[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - Hey, folks, we have them back.

Jeanette Hoffman, Republican strategist, President of Marathon Public Affairs, and also, Brendan Gill, a Democratic strategist and President and CEO of the BGill Group.

Good to see you folks.

- Thanks, Steve.

- Thank you.

- All right, come on, let's bring the energy folks, (Jeanette chuckles) because there is a gubernatorial election in New Jersey.

First in June, I don't want to get into horse race stuff, and then in November, there'll be the real election.

Jeanette, let me ask you this.

The top two, go three, three top issues, let's see if Brendan agrees, that now will just dictate the election, but more importantly, the next governor's gonna have to face on behalf of the people in New Jersey.

Please, you first, Jeannette.

- Overall, affordability, energy, because our energy bills are going up by 20% this summer on the electricity side, and then to property taxes, right?

It's always property taxes, Steve.

We have the highest property taxes in the entire country and they just got higher under Governor Murphy.

So those three issues together, that's what everyone's going to be talking about on the campaign trail, Republican and Democratic.

- Brendan, your turn.

- I don't disagree with Jeanette, Steve, on affordability and the issue of energy right now.

It's a hot topic, obviously, with the potential increases that are coming.

But an increasingly new issue that is emerging in real time, particularly in the Democratic primary is, how you're going to deal with and fight and/or stand up, depending on what of those buckets you're in to the president and the national situation.

So we're seeing an increase on the voters minds, particularly in the Democratic primary, on the issues that Jeanette just touched on for sure as well.

And I don't think there's a big difference on those issues between both sides of the aisle on this, but there is one particular difference right now on the Democratic side, which is what are you going to do and how are you going to handle the current president of the United States?

- Jeanette, is that an issue for the next governor?

Okay, the campaign is one thing, okay.

Again, you check out the whole range of programs, talking about where things are in the race, the latest poll, just not who we are and what we do.

But Jeanette, do you actually believe as Brendan just laid out, that the next governor will have to figure out what he or she will need to do to fight or not fight the Trump administration on policy issues?

- Well, I think there's always a back and forth between the state and the federal government, having to work together or to fight back, depending on whether the policies make sense or not.

So I'm not sure where we're gonna be, come this campaign season, come the fall, but right now, look, you saw President Trump saying he's going to reinstate the SALT tax deduction.

I think that's a good thing.

I think you heard Governor Murphy saying, "I want to work with the president to do that."

- Jeanette, hold on one second.

To clarify, right now, it's capped at $10,000, your deduction for your state and local taxes.

And President Trump is saying he's open to what, Jeanette?

- He's open to getting rid of that cap because that really punishes New Jerseyans, New Yorkers who have higher property taxes, who have higher deductions than that.

So he's looking to eliminate that cap for New Jersey, New York residents.

He was the one that instated that cap, let's not forget.

- That right - But he said he would work with New Jersey and New Yorkers to get that back.

So that's one thing that, we should be working with our federal government to do.

And the other thing is to get rid of that congestion pricing.

- Brendan, I mean, why can't whoever becomes a governor saying, if that happens, big if, if that happens and the SALT deduction is not capped any longer at 10 grand and now there's no cap, why shouldn't the next governor say, "Thank you, Mr.

President?"

- Well, I think even right now, you see Governor Murphy taking a little bit of the other approach.

He's been very clear where he says, "I'm gonna work with the Trump administration when I think it's in the interest of the state, and I'm gonna stand up when I think it isn't."

But what we're also seeing is what the additional, what I'm gonna call chaos more broadly, that's coming out of Washington, that this is not just a democratic primary voter issue, this is becoming an unaffiliated voter issue as well.

So if you talk about the issue of medic- let's just use Medicaid.

- Sure, let's talk about it.

Explain that to folks.

Brendan.

What's at stake?

- I mean, what's at stake right now is the new programmings, when you're talking about birthing, healthcare coverage, senior assisted living.

In a state of 9 million people, Steve, 2 million people in the state of New Jersey use Medicaid in some capacity.

Think about that number.

2 million in a state of 9 million.

So if you start talking about cutting programming within that program, that has a serious impact on the state of New Jersey.

If you start talking about cutting the Department of Education, for example, we have about 20, at least accounted for about 25 to $30 million from the federal government that goes into the state budget that covers education issues.

If you're talking about just federal money alone, when we start talking about cuts, in a state budget of roughly $80 million, roughly 30 billion comes from some type of federal funding source.

So these issues become increasingly important to people, whether it's job training, whether it's healthcare.

- Brendan, hold on one second.

I'm gonna give Jeanette.

Jeanette, can you do the Medicaid issue first?

- Sure.

- Brendan's saying 2 million out of 9 million affected by it, if in fact the Feds cut Medicaid.

Go on that first.

- First of all, Steve, that is a big if because the speaker and the president have said, "We're not cutting Medicaid programs for beneficiaries.

What we're going to do is," - - Speaker Johnson and President Trump.

- Right, correct.

"we're going to cut waste, fraud, and abuse."

And if you don't think that there is waste, fraud and abuse in Medicaid, you have another thing coming.

We've seen such fraud, I mean, go back to Bob Menendez and his friend Salmon Melgen who got convicted of Medicaid fraud right there.

The Government Office of Accountability showed just last year, under the Biden administration, millions and millions of dollars of fraudulent payments that went out in Medicaid and Social Security.

So there's plenty of places to cut.

What we don't wanna see, and what our Republican members of Congress have even said that they won't vote for is cuts to Medicaid beneficiaries and programs.

- And you're confident the President and the Speaker of the House are not looking to do that, Jeanette?

- Well, I don't speak for them, Steve.

- No, are you confident that that's not their agenda?

- That is what they've said, and I can take them at their word.

So those, and that would be politically damaging to them.

And listen, you know, even Steve Bannon, who's a very controversial figure, and not someone I, you know, really support, but he has said, a lot of MAGA people are on Medicaid.

This would be politically - - That's right.

- damaging to Republicans and independents and invariably to Democrats alike.

So, I just wanted to stop Brendan right there.

It is a very big if.

- Big if, go ahead Brendan.

- But it's a big if, but that's what sums up the problem right there.

President Trump right now has the lowest approval rating of any president in the history of polling at this point in time in his term.

So that's just a fact.

The fact on Tuesday.

- Well, the, hold on, Brendan, respectfully, the Democrats' public approval rating based on an MSNBC and CNN poll is much worse.

Is that fair to say as well?

- That's absolutely fair to say.

- Talking about Congress, Democrats in Congress.

The reputation in among the public is horrific.

- True, Steve, but I'll push back on that and tell you that right now - - Sure.

- in the generic ballot, Democrat versus Republican, House of Representatives ballots, Democrats are up by 13 points in the generic ballot.

I'm not saying - Finish your point, Brendan, I'll come back to you, Jen.

Finish your point, Brendan.

- I'm not saying that we don't have some work to do on our brand as a Democratic party.

Do not get me wrong, and the overall numbers have been low.

I just wanted to come back to this to sum it up, Steve, is that the real, when we talk about the issues, which is where we started, like what are the issues - - That's right.

- that'd be on the minds of voters in this governor's race, I think because of how Donald Trump handles himself, because of the constant kind of new information, chaos, whatever you want to call it, coming out of Washington every day, if it continues where we are right now, his leadership, his presidency, and how the potential governor's gonna deal with that will be an issue.

- So Jeanette, Brendan is saying, President Trump himself and his leadership is a huge issue for the next governor.

Go ahead.

- Brendan would love for this election to be about federal issues, but it's not.

This is New Jersey.

This is a governor's race.

This is a referendum on Governor Murphy and his past eight years, taking us from a budget of 35 billion to 56 billion, increasing spending by $23 billion with nothing to show for it.

Increasing property taxes, increasing energy rates by 20% this June.

This state has come become more and more unaffordable for new Jerseyans to live.

- But Governor Murphy did that alone, Jeanette?

- And the Democratic legislature.

So if you wanted to lump them in, Steve, by all means, I mean this is a Democratic legislature that's controlled the state for a very long time, that assembly is also up on the ballot.

You know, you can talk about federal issues on what Trump might or might not do, but governor's race is a referendum on the past decade of leadership.

And it's going to be all about what we can do for New Jersey residents to make their lives better and make their lives more affordable.

- 30 seconds Brendan.

- I actually agree with Jeannette.

That's gonna be a big part of the campaign, but the national platform of Donald Trump is gonna tie directly into those issues and the decisions that Trump makes will affect those issues.

But where you stand with Trump will matter.

- Jeanette, can we agree that there are state issues and what the federal government does or does not do also impacts, not only who the next governor is, but the 9 million people in the state.

Is that a fair assessment?

- You are, absolutely.

And listen, people are looking for the cost of goods and services to come down.

They're looking for gas prices to come down, which they already have been because President Trump is prioritizing energy independence.

But if the tariffs, which is not something I agree as a free market person, makes things more expensive, that will be an issue.

I agree with Brendan on that.

But also, you know, the cost of living in New Jersey, Governor Murphy just introduced a budget that raises taxes by $1.2 billion in New Jersey.

- Jeanette, I gave you the last word, and I know Brendan's got 10 seconds.

Jen, Brendan, 10 seconds more.

I gotta go.

- Listen, Jen, I'm glad the Republicans are finally on the fiscal health bandwagon.

It's taking a while to get you there, but I'm glad you've finally agreed with the Democrats have to do to clean up the messes you leave.

Have a good day, everybody.

(all speakers chuckle) (Jeanette's voice gets cut off) - Take this offline.

To Brendan and Jeanette, thank you so much.

We appreciate it.

Well done.

- Thanks for having us.

- I'm Steve Adubato.

Stay with us.

More conversation on the way.

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