>> He was unopposed in the Democratic primary for governor.

Now he's officially the party's nominee.

We'll discuss the general election with Rob Sand on this edition of Iowa Press.

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>> [MUSIC] >> For decades >> [MUSIC], >> Iowa Press has brought you political leaders and newsmakers from across Iowa and beyond.

Celebrating more than 50 years on statewide Iowa PBS.

This is the Friday, June 5th edition of Iowa Press.

Here is Kay Henderson.

>> Our guest on this week's Iowa Press has been at the Iowa press table before.

He's a native of Decorah.

He was an assistant attorney general.

He has been the state auditor since 2019.

And as of Tuesday night, he is the Iowa Democratic Party's nominee for governor.

Rob Sand, welcome back to Iowa Press.

>> Thanks for having me, Kay.

>> Also joining our conversation today is Brianne Pfannenstiel Xi is chief politics reporter for the Des Moines Register.

>> Republicans this week have nominated Zach Lahn for governor.

He is also casting himself as a bit of an outsider, just like you are.

He touches on notes of economic populism, some themes that you touch on as well on the campaign trail.

What's the biggest contrast that you want voters to see between the two of you going into this general election?

>> I'm very excited for Iowans to get to know him.

Kansas is, in fact, outside of Iowa, so that seems to be fair.

This is a guy who I just want to I want to use the words that were his words that he used when he talked to the Des Moines Register.

He said if elected governor, he'll change his living situation.

To be in Iowa as much as humanly possible.

Most of us just live here.

The idea, I feel like when people say, I'm going to do something as much as humanly possible, it's always sort of like, you know, we'll see how it goes.

So I think, look, I don't know why he's not running in Kansas for governor.

Iowans deserve a full time governor.

This is a big job.

We need to have somebody who knows this state, who's been across this state.

I do 100 town halls every year.

I'm going to be here.

>> And for Iowans watching who might not know, we're talking about Zach Lahn flying between Iowa and Kansas, where some of he and his wife have children who are based.

Is this going to be a theme of the campaign trail, and how are you going to kind of keep keep the message that you've been having of being, you know a nonpartisan being better, truer, and not kind of getting into the mudslinging?

How are you going to keep that?

>> These are facts.

I've always told people the facts.

I spent seven years as a prosecutor asking Iowans on a jury to put people in prison for something that they did.

I told them the truth.

I asked them to take an action in that they thought was the right thing to do in that situation.

I have never shied away from telling people the truth about the choices in front of them.

And that's a very simple thing to do.

We can do that in a way that is factual and clear.

>> And in in the final days of the primary cycle, Zach Lahn was drawing big crowds.

He's really energizing the Republican base.

Is he going to be a tougher opponent for you than perhaps Randy Feenstra would have been had he been the nominee?

>> No.

>> What makes you think so?

>> He lives in Kansas.

>> Zach Lahn and other Republicans are saying that you present yourself as a moderate, but you aren't really a moderate.

You're a radical leftist.

What's going to be your Perry to that?

>> I wish they would tell everybody that I have actually more Iowa Republican donors than any of the Republicans that were running against me.

I wish they would tell everybody that people from within the Republican Party had been complimenting my candidacy and complimenting our message since I launched last May.

I wish they would remind everybody that we are 48th for personal income growth average over the last three years.

We are number one for cancer growth, and what has brought us here has been ten years of one party control, where they have been looking at the situation, not addressing those issues, but figuring out how do we make it harder for the state auditor's office to find misspent money.

And my opponent is a guy who's going to say, the answer to that is four more years of one party control.

And he's actually, as a political operative, worked to elect some of the people who voted to gut the auditor's office.

>> There are almost 200,000 more registered Republicans in Iowa than Democrats, and there are more independent or no party voters than Democrats in Iowa.

Isn't this going to be an uphill climb for a Democratic nominee.

>> This state has voted for President Trump three times, and each time after that, they voted for me.

I think Iowans like to support someone that's an actual human being.

They are themselves.

They're not a politician.

I think that when the choice is clear that it's someone who's spent two years as an auditor, excuse me, two terms as an auditor and seven years as a prosecutor versus someone who's career has been working for dark money organizations.

They're going to see the difference.

And I think they want somebody that knows their communities.

I do 100 public town halls every single year.

I don't like the two choice system.

We've talked about that so many times at this table.

I think it's broken and they're going to try to be out there convincing people, hey, our private club is better than the other private club.

I'm going to be over here saying, why are there two private clubs that have special legal privileges in our democracy anyway?

Neither the Democratic or Republican parties do a very good job of solving our problems.

We should put Iowans in charge of our democracy, not these two private clubs.

And I think that's actually more reflective of most Iowans desires.

They may have been voting for Republican politicians, but I don't think that most people are in love with either party.

I know I'm not.

And I think that's part of the reason that we have so many Republican supporters is because when we're willing to plant a flag and say, hey, this isn't working, politicians are focused too much on getting elected and not enough on solving your problems.

A lot of people say, sign me up.

>> As we move into the general election, I think voters are interested to know who your running mate is going to be.

I know that you've said you don't plan to name names ahead of time, but what insight can you give to people as as they think about who this is going to be?

What kind of qualities are you looking for, and what do you hope to signal to voters with this pick?

>> It'll be someone I trust.

>> Is that the most important issue and why so >> Yeah, it's not a political thing.

It's who do you look at?

And you go, and who do you know who you could talk to?

And you just get a sense of like, this person is exactly who they say they are.

>> Going back to the early 90s, there's been a woman on nearly every gubernatorial ticket since then.

Do you think Iowa Democrats expect a woman?

>> I don't know, you'd have to ask them.

>> Moving on to an issue, and actually two issues that have been linked for the past year, even before that, water quality and cancer.

How will you tell voters that you're resolving those two issues?

>> Well, we have a plan.

I'd encourage everybody to go to Rob Sand .com.

You're going to see detailed plans on a lot of things government reform, ethics reform, political reform, water quality and cancer.

We shouldn't be giving immunity to pesticide manufacturers.

I think that's clear.

But in addition to that, I've actually got a water quality, a specific plan.

I spent the better part of a year putting a lot of time into talking to people from across the political spectrum.

And I bet I sat at this table and I said I wanted to be both achievable and effective.

We have a plan that will be achievable and effective.

I want to see the single biggest expansion of wetlands that we've ever seen in Iowa.

These prairie potholes are better than anything else in filtering water, and they don't require maintenance.

So once you've got that wetland there, it's not like bioreactors are okay and that your field stuff is good, but you have to continually redo it more often than you would have to touch a wetland.

I think we also need to expand the Working lands program that we've been using to take low CSR land and help farmers turn that into grazing land.

It's been a pilot program.

It's been really popular and effective.

If we do that in a big way, then I think we can have a tremendous difference in our water quality.

And for that piece of the cancer crisis that stems from our water quality issues, we can have an impact.

>> You've also suggested some tax incentives to farmers who voluntarily make changes on their farms about nitrates.

Your opponent says that Iowans have been lied to by the big ag companies.

Do you agree that Iowans have been misled?

And when I say Iowans, I mean farmers.

>> I'm I'm I find it very alarming that the foundational study around glyphosate was just retracted within the last six months.

I think everybody should find that alarming.

>> You've said that we should regulate and tax marijuana as one of the ways to address Iowa's, quote, ticking time bomb of a budget.

How much should we expect to actually make in those taxes?

And would it be enough to address that issue >> It's not going to cover 100% of the deficit, because this deficit is massive.

It is a record deficit, $1.3 billion every year on a budget that overall is about a little over 9 billion.

So this is a huge piece of our budget that we're missing.

This can generate hundreds of millions of dollars.

It's not going to cover the whole thing, but it is something that is among the very best things that we can do to fix that budget deficit.

The other two things that I would suggest.

Number one, we created a pie program in the auditor's office to help local governments save money that should become mandatory so that we can keep downward pressure while maintaining services at the local level and help those folks need less money from the state, which helps the state's budget.

Number two, we shouldn't be giving private school vouchers to the wealthiest families in the state of Iowa who are already sending their kids to private school anyway, and making no sacrifice financially in order to do so.

We have a budget that's upside down, and we are paying people to do a thing they were going to do anyway.

That makes no fiscal sense whatsoever.

>> So what is the income cut off you would suggest?

>> I'm open to a conversation on that.

I would start at the same level that they had this at for the first year.

>> Moving on to something that happened this past year, Governor Reynolds signed a property tax bill that the legislature produced this year.

Would you, as governor, seek any adjustments in that law or offer any more property tax limitations?

>> Great question.

If anyone out there wants to hear me, go for a very long time and put you to sleep tonight on property taxes, you can Google Rob Sand Dickinson County Taxpayers Association and watch me talk for half an hour about property taxes.

I don't think you want me to do that and have this be the last question, so I won't do it right now.

That Bill got written and passed in a matter of hours Most of the people, I would wager, who voted for it aren't quite sure what it's going to do.

I think anyone who would sit here today and say, this is exactly what we need to do on property taxes, is being more of a politician than they are a public servant.

A public servant is willing to say a thing like, we need to know where we are before we decide what direction to go in, right?

That might sound conservative to you.

That is my view on this.

The dust needs to settle.

We need to understand exactly what the impacts are going to be of this property tax bill, and we can figure out what happens after that.

>> One of the elements that was in the Senate Republicans plan at the very beginning was an increase in the gas tax that would regenerate every year under certain conditions, gave the legislature veto power over an increase annually as a way to help cities and counties deal with crumbling roads and bridges.

Is that something that you, as governor, would address?

The state of Iowa's transportation system through a gas tax?

>> You know, we're looking at a situation right now where the price of gas has skyrocketed due to the war in Iran.

I really hesitate to say that that's a move in the right direction in these circumstances.

>> Eminent domain was another major issue going into the last legislative session.

Nothing got passed on that particular issue.

Well, the next governor have a role in discussing that, or will the pipeline begin construction and make make the issue moot for the legislature >> I can only tell you what I believe.

I think that we should not be doing eminent domain for carbon capture pipelines.

We need to be supportive of Iowa agriculture and ethanol.

There are other ways to make sure that we are doing that.

Everybody knows the expression you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Well, if the only thing that we are doing to reduce the carbon intensity and the sustainability and improve the sustainability of ethanol is all of our eggs in that basket, what happens if those tax credits go away?

There are people in both political parties who do not like those tax credits, and that pipeline is only working.

Only pencils out because of those tax credits.

Now, I want to be clear, building it without eminent domain is a good idea.

I'm not opposed to that.

I think it is a good solution.

But I also think that we need to be making sure we're thinking about other ways that we are doing this because we that we are improving the sustainability of ethanol because we shouldn't put all of our eggs in one basket.

>> Do you support those tax credits for its construction?

>> Federal question.

I haven't thought about it.

>> I would like to circle back to a question I should have asked when we were talking about water quality and the use of fertilizer.

There are people in your party who say it's time for some state regulations in terms of how much nitrogen is applied to farmland, do you agree with them?

>> I think what we should be doing, like I said, is providing tax credits.

If you go around the state right now, you will find people who have been signing up, farmers who have been signing up for conservation programs, and they get turned away.

People have been on wait lists for years.

As a farmer wanting to do a better job with conservation, they are wanting to get this right.

They know it has an impact.

They're also trying to make a living.

I don't think that we should be setting people against each other.

I think we should be doing is making sure that we are working together on this.

>> One of the things you've been telling voters is that if you are elected, there will be divided government that Republicans will retain control of the legislature, where Republicans have a supermajority right now in the House and a near supermajority in the Senate.

Right.

In 1998, when Tom Vilsack was elected governor, a Democrat, the Republican leaders in the legislature said, okay.

He had one priority.

We're going to do that one priority.

And that one priority was reducing class sizes in the early elementary grades to improve student performance.

What's the one priority that you think you could get through the legislature?

>> I want government to work for ordinary people.

People are being crushed right now with high prices, gas, energy, health care.

We have a water quality crisis.

We have all these problems in Iowa, our education system.

When I was growing up in Decorah, was one of the best in the country.

And here we are in the middle of the pack.

The reason that we have all of these problems is because our system for solving problems, our system of self-governance, has hit the point where it is run by two private clubs who are more focused on serving the little number of insiders that they have than aren't actually solving problems.

If we give ourselves a better problem solving system, our problems will begin to get better.

My number one priority is doing that.

Democrats and Republicans should not have special legal privileges on your ballot.

They should not be able to force us into picking between the lesser of two evils.

>> So what you're talking about are open primaries, correct?

>> One public primary.

Everyone's on the same ballot.

Independent voters should be equal citizens in our democracy.

We just had a primary where a third of the state of Iowa was told that they are less equal than anyone else because they were registered independent.

Tell me how that's American.

Tell me how that's Iowan.

You can't because it's not.

And then we look around and we wonder, why is everything so messy?

Why is everybody so angry?

It's because we're taking the people who are independent voters and we're telling them they can't participate.

It's wrong.

I want to have a single public primary.

Every eligible voter gets to participate because that is their voice and that is their right under the Constitution.

And it's the good, the right thing to do.

Once we do that, we send the top four regardless of party, maybe the top five, maybe the top three.

I'm open minded.

Send those to the general election and tell people, here's your general election candidates.

Vote for as many of them as you approve of.

Whoever has the most people that approves of them wins the election.

>> Well, you've talked about this quite a bit on the campaign trail.

You know, opposing the two party systems.

You've been criticized for having donated money to the Iowa Democratic Party.

Why?

Why did you choose to do that?

If you're opposed to this two party system.

>> The Iowa Democratic Party has a reduced rate for USPS, mail and independent candidate doesn't.

These are the kinds of special legal privileges that I'm talking about ending.

We have a two choice system.

If you make it a three way race, we all know what happens.

Whichever party, the independent candidate is closer to, they pull votes from that person.

The other party probably doesn't hit 50%, but they're the ones that ends up winning.

We need to change the system by electing people who.

You can probably tell how much I care about this.

Listening to me right now, we need to elect people who are dead serious about reforming the system.

But we have to do that from the system, the way it works now, because the Democrats and Republican parties historically have set it up to make it impossible to win.

Otherwise.

>> Well, your nomination puts you at the top of the Democratic ticket.

Several candidates all the way down the ballot.

How do you see your role as a leader within this party now being at the top of that ticket with people like Josh Turek, with people like Sarah Garriott?

>> I say what I think, I think a lot of them probably agree with me.

I hope that we see Democrats and Republicans campaign on this, not just in Iowa, but everywhere.

>> Iowa.

Democrats are talking with the National Party right now about the caucuses, about their place within the national political system, trying to get a place in that early voting window.

Once again, if you're elected governor, would you push for Iowa to go first?

>> Yes.

>> Would you push for them to go first, regardless of what the DNC says?

>> Yes.

>> Why?

>> Because it's in our law and I care more about the law than I do about some private club.

>> I'm wondering about something you're talking about on the campaign trail.

You're talking about veto ceremonies.

Yes.

Some of us have covered bill signing ceremonies in the governor's office.

>> To be clear, I want both.

Okay?

>> Okay.

>> Bill signing ceremonies.

I don't want bill veto ceremonies.

But if they send me bills that are dumb ideas that are culture war bills, then we'll have a bill vetoing ceremony.

>> So how should Iowans interpret what they're hearing from both political parties, from you and from Republicans?

I mean, if you're elected, is this going to be an antagonistic four years?

>> No.

Well, let me put it this way A bill vetoing ceremony only happens after a legislature sends a bill.

I will be working with the Republican legislature like we were just talking about.

My message to that legislature is my message to every single Iowan in this state.

It is time to focus on making sure we are not 48th for personal income growth.

It is time to focus on making sure we are not at the top of the cancer ratings.

It is time to take action on water quality and on radon.

It is time to take action on making our public school system among the best in the country.

Send me a bill that is just culture war stuff that isn't making Iowa more competitive, that isn't making Iowans solve problems and making their costs go down.

And I'm going to veto it.

>> But you've seen what's happened in Wisconsin.

Do you expect that here?

>> I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

I mean, I know they have divided government in Wisconsin.

>> And they have limited the powers of the governor.

>> Oh, well, too late for that, isn't it?

They don't they could do that in Wisconsin, I think, because they have a two supermajorities is that you're paying closer attention to it than I am.

You must be.

>> Yes.

They have in.

>> I'm not going to sign a bill to limit the powers of the governor, if that's what you're.

And they'd have to have two supermajorities to get there, which I think would be tough to do >> I'm guessing you're an advocate for Democrats to win Iowa's congressional races.

>> I am.

>> If that happens, Republicans nationally may put pressure on Republicans in Iowa to redraw the congressional district lines to make them more favorable for the 2028 election.

What would be your response?

>> I like our independent redistricting commission.

I think we have one of the best ones in the country.

We did it first, and we did it best, and I would protect it.

Absolutely.

And you're right that people are talking about that.

I've seen posts online.

>> National.

There's a lot of national.

>> I want to I want to say something else about that because you see all these headlines about which party is going to win this redistricting war.

I'd really like someone to write the story about who's going to lose.

The answer is America.

>> As a governor, how how could you wield any of your influence in a state like Iowa with the system that we have to effect change at the national level?

>> I hope that people see me run.

I hope that people, Democrats and Republicans who are sick of the two choice system, see me run and see the kind of Cross-partisan coalition that has come together.

Guys, we have three times the number of Republican donors that Zach Lahn has.

Excuse me.

We have three times the number of Republican donors.

The Zach Lahn has total donors.

We are building a movement here that is beyond being Democrats and Republicans.

It is about rejecting the politics of hate, bringing people together.

We did 100 public town halls last year.

We're doing 100 more this year.

I hope everybody goes to Rob Sand .com and finds when we're going to be in your county, because you can sign up now.

We've got dates and times.

We ask people.

We invite people to love their neighbors at these events.

We ask them to applaud the people who are in the opposite political party, and then sing the first verse of America the Beautiful together.

You should feel the lightness in the room.

When that happens.

I want this to happen everywhere.

I want people to come together.

I'm so sick of the anger and the hatred and the division.

Blessed are the peacemakers.

That's what I want to be.

I hope we find all kinds of peacemakers from across the political spectrum who want to do that too.

>> We have about 30s left.

You have issued a debate challenge to Zach Lahn.

What is it and why?

>> I'd love to see him do 100 public town halls the same way I do two weeks advance notice open to the public taking non prescreened questions and let's do four debates.

Two.

That's more than any two candidates have done going back 20 years.

>> Why?

>> Because I think Iowans deserve transparency and they deserve accountability.

>> You've also proposed a law that would require public officials to have public events.

>> Yes.

>> Is that against the First Amendment >> I don't think so.

You want to argue about it?

Let's pass the law and find out.

>> Well, I'm finding out that we are out of time for this conversation today.

>> Shoot.

>> Rob Sand, thanks for joining us again.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> You may watch other episodes of Iowa Press at iowapbs.org.

And for your note, we have invited Zach Lahn to join us here at the Iowa press table for everyone here at Iowa Press.

Thanks for watching today.

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