 30 YEARS PRIOR.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, HOUSEHOLD SIZES HAVE SHRUNK.

GO BACK TO 1950 AVERAGE HOUSEHOLD SIZE WAS FOUR.

TODAY AVERAGE SIZE IS AROUND 3.

SLIGHTLY LESS THAN 3.

SAME POPULATION THAT WE HAD IN 1950, WE DON'T, YOU WOULD NEED 33% MORE HOUSING.

>>Daryl: I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BECAUSE HOUSEHOLD SIZE IS SMALLER, YOU NEED MORE HOUSES >> EXACTLY.

I THINK BASIC LEVEL, MANY OTHER ISSUES THAT WE'LL TOUCH ON TONIGHT, WE HAVE A DEMAND INCREASE BECAUSE OF GROWING POPULATION BUT ALSO, FOREIGN DEMAND FOR SHORT‑TERM RENTALS, INVESTMENT PROPERTIES AND WE HAVE SHORTAGE OF SUPPLY BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BUILT ENOUGH SUPPLY TO KEEP UP WITH THAT DEMAND.

TINA GRANDINETTI WHAT DO YOU SEE FUNDAMENTAL, I THINK WE ALL AGREE ON SOME OF THE FUNDAMENTALS >> WHAT WOULD YOU POINT IT TO?

>> FOR ME, MY ANSWER IS GOING TO SOUND PRETTY SIMILAR TO STERLING'S.

I THINK WE HAVE A SUPPLY AND DEMAND CONVERSATION.

AND I THINK THAT IS ACTUALLY PROBLEM THAT SO MUCH OF OUR HOUSING POLICY DECISIONS ARE BEING DECIDED AROUND KIND OF SIMPLISTIC ECONOMIC THEORIES OF SIMPLIFY AND DEMAND.

THESE THEORIES HOLD IF YOU HAVE AN INCREASE IN DEMAND, INCREASE IN SUPPLY TO MEET IT.

ONCE YOU MEET DEMAND, PRICES WILL KIND OF FIND AN EQUILIBRIUM.

THEORIES REQUIRE DEMAND TO LEVEL OFF.

IN HAWAII WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE WE HAVE DECADES OF HOUSING AND LAND POLICY THAT HAS MADE HAWAII A HUB FOR GLOBAL REAL ESTATE MARKET BUILT ON SPECULATION.

OFF OF THE BACKS OF HAWAII'S PEOPLE AND LANDS >>Daryl: YOU JUST WROTE THE SCRIPT FOR SAVIO'S POSITION >> OUTSIDE DEMAND.

IS THAT WHAT YOU CONSIDER TO BE BIGGEST?

>> WE'RE LOOKING AT THE SOLUTION IN TERMS OF SUPPLY.

BUILD MORE, SOLVE THE PROBABLY EMWILL.

WORST THING QUESTION DO IS BUILD MORE HOUSING ONLY BUILD WE HAVE THE MECHANISM IN PLACE TO CONTROL THE VALUE >> SO POPULAR, INTERNATIONAL MARKET.

SO OUR LOCAL BUYERS ARE COMPETING WITH RETIREES FROM THE MAINLAND, RETIREES FROM JAPAN, WEALTHY INVESTORS FROM AROUND THE WORLD, WE CAN'T COMPETE.

THE FOREIGN BUYERS DRIVEN OUR PRICES UP BY 7 TO $800,000.

COMPARED TO WHERE THE MARKET SHOULD BE.

NO WAY LOCAL BUYERS CAN HANDLE THAT UNLESS WE CAN CONTROL PRICING, DEVELOP RULES AND REGULATIONS DEVELOP LOCAL MARKET WHERE THE PRICES WILL BE TIED TO LOCAL WAGES AND AFFORDABLE >>Daryl: HOUSING CHAIR, YOU WERE THE MIDDLE OF THIS ISSUE JUST ABSORBING IT, FROM WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED NOW AT THE HOUSE, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS BEING FIRST THING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED >> I WOULDN'T DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID SO FAR >> I DO THINK THE HEART OF IT, WE DO NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE A SUPPLY PROBLEM IN A NUMBER OF WAYS.

AS STERLING SAID, BUILDING FAR, FAR, FAR LESS HOUSING THAN WE EVER DID BEFORE.

ISLANDS OF KAUAI AND MAUI WERE LOSING HOUSING STOCK ON ANNUAL BASIS.

PREFIRE.

BUILDING SO FEW HOMES ON THOSE ISLANDS, MORE HOMES ANNUAL BASIS TURNING VACANT OR SHORT‑TERM RENTALS >> LITERALLY DECLINING HOUSING STOCK ON THOSE ISLANDS WITH RELATIVELY MILD POPULATION GROWING.

BUT THAT IS STILL RECIPE FOR JUST RAPIDLY SKYROCKETING, HOUSES COSTS SKYROCKETING, RAPID SLOWDOWN IN CONSTRUCTION POST TO 2008 AND SUPPLY PROBLEM DUE TO VACATION RENTALS AND VACANCY.

I THINK SOLUTIONS HAVE TO BE ALL FRONT.

HOW WE GET MORE LOCAL RESIDENT EXISTING HOUSING STOCK AND ENSURE WE ARE BUILDING ENOUGH HOUSING FOR OUR LOCAL GRADUATES >>Daryl: ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE SEEN YOU PRESENT ON IS YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND PEOPLE, EXPERIENCE OF FOLKS IN YOUR GENERATION.

WHAT IS IT LIKE?

I HAVE A SON 28 YEARS OLD.

HOPING TO BUY A PLACE.

PONDERING WONDERING ABOUT IT.

WHAT'S IT LIKE TO BE 32 YEARS OLD AND TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT?

>> ON MAUI, MY WIFE AND I HAVE FOUR CHILDREN.

WE RENT RIGHT NOW.

A 2 BEDROOM THOUSAND SQUARE FOOT HOUSE $3,900 A MONTH.

WHICH YEAH, >>Daryl: HOW DO YOU DO THAT >> ABSURD PRICE.

CRAZIER THAN THAT, IF WE WERE TO ATTEMPT THE PURCHASE WE OWN, MORTGAGE PAYMENT WOULD BE AROUND $6,000.

WHICH IS JUST NOT REALISTIC FOR THE AVERAGE WORKING FAMILY.

NOW, I CONTRAST WITH MY GRANDFATHER, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A CARPENTER.

WIFE STAYED AT HOME WITH THE KIDS.

FIVE KIDS.

BUT HE WAS ABLE TO PURCHASE LAND BUILD A HOME AND RAISE FIVE CHILDREN ON A SINGLE INCOME THROUGHOUT THE SIXTIES, 70s.

>>Daryl: WHERE WAS THAT?

>> IN AIEA, PURCHASED A HOME.

THEY STARTED A FAMILY IN HILO.

THAT POSSIBILITY TODAY, I MET WITH A GROUP OF PEOPLE WORKING IN THE TRADES TODAY, DO YOU THINK ANY OF YOU ON A SINGLE TRADE INCOME COULD RAISE FIVE CHILDREN AND PURCHASE A HOME?

YOU JUST HEAR LAUGHTER.

I THINK THAT BASIC DISCONNECT RESONATES WITH A LOT OF YOUNGER PEOPLE WHERE OLDER PEOPLE WILL SAY, YOU SPEND TOO MUCH ON LATTES OR IRRESPONSIBLE WITH MONEY.

RATIO OF WAGES TO HOUSING PRICES IS JUST DIFFERENT NOW THAN IT WAS IN 1950.

>>Daryl: HEAR YOUR PERSONAL STORY?

>> YEAH.

SO I'M 34.

I EMPATHIZE A LOT WITH YOUR STORY BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE TO START A FAMILY.

I'M A WORKING PROFESSIONAL AND LITERALLY FEELS IMPOSSIBLE IN HONOLULU.

I ALSO I THINK BEYOND MY OWN EXPERIENCE, WITH HOUSING, I WORKED WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EVEN, WHO HAVE IT WORSE THAN I DO.

I WANT TO BRING IN THE STORY OF TENANTS KAPIOLANI VILLAGES.

I WORKED WITH HONOLULU TENANCY HELP KIND OF SUPPORT THEM IN THEIR FIGHT TO STOP THEIR EVICTION FROM THEIR TRULY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THAT WAS TORN DOWN FOR CONDO BUILDING THAT HAD 10% AFFORDABLE UNITS THAT ARE ONLY AFFORDABLE BY TECHNICAL DEFINITION.

NONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EVICTED COULD HAVE HAD ACCESS TO.

>>Daryl: WHAT HAPPENED WITH THEM?

DID THEY, WERE THEY OFFERED ANYTHING IN THE END >> THEY WERE OFFERED LIKE I THINK TWO MONTHS RENT WAVED.

BUT THEY WERE IN UNITS THAT WERE RENTING AT A RATE WHEN THEY MOVED NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND THIS THAT AGAIN.

ALSO A COMMUNITY.

LIVED TOGETHER, SOME OF THEM FOR DECADES, AND THEY ALL SCATTERED.

SO I THINK THAT AS HARD AS IT IS FOR ME, AND AS MUCH AS I DO WANT ACCESS TO HOUSING, I AM REALLY SENSITIVE TO PEOPLE WHO ARE DISPLACED IN THE PROCESS.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO FIND SOLUTIONS THAT ACCOUNT FOR THOSE STORIES TOO >>Daryl: LET'S START WITH THE QUESTION ABOUT BUILDING MORE.

ONE OF THE FIRST CALLERS WE HAVE.

MIKE IN MAKIKI.

I KNOW PETER, I KNOW YOU PROPOSED URBANIZED CONDO DEVELOPMENT.

IS THE CITY COUNCIL THINKING ABOUT THESE TYPES OF PRODUCTS, PROJECTS, THERE WILL BE RESISTANCE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HOW DO WE MOVE WITH GROWING THE HOUSING STOCK?

>> I THINK KEY IS WE CAN BUILD HOMES.

WE CAN BUILD APARTMENTS.

THAT'S NOT OUR PROBLEM.

OUR PROBLEM IS HOW DO WE KEEP THEM AFFORDABLE?

AND EVEN NOW LIKE YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, KAPIOLANI PARK, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, NOBODY BOUGHT THE AFFORDABLE UNITS.

THE DEVELOPER WENT BACK TO THE CITY, NEED MORE SUBSIDIES TO MAKE IT WORK.

OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS NOT AFFORDABLE.

WHEN YOU TELL ME IT'S $600,000 UNIT, $500,000 OR $250,000 STUDIO, NOT AFFORDABLE.

I THINK THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

WE'RE ALL HUNG UP ON WE NEED TO BUILD.

NO.

WE NEED TO SOMEHOW CONTROL THE APPRECIATION.

MAKE IT AFFORDABLE RENTAL AND KEEP IT AFFORDABLE.

PUT UNITS INTO THIS MARKET OR INTO THIS STOCK OF AFFORDABLE UNITS, THEY WILL STAY AFFORDABLE.

WE HAVE PRESALE, NO SALE REQUIREMENTS OF 3 YEARS, FIVE YEARS.

30 YEARS.

NOW THEY'RE TALK 60 YEARS.

IF THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO SUBSIDIZE HOUSING AND TAXPAYORS ARE GOING TO SUBSIDIZE, SHOULD BE AFFORDABLE FOREVER.

>>Daryl: FROM THE STATE HOUSE, IN THE IDEA OF BUILDING MORE, YOU FOLKS WERE MOVING ALONG BILLS THAT WERE INCREASE DENSITY IN MANY AREAS.

WIDESPREAD AND THAT ENDED UP RUNNING INTO A LOT OF OPPOSITION PARTICULARLY FROM THE COUNTY.

THERE'S OTHER IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN COMING OUT OF THE VOLUNTARY FOR LEGISLATURE FOR A LONG TIME.

WHAT HAS BEEN DONE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS TO GET MORE HOUSING BUILT?

I KNOW THAT THERE'S BEEN AN ADDITION TO INFRASTRUCTURE FUNDS, ADDITIONAL PUBLIC HOUSING PROJECTS AND SO ON.

ARE WE MAKING PROGRESS AT THE STATE LEVEL TO BUILDING HOMES AN PUTTING THEM IN THE AFFORDABLE RANGE?

>> I THINK TRADITIONAL FOCUS OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE ALMOST MAYBE SINCE 1961 >> STATE LEGISLATURE FIRST DEVELOPED STATE LAND USE LAW, JUST BEEN FOCUSED FINANCING METHODS FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

FUNDING RENTAL HOUSING RESOLVING FUND OR HELPING FUND HOUSING AUTHORITY BEEN REALLY FOCUSED ON THOSE FORMS OF SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, WHICH ALL MEANS I'VE SPENT MY ENTIRE POLITICAL CAREER BOTH IN THE KAUAI COUNTY COUNCIL AND NOW STATE LEGISLATURE ADVOCATING FOR MORE FUNDING FOR SUBSIDIZED HOUSING.

MY ARGUMENT GOING FORWARD CAN'T BEING THE ONLY SOLUTION.

WE SHOULD CERTAINLY BE PUTTING A WHOLE LOT MORE MONEY INTO FINANCING METHODS AND TRULY SUBSIDIZED HOUSING FOR PERMANENT AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

CAN'T BE THE ONLY SOLUTION.

>>Daryl: IS THERE A BIG NEED FOR TRADITIONAL PUBLIC HOUSING?

SEEMS LIKE WE'RE WAY BEHIND IN THAT.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S PRETTY IRREFUTABLE, FAMILIES THAT ARE MAKING UNDER 100% AMI.

BY DEFINITION, HALF FAMILIES IN HAWAII, ARE GOING TO HAVE A REALLY HARD TIME AFFORDING HOUSING ESPECIALLY THOSE IN 80% AND BELOW.

ARE GOING TO RELY ON EITHER INCOME ASSISTANCE, HOUSING VOUCHERS OR SUBSIDIZED HOUSING >>Daryl: GOOD JOB GETTING THAT IN THE PIPELINE.

>> NO.

I MEAN, I THINK WE CAN CERTAINLY BE DOING BETTER JOB.

USED TO BE A LOT MORE FEDERAL MONEY COMING FOR SUBSIDIZED HOUSING THAN CURRENTLY.

I THINK AS THOSE SOURCES OF MONEY DRY UP, I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK OUR STATE AND LOCAL SOURCES HAVE RAMPED UP ACCORDINGLY.

THOSE ON LOWER END OF THE ECONOMIC SPECTRUM NEED MORE HELP FROM GOVERNMENT >>Daryl: YOU KEEP TRACK OF THAT DATA, HOW ARE WE ON THAT ISSUE BUILDING HOUSING SPECIFICALLY FOR PEOPLE UNDER CERTAIN INCOMES >> FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE WE RUN INTO EVERY YEAR WITH HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED HOUSING IS THERE'S ONLY A CERTAINLY AMOUNT OF FEDERAL TAX CREDIT STATES ARE ELIGIBLE FOR.

TALK ABOUT AMI.

ASSUME SOMEBODY VERY LOW INCOME, DISABLED, SOCIAL SECURITY, FIXED INCOME.

MINIMUM WAGE JOB.

SOMEBODY NEEDS SUBSIDIZED HOUSING >> PUBLIC HOUSING HEAVILY, KINDS OF SUBSIDIZED PROGRAM RELY ON FEDERAL FUNDING POOL CAPS OUT EVERY YEAR OF NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO CREATE MUCH MORE THAN THAT AMOUNT EVERY YEAR.

I THINK IMPORTANT HOUSING THAT YOU CAN MAKE DOES NOT REQUIRE AS MUCH IN THE WAY OF STATE OR FEDERAL SUBSIDY.

AND A LOT OF OUR HOUSING PRODUCTION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THAT IS POSSIBLE TO BUILD.

AND ONE OF THE PROBLEMS RIGHT NOW IS >>Daryl: STOP FOR A SECOND >> DESCRIBE THAT FOR ME.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN >> WE CALL IT MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING OR MIDDLE INCOME HOUSE.

THIS IS THE HOUSING THAT WOULD BE AFFORDABLE TO A POLICE OFFICER, OR A FIREFIGHTER OR NURSE, SOMEBODY WHO HAS >>Daryl: CALL IT WORKFORCE HOUSING >> WORKFORCE HOUSING.

DECENT PAYING JOB, MIDDLE CLASS >>Daryl: REQUIRE TWO INCOMES?

TALKING $140,000?

$150,000 >> IN HAWAII TALKING ABOUT TWO INCOMES MOST OF THE TIME WE HAVE REAL DEFICIT IN BUILDING HOUSING THAT'S AFFORDABLE FOR THOSE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE.

ONE.

PROBLEMS HOUSING OFTENTIME IS ILLEGAL TO BUILD.

DON'T ALLOW THE KIND OF HOUSING TYPE THAT IS WOULD BE AFFORDABLE TO THESE FAMILIES.

LIKE DUPLEXES, TRIPLEXES, ROW HOUSES, KIDS OF DIFFERENT HOUSES YOU CAN SEE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES, ACROSS EUROPE, ACROSS ASIA.

WE DON'T BUILD HERE BECAUSE OF REGULATION, BUILD A LOT OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES ONE SIDE AND HIGHRISE CONDOS OTHER SIDE.

>> PART OF IT TALK ABOUT BUILDING AND WE HAVE TO HAVE RENTAL HOUSING AND CAN PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO BUY.

REALITY IS RENTAL HOUSING IS NOT GOOD FOR HAWAII.

BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE REALLY DOING IS GIVING AWAY ALL OF OUR TAX DOLLARS BENEFITS TO SOME MAINLAND OWNER OR SOME WEALTHY LOCAL OWNER OF THE BUILDING COULD STRUCTURE A PROGRAM WHERE THAT VALUE STAYED WITH OUR TENANT, WE WOULD BE LIFTING OUR TENANTS UP AND WE WOULD BE PUTTING THEM INTO POSITION OVER PERIOD OF TIME, WOULD BE ABLE TO BUY SOMETHING I DO A LOT OF MY PROJECTS WHERE I GO AS LOW AS 20, 30% OF MEDIAN INCOME GET PEOPLE TO BUY.

I DO CONDO CONVERSIONS TAKING OLDER BUILDINGS, SELLING THEM LOWEST POSSIBLE PRICE, THE KEY IS WE ALL CONCENTRATE ON THE RENTAL SIDE BECAUSE IT SOLVES A NEED BUT WE NEED TO CHANGE OUR CONCEPT WHERE IT'S RENTAL, BUT OWNED BY THE TENANTS OR OWNED BY LOCAL TRUST.

SO ALL THE VALUE STAYS WITH OUR PEOPLE.

>>Daryl: IS THAT A THING OR IS THAT JUST A PRIVATE INDUSTRY KIND OF ADAPTION TO THE EXISTING OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU FOLKS COULD IMPOSE OR ENCOURAGE?

>> CERTAINLY COMMUNITY LAND TRUSTS ARE A THING.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO SUPPORT MORE FORM OF COMMUNITY LAND TRUST.

>>Daryl: WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT?

>> I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

CAN YOU HAVE SORT OF JOINT OWNERSHIP AND JOINT EQUITY THROUGH THESE TYPE OF JOINT OWNERSHIP >> GOING BACK TO WHAT STERLING HAD SAID ABOUT OUR LACK OF MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING.

I THINK THAT IS AT THE HEART OF THE ARGUMENT FOR COMPREHENSIVE STATE WIDE ZONING REFORM.

AND GOING BACK TO WHY WE DON'T HAVE THIS MISSING MIDDLE HOUSE, A LOT OF WAYS IS BY DESIGN, AND I KNOW THAT ZONING, START TALKING ABOUT ZONING, EVERYBODY KIND OF TUNES OUT AND IT IS REALLY COMPLICATED, THE HEART OF THE THE PROBLEM WE FACE NOW, COMPLICATED.

I WAS A TEACHER, HAVE THIS HABIT OF LECTURING SOMETIMES >>Daryl: WHAT YOU'RE GETTING IS WHAT STERLING IS SAYING WE DON'T LET PEOPLE BE CREATIVE IN THEIR OWN SPACES ABOUT HOUSING.

WE CALL EVERYTHING MONSTER HOME.

AND I KNOW THERE'S DEVELOPMENTS.

DUPLEX DEVELOPMENTS.

>> AGAIN, EXAMPLE I'M GOING TO USE IS WE RECENTLY TALKED ABOUT SMALL HOMES AND SMALL LOTS.

HOW IT'S GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE.

THEN THE PICTURE IN THE PAPER OF THE DEVELOPER JUST BUILT THE SMALL HOME ON THE SMALL LOT, PRICED IT AT 975.

THAT'S NOT AFFORDABLE.

THE PROBLEM INTO HAWAII IS WE CAN BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

BUT WE HAVE NO MECHANISM TO KEEP IT AFFORDABLE.

AND BECAUSE WE HAVE ALLOWED OUR MARKET TO RUN AWAY, ALLOWED MAINLAND BUYERS TO INFLUENCE OUR VALUES, TO SUCH A HIGH LEVEL, IT'S MAKES IT REALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR US.

A LOT OF THE DECISIONS YOU MAKE SINCE YOU INCREASE DENSITY, YOU INCREASE VALUE.

THE STATE WANTS TO ADD THESE SMALL HOMES OR ADUs TO EVERY LOT.

GOING TO INCREASE THE VALUE OF THE LOT 100 TO $200,000.

SO CONVERTING FROM SINGLE FACT THAT THEY ARE ANNOUNCED IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S GOING TO PASS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THE VALUES WILL IMMEDIATELY GO UP IN ANTICIPATION.

SO WE'RE GOING TO MAKE HOUSING AFFORDABLE.

BY MAKING IT MORE EXPENSIVE.

DOESN'T WORK.

>> SO YOU MENTIONED THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BE CREATIVE.

ABOUT HOW WE BUILD HOUSING.

AND I THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE OF LOCAL ‑‑ WE ALLOW DEVELOPERS AND OUTSIDE INVESTORS BE VERY CREATIVE >> MENTALITY WE CAN BUILT OUR WAY OUT, FACILITATE NEW DEVELOPMENT AT ANY PRICE POINT SO THAT IT ALLEVIATES PRESSURE FROM THE LOWER PRICE POINT.

THAT UNLEASHES MARKET ON OUR NEIGHBORHOODS THAT IS COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED FROM OUR LIVED ECONOMIC REALITY.

EVERY DAY REALITIES.

I THINK, I ENJOY BENEFITS OF DENSE LIVING IN KAPAHULU.

I LOVE LIVING IN A DENSE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT WHEN YOU UNLEASH A MARKET LIKE THAT, YOU OPEN UP TO PEOPLE WHO ARE SPECULATING, I THINK THE IDEA OF EMPOWERING LOCAL PEOPLE TO LEAD DENSIFICATION, MIGHT OPEN UP THIS CONVERSATION IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

SO LIKE WE HAVE 100,000 UNITS ON OAHU THAT ARE ELIGIBLE FOR ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

SINCE 2015.

ONLY 1100 HAVE BEEN BUILT.

INSTEAD LOOKING AT REGULATION AS PROBLEM, WHAT IF WE INSTEAD THOUGHT WHAT DO LOCAL PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO BUILD ADUs?

SHIFTED CONVERSATION TRICKLE‑DOWN APPROACH, RELEASE ON FILTERING HOUSING DOWN GROWER LEVEL.

ASK LOCAL PEOPLE HOW CAN WE EMPOWER YOU TO CHANGE NEIGHBORHOODS WAY THAT SERVES YOUR NEED >>Daryl: QUESTIONS IT FLOWING IN >> CAN YOU RESPOND?

I THINK ONE, OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY, THAT SUPPLY OF HOUSING DOES IMPACT PRICE OF HOUSING.

AND EVIDENCE FROM PLACES WITH LOTS OF HIGHER, POPULATION GROWTH, THAN HAWAII HAS, THAT THESE PLACES ARE ABLE TO PRODUCE HOUSING AT THE RATE POPULATION GROWTH AND HOUSING PRICES CAN STAY STABLE OVER TIME.

EXAMPLE IN HAWAII IN THE SIXTIES, 70s AND 80s, FIVE AND 6% POPULATION GROWTHS.

HOUSING PRICES WERE RELATIVELY STABLE.

AND THE PRIMARY SOURCE OF MARKET PRICE AFFORDABILITY IN THE COUNTRY IS THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF FILTERING WHICH TINA MENTIONED.

WHICH MEANS BUILD A NEW HOUSE, SOMEBODY MOVE INTO THAT NEW HOUSE, MOVING OUT OF NEW HOUSE.

YOU HAVE A HOUSE FILTERS INTO THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING MARKET.

THERE IS OLDER FIXER UPPER HOME.

SAME WAY MARKETS FOR EVERYTHING.

NEVER BOUGHT A NEW CAR IN MY LIFE, OLD CARS DEPRECIATE IN VALUE OVER TIME.

NEVER BOUGHT A NEW CAR, ONLY DIDN'T HAPPEN DURING THE PANDEMIC, NO MORE NEW CARS COMING INTO THE MARKET, OLD CARS RAPIDLY APPRECIATED >>Daryl: MODEL EVERYWHERE WHERE BUT HAWAII.

UNIQUE MARKET I LIVE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD MINE URBAN SEARCH AINA HAINA, CLOSE FRIENDS AINA HAINA, A HOUSE $2 MILLION.

HOUSE IS MILLION NINE.

GREAT HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF VALUE.

PEOPLE BUY MY HOUSE, TEAR IT DOWN.

BUILD ANOTHER HOME.

$4 MILLION NEIGHBORHOOD.

HAWAII INTERNATIONAL MARKET OUR LEGISLATURE REFUSES TO ACCEPT WE ARE NOT A LOCAL MARKET, WHAT YOU DESCRIBED TO LOCAL MARKET WILL WORK INTERNATIONAL MARKET ONCE YOU TO GET INTERNATIONAL MARKET, WE HAVE TO COMPETE WITH OFF ISLAND MAINLAND BUYERS.

WE CANNOT.

WE CANNOT.

JUST LOOK AT OUR PRICING.

OUR PRICING IS TIED TO WHAT MAINLAND PEOPLE CAN AFFORD, MILLIONAIRES CAN AFFORD.

IT'S NOT TIED TO WAGES DEFINITION I'M GOING INTERRUPT YOU.

WE COUPLE OF QUESTIONS I WANT TO RESPECT OUR AUDIENCE WITH THEIR CALLS.

ON THIS POINT, OF PEOPLE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOU COULD ACTUALLY DO THAT, I KNOW THAT YOU'VE GOT SOME PRETTY COMPLEX EXPLANATIONS FOR THAT.

THAT FRANKLY, GO OVER MY HEAD.

FREQUENTLY.

SOME OF OF MORE BASIC SOLUTION.

HAVE YOU HAD SHOULD BE RESIDENTIAL REQUIREMENT OVER CERTAIN NUMBER OF YEARS AGO TO QUALIFY TO BUY A HOUSE IN HAWAII.

LOCAL RESIDENTS CANNOT BE COMPETE BUYERS OUT OF STATE.

PETER TALKED ABOUT HOW PURCHASE OUT OF STATE COUNTRY ELEVATED COST OF HOUSE.

WHY ARE WE STILL ALLOWING PEOPLE OUT OF COUNTRY TO MAKE PURCHASES, EXTRA LOCAL TAXES ON THEM TO AFFORD IT.

STERLING, ARE THERE POSSIBILITIES HERE YOU'RE AWARE OF?

>> TRY THE MIDDLE PATH BETWEEN THE THREE PEOPLE AT THIS TABLE.

I THINK EVERYONE IS CORRECT.

ESSENTIALLY, YOU HAVE INTERNATIONAL MARKET PETER IS ALLUDING TO.

WE NEED TO HAVE LOCAL ONLY HOUSE MARKET INSULATED FROM SPECULATION.

INDEXED TO LOCAL WAGES AND AFFORDABLE FOR OUR WORKFORCE.

VALUABLE THING TO CREATE.

THE PROBLEM IS OFTENTIMES, POLICYMAKERS WILL TRY TO GET THERE WITH POLICIES THAT END UP DESTROYING ALL HOUSING PRODUCTION.

SO ON MAUI, FOR EXAMPLE, POLICY OF INCLUSIONARY ZONING.

ESSENTIALLY, IF A DEVELOPER WANTS TO DEVELOP MARKET PRICED HOUSING HAD BUILD A SET PERCENTAGE AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IS JUST DRY UP THE PRODUCTION OF ALL HOUSING ON MAUI SET RATIO TOO HIGH.

KAUAI SIMILAR EXPERIENCE FOR LUKE AND I COMING FROM NEIGHBOR ISLANDS VERY AWARE POLICYMAKERS SET OUT TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM SOLUTION SOMETIMES DOESN'T WORK.

TINA'S NOTION, I THINK THERE ARE SOLUTIONS THAT COULD WORK.

HERE'S ONE.

PEOPLE STRUGGLE TO FINANCE CONSTRUCTION OF ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS >> JUST TRUE.

IF YOU WANTED TOO HELP PEOPLE TO BUILD ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS WHY NOT PROVIDE EITHER LOW INTEREST LOANS OR SOME SORT OF FORGIVABLE GRANT ON THE CONDITION THAT THEY ACCEPT VOLUNTARY DEED RESTRICTION THAT WOULD EITHER LIMIT IT TO LOCAL WORKFORCE, OR INDEX LOCAL WAGES TO KEEP IT AFFORDABLE IN PERPETUITY.

MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT THE IDEA OF THESE KIND OF DEED RESTRICTIONS.

POLICYMAKERS WHERE I LIVE, SAY WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS DEED RESTRICTION ON PEOPLE.

WHEN YOU FORCE DEED RESTRICTION ON PEOPLE, IT OFTENTIMES RESULTS IN DECREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF SUPPLY BEING CREATED, RESTRICTION ON PEOPLE, I AGREE WITH TINA, SOLUTIONS THAT COULD WORK.

WHAT WE HAVE FIGURED OUT, HOW WE CAN BE CREATIVE AND APPLY THOSE SOLUTIONS TO GET TO THE END?

>> HAVE TO BE DONE IN TANDEM, IN BETWEEN CITIES, PASS UP ZONING MEASURES.

SAME ERA, PASSED LIKE REALLY STRONG TENANT PROTECTION MEASURES.

MINNEAPOLIS PASSED SOURCE OF INCOME DISCRIMINATION.

PASS AMENDMENTS TENANT SCREENING IN ST. PAUL, PASSED COUNTRY'S STRONGEST RENT STABILIZATION ORDINANCE.

SO THEY DIDN'T JUST OPEN THE FLOOD GATES FOR DEVELOPMENT.

THEY PROTECTED THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS FIRST.

AND THEN ALLOWED DEVELOPMENT.

I THINK THAT WOULD REALLY CHANGE THE CONVERSATIONS AT THAT WE HAVE AROUND NOT IN MY BACKYARD.

OR YES IN MY BACKYARD.

LOCAL PEOPLE CONCEPT TO DIFFERENT THINGS IF THEY KNEW THAT THEIR FAMILIES WOULD FEEL BENEFITS.

THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO SEE THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS CHANGE >> NOT JUST PHYSICALLY, BUT IN TERMS OF LIKE THEIR COMMUNITY.

>> I HAD A COMMUNITY MEETING IN PALOLO.

GOT AROUND TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING >> THEY SAID, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I SAID, ONE, I CHARGE CHARGE OF YOU ALL 50 TO $100,000 TO GET ENTER PERMISSION TO GET A SECOND PAY TAXPAYOR OR COUNTY, $50,000 OR $100,000, FOR PERMISSION TO BUILD SECOND UNIT, REASON IT WORKS FOR YOU PEOPLE YOU ALL HAVE TWO UNITS, YOU'RE ALL CHEATING.

BUILT TWO‑STORE HOMES >> ILLEGAL KITCHENS.

GET NO VALUE FOR THAT.

YOU CAN'T SELL IT TO YOUR KIDS.

YOU CAN RENT IT.

IF YOU DID THIS, COUNTY DID THIS, YOU NOW COULD DO A CONDO AND HAVE TWO LEGAL UNITS >> COULD SELL TO YOUR KID ASSETS >> I WAS SHOCKED.

ALMOST ALL OF THEM I WOULD DO T BECAUSE NOW, I CAN SELL THE UNIT TO MY SON.

I CAN TEAR IT DOWN AND BUILD TWO HOUSES ON ONE LOT BOTH BE LEGAL.

IF YOU'RE ADUs GIVE THEM AWAY.

ALL DO YOU IS DRIVE THE PRICE UP.

NOW, IF WE DID 50,000 PER HOUSE, 10,000 PEOPLE TOOK IT, YOU HAVE ALL OF THAT MONEY TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU AND I WERE TALKING PREVIOUSLY, TALKED ABOUT YOUR HOUSING SITUATION, TALKED ABOUT OTHER HOUSES PEOPLE HAVE GOT MULTIPLE UNITS WITHIN THE EXISTING HOUSE.

NOT TALKING ABOUT MONSTER HOME.

HOUSE MIGHT HAVE FIVE BEDROOMS AND GOT A WET BAR IN THE BACK PART OF THE HOUSE, IS THAT NOT A KITCHEN BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO KITCHENS IN A HOUSE.

THAT IS KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> TWO‑STORY HOUSE.

EVERY TWO‑STORY HOUSE TENDS TO BE TWO UNITS, ONE UPSTAIRS AND DOWNSTAIRS >>Daryl: IDEA ACTUALLY LEGALIZED MULTIPLE UNITS WITHIN THE HOUSING PLOT, AND THAT COULD BE SOLD, THAT IS KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT >> KEY IS THEY WOULD BE SOLD TO THE CHILDREN, GRANDKIDS.

>> USUALLY WITHIN THE FAMILY.

SO YOU'RE GIVING THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE VALUE BUT YOU'RE NOT GIVING IT WE'RE FREE.

>>Daryl: THIS CONVERSATION GOING ON HALF AN HOUR.

I'M GETTING DEPRESSED.

I DON'T KNOW WE'VE LAID ANYTHING ON THE TABLE THAT THE AVERAGE PERSON COULD WRAP THEIR HANDS AROUND.

I'M GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS FROM PEOPLE,   VERY SPECIFIC THINGS.

>> GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO WHAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED HERE >> THAT WHAT FIRST STEPS WOULD BE FIGURING OUT HOW TO CHANGE MIX WHAT WE HAVE EXISTING ON THE GROUND ALONG WITH BUILDING DENSITY IN OTHER PLACES.

THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING >> MY ARGUMENT I THINK WHERE I DIFFER FROM PETER IS WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY NEED ILLEGAL TO BUILD MULTIFAMILY HOUSING THROUGHOUT A LOT OF THE STATE.

AND THIS IS PUSHING FAMILIES OUT.

HARD TO KEEP FAMILIES MULTIGENERATIONAL HOUSEHOLDS TOGETHER BUILD A LEGAL DWELLING UNIT.

SOMEWHAT UNIQUE, SO MUCH OF OUR RESIDENTIAL LAND IN HAWAII IS ONLY SLATED ESSENTIALLY ARE LARGE LOTS SINGLE‑FAMILY HOMES.

SINGLE FAMILY HOMES MOST OF NEIGHBOR ISLANDS MOST OF OAHU.

AND MY ARGUMENT IS WE SHOULD ESSENTIALLY JUST LEGAL MULTIGENERATIONAL HOUSEHOLD >> CHARGED FAMILIES $50,000 FOR THAT ENTITLEMENT, ONE I'M NOT SURE IF THAT IS LEGAL TO DO AND 2, IT WOULD BE BLOCKING OUT LOCAL FAMILIES WERE BEING ABLE TO DO.

ONLY WEALTHIER PEOPLE COULD DO IT.

OPPOSITE.

>>Daryl: WAIT.

I NEED TO MOVE THIS ALONG.

I THINK QUESTIONS HERE THAT I WANTED TO TRY TO GET ANSWERED.

FASCINATING.

OVER MY HEAD.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE OVER THE VIEWER'S HEAD.

LET'S KIND OF DEAL IT >> DENSITY ISSUE THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THAT'S WHAT I THINK PROMPTED THIS PROGRAM BEGINNING.

PROPOSALS THAT THE COUNTIES ALLOW MORE DENSITY IN THESE RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.

GOT A LOT PUSH BACK.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT NOW?

>> SO THE BILL AS ORIGINALLY ‑‑ WELL, BILL PASSED OUT HOUSE AND BILL THAT PASS OUT OF SENATE BROADLY SIMILAR.

BOTH WOULD HAVE ALLOWED TWO ADUs RESIDENTIAL LOTS.

>>Daryl: REGARDLESS WHAT I WANTED.

>> NUMBER OF ONE UNITS REGARDLESS WHAT THE COUNTY WANTED LEGALIZING MULTIGENERATIONAL HOUSEHOLDS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

COUNTIES COULD STILL IMPOSE WHOLE BUCKET OF ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE UNITS.

THINGS LIKE EVERYTHING REGULATED BUILDING ENVELOPE.

SO HEIGHT RESTRICTIONS.

LOT COVERAGE RESTRICTIONS.

SETBACK RESTRICTIONS.

PARKING RESTRICTIONS.

WOULD ALL BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO BE IMPOSED BY THE COUNTY AS THE THEY ARE.

THAT DEVELOPMENT WOULD ALSO BE CONTINGENT ON INFRASTRUCTURE.

NOBODY CAN GET A PERMIT IF THERE IS INSUFFICIENT WASTEWATER OR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

MOST SMALL LOTS ON KAUAI, MOST PEOPLE MATCHING OUT BUILDING FOOTPRINT.

SINGLE‑FAMILY HOME.

WOULD ALLOW SOMEBODY TO DO IF THEY WANTED TO POSSIBLY TURN THAT SINGLE‑FAMILY HOME INTO MAYBE A DRIVEWAY.

SPLIT IT IN HALF.

TWO KITCHENS.

DO LOCKOUT BEDROOM AS RENTAL FOR YOUR SON TO MOVE HOME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT >> THAT'S IT.

WOULDN'T ALLOW ANY ACTUAL MORE BUILDING FOOTPRINT FOR MOST OF THESE LOTS.

PART OF THE BILL.

IT WOULD ALSO ALLOW MINIMUM LOT SIZES REQUIRE COUNTIES TO ALLOW MINIMUM LOT SIZES DOWN 2,000 SQUARE FEET.

UNIQUELY HIGH MINIMUM LOT SIZES IN HAWAII.

VERY LARGE LOT REQUIRED, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A BIG HOUSE ON THAT LOT.

PRICE OF THAT IS GOING TO BE HIGH.

THIS IS NOT LIKE TRADITIONAL DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS IN HAWAII.

PLANTATION CAMPS, VERY SMALL LOTS.

DOWNTOWNS IN PLANTATION ERA, DOWNTOWN VERY SMALL LOT SIZES.

SO WHEN THE COUNTY ALL ADOPTED ZONING CODES 60 AND 70s, HEY‑DAY OF SUBURBAN LOT SIZE.

REDUCE IMPACT FEES PROHIBITED COVENANTS FROM RESTRICTING LESS THAN THOSE TWO UNITS AND ALLOWED FOR MINISTERIAL SUBDIVISION, ALL AGREE.

WE DISAGREE, WANT TO GIVE BLANKET APPROVAL IMMEDIATELY RAISES THE COST HOUSING.

IF YOU TAKE THE SAME BILL AND SAY REQUIREMENT IS YOU HAVE TO SELL IT AT 80 OR 90 OR 100% OF MEDIAN INCOME, TIE RENT TO 80 TO 90% OF MEDIAN INCOME.

SELL IT, YOU HAVE TO SELL IT AT THOSE PRICE RANGES.

GIVEN BENEFIT BUT YOU'VE TAKEN BACK THE VALUE AND YOU'VE CREATED A UNIT THAT WILL BE AFFORDABLE FOREVER.

AND USING 80% OR 100% MEDIAN, YOU NOW HAVE CREATED A MONTHLY PAYMENT THAT WILL BE AFFORDABLE FOREVER.

SO NOW, IT MAKES SENSE >> BUT TELL ME 80% OF POPULATION SUPPORT THE BILL, THEY'RE SUPPORTING THE BILL BECAUSE THEY THINK WHAT I'M DESCRIBING WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

I CAN NOW BUILD A HOUSE FOR MY SON AND MY DAUGHTER.

THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN UNDER THE BILL THE LEGISLATOR HAS.

THEY'RE GOING TO END UP BUILDING EXPENSIVE UNITS ALL OVER TOWN DRIVING PRICES UP FURTHER.

THERE WILL BE LOCAL PEOPLE DOING IT.

BUT THAT BILL NEEDS TO COME OUT AND SAY, NO.

YOU HAVE TO CONTROL THE VALUE GOING FORWARD.

I'LL SUPPORT IT.

REAL QUICK.

>> QUICK.

THE PROBLEM PUT 80 TO 90% REQUIREMENT.

PROBLEM NO UNITS WOULD GET BUILT.

EVIDENCE HAVE THESE TYPE OF INCOME RESTRICTION IS NOT GETTING BUILT.

CAN'T GET TRY IT.

CAN'T GETTING TO BUILD A UNIT WITH THAT TYPE OF DEED RESTRICTION.

>> TRY IT.

>> IF WE'RE NOT RATING AFFORDABILITY IN THE BILL BECAUSE IT STOPS PEOPLE FROM BUILDING HOUSING MWE'RE ACKOWLEDGING THOSE UNITS AREN'T GOING TO BE AFFORDABLE.

WE'RE RELYING ON THAT IDEA OF FILTERING, WHICH FILTERING IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO TAKES YEARS.

IN THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, RESEARCH SHOWS THAT IT DOESN'T WORK IN PLACES WITH HIGH APPRECIATION.

>>Daryl: WHAT DOES FILTERING MEAN?

>> BUILD UPPER LEVEL HOUSING MARKET AND BY DOING THAT, YOU ALLEVIATE PRESSURE ON THE LOWER LEVELS AND PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THE HOUSING STOCK AGES.

>>Daryl: THAT WORD WAS APPLIED.

STERLING, WEIGH IN.

>> WHERE DO YOU THINK WE ARE WITH THIS DENSITY ISSUE IS, WHERE DO WE PUT DENSITY?

DO WE NEED MORE DENSITY EVERYWHERE OR BE VERY SELECTIVE WHERE WE HAVE DENSITY, >> NEED MORE DENSITY IN MOST PLACES AND, OBVIOUSLY, THIS IS COUNTY SPECIFIC.

HONOLULU, IS FAIRLY DENSE.

AND NEIGHBOR ISLANDS IN GENERAL ARE LESS DENSE.

>> NEIGHBOR ISLANDS COULD STAND FOR MORE DENSITY >> I VIEW DENSITY AS NOT ONLY HOUSING AFFORDABILITY, BUT ALSO TO OUR ECONOMIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL SUSTAINABILITY >> I SAY ECONOMIC FIRST BECAUSE ALL OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS, COST TO LAY SEWER, PROVIDE WATER, TO HAVE ROADS.

THE FURTHER APART WE SPREAD OUR COMMUNITIES, BY HAVING LOW DENSITY SPRAWL, THE MORE EXPENSIVE THOSE THINGS GET AS DECADES PROGRESS AND INFRASTRUCTURE AGES NEEDS TO BE REPLACED.

SO FOR ECONOMIC SUSTAINABILITY, FISCAL SUSTAINABILITY OF OUR COUNTIES DENSITY IS THE WAY TO GO.

ENVIRONMENTAL PERSPECTIVE AS WELL, WE KNOW THAT VEHICLE EMISSIONS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO SOME OF OUR CLIMATE CRISIS.

AND WE ALSO KNOW ON MORE LOCAL LEVEL, IN TERMS OF HEALTH IMPACT, ONE PREDICTER OF HEALTH IS MILES DRIVEN.

>> PEOPLE CAN USE MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION.

SUPPORT PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION WHEN THERE'S DENSITY THERE.

ADOPTED A PATTERN OF URBAN SPRAWL.

NEIGHBOR ISLANDS, HONOLULU TO A LESSER DEGREE THAT HAS THREATENED BOTH ECONOMICAL AND ENVIRONMENTAL DENSITY.

>>Daryl: WE WANT TO REALLY ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

NOW I'VE GOT RAY FROM MOLOKAI.

WHY CAN'T WE TRY YOU CANNOT BUY A HOME UNLESS YOU'RE A LOCAL RESIDENT.

I HAVE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY WE CAN'T JUST STOP PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE FROM BUYING.

I MEAN, I THINK WE'VE HEARD MANY TIMES YOU CAN'T DO THAT FROM OTHER STATES.

BUT I MEAN, WHAT ABOUT FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY >> THINK YOU.

THE KEY IS IF WE DECLARE A HOUSING CRISIS, FOR THE SAFETY OF OUR COMMUNITY, HEALTH OF OUR COMMUNITY, WE ARE GOING TO RESTRICT OUTSIDE BUYERS 2 OR 3 YEARS >> HAVE A CHANCE FOR OUR MARKET TO ADJUST.

THAT'S PROBABLY CONSTITUTION.

LIKE COVID, COULDN'T DO CHURCH, SHOPPING RESTAURANT BEACH.

CONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE OF THE CRISIS.

THIS HOUSING CRISIS IS IS NOT JUST ABOUT, WEALTH AND HOUSING >> IT AFFECTS HEALTH OF OUR PEOPLE.

THE STABILITY OF OUR COMMUNITY.

SO AGAIN, WHEN THE GOVERNOR DECLARES HOUSING EMERGENCY, THE PURPOSE SHOULD BE TO RESTRICT OR SOMEHOW PUT INTO PLACE RULES THAT WILL CONTROL AND HELP US HELP THE LOCAL GUYS CATCH UP OR BE ABLE TO BUY.

>>Daryl: WHAT IS THE SENTIMENT IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR SOMETHING IF NOT LIKE THAT, AT LEAST MORE RESTRICTIONS BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THERE ARE RESTRICTION ON CONDOS LOCAL RESIDENTS >> FIRST TIME BUYER.

THAT SORT OF THING.

SEEMS LIKE YOU CAN DO THAT.

>> SO FOR SUBSIDIZE THE HOUSING COUNTIES AND STATE CAN PUT ON LOTS OF RESTRICTIONS ON THAT.

YOU HAVE TO MAYBE HOW HAWAII RESIDENT GET ON A LIST.

ET CETERA.

COUNTIES ALL TO DO THAT TO SOME EXTENT.

MARKET RATE HOUSING PUT A BLANKET PROHIBITION ON PEOPLE NOT FROM HERE, THAT WOULD NOT SURVIVE CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER.

THING THAT WE DON'T WANT IS FOR THESE UNITS TO BE BOUGHT AND SIT VACANT >> COUNTIES ALL HAVE APPROPRIATE TAX AUTHORITY TO DISCOURAGE THOSE TYPE OF USE >> CAN YOU DO VACANT PROPERTY HOME PROPERTY TAXES >> YOU CAN TAX VACATION RENTALS AT MUCH HIGHER RATE TO DISCOURAGE THOSE USE.

WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO DISCOURAGE USE WE DON'T WANT.

WE DO NEED BACK TO THE MARKET.

TO TRY AND DO IT THROUGH THE ENTITLEMENT PROCESS, I DON'T THINK THAT WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THAT WORKS ANYWHERE TO TRY AND RESTRICT PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED BASED ON WHERE THEY'RE FROM.

IT'S NOT GOING TO SURVIVE MUSTER.

>>Daryl: ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I'M GETTING QUITE A BIT ON IS INFRASTRUCTURE.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU BUILD DENSE NEIGHBORHOODS BEFORE YOU BUILD DE IN.

YOU NEED TO IMPROVE INFRASTRUCTURE.

IS THERE ANY QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO INVEST MORE IN INFRASTRUCTURE >> I THINK A BIG FLAW OF THE BILL IS THAT ALL CONTINGENT ON INFRASTRUCTURE.

INFRASTRUCTURE BY FAR IS A LIMITING FACTOR.

PLAY WITH STATE LAW.

HOUSING CONSTRUCTION.

EASY PART IN A LOT OF WAYS >> REALLY HARD PART IS INFRASTRUCTURE.

HOW DO WE FINANCE AND BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH IS SO CRITICAL >>Daryl: BACK TO WHAT STERLING TALKED ABOUT.

CONDO OR THE HIGH DENSITY VERSUS A LARGE DENSITY.

AGAIN, WE HAVE A MECHANISM TO ENCOURAGE DENSITY BY DOUBLING OR TRIPLING PROPERTY TAXES ON A SINGLE‑FAMILY HOME.

AND REDUCING TAXES ON A CONDO.

BECAUSE THE HOME DOES COST US MORE MONEY >> JUST WITH ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND IF WE DO IT CORRECTLY, IT WON'T RAISE TAXES LOCAL GUY BUT RAISE TAXES ON FOREIGN BUYERS OR MAINLAND BUYERS.

>>Daryl: EXPLAIN THAT TO ME AGAIN.

>> OKAY IF YOU HAVE 30 OR 40% UNITS OWN BID MAINLAND BUYERS.

AND RENTING THEM OUT >>Daryl: CONDO >> CAN BE A CONDO.

JUST ON MARKET IN GENERAL.

THEY'RE NOT PAYING A FAIR SHARE, ONLY PAY PROPERTY TAXES, WE HAVE THE LOWEST TAXES IN THE COUNTRY.

WHAT WE DO IS EQUALIZE THE TAX RESPONSIBILITY AND SAY, OKAY, MAINLAND GUYS, YOU'RE GOING TO PAY 2, 3, 4 TIMES WHAT WE PAY.

AS SOON AS THEY DO THAT, PAYING 80, 90, 100% OF OUR TAXES LOCAL GUY CAN GET HOME EXEMPTION FOR 90 OR 95%.

NOW WE'VE BROUGHT TWO MARKETS TOGETHER.

>>Daryl: OWNER/OCCUPANT EXEMPTION >> LOCAL PROPERTY OWNERS BECAUSE WE PAY ALL OTHER TAXES.

WE HAVE GREATER HOME EXEMPTION.

MAINLAND GUY ONLY PAYS PROPERTY TAXES.

FOREIGNER PAYS PROPERTY TAXES, PAY LARGER PROPERTY TAXES CHARGING HIM HIS FAIR SHARE.

>>Daryl: ONLY ONE QUESTION ABOUT STRs, SOMEONE SAID DON'T SCAPEGOAT THE STRs.

SHORT‑TERM RENTALS.

THESE FOLKS DOMINATING THE CONVERSATION.

THAT'S FINE.

BOTH SMART GUYS.

WHERE DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD BE GOING WITH THE STR VACATION RENTAL ISSUE?

REALLY A SALVATION THERE?

DO YOU GUYS HAVE A SENSE THAT?

>> I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE ADDRESS SHORT‑TERM RENTALS.

THEY TAKE HOUSING OUT OF LOCAL RENTAL MARKET.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY SILVER BULLET TO THE HOUSING CRISIS BUT I WANT TO BRING IN ONE OTHER THING.

I THINK LOCAL PEOPLE KNOW SHORT‑TERM RENTALS ARE BAD FOR OUR NEIGHBORHOODS.

I DON'T KNOW WE HAVE TO DEBATE THAT.

MAYBE WE DO >> I WANT TO BRING IN ONE OTHER ELEMENT WHICH IS PROTECTIONS FOR THE 48% OF HAWAII HOUSEHOLDS RENT.

COMPETING WITH THOSE SHORT‑TERM RENTALS, A LOT MORE WE CAN BE DOING TO PROTECT RENTERS, AND I WOULD CONSIDER THOSE ANTI‑DISPLACEMENT MEASURES.

RENTERS ARE THE ONES WHO ARE MOST HOUSING INSECURE.

CLOSEST AWAY FROM BEING DISPLACED.

WHETHER THAT IS THROUGH THE EVICTION PROCESS LANDLORD NOT RENEWING A LEASE AND GIVING YOU 45 DAYS TO FIND A NEW UNIT, HOUSING MARKET HOUSING PRICES ARE INCREASING EVERY DAY.

I SEE THESE TWO ARE RELATED.

>> NEED NEW ZONING SHORT‑TERMS OR VACATION RENTALS.

ACTUALLY APPROVE SUBDIVISIONS OR BUILDINGS FOR SHORT‑TERM RENTALS AND DEAL IS YOU GUYS GET OUT OF OUR RESIDENTIAL MARKET.

RESIDENTIAL MARKET SHOULD BE RESIDENTIAL OWNER OCCUPANTS ONLY.

APARTMENT MARKET SHOULD BE APARTMENT RESIDENTIAL OWNER OCCUPANT ONLY.

WE NEED TO SET UP A ZONING THAT ALLOWS OUR DISTRICTS WHERE YOU WOULD EXPECT TO FIND VACATION RENTALS.

SAY, OKAY, TAKE KO OLINA.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE 500 ACRES AND BUILD 20,000 VACATION RENTALS FOR YOU GUYS.

SELL THE ONE YOU'VE GOT AND MOVE OVER TO THE NEW ONE.

NOW YOU'RE PUTTING OUR INVENTORY HOUSE STOCK BACK IN PLACE.

>>Daryl: LUKE, WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE DOING ABOUT THE SHORT‑TERM RENTAL?

>> BILL IN THE LEGISLATURE, BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE VERSION, MOVING.

BOTH LOOK LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO GO INTO CONFERENCE, GIVE COUNTIES AUTHORITY TO PHASE OUT SHORT‑TERM RENTALS, PART OF THE PROBLEM IS ONCE SOMEBODY HAD ZONING TO BUILD SHORT‑TERM RENTAL, COUNTIES HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO WALK BACK ZONING STATE LAW.

CAN'T CHANGE ZONING FOR THAT.

>>Daryl: ZONING LAW >> IN THEIR ZONING, CAN'T REMOVE THAT PERSON'S ABILITY TO SHORT‑TERM RENTAL >>Daryl: BUY IT FROM THEM >> GOVERNMENT >> COUNTIES COULD CONDEMN.

VERY EXPENSIVE.

LEGISLATURE REMOVER THEOLOGICAL BARRIER WITHIN STATE LAW.

REMOVING THAT BARRIER, COUNTIES CLEARLY COULD PHASE OUT SHORT‑TERM RENTALS, GET CONSISTENT WITH THE CONSTITUTION >> TIME PERIOD IS REALLY IMPORTANT THERE SO WOULDN'T JUST BE LIKE, NEXT YEAR >> SHORT‑TERM RENTALS ARE GONE.

MULTIYEAR PROCESS TO PHASE SOME OUT IN SOME AREAS.

>>Daryl: HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT SHORT‑TERM RENTALS SOLUTION TO OUR OVERALL HOUSING ISSUE?

>> DEPENDS WHICH ISLAND YOU'RE ON.

>>Daryl: TALK ABOUT OAHU.

MAUI, TALK A LOT ABOUT MAUI.

CONCERN ON MAUI >> I DON'T THINK IT'S THAT SEVERE ON KAUAI.

I THINK LUKE AND I WOULD AGREE THERE.

DONE A GOOD JOB CRACKING DOWN ON OAHU.

I THINK CRACKDOWN HAS BEEN FAIRLY DECENT.

I THINK MAUI IS A PROBLEM.

AND TO PETER'S POINT ABOUT RESORT DISTRICTS, THAT IS PART OF THE BIG PROBLEM OF THE SHORT‑TERM RENTALS ON MAUI.

ESSENTIALLY MANY OF THE HOUSING UNITS IN WEST MAUI ARE USING SHORT‑TERM RENTALS.

AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO WORK THERE ARE FORCED TO COMMUTE IN FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

SIMILAR THING HAS HAPPENED IN SOME PARTS OF BIG ISLAND.

THERE'S A PHENOMENON WHERE PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO COMMUTE TO PLACES WHERE THE RESORT COMMUNITIES ARE, AND YET NO HOMES THAT THEY CAN AFFORD WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY.

REALLY DESTRUCTIVE.

BIG ISLAND PEOPLE ARE COMMUTING TO PUNA, KOHALA COAST.

HOUR‑AND‑A‑HALF EACH WAY IF THE SADDLE ROAD IS OPEN, 2 HOURS EACH WAY IF IT'S NOT.

COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE FOR FAMILIES, NO TIME WITH YOUR KIDS, NO TIME VOLUNTEERING IN THE COMMUNITY, NO TIME TO GET CIVICALLY ENGAGED AND HAWAII COUNTY IS ACTUALLY A PIONEER IN AREA‑BASED WORKFORCE HOUSING.

SO THEY HAVE HOUSING PROJECTS THAT THEY'RE DEVELOPING IN WAIKALOA WHERE IN ORDER TO PURCHASE A HOME IN THE SUBDIVISION, YOU HAVE TO WORK WITHIN 45 MILES OF THE SUBDIVISION AND I'M A BIG PROPONENT OF THIS AS A MODEL.

>>Daryl: HOW DOES THAT ‑‑ EXPLAIN THAT TO ME AGAIN.

I'M A HOME BUYER.

COUNTY HAS DEVELOPED THIS COUNTY‑OWNED LAND.

>>Daryl: COUNTY PROBABLY.

>> CORRECT.

I WANT TO LEASE A UNIT.

I WANT TO LEASE ONE OF THESE HOMES.

I HAVE TO SHOW THEM PROOF THAT I WORK WITHIN 45 MILES FORM OF RESTRICTION OF HOMES THAT I THINK IS SUPER CREATIVE >>Daryl: OAHU, 3 MILES >> WHERE YOU WANT TO BUILD IT.

MAYBE YOU WANT UNIVERSITY HOUSING NEAR THE UNIVERSITY.

MAYBE HOSPITALITY HOUSING NEAR WAIKIKI >> YOU CAN CHOOSE, THIS IS HOUSING FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO WORK IN A DISTRICT.

PANDEMIC, TWO CLASSES OF PEOPLE.

CALL THEM LAPTOP PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH REAL JOBS IN THE REAL WORLD.

LAPTOP CLASS, DON'T HAVE TO COMMUTE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO TO A PLACE EVERY DAY BUT PEOPLE WITH REAL JOBS IN THE REAL WORLD DO.

AND THEY'RE THE ONES THAT SUFFER WITH OUR COMMUNITY, BIFURCATE WHERE PEOPLE WORK AND WHERE THEY LIVE.

SO I REALLY LOVE HAWAII COUNTY IN TERMS OF CREATIVE SOLUTIONS, IS THAT WHAT WE SHOULD LOOKING AT?

WHAT ARE THE PROBLEM?

CREATIVE SOLUTION, HAWAII COUNTY, GREAT JOB THINKING SOME OF THOSE THINGS THROUGH.

>> WE AGREE ON THAT.

IT'S HOW YOU'RE GOING TO IMPLEMENT IT.

>> YEAH.

SORRY.

I GOT EXCITED.

I THINK THAT KIND OF, I LIKE THAT IDEA TOO AND WHAT THAT ILLUSTRATES THAT IT MATTERS WHO BUILDS.

IF THE COUNTY BUILDS, YOU CAN INCLUDE THESE DIFFERENT KINDS OF DEED RESTRICTIONS AND PREFERENCE PROGRAMS.

IF LOCAL PEOPLE BUILD, YOU GET TO MAINTAIN THE CHARACTER OF A PLACE AND STABILITY A COMMUNITY.

IF OUTSIDE DEVELOPERS BUILD, IT HAS DIFFERENT IMPLICATIONS AND LIKE THOSE ARE REALLY SEVERE.

ON OAHU, OUTSIDE BUYER PURCHASES A HOME PAYING 44% MORE THAN A LOCAL BUYER.

ON HAWAII ISLAND, THAT GOES UP TO 88% MORE.

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT, FIRST OF ALL, WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT ANTI‑DISPLACEMENT FIRST, AND THEN ONCE WE GET TO DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHO IS BUILDING AND WHAT THEY'RE BUILDING AND WHO THEY'RE BUILDING FOR.

>>Daryl: VERY INTERESTING IDEA BECAUSE WHAT PETER TALKS ABOUT A LOT IS WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM TO DO THIS.

RIGHT NOW, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, BOTH STATE AND COUNTY ARE IN A LAND‑BUYING BINGE EXACTLY FOR THIS PURPOSE.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO GO?

>> ONE POINT OF CLARIFICATION.

VACATION RENTALS ARE A BIG PROBLEM ON KAUAI.

WE HAVE ONE IN 8 HOMES IS VACATION RENTAL.

WHAT IS NOT A PROBLEM, WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF ILLEGAL ONES.

LEGAL ONES ARE CONSUMING HOUSING STOCK.

LARGELY AGREE WITH WHAT TINA IS SAYING.

>> ALSO AGREE WITH THE IDEA WE NEED BETTER ANTI‑DISPLACEMENT MEASURES.

>> I THINK WE NEED IT ALL AT THE SAME TIME.

COUNTIES SHOULD BE BUYING LOTS OF LAND.

KAUAI GREAT EXAMPLE OF LIMA OLA LOTS OF LEASEHOLD PROPERTIES, COUNTIES BIGGEST DEVELOPER ON KAUAI.

PERMANENTLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR OUR WORKFORCE ON KAUAI.

>> THAT IS GREAT.

>> MY ONLY POINT IS THAT CAN'T BE THE ONLY SOLUTION.

>> DO THAT AS WELL AS ZONING REFORM AND ANTI‑DISPLACEMENT, GET RID OF LOTS OF VACATION RENTALS.

>>Daryl: SOLUTION IS NOT ONE OR TWO THINGS.

>> THE SOLUTION HAS TO BE A COMPLETE PACKAGE ADDRESSING ALL OF THE ISSUES.

TALKED ABOUT FIVE OR SIX.

>> REALLY PROBABLY 20 OR 30 ISSUES.

>> REALLY, IF YOU GOT ALL OF US IN A ROOM, WE'LL FIND A SOLUTION.

WE REALLY DON'T DISAGREE ON THE NEED.

WE DISAGREE ON HOW TO GET TO THE SOLUTION.

MY CONCEPT IS BASED A LOT OF GOVERNMENT‑SPONSORED HOUSING ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE GOVERNMENT CAN PUT IN RESTRICTIONS.

I, AS A PRIVATE DEVELOPER.

CAN'T.

>> SOLUTIONS ARE THERE.

HAVEN'T BEEN WILLING TO DO IT >>Daryl: HUGE PILE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PUSHBACK YOU GET ANY TIME YOU TRY TO DO SOMETHING NEW.

I KNOW THAT WITH THE STR ISSUE, THAT OWNERS WERE SAYING LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR LIVELIHOODS.

AND WITH THE DENSITY ISSUE, IT'S YOU'RE GOING TO TURN NEIGHBORHOODS INTO SLUMS.

>> AND SO STERLING, TINA, WHAT IS THE CONVERSATION THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN THAT GETS US TO SAY THAT THERE ARE, SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT CHANGE IN ORDER TO HAVE THINGS GET BETTER?

>> IF I CAN REFRAME THAT POSITIVELY, THERE IS RESISTANCE CERTAINLY ALTHOUGH I THINK THE PRESENCE OF THIS DISCUSSION AND PEOPLE AT THIS TABLE INDICATES THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY A BROAD AND SPREADING CONSENSUS REPRESENTS SILENT MAJORITY IN HAWAII, CONSENSUS WHO WOULD LOVE TO SEE COMPREHENSIVE HOUSING SOLUTIONS THAT INTEGRATE BUILDING MORE SUPPLY WITH TENANT PROTECTIONS ENSURING THAT HOUSING IS GOING FOR THE PEOPLE WE WANT IT TO GO TO.

LOW INCOME, LOCAL WORKFORCE ACTUALLY IS BROAD POPULAR SUPPORT FOR THIS.

BRENDAN INTRODUCED A MEASURE ABOUT FOREIGN OWNERSHIP.

MEASURE STALLED OUT.

MORE THAN 2,000 PIECES OF SUPPORTIVE TESTIMONY.

ONLY THING RIVALS, ANY TIME YOU KILL FERAL CATS, >>Daryl: AND CHICKEN.

>> THAT'S INDICATIVE OF BROAD CONSENSUS.

WHAT WE'VE NOTICED, PROCEEDINGS OF THIS BILL IS GROUPS THAT ARE LINING UP TO SUPPORT ZONING REFORM, BUT TO THINK ABOUT THESE HOUSING REFORMS SPANS POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

SPAN ALL AGES.

AND THERE'S A GROWING MOVEMENT IN HAWAII WHEN HOUSING HAWAII'S FUTURE FOUNDED 2‑AND‑A‑HALF YEARS AGO, WOULDN'T HAVE SAID THAT CONSENSUS EXISTED.

>>Daryl: ONE QUESTION.

ONLY HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE FOR LUKE.

HOW DOES IT FEEL WHEN YOU THROW SOMETHING OUT THERE AND YOU GET 2,000 PIECES OF NEGATIVE TESTIMONY AND BLOW‑BACK FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES, THIS WON'T WORK IN MY DISTRICT.

HOW DO YOU OVERCOME IT?

>> OVER A COUPLE HUNDRED.

I MEAN I THINK HOUSING IS JUST A REALLY SENSITIVE ISSUE.

>> 500 PIECES OF TESTIMONY FOR AND AGAINST, YOUNG PEOPLE ARE GETTING DISPLACED FROM HAWAII DESPERATE, TO STAY.

PASSION ABOUT THIS.

PEOPLE GREW UP IN COMMUNITIES, DON'T WANT TO SEE THOSE COMMUNITIES CHANGE.

I RECOGNIZE PASSION ALL SIDES OF THIS.

PART OF WHAT MAKES IT.

>>Daryl: GOOD DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU FOLKS AND MAHALO TO YOU AND AT HOME FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

WE THANK OUR GUESTS.

REPRESENTATIVE LUKE EVSLIN, THE STATE HOUSING COMMITTEE CHAIR, TINA GRANDINETTI FROM POLICYLINK, STERLING HIGA OF HOUSING HAWAII’S FUTURE, AND PETER SAVIO, CEO OF THE  SAVIO GROUP OF COMPANIES.

>>DARYL: NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS WE LOOK AT BOTH SIDES IN THE DEBATE OVER TAXPAYER FUNDING OF POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I’M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI`I.

ALOHA!