- Coming up on "Austin InSight," we're catching up with Austin music legend Bob Schneider, a look at his prolific career, how he thinks the music scene has changed, and his thoughts on fame.

"Austin InSight" starts now.

- [Narrator] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin, and also from Daniel L. Skret.

(bright music) (bright music continues) - He's been an iconic fixture and artistic phenomenon in the Austin music scene for decades.

Singer songwriter Bob Schneider is the former front man of The Ugly Americans and The Scabs.

His music spans everything from folk, funk, rock, rap, reggae, bluegrass, and country.

With more than 59 Austin Music Awards, he's the most decorated artist in Austin music history.

He's also played legendary venues, including the Austin City Limits TV show twice.

♪ Well I am Batman but you can call me Bob ♪ ♪ And when I see the boy wonder ♪ ♪ I just say yo Rob, I used to ♪ - He's since started his own label, Shockorama Records, and he's still in residency after a quarter of a century at the Saxon Pub.

He's also a published author and a painter.

He's written more than 2,500 songs and still plays more than a hundred shows a year, and he's not stopping.

We previously spoke with Bob Schneider about his storied career.

And we have Bob Schneider here with us in the studio.

It's so great to have you here, Bob.

- Thanks, nice to be here.

- So let's catch up.

What are you working on these days?

You're still touring, right?

- I'm touring all the time.

I've been doing that for 25 years, continuing to kind of play the same clubs that I've been playing this entire time and still writing music, still playing at the Saxon Pub.

- Yes.

- Every Monday.

- [Laura] 25 years, right?

- [Bob] 26 years and counting, yeah, every Monday, pretty much, 50 Mondays a year, so a lot.

- It's amazing, you have been doing this for years, you have not slowed down and you're such a prolific creator, and we've read that you've written more than 2,500 songs.

To churn them out so fast, how do you do that?

What does your songwriting process usually look like?

- Well, I decided along like 20 years ago to give myself deadlines to write songs 'cause, otherwise, if you don't- - It expands to fill the void.

- Well, you can always just find something else to do besides write a song.

It's kind of you're starting from scratch every time.

Like Paul Simon, one of my favorite songwriters in the world, if he sat down right now to write a song, he's not gonna have an easier job than anybody else in the world doing that.

So you're starting from scratch, you're starting with nothing.

And so, it's kinda scary.

And, you know, so what I've done is I've just made myself a deadline every week for the last 20 years, so it makes me write at least 50 songs a year.

When I started doing it, I was doing it like every two days, I was giving myself a deadline.

So that's why I ended up with a lot of songs.

But, yeah, it's what I do and the alternative is just sitting around having feelings and that's- - We can't have that.

- That's not an option.

- No, we gotta process those and move on like right away.

- It's not even processing, I'm just avoiding them at all costs.

- [Laura] Oh, gotcha, okay.

That works too.

- Yeah, yeah.

- But what about if you get writer's block?

- Well, I do this thing where, all right, I'll tell you what gives you writer's block is, as soon as you try to start writing something great, that's when you get writer's block.

So if the critical part of your brain is in the studio with you when you're writing, it's just gonna constantly interrupt you and go, "Oh, that's stupid," or, "You've done that before," or, "Nobody's gonna want to hear this," or whatever, so you have to figure out a way to silence that voice.

- [Laura] You have set these deadlines for yourself, you continue to be so prolific, but you're also still creating art, you're doing music videos, you're touring.

What's your secret to staying so creatively inspired?

- I think the main thing that I've got going for me is an absolute zero sense of self-esteem and just a feeling that I'm absolutely unlovable.

And so, if I don't create something kind of like every day and all the time, then I will basically be despised and somehow die.

No, I went over, like, with my therapist and we kind of followed it down the rabbit hole and the feeling that I have, and it's just a feeling, obviously, is that if I don't make something that I'll be abandoned like a swaddled baby at night in the rain next to a drain, like, the drain that the "It" monster comes out of.

- Okay, I'm right there with you with this imagery.

- And then, I get swept down into the drain in the rain and die in the darkness down there.

- Wow, I'm glad you're in therapy discussing this.

That's pretty dark.

- Again, it's just a feeling.

But I can combat the feeling by writing a song or making a piece of art or writing a poem or something like that.

And then, I'm like, okay for a little bit.

- Okay, well, and you know, I feel like that's really relatable.

I know we're sort of joking, but this idea of imposter syndrome, even someone at your level that is something I think will resonate with a lot of our audience.

You can be so successful, but, you know, you still have to be working on the mental health aspect and, you know.

I know you said it was like avoiding processing feelings, but I have to think that it's sort of cathartic to be writing and in a constant state of creation, it's gotta be some sort of cathartic.

- Well, again, it's dissociative for me to write and, really, it's like solving a puzzle.

It's like the reason people sit down and do crosswords every day is the same reason I sit down and write a song.

It's just to kind of take my mind off the fact that we're hurtling through space in the middle of nowhere on this rock.

- On this floating rock.

- On this floating rock and we're all gonna die and we have no idea why we're here.

So instead of thinking about that, it's easier to like, "Oh, how can I solve this little puzzle of this song?"

- But what about, where do you get inspiration though?

Like, are you someone that you need to be in nature?

Do you need to have like no distractions, like, where do you just get inspiration?

'Cause your songs deal with all sorts of different topics, some lighter, some heavier.

- I mean, I really don't have to do anything.

I have this crazy imagination.

So a lot of people have to, like, do stuff to feel anything like that guy, that free solo guy has to like go climb the side of El Capitan.

- That's a bit extreme, yeah.

- To have a feeling, and literally all I have to do is like open my eyes in the morning and I'm on the side of that cliff on El Capitan.

I have just this crazy imagination that just does not stop.

I mean, I can get like a sideways glance from someone and, all of a sudden, I've concocted this whole story about the person and my relationship with that person.

It has nothing to do with reality, so that's going on constantly.

- And with a discography as broad as yours, you've got a lot of songs, and you previously said in interviews that not all of them are good.

What did you mean by that and what, in your opinion, makes a song good or bad?

- I mean, you kind of know if a song's good or bad when you write it, but, usually, when you write a song, it's kind of like having a baby.

When you first have a baby, you're like, oh, you think the baby's gonna like be president.

And then, I have two kids now and I love my kids and they're great, they're amazing.

Probably neither one of 'em is gonna be president.

- Well, it's a little early.

They're young, aren't they?

- No, they're not.

- Okay.

- But you think they're gonna be like Albert Einstein, you think they're gonna be like, and kind of when you're writing a song, you think, oh, this is gonna be like a song that's gonna like be the number one song in the world and they're just not ever that.

And so, you don't know that at first, you kind of are enamored with them when you write 'em and then you write another song and you're like, ah, it's not as good, or, oh, this song's better than that song.

So the good thing about writing a lot of songs, you really have some perspective on like kind of what's good and what's not so good.

And, for me, lots of times, I'll write, I really just judge my songs on the lyrics.

So if the lyrics are good, I think they're good.

But I'm sure I've written lots of songs that people would like that I am not proud of 'cause the lyrics aren't very good.

- Well, do you have a favorite song of yours?

Our news director, not to out him, he's partial to "Change Your Mind," which he calls the saddest breakup song of all time.

- Oh, I love that, that's definitely one of the best songs I've ever written, it's a beautiful song and I wrote it like when I was going through a divorce.

I think anytime you have any big things, like, when my children were born or when I was going through the divorce or when I was getting married or, like, you know, if you travel to someplace you've never been before, anytime you're having some new experience that is going to show up in the songwriting, even though I don't write autobiographically, I do write kind of emotionally autobiographically so whatever I'm feeling kind of shows up in the music, but the particulars aren't autobiographic.

So, yeah, "Changing Your Mind," I was going through a really difficult time with the divorce and then that song came out of it.

- Yeah, and I know that song has probably helped a lot of people going through something similar, whether a divorce or whether just a breakup or a bad day.

And for a little background, music is kind of in your DNA, right?

You're the son of a professional opera singer and your dad forced you to play drums in his band growing up.

At what point did you decide, I wanna do this?

Or were you like, you know, there was never any other option for me?

- No, I was never gonna do it 'cause it was what my dad did.

He's an opera singer, he also moonlighted playing guitar in country clubs and stuff like that.

And we did it as kids, me and my sister, my dad taught us how to play guitar so we would play for their friends at a party, my parents liked to party a lot and we'd have to get up in the middle of the night and go play a song for these guests.

- As kids.

- Oh yeah, like four or five, six year olds.

- Wow.

- And when you're that age.

- Cut your check.

- Yeah, well, when you're that age, when you play, you know, people like get really excited and I think that really got into my like brain that I was like really good at this because, like, when I was five, I like killed.

So even as an adult, I just think when I'm on stage, I'm like, "Oh, I'm the best."

And it's from that, from being five and playing in the living room.

- [Laura] I've also read that you've said in the early days of playing music, you were shy, which is kind of hard to believe now.

Is that true?

What happened?

- Oh no, I've always been an introvert, but, yes, for sure, when I was a kid I was extremely, extremely uncomfortable and shy and didn't know like what to do.

I'm still that way, like, I might not come across that way, but I'm definitely an introvert.

- Hmm, you know, I've heard a lot of artists say that it's kind of like a performance, it's not your natural state, but you know when to be on, clearly from a young age.

And as a performer, you have a real commitment to the show must go on.

Is it true that you once broke your arm while drumming in a set and continued to play till the end?

- Yeah, I was playing a gig at a festival and I went to throw myself kind of off stage, but we were the first band, so there was nobody in front of the stage.

So I jumped up and I thought I was just gonna, you know, it was like six feet off the stage.

I figured I'd just land on my feet.

But what happened was I was wearing these crazy shoes that had no traction on 'em, so it had started to rain, my foot went out from under me, and I was gonna fall and either hit my head or put my arm out, so I put my arm out, broke my arm.

- Oh my God.

- And then, immediately, went to the emergency tent and they kind of put it in a sling, and then I went back and finished the last two songs with the broken arm.

- Wait, so how did that work?

Were you just, like, with one arm, were you able to do anything with this arm that was like broken?

- Well, I only need one hand for the mic.

- Yeah.

- Because I wasn't playing guitar in this band.

- Oh, okay.

- I was just singing.

- Oh, gotcha, gotcha, okay.

Is that the craziest thing that's ever happened to you during a performance?

- I mean, I've been knocked out before on stage.

I was playing a show at the Black Cat on 6th Street and the guitar player, again, in this band, I wasn't doing anything except for singing so I was kind of jumping around, it was in my younger days, and the guitar player was kind of going up like this and we made contact and I got knocked out and I just fell unconscious to the floor, he thought I was acting, but I wasn't.

And then I came to maybe like a minute later and jumped up and, you know, bleeding, finished the set, it was kind of cool.

- You finished the set, after being unconscious for 60 seconds, you got up and jumped right back in.

- I mean, I'm a pro, you gotta do what you gotta do.

- That's really impressive.

- Well, I kind of got it from when I was a kid.

So you mentioned that my dad employed me as a drummer when I was a kid, and he would pay me like 10 bucks to play these gigs.

And what he would do is he would just do these massively long, like, song after song, he would never stop.

So he would play, I don't know, for like 35 minutes, just never, and I would be back there playing drums and I was just a little tiny kid at 10 and these drumsticks were as big as my arms.

And I would just get really exhausted back there to the point where I would be crying and then my dad would just like, it was like Shia LaBeouf stuff where he was just like, "Keep going."

- [Laura] Wow.

- So I just have this thing where you just never quit on stage no matter what happens, which is kind of cool, like, when you have the opportunity to like face, I cracked a rib one time in Houston playing a show and finished the show and, you know, it's kind of fun to face adversity and win.

- One way to say it, yeah.

I mean, that's dedication, again, I'm impressed.

But I want you to know, if you ever did crack a rib during a performance, I think everyone in the audience would be okay if you did, like, take a moment for yourself.

- Well, I mean, I don't do anything now, I just stand there and play guitar, I'm not cracking any ribs nowadays.

- [Laura] Maybe that's good, that's good.

Well, so when you're not cracking ribs, at least not anymore, and you're not getting knocked out during performances, what are you like off stage?

What do you like to do, your hobbies?

- I mean, I watch a lot of movies and, you know, like lately, I've been kind of gardening a little bit.

- Okay.

- But not, I mean, gardening for me is I just go buy flowers at Lowe's and put 'em in the backyard until they die and then go buy replacement flowers, so.

- No one needs to know that you didn't grow them.

How would they know?

I do the same thing.

- Nobody comes over, I have nobody coming over to the house, so nobody sees them except for my kids and my wife, so.

- [Laura] You're not an entertainer?

- No, not at all.

- Or at least not entertainer at home, you have to entertain in like the public sector.

- Well, I mean, I have a job which is to entertain people when I'm on stage.

But when I'm not on stage, I'm just really just kind of a very normal person.

I think people think that I'm the person that I'm on stage 'cause I say all kinds of ribald and crazy things on stage 'cause, like, they'll pop into my mind and I think, "Oh, this will be entertaining or funny or something," and I'll just say it.

And then, even as I'm saying it, I'm like, "Oh, that was a lot," you know?

- But you can get away with it.

- Oh yeah, I mean, of course, because, again, I mean that was the thing about, especially when I was younger and I was much more introverted, as I've gotten older, I've cared less about what people think about me, even though I still care, obviously.

But when I was younger, I just didn't have any idea of who I should be and how I should act.

But when I was on stage, I felt like a complete freedom to like, whatever I say, whatever I do is totally fine.

So that's the only time I felt really free and liberated was on stage.

- And, you know, you turned 60 in the fall, you're still going happy belated birthday by the way.

- Sweet, sweet 60.

- Yeah, you know, it's a great age, you know?

- No, it's horrible.

- It's horrible.

- No, it's the worst.

I'm telling you, it's been like a nonstop depression because you have to grieve the death of the 50-year-old you.

Because when I was in my fifties, I was just like, pretending to be 30.

And when you turn 60, there's the pretending days are kind of over.

- But isn't that liberating in a sense?

You don't have to, like, play into anything anymore.

You can just be you, no?

- No, no.

I'm telling you, the weird thing about getting older is you just feel the same, when you turn 60, you're gonna feel exactly the way you feel now, talk to anybody, I mean, I was talking to an old, I say an old lady, but this woman who's 91, and I asked her like, "How old do you feel?"

And she's like, I just feel like, I don't know, like I'm in my forties maybe."

- [Laura] Wow.

- She doesn't feel 90, like, you just don't feel your age.

You don't think you look like you look and then you catch a glimpse of yourself and you're like, "Oh my God, I can't believe I look like that."

I think I look like that guy over there, or, you know what I mean?

- Yeah.

- And I just don't.

- Well, I mean, you do, you've still got it.

- I mean, like, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's not the same.

As you get older, you kind of were like, "Eh, why care?"

But you care less, but you still care.

- And it's innately human, we all care and we would be lying if we said we didn't care.

- Yeah.

- And now you have also a family and kids and you're still touring.

How do you balance that and being gone from home?

- I just don't leave, I don't leave for very long.

Like, a long tour for me would be five days, like five days would be an extremely long tour.

Usually, I'm gone for like three days, like, this week, like, I'm going to Florida on Thursday and Friday, I'm back Saturday, so that works.

I don't need to be gone for long stretches of time anymore, so.

- Well, you've done the rounds, you've done the rounds on the national tours, national TV, and, of course, you're a legend here, but a few years ago, I wanna bring this up, you were quoted as saying that you thought you'd be, quote, bigger than you were and that you thought for sure you'd be dead at that point and that you were glad both of those things hadn't still happened.

Do you still think that way?

- Well, I had this weird thing, when I was a teenager, I thought for sure I was gonna die young, I never thought I was gonna make it to 18.

And then, when I made it to 18, I was shocked.

And then, when I made it to 21, I was shocked.

And then, like, literally, when I got to be 29, 'cause I quit drinking when I was 29, when I got to be 29, I was like, "Well, shoot, I'm still alive," like, it was weird.

- Like, you're upset that you're still alive.

- No, I wasn't upset, I was just mystified by the whole, I just had a feeling for sure I was gonna die, and then, I didn't and I was like, "Well, who knows how long am I gonna live?"

And I was not having a good time.

Like, 29 was probably the worst year of my life, the drinking for me was completely out of control, it was like all day everyday and it was not fun.

And so, that's finally when I got sober.

And I will say this, when I got sober, I went into a 12-step program and we talked about spirituality earlier and I'd kind of given all that stuff up when I was a teenager.

But then, I had to find some higher power, which I was able to do, kind of connect with in sobriety, and so, and that really turned things around for me in a big way, like, it really made my life a lot better.

- And that's beautiful.

And again, congratulations 'cause that's really hard to do.

I mean, they have the 27 Club, you know, it's almost a punchline now, the 27 Club.

- Right, yeah, yeah.

- And it's hard, you know, an artist's life, you know, you think of the lifespan of a musician's career and it can often be, you know, short.

But, you know, to go back to the earlier question about your quote about you thought you'd be bigger than you were at the time.

What about now?

Are you as famous as you want to be right now?

- I feel like I'm the least famous I could possibly be at this point.

I know that sounds like ridiculous and pompous or something, but I really do feel like that's the case.

- But like, what does the idea of making it though look like to you?

- I mean, really, I have the best career and the best life, like, all my needs are met, I don't ever have to do what we're doing now, like interviews and stuff, nobody cares.

- But, well, we care.

- Well, you guys care.

But for the most part, nobody cares and nobody's bugging me to talk to me.

So really all I'm doing is what I love to do, which is I'm playing shows, which I love to do, and I'm making new music, which I love to do and they go hand in hand.

Like, if I had to just play songs that I wrote 25 years ago, I would quit.

- Mm.

- It'd be like me serving bread that I made 20 years ago.

It'd be horrible.

So I like the idea of creating new music and then also performing that new music.

And I'll play the old stuff too 'cause it's fun and it's nostalgic and, you know, people wanna kind of relive the old days.

- You've evolved.

- Yeah.

- Over the years.

But so has the Austin music scene evolved over the years and with that inevitably comes some growing pains.

So, as you've played over these years, what's the most significant change you've noticed here?

- Here in Austin?

- Yeah.

- Well, the biggest change, of course, is just the cost of living.

When I moved here in '88, it was so cheap to live here.

I think, at one point, I was paying 100 bucks a month, all bills paid.

- You're kidding.

- Uh-uh, but yeah, it was cheap to live here.

So you didn't really have to work very much and then you could spend all your time making music, and that's obviously not the case now.

The cost of living, you have to figure something out if you wanna live here.

And so, I think what's happened with the music scene in Austin is those people that used to live in Austin or would have lived in Austin, if it was cheap, they're living in Bastrop or they're living in Manor.

- Lockhart.

- Lockhart or someplace where it still is kind of cheap to live and they can concentrate their energy on making their art, whatever it is, versus like having to work 50 hours a week or whatever.

- And it's sad too, we've heard that very sentiment from many artists and artist advocates, and we've in a sense here in Austin become a victim of our own success.

Like, part of what put Austin on the map is this local music scene, and as we've expanded and people are coming here in part because of that, we're not supporting what made us this, you know, cool place in the first place.

In your opinion, is Austin even the live music capital of the world anymore?

- No, I mean, it's never been the live music capital of the world.

That's just something somebody came, and just like Best Buy is not, you can get cheaper stuff other places, but.

- We're not the same as Best Buy though.

- No, it's the same in that, like, they just called themselves Best Buy, we just called ourselves the Live Music Capital of the World.

I think when Austin was a really small city and there was so much music here, it was kind of crazy how many clubs there were that played live music at that time.

And so, we could call ourselves that, but there have always been, I mean, Chicago and Nashville and New York and LA, I mean, there's way more places to play there than there is here.

But here's the thing, over the years, I mean, all the clubs that I've played over the years, most of them have closed, there's maybe two of them that are still open.

And so, again, it's hard to make ends meet when you're running a club.

And the other thing too is like, there's so much to do, but like, in '88, there wasn't anything to do.

So you were just like, "Well, let's just go out and see what's happening."

But now nobody goes out unless everything's been vetted, you know, they know exactly who they're going to see, what they're going to see.

The days of just like going out and like, "Oh, there's a band playing here that I've never heard of, let's go check it out," that's never- - It doesn't happen anymore.

- I don't think so, do you ever do that?

- I have done that before, but I'm in a season of challenging myself to get out, get out the house, get off my phone.

- Yeah.

- And just to go see some band that I've never heard of perform at like the Elephant Room or something.

- There you go.

- Yeah.

But I don't know, I'll have to poll my friends because they haven't always been as on board with that.

But, you know, we're trying, I'm gonna lead the resurgence.

You heard it here, I'm gonna try to help bring back a love of like going out and frolicking and jaunting and seeing live bands that you've never heard of.

And to say that you've done a lot in your career is an understatement.

At this point, is there anything else you're hoping to accomplish?

- I mean, not really.

I just, (laughs).

- I mean, fair, fair.

- I've kind of given up my big, you know, like, I always thought like I would be like in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at some point, like, I really did think I was going to be like Bruce Springsteen and that just never panned out.

And even now, I mean, I'm not even in the Austin Chronicle Music Hall of Fame, which is crazy.

- Well, you're the most decorated artist in Austin music history.

- Yeah.

- Which I find I, it will come, it will come.

Maybe after this interview it will come.

- Maybe, that would be great, I would love it.

- When all is said and done, what do you hope people remember about your work and career?

- I hope people will think, you know, I hope people will see the amount of care and effort that I've put into what I do.

Like, I really have spent a lot of time and effort trying to make stuff that is interesting.

And, you know, there's a lot of stuff that I've made that I'm really proud of and I hope people will, you know, see that, I guess, you know, and appreciate that.

- I think they do now.

You write more in a year than what most artists write in a lifetime and that's really special, and I know you're not stopping anytime soon.

Well, Bob Schneider, Austin music legend, thank you so much for sharing your story and for speaking with us.

- Thanks.

(bright music) - Definitely one of the more memorable and fun interviews we've had so far on "Austin InSight."

And that's our show.

You can catch up on all of our stories on the Austin PBS YouTube channel and you can find full episodes of "Austin InSight" in the PBS app anytime for free.

Thanks again for watching.

We'll see you next time.

♪ If I yell it out, if I spell it out ♪ ♪ Will you hear me when I tell you about ♪ ♪ What I have to say before it gets too late ♪ ♪ It's not as easy as they said it'd be ♪ ♪ But there's something right about you and me ♪ ♪ Something right about you and me ♪ ♪ You're the color of a burning brook ♪ ♪ You're the color of a sideways look ♪ ♪ From an undercover cop in a comic book ♪ ♪ You're the color of a storm in June ♪ ♪ You're the color of the moon ♪ ♪ You're the color of the night, that's right ♪ ♪ The color of a fight, you move me ♪ ♪ You're the color of the colored part ♪ ♪ Of the Wizard of Oz movie ♪ ♪ We're like Romeo and Juliet ♪ ♪ We're like 40 dogs and cigarettes ♪ ♪ We're like good times that haven't happened yet ♪ ♪ But will ♪ - [Narrator] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin and also from Daniel L. Skret.

(joyful music)