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TED: COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON," THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

WE'LL LOOK AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING ARRAIGNMENTS IN ARIZONA'S FAKE ELECTORS CASE.

JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE IS NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

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TED: GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE.

AND JOINING US CAMRYN SANCHEZ OF KJZZ RADIO, MARK BRODIE ALSO FROM KJZZ AND MARY JO PITZL FROM "ARIZONA REPUBLIC."

FAKE ELECTORS CASE, THEY CAME TO TOWN.

>> YES, THEY DID, AND MOST OF THEM SHOWED UP AND GOT ARRAIGNED THIS WEEK.

THAT WAS A BIG DEAL.

FIRST BIG STEP IN THE CASE, AND RUDY GIULIANI GOT SERVED AND SHOWED UP ON THE SCREEN, AND HE WAS KIND OF THE ONLY ONE WHO SORT OF FOUGHT BACK ABOUT IT AND SAID THIS IS A RIDICULOUS THING, AND YOU KNOW, HE'S BEEN ORDER TO COME AND SHOW UP IN ARIZONA.

TED: RUDY, STOLE THE SHOW, DIDN'T HE?

>> YEAH, SOUNDS LIKE HIS ZOOM OR WHATEVER, TELEPHONE APPEARANCE WAS A BIT EVENTFUL.

TED: MARY JO, THIS IS FORGERY, CONSPIRACY, FRAUDULENT SCHEMES, BASICALLY PRETENDING TO BE SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT IN ORDER TO GET DONALD TRUMP TO WIN?

>> RIGHT, ALL STEMMING FROM THE FACT THEY PRESENTED THEMSELVES AS THE OFFICIAL PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS FOR ARIZONA IN THE WAKE OF THE 2020 ELECTION.

THEY WANTED TO HAVE THIS PRESENTED TO CONGRESS.

IT WAS ON ITS WAY.

THEN JANUARY 6 HAPPENED, TO SAY WE'RE THE ELECTORS.

IF THAT HAD BEEN ACCEPTED AND BEEN THE CASE, TRUMP WOULD HAVE WON ARIZONA AND PROBABLY WOULD HAVE WON THE ELECTION.

TED: WHAT IS THE DEFENSE?

I'VE HEARD WE THOUGHT WE WERE DOING THIS AND THIS WAS A CONTINGENCY KIND OF A THING OR I WASN'T QUITE SURE.

WHAT KIND OF DEFENSE?

>> KELLI WARD -- THE ATTORNEY FOR KELLI WARD AND HER HUSBAND MICHAEL BOTH INDICTED PORTRAYED A FREE SPEECH EXERCISE.

THEY'RE PROTECTING ELECTION INTEGRITY AND THIS IS CERTAINLY FREE SPEECH RIGHT TO SPEAK UP, BUT THEY PRESENTED DOCUMENTS AND SENT THEM TO CONGRESS, AND I BELIEVE ALSO TO THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES, ATTESTING THAT THEY ARE THE LEGITIMATE ELECTORS, AND THEY WEREN'T.

TED: FREE SPEECH IS ONE THING, I CAN'T RUN AROUND TELLING PEOPLE I'M A COP WHEN I'M NOT A COP.

IT ONLY GOES SO FAR.

>> YOU CAN TRY, IT MIGHT BITE YOU IN THE BUTT.

TED: MAYBE GET A $10,000 SECURED BOND LIKE RUDY.

WHAT WAS THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> FOR CONTEXT, HE HAD BEEN DODGING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL PROCESS SERVERS, IF THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL HIM, TRYING TO SERVE HIM.

HE WAS IN FLORIDA, CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK, AND HE WAS TWEETING ACTIVELY AND SAID IF THEY CAN'T SERVE ME IN TIME, THEN I'M OFF, HA-HA, AND YOU CAN'T COUNT VOTES EITHER, AND HE GOT SERVED AT HIS OWN BIRTHDAY PARTY, BUT WHEN HE CAME TO THE COURT HE SAID I WASN'T HIDING AND I'VE BEEN SERVED SO MANY TIMES AND I'VE ALWAYS SHOWED UP, SO I SHOULDN'T GET EXTRA NEGATIVE TREATMENT FOR THAT.

>> IT WASN'T EXACTLY LIKE WHERE'S WALDO.

HE WAS BROADCASTING FROM FLORIDA, WHICH IS HOW THE PROCESS SERVERS WERE FINALLY ABLE TO GET DOWN THERE AND TRACK.

IN A WAY HE WASN'T HIDING BUT BOY, TRYING TO DRAG THIS OUT AND TAUNT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S PEOPLE.

TED: AND THEN THE COURT COMMISSIONER, DURING THE PROCESS, TOLD HIM STOP TALKING, KNOCK IT OFF.

>> AN ARRAIGNMENT IS USUALLY A FAIRLY ROUTINE KIND OF THING, YOU GO AND YOU ENTER A PLEA, AND HERE ARE THE CHARGES AGAINST YOU, AND IT'S NOT USUALLY A TIME TO MAKE A TON OF ARGUMENTS OR MAKE A LOT OF STATEMENTS, POLITICAL OR OTHERWISE, AND I DON'T KNOW, HE'S BEEN SERVED A LOT.

YOU WOULD THINK HE WOULD KNOW WHAT AN ARRAIGNMENT ENTAILS, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S INTERESTING AROUND ARIZONA RELATIVE TO OTHER STATES WHERE THIS IS AN ISSUE.

THERE ARE OTHER STATES WHERE THE SO-CALLED FAKE ELECTORS PUT IN DOCUMENTS IT WAS A CONTINGENCY IF IT WAS FOUND THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WON THAT STATE, THEN THAT WAS THE SLATE OF ELECTORS.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT WAS THE CASE IN ARIZONA.

THEY DIDN'T SAY IF HE ACTUALLY WON THE STATE OR THE ELECTORS, THEY SAID WE ARE THE ELECTORS.

TED: THEY DIDN'T SAY THAT AND OTHER STATES DID.

>> RIGHT, AFTER THIS CAME OUT, ONE OF THE ARGUMENTS AS WELL, WE WERE HERE AS A BACKUP JUST IN CASE, THAT WAS NOT STATED IN THE DOCUMENTS.

IT WAS ONLY AFTER THIS WAS UNCOVERED IN LATE 2021 OR 2020, WE WERE BACKUP OF PLAN B, IN CASE NEEDED.

TED: SOUNDS LIKE SET TO GO TO TRIAL IN OCTOBER.

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.

THIS IS GOING TO GET PUSHED OUT, IS IT NOT?

>> THAT'S PRETTY LIKELY.

I DON'T WANT TO PROMISE ANYTHING.

I EXPECT WE'LL BE NEWS OF THE DAY FOR MANY MONTHS TO COME.

>> I IMAGINE PLEA DEALS, COOPERATION AGREEMENTS COULD BE FORTHCOMING?

>> POSSIBLY.

THERE'S SPECULATION SOME OF THE FOLKS MIGHT FLIP AND START SINGING ON OTHERS TO GET OUT OF -- GET LESSER DEALS AND GET OUT OF POTENTIAL EXPENSIVE TRIAL AND LENGTHY PUNISHMENT THERE.

TED: I BELIEVE WE HAD ONE OF THE DEFENDANTS, STATE SENATOR, USING A PUBLIC DEFENDER?

IS THAT TRUE?

SENATOR KERN, DID HE GET A PUBLIC DEFENDER?

>> I DO NOT KNOW.

TED: PULLED THAT OUT OF THIN AIR.

LET'S GO TO SOMETHING CONCRETE.

THESE FOLKS NEED MONEY, WHERE ARE THEY GOING TO GET THE MONEY?

>> I DID A QUICK LOOK FOR SOME OF THE FUND-RAISING THAT THE FAKE ELECTORS HAVE BEEN DOING, GIVE, FUND, GO, THE AWARDS ARE THE ONLY ARIZONANS WHO ARE THERE LOOKING FOR MONEY, THAT WAS STARTED BY THEIR ATTORNEY.

THE OTHERS HAVE ALREADY HAD CROWD FUNDING SITES.

GIULIANI AND EASTMAN AND JENNA ELLIS AND MICHAEL ROMAN, A TRUMP CAMPAIGN OFFICIAL.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF APPEAL TO THE FAITHFUL, PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY'VE BEEN WRONGED, AND WHAT GIULIANI IS LOOKING TO RAISE THROUGH GIVE, SEND, GO IS FAIRLY MODEST BUT IT GOES INTO A LARGER RUDY GIULIANI FREEDOM FUND OR SOMETHING.

A LOT OF FUND-RAISING.

TED: DOES THE RUDY GIULIANI FREEDOM FUND MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO OTHER DEFENDANTS WHO NEED HELP IN TERMS OF LEGAL DEFENSE?

>> I HAVE NOT SEEN INDICATION OF THAT.

MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR KERN OR HOPES IT WILL BE, FOR HIS ELECTION AS WELL, NOT JUST TO RAISE MONEY FOR GETTING OFF THE COURT CASE BUT ALSO CAMPAIGNING ON IT AND TRYING TO WIN VOTES OFF OF IT.

TED: I HAVE TO LOOK UP THE PUBLIC DEFENDER STORY, MAYBE I MADE THAT UP.

BACK TO YOU, CAMRYN.

LET'S TALK ABOUT, WE FINALLY GOT AN ETHICS COMPLAINT REGARDING HOFFMAN AND KERN, BUT IT WAS FROM A DEMOCRAT AND SOUNDS LIKE IT STUCK IN MUD.

>> DEAD ON ARRIVAL, A NOTHING BURGER, A DEMOCRAT SAYING HEY, THESE PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE DONE SOMETHING BAD, SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO BE ON THE COMMITTEES TO THE REPUBLICAN ETHICS CHAIR IN THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE AND THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED SENATE ABOUT TWO REPUBLICAN SENATORS AND YEAH, I'M NOT SEEING THAT ONE PANNING OUT.

>> WASN'T THERE AN EARLIER ETHICS COMPLAINT FROM FERNANDEZ?

>> I THINK IT WAS JUST A COMPLAINT.

>> OH, REMOVE THEM FROM CHAIRMANSHIP.

TED: HOW LIKELY IS THIS GOING TO HAPPEN?

>> I THINK CAMRYN IS RIGHT.

LIKE IN THE HOUSE, THE DEMOCRATS FILED AGAINST REPRESENTATIVE AUSTIN SMITH WHO DROPPED OUT OF RE-ELECTION BID BECAUSE THERE WERE ALLEGATIONS OF FRAUD AND FORGERY ON HIS PETITION SIGNATURES AND THAT ONE NEVER SAW THE LIGHT OF DAY, ETHICS CHAIRMAN IN THE HOUSE, JUSTICE CHAPLIK DISMISSED IT.

THIS ISN'T THE PROPER VENUE FOR THIS, AND THAT'S THE FIRST WE SAW OF THE COMPLAINT.

>> THE IRONY IS THE COMPLAINT WANTS TO HAVE SENATORS HOFFMAN AND KERN REMOVED FROM COMMITTEE CHAIRMANSHIPS, THE ONLY COMMITTEE DOING ANYTHING IS THE ETHICS COMMITTEE.

SO I'M NOT SURE AT THIS POINT OF THE SESSION, IN AN ELECTION YEAR, WHAT THE ACTUAL PUNISHMENT IS.

TED: SHOCKINGLY AND HER ONNIVECALLY BAD JUDGMENT.

>> THEY HAD EXACTLY RIGHT.

ODDS OF THE COMMITTEE DOING ANYTHING AND MAYBE THEY'LL SURPRISE US ALL, BUT SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY.

>> YOU CAN ARGUE IT SETS A BAD PRECEDENT FOR ANYONE TO BE ACCUSED OR INDICTED BEFORE THEY ARE CONVICTED TO BE PUNISHED AND THROWN OFF OF COMMITTEES, FOR EXAMPLE.

WHERE DOES THAT STOP, IF YOU START THE BALL ROLLING ON THAT?

>> THAT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT TO BE MADE.

LET THE COURTS, THESE THINGS ARE IN THE COURTS, LET THEM PLAY OUT AND BY THEN THEY ARE LONG GONE.

TED: DUE PROCESS WILL TAKE ITS COURT.

MARY JO, BLAKE MASTERS HAD TEXTS WITH ABE HAMADEH IN JANUARY OF 2023.

SOUNDS LIKE THERE WAS A CURIOUS CONVERSATION.

>> BOTH OF THESE MEN ARE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT 8 SEAT UP IN NORTHWEST VALLEY, THE SEAT DEBBIE LESKO HOLDS, AND SINCE THEY'RE NOW RIVALS, HAMADEH SHARED WITH MASTERS THAT HE CALLED A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT ELECTION RESULTS CRAZIES.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPORTING ABE HAMADEH, AND HE'S BASICALLY CALLING THEM CRAZIES AND CONGRESSMAN MASTERS PREVIEWED A SPOTLIGHT ON THAT.

TED: AND HAMADEH'S REACTION WAS TO REFER TO A FRIEND HAS TURNED INTO A SNAKE.

AS MARY JO MENTIONED, THESE PEOPLE ARE RUNNING AGAINST EACH OTHER ALONG WITH HALF OF MARICOPA COUNTY RUNNING IN THE RACE.

THEY'RE COMPETITORS.

>> THEY ARE NOW.

IT WAS A BAD BREAKUP.

THEY TRUSTED EACH OTHER ONCE UPON A TIME, THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE IT WAS THE WHOLE TICKET WITH MASTERS AND HAMADEH AND NOW MASTERS IS A BLACK SHEEP AND KARI LAKE AND HAMADEH ARE FIGHTING ON THE SAME SIDE BUT NO LONGER ONE OF THEIR FLOCK.

>> FOR CONTEXT, HAMADEH WAS TALKING ABOUT, IF YOU REMEMBER, HE NARROWLY LOST THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RACE AND HE WAS IN HIS -- THE TEXT MESSAGE WAS DISTANCING HIMSELF FROM OTHER REPUBLICANS WHO DIDN'T LOSE SO NARROWLY, SAYING, THEREFORE, I WILL NOT BE SEEN AS A CRAZY, AND THE CRAZIES WON'T GO AFTER ME BECAUSE I JUST LOST -- WELL, I DON'T THINK HE SAID I LOST 280 VOTES BECAUSE HE SAID THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT HAD A VERY NARROW MARGIN IN THE RACE COMPARED TO MARK FINCHEM AND MASTERS IN THE SENATE RACE AND MAYBE KARI LAKE WHO LOST BY 17,000 VOTES.

TED: BUT CRAZIES, THAT'S HARD TO WALK THAT ONE BACK.

>> YEAH, IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING HOW OR IF THIS AFFECTS THAT PRIMARY.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THAT PRIMARY, AND IT SEEMED THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM WAS MASTERS AND HAMADEH WERE, TO AN EXTENT ANYWAY, TRYING TO APPEAL TO THE SAME BLOC OF VOTERS, THE PEOPLE SUPPORTED THEM TWO YEARS AGO.

THIS IS A WAY FOR MASTERS TO DIFFERENTIATE HIMSELF FROM HAMADEH.

TED: AND AGAIN, HAMADEH IS THE MAGA TRUMP-ENDORSED CANDIDATE.

>> YEAH, TRUMP ENDORSED HIM.

TED: ANY COMMENTS FROM TRUMP OR LAKE ABOUT THIS?

>> I THINK KARI LAKE SAID NOT A FAN OF THE TEXT BEING RELEASED, WHICH IS INTERESTING.

TED: CAMRYN?

>> YES, STANDING BY HAMADEH'S SIDE.

IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE SHE LEAKED THE CONVERSATION OR SOMEONE LEAKED THE CONVERSATION SHE HAD WITH JEFF DeWIT WHO IS RECENTLY OUSTED.

I EXPECT SHE'S A SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT.

TED: LEAKED FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME.

DO YOU THINK IT COULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE ELECTION?

>> IT MIGHT, BUT THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING, WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, TO HAVE A TRUMP ENDORSEMENT IS VERY POTENT, VERY POWERFUL AND HELPS ESPECIALLY IN THAT DISTRICT MORE THAN OTHERS.

>> WIN THE RACE IN THE 20s BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY CANDIDATES, SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PERCENTAGE HERE AND THERE.

IT COULD POTENTIALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

SO IN THAT SENSE, MAYBE IT DOES MATTER, I'M NOT SURE HOW MUCH VOTERS ARE GOING TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO A TEXT EXCHANGE FROM A YEAR AGO BETWEEN TWO OF THESE CANDIDATES.

TED: YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I STILL THINK HAMADEH HAS A SHOT.

IN A GOOD POSITION.

TED: OKAY, ALL RIGHT.

CAMRYN, STICK WITH YOU, BORDER ENFORCEMENT REFERRAL, WE'RE GOING TO SEE ANOTHER THING TO VOTE ON THE NOVEMBER BALLOT.

TALK TO US ABOUT IT.

>> TOOK UP THE BETTER PART OF EVERYONE'S WEDNESDAY.

IT WENT THROUGH THE STATE SENATE.

SO THIS IS A REFERRAL THAT WOULD GO TO THE BALLOT IF IT GOES TO THE HOUSE WHICH IS WHERE IT'S HEADING NEXT.

REPUBLICAN SUPPORTED, DEMOCRAT OPPOSED, WOULD MAKE IT A STATE CRIME TO MAKE IT ACROSS THE PORT OF ENTRY.

ENFORCEABLE BASED ON TEXAS LAW THAT'S BEEN BLOCKED FROM GOING INTO EFFECT, AND MAN, DID EVERYONE HAVE A LOT TO SAY ABOUT IT.

TED: WERE THESE PASSIONATE SPEECHES OR JUST LONG SPEECHES.

>> PASSIONATE AND LONG.

EVERYONE FROM BOTH SIDES WANTED TO COMMENT AND THINGS GOT KIND OF OUT OF HAND.

THERE WAS NAME CALLING AND SHOUTING AND SWEARING AND ACCUSATIONS OF RACISM.

TED: REALLY?

>> PEOPLE IN THE GALLERY TOO GETTING INTO IT.

>> THE PRESIDENT AT ONE POINT WAS LIKE WE'RE ACTING LIKE CHILDREN, YOU CAN SIT DOWN AND BE QUIET.

SOME HAD TO BE FORCED TO SIT DOWN.

>> SAID EVERYBODY TAKE A MINUTE, BREATHE DEEP.

I THOUGHT I WAS IN A YOGA CLASS.

IT WAS CLOSE TO FEVER PITCH.

TED: YOU MENTIONED THIS IS GOING TO THE HOUSE, MORE THAN LIKELY GOING TO PASS, PUT ON THE BALLOT.

PROVIDED WHAT HAPPENS IN TEXAS, IT WAS BASED ON 1070, MAKING A FULL CIRCLE HERE.

MARY JO, THIS IS ANOTHER RECURSIVE ARGUMENT HERE, IS THIS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT IMPACTS OTHER RACES ON THE BALLOT?

IS THIS GOING TO GET FOLKS OUT?

>> WELL, I TALKED TO A POLLSTER TO ASK THE VERY QUESTION.

YOU THINK THE PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS ARE PROBABLY PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE OUT VOTING ANYWAY, BUT HE POINTED OUT THAT IN -- GIVEN WHO'S HEADLINING THE NOVEMBER BALLOT -- TRUMP AND BIDEN, MEH, PEOPLE ARE NOT ENTHUSED ABOUT THE CHOICES -- THAT THIS MIGHT BRING MORE ATTENTION TO THE BALLOT MEASURE.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S GOING TO BE WAY DOWN ON THE BALLOT, AND I STILL THINK PEOPLE THAT ESPECIALLY WANT MORE ENFORCEMENT ALONG THE BORDER, THEY'RE GOING TO BE OUT THERE VOTING MOSTLY REPUBLICAN, AND I THINK THOSE REPUBLICANS WILL BE COMING OUT, THOUGH THERE IS THAT EH ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

TED: YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> INTERESTING POINT TO ME IS BECAUSE IT'S LEGISLATIVE REFERRAL IT WILL BE IN THE 300, PROP 300 SOMETHING, WHEREAS FOR EXAMPLE, THE ABORTION ACCESS SINCE IT'S A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WILL BE IN THE 100 CATEGORY.

IF WE'RE LOOKING AT A POTENTIALLY TWO PIECE OF PAPER, FRONT, BACK, FRONT, MAYBE SECOND PAGE BALLOT, PROP 300 WILL BE FAR DOWN THE BALLOT TO MARY JO'S POINT.

TED: KEN BENNETT MATTERED HERE, DIDN'T HE?

>> HE SURE DID.

THIS PROPOSAL WAS AMENDED IN THE SENATE TO GET THINGS ON IT THAT KEN BENNETT REQUIRED.

AND KEN BENNETT IS THE 16th VOTE NEEDED TO PASS.

HE'S REPUBLICAN, BUT HAD HESITATIONS ABOUT THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE PROPOSAL.

HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T TARGET DACA RECIPIENTS BUT SAID A DREAMER, DACA RECIPIENT MIGHT BE SOMEONE YOU CAN DEPORT IF THE PROGRAM EVER ENDS AND HE DOESN'T WANT ANYTHING RETROSPECTIVE.

IF YOU'RE HERE, YOU'RE HERE, HE WANTS IT TO BE GOING FORWARD, HE SAID THAT CLEARLY.

HE WANTED CLARIFICATION ON PROBABLE CAUSE BECAUSE THE REASON DEMOCRATS ARE COMPARING IT TO SB 1070, THEY'RE CONCERNED IT WILL START RACIAL PROFILING AND THE PERSON CROSSED THE BORDER BASED ON APPEARANCE, BENNETT WANTED IT TO BE SUPER CLEAR.

NOW YOU HAVE TO WITNESS SOMEONE CROSS THE BORDER, RECORDING OF IT, AND THIS IS WHY THE DEMOCRATS ARE FRUSTRATED, OTHER PROBABLE CAUSE.

THEY'RE LIKE WELL THAT COULD BE ANYTHING.

TED: YOU HAVE TWO THINGS AND THE THIRD THING KNOCKS OUT THE OTHER TWO.

>> HE LIKES IT AND IT GOT HIM ON BOARD SO IT PASSED SO THE DEMOCRATS ARE NOT AT ALL APPEASED.

TED: HE IS CONCERNED THESE ARE FELONIES AND THE IDEA THAT YOU IMMEDIATELY WOULD BE DEPORTED TO MEXICO THOUGH YOU MIGHT BE FROM KENYA?

WERE THOSE SITUATIONS ADDRESSED?

>> HE GOT THE FIRST OFFENSE BUMPED DOWN TO A MISDEMEANOR, THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF MISDEMEANOR FROM FELONY, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED WITH DEPORTATION.

>> YOU CAN SELF DEPORT, GO TO PRISON OR GET OUT AND EITHER GO BACK TO MEXICO OR GO TO, I THINK IT SAYS COUNTRY ARE ORIGIN IN THE BILL, YOU CAN GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

THE OPTION TO STAY AND HANG OUT IS NOT ON THERE.

TED: THE DEBATE IS IT IS LONG AND NASTY HERE, WHAT -- WHY DID IT GET THAT WAY?

IT DEVOLVED IN WHAT WAY?

>> BECAUSE OF 1070.

I HEARD SPEAKER TOMA ON THE RADIO THIS MORNING TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS CLOUD OF 1070 STILL HANGS OVER ARIZONA.

THAT WAS MORE THAN A DECADE AGO.

IT DID LEAD TO PEOPLE BEING STOPPED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND WE HAD MANY ON THE SENATE FLOOR SAYING I GOT STOPPED, I'M LEGAL, I HAVE BROWN SKIN, AND THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THIS SOUNDS A WHOLE LOT LIKE THAT, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO THERE AGAIN.

THAT WAS AN UNSUCCESSFUL ARGUMENT, BUT THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IT STILL HAS TOO MANY FLASHBACKS TO 1070.

TED: AND MIGHT HAVE TOO MANY SIMILARITIES TO TEXAS AND FIFTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS THERE AND IF THIS ALL HINGES ON THAT, REGARDLESS, JUNE 4 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> YEAH, EARLY JUNE.

TED: YEAH, YEAH, COULD THIS BE SOMEWHAT ACADEMIC BUT MIGHT NOT, AND IT COULD AFFECT A LOT OF THINGS AROUND HERE.

LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS TO BE PREPARED FOR THIS.

>> IT COULD, AND THERE'S AN ARGUMENT THEY THINK SOME LAW ENFORCEMENT FOLKS AND DEMOCRATS MADE AS WELL THIS IS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE ON ESPECIALLY COUNTIES WHO ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DETAIN PEOPLE THAT THEY ARREST.

I'VE HEARD IT SUGGESTED IF THIS, ASSUMING THE HOUSE PASSES IT AND QUALIFIES FOR THE BALLOT, THERE WILL BE LITIGATION TO GET IT OFF, OTHER BECAUSE OF OTHER UNRELATED THINGS LIKE FENTANYL, SOME WILL MAKE THE ARGUMENT, THIS IS UNRELATED, SHOULD NOT BE ON THERE.

GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE AN ISSUE BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY FOR SURE.

TED: AND COULD -- THIS IS KIND OF OUT, THERE BUT THE TEXAS CASE COULD WIND UP IN THE SUPREME COURT, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

>> DON'T YOU THINK?

TED: YEAH, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS YOU HAVE ASPECTS OF 1070 THAT A PREVIOUS COURT BLOCKED.

THIS COURT COULD OPEN UP THE WINDOW TO ALL SORTS OF THINGS?

>> WELL, THEY COULD, BUT WE'LL SEE HOW -- THIS ISN'T EXACTLY 1070.

IT'S LIKE I SAID, IT HAS A RESEMBLANCE TO IT, BUT THE RESTRICTIONS ARE MUCH MORE WELL DEFINED.

TED: RIGHT, RIGHT.

NOT THIS PARTICULARLY BUT TAKING A LOOK AT 1070, THE THING THAT WERE BLOCKED COULD COME DOWN THE PIKE, AND ONCE YOU OPEN THE DOOR, YOU OPEN THE DOOR.

>> IT WAS INTENTIONALLY CRACKED, I TALKED TO THE TEXAS BILL SPONSOR FOR KICKS BEFORE IT PASSED OVER THERE, AND HE SAID HE TRIED TO DO IT STOW WOULDN'T BE CHALLENGED AND INTENTIONALLY TRYING NOT TO MAKE IT LIKE 1070 AND MAKE IT MORE LEGAL.

OBVIOUSLY THE ARIZONA THING IS CONTINGENT ON THE TEXAS THING, IF IT'S LEGAL IN TEXAS, MAYBE IT WILL BE LEGAL EVERYWHERE AND I THINK THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONCERNS IN ARIZONA WOULD BE -- EVERYTHING WOULD REFER BACK TO WHATEVER HAPPENS IN TEXAS.

>> I WONDER HOW IT WILL WORK, THOUGH?

IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF, WHAT IF YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO DETAIN THE PERSON?

DO YOU RUN THIS THROUGH FACIAL RECOGNITION SOMEPLACE?

DO YOU WALK AROUND WITH SOMEBODY'S MUG SHOT?

TED: IT'S CHALLENGING, RIGHT?

>> IT COULD.

HAVING EYES ON ACTUALLY WITNESSED SOMETHING IS A LOT BETTER THAN A REASONABLE SUSPICION, WHICH IS THE 1070 STANDARD.

STILL, IT DOES RAISE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW EXACTLY WOULD THIS PLAY OUT?

TED: YEAH, YEAH.

CAMRYN, THE GOVERNOR SIGNED A COUPLE HOUSING BILLS, ONE THAT IS PRO FORMA.

THE OTHER THE ADUs.

>> ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, A CASITA, OR MOTHER-IN-LAW SUITE, YOU HAVE A BIG HOUSE AND WANT TO BUILD A LITTLE HOUSE ON IT.

>> OR TWO.

>> OR TWO, OR NOT.

ANYWAY, THERE WAS A BUNCH OF LEGISLATION THAT WOULD HAVE CAUSED ZONING REFORM AND PREEMPT SHUN FOR CITIES, THE STARTER HOMES ACT GOT VETOED BUT THE ADU BILL MADE IT THROUGH, THAT WAS A SURPRISE BECAUSE IT WAS OPPOSED BY POWERFUL CITIES AND TOWNS THAT TAKE CREDIT FOR GETTING THE OTHER HOUSING STUFF VETOED.

I WAS HONESTLY 50-50 WHETHER I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR WAS GOING SIGN THE BILL BECAUSE IN THE PAST, SHE'S DONE WHAT THE LEAGUE WANTED AND IN THIS CASE NOT.

TED: THE LEAGUE WAS MOSTLY CONCERNED ABOUT SHORT-TERM RENTALS.

>> RIGHT, THEY WANTED ASSURANCE THAT THE CASITAS, THE ADUs WOULD NOT BE USED FOR VACATION HOMES AS AN AirBNB OR VRBO OR ONE OF THOSE.

THEY'RE CONCERNED ABOUT DESIGN STANDARDS.

PEOPLE SAYING THESE COULD BE MUCH TALLER THAN HOUSES OR FRANKLY NOT AESTHETICALLY PLEASING AND WANTED SOME KIND OF REGULATION ON WHAT THESE THINGS WOULD LOOK LIKE AND USED FOR.

TED: NOW THE OWNER HAS TO BE ON THE PROPERTY?

IS THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THROWN AS A BONE HERE?

>> RIGHT, WITH THE BELIEF THAT AN SOUTHERN PROBABLY NOT GOING TO TOLERATE SOMEBODY HAVING A MASSIVE PARTY IN THE ADU OR IN THE CASITA.

TED: YEAH, YEAH.

>> THE STR CAME UP LATE, THE ADU WAS PROPOSED A YEAR AGO, AND THE PROPONENTS OF THE BILL ARE SAYING THAT'S FUNNY ARIZONA LEAGUE OF CITIES AND TOWNS, THAT'S NEVER COME UP BEFORE, AND SEEMS YOU DON'T WANT THIS TO HAPPEN AND YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE.

PEOPLE ARE SAYING, PROPONENTS ALSO SAID THAT WE DON'T REGULATE SHORT-TERM RENTALS OR OTHER HOUSING, SO WHY ARE WE GOING TO PROPOSE THIS AND MAKE IT OTHER HOUSING.

DOESN'T SEEM FAIR.

DEMOCRATS KNEW IF THE STR REGULATION WAS ON THE BILL, IT WOULDN'T GET THE REPUBLICAN VOTES IT NEEDED BECAUSE IT NEEDED A BIPARTISAN COALITION AND REPUBLICANS ARE AGAINST REGULATION OF SHORT-TERM RENTALS FOR FREEDOM OF PROPERTY RIGHTS REASONS.

HOBBS DID SAY VERY CLEARLY SHE DOES WANT TO REGULATE STRs MUCH MORE BROADLY.

TED: AND THE OTHER MUCH LESS CONTROVERSIAL BECAUSE THE LEAGUE WAS BEHIND THIS, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO UNDERSTAND, THIS MIDDLE HOUSING BILL, DUPLEXES, TRYPLEXES.

>> THIS IS FROM MICHAEL CARBONE, REPRESENTATIVE FROM SOUTHWEST VALLEY.

STRIKES A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN A SINGLE FAMILY UNIT AND APARTMENT COMPLEX, IN LOTS OF A CERTAIN SIZE YOU COULD PUT IN A DUPLEX OR TRIPLEX OR TOWNHOMES WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE REZONING PROCESS.

THE IDEA IS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE.

THIS WILL PROBABLY THE IN BE HAPPENING IN THE BACKYARD WHERE YOU PUT THE CASITA.

TED: RIGHT.

>> BUT ON BIGGER TRACTS OF LAND.

TED: AND GOT TO BE WITHIN A MILE OF THE MUNICIPALITIES BUSINESS?

>> YEAH, THE CITY CENTER AREA.

THAT WAS ANOTHER REASON WHY THE CITIES COULD GET BEHIND IT BECAUSE IT COULDN'T BE ANYWHERE.

THE CITY WOULD HAVE A SAY WHERE THESE GO.

>> IN A WAY IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.

PHOENIX CHANGED A LOT OF ZONING EVER SINCE LIGHT RAIL CAME THROUGH, SO YOU COULD LIVE WITHOUT A CAR IF YOU ARE WITHIN EASY WALKING DISTANCE OF THE RAIL OR A BUS STOP, AND AS CITY CENTERS DENSIFY, WHICH THEY SEEM TO BE DOING, AT LEAST PHOENIX, TEMPE, HAVEN'T REALLY CHECKED OUT MESA RECENTLY, THAT IT MAKES SENSE TO ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

AND I'LL TELL YOU, I LIVE IN AN OLDER NEIGHBORHOOD NEAR DOWNTOWN, THERE'S LOTS OF DUPLEXES THERE.

THEY WERE BUILT ALMOST A CENTURY AGO, BUT SORT OF BLEND IN SEAMLESSLY.

TED: NEAR THE ASU AREA AS WELL.

PANEL, GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

GOOD CONVERSATION.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND.