- Charles "Lil Buck" Riley is a world renowned dancer and performer, a star of the international art scene.

He's performed with Yo-Yo Ma, Madonna, and Baryshnikov, but his story begins right here in Memphis, Tennessee.

I'm Pat Mitchell Worley, and this is a Conversation with Lil Buck.

[upbeat music] Your story of dance starts right here in Memphis.

What was that moment for you where you went, "Huh, I'm the best me when I dance"?

- Ah, that moment I believe for me was when, I believe it was when I was around the age of maybe sixteen years old.

- Mm hm.

- I started jookin and you know, just for fun, you know, I started doing this dance style Memphis jookin, which is an original dance style out of the city of Memphis, Tennessee.

Started doing that with my older sister, and we just did it, you know, just because it was something that kept us happy, and something that we thought that was just amazing - Yeah.

- That came outta the city.

And so I did it for fun and I found myself just obsessed with it.

And then I was just praying and practice to get as good as I wanted, to get as good as I could.

And I think it was about when I was like 16, I started getting a little better.

I started getting much better at it, and I started being, I started to realize that it was doing more for me.

You know, I didn't have a lot of confidence growing up because I, you know, I grew up and my mom, she's just such a hard worker, and, you know, she was raising us as a single parent for a long time, and, you know, so I didn't have a lot of, you know, I didn't have a lot of influence in my life that was- - Yeah, and the interactions that - You know, interactions that- - like build you up.

- Yeah, exactly.

So yeah, that, I mean, that's just something that gave me confidence.

It helped me find who I was.

And I think when I was 16 years old, I started to realize like, okay, this is me.

This, you know, this is me.

- Yeah, I get this.

- This is like, I'm in this, I am a dancer.

Like, I realized that I am a dancer and this is something that I wanted to do, and this is, and that's something that I believe was the best version of me when I saw myself moving.

It was, I didn't get, you know, that was the most joy I got out of, you know, life in that point in time was just, you know, being able to dance and enjoy it and seeing myself grow, you know.

- Yeah.

- And, you know, find out who I really am and find myself through movement.

It was at the age of 16.

- And so when did your sister tell you, "Oh, you need to do this for real"?

[laughs] - Well, I think it was more of a thing that I found inside.

You know, it was more of me telling myself that this is something that I wanted to do for real.

My sister was just good.

She was just naturally a great dancer.

She was a majorette out here and, you know, the captain of her team.

So I used to go to her jamborees and watch her dance all the time, and she was just a big influence on my life when it came to, you know, just me wanting to, you know, keep that alive and have fun with it.

But, you know, she also loves sneakers and she loves shoes.

So she ended up, you know, I mean, she eventually ended up, you know, being a manager of like different Foot Lockers and out here in Memphis, Tennessee, because that's just something she was passionate about.

But I think I just kept it going on my own.

- Yeah.

- Just because I felt like that, you know, that was my calling.

You know, like I said, when I was 16, I was like, this is something that I think I really wanna do.

I knew I wanted to do that at a young age because, you know, I used to draw people.

I was a artist and I had some, I had a few other talents, but when I started dancing then, you know, it just took over everything.

And then, you know, yeah, by that age I was just like, yeah, this is something I wanna do.

I need to keep going.

And I think it was actually when I saw videos of other jookers.

- Yeah.

- In the city, because I lived, you know, I grew up in south Memphis, then my family moved to Westwood, and out there in Westwood, it's, you don't get a lot of jookers.

It's some really good jookers out there, but you don't get a lot, as much as you would see in south Memphis or north Memphis, you know, in east Memphis.

And, but so I was out there and I was doing a lot of training on my own, but when I saw these, like I got this DVD I got a hold of with like, a lot of jookers on there that was just getting down.

When I finally saw that, I was just like, you know, blown away because I've never seen it at that high of a level.

And then I was just,-- - Yeah.

- That's when I was like, "Ooh, I wanna do this."

I want to get as good as those guys, you know?

So like a lot of my mentors that are people that are mentors in my life now, and muses for me now as far as, you know, movement goes, they were those guys that, you know, inspired me to just keep it going when I saw them, because they were doing it at such a high level.

I just felt like I had a lot of catching up to do, so.

- So you say you speak to a high level, and you know, when I first saw you, you had just joined the New Ballet Ensemble.

- New Ballet, yep.

- And you were part of that team there.

And I remember the first time I was just like, this is just me with my mouth open.

[both laughing] Like, oh my goodness.

The fluidity of the movements were just so mesmerizing.

And it doesn't matter the age of, you know, the person who's watching, the reaction is the same.

But for you, it was also about picking up some new skills as far as dance is concerned, that it didn't just end with, okay, I enjoy jookin, but what else can I do?

- Absolutely, yeah.

- So, you know, talk a little bit about that, about it being more than just, you know, this one style of things and how you were able to incorporate that into creating your own style.

- Absolutely.

Well, I was just, you know, I was young and I had a, you know, I had such a strong passion for jookin and for dance in general, because like I said, I grew up just dancing with my sister before I even knew how to jook or before I even knew what it was.

- I grew up just dancing with my sister, and we used to watch Michael Jackson.

We, I think we had this Michael Jackson VHS tape of like one of his tours or something.

And we'd watched that religiously just, and learned the choreography that he did on his tours just from watching it so many times, you know?

So like, I was just in love with dance in general, and that was my first, you know, inspiration, just watching Michael Jackson.

And wanting to be at that high level of dance that he was.

And I knew he did like so many different things, you know?

And that was a big inspiration for me.

But then when I came, you know, when I started seeing Memphis jookin in the, you know, in the city, then I was just like, "Wow, these guys are gliding just as good as Michael Jackson in my backyard."

So like, that's when I [Pat laughs] really took it on.

And, but I still had that passion to be a great dancer in general, you know, the better I got at Memphis jookin, the more I wanted to challenge myself.

Because I found that I fell in love with challenging myself.

You know, I fell in love with that process of like learning new things, and teaching myself new things, and just evolving.

So I grew that passion to wanting to be one of the best dancers in the city, you know?

[laughs] I was like, "I'm gonna be one of the best dancers in Memphis, period."

So how do I do that?

I gotta just learn as much, as many dance styles as I can, you know?

And that's where my mentality was at that time.

But I also was a big fan of Bruce Lee at a very young age.

- Yes.

- And Bruce Lee is somebody who, you know, I used to watch all his kung fu movies and all that stuff, but he also had these philosophies on just, you know, not conforming to one style and style being a crystallization for him.

And you know, him actually, you know, having a foundation, but learning different styles, you know, that, you know, that help him become a better, you know, martial artist in general.

Not just in one form, but in many.

- Right.

- So like, that inspired me to just, you know, I was like, Bruce Lee is one of the greatest, you know, martial artists of all time.

Like, maybe I can adapt some of his philosophies into, you know, my approach to dance.

And so that's when I started, you know, I was like, "Okay, I just gotta be open, you know, I gotta be a river and I just gotta be free to flow with whatever dance styles that, you know, attract me."

And that was one of 'em, because in the ballet, I saw dancers on their toes and spinning around, and I know we get up on our toes, you know, from time to time in Memphis jookin.

So I was like, wow, I wonder if I can master that.

I wonder if I can learn how to do that, you know, and find out the mechanics to like how they can hold, how they have that strength, and how they activate their strength and all that.

I was asking myself these questions at a young age.

So that's when I, you know, li ke I said, I opened myself up to learning different styles of dance, and I became a company member with New Ballet Ensemble.

But even before New Ballet, I was a part of a dance company ca lled Subculture Royalty with, you know, Ms. Terran Cooke.

And she, and I learned a lot in that company, you know, that's why I learned how to do choreography and learned from other people, and learn, you know, how to learn great movement from other people, you know, at a high level.

And Terran introduced us to, you know, jazz, and all these other different styles of dance.

And that's how I was actually introduced to New Ballet Ensemble through Terran.

And through New Ballet, I learned like Martha Graham, and Twyla Tharp and all these other different dance styles, and contemporary dances that I never knew existed.

And that's when my, you know, my mind- - Brain exploded.

[laughs] - Yeah.

my mind just, you know, it just became a whole new world for me of discovery, right?

I was like, "Okay, wow, how can, like, "I love this outta Martha Graham, "I love this out of Twyla Tharp.

"I love this out of, you know, jazz.

I love this out of ballet."

Like, and that's when my hunger to just learn how to, you know, dance and learn as much as possible.

You know, it started there.

- So we've talked a little bit about the art itself, and I'm curious for the, and for people who are just like, "Okay, so what's this guy done?"

"Cause they maybe they've never seen you, but they don't know they've seen you is probably a better.

[laughs] - That might be what it is.

- 'Cause if they watch TV, there have been, you went from, you know, performing "The Dying Swan", which everybody was just so mesmerized with, and that like, sort of caught on fire and created this viral piece that took you all over the world.

First of all, let's go there.

- Yes.

- Did you think when, well we'll talk a little bit about "The Dying Swan", just, you know, sort of give, what was the idea behind it?

What was the- - Well, the idea came from Katie Smythe actually, you know, from New Ballet Ensemble.

She's the Artistic Director there.

And it came from just her seeing me being able to dance to different types of music, you know, and within my dance style, you know, and, you know, because Memphis jookin is just such a versatile thing.

That's something we used to play with all the time before I even got to New Ballet it was just like, dancing to rock and roll or dancing to different, you know, just for the fun of it, just for laughs, right?

But we would, you know, do it at an incredible level at the same time, you know, even though we were playing with it.

So like, I did that a lot in New Ballet, and I think Katie, you know, she found out and she saw that, you know, I can just, I'm not just, you know, it's not just me dancing to the other music, but I knew how to adapt and fl ow to the rhythm and cadence, and emotion of the music is giving.

- Yeah.

- And so when I dance to classical music, it actually, she saw a difference in my dance style.

She saw that it wasn't as, you know, as hard or syncopated, and, or, you know, as when I danced to Memphis jookin music, which is like, you know, it has those beats.

- Yeah.

- It has those different drums.

And, you know, she saw that I, my body was able to slow down and flow and be graceful, but still keep that same, - I, that's what I love - Style of movement that I have.

- Is the contrast you know.

[Pat laughs] - Yeah, exactly.

So I think we were, so, I was a company member with New Ballet, we were going to, I think we were going somewhere to a school in West Memphis, Arkansas, I believe, to do this outreach, because New Ballet used to always do these outreach, you know, had this outreach program where we were going to different schools and doing performances for kids and just inspiring them to get into dance.

And that's when she asked me on the way there, we're in the car, and she just like, "Lil Buck, you think you can do something to this?"

And then she played "The Dying Swan.

And I was just like, "Yeah, that's, I like the flow of it.

"I like how, you know, I like the rhythm, I can hear the story in it."

So I just, that was my first, that was my actual first time performing The Swan is at a outreach program with New Ballet.

And then that video, it got recorded from that moment.

Damian Woetzel, who's the principal of Julliard right now, in New York, he ends up seeing that footage, him and his wife, Heather Watts, and they were working with Yo-Yo Ma at the time because Yo-Yo Ma was on the committee of Arts and Humanities that they had.

And if you fast forward, I moved to LA after that.

They ended up reaching out at that time when they saw the video to Katie, and Katie got them a hold of me.

And then I ended up meeting Damian and he introduced me to Yo-Yo Ma, who actually had a concert at the Walt Disney Hall in LA at the time.

So it was perfect timing.

I was living out there.

Yo-Yo Ma was out there doing a concert, and Damian, he wanted to make this connection.

So that's, so he made that connection between me and Yo-Yo, and that's how it happened.

I met Yo-Yo and, you know, he was just one of the most warm hearted people I've ever met in my life.

And we ended up, yeah, we en ded up doing that performance of "The Dying Swan", and it just- - Blew up.

- The rest is history.

It just blew up, yeah.

- So from there, TV commercials, I mean, it is, I have to say that I know that there are a lot of Memphians, that first time seeing you on a commercial was just like, "Yes!"

You know, it felt so good as a Memphian to see you and to know that you had been, you know, you started out just dancing at home, dancing on the streets, dancing in schools, and now here you are and the world is watching you, you know?

Did you think that in this process, and I'm like asking you to, you know, look back on, you know, 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing, but did you think that you would be able to take everything that you were learning and turn it into this global piece?

Because you have it, you know, a lot of dancers have boundaries on what they can do, and you have shown through your work that there are no boundaries.

You know, that there isn't, there isn't a sense of, no, this is this kind of music, or no, this can be used in this way, or this inspires this person.

You sort of, you know, push those boundaries outta the way.

So for you, what's happening in your mind as all of this is happening, you know, to you you're actively engaged in it, but what are you thinking?

[laughs] - I mean, it was a big part of my dream.

You know, I had a dream of like really putting this dance style on the map with Memphis jookin, but also like pursuing a career with what I love, because this was something I was so passionate about that I knew I wouldn't be passionate about anything else as much as I am about this.

- Yes.

- So, if I was to have a career in dance or something that I made a living from, it would be from this.

And I was just, you know, I was just hardheaded, you know, I moved to LA I was like, "I'm gonna go to LA no matter what happens."

Because I've, you know, I've struggled in life a lot.

You know, I come from, you know, a family of very little means.

You know, I grew up poor, you know?

And so I know how it feels to struggle, but still survive, and still have happiness within that, you know, because I've had that with my family.

I've had that with my sister, and I've known, and I learned how to find joy in just dancing every day.

You know, that's what kept me happy and going throughout my whole life when I had these struggles growing up.

So, I knew that, you know, making that move, and making that happen for me, you know, I was willing to do that.

And I was willing to put up with the struggles because it was hard.

I'm not gonna say it was easy.

It was very hard to make those things happen for me as far as like, you know, booking commercials and all this other stuff and really putting myself out there.

But I knew that that was something that I wanted to, I knew I had so much belief in this dance, and nobody was really taking that risk.

And so, and I felt like, you know, at least for my generation, and I felt like somebody had to take that risk, and I just did it.

And you know, like I said, I put a lot of work into it.

It was a lot of like, it was a lot of grit and grind.

[laughs] - Yeah.

- Outside of Memphis.

But I made it happen.

And you know, and to be able to have this moment where I could just look back and see all the things that I've, you know, been able to do, - What you've done, yeah.

- And accomplish, it's just like, I don't know, it's a feeling that I can't describe, you know?

- So, let me ask this.

Of everything that you've done, what has been the thing that you were just like, "This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do?"

And what helped you as far as pushing through?

- Yeah, for me, that thing, I think that thing would be keeping that mental drive to not give up, you know, while I was out there in LA.

Because when I made that move, I was like 20 years old, not even 21 yet.

I was 20 years old going on 21.

And I made that move to pursue my dance career just because I felt like, I felt personally like I hit a ceiling in Memphis, and the opportunity for dance out here at the level that I know that, that I aspire, you know, to have and to, and I, and that I wish Memphis would have, and that I wanted Memphis to have, it just wasn't there yet.

So that's why I made that move to LA.

And, but yeah, I think the hardest thing was keeping that, keeping that mentality alive inside, even through all the struggles, because it was hard.

I moved out there, my mom gave me like a hundred bucks, you know what I'm saying?

And I moved out there with a friend that just believed in me that I made out there in LA, and I was living out there with him and his fiance, you know?

[chuckles] So they just had a lot of belief in me, and I was just lucky enough to have people like that around.

But it was, you know, it was hard because you don't have a, it's like you, you have the goal in mind and you have - Yeah.

- You know what you wanna do, but there's no set path to take, so you gotta create your own path.

So that was the hardest part was creating my own path, and finding out, you know, what those steps were.

But I just took it a day at a time and, you know, a lot of things started to attract my way.

And I just, and the hardest thing was like, through those adversities that I had in LA, you know, I went through a lot of times where I was moving from place to place, from friends house to friend house, and all of this stuff like that.

And some moments where I couldn't find a place to stay.

So.

[laughs] - Yeah.

- And you know, it's those moments that test you and that make you feel like, is this for me?

Should I go back home?

Is this gonna be, is it gonna be like this for a long time or is it gonna get worse?

You know, but you gotta, you know, but you gotta have that mental strength and just, you know, and not had that mental drive just to say, "No, I've been through worse."

You know, I can stick this out.

It's gonna be worth it.

It's gonna be worth it for me.

It's gonna be worth it for the culture.

I know what I want to do with it.

And, you know, that helped get me through, you know.

And just having some support from people back at home rooting me on from, you know, my mom believing in me, from my friends that I've made in LA believing in me, you know, from these people believing in me.

I just wanted to, you know, I wanted to, you know, they helped me keep, they just helped me, you know, stay afloat and stay the course.

- So what's the best career advice that someone has given you?

- I think the best career advice someone has given me is to always be a student, and always have that pa-, and have enough patience with your dreams.

Because for me, in my generation, I, you know, I was lucky enough to be, to come up in a generation that I lived in, because we didn't have social media like that, right?

- Yeah.

- We didn't have like Instagram or like that instant gratification that someone can give you.

We had that we lived in that world- - You had to create it yourself.

- We had that, yeah, we lived in that world of delayed gratification, and you had to earn that gratification, you know what I'm saying?

And right now, and that made you practice more, that made you train more, that made you, you know, you didn't have opportunities.

So you had, so all you had was to get better and better and better and better until you were actually ready.

You know, and even if you were ready, there still wasn't an opportunity.

So you just had to keep going and getting better and getting better.

So when the opportunities finally came, you didn't have to get ready, you were ready.

- Yeah.

- You know, and now we live in that generation where of, you know, we have a lot of different ways of, you know, we have, you have so much more access, but at the same time, it's so much instant gratification out there through social media.

Somebody can make up one dance and then boom the whole world.

- They're huge, yeah.

- They're huge.

- They barely practiced.

- Which is good for them, but at the same time, it's like when it happens a lot of people start careers super really soon or wants to make a career out of it, and then they end up doing the same thing, because that's what got them to that level and end up doing that to keep up with that.

And, but as far as like pursuing an actual career or making a, you know, creating longevity for themselves, that becomes hard for them, because, you know, they've spent so much time on that they have spent no time training.

- That one thing, yeah.

- And, you know, and just growing, and evolving to the point where like they can actually evolve to another, you know, to evolve to having longer longevity, I guess.

So a lot of people will reach out to me on social medias like, I'm the Master P of this dance, or something like that.

[Pat laughs] Lil Buck, let me know.

How do you do it?

How do you last so long in this industry?

And how does, like, what's the secret?

You know, a lot of people would just ask me.

And it is, you know, for me it was just, you know, being patient with myself.

Yeah, I try to tell the kids in Memphis all the time, like, 'cause they always hit me up, "Man, I'm ready.

I'm ready for the, I'm ready to, I'm ready to go."

And they ain't even graduated high school yet, you know.

- Yeah, it's like- - So, I'm like, listen, just slow down man and just be patient.

- Prepare.

- Keep training, keep preparing, keep preparing.

And you know, you are only gonna get stronger, and that opportunity is gonna come.

And when it presents itself, you're gonna be ready.

- So speaking of being ready, what is next for you?

- There's a lot I'm working on right now.

- What can you tell us?

[Pat laughs] - Okay, what I can tell you is that I've seen, you know, I've seen how people are inspired by seeing me on commercials and on TV and things like that, because that's what we do right?

You know, we like to watch our TV shows.

We have to watch our TV.

And I see how that inspires a lot of, that's been inspiring a lot of people.

A lot of people have been reaching out to me saying, "Man, I started dancing now because of you, or I started doing this."

And I think that's a form of, I mean that's something that I always had a passion for is doing that.

You know, not just for my career or something that, or because that's something I love to do, but also because I know what that does for people back at, you know, back in my hometown that see me do that, you know.

And so I've been getting, I've been getting a lot into choreographing TV shows, and actually just acting in films and TV.

That's another passion I'm getting into.

So I'm working on a film right now.

I'm working on a stage show, a Broadway show that I'm developing right now in New York.

I have my own show called "Memphis Jookin: The Show", that I've created that right here in the city of Memphis, Tennessee with all the cast members being native to the city.

And we did two tours of that.

And we're working on an international tour right now.

A lot of them it's gonna be their first time traveling internationally.

- Oh wow.

- To like London, and Paris, and Japan, and Korea, and places like this.

So like, I'm really working on that right now.

And yeah, I'm working on the Lil Buck Foundation, and it's a foundation I'm working towards that should be up and running within the, you know, two or three months from now.

But it's, but it's a foundation I' m working on to just give opportunities back to the youth in Memphis, Tennessee.

- Well, it's amazing.

I know that they're telling us that we have to wrap up.

I told them there wouldn't be a problem with us talking.

[both laughing] - Yeah.

- This time period, there is so much more that I could ask you.

I have tons of other questions, so maybe we'll get back together and we'll have a conversation, part two - We will, absolutely.

- With Lil Buck.

[laughs] - Thank you so much.

- Well, thank you.

Thank you for your time.

I appreciate this.

It's been great having this conversation with you.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

[upbeat music] [upbeat music continues] [acoustic guitar chords]