- This Grammy winning songwriter and producer has been called the architect of the Memphis sound.

And his influence has only grown over the years, especially here in his hometown where he has done so much to create resources and opportunity for future generations of musical talent.

"The Soul Man: Life of Songwriter David Porter" is his new memoir.

I'm Tracy Bethea and this is A Conversation with David Porter.

[upbeat funk music] I am sitting in front of royalty today.

The Soul Man, David Porter.

Thanks so much for joining me.

- Tracy, it's my honor.

- Listen, this memoir.

Twenty-eight chapters.

I want to start at the beginning.

Chapter one, Amid the Rubble.

Young man, young boy, growing up poor.

South Memphis.

Where did you gravitate through the rubble for the love of music?

- Well, the experience that I made as an introduction for the book just dealt with a part of that experience that was not so pleasant.

But the beginning of the lifestyle for me and the progress for that began on a dead end street in Memphis, Tennessee at an intersection of E.H.

Crump Boulevard and Third Street.

And it grew from that passion from a kid in the church loving the church, singing in the little choir.

Seven and eight years old I was singing.

And it started there and just developed into this passion for music all throughout my life.

- And then I read that in school, high school, grade school, I guess it wasn't about going outside playing basketball, it was about singing and starting groups and talent shows.

How did that come about?

- Well, you know, really I used to walk to school and just be singing to songs that I would hear on the radio and evolved into listening to a radio station, WDIA in 1947, '48 when they were just beginning a thrust of credibility around black recording artists.

And so just imagining my mind imagining what that was like and what that could be for them.

And then I would sing their songs and make up words to some of what they were doing and it just evolved into the creative instinct.

- And so who were some of those artists that you were listening to on WDIA?

- Oh wow, so many of them, Tracy.

But they were foundational ones like Muddy Waters and Howlin' Wolf and Chuck Berry and Little Richard.

And they even had the doo-wop groups.

The Coasters and The Moonglows and so many... Fats Domino I was a huge fan of and such a huge fan of what was going on in the rhythmic way of New Orleans music as well.

- And what made you think that you could... And I guess you weren't thinking, it's just something that happened, you and Booker T and then Maurice White- - Well, on the street that I was born, Virginia Street, at that intersection I mentioned, four doors up from me, across from me, was a young man by the name of... I called him Sandy.

He had a nickname of Sandy.

And later he became known as Maurice White, the creator of Earth, Wind & Fire.

He was my best friend.

We were together singing at that church, at Rose Hill Baptist Church and we went all through grammar school and high school together.

And my next door neighbor was the Cunningham family.

Kelly and Leanna Cunningham, we sang together along with Maurice.

And the drummer who was in that family, his name was Carl Cunningham.

He eventually ended up being the original drummer for Otis Redding.

He perished in the airplane crash.

But all of that was on that street.

And music was something that you just develop an instinct for, certainly when the people in the churches were... We thought were applauding us and getting into us because of how good we were.

We didn't realize they were worshiping.

[Tracy and David laugh] But it just developed and evolved into a passion of thinking it was something that we could do.

- And so when you found that passion for music and singing that aled to STAX, which was... Was it in the neighborhood then?

Had it already started?

Because again, you were listening to WDIA, which played African American music.

- Correct.

- Which, let me just say, is where I got my start.

Can you believe it, at 19?

- Wow, yeah.

A lot of us.

- But how did... How did you reach STAX?

How did that come?

- Well, in high school, I was still in high school and I had a job working at a grocery store that ended up being on McLemore Street, which was right across from this building that I though was a movie theater, but it was evolving into something else.

And I would walk over there just to see what that was and ended up being my view of a man with a hammer and nails working inside of something that was going to be a recording studio.

And I just was inquisitive and I asked him about it and he said, "Well, we're a country label.

We're going to be Satellite Records."

And that was what I saw initially.

And the thing that gave me more passion about going over there even more so was there was a record store that was connected to that, Satellite Record Shop.

And I have to give credit to a lady by the name of Estelle Axton, Mrs.

Estelle Axton, for really being the conduit that enabled me to want to have the passion to keep going over because she was playing records that were fascinating to me.

I couldn't afford them.

But just listen to all of the artists as people would come in to buy a record or listen to records.

And I just found that in my downtime from the grocery store, I would go over there and just listen to music and eventually asking her would she consider giving me an audition.

So she said she talked to her brother about that.

- An audition to sing?

- An audition to sing because- - How old were you?

- I was 16 and 17 years old when I first started working at that grocery store.

But by that time, I was 17 years old.

And about to turn 18 as a matter of fact.

And that carried on for a while until she finally convinced Jim to take a listen to me.

And he gave me an audition.

And this was... He was doing country and he was not interested in doing the kind of music that I was a part of.

But she convinced him to give it a chance.

And with that came the opportunity for me to do the audition.

I brought in a couple musician friends of mine, Booker T. Jones, who later became Booker T.

& the M.G.'s.

William Bell, who later became a recording artist of his own, sang background on my demo.

And Andrew Love, who was a sax player, who eventually became the Memphis Horns and convinced him to give me that chance.

And I flunked the audition.

But I made an interest of meaningful talent that I would bring in to convince them to look at black music seriously.

- And so this is all while they were playing country music.

And although you didn't get it for singing, you were cultivating the art of producing.

- Well, they got impressed with the fact that I seemed to know quite a few people that had these musical instincts.

And even more so, when they got ready to give it a chance, they were looking at recording Rufus and Carla Thomas.

And Jim Stewart at the time, he didn't really know the community or the session players or people to use, and so I helped him with that.

I went to Booker T. Washington High School and I got Booker T. Jones to come over and play baritone horn on a record by Rufus and Carla called "'Cause I Love You" And that was just an example of before I became a staff songwriter or anything like that, just trying to get into that environment in a meaningful, powerful way.

I was able to bring them talents that could make a difference and eventually make a difference in what music was around the world.

- That's a point to young people.

Sometimes you can't walk through the door and expect to get a check.

- It's a means to an end.

If you're passionate about something, yes, it is.

And that was it.

I didn't know anything about a check.

I only knew that I had a passion for wanting to do this and if I wanted to do this, I had to look for an opportunity to have a chance to do it.

- So before the Jimmy Jams and Terry Lewis, the Kenny Gambles and Leon Huff, there was David Porter and Isaac Hayes.

How did that relationship come together?

- Well, I became the first staff... African-American staff person at STAX Record.

They changed the name from Satellite to STAX and I became it's first staff writer.

And with that, I started bringing additional talents in to be either signed as writers or get involved in the creative process.

And because I'd met Isaac in high school, he sang at a rival high school with his vocal group called The Teen Tones.

And I had a vocal rival group at Booker T. Washington called The Marquees.

And we would compete on Wednesday nights on Beale Street at the Palace Theatre trying to win $3.

[David laughs] - And how old were you with these clubs?

- Well, this was a movie theater that had talent shows that were citywide.

That was during the time where it was motivational and inspirational for people to be motivated by a community based on whatever talents they had and the talents we were focused on in music and on Beale Street on Wednesday they would let kids come to a talent show to try to win $3 for first place.

- So who would win between you and David?

Whose group would win the most?

- Well, it would sound like I'm bragging, but Booker T. Washington was a very, very talented high school.

If it were not us, it was someone from that high school.

We were just extremely talented.

But it was my introduction to meeting Isaac.

And as I got in closer with STAX, I approached him about let's form a writing team.

And he considered that and we said, "Well, we both have aspiration to do this, so let's do it."

So we developed a concept and a means to do it that ended up being an identity for what we were doing.

And that was the beginning of it all.

- Some of your biggest songs that you and Isaac wrote, what would you consider one or one of your favorite songs?

- Well, "Hold on, I'm Comin'" would have to be one of my favorites.

Certainly "Soul Man", I mean, the book is "Soul Man".

- "Soul Man", absolutely.

- But so many of them because we were so fortunate to create music that we thought would only be played on WDIA, stations of that ilk.

But we wanted to be sure that we were doing something that wouldn't make us obviously trying to compete with Motown because at that time no one could do that.

So we had to develop an idea and an approach that was uniquely us.

And so that was the beginning of us finding ourselves and finding a way to build credibility for a label.

- And what do you think that it was for STAX that you found your niche, I guess, to be compared or at the same level of a Motown?

- Well, Motown was amazingly impactful with the melodic way of their songs.

And they had a great emphasis around what we call a straight four beat.

That's just straight four with no heavy emphasis on the bass and drums and guitars and signatures.

So we saw that as an opportunity because the church had inspired Isaac and I. So the rhythmic way we saw for us was to do it what we call on the low end, the bass, drums, guitars, horns as an emphasis and the meat of the message because we were of the opinion that we wanted to be sure our songs were motivational for people.

- Wow, and definitely they are motivating.

In the book in... I think it was one of the chapters you talked about the awareness of your music, because during... When you think about segregation, you think about during times where social consciousness, you all gave us music, of course, that still plays today, that made us think, self-pride.

How do you just sit down and come up with songs like that?

- Well, part of that was... Well, all of it was intentional because we knew that the spirituality of the church was something that was powerfully impactful on us.

And we felt that to be sure that we created a meaningful intent in the creative process of writing a song was just as important for the kind of music that we were doing.

Certainly we were not a church talking about love between guy and girl, but we were intentional about being sure that we made it relatable in a heartfelt way with every song.

And we wanted to have meanings that not only could be adapted to the love relationships, but to the meaning of what the times we were living in and how it could connect in an emotional way with the people that we though would be our audience that would be something that would draw them into having more self-pride, more determination to keep going 'til they excel, all of those kind of qualities.

So there were double meanings inside of all of the songs, but the intent was to be sure that we bought it from the heart and really strongly from the heart in a spiritual way if we were fortunate enough.

- Talk about some of the groups that you and Isaac, you created these names that are still being played today.

You got from The Rance Allen Group to The Emotions and just talk about some of the groups and some of the songs.

I want to hear a story.

A good story about a song creation because after you write the song, do you decide which artist it best fits?

You know, I remember one in particular, my mom would sing, If Something Is Wrong with- - "When Something is Wrong With My Baby".

- Yeah, so how do you decide who sings what?

Otis Redding- - Well, part of development of STAX Records was grounded in the fact that we were developing a label with new and fresh talent.

And then there was a relationship somewhat that Jim Stewart had with Atlantic Records and they brought a couple of talents down for us to work with.

One of those talents were two guys that they were called Sam and Dave.

And so they had no hit records or anything of that nature.

So they were assigned to Isaac and I to write and produce.

I did the first record on them, which was marginal success, but not really substantial.

Then Isaac and I connected and got together on what we intended to do as a creative approach for us.

And we wrote a song called "Hold On, I'm Comin'".

Which changed our world and certainly theirs as well.

And that was a bathroom song.

I was in a- - What's a bathroom song?

- I was... We would go... Isaac and I, before we would write sometimes, we would go to the clubs just to jam.

He and I... Because we were not popular as artists or anything of that nature.

We were writers and producers and we would jam and just do that.

And then we'd come back to the studio to write.

On this particular night, about one o'clock in the morning STAX Studios was a converted movie theater.

And I went into the restroom, which also was a door inside of the studio that we also used as an echo chamber.

And Isaac rushed me even before I got in there because it was late.

And he said, "Man, hurry up."

And I said, "Hold on, man.

I'm coming."

And I walked out of the studio and I said, "Isaac, we have one.

I got one."

He says, "What?"

I said, "Hold on, I'm comin'."

He said, "What are you talking about?"

And I talked about a rescue song.

He said, "Well, you know, it's a rescue song?"

So he had a horn, what we call a horn riff, which is 16 bars of horn part.

And he had that on tape that he had put down a couple weeks before and he played that for me and then went back to the piano and we wrote the song in about 20 minutes.

It came out of that motivation.

And Sam and Dave were amazing in their performance of it and it certainly changed our world.

- So at this point, had the music that you were writing, particularly, I guess "Hold On" would be one of those, shifted to not just African-American or black radio, but it was being placed across all forms, all radio stations, Billboard, everywhere, Billboard Charts.

- It was amazing with the success.

I started with a song called, "You Don't Know Like I Know", which was the beginning of it.

But that created an awareness in the general market way of everybody about Sam and Dave, but that was so rooted in the church kind of vibe 'til it wasn't played on pop radio.

But by the time we did "Hold on, I'm Comin'", "Hold on, I'm Comin'", the message, the feel, and the instinct of what it could do in an emotional way to people just resonated all over the world.

And that was the beginning of a whole thrust around the credibility of what we were doing at STAX in what we call a general market way.

Everybody could relate to it.

But we stayed grounded in our approach to the creative process.

We didn't let that change how we would go about it, but we were so excited about the general public acceptance of what we were doing.

But we were very much aware of where it started and where its foundation was.

- Wow.

So I know Maurice White, you all grew up together and Earth, Wind & Fire, which we still play today, but that was not the actual name of the group at first.

- No, but I would say this.

Maurice left Memphis when we... We graduated from high school together.

Matter of fact, Maurice was born one month after I was born.

He was born December 19.

I was born November 21st, we're the same age.

- Wow.

- And so... But he performed, moved to Chicago, started playing recording sessions up there, drums.

He was an excellent drummer.

And then he started playing with a group called Ramsey Lewis Trio.

He replaced their drummer.

And so at that time, Isaac and I were very, very famous across the country as writers and producers.

And Maurice told me, he said, "I've got a idea, man, I'm going to do.

I want to tell you about it."

'Cause we were successful.

And he said, "I'm going to be playing in Los Angeles.

And you say you're coming out to Los Angeles?"

I said, "Yeah."

He said, "Well, Ramsey and I, "we playing at the Hong Kong Bar "at the Century Plaza Hotel.

"And while you're out there, why don't you stop by and we can talk?"

I went there because I was going to Los Angeles.

I stayed at the Continental Hyde House.

That night I went to the Hong Kong Bar at the Century Plaza Hotel.

The next day we walked on the street and Maurice told me, I was the first person he ran the name down, in his book, he talks about that.

He ran the name down and the concept of what he wanted to do, Earth, Wind & Fire.

- Wow.

Chapter 20.

What a name, Back in the Game.

Tell me a little bit about that chapter.

- Well, you know, I had gotten so disillusioned with everything because of what had happened to STAX.

STAX was forced into involuntary bankruptcy and all of that.

And it was so harmful emotionally to me and to everybody that was associated.

I didn't particularly want to do anything else.

And it was Maurice that told me, "David, you should be writing and producing and you should not let yourself back up from that."

And he said, "Why don't you write a song for Earth, Wind & Fire?"

And I though he was crazy.

I said, "Maurice, you want to... "You guys are huge, "one of the greatest groups in the world.

You don't need a song from me."

So his intent was to get me back started.

So he and I wrote a song called "Moonwalk" and it's on the "Electric Universe" album.

And that got me back into it.

And I started after that producing Lou Rawls and several other artists after that.

- How many-- - That was back in the game.

- Wow, back in the game.

- Yeah.

- How many artists can you recall or name that you did before the collapse of STAX Records that were birthed out of your producing and songwriting?

- Well, I won't say birth because these were extremely talented artists.

I would say that I had the pleasure working with them.

Albert King, Johnny Taylor, Carla Thomas, The Emotions.

I mean, The Soul Children.

You know, the list is so, so long.

Jeanne & the Darlings.

- Rance Allen.

- Rance Allen was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had.

My favorite song of all time is a song called "Just Found Me" on the "Soulful Experience" album of Rance Allen.

I had the pleasure of producing that album.

So many great, great talents.

- Wow, and so now you are at the point of your life, David, you have cemented your creative work throughout the world.

Is there anybody that you would have liked to have written for?

- Well, there are quite a few, but I've been so fortunate to get what they call samples.

People sampling my music.

- Right, oh yeah.

That was my next question.

- And putting it onto... This is the foundation of a record, put they're spin on top of that.

And so I would've loved to have written a song for Mariah Carey, and little did I know I would get the chance because she wanted to sample a song that I did on The Emotions called "Blind Alley".

And so the foundation for "Dreamlover" is grounded in a song that I wrote called "Blind Alley".

And I'm the third writer of "Dreamlover".

"Rump Shaker", now that's a funny name, but Wreckx-N-Effect by Teddy Riley's group.

Will Smith's "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It".

So many of them, the artists that I had thoughts about maybe working with as time went on.

- So I think over 700 of your songs have been sampled.

- Just right in the ballpark of that.

It's unbelievable.

But just having the experience of... Aretha Franklin, you know, had a Grammy win on one of my songs.

So just the thrill of so many of them.

Patty LaBelle sang one of my songs.

It's just a great, great thrill for me to have been around long enough and impactful enough for people to think enough of the works that I've done, that Isaac and I have done to want to do that.

- And so you still continue because now you're passing it on.

And you talk about this in your memoir, The Consortium, the work, your passion for our young people today.

- Well, I started a nonprofit 14 years ago called The Consortium MMT.

And what I wanted to do was encourage some of the... You know, friends of mine if they would allow me to record videos of them talking about their processes for songwriting or producing or recording artists.

And I've got Stevie Wonder, Eric Benet, Valerie Simpson, Jimmy Jam, Steve Jordan, who's now the drummer of The Rolling Stones.

Some of everybody, imagine a Paul Schaffer who was a music director for David Letterman.

Some of everybody, I have 130-plus videos all talking about their creative steps toward their success and we pass that free to the folk that apply for the program.

And they go through a six-week program of that.

And I'm so proud of that to be able to do something free for the community that gave so much to me as a beginning for my life.

- Wow, that's amazing.

One last question, David.

What do you want your legacy or how do you see your legacy to be?

- Well, I wanted really to make a meaningful difference in what I was doing.

Not just writing a song to have a hit record, but writing something that could resonate in meaningful, inspirational ways to people.

And during the course of my career, I've had people come to me who've had serious conditions that they were dealing with and have voiced to me that the songs were very impactful in their life.

And there's no greater thrill for me than that.

And then to be able to just pass a meaning and a message on, hopefully inside of the book that I've written about you can start from where you start, but it doesn't have to be where you end.

And so be optimistic, but also be passionate about what your passions are and work toward those.

And I want that legacy to be the never give up.

You can make it if you try as the old song goes.

But also love what you do and do what you love.

- Oh, and it just exudes from you.

You love what you do and we love what you do.

- Thank you.

- Thank you so much for sharing with me on today.

This memoir is... You see I dressed because I just love the color.

The "Soul Man: Life of a Songwriter David Porter."

That's you.

- That's me.

- And the book is available- - Amazon and everywhere.

- Wow, and it is definitely a must add to your... Well, I was going to say music.

It's full of music and pictures.

It's amazing.

It's a must add to your book collection.

Thank you, David.

- My pleasure, Tracy.

- I'm Tracy Bethea and this is my conversation with the David Porter.

[upbeat funk music] [acoustic guitar chords]