>> TOURISM IS HAWAI'I'S TOP MONEY-MAKER.

AND FOR 25 YEARS, THE HAWAII TOURISM AUTHORITY HAS BEEN TASKED TO MARKET AND MANAGE OUR LARGEST INDUSTRY.

BUT AFTER HITTING A TIPPING POINT, THERE'S BEEN A PUSH TO CHANGE HOW THE STATE ATTRACTS VISITORS.

DESPITE EFFORTS BY HTA TO ADJUST ITS FOCUS, LAWMAKERS HAVE CUT FUNDING, WITH SOME CALLING FOR THE AGENCY TO BE DISSOLVED.

WE'LL DISCUSS THE FUTURE OF THE HAWAI'I TOURISM AUTHORITY ON TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVE STREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I.

>> Daryl: ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I...I'M DARYL HUFF.

THE HAWAI'I TOURISM AUTHORITY WAS ESTABLISHED IN 1998 THROUGH A LEGISLATIVE ACT AND IS CHARGED WITH MARKETING AND MANAGING THE STATE'S LARGEST INDUSTRY.

THE AGENCY ALSO HELPS TO FUND DOZENS OF PROGRAMS AND EVENTS EACH YEAR, THAT ARE ENJOYED BY BOTH TOURISTS AND RESIDENTS.

BUT AFTER A RECORD 10.4 MILLION VISITORS TRAVELLED TO HAWAI'I IN 2019 MANY RESIDENTS SAID THAT WAS TOO MANY WITH PAINFUL IMPACTS TO OUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND OUR NATURAL ENVIRONMENT.

NOW WITH RESIDENTS COMPLAINTS STILL RINGING IN THEIR EARS -- LAWMAKERS ARE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERING DOING AWAY WITH THE HTA.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND YOU'LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

JOHN DE FRIES WAS NAMED THE PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE HAWAI'I TOURISM AUTHORITY IN 2020.

BORN AND RAISED IN WAIKIKI, HE CAME TO THE JOB WITH MORE THAN FOUR DECADES OF PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE IN THE TOURISM AND RESORT DEVELOPMENT INDUSTRIES.

DEMOCRATIC REPRESENATIVE NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK SERVES DISTRICT 50 WHICH COVERS KAILUA AND A PORTION OF KANEOHE BAY.

BORN AND RAISED IN KAILUA, THIS FRESHMAN REP IS THE VICE CHAIR OF THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON TOURISM.

CHOON JAMES HAS BEEN A RESIDENT OF O'AHU'S NORTH SHORE SINCE 1975.

SHE'S A RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE BROKER, AN ORGANIC FARMER AND A LONGTIME COMMUNITY ADVOCATE.

AND KEITH VIEIRA IS A PRINCIPAL AT K-V AND ASSOCIATES HOSPITALITY CONSULTING.

BORN AND RAISED IN HILO, HE BEGAN HIS LONG CAREER IN THE TOURISM INDUSTRY 1981 AND WAS WITH STARWOOD HOTELS FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES.

WE WERE JUST CHATTING, AND I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU WERE ON THE EARLY BOARDS OF HTA.

WHAT WAS THE CONCEPT BACK THEN?

>> WE HAD ABOUT TEN YEARS OF STAGNANT GROWTH IN VISITORS, AND CAYETANO -- GOVERNOR CAYETANO HAD RECOGNIZED THAT UNLESS WE FIND SOME WAY TO MANAGE GROWTH GOING FORWARD AND HAVING DEDICATED FUNDING.

BECAUSE EVERY YEAR WE WOULD GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND BEG FOR 5 MILLION OR 10 MILLION IN MARKETING DOLLARS OR WHATEVER IT WAS.

SO HE SAID PUT IT TOGETHER, THE T.A.T., THE ACCOMMODATIONS TAX.

LET'S HELP FUND THE CONVENTION CENTER AND FUND OURSELVES IN MARKETING.

IT MADE A LOT OF SENSE AND HAD A GOOD START GOING INTO IT, BUT IT'S GOT HIGHJACKED BY LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE TAKEN ALL THE MONEY NOW.

AND SO WE HAVE SOME CHALLENGES GOING FORWARD.

>> Daryl: SPEAKING OF LEGISLATORS, NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM THE PUBLIC THIS YEAR THAT HAS MADE LAWMAKERS TAKE A HARD LOOK AT HTA?

>> IT REALLY STARTED MORE WITH THE PANDEMIC.

THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES THAT WE HAD HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY THE BEACHES BY OUR HOUSE WITHOUT BEING BACK-TO-BACK AGAINST 10, 20 VISITORS.

THERE WAS AN OUTCRY AND THAT POINT FORWARD.

PEOPLE LIKE CHOON JAMES WHO HAD BEEN ADVOCATING FOR BETTER TOURISM MANAGEMENT BEFORE THEN.

AND SO I'M EXCITED TO SEE THE LEGISLATORS ARE SERIOUS THIS YEAR.

THEY CREATED A WHOLE NEW TOURISM COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE.

NORMALLY THE TOURISM COMMITTEE IS ADJOINED WITH OTHER SUBJECT MATTER COMMITTEES.

SO TAKING IT VERY SERIOUSLY THIS YEAR.

>> Daryl: SO JOHN DE FRIES, IS HTA STILL RELEVANT?

IN A WORLD OF SOCIAL MEDIA, WHERE EVERYBODY KNOWS WHERE HAWAI'I IS AND WHAT IT'S LIKE BUT ALSO ALL THE HIDDEN PLACES, WHAT DO YOU SEE HTA IS BECOMING?

>> PROBABLY EVEN MORE RELEVANT TODAY.

BECAUSE OF ALL THOSE FACTORS YOU NAMED.

A BIG PART OF MANAGING THE DESTINATION IS HOW WE MESSAGE TO THE WORLD PRIOR TO THEIR ARRIVAL HERE IN SHAPING NOT ONLY THE BEAUTY AND MAGIC OF THE ISLANDS, WHICH IS WELL KNOWN, BUT ALSO WHAT'S EXPECTED OF THAT VISITOR WHEN COMING TO OUR ISLANDS.

WE ENDED 2019 WITH THAT RECORD NUMBER, 10,000,004.

BY JULY 2020, ARRIVALS HOVERING AROUND ZERO.

TO NATALIA'S POINT, THE COMMUNITY FELT WE GOT OUR ISLANDS BACK.

THERE WAS A CERTAIN EUPHORIA ABOUT THIS.

I'M IN KALAKAUA AVENUE IN AUGUST 2020, AT 9:00 P.M., NOT A MOVING VEHICLE IN EITHER DIRECTION.

NEXT MORNING ON THE BEACH, COMPLETELY EMPTY.

SO BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THOSE OF US IN BUSINESS KNEW THAT BORDERED ON BEING A SUGAR HIGH BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE WAS GOING TO INJURE PEOPLE, INJURE FAMILIES.

SO THIS RECOVERY IS STILL MOVING THROUGH PHASES THAT I BELIEVE HTA IS CRITICAL TO REMAIN IN THE ROLE IT'S IN.

>> Daryl: CHOON JAMES, AS A LONG TIME ADVOCATE, AS NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK MENTIONED, SOMEBODY TALKING ABOUT TOURISM A LONG TIME FROM THE LENS OF YOUR COMMUNITY, WHERE DO YOU SEE HTA BEING?

WHAT WOULD YOU HOPE FOR THAT, ASSUMING IT SURVIVES, WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD BE DOING?

>> FOR US RESIDENTS, NOT JUST IN MY COMMUNITY BUT THROUGHOUT THE HAWAIIAN CHAIN, WE WANT SOLUTIONS.

WE THINK YOU CAN CHANGE THE NAME OR YOU CAN CHANGE SOME NEW DEMANDS, BUT TO US, THE PROBLEM WITH TOURISM, DOES NOT JUST REST SQUARELY WITH HTA.

HTA HAS ACTUALLY DONE SUCH A GOOD JOB THAT 10 MILLION PEOPLE COMING A YEAR, SO THE UNDERLYING COMPLAINT IS THAT ITS CURRENT CAPACITY IS THE QUALITY OF LIFE, IT'S THE TRAFFIC CONGESTION.

IT'S A WHOLE SLEW OF THINGS THAT CANNOT REST SQUARELY ON HTA.

SO IF WE REALLY WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF OVERTOURISM AND THE CITIZENS' QUALITY OF LIFE, WE NEED TO REALLY GET TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM, AND THAT'S CARE AND CAPACITY BEING THE BIG ONE AND PRESERVING OUR ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCES.

>> Daryl: LET ME ASK NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK, IS THERE ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT WOULD LITERALLY LIMIT THE NUMBER OF TOURISTS THAT CAN COME?

>> NO.

AND WE'RE PREVENTED FROM DOING THAT BY THE INTERSTATE COMMERCE CLAUSE.

THE U.S. CONSTITUTION SAYS ONLY CONGRESS HAS THAT EXCLUSIVE AUTHORITY.

SO I DON'T THINK WE'LL BE SEEING ANY CALLS FOR THAT.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS REALLY MITIGATE THE IMPACTS, ESPECIALLY ON THE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN MOST NEGATIVELY IMPACTED.

AND BETTER MANAGEMENT, WHICH MEANS THINGS LIKE RESERVATION SYSTEMS AND BETTER PLANNING FOR THE VISITORS WHEN THEY COME SO THAT THEY KNOW MAYBE THIS IS NOT A GOOD TIME TO GO TO THIS ATTRACTION.

IT'S SUPER BUSY AROUND THESE TIMES.

THAT KIND OF THING.

>> Daryl: LET ME ASK KEITH.

YOU MENTIONED THAT THE BIRTH OF HTA WAS AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE FELT THERE WEREN'T ENOUGH TOURISTS.

NOW PEOPLE THINK THERE ARE TOO MANY.

TOM FROM PAUOA ASKED, WHY ARE WE SPENDING $34 MILLION -- I THINK WE'RE SPENDING MORE.

TO ADVISE THIS PLACE.

EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOWS ABOUT HAWAI'I.

THIS PLACE IS OVERRUN BY TOURISTS.

AS A TOURISM MARKETING PERSON, HOW DO YOU SEE DEALING WITH THAT?

CAN YOU DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM COMING?

>> NO.

WE DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE.

FIRST, TO COMMENT ON WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT VISITORS PAYING FOR DIFFERENT THINGS.

VISITORS HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THAT, AND THE INDUSTRY SUPPORTS THAT.

IF YOU GO TO A FUNCTION OR NATURAL RESOURCE, WHATEVER IT IS, YOU'RE GOING TO GO IN.

YOU WANT TO GO ON YOUR PHONE AND GET A PARKING SPACE.

YOU WANT TO GO -- OKAY.

BETWEEN 10:00 AND 12:00 IS MY RESERVATION TIME.

THIS HAPPENS IN THE ACROSS THE U.S.

IN THE NATIONAL PARK.

THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

AND MONEY HAS TO STAY WITH THAT EVENT.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ON VISITORS.

2009, WE HAVE 6.3 MILLION VISITORS.

WE HAVE 63,000 HOTEL ROOMS, TIME SHARE AND CONDOMINIUMS IN THAT MARKET.

2019, WE HAD 63,000 HOTEL ROOMS, TIME SHARE AND MARKETS IN THAT.

10.4 MILLION VISITORS.

WHERE DID THOSE 4 MILLION COME FROM?

THEY'RE STAYING IN PRIMARILY IN ILLEGAL ACCOMMODATIONS.

SOME ARE ILLEGAL, AND THEY SHOULD ALL BE LEGAL.

WHAT DO THEY DO?

THEY GO TO COSTCO.

THEY GO HIKING, BIKING.

THEY'RE THE AT BEACH ALL DAY.

NOTHING WRONG, BUT THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT VISITOR FROM THE TYPICAL RESORT VISITOR.

WE'D LIKE TO SEE MORE EMPHASIS BE ON WHAT JOHN DOES IS TYPICAL RESORT VISITOR.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT HOTELS.

THIS IS ABOUT GETTING A VISITOR WHO SPENDS MONEY WHEN THEY'RE HERE AND DOES THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SET UP TO DO, AND NOT BE CONTINUALLY GOING TO BEACHES.

>> Daryl: JOHN, WHAT TOOLS DO YOU HAVE FOR REALLY MANAGING IT FROM HTA'S POINT OF VIEW?

HTA CAN'T SET UP A FEE AT A PARK OR -- HTA IS THE MARKETING THING.

>> HTA IS -- IF YOU LOOK AT THE VOYAGE OF THE VISITOR AND ALL THE JURISDICTIONS THEY RUN, THEY LAND ON A STATE AIRPORT, THEY GET ON A STATE HIGHWAY, A COUNTY ROAD, CHECK INTO A PRIVATE LANDOWNER.

SO THE ABILITY TO MANAGE TOURISM GOES BACK TO WHAT CHOON WAS SAYING ABOUT THE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS BEING COORDINATED AND COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

THAT'S THE VALUE OF THE DESTINATION MANAGEMENT ACTION PLANS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT TOGETHER.

THERE IS NOW THE INITIAL FRAMEWORK AND INFRASTRUCTURE TO GET THE SOLUTIONS DONE.

HTA'S FUNCTION IS TO COORDINATE THAT, AND IN ORDER TO GET THAT DONE, IT NEEDS TO BE RESOURCED AND FUNDED PROPERLY.

>> Daryl: CHOON JAMES, IN TERMS OF WOULD IT BE OKAY, DO YOU THINK, FOR COMMUNITIES IF YOU HAD THAT KIND OF CONTROL LEVEL ON ACCESS TO THESE RESOURCES FOR TOURISTS?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S A SOLUTION?

>> I THINK THAT WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE, ACCEPT THAT NOT EVERY INCH OF THE HAWAIIAN ISLANDS HAVE TO BE INVADED AND INTRUDED.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, RECENTLY, WE HAVE WAIMANALO, WE HAVE KAILUA, WE NOW HAVE HAUULA WAS SAYING, HEY, WE WANT OUR BEACH BACK.

WE HAVE BEEN JUST OVERTAKEN.

THEY DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER WAIKIKI IN THE DISTRICT.

SO IN THAT SENSE, LIKE HE SAYS, THERE HAVE GOT TO BE MUCH MORE COORDINATION AND CONSISTENCY.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO STOP ILLEGAL VACATION RENTALS.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, ON THE CITY LEVEL, THAT'S A BILL 10 THAT'S GOING TO ALLOW CREATION OF COMMUNITY HOTELS IN RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO A LOT OF THINGS JUST DO NOT JIVE.

THERE IS REALLY A NEED, WHETHER IT'S HTA OR NOT, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE AN OPINION ON THAT, THERE'S GOT TO BE A BETTER COORDINATION UP AND DOWN THE FOOD CHAIN.

>> Daryl: LET ME BOUNCE THAT OFF NATALIA.

IS THERE SOMETHING IN THE LEGISLATURE THAT DOES THAT?

THAT MAKES IT MORE COHESIVE?

THAT IS AN ISSUE.

WHAT THE COUNTY IS DOING WITH CHOON JAMES MENTIONED, WHICH IS BANNING COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES AT STATE PARKS.

IDENTIFYING PLACES WHERE YOU CAN LIMIT TOURISTS AND CHARGE THEM MONEY.

THERE'S THE VISITOR FEE THAT'S COMING.

WHAT MANAGEMENT ISSUES OR TACTICS ARE IN YOUR COURT RIGHT NOW?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT'S REALLY THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE IMPETUS OF CHANGING HAWAI'I TOURISM AUTHORITY INTO A DESTINATION MANAGEMENT AGENCY.

WE NEED THAT ADMINISTRATIVE POWER TO COORDINATE ALL OF THE DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS, TO STREAMLINE EVERYTHING AND TELL US WHAT WE NEED, AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE FOLLOWED THROUGH AT EVERY LEVEL.

>> Daryl: YOU KNOW, JOHN DE FRIES, I WANT TO THROWN QUESTION OUT THERE.

DAVID FROM DIAMOND HEAD, IF ALL THE LEGISLATORS WANT TO DISCOURAGE TOURISM, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL PAY FOR RAIL TO NOWHERE?

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU DO KNOW THEY TAKE $50 MILLION FROM T.A.T.

AND GIVE IT TO RAIL EVEN THOUGH WE'RE 20 YEARS AWAY FROM THAT.

>> Daryl: THEY ARE FUNDING RAIL?

>> RIGHT.

>> Daryl: AND THE PROPERTY TAXES AND HOTELS -- >> AND LET ME MAKE A POINT.

KEITH POINTED OUT EARLIER THAT T.A.T.

EXCEEDED A BILLION DOLLARS.

OKAY.

THAT'S THE HOTEL ROOM TAX.

AND WE'RE IN PURSUIT OF A $75 MILLION ASK AND 11 MILLION -- >> Daryl: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH $75 MILLION?

>> WAIT.

HOLD ON.

ROUND IT OUT TO $100 MILLION.

>> Daryl: OKAY.

WHAT DO YOU DO WITH $100 MILLION?

>> WE'LL GO TO WORK ON OUR END, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, TAKE THE REMAINING AMOUNT IN T.A.T.

AND IN DAY LIGHT APPROPRIATE IT SO THAT THE COMMUNITY CAN SEE AND HAVE TANGIBLE EVIDENCE THAT X PERCENTAGE IS GOING TO NATURAL RESOURCES.

X PERCENTAGE IS GOING TO PUBLIC EDUCATION.

IF YOU SWEEP THAT WHOLE $900 MILLION INTO THE GENERAL FUND, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE COMMUNITY TO APPRECIATE THE VALUE THAT IT'S BRINGING.

HTA DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PART OF THAT APPROPRIATION PROCESS.

THAT CAN BE LEFT COMPLETELY TO THE CAPITAL.

AND THAT WAY, PEOPLE WOULD BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE VALUE THAT TOURISM IS BRINGING IN.

>> Daryl: IS THERE SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THE WORK?

WE ARE SEEING T.A.T.

BEING SORT OF CANNIBALIZED BY VARIOUS NEEDS.

COUNTY'S GOT 3%, AND KEITH MENTIONED THE RAIL GOT A LITTLE BIT.

AND, YOU KNOW, AS JOHN IS MENTIONED, HTA WANTS SOME BUT THERE'S OTHER SOURCES.

WHAT DO YOU SEE IN TERMS OF THAT?

LET'S SEE -- HELP THE PUBLIC SEE HOW MUCH MONEY IS COME IN AND SEE THE BENEFIT.

>> YOU MAY BE ASKING A QUESTION A LITTLE BIT ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.

I'M NOT ON THE FINANCIAL COMMITTEE.

>> Daryl: HOW DO YOU FEEL YOURSELF?

DO YOU FEEL THAT THE T.A.T.

NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED AS A SOURCE THAT IS ACTUALLY BENEFITING PEOPLE AS OPPOSED TO GOING TO A BIG BUCKET?

>> YEAH.

MOST OF OUR SPECIAL FUNDS NEED TO SHOW SOME NEXUS BETWEEN THE MONEY COMING IN AND THINGS THAT'S BEING SPENT ON.

SO I THINK PART OF THE T.A.T.

PURPOSE, THOUGH, WAS IT COULD BENEFIT OUR, YOU KNOW, PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Daryl: NOT INITIALLY.

LET ME ASK, KEITH, HOW MUCH DO WE REALLY NEED TO SPEND MARKETING HAWAI'I?

>> ABOUT 150 MILLION.

>> Daryl: WHY SO MUCH?

>>> WE'RE SOLD BY THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.

COSTCO, PLEASANT HAWAI'I, TRIPLE A OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA HAS 59 MILLION MEMBERS.

THEY WANT TO DO CO-OPS.

IF WE DEAL WITH THEM THAT SAYS, HERE, COME TO HAWAI'I FOR MERRIE MONARCH OR WHATEVER IT IS.

THAT MONEY GOES TO THEM.

THEN INDUSTRY COMES ALONG AND DOES THE CALL TO ACTION.

STAY AT OUR 800 NUMBER OR WHATEVER.

IT'S A SYSTEM THAT'S VERY SUCCESSFUL.

MEXICO HAS 232 MILLION.

NOW WITH ALL THE PROBLEMS THEY HAVE IN MEXICO, THAT'S GOING TO GO UP.

THE CARIBBEAN DOES 125 MILLION.

WHAT WE'VE BEEN SUGGESTING IS TAKE A PERCENTAGE, DEDICATED FUNDING OF THE T.A.T.

SAY IT'S 15% OR 10%, WHATEVER IT IS.

THAT WAY, IF JOHN DOES HIS JOB AND WE GET MORE VISITOR SPENDING AND TAXES, THE AMOUNT GOES UP.

IF JOHN DOESN'T DO HIS JOB, NUMBER COMES DOWN OR WE GET RID OF JOHN.

YOU GOT TO HAVE SOME BASE.

COCA-COLA, NORDSTROM, EVERYBODY -- >> Daryl: HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

WE SHOULD SPEND TRIPLE DIGITS, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO MARKET HAWAI'I.

>> I DON'T MIND THOSE FIGURES BECAUSE YOU NEED TO MAKE INVESTMENTS.

YOU NEED TO USE MONEY TO MAKE MONEY, BUT I'M ACTUALLY -- AT THIS POINT, I'M MORE INTERESTED IN THE LEGISLATIVE EFFORTS RIGHT NOW.

SO FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, I READ THROUGH PRETTY MUCH ALL THE BILLS, IS THAT THEY WANT TO REPEAL HTA.

AND I AM ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THAT BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE A KNEE JERK LEGISLATION.

YES, PEOPLE ARE COMPLAINING.

WE'RE COMPLAINING, BUT WE ALSO MUST RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A PUBLIC POLICY THAT WE'RE MAKING.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE JUST YANK HTA OUT AND PUT ANOTHER NAME, WHATEVER NAME YOU WANT TO PUT IT IN, WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE'S ALREADY AN EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND IN A WORLD OF BUSINESS, THOSE NETWORKING AND INFRASTRUCTURE ARE VERY IMPORTANT, AND IT TAKES TIME TO CULTIVATE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS HAVING SAID THERE, THERE CAN BE A LOT OF BETTER EFFORTS MADE ON THE PART OF HTA IN THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

>> Daryl: LET ME STOP YOU FOR A SECOND.

I WANT TO GIVE NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THIS QUESTION ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK HTA SHOULD BE DOING?

OR WHAT SHOULD THE STATE BE DOING ABOUT TOURISM?

DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE STATE'S ROLE SHOULD NOT BE SELLING HAWAI'I?

GO AHEAD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO I THINK THEIR PRIMARY DUTY SHOULD BE DESTINATION MANAGEMENT.

WHAT'S THE APP YOU USE TO REGISTER AT A CERTAIN PARK?

I DO THINK A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MARKETING IS NECESSARY FOR GOOD DESTINATION MANAGEMENT.

YOU WANT TO BE MARKETING TO THE RESORT VISITOR LIKE HE WAS SAYING OR MARKETING TO STRATEGIC MARKETING TO CERTAIN -- AND YOU WANT TO BE MARKETING AND SPELLING OUT A MISSION OF WHEN, YOU'RE HERE, YOU NEED TO BE RESPECTFUL OF OUR CULTURE AND OUR ENVIRONMENT WHEN YOU GET HERE.

>> Daryl: I THINK, JOHN, YOU WOULD ANSWER THAT QUESTION THAT WE'RE ALREADY DOING AS MUCH AS YOU CAN.

ONE MORE QUESTION, AN ANONYMOUS QUESTION.

HTA SHOULD BE ABOLISHED.

THEY ADVERTISE TO BRING PEOPLE HERE THAT DON'T VALUE THE ISLANDS.

PLEASE PRESERVE THE ISLANDS.

WHAT ARE THE CURRENT EFFORTS THAT YOU'RE MAKING TO MANAGE TOURISM IN THAT WAY?

>> KEEP IN MIND, HTA DOESN'T HAVE A HOTEL ROOM TO SELL OR AIR SEAT TO SELL.

WHAT WE OFFER RELATIVE TO WHAT KEITH DESCRIBED IS OUR ABILITY TO MESSAGE TO THE WORLD, HAWAI'I THAT IS MUCH MORE MULTIFACETED, MULTIDIMENSIONAL.

FOR MORE THAN A CENTURY, WE'VE BEEN MARKETED TO A PLAYGROUND ONLY.

AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, IT WILL ALWAYS BE A PLAYGROUND.

BUT THERE'S SO MUCH MORE THAT WE'VE EVOLVED AS A -- NOT ONLY NATIVE HAWAIIAN CULTURAL DIMENSION, BUT MULTI-CULTURES OF HAWAI'I HAVE BECOME A PART OF AN AUTHENTIC EXPERIENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE SEEKING.

SO PART OF OUR WORK IN DESTINATION MANAGEMENT IS TO ADVANCE BETTER SYSTEMS, GET REALTIME INFORMATION OUT TO VISITORS SO THAT THEY CAN MAKE REALTIME DECISIONS.

IN ORDER TO DO THAT, WE'RE HAVING TO WORK ACROSS AGENCIES WITH DLNR IN PARTICULAR.

>> Daryl: LAND DEPARTMENT.

>> YEAH.

AND SO -- AND PART OF IT ALSO IS BEING ABLE TO BUILD CAPACITY WITHIN THE COMMUNITIES.

THERE ARE SMALL BUSINESSES, THERE ARE FESTIVALS, THERE ARE EVENTS THAT ARE VERY MUCH A PART OF THE VISITOR EXPERIENCE AND COMMUNITY EXPERIENCE, AND HTA IS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THOSE AREA AS WE SPEAK.

>> Daryl: LET ME ASK THIS WAY, ARE YOU MASS MARKETING AT ALL?

>> NO.

>> Daryl: SHOULD THEY BE MASS MARKETING?

>> NO.

>> NOBODY BELIEVES WE SHOULD BE AUTOMATICALLY GOING VISITOR COUNTS.

WE SHOULD BE GOING VISITOR SPENDING.

WHEN WE SAID 150 MILLION, THEY PROBABLY GIVE 50 MILLION TO VARIOUS EVENTS THAT TO ON.

WHEN YOU GO TO KCC ON SATURDAYS AND FARMERS MARKET, IT'S MOSTLY VISITORS TRYING ALL THESE DIFFERENT FOODS.

FOOD AND WINE FESTIVAL DONE TO DRIVE VISITORS IN SEPTEMBER.

AFTER THE SUMMER LULL.

WE THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A MULTIFACETED EFFORT.

ALSO, PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT $24 BILLION IN SPENDING, ALMOST $3 BILLION IN TAXES, WHERE'S THAT COMING FROM IF WE DON'T HAVE A PLAN TO MANAGE AND GROW VISITOR OR SPENDING?

>> Daryl: A QUESTION THAT CAME FROM KAWAIKA.

STATE DOESN'T OPEN ENOUGH POINTS OF INTEREST TO SERVE LOCALS AND TOURISTS AND TAKE PRESSURES OFF CROWDED AREAS.

EXAMPLE IS WHY NOT OPEN PARADISE PARK, FOR EXAMPLE?

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT?

ARE THERE ENOUGH PLACES LIKE THAT?

IS THAT SOMETHING FOR YOU TO ENCOURAGE?

>> WELL, LET ME SAY THIS.

THE DISCUSSION AS TO WHETHER YOU OPEN PARADISE PARK OR NOT, AT THE HEART OF IT IS A COMMUNITY WANTING THAT OPENED, RIGHT?

AND SO COMMUNITIES TODAY ARE NOT GOING TO BE SPECTATORS TO THEIR OWN FUTURE NOR SHOULD WE BE.

AND THAT'S WHY THE GREATER COMMUNITY VOICES THAT ARE EMERGING RIGHT NOW ARE REALLY IMPORTANT IN BEING ABLE TO SHAPE THE KIND OF TOURISM THAT WE WANT.

AT THE SAME TIME, THE CASE POINT, WE HAVE REFINED THIS INDUSTRY OVER TIME TO A POINT WHERE PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE WORLD ARE LOOKING TO HAWAI'I, BELIEVING THAT WE ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THIS.

HTA, WHEN IT ADOPTED ITS NEW STRATEGIC PLAN IN JANUARY OF 2020, HAD TO BECOME AS BIG A COMMUNITY ADVOCATE AS IT IS AN INDUSTRY ADVOCATE.

AND OFTENTIMES, THAT BECOME A VERY DELICATE BALANCE TO ACHIEVE, BUT FRANKLY, THAT'S THE DYNAMISM YOU WANT TO GET TO A NEW LEVEL.

>> Daryl: NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK, HOW IS THE LEGISLATURE DOING?

HOW IS THE STATE DOING AT MANAGING THE FLOW OF TOURISTS?

IS THERE A LOT OF THAT WHERE THEY'RE SAYING, HERE'S A PARK.

AND THERE IS A LICENSED IDEA THAT USED TO BE THE GREEN FEE THAT'S BEEN CHANGED.

HOW MIGHT SOMETHING LIKE THAT BE A MANAGEMENT TOOL?

AND DESCRIBE WHAT IT IS AS IT STANDS TODAY, THE GREEN FEE.

>> RIGHT.

TO ANSWER YOUR FIRST QUESTION, THERE'S ALMOST NONE OF THAT GOING ON AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL.

>> HANAUMA BAY.

>> RIGHT.

THERE'S SPECIFIC AREAS THAT HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF MANAGEMENT AND RESERVATION SYSTEMS HAPPENING.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DUPLICATE ACROSS THE ISLANDS.

AND SB 304, THE VISITOR IMPACT FEE, IS ONE WAY TO GET THE FUNDING THAT WE NEED BECAUSE IT'S FRANKLY NOT HTA'S CURRENT MANDATE TO PROVIDE THESE KINDS SERVICES.

CHAPTER 201B THAT THE STATUTORY GUIDELINES FOR HTA DICTATES THAT THEY HAVE TO DO MARKETING.

IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DESTINATION MANAGEMENT.

SO THEY'VE DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB AT FULFILLING THEIR MANDATE, AND THEY'VE GONE ABOVE AND BEYOND THAT TO DO DESTINATION MANAGEMENT ACTION PLANS WITH INPUT FROM DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES ON DIFFERENT ISLANDS.

SO I GIVE THEM A LOT OF CREDIT FOR THAT.

THAT'S PART OF THE REASON WE WANT TO CHANGE THE STATUTE TO SUPPORT THAT.

>> I DON'T FULLY AGREE THAT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE MANDATE, IT TALKS ABOUT VISION AND DIRECTION.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK WITH DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND DEPARTMENT OF AIRPORTS AND SO THERE IS A COORDINATED PLAN GOING FORWARD.

THEY WERE NEVER GIVEN POWER TO DO IT.

>> OR THE FUNDING.

SO THAT THAT BECOME A CHALLENGE GOING FORWARD.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY SET THAT UP, YOU NEED TO DO IT.

THE INDUSTRY IS ADAMANTLY AGAINST A FEE, A GENERAL GREEN FEE BECAUSE MANY PEOPLE AREN'T GOING HIKING OR BIKING.

THOSE THAT DO GO ARE WILLING TO PAY SO CHARGE THEM.

ALSO, IT'S EASIER DIRECT MONEY WHEN YOU COLLECT IT AT DIAMOND HEAD TRAIL AND KEEP IT THERE.

AS OPPOSED TO THE LEGISLATURE EVENTUALLY SWEEPING IT ALL UP AND IT GOES IN THE GENERAL FUND.

>> Daryl: CHOON JAMES, YOU'RE KIND OF A POLITICAL PERSON.

YOU'VE WATCHED A LOT OF POLITICS.

DO YOU THINK HTA IS SORT OF BEING ALMOST UNFAIRLY SCAPEGOATED FOR THE PROBLEMS WITH THE INDUSTRY?

WHEN WE HAVE LOTS OF INTERRELATED REGULATORY THINGS AND JURISDICTIONS THAT AREN'T DOING ANYTHING BUT THEY SHOULD BE DOING ABOUT IT?

>> WELL, ACTUALLY UPON FURTHER THINKING ABOUT THIS ISSUE, I FEEL THAT THIS IS JUST A LITTLE BIT OF REMEMBER THE DEFUND THE POLICE MOVEMENT?

WHERE EVERYBODY WANTED TO DEFUND THE POLICE?

AND THEN SOME STATES DID IT, BUT THEY'RE ACTUALLY COMING BACK TO FUND THE POLICE BECAUSE THERE WAS SUCH A HASTY DECISION.

AND IN OUR ESTIMATION, THIS ISSUE REALLY OUGHT TO DEMAND MORE TIME AND MORE BROADER PARTICIPATION, ESPECIALLY THE RESIDENTS.

THE RESIDENTS OF HAWAI'I HAS GOT TO HAVE A FEW SEATS AT THE TABLE.

AND RIGHT NOW, THIS MORNING, I THINK THEY PASSED THROUGH HB 1375, AND IT'S A VERY TOP-HEAVY IDEA.

IT'S THAT THE GOVERNOR WILL CHOOSE FOUR BOARD MEMBERS.

THE HOUSE SPEAKER WILL CHOOSE TWO.

THE -- I THINK THE SENATE PERSON WILL CHOOSE TWO.

SO AGAIN, IT IS SO TOP HEAVY, IT'S SO INSULAR.

GRASSROOTS PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY INTO IT.

IF GRASSROOTS PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A SEAT AT THE TABLE, THIS PROBLEM IS NOT GOING TO GET SOLVED NO MATTER WHAT NAME YOU COME UP WITH.

IT THING THREE LEGISLATORS FROM THE BIG ISLAND, I THINK, WHO CAME UP WITH A BILL TO SAY, LET'S STUDY THIS AND COME BACK.

AND IN MY OPINION, AND SOME PEOPLE WE'RE TALKING TO, THAT WE REALLY NEED TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN AND SEE, YOU KNOW, HTA CAN -- CAN HTA DO IT?

CAN HTA IMPROVE ENOUGH?

IF NOT, LET'S GET SOMEBODY ELSE.

BUT TO YANK THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN SO QUICK A TIME, THAT'S A RISKY PROPOSITION.

>> Daryl: LET ME -- SOMETHING KEITH SAID PROVOKED SOMETHING IN ME.

A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS SAY, DISSOLVE HTA.

HTA SHOULD BE ABOLISHED.

HOTEL CORPORATIONS HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO DO THEIR OWN ADVERTISING.

THAT'S KAWIKA FROM THE BIG ISLAND.

DISSOLVE HTA AND USE THE MONEY TO BUILD AN IMPROVED BATHROOM FACILITY, SIGNAGE, ETC.

THAT'S JOHN FROM KAUA'I.

CAN HTA OVERSEE HOTEL MANAGEMENT SO THAT GUESTS BEHAVE?

THAT'S CINDY IN WAIKIKI.

KEEP THE TOURISTS OUT OF RESIDENTIAL AREA.

THAT'S WHAT'S MAKING EVERYONE UPSET.

HAWAI'I KAI.

TO DO ALL THESE THINGS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SO MUCH POWER.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE THE CENTRAL AUTHORITY OF SO MANY THINGS.

IS THAT EVEN A REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS?

>> MOST THOSE THINGS, YOU DON'T WANT TO DO.

GET A ROOM IN WAIKIKI AND LOOK DOWN THE BEACH.

THOSE ARE NOT VISITORS.

THEY'RE HOMELESS PEOPLE GOING CRAZY ON THE BEACH.

SHOULD WE BE MANAGING PEOPLE?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT VISITORS ARE AN INTEGRAL PART.

YOU GOT TEN PEOPLE THAT CALLED IN.

WHAT ABOUT THE 1.3 MILLION, THIS IS MY LIVELIHOOD.

220 THOUSAND PEOPLE WORK IN THE INDUSTRY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TAXES OF THE $3 BILLION, WHERE IS THAT COMING FROM?

>> Daryl: IS HTA THE INDUSTRY?

>> WELL, IF YOU TAKE AWAY WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT MESS WITH HVBC AND MIKE MCCARTHY, THAT WAS A MESS.

THEY GOT UNFAIRLY TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF WITH THAT.

THEY GOT TO CHANGE THAT BOARD AND PUT PEOPLE WITH KNOWLEDGE.

THEY GOT TO PUT PEOPLE IN BOARD WITH BUSINESS KNOWLEDGE AND NOT ACTIVISTS BUT COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT HAVE A BROAD UNDERSTANDING.

KAILUA DOESN'T LIKE VISITORS THERE.

A LOT WANT THE VISITOR MONEY, HOW DO WE MANAGE THAT?

MANAGE IT BY PARKING, NOT ALLOWING BUSES.

THEY CAN DO THE JOB.

>> Daryl: THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING, IS HTA IN A POSITION TO CONTROL THAT -- THAT GRASSROOTS LEVEL OF ACTIVITY?

>> AT THE MOMENT, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH AUTHORITY OVER THAT -- THOSE AREAS.

I THINK THAT THE POINT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

AND THAT'S WHY LEAVING HTA WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW, CONVENING A STUDY OF WHAT MODEL COULD BEST SERVE, NOT MANAGING WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, BUT MANAGING INTO THE FUTURE, I THINK, IS THE PRUDENT APPROACH TO TAKE.

WHICH IS WHY UHERO ISSUED AN UPDATED REPORT JUST YESTERDAY.

>> Daryl: FROM QUESTIONS WE'RE GETTING, EXPECTATIONS FROM HTA ARE EXTREMELY HIGH.

I THINK EXPECTATIONS FALL ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND THE LEGISLATURE.

DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY, NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK?

INDEED, IT'S THE LEGISLATURE AND THE COUNCILS AND THE MAYORS AND THE GOVERNORS THAT HAVE FALLEN SHORT AS OPPOSED TO HTA.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS A COLLABORATION BETWEEN SO MANY DIFFERENT AGENCIES AND DEPARTMENTS WHO ARE SO OFTEN BURDENED WITH TOO MUCH KULEANA AND ENOUGH FUNDING TO TAKE CARE OF IT.

YOU ASKED A COUPLE TIMES IF HTA IS GETTING A BAD RAP.

I THINK THEY'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT OF A BAD RAP DUE TO MAYBE SOME OF THE PRESIDENTS BEFORE MR. DE FRIES CAME ON.

HE WAS PUT ON IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PANDEMIC AND WAS BASICALLY TOLD, DEAL WITH THIS.

FIX IT.

AND HE DID A GREAT JOB.

IMMEDIATELY SHIFTED TOWARDS DESTINATION MANAGEMENT.

IMMEDIATELY TOOK GRASSROOTS COMMUNITY ACTION IN ALL COUNTIES AND ASKED WHAT DOES DESTINATION MANAGEMENT LOOK LIKE?

HE'S BEEN DOING HIS BEST TO IMPLEMENT THOSE PLANS AND AGAIN WITH NOT MUCH FUNDING AND POWER TO GET THOSE DONE.

SO A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION AT THE LEGISLATURE IS, HOW DO WE SHIFT THINGS AROUND TO SUPPORT THAT WORK?

AND HELP IT -- >> Daryl: STRIKING ME ABOUT THAT COMMENT, THOUGH, IS THAT YOU'RE ESSENTIALLY PUTTING A DIFFERENT NAME ON THE SAME ANIMAL.

HAVE ANOTHER BOARD BUT HAVE IT IN DBEDT.

INSTEAD OF QUASI-GOVERNMENTAL.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE ASKING ANOTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE TO DO THE SAME THING.

>> THAT'S A CORE DIFFERENCE OF WHAT WE'RE ASKING THEM TO DO.

A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THING.

WE'RE ASKING THEM TO DROP MARKETING AS THEIR MAIN KULEANA AND TAKE ON DESTINATION MANAGEMENT, WHICH IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE TRYING TO DO MORE OF BUT IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THEIR GUIDING STATUTE.

>> THAT SCARES THE HECK OUT OF INDUSTRY.

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THERE'S A DIVE?

WHAT WAS UNIQUE IS EVERY MAJOR DISASTER WE HAD, 9/11 PROBABLY THE MOST RECENT.

PREVIOUS TO THAT, THERE WERE UNITED STRIKES AND OTHER DOCK STRIKES.

I REMEMBER BEING IN CAYETANO'S OFFICE.

9/11 HAPPENED.

WE WENT FROM 30,000 ARRIVALS A DAY TO NONE.

HE WAS SAYING, I NEVER REALIZED ALL THE PEOPLE FILLING GAS WAS WORKERS, TOURISTS.

HOW DO YOU BETTER MANAGE THAT?

PEOPLE WOULD SAY, FIND A WAY TO BRING TOURISTS BACK.

>> I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT DESTINATION MANAGEMENT DOESN'T MEAN GET RID OF THE TOURISM INDUSTRY.

IT MEANS HOW DO WE KEEP IT AT A SUSTAINABLE LEVEL.

>> YOU HAVE TO DO MARKETING.

I'M NOT DISAGREEING.

>> STRATEGIC MARKETING TO CERTAIN MARKETS WITH A CERTAIN MESSAGE IS PART OF THAT.

>> Daryl: LET ME ASK, AND JOHN YOU CAN PITCH IN ON THIS.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE BIGGER INDUSTRIES -- THE AIRLINES, HOTEL RESORTS, THE COORDINATED INDUSTRY, RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, MANY GROUPS OF INDUSTRIES HAVE INCENTIVE TO ADVERTISE.

WHY IS IT THAT THEY CAN'T DO THEIR OWN ADVERTISING?

WHY DO YOU NEED A GOVERNMENT FUNDED ENTITY TO DO THAT ADVERTISING?

>> BECAUSE WE RELY ON THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.

WHO'S GOING TO HELP PLEASANT, COSTCO, ALL THESE OTHER ENTITIES?

SAY I'LL MARKET MEXICO BECAUSE THEY GIVE IS A SIGNIFICANT PARTNERSHIP TO DO SOMETHING.

SO WE HAVE GOT TO SUPPORT OUR PARTNERS.

IN ADDITION, THERE HAS TO BE DESTINATION MARKETING.

IT'S NOT ABOUT SOME AND STAY AT THE SHERATON WAIKIKI.

COME AND ENJOY HAWAI'I'S FARMERS.

COME AND ENJOY THE FOOD.

COME AND ENJOY THE DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE CHEFS, PACIFIC RIM CHEFS, ETC.

THAT'S GOT TO BE MARKETING DONE BY THEM.

WHO'S GOING TO FUND ALL THE FESTIVALS?

WHO'S GOING TO FUND THE SONY OPEN?

YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE MASS MARKETING.

NOBODY WANTED MASS MARKETING.

WE WANT TARGETED RIFLE APPROACH TO HIGH SPENDING -- >> RIGHT NOW THE BRAND IS THE HAWAI'I ISLANDS.

WHAT YOU WANT IS A STATE ENTITY WHO CAN COME AT THIS FROM A NEUTRAL STANDPOINT.

BECAUSE AT THE PRIVATE SECTOR, WE'RE LEFT TO BRAND.

THIS GOING LOOK VERY HODGEPODGE AND DISJOINTED.

OUR ABILITY TO ESTABLISH A BRAND THAT WE MESSAGE, THAT WE'RE PROUD OF, THAT PLAYS TO A WORLD MARKET BUT PLAYS AS WELL TO A COMMUNITY BECAUSE IT'S A REFLECTION OF THE VOICES IN THE COMMUNITY.

THAT ESTABLISHES A BRAND AROUND WHICH THESE CO-OP MARKETING CAMPAIGNS, AIRLINES, HOTELS CAN ENGAGE IN THEIR OWN MARKETING.

>> Daryl: DO YOU COORDINATE THAT WITH THE INDUSTRY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

>> AND VENDORS.

>> Daryl: CHOON, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE BRAND SHOULD BE FOR HAWAI'I?

>> WELL, WELCOME TO HAWAI'I.

BUT AGAIN, GOING BACK TO SOME OF THE ISSUES HERE, TO ME, TO ME, HTA IS NOT THE SILVER BULLET TO THE RESIDENTS' CONCERN.

SO WELCOME TO HAWAI'I.

YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE.

HAVE A GOOD TIME.

FIND PEACE AND HAPPINESS.

WHATEVER IT IS.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS STILL THE RESIDENTS.

WE WANT TO PUT THE RESIDENTS FIRST.

AND IN THAT SENSE, THERE'S ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT WITH HTA OR EVEN WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT THE BILLS ARE COMING UP, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT WE HAVE TO PUT THE RESIDENTS FIRST.

EVEN THEN, WE REALLY OUGHT TO RESPECT HOME RULE.

IF KAUA'I WANTS TO TREAT TOURISM THEIR OWN WAY, THEY OUGHT TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT IN KAUA'I.

IF BIG ISLAND WANT TO DO THAT OR MOLOKAI OR WHATEVER IT IS, THEY OUGHT TO BE MORE COMMUNITY -- >> AS LONG AS IT'S THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE AND NOT THE MINORITY ACTIVIST GROUPS.

THEY SHOULD HAVE INPUT, BUT THERE ARE 40% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE WHO WORK HAVE A TIE TO TOURISM.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> YOU GOT TO BE FAIR AND LISTEN TO EVERYBODY.

>> RIGHT.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THE ACTIVISTS ALSO REPRESENT A LOT OF THE GRASSROOTS PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO BUSY WORKING.

THEY'RE ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE HOTEL INDUSTRY OR TOURIST INDUSTRY SAYING, THIS IS GETTING SO -- >> Daryl: LET ME THROW THIS QUESTION THAT CAME IN.

HERE.

CASEY ON FACEBOOK.

TOURISM MOSTLY PRODUCES LOW-PAYING JOBS.

PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD RENT.

WHO IS BENEFITING FROM HTA?

WHY AREN'T WE DIVERSIFYING THE ECONOMY?

IS THERE A ROLE IN HTA?

MAYBE IT SHOULD BE A SMALLER PART.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THE AVERAGE HOTEL WORKER, FULL-TIME WORKER IN A UNION HOTEL MAKES?

WAGES AND BENEFITS.

I JUST GOT THIS LAST WEEK.

>> Daryl: PROBABLY $40 AN HOUR.

>> TOTAL SALARY FOR THE YEAR.

>> Daryl: THE YEAR.

60,000.

>> 96,000.

WITH BENEFITS.

>> Daryl: THAT'S UNIONIZED HOTEL WORKER.

>> EVERYBODY FOLLOWS THAT.

THEY MAY NOT GET ALL THE BENEFITS.

>> Daryl: ALL THE SMALL BUSINESSES -- >> I'M SO I THINK HOTELS.

IF YOU ADD TIPS, DARYL, IT'S $120,000.

NOT LOW PAYING.

NOW, THEY WORK THEIR ASS OFF.

THEY PROBABLY DESERVE MORE THAN WHAT THEY'RE GETTING.

IT IS NOT LOW PAYING.

IT IS NOT LOW PAYING THAT YOU THINK.

>> Daryl: WE DON'T HAVE AN ECONOMY RIGHT NOW THAT'S ABLE TO AFFORD HOUSING.

>> GIVE ME A BUSINESS YOU THINK WE SHOULD GROW.

>> Daryl: TELEVISION.

[LAUGHTER] >> AGREE.

>> FILM INDUSTRY.

ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

>> FILM INDUSTRY DRIVE VISITORS.

THEY SEE THESE MOVIES SO THEY WANT TO COME.

>> Daryl: SAY TECH.

SHOULD HTA -- >> WE CAN'T EVEN GET BASIC TECH.

>> Daryl: IS HTA'S ROLE -- I KNOW THIS IS A CRAZY QUESTION.

IS IT HTA'S ROLE TO SAY, HERE IS THE APPROPRIATE SIZED PROPORTION OF THE ECONOMY THAT SHOULD BE TOURISM.

>> NO.

>> Daryl: WHOSE ROLE IS THAT?

>> GOVERNMENT'S.

>> IN FRONT OF YOU, WHAT YOU HAVE ARE RESIDENT SENTIMENTS.

RESIDENT SENTIMENTS, BEING HEALTHY FOR TOURISM, IS EVERYBODY'S RESPONSIBILITY.

EVERYONE AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

THE SCALE AT WHICH WE DO THIS INDUSTRY, AND THE REVENUES THAT ARE DERIVED IS WHAT DRIVES IT.

$2.2 BILLION IN STATE TAX REVENUE IS EQUIVALENT TO PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.

SO HTA GETS POINTED AT AND RIGHTFULLY SO.

THE RESPONSIBILITY OF IMPROVING RESIDENT ATTITUDES TOWARD TOURISM IS RELATED TO HOW WE MANAGE DESTINATIONS, HOW WE LISTEN TO COMMUNITIES AND BEGIN TO DO THIS.

I MADE THE POINT EARLIER, HTA WITH ITS NEW STRATEGIC PLAN IN JANUARY 2020 HAD TO BECOME AS BIG A COMMUNITY ADVOCATE AS IT IS AN INDUSTRY ADVOCATE.

THAT'S A RARE COMBINATION, BUT IT'S AN IMPORTANT ONE TO KEEP.

>> Daryl: WE CIRCLE BACK AGAIN TO HTA AS AN AGENT IN THIS CONVERSATION.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOW DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS CAN MANAGE AT THEIR OWN LEVEL.

SHOULD THE EXPECTATIONS OF HTA BE REDUCED AS OPPOSED TO EXPANDED?

>> THE REASON THAT WE WERE GIVEN WHEN WE STARTED HTA, WE WERE GIVEN THE PROCUREMENT BYPASS, SO TO SPEAK, WE DIDN'T HAVE MESSES THAT WENT ON WITH THIS CONTRACT.

WHAT HAPPENED?

DBEDT TOOK IT BACK AND MIKE IS IN CHARGE.

THAT'S WRONG.

YOU SHOULD HAVE EXPERTS MAKING DECISIONS.

IT SHOULD STAND.

HTA NEEDS TO BE CLEARER ON WHAT THEY'RE EXPECTED TO DO.

AND THEY NEED TO PULL TOGETHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND EITHER AGREE OR NOT AGREE.

AND LOCAL RESIDENTS HAVE TO HAVE A SAY.

>> Daryl: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPEN, TO PUT CONTEXT THAT RECENT ISSUE WAS, THE LEGISLATURE CHANGED THE RULES FOR HTA.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE, NATALIA -- YOU WEREN'T THERE.

YOU'RE A FRESHMAN, BUT THEY DID PRETTY DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THE LEVEL OF AUTONOMY HTA HAD.

>> IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME.

THEY RECENTLY MADE THEM HAD TO ADHERE TO THE PROCUREMENT CODE.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO ABIDE BY.

IT HAS A LOT OF STEPS.

THEY MADE A MISTAKE BIG TIME.

THE HTA, WHEN THEY WERE TRYING TO FOLLOW THESE NEW RULINGS THEY NEVER HAD TO ABIDE BY BEFORE, THEY MISSED A STEP.

>> Daryl: DO YOU THINK IT WAS -- THAT HTA SHOULD BE FREE OF RULES LIKE THAT?

>> I THINK AS A STATE-FUNDED AGENCY, THEY SHOULD HAVE TO ABIDE BY OUR PROCUREMENT CODE AND INCREASE TRANSPARENCY.

>> Daryl: HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

>> BEFORE HB 862, HTA HAD A PROCUREMENT POLICY.

>> Daryl: I SHOULD EXPLAIN TO VIEWERS -- >> OKAY.

WHAT WE NEED IS A DEDICATED SOURCE OF FUNDING, RIGHT.

T.A.T., A TOURISM SPECIAL FUND OVERSEEN BY A BOARD, AND THOSE TWO THINGS FIRST WOULD MAKE US MUCH MORE MOBILE AND EFFECTIVE.

IF WE EARN THE CONFIDENCE OF GETTING THE PROCUREMENT EXEMPTION BACK, THAT WOULD COMPLETE THE -- >> Daryl: THE RULES FOR PROCUREMENT ARE SO DIFFICULT.

WHILE YOU TRY TO DO A CONTRACT, YOU CAN'T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

YOU CAN'T TALK TO THE PROCUREMENT PEOPLE.

YOU CAN'T LET THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

THERE'S ALL THESE RULES THAT BASICALLY TRAP YOU INTO A PLACE WHERE NO ONE'S COMMUNICATING OR BEING FLEXIBLE.

>> WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC MONEY, RIGHT.

AND SO THERE NEEDS TO BE THAT TYPE OF DISCIPLINE PLACED ON IT.

YOU CAN ACHIEVE THAT DISCIPLINE EVEN WITH A PROCUREMENT EXEMPTION AND HAVING A TRANSPARENT PROCESS.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH PUBLIC MONEY, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A PROCUREMENT POLICY THAT'S RIGID.

BUT IF WOULD HEM IF WE HAD THE EXEMPTION BECAUSE HAD WE HAD THE EXEMPTION, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM WE HAVE.

THE FINAL CALL ON THE RFP WOULD HAVE BEEN -- >> Daryl: EXEMPTION FROM THE STATE PROCUREMENT.

>> CORRECT.

>> HE SAID THAT HTA'S MISSION HAS TO BE CLEAR, AND I WANT TO ADD THAT IT NEEDS A PARADIGM SHIFT.

AS WELL.

IT NEEDS TO FOCUS MORE ON THE RESIDENTS, ON THE NATURAL RESOURCES OF HAWAI'I.

EVEN AGAIN, EVEN WITH THE RECENT LEGISLATION, YOU LOOK AT THE NOTES.

IT'S VERY TOP-HEAVY AND GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED.

AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

IT'S THE PEOPLE, IT'S THE COUNTY RULE.

IT'S JUST BEEN OPEN.

SO IT'S JUST NOT A BUSINESS THING.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE HOTEL OR AIRLINES OR THE RETAIL.

IT HAS GOT TO HAVE A PARADIGM SHIFT AND ALLOW THE BIGGEST STAKEHOLDERS, AND THAT'S THE RESIDENTS.

YOU'VE GOT TO PUT THE RESIDENTS FIRST, AND THEN YOU CAN WORK WITH EVERYONE ELSE.

YOU GUYS CANNOT DO EVERYTHING, BUT YOU CAN DO A LOT OF GOOD STUFF.

>> Daryl: I'M GOING TO QUICKLY RUN THROUGH THESE QUESTIONS.

THEY'RE COMING IN FAST AND FURIOUS.

>> PART OF THE REASON KEITH AND I ARE IN THE INDUSTRY IS BECAUSE WE COME FROM THE COMMUNITY.

AND FELT THAT WE COULD SHAPE THE INDUSTRY DURING THE COURSE OF OUR PROFESSIONAL LIFE.

>> Daryl: AND YOU GUYS DID WELL.

I WANT TO SAY, I HAVE A RESPONSE TO THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF HOTEL WORKERS.

IT SAYS TOURISM IS OKAY.

HOTEL WORKERS BUT HOTEL WORKERS ARE STILL LIVING WITH THEIR PARENTS AND CANNOT AFFORD THE COST OF LIVING.

THIS IS GEORGE FROM MAUI.

I'M IN THE TOURISM INDUSTRY AND I THINK STILL TOO MUCH.

KEITH, ARE WE TOO DEPENDENT ON TOURISM?

>> PROBABLY.

WE ARE THE MOST EXPENSIVE PLACE TO LIVE.

WE HAVE LIMITED LAND.

WITH THE HIGHEST UNIONIZED STATE IN THE COUNTRY.

ALL THESE BARRIERS TO INDUSTRY.

WHEN THE PANDEMIC STARTED, YOU CAN -- THEY CAME UP WITH TWO THINGS.

LET'S GROW BREADFRUIT AND BROADBAND.

IT WAS DISBANDED NOT LONG AFTER THAT.

IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME.

WHAT IF WE TOOK TOURISM AND WE SAID, WHY DON'T WE GROW AGRITOURISM?

FARMERS HAVING A CHANCE TO SHARE THEIR PRODUCT AND KNOWLEDGE IF THEY WANTED.

NOT EVERYBODY.

WAIPIO TARO FARMER, MAYBE SHOW WHAT THEY DO AND PEOPLE WOULD PAY MONEY AND STAY THERE.

WHAT IF WE GREW WHAT WE DO SO WELL AND MANAGE THAT?

SO EVERYBODY GETS A SHARE.

>> Daryl: WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT.

>> WHAT HAPPENED TO THE PANDEMIC?

>> Daryl: THAT'S ONE OF GOOD QUESTIONS IN THIS HUGE PILE.

WE HAD THE PANDEMIC AND EVERYBODY SAID WE NEEDED TO DO SOMETHING.

>> HANAUMA BAY, WHICH WAS SET UP BEFORE THAT.

WE DIDN'T SET UP ONE ENTITY.

MAYBE DIAMOND HEAD.

THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST BEEN DONE.

KAUA'I DID IT.

EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT.

>> Daryl: NATALIA, WHAT IS THE LEGISLATURE DOING IN THAT AREA OF IDENTIFY HOW MUCH OF OUR ECONOMY WE WANT TO HAVE TOURISM AND FIND SOMETHING ELSE.

>> DIVERSIFYING THE ECONOMY AND GROWING DIFFERENT SECTORS IS ABSOLUTELY BEEN A PRIORITY OF THE LEGISLATURE FOR YEARS.

I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE PERSON WHO SAID THEY WERE STRUGGLING WHILE WORKING IN THE VISITOR INDUSTRY, PEOPLE HAVING TO LIVE WITH THEIR PARENTS, THAT IS NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE VISITOR INDUSTRY.

THAT IS IN EVERY INDUSTRY.

I WORKED AT THE LEGISLATURE BEFORE THIS, AND I HAD TO GET A SECOND JOB IN THE VISITOR INDUSTRY TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

SO MOST PEOPLE THAT I KNOW WORK TWO OR THREE JOBS TO GET BY.

>> Daryl: FOR FULL DISCLOSURE, I WOULDN'T BE HERE IF IT WEREN'T FOR TOURISM MARKETING.

MY DAD WAS -- >> DARYL, LET ME ADD ONE POINT.

WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT TOURISM AS A DRIVER OF ECONOMIC DIVERSIFICATION, NOT THE ANTITHESIS.

>> Daryl: IS THAT A ROLE FOR HTA?

>> VERY MUCH.

BECAUSE 35 YEARS AGO, A HANDFUL OF CHEFS DECIDED TO COMMIT TO HAWAI'I REGIONAL CUISINE.

MINUTE THEY DID THAT, THEY ALTERED THE WAY LOCAL FARMERS LOOKED AT THE OPPORTUNITY AND LOCAL FISHERMAN AND LOCAL RANCHERS.

AND HOW THAT GREW TO THE DEGREE WE NOW HAVE FOOD AND WINE FESTIVAL AND THE GREAT WORK THAT DENISE YAMAGUCHI HAS BEEN DOING TO BUILD THAT.

THE REASON WE HAVE SOME OF THE TOP ARCHITECTURAL FIRMS IN THE WORLD IS THEY CUT THEIR TEETH ON THE RESORTS.

SO TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, WE HAVE EXAMPLES.

WE NEED TO GET BETTER AT IT.

>> THAT'S A MANAOLA SHIRT.

THIS IS A MANAOLA SHIRT, WE TOOK MANAOLA TO TAHITI.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT HOW THEY CAN INCORPORATED THEIR DESIGNS.

THAT'S WHAT WE SHOULD BE EXPORTING.

>> MADE IN HAWAI'I PRODUCTS.

>> Daryl: THAT'S BEEN SORT OF THE VISION THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AT THE LEGISLATURE.

CAN WE USE OUR PLATFORMS, DIGITAL PLATFORM THAT'S YOU HAVE TO USE TO GET TO A PARK TO PAY THAT FEE TO ALSO MARKET PRODUCTS TO PEOPLE WHO ARE USED TO BUYING THINGS.

DO YOU SEE HOPE IN THAT?

YOU'RE A YOUNG PERSON.

THE YOUNGEST HERE.

DO YOU SEE HOPE IN THAT THINKING?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WE NEED TO EMBRACE TECHNOLOGY A LITTLE BIT MORE AND ASSIGN PEOPLE TO DO THOSE JOBS AND NOT JUST THINK EACH AGENCY IS GOING TO COME UP WITH IT.

WE NEED TO INVEST IN TECHNOLOGY AND CREATE A NEW INDUSTRY IN THAT SENSE.

>> LOOK AT THE ARTISANS.

I WAS AT LOHEA GALLERY TODAY.

BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT THAT CAN BE.

IF WE HAD AN AUTOMATIC SIMPLE SYSTEM ON HOW IT'S SENT.

LIKE MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WHEN YOU'RE BUYING WINES.

>> Daryl: YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON AT MERRIE MONARCH.

CHOON, DO YOU HAVE HOPE?

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ARE THINKING DIFFERENTLY AND CREATIVELY FINALLY?

>> WELL, I ALWAYS HAVE HOPE.

[LAUGHTER] THAT'S WHY I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN GRASSROOTS POLITICS FOR SO LONG.

WE NEED TO BE PRAGMATIC AND PRACTICAL.

YES, WE NEED TOURISM, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO REALLY CREATE OTHER INDUSTRY.

FOR EXAMPLE, SOUTH KOREA, THEY IN INVESTED IN THEIR PEOPLE'S HUMAN CAPITAL.

THEY HELP WITH THEIR FILM INDUSTRY AND IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, AND LOOK, KOREAN MUSIC AND KOREAN DRAMA IS TAKING OVER THE WHOLE WORLD.

ON TOP OF ABOUT -- ON TOP OF THAT, THERE ARE SO MANY SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE ON OUR ISLANDS WHO ARE DOING REALLY GOOD, NONTOURIST INDUSTRY.

AND THOSE REALLY OUGHT TO BE SUPPORTED MORE.

SOMETIMES GOVERNMENT HAS GOT TO STEP ASIDE AND NOT PLACE TOO MUCH RED TAPE ON ENTERPRISING, ENTREPRENEURSHIP, AS WELL.

>> Daryl: JOHN DE FRIES, READING ANOTHER QUESTION.

KEEP THE TOURISTS IN WAIKIKI.

LET US BE ON OUR BEACHES.

IS HTA ON THE ROPES RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF FINDING ITS FOOTING AND THE PLACES IT NEEDS TO BE?

HOW CLOSE ARE YOU TO BEING ABLE TO RESUSCITATE THAT ROLE?

>> IN THE CREATION OF THE DESTINATION MANAGEMENT ACTION PLANS, EACH ISLAND HAS A CORE STEERING COMMITTEE MADE UP OF DIVERSE MEMBERS FROM INDUSTRY AND THE COMMUNITY.

RIGHT.

IT'S NOT THE COMPLETE SOLUTION, BUT IT IS THE START.

AND WHAT WE NEED -- AND THEY'VE IDENTIFIED THE HOT SPOTS.

THE TROUBLED AREAS, THE OPPORTUNITIES TO GROW SMALL BUSINESSES.

WHAT WE NEED IS THE FUNDING AND THE RESOURCES AND THE STAFFING TO BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT AT AN ACCELERATED RATE, BUT I FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THE WORK WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED IN THE LAST TWO AND A HALF YEARS.

AND I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT CHANGING DIRECTIONS ABRUPTLY.

KEEP IN MIND SENATE JUST APPROVED FIVE OF 12 MEMBERS TO -- >> Daryl: TALKING ABOUT GIVING YOU ALL THIS CONSIDERABLE MONEY.

THEY'RE PUTTING PEOPLE ON YOUR BOARD AND TALKING ABOUT DISSOLVING YOU.

NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK, WE'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE, MINUTE AND A HALF.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT WILL BE THE PRODUCT OF THE LEGISLATURE IN TERMS OF HTA AND TOURISM FUNDING?

>> SO THAT'S THE FUNNY PART ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE.

WE HAVE SO MANY DIVERSE OPINIONS THAT WE'RE OFTEN SPEAKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF OUR MOUTHS OR DOING TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

THIS IS A HUGE IDEA THAT REALLY HAS ONLY BEEN THOUGHT ABOUT AT THE LEGISLATURE FOR THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S REALISTIC TO EXPECT THAT WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THE CHANGE THIS YEAR.

IN THE HOUSE, WITH OUR TOURISM COMMITTEE CHAIRED BY REPRESENTATIVE QUINLAN, WHO'S A MEMBER OF THE NORTH SHORE COMMUNITY, WHO IS EXTREMELY NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY TOURISM, HE'S MADE IT A PRIORITY TO WORK ON THIS.

I FULLY SUPPORT THAT.

CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THIS SHIP, WHICH HAVE GONE SO FAR OF A THE RAILS.

>> Daryl: KIND OF SOUNDS LIKE READING BETWEEN THE LINES.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT BOTH HOUSES PASSED THESE THINGS, BUT NOTHING'S REALLY GOING TO CHANGE.

>> NOBODY KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO COME OUT OF CONFERENCE COMMITTEE.

IT WILL CHANGE EVENTUALLY.

>> Daryl: MAYBE NOT THIS YEAR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT.

AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS - PRESIDENT AND CEO OF THE HAWAI'I TOURISM AUTHORITY JOHN DE FRIES AND NORTH SHORE RESIDENT CHOON JAMES.

AND REPRESENTATIVE NATALIA HUSSEY-BURDICK AND KEITH VIEIRA FROM K-V AND ASSOCIATES HOSPITALITY CONSULTING.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIKERS WHO BREAK THE RULES AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD PAY FOR IT IF THEY NEED TO BE RESCUED.

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I'M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I, ALOHA!