(regal orchestral music) - With a new Year upon us, the 66th Wyoming Legislature will gabble in for a short time on January 12th in Cheyenne.

But this year's calendar for lawmakers will be different.

Wyoming PBS sits down with the presumptive leaders of the 66th, that's senate president-elect Dan Dockstander and speaker of the house-elect, Eric Barlow.

We'll discuss the year ahead, the big changes in the legislative calendar, and the mountain of challenges currently facing Wyoming.

Capitol Outlook starts now.

(regal orchestral music) - [Narrator] This program is supported in part by a grant from the BNSF railway foundation, dedicated to improving the general welfare and quality of life in communities throughout the BNSF railway service area.

Proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator 2] This program was funded in part by a grant for Newman's Own Foundation.

Working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's Own food and beverage products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world a better place.

More information is available at NewmansOwnfoundation.org.

- [Narrator 3] By a grant from AARP, serving the needs and providing real possibilities for the over 50 population in Wyoming.

AARP Wyoming, proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator 4] And by Wyoming humanities, celebrating our heritage, strengthening our democracy, and growing Wyoming's creative and cultural economy for over 50 years.

Visit thinkwhy.org.

- And as we begin 2021, it's our pleasure to be joined with the presumptive leaders of the 66th Wyoming Legislature, Representative Eric Barlow and Senator Dan Dockstader, to both of you happy New Year, and welcome back to Capital Outlook.

- Thank you, good day to you.

- Thank you.

- And before we begin our discussion here on the legislative calender and the priorities that you each will now have for the 66 Wyoming Legislature, I think it's important that you both offer comments, if you would, on what has happened this week in our nation's Capitol and indeed across the country.

And I was taken aback just a bit, not by what was on top of the fold of the Wyoming Tribune Eagle this morning, which the headline said "chaos at the Capitol during election debate, Trump supporters storm building."

But more chilling to me was a story about a protest that Dr. Barlow and I both observed personally that said, "nonviolent stop the steel protest held in Cheyenne."

But it was this speech box that was chilling to me that said, Congress must reject the electoral college, and if they don't and if our representatives don't we will and that's a promise.

This is reported by Tom Coulter of the Wyoming Tribune Eagle.

I wanna give you each an opportunity to comment about what was a dark day in our nation's history.

Dr. Barlow, your daughter observed the goings on firsthand as a staffer for Senator Cynthia Lummis.

First, we hope she is safe.

What are you feeling this morning?

- Well, thank you very much, Craig, for bringing this up and thank you for thinking of my daughter.

She is safe and the staff of all of our elected officials, delegation, we're safe and secure.

So thank you for thinking of her there.

You know, actually this morning I wrote a note to my house colleagues and to be clear, personally, I'm heartbroken.

Personally, I'm heartbroken about what we've observed and then when it goes a step further, what I stated to my colleagues is, but let's be encouraged because we have a role, we're going to take an oath of office and some of us already have and some more are today, to serve in the Wyoming legislature.

And in our roles there we will obey and defend, support the constitution.

And we also have an opportunity to make an effort toward doing the right things, toward honoring each other and honoring the processes that we have before that are embodied in that constitution.

So I am hopeful.

I'm heartbroken, but I'm hopeful that as we begin our work as a Wyoming Legislature to the 66th Wyoming legislature, we will grasp onto those two things, our oath and our civic responsibility to both honor each other and honor the processes we have.

So that's kind of how I tried to address it with my fellow colleagues in the house this morning with just a short note .

- Senator Dockstader, what are you thinking this morning?

I'm sure you echo the comments of Representative Barlow in hopes that we can have a peaceful moment going forward.

- Thank you, Craig.

Good comments from our speaker elect.

Interestingly enough when we were, we actually have some media stations on the West side of the state.

We do something called a text in topic and we can always tell when we've hit a nerve because we have two big computer screens that just light up and we remind people don't text while you drive but they'll pop in with comments consistently and throughout the morning on different topics.

Early on before this definitely there was a sway out here on the West side of the Southwestern part of the state to have this heard at the congressional level.

And the change I noticed this morning after yesterday's events, it shifted.

They viewed that, the violence, all that happened in the Capitol is completely unacceptable.

And it was probably one of our darker days as a nation.

- Of course the Wyoming Capitol yesterday was placed on lockdown.

Do either of you had any concerns about the safety of your fellow legislators, of the general public or others who might come to the Capitol to observe the people's business here beginning next Tuesday.

- I'll ask the people to show respect.

We've got a process.

We work very hard at to making sure that all voices are heard on the floor during discussion debate.

We try to take public comment throughout the process all summer long through the interim.

As we work into this now and sort out all the details of this legislative session.

We try to make sure people have comment and an opportunity to speak.

I just would simply request that we have respect at the Wyoming State Capitol as well.

- Dr. Barlow.

- Thank you, Craig.

And my colleagues words are very appropriate.

The next thing I'd say is that we are citizens just like you are.

We are citizens just like the folks that we represent.

We are a citizen legislature.

And we travel from home to Cheyenne and back home weekly or daily, if you're close to Cheyenne.

So we're a part of the community.

We're, I mean, it's not like we're often a far off land, making things up.

We are part of this state of Wyoming.

And hopefully with the processes we have in place that president like Dockstader has talked about and just building relationships we can get, we can trust.

We can trust that we're going to do the best we can with what we have for the citizens of Wyoming.

It doesn't mean we won't have disagreements.

It doesn't mean we can't discuss the issues but we can do it in a respectful manner that respects each other and the institution.

That's what's amazing about being in the 66th Wyoming legislature's.

65 times it's happened before.

They handed us something let's cherish it, let's take care of that for all of our citizens and let's pass it on to the next legislature to do their work, to do the good work on the behalf of the citizens of Wyoming.

So, be respectful to each other, build relationships.

That's what makes Wyoming unique.

We talked about Wyoming being a big small town with long streets.

Let's make sure that we're talking to our neighbors.

That's who we are.

That's what legislators are in Wyoming.

They're your neighbors.

I'm your neighbor.

Dan is your neighbor.

Thank you.

- Sure.

And let's go to next Tuesday.

What's the schedule?

What do you plan to have happen as you both will be likely elected as leaders of your respective body sweats?

What's the plan for the scheduling now, the 66 as you know today?

- I think I'll start off with the 12th.

The ceremony of the 12th, we are going to convene in a virtual setting.

As you know, we are dealing with a pandemic.

With COVID-19 it's difficult as many of our communities, many of our families are suffering the ravages of it.

And it's challenging businesses.

It's challenging many things.

But what we're trying to do is convene the business of the Wyoming Legislature in a safe and respectful manner considering that we have very vulnerable members of our body and a staff, et cetera.

And then as soon as we can, we're still working on this, first of all, we'll do our constitutional duties on the 12th.

We'll convene, we'll elect offers, we'll adopt rules and take some other necessary actions.

And then we'll, and we're gonna work on this later today the president elect and myself and more, we will step, and I think in the next few days, we will have out a schedule for folks to anticipate what comes next.

And it will be, I think we will have a full session and some of it may be done virtually, but certainly our end goal has always been, with president-elect and myself, is to do as much as we can in person.

That will take probably likely have a delayed.

It will be at a delayed time, but we're not putting it off.

We're not giving up on our session.

We are going to do the people's business.

It'll just be in a little different format potentially and timeline than what is typical.

- As we go to your comments Senator Dockstader, by full session do you mean meeting for eight weeks this year?

Is that what you mean by full session?

And then can you at least tell us when you would expect to, you're working on the schedule right now, but are we thinking of a March start to this and April start to this?

What is rising to the top here today?

We're looking at March because we have some in the AG community that needs to get out and make a living.

And I've heard from them on my side of the building, Senator Boehner, Senator French we heard from them in, in public testimony.

That is their life.

That's how they make a living.

And we got, we have, we need to remember they're just an important part of our body as well.

But one thing I only add to Speaker Eric's comments is people need to realize we have been working this inside and out, every way we can, all the way through the holidays.

My grandchildren asked, why is grandpa always in the office?

It's because I was with somebody trying to work out the details of this speaker elect or members of my body, our leadership team.

And it was very time-consuming and we're still bringing it all together as we move into this week.

And ultimately, I guess my biggest concern is not just our wonderful membership, but we've got great staff we need to make sure that they're safe because that's not a deep bench.

They're there and ready for us.

And the scenario might be such that we move forward with our work but keep them as safe as we can in that process.

- Late last year, the Wyoming Taxpayers Association met in their annual meeting and we have a short clip that I want to share with our viewers that you both have seen.

And then I want your comments.

Here's the clip.

- 'Cause there's been a definite, I would say disconnect between the house and the Senate, on the ability to raise revenues over the past two or three years, the house has has consistently passed some types of revenue enhancement bills and sent them on to the Senate, and the only one that has been successful was the lodging tax.

And that took about three tries for that to cross the final hurdle.

And it took a lot of political will and education of all the parties and getting the various entities across Wyoming to be actively involved in it and provide the support for it.

The same thing is gonna happen this year.

I think the house will pass a revenue enhancement bill or several of them.

And the question is, can we educate, can we work with our senators to come to middle ground, to demonstrate that the need is real and regardless of a no tax pledge or not, if we don't do something we do not have the capability to cut $700 million out of education.

It'd be overturned by the Supreme Court in a blink of an eye.

- Just this morning, I got an email from the state Republican chairman or I was copied on an email from the state Republican chairman about a, I think it was an op-ed or some kind of opinion piece that he has released where he's coming down and he's talking about writing for the brand and in there he talks about the need and the importance it is for all Republican legislators people who call themselves Republicans to follow the Republican platform.

And one of the planks, one of the platforms of the Republican, the warming Republican party is no new taxes.

We're gonna have, the best two thirds of our body will have had four years of experience or less.

A couple of those are coming out of the house but most of them are just new to politics and and new to the legislature.

So I think as you look about that as much as we would like to find ways to diversify and expand and otherwise move our revenue streams around, I think it's going to be very, it's a pragmatic point.

I think it's very, very difficult for us to, for poor senators or newly elected senators or newly elected house members for that matter, to come down and in their first session they take office and their first session before they know enough and have enough confidence in what they know to vote, to raise revenues.

I think that's just going to be very difficult from a very pragmatic point of view.

- Representative Barlow first to you, do you expect the houses as Representative Nicholas suggests to pass some revenue bills this session?

- Well, thank you, Craig.

So certainly the house has to take up any revenue bills.

As a constitutional requirement, all revenue questions start in the House of Representatives.

Certainly I have numerous colleagues that are hesitant or even resistant to the revenue questions and suggestions that may come before us.

But I hope that through this, through the process and this may be a multi-year process that we can actually become better informed, educated about what our revenue challenges are, what our sources of income are as a state, as government.

And then what we support with those because people really do have to make choices about the level of service they want and what they expect.

And I think when we start making, we're gonna have cuts in this in this upcoming supplemental budget.

There's gonna be cuts.

The Senator and I are already hearing from some of those programs that are receiving those cuts.

And these are folks in our community receiving services whether they be elderly or disabled folks or whatever, these are real, it's a real thing take K-12, how do you, how do you pair back K-12 in a meaningful way and still have an equitable and adequate education that's required of us.

And so I think that there will probably be some revenue bills, tax bills, if you will, that are proposed in the house.

I think the house is justifiably needs to take a hard look at them.

One, it's our responsibility to initiate them.

And two, we will at the same time, just so we're on the same page.

It's hard for some people to look at the LSRA, the Legal Services Regulatory Authority, the rainy day fund and say, we're still putting money away.

And now we're wanting to raise taxes.

So it's a big discussion.

And we've done some small thing we spent some different taxes in the couple of years, the tourism type tax a couple of last year, et cetera.

So we've done some incremental things, but as far as a big tax reform type thing, to me that's multi-year, it's building relationships, it's building coalitions, it's building of where we are.

And then, and based on what we know we need for services and what we believe we want for services and need and to where our revenue sources are.

So I think we'll have the discussions but I think, you know, there'll be probably limited things go forward until people, both people, both with my colleagues and the citizens we better understand where we are.

- Senator Dockstader do you agree the need for the house to work with the Senate here and do you recognize any need at all as we speak today for additional revenue?

- Yes we do.

And I just like to note, hearing from the people on a daily basis, it's not just email, they get a hold of the phone, the phone number circulates.

And I came out of the whole back the other day and was ended up into Jackson.

I had a phone call that started there and didn't drop and all the way into downtown Jackson, still sat in the parking lot, continuing to hear a person's concerns.

And that's what we're doing, we were listening, but it's very difficult right now.

I don't think people totally realized just the problem the state is facing.

We have had all this great mineral economy and I kept saying it the last few years we're seeing this downturn, this downturn.

And it was part of why I repurposed some of the spending projects last year.

I says, aside from COVID we didn't even know about that yet.

We had this mineral downturn that just wasn't turning around.

And so the Senate felt, just speaking in general terms, the Senate felt like it just wasn't safe to step out there and add more taxes or more revenue, when what we really need to do is take care of our cuts fist, take care of that.

And as far as we do this, and I think President Perkins in that video pointed this out two thirds have four years or less experience, we're moving people into some heavy lifting in their early legislative careers.

And they have to thoroughly investigate the budget first and understand it and understand their constituency and then understand where they're going to be on budget cuts and where they're going to be on raises.

- The both of you again, happy New Year, what a year we have in front of us, what a year we have behind us.

And I look forward to working with both of you here as whatever the session looks like comes into focus.

So thank you very much for joining us here on Capitol Outlook.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

We're gonna have a quick visit with the minority leadership.

That's next, stay with us.

- And as we continue with this first Capital Outlook of the season with the members of the now 66th Legislature.

I'm pleased again to be welcoming Representative Cathy Connolly and Senator Chris Rothfuss both minority leaders of their respective bodies.

To both of you welcome back to Capital Outlook.

- Hi Craig.

- Thanks, Craig.

Great to be here.

- We visited with the majority leadership just a moment ago and I am curious as to how you think your upcoming session as we visit today on Wednesday before this airs is going to map out.

And we know for sure you're going to be gathered in for a day on January 12th.

What's next?

- Well, Craig, it's still, it's a bit up in the air but I think that we are all committed that we want a safe and healthy session.

And that means in particular for our staff as well as the legislators, and the public that is attending.

So we're all keeping our fingers crossed that a vaccine will be available and available soon to us so that we can get inoculated and have the session as much in person as possible because we all, there's a couple of things.

We all recognize that kind of doing the people's business often involves like sitting down and talking to someone, running into them in the hall, jumping up and going over and asking for someone's view, tweaking your own ideas.

You can do that a whole lot better and differently than you're doing so, all right.

So we wanna be together, We wanna be in person and we are hoping that that will be sooner rather than later.

- So what is sooner rather than later?

Is that March?

Is that April?

Is it mid February?

What do we know?

Senator?

- Well, that's a great question.

And there are a lot of interests that I think diverge when it comes to the actual timeline.

In my view, May probably would have been an excellent month when you start looking at the rollout schedule for vaccinations.

There's concerns from the agricultural community and certain legislators that they need to be active and working in May.

So there's a desire to try and beat that timeline and get things wrapped up in April or potentially even March if possible.

I don't know whether that's realistic or not.

So we're really gonna have to see that schedule.

We're gonna have to understand when the vaccine is actually available.

And I think we'll end up making that decision a little bit later in the spring.

- Earlier in the episode this evening, we showed a video of the two now Chairs of the Joint Appropriations Committee Caucus Senator Drew Perkins and Representative Bob Nicholas.

You have now seen that video as well.

And I'm curious about your thoughts about it, give you a little moment to reflect on it.

(mumbles) Either of you changed any positions relative to the need for the state to really look at revenues (mumbles), revenue stream since the Governor now has released his budget and now the Joint Appropriations Committee has kind of parsed their way through it.

- It's really just more urgent now than it was before realistically.

So I wouldn't say my position and our caucus' position has changed in any way.

We've known really for the last decade that this moment was going to eventually reach us.

And then it was unfortunately expedited by the the economic hardship that COVID brought upon the state.

But the reality is, there's been no doubt that we would end up having another economic downturn due to the uncertainty of the mineral industry as well as the decreasing demand for coal in particular.

So here we are, we know that there is no possibility of us using resources that we have available to meet our budget needs for a sound budget that actually protects the programs that are geared to the people of the state, protects education, keeps it whole.

There's no alternative.

We keep talking about this idea that we can cut our way out of it, but you've been around for quite a while, as we have Craig, and you know that each and every year, the legislature has come back in, and attempted to make as many cuts as they can.

There's just not a lot of fat left.

If any, we're down to the bone at this point and cuts hurt people at this point.

Each and every cut will hurt somebody, some constituency, somebody in the state of Wyoming.

And the only alternative at this point in time is significant revenue increases in diversification.

- And arguably the legislature now is even more conservative than it was a year or two ago.

Representative Connolly, what are your thoughts today?

- Ah, Craig, you know, I echo senator office's comments and I'll even go a step further.

I was really disappointed with the governor's budget.

The governor took the rhetoric of we will cut, we will cut our way out of the financial issues that are before us.

And I agree with again the minority leader that people will be hurt, that budget will hurt people, they will hurt our community, they will hurt our neighbors.

It could be hurting individuals that we know.

And instead of taking the road of we absolutely need to diversify our revenue streams.

We can't, we have a three legged stool and it's based on severance taxes, sales taxes, and property taxes.

As one of those legs is out right now, it just is.

And that our first priority in my mind should have been, what do we do to replace that leg of the stool?

Because as you know, four years ago, we cut state services to the bone.

We did the penny plan.

We cut, we cut, we cut, there's little if no fat.

And so the governor's budget and then the JAC reductions to that budget go much, much further.

- We're filming this on Wednesday.

As we speak, the capitol is been taken over, quite frankly.

What are each of you thinking right now about what this has meant to our country?

- Craig, this is an incredibly disappointing time for our country.

As we see really the breakdown of our democratic institution in a way that we haven't seen certainly in my lifetime and in much longer periods of time.

It's disappointing, disappointing and disheartening to have an administration that was willing to embrace division and mislead constituents.

- Honestly, Craig, I've been disgusted and disturbed, but I agree with senator's office, it's been after four years.

We shouldn't be too surprised because this has been called for but it appalls me.

- The session opens Tuesday, January 12th at noon.

And we will bring our viewers live the governor's message to the legislature that's at 2:00 PM on WyomingPBS.

So to both of you, best of luck with this upcoming year, and you have a lot of work in front of you and we look forward to visiting with you again.

- Thank you Craig.

Thanks Craig, appreciate your time.

- [Narrator] This program is supported in part by a grant from the BNSF railway foundation, dedicated to improving the general welfare and quality of life in communities throughout the BNSF railway service area.

Proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator 2] This program was funded in part by a grant for Newman's Own Foundation.

Working to nourish the common good by donating all profits from Newman's Own food and beverage products to charitable organizations that seek to make the world a better place.

More information is available at NewmansOwnfoundation.org.

- [Narrator 3] By a grant from AARP, serving the needs and providing real possibilities for the over 50 population in Wyoming.

AARP Wyoming, proud to support Wyoming PBS.

- [Narrator 4] And by Wyoming humanities, celebrating our heritage, strengthening our democracy, and growing Wyoming's creative and cultural economy for over 50 years.

Visit thinkwhy.org.