♪♪ MUSIC PLAYING ♪♪ >>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS.

ON "ARIZONA HORIZON" IT'S THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE LOOKING AT THE WEEK'S TOP STORIES INCLUDING A FORMER PRESIDENT AND HIS VICE PRESIDENT VISITING ACCEPT PARTS OF THE STATE TO CAMPAIGN TO DIFFERENT CANDIDATES.

ON CONGRATULATIONS WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT WAYS MAYOR COMA AND LOS ANGELES COUNTY ARE HANDLING THE COVID SURGE AND HOW HOW COMPANIES ARE USING SOCIAL ISSUES FOR CAMPAIGNS THAT'S ALL NEXT AHEAD ON ARIZONA PBS.

>>> WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON", I AM TED SIMONS IT'S FRIDAY AND THAT MEANS IT'S TIME FOR THE JOURNALISTS' ROUNDTABLE JOINING US TONIGHT RACHEL LEINGANG OF THE ARIZONA AGENDA.

RICHARD RUELAS OF THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC AND AZCENTRAL DEVELOPMENT COME AND CAMRYN SÁÁNCHEZ OF THE ARIZONA CAPITOL TIMES.

RACHEL WELL START WITH YOU.

WE HAVE A FORMER PRESIDENT, A FORMER VICE PRESIDENT VISITING THE STATE.

DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE.

DIFFERENT CANDIDATES.

>> WE ARE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE AS ALWAYS.

>> YES, WE ARE.

>> SO IT'S INTERESTING THAT THIS PROXY WAR EVENTUALLY BETWEEN TRUMP AND PENCE IS NOW A PART OF OUR GOVERNOR'S RACE.

WE ARE CAROLYN TAYLOR ROBSON WITH PENCE AND GOVERNOR DOUG DUCEY WHO ALSO ENDORSED HER AND KERRY LAKE AND VARIETY OF THE OTHER PEOPLE AT A RALLY FOR TRUMP WHO HAS ENDORSED KERRY LAKE.

IT'S IT'S ALL HANDS ON DECK UNTIL ELECTION DAY.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT ALL GOES.

>> TRUMP RALLY FEATURING DONALD TRUMP.

IS THAT NOT BASICALLY A RALLY FOR DAWNED TRUMP?

>> TYPICALLY THE FORMER PRESIDENT GIVES THE CANDIDATES HE'S SPEAKING WITH A MOMENT IN THE SUN.

KERI LAKE GIVEN HER PROFESSIONAL BACKGROUND WILL PROBLEM IS A SEIZE A NO MOMENT MORE THAN OTHER CANDIDATES, SHE'S NO THAT REACHING VIOLET AS YOU KNOW.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW TRUMP REACTS TO PENCE BEING IN THE SAME STATEMENT WHETHER HE'LL GO AFTER PENCE, WHETHER HE'LL GO AFTER DUCEY OR STICK TO THE STRICT.

>> CAMRYN WE MAKE LIGHT OF THE FACT THAT EIGHT DONALD TRUMP RALLY USUALLY FEATURES DONALD TRUMP TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

BUT MIKE PENCE IS HERE FOR KAREN TAYLOR ROBSON BUT HE HAS HIS ONLY POLITICAL AMBITIONS AMBITIONS .

>> DEFINITELY.

WE ARE WITH WE WERE AT THE EVENT WHERE HE SPOKE ABOUT THE BORDER IT SOUNDED LIKE A TUMPANE SPEECH.

I WOULDN'T BE AT ALL SURPRISED IF HE'S ANNOUNCE WHATEVER HIS NEXT POSITION IS.

COULDN'T GUESS, I KNOW.

I THINK IT'S HELPFUL FOR TRUMP AS WELL AS HIS CANDIDATES TO SPEAK, THEY ARE ALL PROPPING EACH OTHER UP.

IT'S TROUBLE AND HIS TRUMP ENDORSED ARMY OF SUPPORTERS.

>> WILL FOUR CHANGE ANY MINDS?

THIS IS BASICALLY A RAIL OF THE BASE ON BOTH SIDES, IS IT NOT?

>> IT IS RALLY THE BASE, THERE HAS TO BE VOTERS UNDECIDED BETWEEN THESE TWO.

AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE SPEECHERS WILL HELPFUL I THINK MAYBE ENDORSEMENT, HOW IT PLAYS.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE WAITING TO THE MIKE PENCE WHETHER HE'S GOING TO RUN OR NOT.

THERE IS PROBABLY A BUNCH OF REPUBLICANS WAITING TO SEE WHETHER TRUMP WILL SEEK THE NOMINATION AGAIN OR WHETHER HE'LL STEP ASIDE OR FLAME OUT OR SOMETHING.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WILL SOMEONE LIKE MIKE PENCE AND IF SOMEONE LIKE MIKE PENCE RUNS IS MAYBE DOUG DUCEY NEXT TONIGHT ON THE TICKET.

>> DOUG DUCEY WAS NEXT TO HIM TODAY AS FAR AS CAMPAIGNING FOR KAREN TAYLOR ROBSON AND HE WAS ON CNN LAST WEEKEND AND WENT AFTER KERI LAKE AND CALLED HER A PHONEY IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> HE WAS QUIET FOR MUCH OF THE PRIMARY.

NOW THAT WE ARE IN TO EARLY VOTING HE'S BEEN QUITE VOCAL AND IT'S RARE TO EVEN SEE HIM DOING INTERVIEWS, HE'S KIND OF BEEN ON THE ROUNDS LATELY FOR, YOU KNOW, KAREN TAYLOR ROBSON.

AND IT'S A STRANGE POSITION I THINK TO BE IN.

AS A SITTING GOVERNOR, YOU KNOW, BEING THAT KIND ADVOCATE FOR SOMEONE RUNNING FOR OFFICE, BUT HE MUST FEEL STRONGLY.

CLEARLY ROBSON IS ALIGNED WITH THE DUCEY AGENDA AND KERI LAKE IS NOT.

>> IT'S ALL AN ACT HE SAID SHE'S PUTTING ON A SHOW.

STICKING WITH YOU, DOES THIS MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

DO THESE APPEARANCES, LIKEN DORSE THINKS, HOW MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE DOES A DOUG DUCEY APPEARANCE MAKE?

>> POLL STICKS A GAME OF MARGINS.

SO YOU NEVER KNOW, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S GOING MAKE A LARGE-SCALE DIFFERENCE FITS A CLOSE RACE YOU NEED ALL THELESS THINGS, TV, AND MAIL AND EVERYTHING THAT'S SO ANNOYING, YOU NEED ALL OF THOSE LITTLE THINGS.

TO GET YOUR CANDIDATE ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

EVERYTHING WE HAVE SEEN IS ROBSON HAS HAD A CLIMB IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS.

BOTH SIDES ARE ON THE LAST STRETCHES GIVING IT THEIR ALL.

BUT IT IS CLOSER THAN PEOPLE THOUGHT.

>> AND CAMRYN, IT'S SO CLOSE AND DIVISIVE, YOU GOTTA WONDER, SOMEONE IS GOING TO WIN AND SOMEONE GOING TO LOSE AND THERE WILL BE A LOT OF FOLKS UPSET THAT THEIR CANDIDATE LOST, WILL THEY JUMP ON THE GOP BAND WAGON IN THE GENERAL?

>> A LOT OF PARTY FRACTURING AND YOU NEVER KNOW.

BUT TRUMP'S ENDORSEMENT IS STRONG AND IT'S HELPING HIS CANDIDATES A LOT BLAKE MASTERS.

MARKIN INNING ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE DOING WELL IN THE POLLS.

IT'S CLEARLY EFFECTIVE.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT THOSE FOLKS SHOULD THEY LOSE ARE GOING TO JUMP ON BOARD THE WINNING CANDIDATE?

>> WILL SOMEONE LIKE KERI LAKE CONTINUE TO FIGHT THE ELECTION RESULTS ALL THE WAY THROUGH NOVEMBER.

>> RIGHT.

>> OR WILL SHE JOIN -- WILL THEY PATCH UP -- THIS IS A FRACTURING.

WE SEASONER PARTY SQUABBLES IN PRIMARIES ALL THE TIME.

THIS IS DEEPER TO DOUG DUCEY, NOT ONLY TAKING SIDES AS A SITTING GOVERNOR, HE'S AHEAD OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR'S ASSOCIATION AND THIS SUMMER, AT THEIR CONFERENCE HERE IN PHOENIX, HE SAID AND HE'S REITERATED THIS, OUR JOB IS TO GET REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS ELECTED IN EVERY STATE.

HE'S BEEN COY ABOUT WHETHER DESPITE WHAT HE SAID ON CN IN.

THIS WEEK, HE WOULD THROW THE WEIGHT OF THE RGA AND THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY, BEHIND A POTENTIAL KERI LAKE CAMPAIGN.

>> DEUCE SEE A TEAM PLAYER.

FOR HIM I SEE HIM GETTING BEHIND WHOEVER WINS, HIS GOAL IS PURELY GETTING GETTING REPUBLICAN AS ELECTED I WONDER ABOUT KELLY WARD AND HER LEADERSHIP OF THE STATE PARTY, SHE'S LESS CLEAR IF SHE WOULD.

SHE'S A BIG BELIEVER IN 20 -- A HOST OF 2020 ELECTION FALLACIES.

I COULD SEE HER NOT WANT TO GO GIVE UP.

DOES THAT MEAN THE STATE PARTY AFTERNOONS RESOURCES DON'T FLOW TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY TO GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES, BUT TO LOWER RACES AS WELL THAT REALLY RELY ON THE STATE PARTY.

SO I DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH, I COULD SEE MORE OF THE DUCEY-P, ROBSON, TAYLOR ROBSON TEAM BEING MORE WILLING TO SUPPORT KERI LAKE OR WHOEVER WINS VERSUS THAT SIDE BEING OKAY IF THEY LOSE.

AND THEN SUPPORTING THE OTHER -- >> YEAH.

>> SECTION.

LIKE MARK DIDN'T HE SAY THERE AIN'T GOING TO BE IN CONCESSION SPEECH FROM ME.

>> AT LEAST NOT UNTIL EVERY SINGLE VOTE IS COUNTED BY HAND WHICH MEANS, YOU KNOW, HE HAS A LONG WAIT THERE.

>> SURE.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU MENTION THE COUNSEL-BALLOT RACES IT MADE ME THINK THAT PEOPLE MAKE A POINT OF SAYING PARTY CHAIRS TYPICALLY DON'T GET INVOLVED IN PICKING SIDES.

MAYBE THAT'S WHY.

>> THAT'S PART OF THAT.

ONCE THERE IS A GENERAL THAT THE RESOURCES FLOW FROM THE PARTY ON DOWN.

>> RIGHT.

>> WE DID SOMETHING ABOUT THAT A WEEK AGO.

SHE HAS NOT ENDORSED BUT DEFECATOR HAS FOR MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

DAVID BARNES, ROUGHSY BOWERS PRIMARILY THERE.

YOU HAVE TO ONESSER WHO WILL DONATE TO THE STATE PARTY.

WILL THEY TAKE THEIR MONEY ELSEWHERE IF THEY DON'T THINK THE PARTY IS GOING TO SUPPORT CATCH DATZ IN THE GENERAL AS THEY TYPICALLY DO.

>> CAMRYN WE HAD A Facebook, A LAKE Facebook PAGE FROM A WHILE AGO SHARING A Facebook MEME, SHOWING PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S FACE SAYING NOT MY PRESIDENT.

AND SHE APPARENTLY -- DID SHE RETWEET IT, WHAT IS GOING ON?

WHAT IS SHE DOING HERE?

>> I WILL SAY SOMETHING.

I DON'T THINK THAT LAKE DESERVES ANY FLACK FOR THAT AND HERE IS WHY.

SHE WAS REPOSTING SOMETHING SOMEONE ELSE SAID IN SAYING THAT.

HERE IS SOMETHING I CAME ACROSS.

AND THEN ASKING TO THE VIEWERS ARE YOU GOING TO BE PARTICIPATING IN PROTESTS?

ARE YOU GOING TO BE DOING THIS OR THAT OR THE OTHER THING IN WE DO AT JUDGE ASSISTS.

IT WASN'T HER OPINION.

>> DID THE KAREN TAYLOR ROBSON THE -- >> THEY PLACED PLACED IT WITHOUT CONTEXT ON SIGNS ON THE ROAD SAYING KERI LAKE POSTED NOT MY PRESIDENT, NBC NEWS, VON KILL YARD A GRADUATE OF THE WALTER CRONKITE SCHOOL AT ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY THEY HAD A BOARD KEEPING TRACK OF THE SOCIAL MEDIA INTERACTIONS AND THE GOAL WAS TO BE ON TOP.

AND APPARENTLY SOURCES TOLD NBC NEWS THAT KERI LAKE WANTED TO BE ON TOP OF THAT BOARD AND SO WOULD POST PROVOCATIVE THINGS ON SOCIAL MEDIA TO CLIMB THE BOARD AND MAYBE THAT'S WHY WE SEE A POST LIKE THAT.

>> SO NOT NECESSARILY A FLIP-FLOP THEN?

>> I AGREE WITH THESE GUYS.

LOOKED TO ME LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO JUICE ENGAGE OPT THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> THE LAKE CAMPAIGN CALLED THE WHOLE THING SILLY.

>> THIS IS A STRETCH.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET'S MOVE ON, SHALL WE.

LET'S MOVE ONTO YOUR BIG STORY.

QUESTIONS OVER PACTS THAT ARE SUPPORTING KERI LAKE AND THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE PACTS.

THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO KERI LAKE IS.

>> RIGHT.

THE DAY THAT THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE FILINGS WERE OUT WHICH WAS A WEEK AGO, YOU KIND OF LOOK BECAUSE THESE SUPPOSEDLY DARK MONEY GROUPS SOME LIGHT SHINES ON THEM, ONE CALLED PUT ARIZONA FIRST, $2 MILLION ALL TO JAY KAUFMAN COMPANY.

REPRESENTING JAY KAUFMAN TO PRODUCE ADS.

EVENLY SPLIT LIKE YAY KAREN LAKE AND BOO KAREN TAYLOR ROBSON AND THE ONLY FUNDSER IS A COMPANY CALLED SPM MEDICAL, WHOSE ADDRESS WAS A U.P.S.

STORE IN NORTH PHOENIX.

IT'S THE SAME U.P.S.

STORE, CONVENIENTLY ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE, THAT THE PAC USES, SPH MEDICAL THERE IS NO ENTITY IN ARIZONA.

THE ONLY ONE WITH THAT NAME IS CALIFORNIA.

WHEN I CALLED THE OWNER HE DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ARIZONA, SAID, NO, EVEN I HAD MONEY TO GIVE WOULDN'T GIVE THAT TO THE CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR'S RACE.

IT'S NOT CLEAR WHERE THE MONEY IS COMING FROM.

AND THE SUPPOSED CHAIRMAN, CHRIS MARSHALL, -- WELL, THE LISTED CHAIRMAN, CHRIS MARSHALL, IS NOT RETURNING PHONE CALLS OR EMAILS SO SAY WHERE THE ACTUALLY FUNDS ARE FROM.

>> SO ARE WE LOOKING AT ADDRESS LAUNDERING HERE OR MORE?

>> IT WAS A GOOD QUESTION OF LIKE I THINK SOMEONE POSTED ON TWITTER, IF THERE IS DARK MONEY WHAT IS THIS CALLED?

WHEN THE ADDRESS IS JUST WRONG.

I ASKED JAKE-ON MARV TODAY AT THE STATE CAPITOL FOR ANOTHER EVENT LIKE HAVE YOU TALKED TO CHRIS MARSHALL?

DOES HE ACTUALLY EXIST?

HOFFMAN SAID, YES, THE MAN EXISTS, WE SPEAK.

THE MONEY ARRIVE INSIDE THIS PACK A DAY OR TWO BEFORE JAKE HOFFMAN NEEDS TO GIVE THE PAC MONEY, HE SAID I GIVE THEFT ESTIMATE THERE LAS BEEN A COMPLAINT FILED.

WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE OFFICE, THEY HAD TO KICK IT TO MARICOPA BECAUSE KATIE HOBBS IS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR HERSELF OF THE ELECTION -- THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE PROCESS IS INTENTIONALLY SLOW AND DELIBERATE.

>> RIGHT.

I AM NOT CLEAR IF IT WILL BE RESOLVED BY DEFINITELY NOT NEXT WEEK WHO KNOWS BY NOVEMBER.

>> THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GETTING INVOLVED IS WHITTLED DOWN BECAUSE ONE OF THESE GROUP IS INVOLVED WITH HIS RACE FOR SENATE.

>> THE FISHER CONSULTANTS.

>> YES.

>> AND THAT'S TYPICAL HERE, THERE ARE NOT THAT MANY TO GO AROUND.

SO -- >> AND CAMRYN, THIS IS A BIG STORY AS FAR AS WHERE -- WHO IS LIVING WHERE AND HOW MUCH ARE THEY SENDING WHERE.

BUT TO THE ELECTORATE.

DO THEY CARE?

IS THIS GOING -- COULD THIS BE ANY KIND OF A GAME CHANGER?

>> I THINK SO.

I AM FASCINATE THE BY IT.

GREAT STORY BY THE WAY.

>> YES.

>> IT WAS WONDERFUL.

THANK GOODNESS FOR YOU, I CAN SEE IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE THIS IS NOT A STRETCH LIKE ABOUT THE MEME, THIS IS MONEY COMING FROM SOMEONE SOMEWHERE THAT CAN HE CAN'T TRACY AND THINK PEOPLE WOULD CARE ABOUT THAT.

>> DO YOU THINK PEOPLE WILL CARE ABOUT IT -- OBVIOUSLY WE CARE ABOUT IT.

BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC OUT THERE, WHO DOESN'T -- MOST FOLKS DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS FROM THE LETTER "A."

>> THIS IS ONE OF THOSE BACK WHEN WE USED TO HAVE TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO CARE ABOUT POLITICS, NOW PEOPLE CARE ABOUT POLITICS ARGUABLY WAY TOO MUCH.

BUT IT DOES HAVE TO BE ONE WHERE IT'S TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHO SOMEONE IS TRYING TO DO.

AND IF SOMEONE IS TRYING TO PULL THE WOOL OVER YOUR EYES, I THINK PEOPLE DO GET UPSET ABOUT THAT.

THE SECOND PAC THAT WAS INVOLVED SECURING ARIZONA, THE MAN RUNNING IT WHO IS A CONDUCT TO WANT, HIS SON, GEORGE, AM I PRONOUNCE THAT GO RIGHT, IS A CONSULTANT WHO IS WORKING FOR MARK BERNAVIC'S SENATE CAMPAIGN.

THE FATHER YOUSSEF IS THE TREASURE ARE OF THE SECOND PAC, HE SAYS I MADE A MISTAKE, TWO BUSINESSES WITH THE SAME NAME AND SOMEONE HAS ARIZONA HORIZON MOVING AND ARIZONA HORIZON AND THEY PUT THE ADDRESS OF THE STUDIO.

I CHECKED BEFORE WE CAME ON AIR AND A REVISED ADDRESS IS NOT THERE YET.

I UNDERSTAND THE CLERICAL ERROR.

IF SOMEONE IS ACCUSED OF OR SHOWN TO BE TRYING TO PUT TO HAVE ON THE PUBLIC, AND AS LONG AS THE PUBLIC FINDS OUT OF IT.

THIS IS LAUNDERING OF ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

>> YES WE HAVE OF THE DIFFICULTIES HERE IS THAT THIS IS CLEARLY SO SHADY.

YOU CALL SOMEONE AND THEY ARE LIKE, I DON'T KNOW $2 MILLION NOR DO I KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS.

THAT'S NOT CORRECT.

AND IT'S NOT LEGAL TO JUST BE LYING ON THESE FORMS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I REMEMBER SOME OF THESE CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS FROM LIKE 2014 WERE JUST RESOLVED THIS YEAR.

AND THERE WERE THINGS THAT I FORGOT ABOUT.

>> WHOA.

>> SO THE SPEED AT WHICH, YOU KNOW, THE RESOLUTION HAPPENINGS PLAYS A ROLE IN THIS TOO OUR CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS ARE LIKE A SLAP ON THE WRIST AT MOST.

AND I MEAN, I DO THINK -- I DO THINK PEOPLE THINK MONEY IN POLITICS IS A PROBLEM.

BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW GRANULAR THEY GET WITH THOSE SORTS OF ISSUES.

>> YEAH.

GREAT STORY BY THE WAY.

>> I GUESS IT'S A GOOD THING THAT IRONY STILL EXISTS IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

>> GREAT JOB ON THAT, AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.

LETS TALK ABOUT THE STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS DECIDED THAT RUSTY BOWERS, LIFE-LONG REPUBLICAN ONCE CONSIDERED ONE OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE SLATE LEGISLATURE IS NO LONGER A REPUBLICAN IN GOOD STANDING.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT.

>> HE'S BEING PUNISHED FOR JANUARY 6th.

AND A COUPLE OF BILLS, I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT HE'S BEING PUNISHED BY THE CENTER OF ARIZONA POLICY FOR IMPLYING THAT HE SUPPORTS GAY RIGHTS, AND SAYING THAT WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT MORE NEXT YEAR.

AND MAYBE HAVE SOME EQUALITY LEGISLATION GOING FORWARD.

SO HE'S DONE A FEW THINGS THAT I THINK ARE HONESTLY POPULAR WITH A LOT OF THE VOTERS, BUT THAT KELLY WARD AND SOME OF THE OTHER REPUBLICANS DON'T LIKE.

>> DON'T LIKE AT ALL.

AND, AGAIN, THIS WAS -- THIS WAS HOURS I BELIEVE, AFTER DONALD TRIP OF MADE YESTERDAY ANOTHER ATTACK ON BOWERS.

SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE THE GUTS TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT A RIGGED AND STOLEN ELECTION AND HE KNEW HE WON IN 2020.

NO GUTS, HOURS LATER HERE COMES THIS CENSURE.

>> THIS IS -- IT IS THIS DEEP FRACTURE WITHIN THE PARTY.

THERE IS A TRUMP POP YOU LIFT WING TRYING TO GET A LOT OF RULE ARIZONA, DISAFFECTED PEOPLE WHO WAS NOT INVOLVED IN POLITICS BEFORE AND THE BUSINESS SIDE THE TRADITIONAL REPUBLICANS BOWERS, DUCEY, ET AL.

AND BOWERS MIGHT BE A POPULAR FIGURE NATIONALLY.

HE SAID TO NBC NEWS.

HE SAID IT WOULD TAKE A MILES AN HOUR MEDICAL FOR HIM TO WIN IN HIS OWN DISTRICT.

>> HE SAID AT THE TIME I DON'T WANT TO BE A WINNER BY CHEATING.

WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHEN A RUSTY BOWERS IS CONSIDERED PERSONA NON GRATA.

THE PARTY HAS MOVED SUPER FAR TO THE RIGHT UNDER KELLY WARD'S LEADERSHIP.

I THINK THAT'S IN PART HER VIEWS AND THEN IN PART, YOU KNOW, MAYBE HER AMBITIONS AFTER SHE'S DONE IN THE PARTY.

AND IT'S BIZARRE TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE BOWERS EVEN A NATIONAL SCALE.

HE'S A PERSON WHO IS NOT REALLY THAT HIGH PROFILE OR PREVIOUSLY WASN'T THAT HIGH PROFILE LOCALLY.

HE SPEAKS IN ALLEGORIES AND LIKE REALLY LONG, NOT A VERY QUOTABLE KIND OF GUY.

IT'S SO UNCOMFORTABLE.

THEY HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER SINCE HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY WERE RUN IN A DISTRICT WHERE THEY BOTH LIVE.

THEY ARE BOTH INVOLVED IN THE SAME FAITH COMMUNITY.

ALL LAYERS HERE IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT POLITICS.

THERE IS SO MUCH GOING ON.

THAT I AM SURE IT'S SO UNCOMFORTABLE FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED.

>> BUT IF YOU BELIEVE IT'S A HOLY WAR AS FAR AS THEY HAVE I WANT MATED IT IS, THAT THE DID HE HAVE IS INVOLVED IN THIS SOMEHOW.

MAYBE IT'S NOT UNCOMFORTABLE.

YOU TRULY BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

>> IS THIS WHAT THEY REALLY TRULY UNTIL.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT HOLY WAR.

I DID CALL FARNSWORTH AFTER THAT, HE HAD THE DEBATE WITH HANK MODERATING AND I SAID, SIR, WERE YOU USING A METAPHOR WHEN YOU SAID THE DEVIL STOLE THE ELECTION AND HE SAID NO, I WAS NOT.

>> YEAH.

>> GREAT.

ANYWAY, BUT THIS BOWERS THING, I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH A PERSONAL RETALIATION FROM TRUMP PARTY FOR JANUARY 6th FOR NOT SAYING THAT ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

TRUMP, REGARDLESS WHETHER OR NOT THE PERSON ET CETERA ATTACKING IS A REPUBLICAN HE CAN SAY THEY ARE NOT.

HE WENT AFTER RITA AND SAID SHE'S A RAINY THAT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE RADICAL LEFT THAT'S NOT HOW ANYONE I HAVE EVER MET WITH DESCRIBE MICHELLE RITA.

>> REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP WITH KELLY WARD, A COUPLE OF SENATE RACES LOFTING A ROUGH AND TUMBLE SENATE PRIMARY HERE.

MONEY RACING HAS APPARENTLY NOT BEEN WHAT IT ONCE WAS IN THE PAST.

WHY IS SHE STILL LEADING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THE BIG DONOR BASES AND THE MORE ESTABLISHMENT REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT WORKED WITH HIM WITH HER THEY HAVE WORKED AROUND HER.

THEY DON'T NEED HER OR THE PARTY AT THIS POINT.

THE PARTY IS SO LIKE I GUESS PURITY TEST ON BEING A REPUBLICAN SEEMS TO BE ALLEGIANCE TO THE 2020 ELECTION BEING STOLEN.

THE OTHER BONA FIDES FOR ALL OF THESE CONSERVATIVES, THEY ARE VERY CLEARLY REPUBLICANS.

IT'S NOT EVEN LIKE THEY ARE CENTRIST REPUBLICANS.

THEY ARE NOT MODERATES NECESSARILY, THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT ONE SORT OF ISSUE.

AND THAT'S MOLD THE THE ENTIRETY OF WHERE THE PARTY IS, THE STATE PARTY NOW.

IF WERE A DON OR YOU WOULDN'T DONATE TO THE PARTY YOU WOULD FIND A CANDIDATE AND PUT THE MONEY THERE.

>> WHAT GOOD IS THE STATE PARTY IF YOU ARE GOING TO WORK AROUND THEM NOT THROUGH THEM AND IF EVEN FROM JOHN McCAIN TO JEFF FLAKE, TO YOU KNOW, RUSTY BOWERS, YOU DON'T -- YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US ANYMORE.

>> I THINK I SAW THIS AFTERNOON MIKE PENCE BEING CALLED A RHINO.

>> A RHINO.

>> THERE IS AN IDENTITY CRISIS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PAEFRPLT THERE IS A BRANDING ISSUE.

WHETHER THE BRAND WILL WIN, I GUESS WE'LL FIND OUT IN ABOUT WITHIN TWO WEEKS TO WHETHER THERE IS ENOUGH.

YOU THINK BACK TO WHEN MITT ROMNEY LOST THE ELECTION FOR PRESIDENT, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAD A SOUL SEARCHING THING AND SAID WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BE WHAT WE ARE, WE HAVE TO EXPAND THE TENTS BECOME MORE MODERATE.

BRING IN DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND THERE WAS ANOTHER PLAYBOOK THE STEVE BANNON PLAYBOOK SAID, NO, WE ARE GOING TO FIND VOTERS WHO AREN'T CURRENTLY INTERESTED IN POLITICS AND GET THEM FASCINATED WITH POLITICS.

WELL SEE IF THAT WINS OUT.

>> WE WILL IT'S AN INTERESTING STRATEGY.

IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY CONTINUES TO BE FRACTURED LIKE THIS GOOD LUCK IN THE GENERAL ELECTION BECAUSE YOU HAVE INDEPENDENTS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT GOING ON.

I WANT TO TALK ABOUT KATHY HOFFMAN, SHE WANTS THE GOVERNOR TO CALL A SPECIAL SESSION BECAUSE EVEN IS PLEASED TO VARYING DEGREES ABOUT MONEY BEING FLOWING IN TO EDUCATION, THAT'S ALL GREAT.

IF YOU CAN'T USE IT BECAUSE OF THE SPENDING CAP THEN WHAT GOOD IS IT?

>> THIS COMES BACK TO THIS WHAT REALLY SEXY TITLE AGGREGATE EXPENDITURE LIMIT.

THAT WOULD SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO HAVE MONEY THEY CAN'T SPEND AND PROBABLY IN SHORT ORDER BECAUSE OF THE AMOUNT OF MONEY GOING IN TO SCHOOLS THIS YEAR.

AND RATHER THAN LIFT THAT CAP OR RESOLVE THE PROBLEM GOING FORWARD, LAWMAKERS HAVE KIND OF KEPT THAT ON THE TABLE AND THE BELIEF IS IT'S A NEGOTIATING TOOL FOR, YOU KNOW, THE EXPANSION OF VOUCHERS WHETHER THAT IS A REFERENDUM.

IT BECOMES A BATTLE FOR NEXT YEAR.

BUT THE PROBLEM STARTS BEFORE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> SO BASICALLY THEY ARE SAYING IF YOU PUT THIS -- TRY TOO PUT THIS BACK ON THE BALLOT.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO DEAL WITH IT.

SO WHAT, THE MONEY -- >> IT IS A BIT OF A WAR AND DEMOCRATS UNWITTINGLY WRIGGLED THEMSELVES BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD PLACE, THE DEMOCRATS WORK WITH REPUBLICANS GET THE BUDGET TOGETHER THE REPUBLICANS SAY WENT YOU TO HAVE ALL OF THIS EDUCATION SPENDING SO YOU'LL VOTE TO THE BUDGET AND SAY GREAT AND THINK THEY HAVE WON.

THERE ARE THINGS THEY DIDN'T LIKE BUT THE DEMOCRATS SIGNED ONTO IT BECAUSE OF THE EDUCATION FUNDING THEN OUTSIDE OF THE BUDGET BUT STILL HAVING IN THE LEGISLATURE THEY PASS THIS ESA BILL NO DEMOCRATS ON BOARD THEY DIDN'T NEED THEM TO BE.

AND THEN KNOW IT'S OVER THE DEMOCRATS SAYING YEAH, THE ED GROUPS ARE TRYING TO GET SIGNATURES AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, OH, NO, IF YOU STOP ESAs YOU DON'T GET ANYTHING THAT YOU THOUGHT YOU WON IN THE SESSION, YOU DON'T GET OF THAT EDUCATION FUNDING WE ARE NOT GOING TO RAISE THE LIMIT AND YOU ARE NO BETTER OFF THAN YOU YOU WERE BEFORE AND GOT IN VICTORY IT DIDN'T BEHOOVE YOU TO SIGN ON WITH US, SO YOU HAVE TO TAKE THE EVIL OF THE ESAs IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT OR SAY, NO, LET THE EDUCATION GROUPS DO WHAT THEY WANT AND SUFFER THROUGH NOT GETTING ANY OF THE EDUCATION FUNDING THAT YOU WERE CROWING ABOUT.

>> IT'S NOT AN IMPLIED THREAT SENATOR LIVINGSTON THREAT 10ED WAR.

HE SAID THIS IS THE WAY IT WILL BE.

>> AND I ALSO FOLLOWED UP WITH HIM AND HE ALSO DOUBLED DOWN ON IT.

HE SAID, YES, THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE WERE ALWAYS GOING TO DO, BASICALLY.

>> SO WHAT DOES THE GOVERNOR DOING IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS?

>> WELL, I GUESS IT DOES DEPEND ON WHETHER IT COMES TO FORE.

THE GOVERNOR PROBABLY WANTS TO WALK OUT OF THE OFFICE HAVING PUMPED A LOT OF MONEY IN TO EDUCATION.

HE'S BEEN THE EDUCATION GOVERNOR OF THE AS HE PROCLAIMED HIM SEVEN THE LAST FEW YEARS.

DOES HE HAVE LEVERAGE BECAUSE HE'S NOT POPULAR WITH SMELLMENTS OF HIS OWN PARTY.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT TYPICALLY WHEN PEOPLE DIDN'T PAY THAT MUCH ATTENTION TO POLITICS WE JUST RAISE THE CAP.

>> RIGHT.

IT'S ALLOWING THE SPEND OF MONEY THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED.

NOW IT IS A POLITICAL 11, WE ARE FOR EDUCATION SPENDING AND NOW IT'S A LITMUS TEST.

>> IT AROUND DO DECADES AND NO THEY ARE SAYING YOU CAN'T SPEND IT.

AND IT MAKE ZERO SENSE TO DO THIS.

>> IT MAKE PERFECT SENSE.

>> SO WHAT DOES THE GOVERNOR DO?

>> PROBABLY NOT A SPECIAL SESSION.

IS MAKES SENSE FOR ASK FOR ONE.

IF WE WERE IN NORMAL TIMES PERHAPS IT GETS RESOLVED QUICKLY IN A SPECIAL CERTAINLY.

IF THAT WERE THE CASE.

SHE CAN ASK FOR IT LITTLE I WOULD BE SHOCK FIRST DEGREE DUCEY WENT WITH IT.

IT'S HIS LAST YEAR.

AND HE DOESN'T HAVE TO RESOLVE THE PROBLEM IF HE DOESN'T WANT TO.

WOE DON'T KNOW HOW TO BUDGET, YOU ARE SUGGESTING THEY SHOULD BUDGET WITHOUT THOSE INCREASES BECAUSE IT'S THE WAY OF THE LAND.

>> IF I WERE THE GOVERNOR I WOULD WALK OUT BECAUSE HE CAN SIGH I DID WHAT YOU ASKED ME TO I DID WHAT THEY ASKED ME TO IT'S NOT MY FAULT IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM NOW.

>> ISN'T THAT LIKE TELLING YOUR KILLED I GAVE YOU THE ALLOWANCE AND YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.

>> HERE IS THE CHECK GOOD LUCK CASHING IT AT YOUR BANK.

AND THE LAWMAKERS HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY ARE NOT AFRAID OF OF THE PUBLIC.

IT HAS PASSED MEASURES WANTING MONEY AND STOPPING THE EXPANSION OF SCHOLARSHIP ACCOUNTS AND THEY STILL DEEP IGNORE THE VOTERS SAYING, OH, NO, IT'S DIFFERENT NOW.

>> REAL QUICK IF THAT DRIVES GETS OUT THERE, COULD IT SUCCEED?

>> IT SUCCEEDED LAST TIME.

I DON'T KNOW WHY IT WOULDN'T THIS TIME.

THE THINGS ARE THE BALLOT ARE ALL BALLOT MEASURES WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> WE WILL.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU ALL HERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US, THAT IS IT FOR NOW I AM TED SIMONS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, YOU ARE A GREAT EVENING.

♪♪ MUSIC PLAYING ♪♪ >>> COMING UP IN THE NEXT HALF HOUR ON ARIZONA PBS ON "CRONKITE NEWS", MEET THE FIRST NATIVE AMERICAN SOCCER PLAYER IN THE NATIONAL WOMEN'S SOCCER LEAGUE AND BREAKING DOWN HOW COMPANIES ARE USING SOCIAL ISSUES IN ADVERTISING CAMPAIGNS.

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