HAWAII HAS 83,000 CESSPOOLS.

MORE THAN ANY OUR STATE SIX YEARS AGO, HAWAII MANDATE THE REMOVAL OF ALL CESSPOOLS BY 2005.

2005 ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY BANNED LARGE CAPACITY CESSPOOLS.

MANY CONTINUE TO OPERATE.

WHAT STILL NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO CLEAN UP THESE AREAS?

IS HAWAII ON SCHEDULE TO FIX ITS CESSPOOL PROBLEM?

JOIN THE CONVERSATION ON THE NEXT INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

¶¶ ¶¶ ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I’M DARYL HUFF.

ACCORDING TO THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT HAWAII HAS AS MANY AS 83,000 ACTIVE CESSPOOLS STATEWIDE, MANY OF THEM SERVING PRIVATE HOMES.

CESSPOOLS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR RELEASING UP TO 53 MILLION GALLONS OF UNTREATED SEWAGE THAT END UP IN OUR ISLANDS’ SOILS, STREAMS AND NEARSHORE WATERS EACH DAY.

THE STATE HAS AN OFFICIAL GOAL TO REPLACE ALL OF ITS CESSPOOLS BY 2050 WITH MORE SANITARY SEWAGE TREATMENT SYSTEMS THAT CAUSE LESS HARM TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

IS THE STATE ON SCHEDULE TO MEET THE 2050 DEADLINE?

AND CONSIDERING THE ENVIRONMENTAL AND HEALTH RISKS, IS THAT DEADLINE SOON ENOUGH?

WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW.

YOU CAN EMAIL OR CALL IN YOUR QUESTIONS AND YOU’LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG AND THE PBS HAWAII FACEBOOK PAGE.

NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

SINA PRUDER HAS WORKED IN THE DEPARTEMENT OF HEALTH’S WASTEWATER BRANCH FOR THE LAST 29 YEARS WHERE SHE IS CURRENTLY THE BRANCH CHIEF.

HER BRANCH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR REGULATING ONSITE WASTEWATER SYSTEMS, INCLUDING CESSPOOLS.

HER BRANCH IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE RAMZI MANSOUR IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII.

HE PREVIOUSLY WAS A MEMBER OF THE CESSPOOL CONVERSION WORKING GROUP AND SERVED AS THE CHIEF OF WASTEWATER TREATMENT AND DISPOSAL FOR THE CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU.

DOTTY KELLY‑PADDOCK IS ON THE KOOLAULOA NEIGHBORHOOD BOARD AND IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE HAUULA COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION.

SHE IS ALSO THE EXCUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NON‑PROFIT HUI O HAUULA.

STUART COLEMAN IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO‑FOUNDER OF WAI—WASTEWATER ALTERNATIVES AND INNOVATIONS.

A NON‑PROFIT THAT HELPS RESIDENTS FIND WASTEWATER SOLUTIONS, WHICH IS PARTIALLY FUNDED BY WASTEWATER SOLUTION COMPANIES.

LET ME START OFF SINA PRUDER.

THESE NUMBERS YOU KNOW, 83,000 CESSPOOLS, 53 MILLION‑GALLONS OF UNTREATED SEWAGE, WHAT IS THE MECHANISM?

HOW IS CESSPOOL WORK OR NOT WORK?

SOUNDS LIKE IS IT JUST A HOLE IN THE GROUND THAT YOU POUR SEWAGE INTO AND HOPE IT DOESN'T DO ANY DAMAGE?

>> CESSPOOLS ACTUALLY CONSTRUCTED LIKE IN THE 40'S, FIFTIES.

AND PRETTY MUCH JUST A HOLE IN THE GROUND.

THIS IS THE TYPE OF TECHNOLOGY THAT YOU FIND IN UNDEVELOP COUNTRIES.

SO THEY HAVE LIKE A CESSPOOL OR HAVE JUST A PIPE.

DISCHARGING RAW SEWAGE INTO STREAMS AND OCEAN.

SO LIKE FOR US, CESSPOOL IS JUST A HOLE THAT WAS DUG INTO THE GROUND AND RAW SEWAGE IS JUST ACTUALLY GETS DISCHARGED INTO THE CESSPOOL.

AND AS YOU WHEN YOU'RE LIKE CLOSE TO THE OCEAN, OR TO A STREAM OR TO A DRINKING WATER SOURCE, THE SEWAGE CAN JUST ACTUALLY GET INTO THE CESSPOOL AND ENTER GROUND WATER WHICH ACTUALLY FEEDS INTO THESE OCEAN AND STREAMS AND ENDING UP CONTAMINATING IT.

>>Daryl: DOES THE SOIL CAPTURE IT OR FILTER IT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

OR WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RAW SEWAGE GOING INTO SAY THE NEARSHORE WATER OR STREAM, I MEAN, IS IT FILTERED?

IS THERE ANY FUNCTION OF GOING THROUGH THE GROUND THAT MAKES IT LESS HARMFUL.

>> WELL, CLOSER YOU ARE TO THE OCEAN, MOST IF NOT ALL CESSPOOLS ACTUALLY ARE IN GROUND WATER.

SO THEY'RE ACTUALLY IS NO SOIL.

SO WHEN WASTEWATER IS ACTUALLY DISCHARGED INTO A CESSPOOL, IT JUST DISCHARGES INTO GROUND WATER.

NO SOIL TREATMENT.

AND THEN FROM THE GROUND WATER, ACTUALLY TRANSFERS INTO THE STREAM.

OR INTO THE OCEAN OR EVEN INTO A DRINKING WATER.

AQUIFER.

>>Daryl: STRIKES ME AS WE WERE SO ALARM BY THE RED HILL TANKS OVER OUR AQUIFERS.

ALARMED WHEN THE GOVERNMENT SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANT DUMPS SOME TREATED SEWAGE INTO THE OCEAN.

THIS SOUNDS LIKE ENVIRONMENTAL NIGHTMARE.

WHY IS IT EVEN SAFE TO SWIM IN THE OCEAN WHEN THIS IS GOING ON?

>> YOU KNOW, I CAME FROM AREA WHERE WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE CESSPOOLS.

I DIDN'T KNOW.

WHEN I WAS WORKING SURFRIDER FOUNDATION.

>> WORKING WITH TED BOWLEN DEPUTY AG WORKING WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, TOLD ME ABOUT IT.

WORKING WITH TED AND SINA COALITION OF GROUP.

CRAZY.

STOP THIS.

NOBODY REALLY KNEW HOW BAD A PROBLEM IT WAS.

YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, MOST CESSPOOLS PER CAPITA IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

AND I THINK ONCE PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT THEM, REALIZE OH, YEAH, WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

OH, YEAH.

WE WERE THE LAST STATE TO BAN THEM BY OVER 3‑AND‑A‑HALF DECADES.

>>Daryl: RAMZI MANSOUR FROM BIG ISLAND AND FROM HONOLULU WORKING IN THESE WASTEWATER SYSTEMS.

WHY IS IT LIKE THIS?

WHY HASN'T GOVERNMENT RESPONDED LONG AGO TO THIS AND WHY ON THE BIG ISLAND, YOU HAVE MORE THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER ISLAND.

RIGHT?

WHY ARE WE OF THIS SITUATION?

>> COST AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

BOTH GO HAND IN HAND.

COST OF WASTE TREATMENT SYSTEM ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE STATE OF HAWAII, IS VERY, VERY COSTLY.

IN ADDITION, I WANT TO ADD SOMETHING TO WHAT SINA HAS STATED.

BACK IN THE OLD DAYS, RIGHT, 50 YEARS AGO, 60 YEARS AGO, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CHEMICALS THAT WE HAVE NOW.

IS NOW, EVERYTHING GETS FLUSHED THROUGH TOILET.

THROUGH YOUR SINKS.

SO THAT ADDS MORE TO THE POLLUTION.

BECAUSE CHEMICALS ARE VERY HAZARDOUS.

CERTAIN CHEMICALS.

>>Daryl: CLEANING CHEMICALS THAT WE FLUSH?

>> CLEANING CHEMICALS.

PHARMACEUTICALS.

EVEN NOWADAYS, EVERYBODY GOT GARBAGE DISPOSAL IN THEIR KITCHEN.

EVEN FOOD.

GRINDED UP MAKE IT TO THE CESSPOOL.

>>Daryl: THAT'S RIGHT.

ANY HOUSE, ALL THE WASTEWATER ENDS UP BASICALLY IN THE SAME PIPE.

>> TO THE SAME PIPE.

SAME HOLE IN THE GROUND.

INTO THE SAME GROUND WATER THAT POTENTIALLY WE MAY PULL OUT TO DRINK.

>>Daryl: OKAY.

>> COMPLICATE.

WASTEWATER IN GENERAL, YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE SHOULD ALL BE CONNECT TO A TREATMENT.

WASTEWATER FACILITY.

THAT WAY, YOU GET THE COMMERCIAL, YOU GET THE INDUSTRIAL, ON RESIDENTIAL, GET TREATED BEFORE DISCHARGE.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK DOTTY KELLY‑PADDOCK.

HAU'ULA HAS A LOT OF CESSPOOLS.

AND ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THIS REFORM BASICALLY COSTING PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY A LOT OF MONEY THAT THEY CAN'T AFFORD?

>> ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

OUR COMMUNITY HAS PROBABLY ALMOST A CESSPOOL IN EACH HOME.

THEY ARE A LOT OF THE FEWER SEPTIC TANKS THAN CESSPOOLS.

AND IT'S BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY IS VERY OLD.

PEOPLE CAN'T AFFORD TO PUT IN NEW SYSTEM LIKE A SEPTIC TANK.

IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE.

AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN HAU'ULA HAVE CESSPOOLS.

I'M SURE.

NUMBERS REFLECT THAT.

SO IT'S SAD.

I THINK PEOPLE DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE PEOPLE LIVE IN FAMILY HOMES THAT THEY LIVED IN FOR GENERATIONS.

AND THAT'S THE WAYS ALWAYS BEEN.

SO THERE IS NOT A LOT OF EDUCATION ABOUT CESSPOOLS.

AND PEOPLE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT.

UNTIL YOU GO TO MAYBE UPGRADE YOUR HOUSE OR BUILD A NEW HOUSE, THEN OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO PUT IN A SEPTIC TANK.

>>Daryl: ASK SINA PRUDER.

WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES THAT ARE OUT THERE FOR INDIVIDUAL FAMILY THAT MIGHT WANT TO CHANGE IT OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT DOES HAVE TO BE GOVERNMENT MOVING INTO AN AREA AND BASICALLY REPLACING THE EXISTING SEWAGE SYSTEM?

OR ARE THERE ALTERNATIVES BETWEEN THE INDUSTRIALIZED SEWER SYSTEM AND MAYBE INDIVIDUALIZED SANITARY SYSTEMS?

THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

>> NO.

THERE ARE ACTUALLY, OPTIONS.

SO LIKE TO REPLACE A CESSPOOL, YOU CAN REPLACE IT WITH SEPTIC TANK SYSTEM AND LEACH FIELD SEPTIC TANK JUST LIKE A TANK HAS TWO COMPARTMENT TANK.

ACTUALLY RAW SEWAGE GOES INTO IT AND WHAT IT DOES IS JUST A ACETYLENE TANK.

SEPARATES SOLIDS FROM THE WASTEWATER.

AND THEN SOLIDS, SETTLE TO THE GROUND.

TO THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK.

AND THEN LIQUID ACTUALLY EXITS THE SEPTIC TANK.

INTO WHAT THEY CALL LEACH FIELDS.

LEACH FIELDS ARE DISBURSAL FIELDS.

WHERE YOU CAN LAND, PRETTY MUCH LAND APPLYING EFFLUENT AND LEACH FIELD PROVIDES TREATMENT BECAUSE IT DOES PROVIDE SOME FILTRATION IN IT AND.

>>Daryl: THAT'S JUST THE WATER.

SOLIDS ARE REMAINING IN THE TANK.

>> YEAH.

SOLID REMAIN IN THE TANK.

DEPENDING ON USAGE OF SEPTIC TANKS RECOMMENDED FOR HOMEOWNERS TO PUMP IT OUT, SOLIDS, WITHIN TWO TO FIVE YEARS.

IF YOU HAVE HIGH USAGE.

>> IT'S MORE LIKE 2 YEARS.

>>Daryl: WHEN WE SEE PUMPERS GOING DOWN THE STRESS AND ANXIETY, PUMPING DOWN THE STREETS, PUMP SEPTIC TANKS?

>> THEY DO PUMP SEPTIC TANK.

ALSO PUMPING CESSPOOLS THAT HAVE FAILED OVER THE YEAR I TALKED ABOUT CESSPOOLS CLOSER TO THE OCEAN.

IT'S ACTUALLY JUST DISCHARGING INTO GROUND WATER BECAUSE THERE IS NO SOIL.

ON THE BOTTOM.

DISCHARGING TO GROUND WATER.

AS YOU MOVE INLAND, MORE SOIL.

SO GROUND WATER IS ACTUALLY DEEPER.

I YOU HAVE SOIL.

WHAT WASTEWATER DOES.

IT HAS SOLIDS IN THERE AND WHAT IT DOES IS ACTUALLY CLOGS THE PORES OF THE SOIL.

SO THAT OVER TIME, THAT WHOLE CESSPOOL IS ACTUALLY CLOGGED WITH SOLIDS.

>> SO THEN THAT'S WHY YOU SEE LIKE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, PUMPING OUT THEIR CESSPOOLS LIKE ONCE A, CAN PUMP IT OUT LIKE EVERY 2 WEEKS OR ONCE A WEEK.

BECAUSE NOW, THEIR CESSPOOL IS JUST A HOLDING TANK.

>>Daryl: PAYING FOR THAT.

>> VERY EXPENSIVE.

PUMP OUT TO COST TO $500 A PUMP OUT.

>>Daryl: BACK TO RAMZI MANSOUR.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS FOR EXAMPLE BIG ISLAND, WHAT DO YOU SEE MOST OF THOSE FOLKS WITH CESSPOOLS HAVING TO DO IN THE NEXT 15, 20 YEARS, 2050 APPROACHES?

>> CURRENTLY WORKING ON A MASTER PLAN FOR CESSPOOL CONVERSION FOR THE ENTIRE ISLAND.

INTENT FOR THEM MASTER PLAN, YOU COULD LOG INTO OUR SYSTEM ONCE THE PROGRAM, MASTER PLAN IS COMPLETED, AND WE'LL GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT OPTIONS YOU HAVE TO YOUR DISPOSAL.

WE HAVE SO MANY DECENTRALIZED AREAS, RIGHT?

SO AREAS IN COMMUNITIES WE DON'T HAVE A WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANT.

WASTE TREATMENT PLANT.

WE DON'T HAVE ANY SERVICE TO THEM.

SO GOING TO BE SITE SPECIFIC.

WE ARE GOING TO RECOMMEND SOME OF THE IWS, WHICH IS INDIVIDUAL WASTEWATER SYSTEM, THAT IS GOING TO ALLOW FOR.

>>Daryl: SEPTIC LEACH FIELD.

>> TWO SYSTEMS.

ATU, AEROBIC TREATMENT.

GET BETTER THAN THE SEPTIC AND LEACH FIELD.

>>Daryl: NONPROFIT DEALS WITH THESE TYPES OF SOLUTION.

ANY NEW TECHNOLOGY COMING DOWN THE PIPE, PARDON THE PUN.

>> THIS BUSINESS EVERYTHING IS A PUN.

>>Daryl: I'LL JUST STOP.

SO IS THERE NEW TECHNOLOGY COMING THAT MIGHT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM THAT'S WHAT I ALWAYS WANT.

>> TECHNOLOGY CAN'T SOLVE EVERYTHING.

THAT WAS PART OF WHY WE WERE FOUNDED WE ABOUT SERVING CESSPOOL CONVERSION WORKING GROUP WITH SINA AND RAMZI.

WE NEED NEW TECHNOLOGY HERE TRADITIONAL SEPTIC SYSTEMS DON'T DO WHAT'S CALLED DENITRIFICATION.

GETTING READY OF THE NITROGEN AND PHOSPHOROUS.

STUDY COMING OUT HAWAII BUSINESS MAGAZINE THIS WEEK ABOUT THE NITROGEN NUTRIENT LOADING ON THE CORAL REEFS WILL KILL THE CORAL REEFS.

NITROGEN.

LEADS TO ALGAL OVERGROWTH.

DECREASING FISH POPULATION.

STARTING TO DIE.

CAN'T JUST BE SYSTEM SYSTEM ESPECIALLY NEAR THE COAST.

HAS TO DO WITH NITRIFICATION.

>>Daryl: ENVIRONMENTALIST, WHY AREN'T REEFS DEAD ALREADY?

STUFF BEEN COMING OUT FOR DECADES AND DECADE.

SOME REACHING A TIPPING POINT WHERE OCEAN CAN'T HANDLE ANY MORE.

>> EXACTLY IT.

REACH TIP POINT.

PUAKO ON THE BIG ISLAND, DR. GREG EISNER DID THIS STUDY, SENIOR AUTHOR.

CAME OUT IN NATURE.

IN HIS LIFETIME, OVER 50 YEARS, PUAKO HAD 70% REEF COVER.

AND BECAUSE MOSTLY DUE TO WASTEWATER NUTRIENT LOADING, NOT AG SPECIFICALLY IN THAT AREA, IT'S GONE DOWN TO 7%.

SO JUST DRAMATIC DECLINE.

MA'ALAEA BAY IN MAUI, WENT FROM LIKE AROUND 60% CORAL REEF COVER TO ABOUT 8%.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PRECIPITOUS DRAMATIC DECLINES IN IT CORAL REEF COVERAGE.

>> IN ADDITION TO THAT, YOU TALKED ABOUT WHY NOT BEFORE, WHY NOW.

POPULATION, GROWTH.

HUMAN.

BACK 50 YEARS AGO, DIDN'T HAVE MANY PEOPLE AS WE HAVE NOW.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, NITROGEN IS NOT ONLY BAD FOR OUR ARRIVE, IT'S FOR OUR DRINKING WATER.

BABY BLUE SYNDROMES.

PROBABLY HEARD OF IT.

IF YOU HAVE HIGH NITROGEN MAKING IT TO YOUR GROUND WATER WELLS, COULD CREATE THAT BABY BLUE SYNDROME.

YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE NITROGEN IS BEING TREATED BEFORE IT MAKES TO THE GROUND WATER.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THESE BIG PICTURE THINGS, ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTION, AND EVERYTHING ELSE, DOES THAT WORK IN GETTING SOMEONE TO INVEST MONEY IN A NEW REPLACE TO CESSPOOL?

WHAT ARGUMENTS WORK IN YOUR COMMUNITY TO GET PEOPLE TO ACTUALLY SPEND THE MONEY OR ULTIMATELY DO THEY GET HAVE TO BE SUBSIDIZED TO THE FULL DEGREE OF CHANGING THESE SYSTEMS OUT?

>> MOST OF PEOPLE AT LEAST HALF OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY WOULD HAVE TO BE SUBSIDIZED THESE SYSTEMS ARE NOT INEXPENSIVE.

IT'S GOING TO COST SOMEBODY IN EACH HOUSE, 20 TO $40,000.

AND IT'S ALSO COMPLICATED.

BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THIS PROCESS.

STATE HAD A PROGRAM WHERE YOU COULD GET $20,000 I THINK IT WAS, AND WHAT HAPPENED, I TALKED TO PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY ABOUT THAT PROGRAM, THE PERMITTING TAKES SO LONG, RUNS BEYOND IT'S TIME LIMIT FOR THAT PROGRAM.

AND SO THERE ARE LOTS OF GLITCHES BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE CAN'T, THEY DON'T HAVE $20,000 SITTING IN THEIR BANK ACCOUNT THAT THEY CAN PUT OUT FOR THIS.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK.

I UNDERSTAND SINA PRUDER FROM THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT.

IS THAT PROGRAM IN YOUR DIVISION?

I DO HAVE A QUESTION THAT I WANT TO READ.

RESPECT OUR VIEWERS.

ABRAM FROM WAIMANALO.

I STILL HAVE A CESSPOOL.

WHERE I LIVE.

SUPPOSED TO PARTICIPATE WITH DOH PILOT GRANT PROGRAM OF $20,000 TO REPLACE IT.

PROGRAM UPGRADE.

SO FAR, UNFRIENDLY AND COOPERATIVE.

>> NEED TO BE MORE LENIENT.

LOTS OF HOOPS FOR PEOPLE TO JUMP THROUGH?

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT OR CAN WE DO THIS BETTER.

>> ACTUALLY ARE, MANAGING THE ADMINISTRATING THE GRANT PROGRAM.

THE LEGISLATURE APPROPRIATED $5 MILLION IN THE LAST SESSION.

2022 FOR DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH TO ADMINISTER A GRANT PROGRAM.

WHICH WOULD ALLOW, WELL, FOR CESSPOOLS THAT ARE PRIORITY ONE, AND 2 AREAS, THERE WAS RANKED IN THE RISK ASSESSMENT STUDY THAT WAS PART OF THE CESSPOOL CONVERSION WORKING GROUP, SO WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT WE DID ACTUALLY OPEN UP THE GRANT PROGRAM MARCH 2023, BUT LIKE OVERWHELMING RESPONSE TO THIS GRANT PROGRAM, THAT WITHIN 3 DAYS, WE ACTUALLY WERE ABLE TO SELECT 225 GRANT RECIPIENTS.

BUT THEN ALSO, MEANS THAT WE ACTUALLY HAVE A LONG LIST OF WAIT LIST OF PEOPLE THAT WANTED TO DO IT.

SO ALREADY, THERE IS THAT NEED OR THAT DESIRE THAT THEY WANT A SUBSIDY IN GRANT PROGRAM.

BUT   I DID TALK TO A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO GRANTEES.

DIDN'T ENCOUNTER COST FOR UPGRADE OF CESSPOOL.

$20,000 I THINK THIS IS GOING TO PAY FOR THE UPGRADE.

BUT LIKE A LOT OF SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE PROBABLY WON'T BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY TAKE THIS GRANT FINDING THAT THE COST TO UPGRADE IS LIKE 40,000, 50,000 AND CAN'T FIND THAT.

>>Daryl: 20,000 DOES NOT COVER IT.

>> NO.

20,000.

ONLY SUPPOSED TO SUBSIDIZE HALF.

BECAUSE IT'S COSTING LOOK A LOT OF HOMEOWNERS BETWEEN 30 TO 50.

I MEAN, CAN COST ACTUALLY OVER 50.

BECAUSE A LOT OF IT IS SITE SPECIFIC.

HAVE BLUE ROCK, OR IF YOU HAVE A TIGHT PROPERTY, WHERE YOU NEED HEAVY EQUIPMENT TO GO IN, YOU KNOW, IT CAN COST EVEN UP TO 100,000.

I NEED TO IMPORT SOME SOIL FOR YOUR LEACH FIELD.

BRING IT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> THAT'S A HUGE ISSUE.

THERE'S SPECIFIC TYPES OF SOIL.

THAT WE NEED THAT DOES THE BEST FILTRATION AND THERE'S NOT A LOT OF.

THAT'S LIKE A BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY FOR LIKE THESE QUARRIES AND SOIL PROVIDERS, WE NEED THIS THING AST M3 3.

SPECIFIC TYPE.

ON THE BIG ISLAND, DON'T HAVE THE SOIL.

ALL LAVA ROCK.

>>Daryl: THAT WAS ONE THE QUESTIONS I GOT.

PLANS TO DEAL WITH CESSPOOLS IN THE PUNA DISTRICT ON HAWAII ISLAND.

GROUND IS ESSENTIALLY HARD LAVA ROCK.

THE BIG ISLAND I UNDERSTAND, I DID GET ANOTHER QUESTION.

PER CAPITA WHICH ISLAND HAS THE MOST CESSPOOLS.

IS THAT THE BIG ISLAND?

>> THAT IS.

HOW DID THAT DEVELOP.

>> OFF THE GRID BIG ISLAND.

THESE AREN'T PEOPLE OFF THE GRID.

>> NO.

IT'S NOT.

WE HAVE ABOUT 55,000, THAT'S BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE ON THE DATA.

PROBABLY IN REALITY.

>> 55,000 ON BIG ISLAND.

>>Daryl: TOTAL OF 83.

>> MORE THAN HALF.

WE HAVE MORE THAN 60%.

>> I THINK EXPLAIN WHY.

WHY THEY HAVE THE 55,000.

BECAUSE IN 1991, CESSPOOLS WERE ACTUALLY BANNED IN KAUAI, OAHU, MAUI, BUT NOT ON THE BIG ISLAND.

BECAUSE OF CERTAIN LAWMAKERS AND THEY SAID WE NEEDED MORE TIME.

FOR CONSTITUENTS AND THEN THERE WAS A DEAL MADE WHERE THEY SAID, WE'RE GOING TO BAN CESSPOOLS IN 2000.

>>Daryl: BANNING NEW CESSPOOLS?

>> CONSTRUCTION OF NEW CESSPOOLS.

2016 WAS THE DEADLINE.

THEY STOPPED.

>> SUPPOSED TO BE 2000.

WHEN YOU HAVE LIKE THE MAYOR, MAYOR AND GOVERNOR, AT THAT TIME, BECAUSE WE WENT IN AND WE PUT IN RULES TO ACTUALLY BAN NEW CESSPOOLS ON THE BIG ISLAND IN 2000.

PUSH BACK AGAIN.

BIG PUSH BACK AND NO ONE REALLY WANTED TO TOUCH IT.

THE RULES SAT ON THE TABLE.

WASN'T UNTIL 2014 WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAD LIKE ON OUR SIDE, GARY GILL, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, AND HE WAS LIKE, PUSHING US TO SAY, OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE CESSPOOLS.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO BAN THEM THIS TIME.

STATEWIDE.

AND THEN ALSO WANTED TO DO A POINT OF SALE.

SELL YOUR PROPERTY.

>>Daryl: YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REFINANCE.

>> SUCCESSFUL OTHER STATES.

BUT AGAIN, THERE'S OPPOSITION TO THAT.

>> THAT DIDN'T PASS.

2014 TRIED TO DO THAT TRIED TO PASS IT.

IT WAS END OF GOVERNOR ABERCROMBIE'S ADMINISTRATION.

KIND OF HARD TO PASS THIS BILL WHEN HE WAS LIKE LEAVING OFFICE.

THAT JUST SAT ON HIS TABLE.

>>Daryl: FRUSTRATING FOR YOU KNOW THIS PROBLEM EXIST OF THE SEEING NEW CESSPOOLS PUT IN.

ARE WE STILL INSTALLING NEW CESSPOOLS TO THIS DAY?

NO.

OKAY.

DONE NOW?

>> NO.

>> BANNED.

>> I THINK BY 2016,.

>> MARCH 2016.

MADE A LOT OF GOOD PROGRESS.

STARTING IN 2016, PASSING ACT 120, AND THEN BANNING CESSPOOLS.

ACT 125 ALL HAD TO BE CONVERTED BY 2050.

WHICH SOUNDS LIKE GREAT PROGRESS.

ACT 132 CREATED CESSPOOL CONVERSION WORKING GROUP WE WERE IN.

BUT 2050, ALL THE NEW RESEARCH SAYS IS CORAL REEFS WON'T LAST THAT LONG.

A LOT OF THESE AREAS WON'T WORK.

HAVE TO HAVE EARLIER DEADLINES FOR PRIORITY ONE AREAS.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK THAT QUESTION.

RAMZI MANSOUR PERHAPS, WHAT ‑‑ YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY PRIORITY AREAS.

YOU CAN'T DO THIS ALL AT ONCE.

SO HOW ARE YOU IDENTIFYING PRIORITY AREAS, WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITY AREAS ON THE BIG ISLAND, ARE THERE PLACES WHERE PROBABLY A CESSPOOL ISN'T DOING ANY DAMAGE, BECAUSE IT'S SO FAR AWAY FROM FROM EVERYTHING?

>> SURE.

AS PART OF THE CESSPOOL COMMITTEE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, WE CREATED THIS KIND OF BOOK IN A SENSE THAT REPORT THAT CAME OUT OF COMMITTEE.

AND IDENTIFIED PRIORTY AREAS FOR THE ENTIRE STATE.

OUR COUNTY, WE HAVE THREE PRIORITY AREAS WHICH IS KAILUA KONA AND PUAKO PRIORITY NUMBER ONE.

>>Daryl: WHAT'S IT BASE ON?

BEING CLOSEST TO THE OCEAN?

>> CLOSEST TO THE OCEAN MUCH HAVE IMPACT TO GROUND WATER.

UNITED STATES.

OCEAN.

DRINKING WATER.

STREAMS.

SO UNIVERSITY HAWAII DID THE STUDY, HYDROLOGY, MONITORED FLOW, THROUGH ACTUAL CERTAIN DYE STUDY WITHIN THE CESSPOOLS.

THEY WERE ABLE TO TRACK AND FIND OUT THE RESULTS.

IT'S A HUGE THING.

DEFINITELY.

>>Daryl: IF I DON'T DO THIS, I'M GOING TO LOSE TRACK.

OF THE 50,000 CESSPOOLS, YOU HAVE ON YOUR ISLAND, HOW MANY OF THEM ARE IN THIS PRIORITY ONE AREA?

FOR EXAMPLE?

JUST TO GIVE PEOPLE A SENSE.

>> >> PRIORITY ONE AREA.

ABOUT 12,000 TOTAL.

>> I THINK IT WAS 12,000 WITH COMBINATION OF ONE AND TWO.

ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS PROBABLY ONLY LIKE 5,000 MAYBE.

>> 5,000 ALONG PUAKO AREA.

YEAH.

ONE WE CONCENTRATED ON AROUND 12,000, PROBABLY, REST IS PRIORITY 3.

THE QUESTION FOR PUNA DISTRICT, PRIORITY 3.

ZONED ONE AND ZONED 2.

>> ON OAHU, IT'S IN HAU'ULA IN THE PRIORITY ONE AREA?

>> I BELIEVE SO.

>> WHY THE PROGRAM.

DID YOU OPEN THE PROGRAM ONLY TO PRIORITY ONE?

>> PRIORITY ONE AND PRIORITY TWO.

>>Daryl: THAT IS THE $20,000 SUBSIDY.

>> YES.

>> PRIORITY ONE AND PRIORITY TWO.

>> IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO IT AGAIN, WOULD YOU DO IT THE SAME WAY?

IT SEEMS LIKE TO ME, YOU WOULD WANT TO REALLY GO AFTER THAT PRIORITY ONE AND HELP PEOPLE GET THROUGH THAT.

AS MUCH AS THEY CAN.

>> HERE'S THE CHALLENGE.

>> NOT ONLY 20,000 YOU COULD BE WITHIN PRIORITY ONE.

COULD CONNECT TO A TREATMENT PLANT.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE OPTIONS.

SO IF YOU HAVE SEWER COLLECTIONS SYSTEM, WITH SEWER PIPES, NEARBY PRIORITY NUMBER ONE,.

>> WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

>> I KNOW.

I'M SAYING, STATEWIDE.

BECAUSE THAT $20,000 CAME IN TO ASSIST EITHER CONNECTION OR CONVERSION.

SO BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, SO YOUR OPTION WOULD BE PUT A SEPTIC OR THE LEACH FIELD.

>> RIGHT.

>>Daryl: WHY IS IT HAU'ULA DOESN'T HAVE A SEWAGE SYSTEM?

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

WHO CAN ANSWER THAT?

>> WHAT WE HAVE IS KIND OF HAVE EXTREME IN THE STATE.

WE HAD ALL OF THESE INDIVIDUALS SYSTEMS AND THEN IN THE CITY AREAS, CAPITALS OF THE COUNTIES, WE HAVE SEWER IN THERE.

BUT SEWERING IS THE MOST EXPENSIVE.

LIKE A MILLION DOLLARS A MILE IT LAY THAT PIPE.

GOT TO BE GRAVITY.

AND YOU'RE DISRUPTING ROADS IN PLACES LIKE HALAU RIGHT ON THE COAST, HAU'ULA, ONE ON THE COAST.

TWO LANES ONE ROAD AND ONE ROAD OUT.

>> CAN'T DO THAT ESPECIALLY WITH SEA LEVEL RISE.

TRYING TO SAY THERE IS SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE.

DECENTRALIZED SYSTEMS.

>>Daryl: YOU HAVE A MICROSYSTEM SERVES COMMUNITY?

>> YEAH.

>> AREN'T THOSE REALLY EXPENSIVE?

>> THEY CAN BE.

THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO BE LESS.

THAN A SEWER.

>> $5 MILLION A MILE.

NOT A MILLION A MILE.

$5 MILLION.

IT COSTS YOU TO GET A SEWER SYSTEM, WHICH I FOUND OUT ON THE BIG ISLAND, ROCKS, THOUSAND TO $1,500 A FOOT.

12 INCHES.

GOT TO MAKE THOUSAND DOLLARS TO INSTALL IT.

A FOOT.

A FOOT.

12‑INCH.

>> WHY?

>> BECAUSE IT GOES BACK TO MY EARLIER STATEMENT.

STATE OF HAWAII IS VERY EXPENSIVE WHEN IT COMES TO CONSTRUCTION.

YOU'VE GOT LIMITED CONTRACTORS.

LIMITED PRODUCTS.

YOU'RE DEALING WITH HALAWA ROCKS.

BLUE ROCKS.

YOU HAVE TO EXCAVATE THROUGH.

YOU GOT HIGH LEVEL OF GROUND WATER.

HAVE TO DEWATER TO BE ABLE TO GET IN THERE AND PUT YOUR SEWER PIPE.

A LOT OF ENGINEERING CHALLENGES THAT COMES WITH THE CONSTRUCTION.

>> FEDERAL FUNDING AVAILABLE?

>> WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CHASE EVERY DOLLAR THAT WE COULD FEDERAL, STATE AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

IT'S NOT MUCH.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK.

FIRST, I GOT A COUPLE OF EDITORIAL COMMENTS THAT I APPRECIATE.

LAURA BY EMAIL.

WHOLE SITUATION SOUNDS DISGUSTING AND UNTENABLE.

PASS LAWS BANNING SUNSCREEN.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S FAR FROM WRONG.

>> WAY TOO SLOW FIXING PROBLEM OR OWN HEALTH AND ECONOMIC HEALTH.

PRIORITIZE THIS.

SINA PRUDER, IF SOMEONE SAYS, HERE'S A BLANK CHECK, AND YOU CAN AT LEAST TAKE CARE OF PRIORITY ONE AREAS, HOW MUCH WOULD IT COST?

>> WELL, FIRST.

>>Daryl: WILDLY CRAZY QUESTION.

>> 83,000 CESSPOOLS.

>> $2.6 BILLION.

>> ACTUALLY MORE THAN THAT.

ACTUALLY, BASED ON LIKE THE PRICING THAT GETTING FROM THE GRANT PROGRAM, AT FIRST, ESTIMATED $2 MILLION, USING THE CONSERVATIVE FIGURE OF 20,000.

KNOWING THAT'S BETWEEN 30 AND 50,000, IT WENT FROM LIKE 2 BILLION TO 4 BILLION FOR THE 83,000 CESSPOOLS.

FOR PRIORITIES ONE, I BELIEVE THERE WERE ONLY I THINK THERE WERE LIKE WAS IT LIKE 20,000 CESSPOOLS THAT WERE CONSIDERED PRIORITY ONE?

SO THAT WOULD BE ONE FOURTH OF THE COST.

1 BILLION.

>> $1 BILLION.

>>Daryl: START TALKING ABOUT REAL MONEY.

>> BALANCE BETWEEN AFFORDABLE HOUSING VERSUS INFRASTRUCTURE.

>>Daryl: THIS IS THE QUESTION.

ALL DO DIFFERENT THINGS MUCH NOT REALLY FAIR TO THIS I THINK BUT BECAUSE IT'S A POLICY QUESTION, BUT ANONYMOUS PERSON FROM HONOLULU SAYS, I I'VE BEEN WORKING WASTEWATER INDUSTRY FOR 30 YEARS.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS IS IT'S NOT THAT MANY.

PROBLEM IS CITY LEADERS ARE PUTTING MONIES INTO THINGS LIKE RAIL AND NOT ENOUGH MONIES INTO THE INFRASTRUCTURE UPGRADE SEWER SYSTEM.

AREN'T WE PUTTING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO SEWER SYSTEM NOW?

INTO THE EXISTING CITY/COUNTY SYSTEM BECAUSE OF THE SECONDARY TREATMENT?

>> WE STILL UNDER CONSENT DECREE WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR CITY & COUNTY.

THERE IS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING SPENT NOW FOR.

>>Daryl: COLLECTED AND SPENT.

>> COLLECTED AND SPENT.

>> UPGRADE FACILITIES WE HAVE WITHIN THE CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU.

>>Daryl: SEWER SYSTEM.

>> YEAH.

>> WE'RE USING HERE'S THE THING, KIND OF MIND‑BLOWING FOR ME.

USING SYSTEM THAT IS A 19TH CENTURY MODEL PIPE SEWAGE MILES AND MILES AND MILES, SPEND SAND ISLAND WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS, CONSENT DECREE IS, ALMOST $2 BILLION TO TREAT IT, AND THEN.

>>Daryl: PUT IT ALL IN ONE PLACE.

>> PUMP IT OUT INTO THE OCEAN.

FOG IS REUSED.

WHERE NOTHING IS REFUSE.

MODELS NOW WORKING WITH THE GATES FOUNDATION AND KIND OF THESE TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES AROUND THE WORLD, YOU CAN REUSE 100% OF IT.

AND SO FOR LIKE LAHAINA, WE IN MA'ALAEA, MAUI, WE PROPOSED 100% RECYCLING OF THE WASTEWATER AND THE SLUDGE, TO CREATE BIOTAR OUT OF THE SLUDGE, SOIL AMENDMENT.

AND THEN CREATE A GREENBELT WHICH ALSO EXTENSIVELY SERVES FIRE BREAK AROUND THE AREA.

THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE COULD USE THAT WASTEWATER, PRODUCTIVELY AND WE HAD ACTUALLY KIND OF SUGGESTED THIS TO MAUI COUNTY DURING THAT LAWSUIT INJECTION WELLS CASE.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE IDEAS WE SAY.

>> HEY, WHY DON'T YOUUSE THIS AND CREATE RESERVOIRS HAVE IN THIS DRY AREAS ABOVE LAHAINA.

IN CASE FIRES.

>>Daryl: WHAT IS THE TIMELINE ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND HOW DOES THAT ROLL OUT TO THE REST OF THE THESE COMMUNITIES?

2050 A REASONABLE DEADLINE TO REPLACE SYSTEMS WITH THINGS LIKE THAT?

>> I THINK IT HAS TO BE MUCH BEFORE THAT.

JUST FOR THE CORAL REEFS.

I DON'T THINK WE CAN, WAIT THAT LONG.

I THINK THERE ARE NATIONAL, URGENT ISSUES AT THAT WE COULD I THINK REALLY PUSH AGAINST THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SAY, HEY, HAWAII CAN'T DO THIS.

COUNTIES CAN'T DO THIS BY THEMSELVES.

FOR THE SAKE OF PROTECTION OF OUR CORAL REEF AN HEALTH OF OUR DRINKING WATER.

NEED FEDERAL SUPPORT TO DO THIS.

>>Daryl: FEDERAL MONEY PENDING OUT THERE OR HAVE THERE BEEN REQUESTS AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH THAT?

BIG INFRASTRUCTURE BILL GET ANYTHING OUT OF THAT.

>> DIDN'T EVEN GET THAT MUCH.

EVERYONE SAYS, OH, YEAH, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS GETTING INFUSED INTO THE STATE.

SO LIKE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, ARE WASTEWATER BRANCH, I ALSO ADMINISTER CLEAN WATER STATE REVOLVING FUND.

>> THROUGH THAT BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW GRANT.

RECEIVE $12 MILLION.

REVOLVING WASTEWATER IS NOT A SEXY THING.

YOU TALK ABOUT.

>> DEFINITE I WILL NOT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ROADWAY.

WATER SYSTEM.

EVEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CLEAN WATER ACT, LOOK AT THE TITLE.

CLEAN WATER ACT NOT WASTEWATER FUNDING.

IT GOES INTO THE DRINKING WATER FUNDING EVERYBODY FORGETS ABOUT THE WASTEWATER.

>> WE NEED TO REBRAND THAT.

REBRANDING THE NAME MAY BE GET US MORE MONEY.

>> THAT'S OUR UNOFFICIAL SLOGAN.

>> MAKING SANITATION SEXY AGAIN.

EASIER TO REPLACE ALL THE CESSPOOLS.

NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT.

KNOWN WANTS TO TOUCH IT.

>> EXACTLY.

IT IS MEASURE OF SOCIETY HOW WELL THEY DEAL WITH THEIR WASTE.

PLASTIC POLLUTION WHEN WE STARTED THAT, NO ONE TALKED ABOUT.

THAT ONE CARE THROUGH, YOUTH MOVEMENT AND BUILDING, IT IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN EVERYBODY ADDRESSES IT.

WASTEWATER IS THE SAME THING.

IF YOU GOOGLE HOW MANY TIMES IT WAS MENTIONED, IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, IT IS A STEEP CURVE.

WE IGNORED IT FOR TOO LONG.

>> PEOPLE ARE GOING WE CANNOT KICK THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD ANY FURTHER.

IT HAS TO BE DEALT WITH NOW.

>>Daryl: DO YOU FEEL LIKE, THIS IS RESONATING IN THESE COMMUNITIES?

IS YOUR COMMUNITY SAYING, WE DO NEED TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE TOOLS TO DO IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENING.

SEE THE BROWN WATER OUT THERE.

IN OUR WE HAVE ABOUT 8 STREAMS IN HAU'ULA.

HOMES ARE BUILT ALL ALONG THOSE STREAMS.

AND YOU CAN SMELL IT.

AND THAT IS PRETTY BAD.

SO I'M SURE IT'S DEGRADING OUR REEFS AS WELL.

IF YOU CAN SMELL IT GOING OUT INTO THE OCEAN.

OUTRAGEOUS BUT THAT'S HAPPENING.

WE NEED HELP WITH FUNDING.

LET'S GO TO THE FEDS.

WHATEVER WE HAVE TO DO, BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SOME BIG CHANGES.

NOT JUST HAU'ULA.

THERE'S HAU'ULA, I KNOW WE'RE A PRIORITY ONE.

KAAAWA DOESN'T HAVE A WASTEWATER PLANT.

PUNALU'U DOESN'T HAVE A WASTEWATER PLANT.

KAHALUU.

>> I AGREE.

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO START LOOKING AT THE STATE OF HAWAII.

AND SO MUCH MONEY UP THERE.

I MEAN, THIS IS MAJOR HEALTH AND MENTAL ISSUE.

>> YEAH.

>> TO ME, WE NEED TO START GETTING SOME OF THAT FUNDING INSTEAD OF GIVING IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

>> SO I MEAN, ESPECIALLY LAWMAKERS, BECAUSE I DO BRING IT UP WHEN I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO SO, WATER AND WASTEWATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE STATE IS SIGNIFICANTLY LIKE UNDERFUNDED.

REALLY.

I MEAN, WHY DO YOU THINK YOU SEE ALL OF THESE WATER BREAKS?

BECAUSE THE BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY THEY DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE THE FUNDING TO DO REPLACEMENT WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

JUST BREAKS.

THEN YOU MENTIONED EARLIER RAIL.

EXCISE TAX.

ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FUND INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH WE NEED, WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE, WATER AND WASTEWATER, EVEN FOR AFFORDABLE HOMES.

JUST THE STATE.

AND ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT IS YOU MAY HAVE TO SLIGHTLY DO INCREASE IN EXCISE TAX.

PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT, THIS IS CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE.

THAT WE NEED TO INVEST IN.

EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT LIKE OH, YEAH, WANT TO REPLACE CESSPOOLS.

WANT FUNDING FOR WASTEWATER.

WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.

THERE'S ONLY LIKE TALK.

BUT THERE'S NOTHING, NO ACTION TAKEN.

TO ACTUALLY FIND OR IT FIND SOLUTIONS OF WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO COME FROM.

>>Daryl: LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION.

ALL OF THESE ISSUES THAT WE DEAL WITH ON THIS PROGRAM, UNDERSTANDING FINANCING SCHEMES IS PRETTY TECHNICAL.

JUST TO KEEP IT SIMPLE, I BET YOU FOLKS IN HAU'ULA, YOUR WATER BILL IS GOING TO BE THE SAME KIND OF WATER BILL I GET.

HOW MUCH WATER I USE, I PAY TO THE SEWER SYSTEM.

IT DOESN'T EVEN CONNECT TO YOU.

WE'RE PAYING SEWER SYSTEM THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>>Daryl: THEN THEY'RE GOING TO TELL YOU, NOW PAY FOR TO REPLACE YOUR SYSTEM.

WITH SOMETHING ELSE.

STILL BE PAYING INTO IT.

I'M PAYING INTO IT.

TRADITIONAL HOUSE.

TRADITIONAL ARRANGEMENT.

BUT WE'VE GOT SYSTEM IN THIS STATE WHERE PEOPLE ARE PAYING FOR WASTEWATER TREATMENT.

>> RIGHT.

ALL WRAPPED INTO ONE PAYMENT.

>>Daryl: IS THAT ALL GOING INTO THE RIGHT DIRECTION OR IS IT JUST NOT ENOUGH?

>> COUNTING FROM DIFFERENT.

>> I'VE BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS A LONG TIME.

TO UNDERSTAND IT.

IF YOU GET PAY FOR A SERVICE, YOU SHOULD GET THE SERVICE BECAUSE YOU DON'T THINK IT'S LEGAL TO CHARGE YOU FOR SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT GETTING.

SO IF IT YOU PAYING FOR IT, MAYBE YOU SHOULD DEMAND YOUR COMMUNITY SHOULD DEMAND, AND THEY SHOULD BUILDING IS FOR YOU.

OR AT LEAST CONVERT YOUR CESSPOOL TO SEPTIC.

BECAUSE YOU'RE PAYING FOR IT IF YOU PAYING FOR IT.

>>Daryl: KIND OF WHAT I'M GETTING AT.

THEY'RE ALREADY PAYING, I MEAN, I THINK I'M PAYING HUNDRED SOMETHING A MONTH FOR MY SEWER SYSTEM.

YOU PROBABLY ARE TOO.

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I DON'T KNOW.

WATER YOU'RE PAYING WATER.

TALKING ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS COMING DOWN THE ROAD.

BUT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT WASTEWATER.

JUST WATER COMING OFF OF YOUR PROPERTY.

CHARGING YOU FOR THAT.

>> STORM WATER.

>> THAT'S DIFFERENT.

STORM WATER.

>>Daryl: NOT GET CONFUSED.

>> STORMWATER IS DIFFERENT.

>>Daryl: HOW DO THEY DIFFERENTIATE ON OAHU WATER BILL WHETHER YOU'RE PAYING SEWER BILL OR NOT.

>> IT'S A SEPARATE FEE.

>>Daryl: I KNOW.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT SHE'S NOT PAYING.

>> SHE'S NOT.

IF SHE'S NOT ON THE SEWER, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO PAY.

SO ONE ASPECT OF THIS THING THAT'S A LITTLE BROKEN IS THAT THE PEOPLE DO THE RIGHT THING, OR ARE ON SEWER OR UPGRADE, THEY'RE PAYING BUT PEOPLE ON SEWER ARE NOT PAYING.

>>Daryl: ON CESSPOOLS.

>> PEOPLE ON CESSPOOLS ARE NOT PAYING.

>> ONE THING NEEDS TO CHANGE.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO CONTRIBUTE.

JUST A SIGN OF CIVILIZED SOCIETY.

TREAT OUR WATER.

>>Daryl: JUST DO THIS.

LET'S ASSUME THAT I KNOW THAT YOU THOUGHT SO.

BUT LET'S ASSUME THAT THEY SAY, OKAY, FOR YOU FOLKS IN HAU'ULA, INSTEAD OF YOU NOT PAYING TO THE SEWER SYSTEM, YOU START PAYING TO THE SEWER SYSTEM AND GOVERNMENT THEN COMES UP WITH A SEWER SYSTEM FOR YOU IN SOME FORM, SOME TECHNOLOGY, WOULD THAT BE MORE TENABLE TO THE COMMUNITY THAN BEING FORCE TO REPLACE A CESSPOOL?

>> YES.

I THINK IT WOULD BE WHOLE LOT LESS.

PEOPLE COULD PAY A MONTHLY BILL, NOT 20, 30, 40, $50,000.

>> >>Daryl: MIGHT NOT BE LESS.

>> OVER TIME.

>> OVER TIME.

>>Daryl: COMMUNITY PAYING NOT JUST INDIVIDUALS PAYING.

>> RIGHT.

CHAPTER 32, ALLOWS YOU TO CREATE SEWER COMMUNITY DISTRICT.

SO YOU COULD CREATE A SEWER COMMUNITY DISTRICT WHERE YOUR GOVERNMENT ENTITY CITY & COUNTY OF HONOLULU WILL FUND IT THROUGH BONDS.

AND THEY TAKE THAT CAPITAL COST AND DIVVY UP THE CAPITAL COST OVER THE NUMBER OF RESIDENTS WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY.

CERTAIN SYSTEMS.

COMES AT A COST.

>> I THINK IT'S LIKE, OVER TIME, BECAUSE NO ONE LIKE ALMOST NONE OF US CAN AFFORD $40,000 CONVERSION.

DON'T HAVE THAT DISPOSAL INCOME.

PAY A MONTHLY FEE, OVER 40 YEARS.

YOU CAN DO IT.

EVERYBODY COULD DO IT.

>> WHY SO MUCH EASIER IF YOU HAVE NEW HOUSE.

>> IF YOU HAVE A NEW HOUSE, IT'S PART OF YOUR PAYMENT FOR YOUR HOME.

>>Daryl: HOW CLOSE ARE WE, PEOPLE USING THIS TOOL, THAT DESCRIBING.

PROGRESS IN THE COMMUNITIES TOWARDS THESE COMMUNITY SOLUTIONS?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY YET.

AND A LOT OF IT IS BECAUSE   THERE IS NO FUNDING TO DO IT.

>>Daryl: DOESN'T SOUND LIKE THERE'S MUCH EDUCATION GOING ON EITHER.

>> I KNOW.

WE ARE WORKING ON ‑‑ >>Daryl: NOT ON YOU.

>> JUST SAY.

>> OH, NO.

>>Daryl: JUST GOING, WOW.

I'M A REPORTER.

I SHOULD KNOW THIS STUFF.

>> AWARENESS.

>> I MEAN, I CAME BACK AFTER OUR LAST LEDGE SESSION CESSPOOLS BILL IS NOT PASSED.

THINKING, WHAT DO WE REALLY NEED TO DO?

AND I'M LIKE, NEVER REALLY LIKE DEVELOPED A REALLY GOOD OUTREACH PLAN FOR EDUCATION AND AWARENESS.

I MEAN, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT BY TRYING TO DEVELOP SOMETHING LIKE THAT, A LOT OF PEOPLE DO KNOW ABOUT CESSPOOLS.

BUT EVERYONE IN THE STATE NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT CESSPOOLS.

AND WHEN YOU CAN GET THAT AWARENESS, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET THE BUY‑IN.

OF HOW CESSPOOLS ARE IMPACTING THE ENVIRONMENT AND PUBLIC HEALTH.

>> IN ADDITION TO THAT, WE KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD TO YOUR KIDS, YOUR GRANDKIDS.

THINKING ABOUT IT.

PEOPLE THAT THOUGHT OF IT 50 YEARS AGO, NOW WHOSE PICKING UP THE COST OF $2 BILLION?

SO YOU KEEP KICKING THAT, GOING TO BE $20 BILLION.

WE GOT TO FIND A SOLUTION.

>>Daryl: NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT TECHNOLOGY.

THAT I THINK ARE INTERESTING.

AGAIN, I THINK THAT WE'VE GOTTEN TO A PLACE WHERE SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE KIND OF A AGREES.

IDEA OF FORCING A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS TO BUY THEIR OWN.

JUST NOT GOING TO WORK.

JUST DOESN'T SEEM UNLESS THEY GET IT PAID FOR COMPLETELY BY THE GOVERNMENT.

WHICH DOESN'T SEEM TO WANT TO PAY FOR IT.

SO NOW YOU'RE STARTING TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE ALTERNATIVES OUT THERE WHERE COMMUNITIES CAN WORK TOGETHER AND SO HAS ANYONE CONSIDERED MULTIPLE COMPOSTING SYSTEMS TO MANAGE WASTEWATER?

ONE QUESTION.

BACTERIA ENZYMES STUDIED USED IN SOME PLACES TO TREAT SEPTIC SYSTEM EFFLUENT.

DO ANY PANELISTS HAVE ANY CONVERSATION ON CHLORINE DIOXIDE AND USE FOR SEWAGE.

DENNIS FROM MAUI.

OKAY.

I THINK THAT'S ENOUGH TO START WITH.

STEWART, WHAT DO YOU SEE OUT THERE AS THE MOST PROMISING WAY OF DEALING WITH THESE COMMUNITIES THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO WORK TOGETHER OR BE BROUGHT TOGETHER TO BEAR ON THIS?

>> YEAH.

>> WE HAVE OUR BIG FOURTH ANNUAL INNOVATIONS SANITATION COMING UP LESS THAN 2 WEEKS.

BIGGEST THEMES.

>>Daryl: AT LEAST CAME UP WAY SEXY TITLE.

>> EXACTLY.

RIGHT.

WHO DOESN'T WANT TO ATTEND THAT.

OUR BIGGEST THEMES NEED FOR DENITRIFICATION AND DECENTRALIZATION.

AND THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT ARE SO REMOTE HOUSES ARE TOO FAR PART.

SOME AREASEN THE NORTH SHORE OF OAHU.

HAVE TO DO INDIVIDUAL SYSTEMS.

BE TOO EXPENSIVE.

BUT THEN THERE ARE ALSO AREAS IN WAIALUA PRIORITY ONE AREA, WHERE THEY'RE SO CLOSE TOGETHER.

THAT IS JUST NO‑BRAINER TO DO DECENTRALIZED MECHANISMS.

ONE CALLED PRELOS MODEL.

PRESSURIZED LIQUID ONLY SEWER.

YOU HAVE A TANK.

A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE HOMES DON'T HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR THE LEACH FIELD.

GO TO THE TANK.

ONLY PUMPS FROM THE LIQUIDS ZONE.

CLEAR ZONE.

TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

>>Daryl: SHARED TANK U.

>> YEAH.

PUMPS USING PVC PIPE.

DON'T NEED TO DIG UP STREET.

>> GO RIGHT UNDER SURFACE.

>> ONE AREA PROMISE.

PACKAGE PLANTS.

BIG PRICE COMES FROM THESE CENTRALIZED MUNICIPAL SYSTEMS, THAT THEY'RE UNDERGROUND AND THEY'RE JUST HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS DOLLARS.

PACKAGED PLANTS.

JUST LAY A CONCRETE SLAB AND HIGH LEVEL OF TREATMENT LIKE MBR, AND MEMBRANE BIOREACTOR.

HIGHEST FORMS.

TECHNICAL.

BUT THESE KIND OF DECENTRALIZED MODELS ARE GOING TO BE CHEAPER MORE EFFICIENT AND REUSE THE WATER.

>> THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

LET'S NOT WASTE THIS WATER ESPECIALLY LEEWARD SIDE OF THE ISLAND.

SO DRY.

SO MUCH SCRUB AND FUEL.

THAT IS JUST WAITING TO CATCH FIRE.

LET'S USE THIS WASTEWATER GET IT IN THE GROUND, REPLENISH THE AQUIFER AND USE IT.

>>Daryl: GO AHEAD.

>> SO YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITIES.

WHAT CAN A COMMUNITY DO TO PUSH THIS EFFORT IN OUR COMMUNITIES OUT IN OUR PRIORITY AREA, IN KO'OLAULOA?

WHAT CAN WE DO?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK RAMZI TOUCHED ON EARLIER.

CREATING SEWER IMPROVEMENT DISTRICT SPECIAL DISTRICT, I THINK IS GOING TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

THAT COULD BE DONE IN ONE OR TWO WAYS.

HAVE THE PEOPLE, 55% OF THE POPULATION SAYS, WE WANT TO DO THIS.

REST HAVE TO GO ALONG.

OR THE COUNTY COUNCIL DECLARE IT.

>> WE'RE UNINCORPORATED LIKE ALL OF HAWAII.

SEEMS TO ME, WORK WITH THE CITY.

>> PROVIDE YOU WITH THE FUNDING.

UNDER CHAPTER 32.

WHAT YOU DO, CREATED COMMUNITY LEADERSHIP AND YOU GET, YOU PROBABLY NEED TO GET ABOUT 67% ACCEPTANCE FROM THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

SOME OF THEM PROBABLY GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND.

DROP OUT.

SO YOU NEED SOLID 55% ROBUST.

>>Daryl: CONDO ASSOCIATION.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> NO FORMAL WAY TO THAT.

THAT I KNOW OF.

>> KNOCK ON DOORS.

WE HAVE OTHER COMMUNITIES.

>> TELL THE CITY THAT YOU HAVE 65%?

>> FIRST YOU NEED TO GET YOUR COMMUNITY TO AGREE, GET THE VOTES, THEN GO MEET WITH THE CITY, SAY, I WANT TO TRY TO UTILIZE THIS, THAT ASPECT OF CHAPTER 32, WHERE I'M GOING TO CREATED SEWER DISTRICT FOR MY COMMUNITY.

>>Daryl: ANYBODY DOING THAT?

>> NEED TO GET THE SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE.

FASTER DONE THROUGH COUNTY COUNCIL.

COUNTY COUNCIL NOT GOING TO DO ON THEIR OWN UNLESS THE PEOPLE WANT TO DO IT.

I THINK.

>> WE WORK WITH THE COUNTY COUNCIL A LOT.

>> YEAH, YOU NEED TO WORK WITH FINANCE DEPARTMENT.

>>Daryl: LET ME GO TO YOU.

WASTEWATER BRANCH MANY WAYS IS LIKE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH.

YOU MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES SUPPOSED TO BE FOLLOWING.

YOU'RE ALSO TRYING TO EDUCATE AND IMPROVE THE WHOLE SYSTEM HOLISTICALLY BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT THE COUNTIES GOING ALONGING WITH THE COUNTIES ON BOARD HAS TO WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN WITH THE CESSPOOL RENOVATION.

>> I THINK THEY ARE.

OVER THERE TRYING TO DO A WASTEWATER MANAGEMENT PLAN THAT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT SOLUTIONS FOR CESSPOOLS.

I KNOW CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU WITH DR. ROGER BABCOCK, DOING THE SAME THING FOR OAHU.

OTHER ISLANDS, I THINK KIND OF LIKE STRUGGLING.

MAUI AND KAUAI.

SO YEAH, YOU KNOW, BEING PART OF THAT CESSPOOL CONVERSION WORKING GROUP, STAKEHOLDERS WERE ACTUALLY COUNTY WASTEWATER DIVISION REPRESENTATIVES.

SO I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT, IT'S KIND OF LIKE OWNERSHIP THAT THIS IS NOT A STATE PROBLEM.

I MEAN, STATE ONLY PROBLEM.

STATE AND COUNTIES.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO FIND A SOLUTION.

BECAUSE THE STATE CAN'T DO IT BY THEMSELVES.

>>Daryl: REAL QUICK QUESTION.

COUPLE QUICK QUESTIONS.

HOW SERIOUS IS THE CESSPOOL ISSUE ON ISLANDS BESIDES BIG ISLAND?

WHAT ABOUT UPCOUNTRY MAUI FOR EXAMPLE?

HAVE YOU BEEN KEEPING TRACK OF OTHER ISLANDS AS WELL.

>> THROUGH THE CESSPOOL COMMITTEE, MAUI I THINK PROBABLY ABOUT 5% UNSEWERED.

SO MOST OF MAUI ACTUALLY THEY HAVE SEWER SYSTEMS.

SO THE NUMBER IS BETWEEN OAHU AND MAUI, PROBABLY TWO COUNTIES WITHIN THE STATE THEY HAVE A GOOD SEWER SYSTEM.

>> UPCOUNTRY MAUI.

IS PROBLEM.

STUDY DONE.

THEY SHOWED WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER, BLUE BABY SYNDROME.

ELEVATED RATES OF NITROGEN IN THE DRINKING WATER.

SOMETHING IN HAWAII PARADISE PARKS HIGHEST DENSITIES MAUI MEADOWS ON MAUI, THE NITROGEN FROM THE WASTEWATER CAN GET IN THE DRINKING WATER AND THE PRIVATE DRINKING WATER WELLS IN HAWAII PARADISE PARK, 50% OF THE ONES THEY SAMPLED SHOWED FECAL INDICATOR BACTERIA.

IF THAT DOESN'T GROSS YOU OUT AND GET YOU INTO ACTION.

>> IMAGINE IN ADDITION TO THAT, HAVING YOUR OWN PRIVATE WELL.

WITHIN THAT AREA.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE GOING TO PUMP OUT OF THAT WELL?

>> YEAH.

SEXY STUFF.

>>Daryl: JUST TO GIVE US OPTIMISM.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

ONLY GOT ABOUT A MINUTE.

DO YOU THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO THIS?

>> IT'S GOING TO BE HARD.

I THINK I'M THINKING AT LEAST IF WE TAKING STEPS MOVING FORWARD, AT LEAST, SMALL BABY STEPS.

KEEP ON MOVING.

CAN'T JUST LET IT STOP.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK ALL 83,000 CESSPOOLS ARE GOING TO BE UPGRADED IN 2050.

BUT THERE HAS TO BE MOVING.

CAN'T JUST STOP.

SO.

>>Daryl: SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE BEEN A PERSON TRYING TO PUSH THIS, LITTLE FRUSTRATION.

>> NOT FRUSTRATION KIND OF HAPPY BECAUSE AT FIRST, 2014, IT WAS LIKE ME AND MAYBE TWO OF MY OTHER STAFF IN DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.

BUT THEN ACTUALLY A LOT MORE STAKEHOLDERS, WHICH I'M REALLY HAPPY.

NOT ME DOING IT.

>> GOT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE HERE, I HAVE TO STOP.

HIT THE END OF THE PROGRAM.

GREAT JOB.

THANK YOU.

>> MAHALO FOR JOINING US TONIGHT AND WE THANK OUR GUESTS: SINA PRUDER, THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH’S WASTEWATER BRANCH PRESIDENT DOTTY KELLY‑PADDOCK, PRESIDENT OF THE HAUULA COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION, RAMZI MANSOUR, THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT FOR THE COUNTY OF HAWAII.

AND STUART COLEMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF WAI—WASTEWATER ALTERNATIVES AND INNOVATIONS.

NEXT WEEK ON INSIGHTS, RECENTLY STUDIES SHOW THAT HAWAII WENT FROM 34TH TO 44TH IN THE NATION FOR THE ECONOMIC WELL‑BEING OF CHILDREN.

WHAT IS BEING DONE TO REVERSE THE TREND AND HELP OUR KEIKI THRIVE?

PLEASE JOIN US THEN.

FOR INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII.

I’M DARYL HUFF.

ALOHA.