FLASH FLOODING CAN HAPPEN ANYWHERE AND AT ANY TIME.

IT'S ONE OF THE DEADLIEST NATURAL DISASTERS BECAUSE IT COMBINES THE DESTRUCTIVE POWER OF A FLOOD WITH RAPID SPEED, CATCHING MANY PEOPLE OFF GUARD.

DATA FROM RECENT INCIDENTS HERE AND AROUND THE COUNTRY INDICATE THAT FLASH FLOODS COULD HAPPEN MORE OFTEN AND WITH MORE INTENSITY.

SO, HOW PREPARED ARE WE TO FACE THIS THREAT?

TONIGHT'S LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM OF INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I START NOW.

♪ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I.

I'M DARYL HUFF.

ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE, A FLASH FLOOD IS FLOODING THAT BEGINS WITHIN SIX HOURS, AND OFTEN IN AS LITTLE AS THREE HOURS OF HEAVY RAINFALL.

IT'S THE NATION'S TOP STORM- RELATED CAUSE OF DEATH AS WATERS RISE QUICKLY, CATCHING PEOPLE OFF GUARD.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE HAS ISSUED A RECORD NUMBER OF FLASH FLOOD WARNINGS THIS YEAR.

EXPERTS ATTRIBUTE THE INCREASE TO A COMBINATION OF FACTORS INCLUDING CLIMATE CHANGE, IMPROVED FORECASTING AND URBANIZATION.

TONIGHT WE'RE ASKING OUR PANEL IF THE THREAT OF FLASH FLOODS IN HAWAI'I IS MORE FREQUENT, MORE SEVERE AND WHO'S MOST AT RISK?

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS, AND YOU'LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII YOUTUBE PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

ELTON USHIO HAS BEEN WITH THE KAUA'I EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY SINCE 2003 AND HAS BEEN LEADING THE DEPARTMENT FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.

DURING HIS TIME THERE, THE AGENCY HAS RESPONDED TO MULTIPLE MAJOR DISASTERS INCLUDING THE KA LOKO DAM FAILURE IN 2006 AND THE RECORD SETTING RAIN BOMB IN APRIL OF 2018.

EDWIN MATSUDA IS A LICENSED CIVIL ENGINEER AT THE DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURCES.

HE IS CURRENTLY THE FLOOD CONTROL AND DAM SAFETY SECTION HEAD, WHICH OVERSEES THE HAWAI'I DAM SAFETY PROGRAM, THE HAWAI'I GENERAL FLOOD CONTROL PLAN AND THE HAWAI'I NATIONAL FLOOD INSURANCE PROGRAM.

ALISON NUGENT IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES AT UH MANOA.

SHE EARNED HER PH.D IN GEOLOGY AND GEOPHYSICS FROM YALE UNIVERSITY AND HER BACHELOR OF SCIENCE DEGREE FROM HARVARD.

HER RESEARCH INTERESTS INCLUDE OROGRAPHIC OR MOUNTAIN MOUNTAIN RAINFALL AND EXTREME RAINFALL IN THE TROPICS.

AND PATRICK BLOOD IS A METEROLOGIST WITH THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.

HE'S BEEN A NWS FORECASTER FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES, PREVIOUSLY WORKING IN THE HOUSTON-GALVESTON, TEXAS OFFICE.

HE'S PREVIOUSLY WORKED AS A BROADCAST METEOROLOGIST AND IS A U.S.

AIR FORCE VETERAN.

HAWAII ALL EXPERIENCED FLASH FLOODS ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.

SOMETIMES OFTEN NEAR OUR HOUSE.

BOUNCE OFF SOME OF YOU FOLKS WHAT YOUR MEMORIES ARE, MOST MEMORABLE FLOOD EXPERIENCE YOU'VE HAD.

KAUAI HAD ITS SHARE.

>> MOST MEMORABLE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE WITH FLASH FLOODING EVEN BEFORE MY WORK IN EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT.

AS A CHILD GROWING UP ONLINE KAUAI, AND HAVING ACTIVE OUTDOOR RECREATIONAL LIFESTYLE, WITH ALL THE RAINFALL THAT KAUAI GETS RIVERS AND STREAMS, EXPERIENCED THOSE FIRSTHAND ATTRATTIMES OUT AND ABOUT.

GIVEN AM I AT LOT OF RESPECT FOR POWER OF FLASH FLOOD AND MOTHER NATURE.

>>Daryl: YOU DEAL WITH DAM PROGRAM.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN EXPERIENCED STRIKES YOU THINK ABOUT FLASH FLOODING?

>> AS CHILD SIMILAR, I'VE SEEN SOME OF THOSE FLOODS FIRSTHAND THAT HAVE COME THROUGH LIKE THE NE NEW YEAR'S FLOODS CAME THROUGH OUR NEIGHBORHOOD SOME OF THE DAMAGE.

AND IN THE DAM SAFETY PROGRAM NOW, WE'VE SEEN SEVERAL DAMS HAVE HAD OVER TOPPING INCIDENCES JUST THE DESTRUCTION THAT CAN COME AFTER THAT, ACTUALLY RATHER TERRIFYING.

>>Daryl: ALISON NUGENT WITH U.H.

MANOA SOMETHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE WAY HAWAII AND A AWAY THIS HAPPENS?

SEEN ANYTHING ABOUT HAWAII JUMPS OUT ATTRIBUTE YOU.

>> I THINK THAT FOR FLASH FLOODING, NUMBER OF INGREDIENTS A LOT OF MOISTURE.

NEED TO HAVE SOME S SORT SOURCE OF UP LIFT MOUNTAINS IN THE TROPICS REALLY MOST OF A THINK THOSE TWO INGREDIENTS REALLY MAKE US PRONED TO FLASH FLOODING.

>>Daryl: NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WHAT STRIKES YOU EXPERIENCED IN YOUR HISTORY THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEWERS TO KNOW HOW BAD THIS COULD BE?

>> WELL, I HAVE MY OWN PERSONAL HORROR STORY GOING THROUGH HURRICANE HARVEY BACK IN 2017.

I WOULD JUST LET FOLKS KNOW THAT THINK ABOUT YOUR PLAN DURING PERIODS OF DRY WEATHER.

THINK ABOUT YOUR PARTICULAR SITUATION.

AND WHAT YOU WOULD GO IF FACED WITH FLASH FLOODING.

IS IT SAFE TO LEAVE YOUR HOME?

DAY OR NIGHT TIME?

FOR ME, I WAS STUCK AT THE OFFICE DURING HARVEY.

MY FAMILY SAFE, IN THE HOUSE, WE HAD TO EVACUATE.

AND WE HAVE A SAYING IN THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE THAT IF YOU'RE ON THE ROAD AND WATER ON THE ROADWAY, TURN AROUND.

DO NOT DROWN.

IF YOU'RE OUTEN ON THE ROAD, BE CAREFUL OF ANY TYPE OF MOVING WATER.

DOESN'T TAKE MUCH TO LIFT YOUR CAR.

ONCE YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR, COULD BE A COFFIN.

VERY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

>>Daryl: HAVE WE SEEN ANYONE CAN PITCH IN ON THIS, ARE WE SEEING INCREASE IN FLASH FLOODING IN HAWAII?

DOES THAT DOCUMENTED?

IS THAT DOCUMENTED?

>> I WOULD HAVE TO DEFER TO WEATHER ON THAT AS FAR AS FREQUENTLY OF INCIDENCES I KNOW FOR EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ALWAYS HAD A LOT OF ACTIVATIONS FOR FLASH FLOOD WARNINGS.

VARIES FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH MOISTURE WE HAVE ON THE GIVEN YEAR.

THIS YEAR FOR EXAMPLE, WET SEASON, WASN'T THAT ACTIVE COMPARATIVELY, BUT WE DID STILL HAVE A NUMBER OF ACTIVATIONS.

>> EASY FOR FOCUS ON STATISTICS HERE IN HAWAII WE DON'T GET THE NUMBER OF FLASH FLOODED THAT WE NORMALLY SEE ON THE MAINLAND.

IT'S THAT NOT FALLING SLEEP, BEING SITUATIONAL WHERE ON AVERAGE, ISSUE ABOUT 40* FLASH FLOOD WARNINGS A YEAR IN HAWAII.

>>Daryl: TALKING EARLIER YOU SAID THAT SOME PLACE ON MAINLAND, SPECTACULAR MORE THAN THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE'RE JUST DOING A STUDY OF PARTICULAR AREAS ON THE MAINLAND THAT IT ISSUE FLASH FLOODS AND AREA P POD OUT WAS DESERT SOUTHWEST OFFICE FLAGSTAFF ARIZONA, ISSUE 2,000 ON AVERAGE EVERY LAST TEN YEARS OVER 2,000.

JUST BECAUSE OF FACT THEY'RE SO DRY FOR SO LONG.

GET MONSOON FLOW BUNCH OF RAIN OVER DRY AREA.

CAUSE FLASHING FLOODS.

HEAR THAT WAVE COMING ATTRIBUTE YOU.

DANG YOU RUSS ABOUT FLASH FLOODING HIT YOU SO DANGEROUS ABOUT FLASH FLOODING HIT YOU SO QUICKLY YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE.

>>.

ON ISLANDS MAKES IT WORSE.

PRETTY MUCH ACCESS SELL RAIL -AS MAUKA TO MAKAI.

QUICK.

WATER COMES DOWN HOUR SOMETIMES LESS.

>>Daryl: ALWAYS GOOD ATTRIBUTE WARNING PEOPLE IN HAWAII?

IS IT BECAUSE THE WEATHER STOPS MOUNTAIN BUT SOMETIMES GO DOWN ONE VALUE AIDEN NOT THE OTHER VALLEY.

ONE VALLEY NOT THE OTHER AVAILABILITY.

GETS KIND BAFFLING WHAT ABOUT TO OUR TOPOGRAPHY MAKES FLASH FLOODING IN HAWAII DIFFERENT THAN OTHER PLACES.

>> WATERSHEDS IN HAWAII SMALL COMPARED TO MAINLAND.

RAINFALLS HERE VERSUS HERE.

MIGHT BE IN THIS VALLEY VERSUS THIS VALLEY.

FORECASTS ARE GOOD INGREDIENTS ARE HERE.

HIGH CHANCE THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET SOME HEAVY RAINFALL.

BUT EXACT LOCATION IS REALLY HARD TO PINPOINTED.

MODEL TO MODEL EVEN IF YOU RUN 50 DIFFERENT MODELS THEY'RE ALL GOING TO GIVE YOU DIFFERENT ANSWERS GET R HEAVY RAINS FALL SOMEWHERE.

MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THE PEOPLE ONLINE GROUND.

WATERSHEDS THEMSELVES ARE REALLY STEEP AND NARROW AND SO THEY FUNNEL WATER REALLY QUICKLY TO THE LOWEST POINTS.

AND THAT'S HOW IT ACCUMULATES AND BUILDS UP LEADS TO SUCH HIGH HAZARD.

>>Daryl: ONE OF YOUR JOBS IS TROYTRY TO CREATE MAPS MIGHT HAPPEN IF A DAM FAILS.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE HOW YOU FIGURE THAT OUT?

>> SURE, CONTRACTED WITH CONSULTANTS, MOST OF OUR EVACUATION MAPS WERE ACTUALLY MODELS FROM THE PACIFIC CENTER ON MAUI.

THEY DISASTER CENTER ON MAUI.

RUN IT THROUGH A 2D, ENGINEERING MODEL USING THE TOPOGRAPHY THAT'S THERE AND SIMULATE DA DAM FAILURES DAM FUL OF WATER.

NO OUTSIDE RAINFALL.

SUNNY DAY BREECHES.

THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU MIGHT EXPERIENCE DURING A FLASH FLOOD WHERE DAM WOULD FILL UP AND THEN OVERFLOW.

IT WOULD BE A LITTLE BIT MORE FOR RAIN EVENT BUT IT IS ALSO SOMEWHAT CONSERVATIVE LOOK ATTRIBUTE WHAT IT WOULD BE BECAUSE NORMALLY LIKE CALL A SUNNY DAYBREAK LIKE THAT, NO REAL WARNING.

LIKE A TRUE FLASH FLOOD IN A SENSE WHERE IT JUST COMES UPON THE PEOPLE DOWNSTREAM IF THEY'RE NOT AWARE.

>>Daryl: BUT IF YOU'RE DOING A MAP, YOU HAVE TO BE AS PRECISE AS YOU CAN BE RIGHT?

SOMEBODY ONE SIDE OF THE MAP IS GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR FLOOD INSURANCE AND OTHER SIDE, OF THE LINE, IS OFF THE HOOK.

IS THAT WHAT THOSE MAPS ARE PRIMARILY FOR?

>> NO.

SO YEAH.

>>Daryl: WE MENTIONED INTRODUCTION THE FLOOD ZONE MAPS, THEY'RE NOT IN YOUR PURVIEW?

>> SO THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT MAPS THERE.

FLOOD INSURANCE RATE MAP.

WHICH FEMA ACTUALLY DEVELOPS THROUGHOUT THE NATION.

THOSE ARE THE MAP THAT IS ARE TILACTUALLY USED FOR DETERMINING FLOOD INSURANCE.

THAT'S BEEN HOW FEMA WOULD ASSIGN RATES.

HAS A NEW RATING SYSTEM 2.0 THAT THEY DO.

THERE'S A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT GO INTO IT.

HOW CLOSE ARE YOU FROM THE SHORELINE.

TOPOGRAPHY.

AROUND YOUR IMMEDIATE AREA OF HYOUR HOUSE.

FAR AWAY YOU ARE FROM A STREAM.

DIFFERENT FACTORS COME INTO PLAY HOW THEY RATE YOUR FLOOD INSURANCE.

DAM EVACUATION MAP THAT WE HAVE MENTIONED EARLIER, THOSE ARE CURRENTLY NOT INCLUDED IN THE INSURANCE D CALCULATIONS FEMA USES.

>>Daryl: IF YOUR EXPERIENCE ON KAUAI, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE ON KAUAI HOW PREDICABLE ARE THOSE COURSES WHERE A FLOOD MIGHT GO?

SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GETTING SURPRISED BY WHERE THE FLOODING HAPPENS EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT HAPPEN SAME PLACE, NEVER SAW IT LIKE THIS BEFORE.

>> SO WE HAVEN'T HAD DAM FAILURE IN THE TIME WHEN WE'VE HAD ACTUAL MODELS FOR DAM BREAKS AS FAR AS WE LOOK BACK AT THE HISTORICAL RECORD.

I THINK DAM FAILURE MODELING WAS AFTER THE KA LOKO DISASTER IF I RECALL.

LOOK ATTR AT OTHER G FLOOD MODE, MAPS MENTIONED EARLIER.

RECORD-SETTING 2018 RAINFALL EVENT, G IS FOLKS DID A GOOD JOB MOVING OUT SOME OF THE RESULTS OF OUR DAMAGE ASSESSMENTS IN THE COMMUNITY.

MAPPING OUT R WHERE HOMES MAY HAVE BEEN DESTROYED OR HAD HEAVY DAMAGE, AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

AND I DID ASK THE GIS FOLKS CAN YOU OVERLAY THAT AGAINST THE FLOOD ZONES?

CLOSE CORRELATION WHAT FEMA WOULD CALL HIGHER FLOOD RISK AREA WE SAW THE MAJOR DAMAGE OR DESTROYED PROPERTIES.

AND SOMETIMES ON THE EDGE, GOT INTO THE MORE MODERATE RISK, 500 YEAR FLOOD AREAS OR BETWEEN 100 AND 500 THRESHOLD.

THERE'S SOME CORRELATION THERE.

LACKING LIKE DAM FAILURE MODELING FOR OTHER WATERSHEDS OR OTHER AREAS, I THINK THE FLOOD SNOOR INSURANCE RATE MAPSO LOOK ATTRIBUTE DETERMINE RISKS FFOR RESPECTIVE AREAS.

>>Daryl: WHERE CAN THEY FIND THOSE?

>> FEMA DOES HAVE A NATIONAL FLOOD HAZARD LAYER VIEWER THAT THEY HAVE.

OUR DEPARTMENT ALSO PUTS OUT TOOL CALLED GLAD HAZARD ASSESSMENT TOOL.

G FLOOD HAZAD ASSESSMENT TOOL.

HAVING ISSUES IN THE LAST 2 WEEKS WORK ON REVIESING THAT VIG THAT.

FLOODS.GOV ZOOM INTO YOUR PROPERTY.

SEE THE FLOOD INSURANCE RATES MAP OVERPLAYED ON -- OVERLAID WHAT YOUR IMAGERY TO SEE WHAT YOUR RISKS.

>>Daryl: NOT OPERATING NOW?

>> ZOOM IN ON THE MAP, JUST USING YOUR MOUSE, AND YOU CAN JUST ZOOM IN ON THE ISLAND AND YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU CAN GET YOUR FLOOD ZONE.

IT'S JUST REC SEARCH FEATURE WIH THE ADDRESS IS CURRENTLY HAVING AN ISSUE.

>>Daryl: QUESTION OF COME FROM GORDON FROM PALOLO.

UNDERSTAND WHY HE'S ASKING THIS.

ARE THEN PLANNING TO DREDGE AT ALL WAI AGAIN IF SO, WHEN?

I KNOW NONE OF YOU ARE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THAT QUESTION.

I THINK IT RAISES QUESTION OF WHAT DID YOU ABOUT IT?

WHO SH SHOULD BE PREPARING FOR THIS KIND OF THING?

PATRICK, WHAT KIND OF PLACES DO YOU THINK PEOPLE NEED TO BE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF HISTORY WITH?

>> IMMEDIATELY COMES TO MIND IS YOUR HOME.

YOUR SAFE SPACE.

DEPENDING ON THE FEROCITY OF THE WATER, DAYTIME OR NIGHT TIME I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU SAY IN YOUR HOME MAKE SURE POWER IS OFF.

MORE SAFE IN YOUR HOME THAN YOU WOULD BE EXITING YOUR HOME.

EVERYBODY HAS A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

MIGHT BE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE TO LEAVE THAT HOME DUE TO THE FAST RUNNING WATER.

SOMETHING CAME TO MIND WHERE I LIVE, OVER IN KANEOHE, THERE ARE CONCRETE CULVERTS ALWAYS GET FILLED WITH DEBRIS.

I GO TO THE CULVERT IT TWICE A YEAR.

CLEAN THE DEBRIS OUT.

LIVE ON THE H-2.

HISTORY OF THAT H-3 AQUA DUNGT BEING CLOGGED, AQUEDUCT BEING LOGGED LOOK ATTRIBUTE WHERE YOU LIVE, LOOK ATTRIBUTE WHERE YOU LIVE AROUND YOUR PROPERTY AND MATE GAIT, DAMAGING SITUATION.

MITIGATED, CLEAN UP DEBRIS AROUND THE C CONCRETE CULVERTS HOME IS YOUR SAFE SPACE.

IF YOU ST HAVE TO LEAVE MAY HAVN WHERE YOU'RE GOING.

PERSON ON THE OTHER END KNOWS WHERE TO EXPECT YOU.

>>Daryl: FOR FLASH FLOODING?

>> ANY TIME OF FLOODING.

>>Daryl: ALMOST ALL HAWAII FLOODS ARE FLASH FLOODS.

>> YES.

PRETTY MUCH ALL FLASH FLOODS.

DR.

WAS SAYING.

BECAUSE OF THE TERRAIN AND INTEE RAINFALL IN THE TROPICS.

>>Daryl: HOW MUCH DOES DEBRIS IN A STREAM THAT'S ACCUMULATED SOMETIMES STREAM GO A LONG TIME BEFORE IT GETS SORT OF WASHED OUT BY A FLOOD.

HOW MUCH DOES DEBRIS OR OTHER BLOCKAGES AFFECT THE DANGER AFOREOFA FLASH FLOOD OR RISK OFA FLASH FLOOD?

>> I WAS INVOLVED IN A STUDY ON KAUAI WE WERE SPEAKING WITH THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS ABOUT THE 2018 APRIL RECORD-SETTING FLOOD.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THINGS MOST INTERESTING TO ME ABOUT WHAT THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS SAID WAS THAT THE ALBIZIA TREES IN THE STREAM WERE ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES.

SO ALBIZIA TREES AND BRANCHES IN THE STREAM BLOCKED UP BY THE ROAD AND LED TO THESE KIND OF FLOODING PULSES THAT HUGE WALL OF WATER CAME AND THEN IT WOULD GET A LITTLE BETTER, ANOTHER HUGE WALL OF WATER.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION DIRECT I.

>>Daryl: YOU ARE.

GO WITH THAT FOR A MINUTE.

SO WHAT IS, IS IT THE DEBRIS PILE, KIND OF MOVING DOWN AND THEN WATER ACCUMULATES BEHIND IT?

>> YES.

>> >>Daryl: BREAKS THROUGH.

DEBRIS HAS A LOT DO WITH THE UNPREDICTABILITY OF IT.

>> YES.

ALBIZIA TREES PARTICULARLY ARE REALLY BAD WITH FLOODING WHEN THERE'S HEAVY RAIN JUST DROP THEIR BRANCHES AND DON'T HAVE VERY DEEP ROOTS SO FALL OVER REALLY EASILY.

SO YEAH, I IMAGINE RAD OR ROAD R STREAM GOING UNDER IT.

AIL BRESE YEAH TREES DAM IT UP LIKE A BEAVER.

>>Daryl: WHAT THE COUNTY ACE ABILITY TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN ADVANCE OF FLASH FLOODING?

,.

>> SO WITH THE COUNTY, DRAINAGES WILL THAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR, WE'LL DO OUR BEST TO GO AND MITIGATE AHEAD OF TIME.

WE EVEN HELP WITH SOME CLEARING OF OUT FLOWS INTO THE OCEAN.

SOME AREAS.

BUT REALLY FALLS TO WHAT WE CALL WHOLE COMMUNITY APPROACH.

SO THAT IS EVERYONE.

ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT.

WHATEVER WHOSE OF RESPONSIBILITY PRI SECTOR, PRIVE LANDOWNER MAINTAIN DRAINAGES AND OUTFLOWS COLLECTIVELY THAT IS ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.

>> I DO WANT TO ADD SOMETHING THOUGH, BECAUSE YOU HAD WORKED ON THE STUDY ON KAUAI.

SO SEPARATE FROM ALBIZIA, OUR COUNTY WAS FORTUNATE TO GET SOME FUNDS THROUGH THE STATE, LEGISLATURE, FOLLOWING THE 2018 FLOODS.

AND PART OF THOSE FUNDS WENT TOWARDS MITIGATION PROJECTS, COMMUNITY DRIVEN.

SO WE DID SOME SUBGRANTS.

AND ONE OF THEM DID.

>>Daryl: SO YOU FIND A COMMUNITY GROUP THAT IS WILLING TO DO SWORNLG AND SUPPORT THEM?

>> P DO SOME WORK AND SUPPORT THEM.

>> RFP'S.

REQUEST FOR PROPOSES OUT.

PROJECTS GOT FISCAL RECOVERY FUD CLEARING VEGETATION ALONG THE HANALEI RIVER.

DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WOULD WORK OR NOT BUT PATRICK PROBABLY TELL YOU, WE HAD SOME SUBSEQUENT FLASH FLOOD WARMING EVENTS WHERE OUR PRIOR STREAM GAUGE THRESHOLD AND OUR UPSTREAM WAS HIT AND IT DIDN'T RESULT IN FLOODING.

ATTRIBUTE LEAST FOR THOSE-AT LEAST CLOSER TO THE THRESHOLD EVENTS DID HELP MITIGATE.

>>Daryl: QUESTION FOR MISS HAMISS HMISYOUR BRANCHPRIMM ISSUE.

BUT DOES THE STATE OR COUNTY OR ANYBODY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO GO UP AND DOWN WATERSHED AND INFORM PRIVATE OWNER OR SOMEBODY YOU NEED TO CLEAR THIS OR YOU'RE GOING TO BE LIABLE OR SOMETHING?

IS THERE SOMETHING WHERE THEY CAN DO THAT?

>> I BELIEVE THAT THERE'S SOME ABILITY FOR COUNTY ENFORCEMENT IN SOME OF THE STATUTES THAT ARE OUT THERE.

TO FOR DRAINAGEWAYS THAT'S COUNTIES WOULD HAVE THAT AUTHORITY TO ISSUE OUTCRY TAKES AND WARRANTS TO CITATIONS WARRANTIES TO PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS STATE OWNED PROPERTY THEY CAN YOU ACTUALLY INFORM THE STATE, THAT WATERWAY WOULD NEED TO BE CLEARED.

>>Daryl: IN TERMS OF YOUR GUYS, IF YOU GUYS DOES ANYONE ROUTINELY INSPECT THESE AREAS RCHLTD FOR THE ONES THAT ARE KNOWN ISSUES LIKE THE CALLER THAT WAS MENTIONING ALA WAI, THAT IS JUST NATURAL PROCESS OF SEDIMENT TRANSPORT.

FROM THE MOUNTAIN, GOES THROUGH, AND IT JUST DEPOSITS ITSELF IN WHEN IT'S THE VELOCITY GET LOWER LIKE IN THOSE CHINA CANALS.

OVER TIME, IT WILL DEVELOP AND THEY WOULD NEED TO BE DREDGED.

SO I THINK THAT IS WHY ALA WAI IS ROUTINELY DREDGED.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FREQUENCY IS.

>>Daryl: TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SAFETY.

HOW DO I KNOW MAYBE THERE'S SOME WARNING SYSTEM, HOW DO I KNOW THAT I SHOULD REALLY BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WEATHER AND WHETHER GEN-Z TO GO AB GOING TO BE AFLASH FLOOD.

HOW DO I KNOW?

>> HOW DO YOU KNOW?

>>Daryl: THERE MIGHT BE FLASH FLOOD, I SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT?

>> JUST TAKES THE SITUATION SITL AWARENESSENING YOU NEED HE TO BE FOOFOLLOWING FORECAST.

RAINY SEASON IN THE TOPICS, 20 T AND DRY SEASON.

ABNORMALLY DRY THIS YEAR.

RAINY SEASON STARTS IN OCTOBER.

SENT MY MONTHS OF OCTOBER THROUGH MARCH AND APRIL TEND TO GET MOST RAIN.

AWARE OF YOUR SITUATION AND UNDERSTANDING THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A PLAN, THAT WE HIT THAT PLAN HOME.

MAKE SURE YOU MAKE YOUR PLAN NOW.

IT'S REALLY DEPENDENT UPON WHERE YOU EXACTLY LIVE AND FAMILY SITUATION.

HOW DO YOU KNOW, A L TIMES ISSUING WARNING BEFORE WE ISSUE WATCHES BECAUSE OF THE FLCOMPLEXITIES METEOROLOGY.

TAKING WHOLE COMMUNITY APPROACH UNDERSTANDING YOU NEED TO MITIGATE WELL BEFORE THE STORM, IF YOU HEAR, I KNOW I HEARD IN THE FORECAST THAT BEER EXPECTING MORE RAIN LATER ON IN THE WEEK, UPPER LEVEL LOW DROP OVER US FOLLOW THE FORECAST MAKE YOU HAVE ON YOUR PHONE BOOKMARK RADAR TO FOLLOW THE RADAR WE HAVE OUR LIMITATION RADAR DUE TO THE TERRAIN.

P HAVE YOUR AREAS OF YOUR SOURCES AVAILABLE, ENTERS, LOCAL MEDIA.

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE.

CHEROKEE THE CHECK FLO THE FORE.

ALTER YOUR PLANS.

>>Daryl: NEW YEAR'S EVE FLOOD A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT AND ABOUT GOT STUCK.

WEREN'T ABLE TO GET HOME.

WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT THAT NIGHT?

WERE YOU HOME?

TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT?

>> THINKING, HALLOWEEN, RIGHT?

>>Daryl: WAS IT HALLOWEEN?

>> NEW YEAR'S, HALLOWEEN ONE.

I JUST REMEMBER GOING OUT AFTERWARDS NEXT MORNING AND SEEING M MANHOLES LOOKED LIKE AND THE HILLS.

FLOOD WAYS CARVE OUT THE WATER, STREETS AND KIND OF GOING BACK TO THE OTHER QUESTION.

AS FAR AS KNOWING YOUR RISK, WE DO SOME PUBLIC OUTREACHES AT THE BIA SHOWS DIFFERENT HAZARD AWARENESS WORKSHOPS AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

AND I THINK ELTON BROUGHT UP IS THAT KNOWING FLOOD INSURANCE RATE MAP FEMA PUTS OUT THAT'S A GOOD START.

COVERS MAJORITY OF AREAS.

THAT PEOPLE CAN LOOK ATTRIBUTE AND USUALLY WHAT WE HEAR OF WWHEN DO THESE OUTREACHES REMEMBER A FLOOD.

THEY NEVER, NEVER RAINED LIKE THAT.

FLOOD INSURANCE RATE MAPS YOU'RE IN A HIGH HISC AREA.

HIK AREA.

IT'S IMPORTANT KNOW H HONOLULU IS GOING THROUGH A, MAP REVISION FOR THAT.

SO SOMETHING LIKE 4,000 PROPERTIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE NEWLY MAPPED INTO A HIGH RISK AREA.

THAT'S GOING TO ACTUALLY COME UP INTO BE REGULATED NEXT YEAR.

>>Daryl: THAT'S A LOT OF PROPERTIES.

>> YES.

>> CAN I SAY SOMETHING SITUATIONAL AWARENESS?

I THINK IT'S EASY TO SAY THESE SITUATIONALLY AWARE.

HOW DO YOU DO.

>>CTHAT?IF I WERE, OUTSIDE, ANDI LOOKED TOWARDS THE MOUNTAINS, AND I SAW REALLY TALL, TALL CLOUDS WOULD LIKE PUFFY ROUNDED EDGES, OR IF IT WAS JUST COMPLETELY OVERCAST MAYBE YOU CANT SEE BEYOND THE LOW LEVEL CLOUD DOES SEE IF THERE ARE ANY DEEP CLOUDS TYPICALLY WHEN IT'S RAINING CAN YOU TELL.

SOMETIMES YOU SEE SOME BIG JUICY CLOUDS KNOW IT'S RAINING HARD SOMEWHERE.

IF THAT IS IN THE MOUNTAINS UPSTREAM, FROM WHERE YOU ARE AND WATER WOULD FLOW FROM THERE TO WHERE Y YOU ARE, DON'T GO HIKING UP A STREAM.

SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

YOU CAN HAVE A FLASH FLOOD EVEN IF IT'S NOT RAINING WHERE YOU ARE.

SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE RAINING WHERE YOU ARE IN ORDER FOR A FLASH FLOOD TO IMPACT YOU.

>>Daryl: DO YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING?

>> YEAH.

FROM EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT PERSPECTIVE, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW THAT PREPAREDNESS AND RESILIENCE REALLY START AT THE INDIVIDUAL AND HOUSEHOLD LEVELS.

EVERYONE'S CIE KULEANA.

EVERYONE'S BUSINESS.

WITHIN OUR RESPECTIVE POSITIONS WILL DO OUR BEST TO INFORM THE PUBLIC AND KEEP EVERYONE SAFE.

BUT IT REALLY STARTS ATTRIBUTE .

KNOWING HAZARDS FOR THE AREAS IN WHICH YOU LIVE, WORK, OR FREQUENT.

IT MEANS HAVING MULTIPLE MEANS OF NOTIFICATION.

ALERTS ON YOUR PHONES.

SUBSCRIBING TO APPS.

LAND LINE NOTIFICATION.

EVEN HAVING SOME OF THOSE RADIOS TURN ON WITH EAS OR EMERGENCY ALERT SYSTEM SIGNAL ATTRIBUTE HOME.

A LOT OF TOOLS IN OUR -- AT HOME.

IN OUR PROVO HE SHALLAL AQUIFER.

EL GOOD TO HAVE MULTIPLE MEANS AND STAY INFORMED AHEAD OF TIME.

>>Daryl: STRIKES ME THAT ALL OF FLOOD STORIES I'VE COVERED HERE, AWFUL LOT OF TIMES CHILDREN THAT ARE GETTING IN TROUBLE.

SO I GUESS ONE OF THE MESSAGES WOULD BE TALK TO YOUR KIDS AND GO GRAB YOUR KIDS.

IF YOU'RE SEEING THESE CONDITIONS.

KIDS AREN'T GOING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

FUN.

LET'S GO PLAY IN THE WATER.

>> DON'T PLA I PLA PLAY IN THE STREAMS.

>>Daryl: IT'S VERY NASTY WATER.

TOO.

GETTING A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT DAMS.

AND I'M GOING TO FIND A COUPLE OF THEM.

BECAUSE COUPLE OF THEM WERE VERY SPECIFIC.

NAME DOOM DAMS ON OAHU OTHER THN HUGH MALUHIA.

WILSON DAM.

LAST TIME IT RAINED HARD, WENT OUT TO THE TYPICAL PLACE YOU GO, WHICH IS THAT VILLAGE RIGHT DOWN BY PAST WAIALUA.

AND THOSE PEOPLE WERE HUNKERED DOWN.

BUT WHAT OTHER PLACES SHOULD PEOPLE LITERALLY DO A LITTLE RESEARCH TO MAKE SURE?

>> THEY CAN GO ON TO DAMS HAWAII.GOV OUR WEBSITE.

TAB THERE TO SEE A G IS MAP ACTUALLY SHOW THEM WHERE ALL THE MAPS ARE THAT WE REGULATE THROUGH THRO STLO THROUGHOUT TH.

MORE MANY DAS SMALLER DON'T FALL INTO OUR REGULATION THAT ARE OSB OARE THERE.

OAHU, NORTH SHORE, OPAIULA DOLE PLANTATION.

UPUP KIPAHI, FORGOT NAME.

>>Daryl: SAW IT BEFORE.

REGULATING OVER 100 DAMS ACTIVE DAMS NOW.

AND ON OAHU NOT TOO MANY.

MAYBE LIKE TEN OR 12.

WAIMANALO.

ONE THERE.

>>Daryl: ONE ABOVE HALEIWA.

COUPLE OF ABOVE HALE HALEIWA PEE ARE CONCERN ABOUT.

OPAE ULA.

THAT'S THERE.

UPPER HELEMANU.

>>Daryl: SPECIFIC WARNING DEVICES ON THOSE DAMS THAT ARE REMOTE THAT WOULD BE TRIGGER IF THEY START TO GET TOO HIGH?

>> WE STARTED TO PARTNER WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAII SEA LEVEL CENTER.

AND WE STARTED INSTALLING SOME REAL TIME WATER LEVEL GAINS ON SOME OF THESE STRUCTURES DANGERS WANT TO RELY ON.

FOR GAUGE US.

LILAKE WILSON HAS A GAUGE.

WITH THE USGS, HAS GAUGES THAT THEY MONITOR BOTH STREAM, RAIN AND THEN WE HAVE A FEW RESERVOIRS THAT THEY MONITOR.

>>Daryl: WHAT ARE IS STATE OF TECHNOLOGY FOR THIS KIND OF WARNING SYSTEMS?

>> WELL, COMPARED TO 20, 30 YEARS AGO.

MORE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY.

WE HAVE MULTIPLE RADARS ON MULTIPLE ISLANDS.

LIMITATIONS WITH THOSE RADARS.

BECAUSE OF TOP ABECAUTOPOGRAPHY.

RAIN GAUGES NEED TO HAVE THAT CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RAINFALL CERTAIN AREA.

FOR US WEATHER SERVICE MONITORING RADAR.

WE KNOW THE LIMITATIONS OF THE DATA.

AND FOR MORE SEASON FORECASTERS WE SORT OF CAN SEE IT COMING.

SO A A LOT OF TIMES GOOD TO HAE THAT EXPERIENCE.

SEEN THIS BEFORE.

ANALOG PATTERN.

AS FAR AS TECHNOLOGY GOES, AS GOOD, GOING TO GET RIGHT NOW.

AS FAR AS EQUIPMENT.

WE HAVE THE DOPPLER RADARS FOR US ON OAHU.

MALL MOLOKAI.

BIG ISLAND.

ONE IN KAUAI.

AND WE DO HAVE PRETTY GOOD STREAM GAUGES.

AND AS ELTON WAS SAYING, THOSE ARE GOOD INDICATIONS OF UPSTREAM FLOODING.

I LIKED WHAT ALLISON WAS SAYING DOESN'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE RAINING HARD WHERE YEAR ATTRI AT.

RERAINING HARD UPSTREAM.>>Dary E BELOW A DAM KNOW THEY LIVE BELOW 'DAM POTENTIAL DANGER.

THAT DAM TOOK OUT A HOUSE PULL FUFULL PEOPLE.

THOUGHTS LESSONS STATEWIDE DO YOU FOLKS HAVE A PLAN FOR EACH OF THES THESE RESPO RE-- THESE S RESPOND COUNTY ALERT.

>> A LOT OF IMPROVEMENTS SINCE THE KA LOKO DISASTER.

AND SUBJECT MATTER EXPERT ON THIS ONE.

BUT THE REGULATED DAMS, HIGH HAZARD AR DAMS HAVE EMERGENCY ACTION PLAN THAT CAPTURES THE ROLE OF THE OWNER/OPERATOR.

HOW THOSE EMERGENCY NOTIFICATIONS WOULD TAKE PLACE.

THOSE FLOWE FLOW MODELING AND EVACUATION ZONES HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED.

SO WE KNOW WHAT AREAS WOULD HAVE TO WARN AND EVACUATE.

EVEN IF THERE'S A MINOR ISSUE WITH A DAM, WE ALREADY NOTIFIED UP FRONT.

>>Daryl: TELL ME THE STORY.

I WOULD LIKE TO REPEAT IT FOR VIEWERS SPOKE ABOUT IT BEFORE.

WHEN KA LOKO FAILED, THERE WAS ANOTHER DAM I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS UPSTREAM OR DOWNSTREAM FOR KA LOKO.

>> RESERVOIR WAS DOWNSTREAM.

>>Daryl: WHAT HAD TO HAPPEN?

FEAR THAT THAT SECOND DAM WAS GOING TO BURST EVEN AFTER IT STOPPED RAINING.

>> KA LOKO, FLOOD WAVE FROM KA LOKO WENT THROUGH IT OVERTOPPED MORITA RESERVOIR AS IT WAS GOING OVER, EI ERODED BACK HALF OF EMBANKMENT.

HALF OF IT WAS DONE STILL HAD FULL POOL OF WATER IN THE RESERVOIR STARTING TO LEAK WE DID WHAT CALLED FORCE BREACH WHERE THE COUNTY WITH THE.

>>Daryl: COUNTY GEAR?

RIGHT?

COUNTY.

>> BULLDOZERS WORKED TOGETHER?

>> WE WORKED TOGETHER WITH THE COUNTY I THINK IT WAS A PRIVATE CONTRACTOR CAME OUT WITH EXCAVATOR CARVED BREACH, CHANNEL.

>>Daryl: WITHIN A FEW HOURS.

FAST WORK AS I RECALL.

>> IT WAS PRETTY FAST.

I CANNOT SAY EXACTLY WHAT THE TIME FRAME WAS.

>>Daryl: RELIEVED PRESSURE?

TALK AM ME ABOUT THE EFFECT OF DAMS ON FLASH FLOOD.

FROM MAUKA TO MAKAI, WHEN THERE'S A DAM SOMEWHERE BETWEEN MOUNTAIN AND HOMES BELOW, WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF HOW THE WATER ACTS WHEN IT'S MOVING THROUGH DAMS AND IF A DAM BREECHES, I GUESS WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF HAVING DAMS UPSTREAM OF YOU WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO GAUGE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND WHAT FEAR LEVEL YOU SHOULD HAVE?

>> I CAN'T SAY I'M A DAM EXPERT BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN YOU HAVE A RESERVOIR THAT HOLDS WATER, YOU HAVE RAIN UPSTREAM, HOLDS WATER AND THEN DEPENDING ON HOW FREQUENTLY THE WATER IS RELEASED FROM THAT RESERVOIR, HOPEFULLY NOT ALL ATTRIBU AT INCREASE YOUR RI.

BECAUSE.

>>Chair Cordero: IT'S HOLDING UP THE WATERED AND GO ALL OF A SUDDEN.

>> JUST A STREAM, THEN IT WOULD JUST ALL COME DOWN ATTRIBUTE ONCE RATHER THAN MAKING SUCH A LARGE VOLUME OF WATER.

>> I THINK ADD ON TO THAT.

>>Daryl: PLEASE GO AHEAD.

>> A LOT OF OUR MAJORITY OF OUR RESERVOIRS HERE ON DAMS WERE BUILT IN SUPPORT OF SUGAR CANE, PINEAPPLE BACK IN THE EARLY 19TH CENTURY.

SO AT THAT TIME, DIDN'T HAVE THE MODERN STANDARDS WE HAVE.

CURRENTLY.

DIDN'T HAVE THE UPSTREAM POPULATION RUN OFF CURRENTLY COMING INTO THESE STRUCTURES.

THEY WEREN'T DESIGNED TO HANDLE THOSE TYPES OF FLOODS REASON WHY A LOT OF THEM NEED RETROFIT RIGHT NOW.

ARE SOME DAMS HAVE WOULD THAT I CAN THINK OF TOP OF MY HEAD THAT WERE DEVELOPED FOR FLOOD CONTROL PURPOSES.

SO KANEOHE DAM, HOOMALUHIA WINDWARD SIDE.

CAME ABOUT AS A RESULT OF DEVASTATING FLOOD THAT IS HAD COME THROUGH KANEOHE TOWN.

AND SO.

>>Daryl: QUITE A WHILE AGO.

>> THAT WAS QUITE A WHILE AGO.

DEVELOPED, BUILT THIS DAM TO ACTUALLY TEN WAIT OR SLOW DOWN THE FLOOD TO WATERS FILLS UP REALLY FAST BUT LEASES IT SOMEWHAT SLOWER.

>> DAM REDUCES YOUR RISK.

>> CORRECT.

MOST OF DAM DAMES FOR DAMS FOR U IRRIGATION HISTORICALLY.

>> YES.

>>Daryl: BROUGHT UP THE ALA WAI.

THERE'S ENGINEERING SAFETY THAT COULD BE WORKED INTO A WATERSHED, I'M FAMILIAR WITH KAPOLEI.

WHICH WAS JUST BIG SUGAR CANE FIELD.

WITH THEM DEVELOPED HOUSING OUT THERE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WAS TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER THEY WANTED TO BE HOUSE BUILDER SAID STATE WAS REQUIRING A LOT OF FLOOD CONTROL EMOT MEASURING INCLUDING GOLF COURSE FLOOD CONTROL MEASURE AND THEY HAVE OTHER WAYS OF BEING CONDUITS OR BIG CONCRETE WAYS OF GOING THROUGH.

ARE WE TO SEE MORE OF THAT?

IN ORDER TO LIKELIKE ALA WAI TO REALLY PROTECT URBAN AREAS IN HAWAII?

ANYBODY CAN PITCH IN ON THAT.

I DON'T KNOW IF ONE OF YOU IS AN EXPERT.

WHAT YOU'RE THINKING SEE IN THE PPATHE PATTERNS ARE WE GOINO NEED MORE ENGINEERING SOLUTIONS TO IT REC OF FLASH FLOODING?

>> I CAN SPEAK A LITTLE BIT FROM WHAT I I'VE SEEN IN SOME.

FLOOD-PRONED AREAS THAT WE HERE IN HAWAII.

NOT NECESSARILY LIMITED TO TOWN.

I THINK YOU'L YOU'LL SEE IT WIND SIDE.

LARGE WATERSHED IN THE BACK.

STRAIGHT THROUGH THE MOUNTAINS RAPIDLY.

FUNNELS DOWN AND HIT THE FLAT AREA WHERE RIGHT BEFORE THE OCEAN WHICH IS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE START TO DEVELOP AND ANDHISTORICALLY IN THE PAST, ENGINEERING WISE, CHANNELIZED IT AND STRAIGHTEND IT OUT.

NOT THE NATURAL COURSE OF HOW A STREAM WOULD NORMALLY WORK.

BROUGHT THE PUBLIC RIGHT UP AGAINST THE HAZARD POTENTIALLY THERE AND SO IF THOSE DRAINAGE WAYS ARE NOT SIZED PROPERLY OR NOT, FOR NUMBER REASONS, THEY CAN OVER, GET OVERWHELMED BY FLOOD THAT COMES DOWN.

>>Daryl: REMEMBERING FLOOD IN KALAKAUA AVENUE, REMEMBER THAT ONE, IT'S COVERING KALAKAUA AVENUE ALL THE WAY DOWN THROUGH WAIKIKI.

AND THAT WAS NUUANU AREA.

LIKE 3 STREAMS.

CONVERGE IN ONE PLACE AND SOMETHING BLOCKED OLD DRAINAGE SYSTEM.

>> BUT BARRING ANYTHING BLOCKING A DRAINAGE WAY, I A A LOT OF TIMES OPEN SPACES LIKE GOLF COURSES I THINK ON HILO SIDE, HAVE SOCCER FIELD.

THAT THEY USE FOR FLOOD ATTENUATION THERE.

THAT IS GOOD WAY TO ACTUALLY KIND OF PROTECT YOUR AREA AND A IT'S A NATURAL FEATURE THAT CAN BE INCORPORATED INTO A SOMETHING THAT FOR FLOOD PREVENTION.

JUST AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE AWARE THAT'S WHAT THAT HAPPENS.

AND SO THAT KIDS.

>>Daryl: SOCCER WHEN IT'S RAINING.

>> RIGHT.

>>Daryl: MAINLAND, YOU WERE IN HOUSTON FOR EXAMPLE, AND VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE BERMS AND FLOOD CONTROL SYSTEMS THERE.

CONTROLLED RIVERS AND SO ON.

ARE WE SEEING THAT THOSE ARE OFTEN INADEQUATE GIVEN AMOUNT OF STORAGES WE'RE HAVING NOW?

-- STORMS WE'RE HAVING NOW.

>> HOUSTON AREA ONE BIG CONCRETE ISLAND.

ADVANTAGE THAT WE IN TEXAS HAD LAND.

WE HAD ABILITY TO TAKE AREAS AND PUT STORAGE AREAS AND MAKE CHANNELS LARGER BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THEY WERE BUILDING HOMES AND RESERVOIRS.

THAT WAS SO.

PROBLEM THAT WE HAD.

>>Daryl: HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

>> JUST YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THE POLITICS BEHIND IT.

A LOT HOMES ACTUALLY BUILT INSIDE RESERVOIRS.

OBVIOUSLY FLOODED.

HERE IN HAWAII, KANEOHE, WITH THE BOTANICAL GARDENS USING THESE SPACES GREEN SPACES, IS VERY PRACTICAL.

I THINK HERE IN HAWAII, WE HAVE TO BE MORE STRATEGIC FROM ENGINEERING STANDPOINT AS FAR AS NOT A WHOLE LOT OF NEW BUILDING GOING ON.

IN HOUSTON, YOU JUST HAD ALL OF THIS FARM LAND THAT WAS JUST BEING BUILT UP.

SO THEY HAD LAND TO FEED INTO THE BAYOU SYSTEM.

HERE, STREAM SYSTEM.

SO I THINK HERE YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE BETTER ENGINEERING AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK ATTRIBUTE YOUR HISTORY.

-- AT YOUR HISTORY.

FLOODING TEN YEARS, 15 YEAR, 100 YEAR.

LOOK ATTRIBUTE HISTORY AND SAY,ER LOOK AT HISTORY.

WHAT HAPPENED.

HYDRO LOGICAL MODELS TO RUN ENGINEERING ARE LOOKING AT THAT.

CORE ENGINEERS LOOKING AT THAT.

SMART UNDER HAWAII.

DON'T HAVE THE LAND ADVANTAGE IN TEXAS.

I DON'T KNOW ENGINEERING WHEN MAYOR KAWAKAMI TOOK OUR CABINET OUT TO ONE OUR FIELD OUGOUTINGSGOT TO SEE THE LIMA OA DEVELOPMENT.

IMPRESSIVE LOOKING FLOOD CONTROL MEASURES AND DRAIN AJS BUILT.

DRAIDRAINAGES BUILT.

SPECTACULAR RAIN EVENT, PROPERTY MANAGERS ONE OF THEM, RELAYED TO US THAT IT WASN'T EVEN STRESS.

CAPACITY.

AS YOU KNOW, THAT WAS VERY SIGNIFICANT EVENT.

SO THE MEASURES WORKED.

I CAN SAY FIRSTHAND THAT SOME OF THAT ENGINEERING BEING INCORPORATED INTO DEVELOPMENTS WAS EFFECTIVE THERE.

>>Daryl: GOT A QUESTION HERE.

COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE WHAT PLACES ARE PRONED TO OR ANOTHER, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS, HAVE WEATHER PLATTE E PLATTR AREA -- WEATHER PLATTE EARNS CHANGED ENOUGH -- WEATHER PATTERNS CHANGED ENOUGH MAPS ARE UPDATED.

UPDATED FREQUENTLY.

HOW OFTEN DO YOU UPDATE THEM?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY FAIRLY FREQUENTLY DO DO WHAT THEY DO REQUIRE UPDATES.

VARIES FOR THE MAP.

THIS PARTICULAR ONE, HONOLULU WE HAVEN'T SEEN, AT THAT UPDATE MAJOR UPDATE SINCE 2011.

I THINK IT WAS THE LAST TIME THEY REALLY DID.

PRIMARILY FOR COASTAL AREAS FROM A LOT OF THE STORM RUNOFF FROM THE HURRICANES.

>>Daryl: SWR WE SEEN A LOT CHANGE IN THE CLIMATE AROUND HERE SINCE 2011?

>> I DON'T KNOW SINCE 2011.

IF YOU LOOK OVER MUCH LONGER TIME PERIODS, GLOBALLY SEEING CHANGES IN WEATHER.

WHERE WET GETS WETTER AND DRY GETS DRYER.

SO WE'RE KIND OF SEEING CHANGE IN THE REDISTRIBUTION OF WHERE PRECIPITATION IS FALLING.

THAT'S PARTLY DO WITH WARMER TEMPERATURES.

IF YOU HAVE FOR EVERY ONE DEGREE CELSIUS, 2.3 DEGREES FAHRENHEIT ATMOSPHERE CAN HOLD 7% MORE MOISTURE.

DOESN'T ALWAYS DO THAT BUT CAN HOLD MORE MOISTURE.

IF YOU HAVE JUICIER CLOUD, LIKELY TO RAIN OUT FASTER.

SO YOU SEE HEAVIER RAIN, SOME PLACES AND THEN THAT LEAVES LESS RAIN FOR THE DOWNSTREAM AREAS.

>>Daryl: I THINK THAT ALSO TRADEWINDS FREQUENCY FOR A WHILE, WAY DOWN IN HOW MANY DAYS TRADEWINDS.

SEEMS LIKE IT'S BACK TO WHAT I REMEMBER, BEING NORMAL AGAIN.

IS THAT AM I PERCEIVING THAT CORRECTLY OR HOW BIG A DEAL IS TRADEWIND FREQUENCY AND THAT BEING AFFECTED?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN RAINFALL THAT WE GET, DEPENDS ON UPSTREAM CONDITIONS COMING INTO THE I DON'T KNOW.

HOW MUCH MOISTURE COMING IN.

IN THE ISLAND.

SWINDWIND SPEED AND DIRECTION.

THAT DIRECTION VERSUS THAT DIRECTION, MAKES A DIFFERENCE WHERE THE RAIN IS FALLING.

SPECIFICS OVER THE LAST, 15 YEARS, I CAN'T SAY.

>>Daryl: REMEMBER INTERVIEWING CLIMATEOLOGIST ATTRIBUTE U.H.

DONE A STUDY AND ALARMED HOW LITTLE TRADEWINDS WERE.

COUPLE OF YEARS, BACK UP TO 80 OR 85%.

CONFUSING TO PEOPLE.

TO MAKE A ASSUMPTIONS.

ASSUME THINGS.

GO AHEAD.

>> NOT TO GET INTO THE WEEDS TOO MUCH.

LIGHT OF WEATHER NERDS O OUT THERE.

>>Daryl: QUESTIONS FROM WEATHER NERDS.

>> TRADEWINDS SHUT OFF MORE LOCAL BREEZES, ALWAYS GET THAT SEA BREEZE ON THE KONA SIDE OF THE BIG ISLAND.

SO SOMETIMES THE SHUTTING OFF TRADE AND THE ORIENTATION OF THE WIND TO OUR TOPOGRAPHY, GET THE ISLAND PLUME.

ACTUAL WIND OFFI OFF A AN ISLAN.

MOLOKAI PLUME OVER US, EASTERN SIDE OF OAHU.

DISRUPTION IN THE TRADES.

DIFFERENT DIRECTION IN THE TRADES AND FOCUSES ON THE TRADES CERTAIN WAY, SEE THE JUICY CLOUDS BEGIN TO ANCHOR IN THE TERRAIN.

GET ANCHORING NOT MOVING AND PAYING ATTENTION TO THE RADAR, THIS IS NOT MOVING.

NOT GOOD.

THAT'S WHEN YOU CAN KIND OF GET AHEAD OF IT.

>>Daryl: WHAT I MEAN.

I DON'T KNOW IF WEATHER NEW NERD.2018 STORM WOW UP AND DOWN, HIT OAHU NIGHT BEFORE OF ON THE MOVE OVER THE COURSE OF A DAY.

PARKED ITSELF OR STALLED OVER KAUAI.

WHAT CAUSES A STORM TO STALL AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO HE PREDICT ONE WILL?

>> ALL IN YOUR WIND DIRECTION.

REALLY.

ORIENTATION TO THE TERRAIN.

HERE WE HAVE A LOT OF WHAT WE CALL SMALLER SCALE MICROCLIMATES.

IT DEPENDS WHAT IS UPSTREAM OF YOU.

IN KAUAI, OAHU PLUME.

MIGHT GETTING WINDERS ORIENTED IN A WAY PLUMING OR FUNELLING TOWARDS DOWNSTREAM ISLAND.

WHEN YOU DO HAVE NOT TRADES, WEAK WIND.

KONA A JORDAKONA.

JORLOWS.>> CAME BACK DOWN IN THE PLACE.

SO.

>>Daryl: YOU GUYS CAN PREDICT THIS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>>Daryl: REALLY?

LOOKING AT YOU SKEPTICALLY.

I LIVE IN MAKAKILO.

WEATHER CONDITIONS 3:00 OF THE RAINS LIKE CRAZY.

OBVIOUSLY LIMITATIONS TO THE SCIENCE.

HOW FOLKS START RAINING 3:00 P.M.

STOP ATTRIBUTE 3:30.

THAT'S JUST A WEATHER MODEL.

DETERMINISTIC MOHAMMED.

DETERMINE IS MODEL.ONE RUN ONE .

PROBABILISTIC MOLDING.

HE'S PREDICT?

NO.

MISS A LOT?

ABSOLUTELY.

WE DEFINITELY SCIENCE IS IMPROVING LIVING EXPERIENCE, LIVING ON ISLAND AND KNOWING WINDWARD PATTERNS WHEN THINGS WILL ANCHOR ON THE TERRAIN.

>>Daryl: NATIVE HAWAIIANS HAVE THAT IN THEIR HISTORY WIND HEAR THE WIND, IF YOU HEAR THE WIND DOING A CERTAIN THINGS,ER LIFE EXPERIENCE.

ABSOLUTELY.

LOOKING AT THE SKY AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS COMING UP.

VERY IMPORTANT WHAT IS A RAIN BOMB?

NEW TERM OR JUST USE, WHOLE CONVERSATION ABOUT KING TIDES.

RAIN BOMB,.

>> RAIN BOMB.

>>Daryl: WE CALLED IT RAIN BOMB SAT OVER KAUAI.

>> ALL OF THESE LITTLE COLLOQUIALISM ISMS POP UP.

POLAR VORTEXT AND ATMOSPHERIC RIVER.

PINEAPPLE EXPRESS.

>> NEW TERM.

RAIN BOMB IS A NEW TERM.

>> RAIN BOMB IS NEW TERM.

THINK ABOUT IT WHEN I THINK BOMBING I THINK PRESSURE FALLING LIKE A CYCLOGENESIS FANCY TERM.

DEEP BEING PRESSURE.

RAIN BOMB CATEGORIZED RAINFALL RATE.

INTENSE RAINFALL SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

A BOMB.

DOWN BURST TYPE HEAVY RAINFALL.

HOW I WOULD CLASSIFY IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF OFFICIAL DEFINITION.

BUT WHAT I GET BACK TO THE HOUSE, HAVE TO LOOK IN MY ATMOSPHERIC GLOSSARY.

>>Daryl: WHICH ISLAND IN HAWAII ARE MORE PRONED TO FLOODING DUE TO LANDSCAPE AND TOPOGRAPHY?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I WOULD SAY ANY AND ALL.

DEPENDS ON THE WIND DIRECTION.

>>Daryl: ALL ABOUT THE WIND.SAY IN LAHAINA FOR SURE.

PLEASE EXPLAIN MECHANICS OF FLASH FLOOD.

I UNDERSTAND STREAM RIVER RISING DURING A RAINSTORM.

WHAT CAUSES WALL OF WATER SOMETIMES SEVERAL FEET HIGH TO SUDDENLY APPEAR BESIDES SOMETHING OBVIOUSLY LIKE A DAM BREACH?

>> I THINK TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT DEBRIS PRIMARILY.

BUT I DON'T THINK THIS IT HAS TO HAVE DEBRIS.

IMAGINE THAT YOU HAVE SOME REALLY, REALLY HEAVY RAIN CONFINED TO A SMALL SPACE.

DOWNSTREAM.

GOING TO SEEM LIKE A WALL OF WATER.

BUT JUST CAME OUT ONCE.

ANYBODY HAVE A BETTER WAY.

>> COLLEAGUE TALKED ABOUT THIS.

LIKE A SP SPONGE.

HOW MUCH RAIN YOU HAVE LEADING UP TO THAT EVENT.

SPONGE TO SATURATED NOT GOING TAKE MUCH RAIN TO INITIATE FLOODING.

GROUND IS ABSORBING THAT.

THINK ABOUT WHAT I AM TATOFI TYN YOU'RE IN.

HEAVIER RAINFALLS FEBRUARY OR MONTH COOL MONTHS.

THINK ABOUT TIME OF SEASON YOU'RE IN.

>>Daryl: TWIST THE QUESTION TO MY INTEREST.

PAST THREE MAJOR FLOODS ON KAUAI CAUSED MANAGER DAMAGE IN HOMES KOLOA, WAITA WES SOMETHING OR OTHER.

RESERVOIR.

WHAT HAS KAUAI TO STUDY I THE WAITA DAM?

YOUR JOB?

AND PREVENTION FUTURE FLOOD TO GO THEIR AREA, BUT I ALSO WANTED TO BRING UP WE HAVE ALL OF THESE STREAM DIVERSIONS THAT HAVE BEEN INSTALLED DID HE VETERAN STREAMS.

DIVERT STREAMS ARE WE SAFER FLASH FLOODS BECAUSE OF THOSE DIVERSIONS?

DO HE THIS CONTROL THE WATER ATTRIBUTE ALL?

-- AT ALL.

DIVERSIONS GIVE HAWAII AREAS PARTICULARLY STRANGE FLOODING PATTERN.

I GUESS MOST OF THESE ARE OLD SUGAR AND PINEAPPLE DAMS YOU'RE WORKING WITH.

ALSO STRUCTURES THAT COME DOWN FROM THEM AND GO INTO THE STREAMS AND STUFF.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT KOLOA TOWN IS HIGH RISK AREA FOR FLOODING.

ON THE FLOOD INSURANCE RATE MAP.

>>Daryl: WEST KAUAI.

>> RIGHT.

ER I CALL IT WEST.

EVI SPENT INIKI THERE.

>>Daryl: RIGHT.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT WAITA RESERVOIR HASN'T FLOWN SPILL WAY WHERE IT'S FILLED UP THAT TO THAT POINT WHERE IT WOULD ACTUALLY FLOOD FOR QUITE A WHILE.

SO I IT'S BEEN YEARS AND I THINK THAT FLOODING EVENTS THAT THEY'RE SEEING, THAT WATERSHED THERE ABOVE KOLOA TOWN IS HUGE.

COMES FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS.

AND.

>>Daryl: MOUNT W WAIALEALE I AT THE TOP.

WETTEST PLACE IN EARTH.

PROMISED OUR VIEWERS TALK ABOUT IMMEDIATE ACTIONS TAKE WHEN YOU'RE CAUGHT IN A FLASH FLOOD.

AROUND THE TABLE, I MEAN, WHAT IF YOU'RE OUT AND ABOUT, TRYING TO GET LIKE WHEN PEOPLE WERE STUCK IN TOWN AND WANTED TO GET TO HAWAII KAI, AND DARK AND NIGHT TIME, WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO, WHEN THEY'RE HEARING MIGHT BE FLASH FLOODING SOMEWHERE OR SEEING IT FRONT OF THEM.

WHAT SHOULD THEY DO IF THEY'RE IN THEIR CAR?

>> EVERYBODY HAVE THEIR OWN INDIVIDUAL STORY AS FAR AS WHAT, WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE A PLAN.

BUT YOU KNOW I ALWAYS SAID EARLIER HOME IS YOUR SAFE SPACE WHAT IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY MA'AM THAT YOU WANT TO GET TO-FAMILY MEMBER GEPT TO, DIABETIC OR HEALTH CONDITION,.

>>Daryl: ELDERLY.

>> KIDS ARE AT AT SKE SCH SCHOOD ABOUT THAT.

HAVE A PLAN TO COMMUNICATE WHEN YOUR KIDS WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO.

STAY IN YOUR HO EM.

HOME.

FEMA HAS GREAT ELE INFORMATION D RED COST.

HAVING PLAN AND NOT BEING SURPRISE.

CAUGHT BY SURPRISED I WOULD SAY MOST OF TIME DO NOT IN YOUR VEHICLES NOT IN YOUR CAR.

WANT TO BE AREA WHERE YOU'RE STATIONED DON'T WANT TO BE AREA COULD GET WASHED AWAY.

AND THAT'S WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THINK ABOUT YOUR PLAN RIGHT NOW.

WATCHING THIS SHOW.

SO ONCE THE SHOW OVER GO TO FEMA DOING.GOV WEATHER.GOV SITE.

GETTING YOUR TOOLS TOGETHER.

AND THINKING ABOUT YOUR WORSE SITUATION.

FEMA.GOV OR NEW TO THE COMMUNITY START ASKING NEIGHBORS I LIKE THIS WHOLE, WHOLE COMMUNITY THING.

INSTEAD OF ADOPTING HIGHWAY, MAYBE ADOPT A STREAM.

>>Daryl: OTHERS OF YOU, YOU'RE IN THIS BUSINESS, ALL OF YOU, PROFESSION INVOLVE CONCERNS ABOUT FLOODING.

IN YOUR OWN MIND, DO YOU PICTURE YOURSELF GETTING STUCK AND IF YOU'RE IN YOUR CAR SEEING TURN AROUND DON'T FLOOD.

PLACES FLASH F FLASH FLOOD FRONF YOU BEHIND YOU AT THE SAME TIME.

WHAT SHOULD YOU DO.

>> DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN THAT SITUATION.

>>Daryl: HAPPENS FAST.

LOVE DRIVE.

ONE HIGHWAY.

CURIOUSER.

>> TALKING I THINKS WAYING THIS I WOULD DRIVE SOMEWHERE, PREFERABLY UP HIT.

RESTAURANT.

FRIEND'S HOUSE.

KIDS ARE AT SCHOOL.

OH, NO.

ANSWER WOULD BE THAT HOPE THAT THE TEACHERS ARE CAPE KEEPING THEM SAFE.

AND DON'T, IF I CAN'T GET FROM A TO B, DON'T PUT MYSELF IN DRAINDANGER TO DO THAT.

WOULD BE MY OWNS.

I THINK SOME OF THE -- WOULD BE MY ANSWER.

INCIDENCES WHERE WE'VE HAD PEOPLE PASS WAY DURING FLASH FLOODS HAVE BEEN DOING OUT OUTDOORRECREATION.

MULTIPLE CASES ON KAUAI PEOPLE GOT CAUGHT BECAUSE THEY TRIED TO CROSS FLOODING STREAM.

OR RIVER.

AND IN THOSE CASES, THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST WAITED IT OUT.

STAY ON HIGH GROUND.

UNTIL THE THREAT PASSES.

>>Daryl: BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO GO DOWN.

>> EVENTUALLY IT WILL.

IF YOU ARE OUT IN THE OUTDOORS SHOULD BE PREPARED AND STAKE TAKE SHELTER DON'T CROSS THAT WATER HAZARD.

>>Daryl: VISITORS TO KAUAI MADE AWARE OF THIS.

>> SOME INFORMATION THAT CAN BE PROVIDED AT THE HOTELS, WITH PEOPLE ARRIVE AT THE AIRPORTS, SOME INFORMATION MAINLY ABOUT HIGH SURF, THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT A LOT OF LODGING ACCOMMODATIONS DO TRY TO CAUSING THE VISITORS BEFORE THEY GO OUT AND ABOUT.

TRY TO CAUTION THEM.

IF IS THERE A PARTICULAR WEATHER THREAT AT THE TIME.

BUT GENERALLY INFORMATION, MAYBE NOT EASILY AVAILABLE.

>>Daryl: JUST WONDERING, IF YOU HAD A RAIN EVENT LIKE WE HAD, CREATED A KA LOKO UNIQUE BECAUSE OWNER OF THE DAM AFFECTED HIS DAM.

IF YOUR SENSORS SAID THIS DAM IS ABOUT TO GO, I REMEMBER THERE'S A ALERT LIKE THAT FOR HALEIWA ONCE.

OF COURSE, THEY SENT ME TO HALEIWA.

BUT WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO IF THEY HEAR THAT?

AND THEIR HOME IS IN DANGER?

>> I WOULD FOLLOW WHATEVER THE EMERGENCY PERSONNEL, AMONG EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY POLICE AND FIRE DIRECTED TO DO GOING THROUGH THESE EMERGENCY ACTION PLANS, THEY'RE DYNAMIC.

SOMETIMES THIS WOULD BE THE SHELTER THAT YOU WOULD NORMALLY GO TO.

BUT BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING OUT IN THE DURING THAT EVENT, THEY MAY BE DIRECTING YOU SOMEWHERE ELSE.

YOU REALLY WANT TO BE AWARE, YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE TELLING YOU.

AND ACT RIGHT AWAY.

I DO WANT TO ADD ON TO ONE OTHER CAUTION FOR PARENTS.

WHEN THEY HAVE KIDS OUT THERE AND DURING RAIN EVENTS, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THESE DETENTION BASINS THAT ARE BEING BUILT NOW FOR FLOOD PROTECTION FLOOD RETENTIONS IN A LOT OF THESE COMMUNITIES AND.

>>Daryl: KIDS LOVE TO PLAY IN THEM.

>> WE DO FOR OUR OPERATORS ON DAMS WE WARN THEM THOSE OUTLETS, CULVERTS AT THE BOTTOM, THEY'RE VERY DANGEROUS.

AND.

>>Daryl: ACTUALLY, GOOD POINT.

I HAVE TO STOOPS BECAUSE WE'RE DONE.

I HAVE TO STOP BECAUSE WE'RE DONE.

MAHALO TO YOU FOR JOINING US TONIGHT — AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS - KAUA'I EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT ADMINISTRATOR ELSON USHIO AND ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCES ALISON NUGENT.

DLNR DAM SAFETY SECTION HEAD EDWIN MATSUDA AND NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE METEROLOGIST PATRICK BLOOD.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, ONE IN THREE HAWAI'I RESIDENTS RELY ON MEDICAID FOR THEIR HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE AND FEDERAL CHANGES TO MEDICAID ARE COMING.

HOW WILL THE CHANGES AFFECT HAWAI'I RESIDENTS AND WHAT SHOULD PEOPLE DO TO PREPARE?

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

I'M DARYL HUFF FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI'I.

ALOHA!

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