- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum.

It's all about the HBCUs, their history, what they stand for, and their impact on our communities.

Stay with us.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to Black Issues Forum, I'm Kenia Thompson.

HBCUs are a source of accomplishment and great pride for the African American community as well as the entire nation.

The Amended Higher Education Act of 1965 defines an HBCU as quote, any historically Black college or university that was established prior to 1964 whose principal mission was, and is the education of Black Americans.

HBCUs offer all students regardless of race and opportunity to develop their skills and talents.

Right here in North Carolina, we are home to 11 of these historic institutions with four of them being ranked in the top 15 across the nation.

As a tribute to HBCU week, this week, we invite our guests to discuss their work in this space and its impact.

Welcome to the show, HBCU Heroes, co-founder George Lynch, along with director of programming for CREED Kamille Bostick.

Welcome.

- Well, thank you.

Thanks for having us.

- Of course.

Well, I wanna start off by, George, you telling us exactly what HBCU Heroes does and what your focus is for the nonprofit - HBCU Heroes started when I was coaching at an HBCU, Clark Atlanta University down in Atlanta, Georgia, and the whole, this whole purpose was to level the playing field for student athletes at HBCUs.

We started the nonprofit, Tracy Pennywell and I, right around COVID right after COVID hit.

And the sole purpose was to support students who wanted to attend HBCUs financially, support them with the admissions.

And then we carried over into, you know what a student from a HBCU would like to do career wise after they graduate.

You know, we talk to so many students and a lot of 'em say that, you know, fortune 500 companies don't come to their HBCU, and a lot of that's because most of the HBCUs are hard to get into the mostly located in the Southeast, in very small rural areas.

So for a corporation or recruiter to travel into one of those small towns, it's a little bit challenging, not an excuse but sometimes are challenging to fit the schedule thing.

- Yeah.

I can imagine.

Kamille, I wanna come to you an overview of what you do for CREED and how that connects with HBCU Heroes.

- Absolutely.

So I am the Director of Programming at the Center for Racial Equity and Education, or CREED.

And we are a North Carolina based a nonprofit.

with the goal to make sure that the educational outcomes of students of color are improved in this state.

And we're here to make sure that we push for equity lenses, whether that's pre-K all the way through the postgraduate situation in education.

And so about two years ago, CREED was really looking at the educational landscape and we began looking at how North Carolina is home, as you mentioned to 11 HBCUs 10 of which are fully accredited four year institutions.

And it's, how do we make sure that those institutions who have been around for so long are actually getting and thriving in doing what they need?

So we went on the listening tour in April of last year through August, we visited all 10 of the four year institutions listened to really what was happening there.

Talk with them.

We have built with them a collaborative we're more of like a strategy partner.

And as part of that, we are listening, working with the NC10 itself to make sure that they get their needs met and their ideas out there.

And we are helping them put their voice out there for what they want and need as institutions in the 21st century.

- Now, many aren't quite aware of what those differences are between HBCU experiences and other schools.

Myself, for example, I went to a very small private college here in the triangle.

I'd love to hear from both of you.

What does that experience look like?

George, you know, when someone talks about that HBCU experience, what is that like?

- For me, I didn't go to an HBCU but worked at a HBCU for a few years and now being involved with HBCU Heroes, Most HBCUs probably is about 35 or 4,000 students, 4,500, maybe at the max.

So you get that one on one, you get that personal contact and relationship with the teachers where they can they really get to know your name.

You know, I went to Chapel Hill where it was anywhere from 300 students in a classroom, other than me being six, say six eight, tall being on the basketball team.

Professors don't really know who you are, but in a smaller setting, like an HBCU campus, you really get to the relationships and in the sense of family a lot because of the the small nature of the campus.

- [Kenia] Yeah.

Kamille was your experience undergrad or graduate on an HBCU campus?

- Neither actually, but I too also taught at HBCUs.

And in the conversations that I've had with so many folks who are there as students, alumni, they actually talk about what George spoke up of this feeling of being at home, of not having to not be yourself, where people not only know your name but they know your story and they care and you don't have to feel like you are an outsider.

It's definitely a culture of caring and a spirit of I'm here and I can bring my whole self to it.

And you can tell on like, homecoming, of course but you definitely can feel it every day when you walk on those campuses, just the close knit nature of it all.

- Yeah.

I recall 'cause I was down the street from about two or three HBCUs and I would always kind of sneak over to campus just to see what that experience was like.

And it was a world of difference and I always thought, well why didn't I go here?

But you know, some of the things that I would hear my peers talk about was the educational differences or the needs that they needed.

So Kamille I'd love to hear what are some of the most overlooked needs among HBCUs.

- I think what we found in listening and talking continuously with the 10 HBCUs, the four year HBCUs in North Carolina, is that there is the need to have more investment in infrastructure and the things about the actual buildings that are on campus.

There's the need to really think about the funding and how it will be funded.

HBCUs are historically, currently, whether they are private or public, and then also just the need to understand like, their impact and all of the things that actually they need to support their students and make sure that their students are thriving as scholars.

- Yeah, and part of that impact that you talked about I think is in the programs, right?

What the students actually go through.

George, I know that HBCU Heroes raises money for some of these on campus programs.

What types of programs do you guys support or raise money for and what types of students do they produce when we're actually investing into these programs?

- Well, we're a young nonprofit, you know, about four years into it, so, a lot of the research on what the students have done after the program hadn't been gathered, but we do bring corporations like Amazon, MAI Capital financial institutions to the campuses, tech corporations to different campuses so that the students get to meet them personally.

A lot of times this is friendships, people we know form a partnership with HBCU Heroes.

So we are able to bring them to campus and actively get involved and sit down and look at the resumes of some of these bright students that come out of HBCUs.

- Hm-mm.

And when students have the opportunity to do that, do you see a change?

I know that whenever I would have the opportunity to sit in front of an employer or to sit in front of an opportunity, going to a small college, that afforded me that too.

What do you see as far as the inspiration and the hope that you find in the children when we're starting to really invest back into our students?

- I think it's, they have a self awareness of their confidence, someone really cares about them, took the time to come in and speak to them.

You know, we, at HBCU Heroes try to take away all barriers.

We want students to be comfortable in what they wear when they come talk to these corporations, so it's really not a dress-up affair, just come as you are.

We don't want any of those barriers keeping students from being able to attend and we've had our most success by going to the campuses.

This past Final Four in New Orleans we were able to get David Xavier dealer and UNO, Southern UNO to the campus of Dallas because of the proximity of all three campuses being close and in New Orleans.

So that was a great experience, the students loved it, they got to go behind the scenes and see how Final Fours were produced.

Warner Brothers and AT&T sat down with some of their top execs to talk to students about being in that industry, and it was a all around great experience for both myself, HBCU Heroes' Co-founder and the students who attended.

- Yeah.

Now, I know historically in the past, some numbers have been kind of skewed, right?

Going down and going up as far as enrollment goes, Kamille, I know that HBCUs compete with a lot of the local state universities and now even community colleges.

What have we seen in enrollment numbers if that's something that you could speak to?

Is there a decline in the enthusiasm of attending an HBCUs?

- Actually, I think over the past few years HBCUs have been experiencing a renaissance of sort.

They've never actually gone, like out of favor, though you were seeing that competition for students once, the historically, well, predominantly white colleges and others were, you know, accepting Black students.

They talk about how it was sort of, you know, a creaming off of the best of the best.

And so, but that's really turned lately, after the pandemic, thinking about things that have happened, you know, post the George Floyd protest, a lot of students are choosing and have been choosing HBCUs for the fact of not having to be in institutions that don't see them, that don't understand what it means to be a Black student in America at this point and having to always justify their existence.

So Forbes put out a article recently just about that resurgence of what's happening with HBCUs in terms of enrollment, and I think all of our NC10 colleges are reporting increased enrollment for the last few years.

So I think it's been very interesting to kind of watch what we thought was the narrative around who's choosing an HBCU and actually what's happening in the last two years over what we're seeing students do.

And the students are very vocal about the idea that they are choosing their HBCUs because they want places of affirmation and excellence.

And HBCUs are delivering, especially the ones in North Carolina for that.

- Right.

And I think that's great and I think the opportunity there is in strengthening in partnerships in our community, right?

And so when we talk about the importance of these schools partnering with, not just employers but local community, non-profits, other businesses, George, how does that really help with sustaining some of these programs at the school?

- It's definitely, we spoke on it earlier.

A lot of HBCUs, as far as admissions, applications, you know, corporations investing back in the HBCUs, it hadn't been where it should be compared to some of the PWI.

So anytime we're able to bring awareness to it, share the light of the bright students that come out of HBCUs and then help corporations with their DEI initiatives, I think it helps with both ways.

You know, students from HBCUs can show how bright and brilliant they are, and corporations can build that relationship, that bridge where they continue to go into HBCUs and find the brightest of the bright students.

- And, you know, part of finding the brightest of the bright is also allowing our students to be competitive when we go out in this workforce.

Kamille, I know you deal with racial equity.

How does that translate into the actual curriculum, the majors that our HBCUs are offering to our students?

- It's one of the things that we've been noticing in the North Carolina HBCUs say that they are doing, is that they are making sure their graduates are competitive and ready to take their place in this global economy.

So you're seeing a lot of new programming, I think there's a eSports program getting created at Livingstone.

We hear about aviation at Elizabeth City State you can think about cybersecurity.

I think a lot of the HBCUs are really pushing themselves forward in terms of what they're offering students so they can be competitive, but also making sure that the students who are going there, the black students actually have that access to make sure that they're ready for the careers of the future.

And you mentioned partnership, I think is very important that a lot of the companies really understand the talent that has been at HBCUs.

They've been at the forefront of creating social mobility and making sure that black students and black scholars and graduates are out there.

There've produced many of the STEM graduates that we see and are, you know, beacons of social mobility by getting those connections to say like once a student has matriculated through one of the NC10 is there a job waiting because those companies in North Carolina and beyond are really ready to kind of tap into that talent.

There's some gaps there that need to really continue to get built.

But I think the HBCUs are up for the challenge and the students are definitely there.

So it's just a matter of people kind of meeting in the middle and saying, we're ready to do what we need to do because it's happening.

And the students and the programs exist and they're getting ready every single day for the next steps.

- Yeah.

And it's good to hear, right that they're, the schools are being cognizant about what's needed.

How do we keep our students competitive?

'cause that's one of the major issues I think when we try to market ourselves with an HBCU on our resume, you know, people are gonna ask, "Well how does this compare to NC state or another state school?"

And so, you know, we wanna say it compares just as equally.

And I think that having those competitive programs are one of the major ways to be able to do that.

Now, when we talk about affordability and financial assistance for our students, George are we finding that we're able to provide scholarships for our students so that they can take advantage of some of these programs and education that's out there?

- Yeah.

That's been the challenge.

You hear a lot of the the brighter students who want to attend an HBCU doesn't have the opportunity because maybe Georgia Tech will offer more money or, you know Duke or the PWIs who have the endowments.

You know, the challenge for us is the economic mobility, our people of color having the same opportunities to work at these corporates where they have incomes to either give back to an HBCU.

But anyone, that's why we started HBCU Rules.

Anyone can give back to an HBCU.

If you're a person of color and you have five or $10 just, you know, assign it to any HBCU you know, that's the difference between PWIs and HBCUs I think is PWIs have more alumni that is willing to give back.

And where the HBCUs have alumni but the numbers are a little skewed compared to what they can give back and how many is giving back.

- Yeah, I think there's a distinction there what they want to give back versus what they can, and you know, that goes back again to providing that quality programming so that they can go out and compete.

Now, I'm not sure if you guys know, but are there are we seeing a rising number of entrepreneurship from HBCU colleges?

And what does that mean for the future of, you know our business landscape and black ownership of business?

Either one.

- Go ahead, you can take it.

- I don't have like recent numbers on entrepreneurship but I do think the legacy of HBCUs has always been that they have provided educational opportunity in spaces where it would have been denied otherwise.

Like the predominantly white institutions are predominantly white because they've been historically white.

We know that there have been barriers to blacks getting educated in the United States and HBCUs have filled that gap since 1865 and beyond, right?

And so I think there's the legacy that is black entrepreneurship largely comes because there has been HBCUs who are not only, you know, building the scholars, but building the networks and the communities of networks that exist.

So I am thoughtful and hopeful and I know that it's continuing I hear a lot of students saying that they want to create the next thing that they're being trained for.

They're not all looking to just be, you know a cog of somebody else's corporate workforce.

I do wanna, you know, take it back to a quick moment to giving and the need for scholarships.

The thing about alumni from HBCUs is because, you know, you know, racism in America, is that a lot of times when you are a graduate you're not always given the capacity to make your full earning potential for so many different barriers that happen with the the corporates and how they hire and who they choose to feel like are qualified.

And so I think our HBCU alumni want to give but just given the factor that, you know, the black wealth gap exists, that they're not able to give at levels that match what happens to let's say at those graduates of the PWI levels.

So I think at some point we have to have that reckoning of what's happening systemically that's affecting the HBCU alumni base and what can happen if we were to strengthen that and make sure we remove barriers for graduates.

Lastly is for the terms of scholarship, I hear a lot of students say that they would love to continue at HBCU or any institution but because college affordability is such an issue.

And when we look at really like the black student debt that exists, we need folks to invest in students.

They want to, and they can achieve academically but they're just so much price difference in what they can do when they have to deal with their families, and trying to make sure, you can't work a 40 hour a week job and also be a full-time student.

But many of our students are trying to do that because this is what, you know, our economic system has essentially left for them.

So if we can give let's give and make sure we're supporting the students.

- Yeah, for sure.

And, you know, I've noticed also the diversity of student enrollment and population now at HBCUs.

So are we seeing more non-minority students enrolling?

Camille, I'll come back to you for that question.

- I think maybe the figure's about 24% of the enrollment in HBCUs in North Carolina is non students of color because they're providing wonderful opportunities for all students.

The black students of course, are gonna feel affirmed, they're gonna have that history and that legacy of being like, we accept people holistically on our campus.

But the programs are excellent and one of the things that we're really striving for with the NC10 work is to make sure people understand just how much that the institutions are wonderful spaces, providing quality education to so many students from all walks of life - Our Black universities and colleges are up for the task, and there are many people who are not Black students who are saying, "I want a piece of that," and actually be very thoughtful and happy about it once they've gone.

- Yeah, and I think it's, you know, it's flattering.

- I have a great story.

Go ahead.

- I have a great story on that.

I was sitting in Sutton's Diner the weekend of the FAMU, UNC Chapel Hill game and a judge came in and he attended Chapel Hill, and he sat down and was talking to us and he was telling us the only reason that he is a judge because he was able to go to North Carolina Central.

He didn't say he applied to UNC or Duke Law School, one of the bigger PWIs and didn't get in.

He said, the reason why he's a judge because Central gave him an opportunity to go to law school.

So that shows you that people of different race and backgrounds attend HBCUs.

- Yeah.

And I think- - One more thing.

We need more men to apply to HBCUs.

They're giving out a lot of scholarships for men who's academically eligible to attend college.

- Mm, well, I hope our viewers are listening to that.

And that's an interesting statistic that we do.

I think a lot of women go to school.

I think the numbers are a little skewed, but that's a good knowledge to have to know that there are scholarship, there's money out there, there's a desire to see our men on these campuses.

So that's good to know.

George, I know that HBCU Heroes is joining forces with UNC Chapel Hill to host HBCU Celebration Game Career Fest.

During this fest, you're gonna pair with job seekers with companies seeking to boost DEI metrics.

And so, I kinda wanted to talk about why is this important and are those DEI metrics just to check a box or are we really requiring our folks to be intentional about this?

- We're hoping companies are being intentional and have a directive of trying to close that economic gap.

So much money is made off of Black and brown people throughout the years in America, but we haven't been given the same opportunities work-wise, so being able to bring PWIs like North Carolina who's basically probably four schools, four that North Carolina HBCUs within 30 minutes from Chapel Hill.

To bring those groups together on campus, it just feeds that bridge, building that bridge in that community together faster than trying to do it alone.

- Yeah.

I think it's a great effort.

And I really do hope that the intention is true from these companies that are seeking to boost their metrics.

I think we talk about DEI.

It's a buzzword, it's a buzz term, but it's really important to actually do the work behind creating these spaces for our Black and brown students to infiltrate into some of these companies.

Kamille, do you have anything that you could add about that dealing racial equity?

- I think your spot on.

The idea that it can seem a little transactional sometimes to say, well, we'll connect with you on the other side.

A lot of the HBCUs are asking for things like what's the the pipeline looking like?

Can we get internships?

Can we make sure that our students are able once they leave to go into companies that respect them and understand them and aren't gonna isolate them.

And so, I think the conversations have definitely started.

The intentionality is there but we wanna see it happen more so that the students themselves are getting that opportunity and they can feel welcome from the start and not like they are the afterthought or like you mentioned, the box to check.

But definitely from what I'm hearing, from a lot of the partners that I've been hearing, are talking to our NC10 institutions.

There are lots of good traction toward making sure that graduates of HBCUs are going into those corporate faces and those organizations beyond that are ready for them and open arms for them.

- Wonderful.

George, I wanna leave you with the last words here.

Share with people how they can donate or how they can be part of HBCU Heroes if they would like to.

- Yes, anyone that would like to donate, we're on all the social media threads, LinkedIn, Instagram Twitter, Facebook, and we have a link, donate@hbcus.org.

- And we'll flash it on the screen for our viewers as well.

But I just wanna thank you both for being here with us today, George Lynch and Kamille Bostick.

Thank you.

- Thank you.

- I wanna thank today's guests for joining us.

We invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram using the #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify or Google Podcasts.

For "Black Issues Forum," I'm Kenya Thompson.

Thanks for watching.

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