♪♪ The Sacramento Observer has been a pillar of our community for 60 years.

Publisher Larry Lee joins us today to talk about this institution's storied history and its future in the digital era.

Larry, what does this milestone mean to you?

Well, Scott, thanks for having me on.

Uh, this is a real special opportunity, I think, for us to really, um, step back and, uh, celebrate and recognize the accomplishments that we've had as a news organization that has been around for 60 years, um, also, really, to kind of, um, not just reflect on that history, but to build on it.

Um, you know, we have been, uh, really, a leader in the Black press and, you know, I'm really trying to continue to build on that, uh, legacy that we've had.

So, it's a really exciting period of time.

Uh, we'll celebrate in grand fashion, uh, throughout the year, but, uh, we're really excited about, um, you know, really just taking this moment to pause, reflect on what we've gone through, uh, and really build on what we've... what we've done in the past, and... and looking forward to the future.

What is the relevance of a newspaper like the Observer in an era dominated by social media?

And now, we've even got A.I., uh, curated intelligence that... that's bringing our news to us.

Well, I think the first thing that I would say, and I'll simplify it with one word, uh, which is "trust."

I think the, um- You know, when you look at, uh, news in general, uh, there's constant, uh, concerns about how people are consuming news and information and that people just don't trust news, uh, in a... in a lot of the ways in which they're consuming.

The thing that differentiates an organization like the Observer is that we have been doing the work here in Sacramento since 1962.

We're a trusted source.

People, if... if you've been in Sacramento for any period of time, you knew my parents.

You knew me.

Uh, you've known the work that, uh, we've been doing in this community.

And... and it's always been for the betterment, for uplifting the African American voice and the African American experience and the conditions of African Americans.

So, people know that they can trust what we're saying, what we're... what we're reporting on, know that we're, um, challenging those that need to be challenged, knowing that we're uplifting those that often go, uh, unheard and... and unspoken.

So, um, you know, the... the tools of social media, uh, A.I., video, all these things, they're really just tools that are out there.

And... and really- Uh, you know, it really comes back to the messenger, and that's what the Observer is.

It's a credible, trusted messenger that has been doing, uh, work with excellence proudly and unapologetically for the African American community for 60 years.

You know, you mentioned your parents just a moment ago.

- Sure.

- Take us back to the beginning.

How did the Observer come into being, in the first place?

OK, so, the Observer is older than I am, so I can't...

I can't be- I...

I...

I wasn't there at the beginning, but I'll tell you.

- I'm sure you've heard a story.

Yes, I've heard a story or two.

So, yeah, the Observer, um, you know, in... in- If you imagine Sacramento in 1962, there were about, uh, um, about 15,000, uh, African Americans, roughly, in the area.

Uh, my dad, who went to Grant High School, my mom, uh, went to McClatchy.

Uh, and so, they were... they were residents here in Sacramento and they were active in the African American community, civically, um, and... and somewhat politically, and... and my dad, definitely, in the business space, as being a real estate, um, sales, uh, salesperson.

And so, um- But the voice of the African American community was often going unheard.

Uh, you wouldn't see anything about our lives, uh, you know, unless it was negative.

And at that time, you had the Sacramento Union and the Sacramento Bee, um, and... and on television, there was no, uh, no real mention of our experience.

So, there was a... a... a publication that preceded the Observer called the Sacramento Outlook.

Uh, it did not publish with regularity.

It was mostly run by a... a religious leader, Reverend J.T.

Muse.

Uh, and my dad and... and six others purchased the Outlook.

Uh, they did one publication together and realized that, uh, they got themselves into something that they didn't really know what they were getting into.

So, my father, uh, Gino Gladden and John Cole, two local business, uh, business people here in the community, uh, decided to start The Sacramento Observer in... in Thanksgiving week of 1962.

Um, I often teased my dad, uh, you know, they did not know that, you know, 50, 60 years later, uh- particularly in my dad's case- he'd still be running a... a newspaper.

Um, but that's where it started.

Gino Gladden unfortunately passed away very unexpectedly and early.

John Cole was a serial, uh, entrepreneur.

And so, if you knew John Cole, you knew he'd be doing a business, uh, in one year and two years later, he'd start another business.

So, uh, the- staying in the newspaper business was not, uh, in his calling, and it really fell on the responsibilities of my dad, um, William Lee, and my mom, Kathryn Lee, uh, as being kind of the caretakers and the... and the runners of that publication.

Um, very early, it was really challenging.

They didn't really know a lot about, uh, not just, uh, journalism, but the business side of... of keeping a... a publication in business.

So, fortunately, my dad, who was very successful in real estate, uh, was able to kind of keep the... the doors of the newspaper open with the resources from the... from the, uh, real estate, um, industry.

But, uh, he really quickly dove into, um, the art of the Black press.

And the Black press is nearly 200 years old.

There's about 200 Black newspapers across the country.

And he started to learn from many of his predecessors, people who ran, uh, you know, historic publications like the Chicago Defender, uh, Saint Louis American, the, you know, uh, the Michigan Chronicle, lots of- uh, New York Amsterdam News, lots of those historic Black newspapers.

Um, and he learned very quickly and, within ten years of starting the paper, uh, the Observer was named the nation's best Black newspaper... - Wow.

- ...which we would come to be named "the best Black newspaper" six times.

Wow.

You know, I...

I'm curious about- Thank you for sharing that.

Uh, I'm curious about something though.

Sacramento, as a region, is a much larger, uh, media market for the Hispanic and AAPI communities.

And you mentioned that at the time that the Observer started, there were about 15,000 African Americans in Sacramento.

To this day, African Americans are a smaller part of the population of our region than... than they are nationally.

And yet, we have a Black newspaper here that has continued for 60 years and those other populations have not.

What do you think explains the... the ability to survive and thrive for the Observer all these years in Sacramento, when, really, the population is fairly small?

Yeah.

I mean, Sacramento is not what you would call a- what... what we would call a "chocolate city," where there's a lot of African Americans here, although Sacramento does have, uh, you know, a unique distinction in the state of California.

It's really been the only, uh, community over the last 40 years that has had consistent African American growth.

Over the last 40 years, you know, our population has grown by 250%, um, to about 160,000 African Americans.

But I think the... the thing that you're asking about, the... the, uh- kind of that magic, um, potion, uh, special cocktail that... that allows us to thrive.

You know, I'll be...

I'll be honest- and I'll... and I'll try and say this as humbly as possible.

Um, my dad was a legend.

Uh, he was exceptional.

He was the dean of the Black press in the West.

Um, he really, uh... really, uh, not just learned, but was able to share and evolve in ways that a lot of publishers, uh, Black, White, or otherwise, just are not able to do.

Um, and I think that that is part of why I'm here, uh, to be honest, is because I...

I think he recognized in me very early, um, about my, uh, desires and intentions to be involved with, um, you know, with the Observer and the work that we did.

As a young person, I...

I loved, um, really seeing and being involved with the paper.

Uh, so, you know, I...

I, um, came back in 1997 and the fact that I've been here as long as I have, to be honest, sometimes, uh, uh, blows me away.

But I think, as an organization, we've always tried to be very, uh, innovative, we've always challenged ourselves.

I remember my dad saying things like, you know, if- uh, "We could do it the easy way, but we're not going to because somebody else could do it the easy way.

We're going to do it the hard way."

Um, and so, we would, you know, always do things that were just, you know, just a little bit outside of the box and really challenging, uh, our newsroom and challenging our... our... our learnings about, you know, reaching our audience, growing our audience and doing it from a way- and I think this is the other part of it, too- doing it from a... a sense of service.

I think we've always recognized that the Observer, while it is a business, um, and while there are, uh, other institutions that really deal and address with the emotional, uh, needs of our communities, we recognize that the Observer does have a unique sense of serving our community, um, and... and so we always try to lean in and listen to our community and really try and do our work based off of their needs.

Well, I...

I want to talk a little bit more about that in the context, Larry, of your survival, because the... the Observer is celebrating its 60th anniversary this year, and you're continuing to move forward and evolve and change.

And at the same time, the newspaper industry, nationally, has, uh, really gone through maybe its darkest hour... - Sure.

- ...in history, and is still going through that with major publications folding, going, uh, insolvent, um, you know, essentially, uh, ceasing publishing, except on a very sort of scattered, um, you know, timeframe.

And yet, the, uh, the Observer is continuing on.

What lessons- and... and I really want to get specific on this.

What lessons or mus- uh, did you all learn, or muscles did you all develop because you've had to be scrappier... - Sure.

- ...that prepared you in maybe a way that our dominant mainstream papers weren't?

Uh, that's really insightful, Scott.

I mean, I think that is really, uh, the core of where we are today for... for the organization.

Um, you know, again, I mentioned I came back in... in 1997.

Uh, it's- You know, running a Black-owned anything is challenging, um, uh, any sort of business, uh, organization, nonprofit, service... service, uh, organization, church, they're... they're just challenging because people often undervalue our community, undervalue our voice, uh, undervalue our needs.

Um, and so... so, that... that is a challenge, first of all, right?

So, uh, so, you're right.

There are certain muscles, um, uh, that you develop, certain amount of metal that you create, um, and armor that you put on, uh, that, uh, allows you to do the work of serving the African American community, no matter what industry you're in.

Then, you throw in the newspaper and media industry.

Um, when I came back in 1997, I came back- I went to San Jose State.

I was in the midst of... of, you know, all of the Silicon Valley growth and... and the technological explosions that were going on in the South Bay.

And so, I was very aware and... and in tune with, you know, technology and how it can serve and, uh, and how we can use it to... to build audience.

And so, we came- I came back with a... a great energy and... and really doing a lot of that work.

But then you had the early 2000s, where newspapers, uh, were really- and... and- were really challenged and it didn't matter what kind of newspaper you were in.

They were all being, um- We were all being challenged with, uh, you know, social media, technology and... and websites.

And... and so, we went through, uh- At that point, in my perspective, uh, was really the darkest times, the early 2000s, because, um, you know, the... the, uh, advertising budgets and the historical model of advertising through newspapers was getting blown up and destroyed.

Um, and so, during- it was during that time when I really, uh, really had to lean in and get my hands dirty on trying to not just, um- really almost just trying to get from week to week.

Um, and I think what, um- You know, then, as I... as I progressed as- uh, through the organization as- and as a leader, um, you know, I was really focused on, uh, the... the transition of my parents, uh, as they passed on and beginning to develop this... this sheet of, you know, things that I wanted to do as a... as a vision for our organization.

Um, and a lot of it was, um, making sure that we honored and recognized the legacy and the foundation that we have, which is a print product, but then kind of retooling and reeval... reevaluating it.

Uh, so, we've done some amazing things over the last few years with, um, refining the... the amount of resources that we spend on that print product and kind of doing this dual transformation of, you know, the newspaper and the digital, um, sort of, uh, content.

And it's been really, uh- We've been very blessed, I think, in... in this moment of, uh, post-COVID, which... which is the- kind of the other time marker that I... that I'll say.

And... and... and I...

I'll use 2020 as kind of being the signature year.

You had, obviously, COVID.

You had the killing of George Floyd.

You had, um, you know, this... this, uh- and not just George Floyd, but many- Brianna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery and all of those.

So, you had this social, uh, unrest, um, and then you also had, you know, a very polarized political climate.

And I think that what people recognized during that period was it was less about, um, you know, these tools that might get to people in the masses, but- coming back to your original question- about trust, finding those trusted organizations that had been in the community and doing the work.

And we were- In this special moment, we were also developing more technology.

And, you know, it's just been- it's been amazing.

So, during COVID, more than 300 newspapers went out of business.

16- More than 6,000 journalists have lost their jobs.

Our story is we've tripled the size of our newsroom, tripled revenue, um, and are on a... on a path of sustainability and growth that is almost unprecedented in the Black press.

I...

I...

I...

I got to ask you about that, because you have spoken before, in the past about how difficult it is within this region to get advertising dollars that really do have a place, uh, with the Observer.

And as a matter of fact, I'm going to go back to one of your examples before, um, which is on health care.

During open enrollment, uh, African Americans may be a lower percentage of the Sacramento population than they are nationally, but they are a quantum, uh, larger percentage of the population of state employees... - Right.

- Yet, when open enrollment happens and the big health plans and hospital systems are all vying for patients, typically, when the Observer has gone to try and capture some of those advertising dollars- because those are high paying, full premium patients- those health systems and health care plans direct you over to the charitable parts of their organization rather than sales and marketing.

It's like they don't take you seriously.

Speak to me about how it is that, um, that takes place and what it is that- whether that sort of backward thinking is still in existence within your, uh, business climate.

Sure.

So, I think, big picture, um, the... the... the... the real challenge with a lot of, you know, advertising and... and how it's, uh... how it's, uh, executed in our space, uh, really relies on, uh, advertising agencies, um, that oftentimes are representing their clients.

Um, and so, the challenge is educating advertising agencies about the importance of, um, using, uh, alternative forms of media and... and... and things that are not, uh, easy to do.

And I say "easy to do."

It's easy for an advertising agency or a client to place, uh, what they call programmatic advertising, those ads that you see on your phone because you went to this website and then... then you go to another website and it pops up on your phone because they... they followed, you know, how you were... how you were visiting.

Um, so, it's easy for agencies to do that.

Uh, the... the challenge is getting those agencies to understand and recognize that a, um, client that they may have, uh, might have a very specific brand purpose, uh, that they want to reach a specific audience.

And... and I'll...

I'll use, again, this kind of- this... this post, um, George Floyd era, where there was a lot of, um, corporations that spoke very clearly about, "We want to make sure that we are investing more in the African American community.

We're going to, uh, increase our... our advertising."

- But did they do it?

Well, that's where I'm headed.

Right?

- Well, no.

Well... well, let's get there.

Did they do it?

So... so, no, they haven't done it.

Now, in some instances, some corporations have, and then- and it's been incremental.

They may have gone from 2% advertising with minority media to 3%.

Um, it is... it is... it is a- uh, something that is very difficult for them to do if they are not committed to it.

The reality is they have to be committed to it as an organization, and then tell the agency that the agency- - But I want to get...

But I want to get back to the original thing that you've discussed before, in the past.

If... if a bonafide advertiser that's advertising in a mainstream publication and spends marketing and advertising dollars over there to reach a target market, and you reach their target market, and they look at spending with you as a philanthropic contribution that comes out of their charity budget... - It's not the same thing.

- ...they're not taking you seriously.

That's what you've said before.

- Absolutely.

- OK, so... so, is that still the same, post-George Floyd, as it was before?

It absolutely is still the same.

Absolutely, because- So, what are you going to do about it?

Ha!

Well, so, the... so, the reality is... is, again, back to the educating the agencies.

And to... and to be honest, really, Scott- and... and, you know, and the best way I can say this- advertising agencies, in general, uh, do not look like America.

Uh, they do not represent the diversity that America is.

Um, and so, what often happens is they spend with who looks like them.

Right?

And so, that's where the challenge is.

Um, and so, until we can, uh, really get ad- hold ad agencies accountable- Um, and some- You know, there's some, um, you know, people in my industry, uh, people like Byron Allen who've been calling out ad agencies and corporations.

Byron Allen sues a different, uh, company every... every six months.

- Right.

Let me ask... let me ask you this, Larry.

- Mmhmm.

To go back to the population thing, if the percentage of the African American population in Sacramento was similar to Washington, DC or Chicago, could those same advertising agencies get away with that behavior?

Um, they do, unfortunately.

And... and with my peers in DC, Detroit, Chicago, they undervalue- It comes back to this original conversation that I... that I- this point that I brought up about them undervaluing our voice, undervaluing our purpose.

And, uh, that's what- When... when we talk about the... the- you know, 2020, there was... there was, uh, you know, some shoulder shaking, where people just had to listen to us.

Um, that has to continue.

We have to have, uh, uh, you know, consistent pressure, uh, persistent, um, you know, agitation, uh, with... with these, uh, corporations and... and the like, to make them- make sure that they listen to us.

Let... let's, uh, talk a little bit about, uh, the future.

Uh, partnership and collaboration seem to be a very strong part of your operating style.

- Yeah.

- What relationships, um, have you developed that are important to the... the... the future that you've described earlier for the Observer, within our region and beyond?

Well, I...

I live my life, I feel like, by- There's an African proverb, "If you want to go fast, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together."

Um, and, uh, you know, it's in that spirit that, uh, I've always really tried to- and I...

I learned this from my parents- but always tried to, um, to move our... our... our work forward.

So, uh, over the last, um, uh, couple years, I've been able to partner with, uh, nine other Black newspapers across the country.

We launched a brand called Word in Black and, basically, what we do is we're- uh, we've been able to develop, uh, uh, really, a media brand that is amplifying the work of these ten Black newspapers in these ten communities throughout the country.

Uh, and it's in cities, you know, throughout- in every major, uh, city throughout the, uh, throughout the country.

Uh, over the year- over the last two years, uh, we've been able to raise millions of dollars, uh, in both advertising, branded content partnerships, um, and... and... and philan... philanthropy, uh, to help us, um, really build a newsroom.

We have nine staff reporters with Word in Black, not to mention, um, the... the other organizations, themselves, have been also providing content.

We've got more than 50,000 unique, uh, subscribers to a newsletter.

So, that's one area that we've, uh, been a part of at the national level.

And then, locally, uh, we also were able to bring together, um, a collaboration, which is very challenging in... in your local market, uh, called, uh, Solving Sacramento, um, that has allowed us to, uh, work with organizations like, uh, Cap... Capital Public Radio, the Business Journal, News Review, Outward Magazine and others, to really help, um, amplify, uh, specific needs in our community.

And right now, we're... we're really focused on affordable housing stories.

Um, and so, we're... we're- I think collaboration is really important.

Um, you know, you learn a lot when you're working with those that you don't normally get to work with.

Um, and so, I think that that, uh, provides a really great opportunity for us to... to have industry learnings and to build, uh, you know, what we feel is, um- and... and serve our community in ways that we weren't able to do before.

And I think that we're going to have to leave it there.

Uh, uh, much success to you and the Observer, and congratulations on 60 Years.

Thank you, Scott, for having me.

All right.

And that's our show.

Thanks to our guest and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento.

I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪ All episodes of Studio Sacramento, along with other KVIE programs, are available to watch online at kvie.org/video.