And hello and welcome to forum 360, our program with a global outlook and a local view, talking about topics that everyone in the public realizes is important to our area of Northeast Ohio.

Today we have author and broadcast journalist Paul Orlousky I appreciate it.

Good to have you with us, who has a new book out, has been out for sometime, but it is still in the, available.

It's Paul Orlousky’s book.

Punched, kicked, spat on, and sometimes thanked some memoirs.

Paul Orlousky, a Cleveland television reporter.

And you've been over 50 years now, Paul in the in the business started in 1969, Labor Day 1969.

And you started in upstate New York, upstate New York, where I was born, Elmira, New York.

I was 16 years old, got a job in a radio station.

All right.

Now, what were some of the, when we were.

We're about the same age.

Well, network wise, when you were growing up, did you have any favorite, reporters or, anchor people that you saw, especially at the network?

Well, everybody talks about Cronkite in those days, but the the the Elmira station was NBC.

Right?

And so I was born Brinkley.

Brinkley.

And then later, as I started thinking about broadcasting it, Tom Brokaw I used to watch Tom Brokaw, you know, and so that's why I learned how to loop my microphone, to watch the Tom Brokaw doing and being a, you know, coming from Cleveland.

We had, a couple that went nationally.

Jack Perkins was one.

Oh, sure.

And tons of them.

Bodancy, NBC, Bodanancy and, the Hambrick and, Carl Stern, so many of these great, broadcasters, inspired you.

But you started in upstate New York, in Elmira, and then you moved to Binghamton, which is a little bit bigger market.

Yes.

That's TV, the you know, the bigger the city, the better the job and the bigger the paycheck.

Elmira.

It was in the Cleveland Browns viewing area, so I oh, my goal was Cleveland, Ohio.

Actually, I wanted to get to Ohio because, Binghamton South was the Giants over here and the bills were AFC, AFC at the time and the AFL, I guess.

Yeah.

So it you know.

So anyway, we followed the Browns and they're pretty easy to follow.

in 64 or 65, 66.

You know they've gone through some changes.

Yes.

They just like we all have.

And speaking of changes, you started, moving to Ohio, got into the Youngstown market in 1979 and you started, delivering some of the news stories from the Youngstown.

what were some of the most memorable stories from that era?

Of course, Washington, WVIZ.

And that's where my son I'm sorry, I misspoke, 45 and 40.

Well, WVIZpreceded us, but, in the at 45 and 40 in the mid 70s, Sesame Street 45, 49.

That's where my son learned to read exactly right off those, these TV channels.

PBS Western Reserve.

But, you know, that was a phenomenal time to be in Youngstown because, there was a lot going on.

The, the barlows.

Right.

were into ownership of this, the 40 Niners exactly at the time.

Maybe they might even been before.

But I remember one time, the Barlow and Carmen Policy was down there, and Eddie Flask.

Right.

the guys in big players in Cleveland.

But at one point in time, Danny Thomas was going to have his telethon for Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital down there.

And they wanted me to go cover the story because I was going to be the MC of the the telethon.

So they said, well, are going out to the I think it was a Holiday Inn or something.

And the Barlow's having the Dallas Cowboys there and Danny Thomas will be there.

And then I, I was fairly new in town.

He's going to have the, the whole.

They just they just won the Super Bowl right.

They're going to have the Dallas Cowboys I don't think so.

That's all right.

Fine.

So I gather there's a whole the Dallas Cowboys Too tall Jones, Staubach and Danny Starz over came over and shake my hand.

So I thought way back then I was fairly new in Youngstown.

I said, you know these the Barlow people and Flask and Policy I think I think they got a little grease.

They do.

And they definitely had the influence.

I and then and then speaking of the Browns.

Oh, yeah.

Youngstown.

you had a you had a young admirer who watched you in Youngstown television.

When I see Bernie at places, people say, hey, do you know Bernie?

And Bernie Oh, I used to watch him when I was in high school in Youngstown.

Bernie Kosar.

Yeah, he's one of my he's my most famous book buyer.

Very very good, he did buy the book.

It was for a charity event.

All right then you moved to the Cleveland market and you worked at well, ultimately, three, television stations.

Started at five.

Started with Channel Five and, talk about your your title Punched, Kicked, Spat and Sometimes Thanked, what are some of the examples of punched.

Probably Prince’s bodyguards.

That was, at Channel five.

I was just kind of getting my toe in the door.

So Prince, the, Prince the the entertainer, Formerly Known as Prince, or whatever he call, I had a tip from a limo driver, all right, that he was going to be coming into town there going to be two limos.

One was a decoy, and he was going to come in at, Burke Lakefront Airport at a certain time.

So i had one camera and go over to the Agora because he was coming in to see Shelia E. his girlfriend.

And so I went to to Burke and we waited.

And here came the Learjet, just as exactly the time that he said the Learjet would land.

And this big guy gets off the plane and he says sorry guys, no pictures.

And you may be looking at him on the screen right now.

He's a big boy, probably 325 and 6’9 he's a big boy.

“sorry guys, no pictures.” So I said, well, look, you know, we're here to take pictures.

And in those days you walk on the tarmac.

Yeah.

So I said, you know, we got every right to be here.

And he says, you don't seem to understand, Prince don’t want any (*expletive) pictures.

I said, look, I know I picks me up.

Yeah.

And threw me like a softball.

You got your little punch in.

I got thrown.

The camera got the punch because he pushed the camera back in to his lens is Tommy Livingston, he had a black eye.

So I've got, you know, bloody palms on my hands and my knees, pants torn.

And so Tommy got the shot of Prince coming off the plane.

Right.

Good for him.

And so off they go, two limos.

So I know the right one to follow.

But I put a microphone in the limo.

Right.

So I'm driving there, going down one way streets the wrong way through red lights.

I'm following them.

Tommy can hear what's going on there.

They are mad we knew which one to follow.

Yeah, they're getting better by the minute, so fine.

I said, well, let me know when you have enough.

So we got enough video and he told me.

And so we went over to the Agora to wait for him to arrive.

Right.

So now here comes the limo to arrive.

And the first guy off is big fella.

This is where I made my mistake.

Because I'm ticked off.

Because I'm bleeding.

So I go like, this time, I go, oh, man, it was Give him a high five.

Oh, man, it was bull in a China shop.

He was come on punching and kicking it.

That's punch and kicks Punch and Kicks.

And what about spat on?

Now that seems a little bit undignified.

It's for televison.

That was the worst.

I can take a punch but it.

Oh it was awful.

And that's a little bit.

So luckily I turned and he got me on the side of the face.

But a guy was ticked off at me and I wanted to interview him.

There was going to be a sentencing in federal court.

It was on the courthouse steps of the what's now the Metzenbaum building, the federal courthouse.

And so he came around the corner.

His brother was going to be sentenced.

And but he didn't know his brother was going to jail.

So I said, he comes around.

Hey, can we talk to you, sir?

He says, Mr. Orlousky, go (*Expletive) yourself.

I said, no, I got a couple questions.

Go (*Expletive) yourself.

I asked him again and he said something I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't Thank you.

So he said something derogatory about me.

I.

So anyways, I said, hey, did you bring a toothbrush for your brother?

Cause I knew the brother was going.

You going into the prison?

he said, no didn't (spit sound) So there was a little bit of, Yeah.

I went straight home, took a shower, and the dry cleaner was next.

Well, a lot of nervous tension there.

Oh, yeah, it was.

It was not good.

Now you started out what your parents probably said.

What do you want to do?

You know, what's your goal?

And, starting out in Elmira, how what was some of the background?

Your dad?

Your mom?

What?

Your family.

How did they feel?

I'm the oldest of five.

My dad was a mechanical engineer World War two vet.

very, very straight shooters.

Right.

You know, an engineer, Army Air Corps?

Air corps Yeah.

Navigator on the B-24 Liberators.

So went to Europe.

Exactly.

North Africa and Italy.

Yeah.

And, I had a friend in high school and had a job on a radio station and so I said, how did you get that job?

And he said, well, you know, you got to get a license because you had to run the transmitter.

So I went up to the FCC, FCC license.

So I got the study book, I studied it, and we had to go up to Syracuse to take it.

So my dad took a day off to go up to Syracuse to take the test.

So he influenced, you.

Yeah, sure, sure.

So we got about half way up there and he says, no, you know this stuff.

Right?

And so I said, yeah, I think so.

But you get a second chance if you fail it.

Wrong thing to say to a mechanical engineer.

And he goes, you don't think we're coming up here twice, do you?

I siad no.

I got the book, I studied.

True.

and I passed.

So, right before my senior year in high school, I saw that disc jockey, Jesse Benson was his name.

And Jesse, I said, hey, how's it going at the radio station?

He says I going to quit.

I said, why are you going to quit?

Because I got drafted.

I'm going to Vietnam.

Well, I said, oh, gee, this is kind of brass of me.

But I said, you're care if I apply for your job.

He said, what do I care I'm going to Vietnam.

Yeah.

So I went up to the station.

The owner ripped off some wire copy, and I read it for him, even though I was going to be a DJ and he says, Is Joe your father?

And I said, yeah.

He goes, oh, we were friends in high school.

you start Saturday, $1.60 an hour.

Wow.

And I loved it, I loved it, and that, that was, I thought, like maybe some medical stuff.

I didn't probably not a doctor, but, you know, so, I started the radio station my senior year in high school, and I was a kid that wouldn't stand up in class and give a report.

I'd find a way to get out of it.

So this was bringing you out of your shell.

But you know what you're in a one room just talking to yourself and spinning records.

Thats true And so, So.

Yeah.

So that that broke the ice on it.

And then I went to school for the first year.

And after about because, you know, your parents expected, you know, my dad gone to college.

And so but my second year I'm a DJ on a bigger station now.

And then the news director came over to me and says, why are you going to college?

That's what you know.

That's what my parents expected.

And, you know, I just, you know, I want to do it.

I'm enjoying it.

He said, well, do you want to be a DJ?

And I said, yeah.

He said, well, what, are you going to college?

Why don't you quit?

Because you're not very good.

And and do it and do it and get better at it.

It's kind of discouraging.

Yeah, I, I was but then you transition into television.

What what he said was, city council meets on Monday night.

Why don't you try news?

You seemed like you got ahead on your shoulders.

Okay, so he went to city council, and I loved it.

Very good.

Now, I saw him at my mother's wake not long ago.

this year.

I said to him, you know, Tom I think the only reason you asked me to cover city council is that you were hard up for somebody to do it, to do city council.

And he goes, yeah, you're 100% right.

But you were a lousy disc jockey.

And so, so yeah, so and it just grew after they had a TV station.

Yeah.

And so then like my, my junior year in college, I was doing TV stuff for him and, just and in your book, you talked about going to Binghamton, which is a larger.

Yeah, larger city, upstate New York.

And, then you made your transition to Ohio and like you said, you had the connection because the Cleveland Browns were always big in the A job opend up in Youngstown And, boy that's close to Cleveland.

It is.

You know, now, we actually have many viewers in, you know, Western Pennsylvania and the Youngstown area.

So they probably recall you, what were some of the stories when you first moved to Cleveland?

and a bigger market, was probably the first or first major story that you covered.

You remember?

Probably the closing of the Cleveland Press Cleveland Press, the old newspaper.

Scripps Howard newspaper, 1982.

Yeah., Great paper we had a, Yeah.

We had a tip that it was going to close and we could not nail it down.

And so, the first night we were watching the other stations to make sure I was at channel five.

Nothing.

The next night we're watching and one of the camera guys had called back, say, hey, channel three, he's got a live truck over at, The Press.

Oh, boy, maybe it would be.

So we're there.

We're watching it.

No, they didn't have it either.

So right then, about ten after six, that's when Dorothy used to come through.

Dorthy Fuldheim to do her commentary.

So she went to she said to me, she goes, what's happening?

So I said, well, we keep hearing the Cleveland Press is going to close.

We can't, we can't nail it down.

Would you like me to find out?

Yeah.

And I said, yeah, that'd be great.

Yeah.

And you know, Dorothy being the way she was, she goes, get me a telephone.

So, we get her the telephone.

She called and she asked for her game.

Yeah.

She slams her fist down.

I must speak to him.

Somebody.

They're trying to put her out.

She say Herb.

It's Dorothy.

Is it true?

Yeah.

Thank you.

She looked at me and she said, it's true, you know, and we reported it.

She went out and ad libbed a two minute commentary.

It was phenomenal.

I miss those days.

Yeah, I remember when I was starting in radio, Herb Cam and Tim Taylor would do, the station at WDLK they did a, kind of a do all news program, in the morning.

The flip side of that is don't make Dorothy mad at you.

It's true.

I cut her commentary one day, and I went to work.

sat next to me.

Yeah.

And, Lou said, Orlo everybody calls me Orlo, you're in some trouble, I said what are you talking about Dorothy's looking for you.

I said, what are you talking about?

Is Dorothy.

She's down here.

She's spitting nail.

She is looking for you.

You know, I said, what's going on?

She goes, did you cut her last night?

And I said, yeah, yeah, I did.

I had to think about it because I'd done it a few times and I so he says completely.

And I said, yeah.

He goes, well she found out.

So I have to find out.

She doesn't, she doesn't want 11:00 news or 11:00 was tapes.

Yes.

she has some friends in town.

who?

They went out to dinner.

She went to bed, they watched the news and she wasn't on.

So, maybe I said, well, keep your eyes open.

So I don't know why I did this, but about 45 minutes later.

So he's typing his stuff for the 6:00, and I'm producing the 11:00 show, and he goes, Orlo she's here, I kick my chair back.

I don't know why I do what I want on all fours, because she was very short and the desk was enough to cover me.

And so Lou covered me perfectly.

He's says oh Mrs. Fuldheim, How are you?

Which one is the producer?

Oh, my.

Oh.

Mrs. Fuldheim, that's a pretty dress.

He was covering for me Very right.

Which one is the producer?

Yeah.

Oh, that's, And he didn't even say Orlo because everybody would know that's the big O.

So she.

So she goes, well, you tell the big O to come see me when he gets back or hes fired.

I never want to see her.

And she forgot.

So our guest, ladies and gentlemen, viewers of form 360 is Paul Orlousky I'm Bill Steven Saus, your host And we're talking about Paul's 50 plus years in broadcasting and in television journalism.

And his book is out available at, bookstores in Northeast Ohio.

And it's, Paul Orlousky’s book called Punch Kicked, Spat on, and sometimes Thanked memoirs of a Cleveland TV News reporter.

And, we were talking about some of the enlightening stories that you've got involved in the global outlook.

You covered the Demjanjuk trial.

Yes.

and the Jewish community and, of this area was very concerned because of Demjanjuk activity, as a during World War two for the Nazis.

Ivan the Terrible was his name.

Tell me how you you transition from the Cleveland market working on that case, and you got to go to Israel.

Well, I actually started covering Demjanjuk in Youngstown.

Well, at that time, it wasn't so much the Jewish connection as it was the ethnicity.

The Ukrainian, truly, yes.

There's a lot of interest in Youngstown, Eastern European.

Yeah, exactly.

So I had covered it quite a bit of it in Youngstown.

And then moving to Cleveland was just kind of a natural that I transitioned into.

Then I started at channel five as a producer, but I wanted to be on the air.

It had to be had to work your way in.

And there were some very talented people there at that time.

But it was one of my ways to because I knew all about Demjanjuk.

And so, you know, we, I continued to cover that.

And, you know, I, never talked to him.

I confronted him one time way late in, in the game.

And, but I did talk to the son in law who was prime defenders, and we talked to the the Jewish people as well.

I don't know that I ever came to a clear conclusion on it.

I think there's a there's a book out about the Demjanjuk case that, I forgot who wrote it now, but it's called “The Right Wrong Man.” Well, the character of Ivan the Terrible, I think.

I think maybe as an accumulation of stories.

Right.

I can't prove that either.

But it became bigger and bigger than life.

I'm at Sobibor today.

I got to catch a train and go to Treblinka tomorrow.

And then im going down to (Inaudible) And, Yeah.

So I don't have the answer.

But The Right Wrong Man strikes a chord with me.

Yeah, well, that's a good, a good way of looking at that.

Yeah, but you did get to go to Israel.

Yeah.

And that was, you know, usually a local, you know, local original reporter doesn't get to travel overseas.

That's usually for the network.

Sure.

For the network guy over there was doing something else, and so they sent me over.

But I think I covered it for the network.

For the NBC network.

Well, and, that makes it.

Yeah.

And so, you know, I had an Israeli crew, which was good because they, they knew the lay of the land and, but, it was, it was admittedly you.

Yeah, it was a show trial on purpose because they never forget.

We've heard that so many times.

Never forget, you know, a Jewish mantra.

And, which they should never forget.

But, it was in an arena theater with classrooms and was feeds to it, and it was studied by the whole generation of children who are now adults, adults at least adult, probably 45 or 50.

Yeah.

It made it made the networks.

And it's still it's still people still go back.

And every time we hear about, foreign nationals coming over unvetted and, that was a case where, you know, that could have been the problem.

They didn't really know.

The FBI didn't know who, and he probably was the reason he was deported.

There were so many hearings, and we started when we started covering a Youngstown, you know, there was the the denaturalization, and then there had to be the deportation.

Right.

So many steps.

But, you know, he was deported for lying on a citizenship that was his I don't think there's any deny he was in the military forces over there.

so that was a lie, right?

And off he went.

So that caught.

I always felt bad for the family because if they if he was Ivan the Terrible, they didn't know it and never believed it.

Right.

And they were in, suburban Cleveland, you know, Seven Hills.

And he worked Seven hills and he was an auto worker.

Yeah.

At the time.

Yeah.

there was another local story that really, tear jerker was the story of Amy Mihajlovic.

Oh, boy.

I live in that town.

You lived near Amy's family, and, she was, never found.

No.

And, tell us a little bit about how matter fact, one of my old colleagues, Steve Poland, who worked for PBS Western Reserve in, 45,49 when we were younger, he, he was there with you.

And there was that incident with the chief of police.

It's in your book.

tell them what happened.

in that one when you had a young reporter that was, Oh, we talked to the chief of police.

Thats true My Big Mouth.

Yeah, it was called.

Yeah, my big mouth.

In your story, it should be.

Yeah, but you mention that's what I call.

You mentioned the the famous Sam Shepard story that the fugitive.

Yeah.

Amy was missing on a Friday.

Right.

And, we got a call from the next door neighbor of my house, and we actually went with it before the police typically wait for the police to say, do it.

Sure.

Yeah.

This guy called, one of my camera guys and said, no, this is, this is.

And so we went with it.

And, so the next morning everybody's out there doing this.

So I saw this young reporter, who had didn't have much experience.

Now Steve did.

So I pull over, I see the live truck, and I pulled over and said, hey did they find her?

What's going on?

Yeah, no, they have it.

I said, oh boy.

I said, you know, nothing happens here.

He said, Bay Village police, now Steve got it because he's been around I said Bay village police.

I said two cases that ever happened here.

Sam Shepard and this.

And I can't solve either one.

It was a joke.

So I get a call in the afternoon from Steve.

He goes, you won't believe what she did.

That's.

What are you talking about?

We went to talk to the chief of police, and she starts her questioning with chief Paul Orlousky.

Says, you've only had two serious crimes here and you haven't been able to solve one.

So that was a bad.

So.

So he says, he says, oh, is that interesting?

Really?

So Monday I call the chief.

He goes, oh, Paul Orlousky.

Yeah, the famous crime fighter.

would you solve this for us?

Oh boy.

He for ten.

And, it was Bill Garrow later became the clerk reports in Rocky River.

He busted my chops for probably the next 12 years.

Rightly so.

And you had, you knew Dennis Kucinich.

You worked with Dennis, you know, following his career.

Oh, yeah.

And Dennis and he you have, quite a bit of information on one thing I said in there.

I wrote it before he ran for mayor, was I. I don't know if Dennis's career is over yet, but Dennis will decide when it's over.

And would you?

Because, you know, I really for such a young man, I thought, Dennis.

And this is Paul's opinion that, anything Dennis ever told me, I thought he was becoming mayor again would have taken him full circle.

Vindication.

Paul's view.

And it he he covered everything and went to Washington.

Came back?

Yeah.

but he was a he he brought a lot of attention to Cleveland politics.

Yeah, exactly.

And then and then Congressman Traficant former sheriff's Mahoning county.

He wasn't even that.

I was down there, Jim Traficant I was the anchorman.

Yeah.

And he was the head of a drug reduction agency or something like that.

And he decided he's going to run for sheriff.

Well, the Democratic Party, Don Hanna, he had picked out somebody else to run for sheriff.

Right.

So he said, well, I'm gonna run against him in the primary, which was unheard of on the Democratic side of things, even in the Mahoning Valley.

And so Traficant ran and he won.

So that night we have Hanna and Traficant on the news set.

and so Traficant was a little late.

It was the lead story.

Traficant came in with a big stick.

And the movie Walking Tall was real big bang.

Yeah, right.

And so he's got this stick Buford Pusser had in the movie.

Exactly.

And he's got this big stick and he comes in and I got him on both sides.

And now they get calling and they're like, well, let me tell you something, Traficant.

Let me tell you something, Hannah.

And he takes the stick and goes, and there's a new sheriff in town.

I was completely out of control.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Now, usually, it happens sometimes.

You see, your family get involved.

You've got your wife, Kim, involved in a couple of really interesting cases.

tell us about.

Kim's undercover with you.

Oh, boy.

the chiropracto?

Chiropractor case Okay, well, we needed this.

Chiropractor was allegedly a pill pusher, right?

He was later just got his license revoked, but he was a pill pusher, supposedly.

So we took a camera guy who was in phenomenal shape.

Yeah, nothing wrong with him.

Had him checked out.

Physical?

Sure.

Nothing wrong with his back.

So we sent him into this guy.

Oh, boy.

You got back problems.

And so he was doing this and that.

Well, we have somebody carry the camera.

So my wife had a purse, so I say do this for me, which she did.

So she's got the purse and she's getting the video and the doctor says, all right, you're going to take your clothes off to the camera guy who she's never met before.

And so she they figured a way to get out of it.

But boy, she was what it was.

She was spitting nails, much like Dorothy was earlier when she when they came out of their office.

What do you get into involved in?

Yeah, exactly.

you talk about your videographers.

Steve, we talked about.

How about Marty and some of the other ones.

You talked about Livingston, but.

Yeah.

Marty.

Marty and I work together for probably 21 years, just almost every day.

And, you know, you get to know one another's moves.

the one picture of the guy pointing, he, the story.

He owned a gun shop.

So somebody had bought a gun there and done a crime.

So we went in to see what's going on with this, you know?

Could you tell me anything about the guy?

Well, he thought we were there to do something about Something about him.

So I go to the counter, and I saw a guy in the back, and that's got to be him, but I.

The guy says he's not here.

I give him my card.

Well, in the meantime, the guy went and was attacking the camera guy.

So I went over there and we're at the door and we're pushing and shoving, and he pushes me out the door.

And that's what you probably will see in a picture that I had that I have.

He missed a good opportunity, though, because, you know, I'm all jazzed up at that time we'd gone back and forth if, if there's I recall the tape, I said, the last thing I said was, you think you're talking to some kind of an idiot?

And he just said, get out.

He should’ve said, yes, I'll tell you.

That's one thing about being a field reporter out in the field.

you know, you, worked on cases and stories that you thought were important.

You brought it to the attention of Ohio.

you worked for, you know, not only, channel five, but you work for channel three, 19, 14 and 43.

Paul Orlousky I couldn't imagine after I picked up this book how how it brought so many stories and so many, information.

there quick too you read for ten minutes and come back to.

It's a different story.

I was amazed, the pictures and we'll see some of them on on our our program today.

But the pictures are outstanding.

And, we thank you for being a part of the forum.

360 we hope that you your book will be read by many.

Yeah.

And, thank you for being a part of.

Thanks for having us for 360.

Thank you folks.

Thanks, Paul Orlousky.

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