- [Narrator] Production and distribution of City Club forums on Idea Stream public media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.

(upbeat intro music) - Good afternoon.

Good afternoon, and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

It's Friday, October 27th, and I'm Kristin Baird Adams, President of the City Club Board of Directors.

On behalf of City Club CEO, Dan Moulthrop and our incredible staff and board, I'm honored to welcome you to the 2023 annual meeting of the City Club, and of course, the grand opening of our new home here at Playhouse Square.

(audience applauding) This is a generational moment.

If you look back over the 111 years of our organization's history, you'll see a few moments where we welcome the community to new spaces for the powerful conversations that we convene.

This includes our 1929 move to short Vincent Street, and decades later in 1983 to our previous home at ninth and Euclid.

And today we celebrate, of course, the grand opening of this beautiful space.

It's impossible to overstate just how important this moment is and just how hard so many have worked and so generously given of their time and their resource to get us here.

We've come a long way in just a few blocks and a long way from our founding in 1912 based on the simple desire to strengthen our community by providing a forum for civil civic dialogue, a place to address the most pressing issues of our time, discuss solutions, and to be inspired by diverse thinking and big ideas.

At the heart of what we do is the spoken word, one of humankind's earliest forms of art.

The spoken word thrived before written languages and remains rooted in the oral traditions of many cultures today.

Speeches often define moments in history, including George Washington's farewell address, Martin Luther King's speech to the March on Washington and Robert F. Kennedy's 1968, Mindless Menace of Violence speech delivered at the City Club the day after Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated.

Remarks that still resonate quite powerfully today.

Even in an era of emojis, texting, and AI, the art and exercise of the spoken word remains critical.

It is the speech, the word verbalize that provokes thought, sparks, debate, and wins arguments.

Today we are so grateful to have Playhouse Square President and CEO Craig Hassall join us in conversation with City Club CEO Dan Moulthrop about the power of the spoken word and the intersection of free speech and the arts.

Playhouse Square, the world, the country's largest performing arts center outside of New York City, eclipsed only by Lincoln Center, is an entertainment presenter and producer, an economic engine, and a national leader in arts education.

Prior to becoming President and CEO of Playhouse Square, earlier this year, Hassall was a mainstay in the international theater community with decades of experience operating and curating major venues in Europe and Australia, including Opera Australia, the English National Ballet, and most recently serving as CEO of London's Royal Albert Music Hall.

Moderating today's conversation is City Club CEO, Dan Moulthrop.

If you have a question for Mr. Hassall, you can text it to 330-541-5794.

That's 330-541-5794.

And the City club staff will do their best to work it into the second half of the program.

Members, friends, and guests of the City Club of Cleveland.

Please join me in welcoming Craig Hassall and Dan Moulthrop.

(audience applauding) - Kristen, thank you so much.

And welcome everybody again, once again to our new home here at 1317 Euclid Avenue.

I am Dan Moulthrop.

Craig, thank you for joining us today.

I know you've been traveling a lot and it was hard to get back here for this event, but thank you.

- [Craig] I came back especially for you Dan.

- I know you did.

That's why I'm thanking you.

- I arrived at 06:30 this morning.

Yes.

- Well, thank you so much.

So you've been here, actually here in Cleveland for less than a year, and I'm curious to know kind of what you found in these first months of taking over Playhouse Square?

- Sure.

That's a great question.

I suppose the first thing to say is, for me it was a Greenfield site.

I have no preconceptions, no expectations, no knowledge of Cleveland at all.

And it's interesting looking around the room today, I've been here eight or nine months.

There are so many familiar faces in this room today.

You've made me feel so incredibly welcome.

I mean, it's just been an absolute rollercoaster, but a really, really great one for me.

I'm very positively disposed to what Cleveland has to offer.

I mean, you probably, you all know this, but Cleveland punches way above its weight in terms of the cultural offer.

If you think of the Rock Hall, the orchestra, which had been the London several times when I was at the Royal Albert Hall, the art museum is, I mean, beyond compare.

And Playhouse Square, I can say this 'cause I didn't, I didn't, I didn't create it.

That was Pudge Henkel and Art Falco other folk.

It's extraordinary.

And in fact, Tom Adler gave me a tour of the theaters as part of the procurement process to get me to come over here.

- You were procured?

You weren't recruited?

- I was procured.

And I have to say it was Tom Adler's whistle stop tour of these extraordinary venues that made me think, actually, this is not a stupid idea.

Let me give, I'll give it a go.

(laughing) - Well, because you, 'cause I've heard you talk about this before, at the beginning when the recruiter called you, I'm sorry, the procurement officer called you.

(all laughing) You were like, Cleveland, what?

No, absolutely not.

- Yeah, I, and I kind of joke, or that's not a joke.

I was, I hadn't heard of Playhouse Square.

I had a fairly strong idea that Cleveland was near San Diego on the West coast (audience and Dan laughing) and beyond that I didn't really know anything else about it.

- And so then describe a little bit then of your impressions as Tom Adler walked you into whichever of the very impressive theater lobbies was first.

- Honestly, I was slightly overwhelmed by the capacity and the scale and the, just the beauty of these extraordinary 1920 spaces, the lobbies and the theaters.

I mean, they're both, I mean, I hope you've all seen them.

If you haven't, please visit.

They're exquisite.

But secretly, I was really, really pleased, they all looked completely renovated.

Because I came from a building in London, which is beautiful, but nowhere near in the condition that Playhouse Square theaters are in.

And for anyone who works in the heritage sector, renovating very old buildings is very, very challenging and very, very expensive.

So thank you to all the donors of Playhouse Square who funded the renovation before I arrived.

It was wonderful.

- Right.

But it is sort of extraordinary to find in a, you know, a legacy, a sort of legacy industrial belt kind of city.

These sort of assets all almost piled on top of each other in this three or four block area.

- It's unparalleled.

I mean, I don't know anywhere in the world that has such a concentration of theaters of that, of this scale and beauty.

I can't think in London, in Sydney, in Paris.

I just don't, they don't exist.

I don't think Cleveland's understand how extraordinary this neighborhood is, which you are now part of.

It's one in a million.

It really is.

- When Kristen was delivering the introduction, and she referenced the, a sort of figure that we all know very well here, Playhouse Square, the largest, you know, performing arts complex in the nation apart from Lincoln Center.

- Did I roll my eyes then?

- Yeah you rolled your eyes.

You whispered to me, you know, I think the line was eclipsed only by Lincoln Center and you said eclipsed at the moment.

(Craig and audience laughing) - Yes.

Watch this space.

- Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay watch this space for more, but like, seriously, what are your plans?

- Well, actually I should just say at the outset, I'm taking all this credit for things that started long before I was in the country.

So, but since I arrived, all the marquees have been redesigned and reinstalled and they're beautiful.

We opened a gallery just next door.

We are looking at other spaces inside Playhouse Square that could become venues as well.

So the venue count is going to grow, of that I'm certain.

And there are a few random ideas I can't really talk about yet, but we do want to increase.

- Oh, come on.

It's just us.

- It won't...

This is not being recorded, is it?

(laughing) - The venue count.

What is, I don't think people realize, even people who go to Playhouse Square all the time for the Broadway series and other things, I don't think they realize quite how many venues there are.

So how many venues are there?

- Yeah, I didn't realize that even after I started, to be honest, yeah.

There were rehearsal spaces I saw.

I thought, is this ours?

Yeah, we own this.

It's fine.

So when I began, we had 11 venues, and now the gallery next door makes it 12.

I predict there'll be 14 before the end of the year, and I predict there'll be... - Before the end of 2023?

- Yeah.

(laughing) Yeah, I think so.

And maybe we'll throw another one in next year at some point.

- Sorry where are your colleagues at Playhouse Square right now?

I mean.

- They know.

- They know.

There they're.

Yes, yes.

Can I get a thumbs up, Tom?

No?

- Yeah, Cindy, Cindy who does our comms is already saying you've said too much.

She's already shutting me down.

Yeah, enough.

Yeah.

- So say more about, like, the vision for Playhouse Square.

You've brought on all the, you've managed to harness a lot of the energy that was already, hat was created before you arrived, as you've said.

And there's quite a lot happening.

You've referenced a growth in venues, but say more about kind of where, what you imagine this could be in five or 10 years.

- Sure.

I should probably just give a bit of color to what Playhouse Square is right now.

For those who dunno the setup.

So first of all, Playhouse Square is a not-for-profit with all these amazing venues.

A lot of real estate that we own and more that we manage, which is an income stream for the charity, which is great.

But one of the really, really important components is the suite of resident companies, which you are now one of.

And the Cleveland Playhouse are here today.

Great Lakes are here today.

Anymore resident companies here?

Oh, great.

We have eight now, eight resident companies.

And that alongside our Broadway season, our education program, our concert season makes for an incredibly prolific outpouring of stuff in a year, which would be... - On top of which there's also like all the opportunistic sort of things that happen.

David Sedaris, Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.

And all of the comedy that comes, the everything.

- Yeah and what I was so pleasantly surprised about when I came is that the audiences are really enthusiastic and strong.

You know, just on the Broadway season, we have the highest number of season ticket holders in the country, more than Lincoln Center.

(laughing) I love so.

(audience laughing and applauding) Actually, actually Henry, he's a good friend of mine who runs Lincoln Center.

I hope he doesn't hear this.

(laughing) But no, it's just, it's extraordinary to me coming here and not being from this part of the world, just how supportive of the arts Clevelander;s and people around Cleveland are.

The fact that we have 40 odd thousand season ticket holders and we have eight resident companies now, including City Club that can sustain, you know, really strong and long seasons of theater, film, dance, ballet, all sorts of things.

It's remarkable.

So to answer your question.

- Five to 10 years.

Yes.

- Yeah, five to 10 years, build on all of that.

So we've got you in.

That's good.

So, and there might be a way to form partnerships with more organizations in Cleveland that don't need to be resident at Playhouse Square, but do great work.

And that's something I want to explore in the next five years.

One thing I did in London, which I was bang a drum about, was the public realm and activating and animating the public realm.

And when I arrived in Cleveland, I discovered to my joy that the Mayor Justin is very much of the same thought.

So is the county, you know, Chris Rene, there's a real shared ambition to animate and activate the public spaces outside these extraordinary theaters.

So that's something I want to put more focus on as well and was doing in London also.

But another thing which, and this is, well, this is slightly controversial.

When I came here... - Controversial.

- We love it, a controversy.

City Club sustainability was never spoken of.

It just doesn't seem to be on the agenda here.

Now, I may be naive and I may be misled, but in London, every business plan, every conversation, every building project would have a sustainable quotient or a focus on how it to be more sustainable as a building, as a neighborhood, as a city.

And I don't feel that we, I feel we're a bit behind, and it's not that people aren't enthusiastic.

We formed a committee at Playhouse Square of staff who wanted to be involved in sustainability, and we were oversubscribed.

So I know the staff are really keen on this issue, but I just don't feel that if it's a Cleveland thing or it's a US thing that we are as.

- So I will, I will say this, I think that if you'd been here the last 10 years or so, you would've seen a very large invisible push around sustainability.

Much of it emanating from city hall, actually under Mayor Bibb's predecessor, Mayor Jackson, and also led by local philanthropy, Cleveland Foundation and Gun Foundation as well.

But in America today and in Ohio today, the S in ESG, right?

Equity, sustainability and governance is not, like all of it is very difficult for people to, in today's political environment, it is difficult to have meaningful conversation about it.

That actually advances policy.

- Yeah.

I get that.

- I think I've said that appropriately.

It's hard.

It's a really difficult thing to talk about right now.

Because... - It's party political.

- Right yeah, yeah.

- It's my observation as an outsider.

But I do think there's an ambition and enthusiasm for it amongst the people of Cleveland.

It's just not as high on the agenda as I would've expected.

But certainly, I mean, Cleveland State, our neighbors who are here today.

- Yes.

- Great.

- Thank you, sir.

- I know are very, very big on this issue.

And one thing I'd love to see, my grand vision for Playhouse Square is to join up with CSU and have a dedicated strategy across two really large campuses of downtown Cleveland for biodiversity and zero waste and a whole lot of initiatives, which will be so good for the city.

And what I like about Cleveland is you're so, you're so enthusiastic.

You support ideas, you are entrepreneurial.

You duck and weave because you're not as big as LA or New York.

So the ability to be, to duck and weave through ideas is there.

And I think this could be one where we could be an exemplar to the rest of the country in practices for sustainability.

So that's exciting as well.

- In terms of the built environment of Playhouse Square, do you foresee any changes to kind of the sidewalks we walk down, the streets we navigate.

What would you like to see?

Are you allowed to talk about what you wanna see?

- I don't.

Cindy, can I?

(laughing) - Could you, in as much as you can share some of your vision.

- Sure.

- Actually, so we had about three months ago, Tom Adler, who, who's a trustee here, suggested we host what's called a charette, which is a posh word for a meeting.

And we invited a lot of, well, it is, it is, because it sounds French.

Well, it is French.

Anyway, so we had a meeting at Playhouse Square and invited all the great and the good from Cleveland, from real estate property, neighboring institutions and so on.

And it was a really helpful day.

And that was particularly to say, and Tom's idea was, look, forget the money, forget, just forget planning, just what could we do with the neighborhood in the next five, 10 years.

And what was really exciting was we came up with some very tangible things, two of which I'll tell you about, one of which I won't.

That will be really advanced, the public realm of Playhouse Square.

And one of them is making Euclid Avenue more pedestrian friendly in some way.

I'm not saying closing it, I'm just saying change the focus more towards pedestrians, a little less away from cars.

How we do it, we don't know.

But if we have that ambition, and again, this is where CSU is really important and public square.

And K&D, you know, all these sort of local partners.

If we have a shared ambition to make Euclid Avenue, which is basically the high street of Cleveland, this is your main street.

If that can be celebrated more as a pedestrian activation animation performance area, that'd be great.

- It is.

Speaking of CSU, I mean, this portion of Euclid Avenue that we look out on here from the forum is, you know, every minute of the day almost there are students, going back and forth from the sort of central part of the campus to the mid building around the corner, which is where all of the arts education happens.

And then there's the film school upstairs next door at the Idea Center.

And I mean, this is, in many ways, I mean, like campuses need are function best when they're pedestrian friendly.

- Totally, and what's what's handy about Cleveland is you already have three campuses ready to go.

You have public square, Playhouse Square, and CSU.

They naturally join up.

And as I know, there's a lot of interest from downtown Cleveland Incorporated to focus on nuclear avenue with lighting and activations.

And wouldn't it be great if we had a really celebratory sort of boulevard that was pedestrian friendly, that would be a destination for tourism, events.

It focuses the city really well.

I just can't see a downside in doing that, so.

- So that's one of three.

- That's one of three.

The second one is really easy.

And if anyone's here from the city, we could do this this afternoon.

I mean, we could do it literally after this.

We could do it after lunch.

- I have some time in my calendar.

Let's go.

- We just need a few barricades and maybe a small tractor.

(audience laughing) - Mayor Daley of Chicago.

- Yeah, that's, yes.

And this is a really simple one.

Often the best ideas are really simple.

Close half of Huon Road East one that's just there, literally outside this building.

Close it from Euclid down to where there's a parking garage, that would double the size of the US Bank Plaza.

We would then reconfigure, we'd raise money.

Tomnhouse would help design the whole thing.

And we'd have a really brilliant congregational space outside City Club.

- [Dan] Perfect.

- I mean, it'd be like Speaker's corner in London.

It'd be so cool, so easy to do.

And in fact, I took my inspiration from the woman who looked after the pedestrianization of Times Square in New York, Shelly, she had a lot of support, but no money.

And they'd just closed Times Square one Thursday evening.

And she thought, oh, I can't swear on the radio, aren't we?

She swore and said, we have to get on with this.

So she went out and sent her team out to buy a hundred or 200 sun lounges, you know, the ones you see on the beach.

And they closed times square and put the sun lounges out overnight.

The next morning people arrived thought, what the hell?

And sat down and suddenly became a pedestrian space.

So we could do a similar thing.

And if that happens, we would money notwithstanding, you know, activate, animate, and make that a destination for locals, visitors, all sorts.

- You know our urban planning community and design community has celebrated parking day.

Are you familiar with parking day?

- No, I'm not.

- Where they... - We don't really have cars where I came from.

- No, no.

Where they create parks, mini parks out of parking lot, parking spots.

- Nice.

Yeah.

- So where a car might have it's Cleveland, so might have struggled to parallel park, there would be somebody would roll out some AstroTurf and a lounge chair, and then there's a main park.

And so I think this is the kind of experiment that our community, that certain parts of our community would certainly get behind.

- I think so.

And I think there's certainly a move here for more downtown residential.

I think, are we either at 20,000 or we're heading towards it, that's really good.

And the more people that live and work downtown, I see it across, I see it in Melbourne, in Australia, I see it in Paris.

The more people that live and work in your downtown, the more alive your downtown is and one begets the other, then suddenly there are more bars, more restaurants, it's safer, cleaner, nicer, there are more trees.

It all leads to that.

And I think we're all happily, as I said, you know, Chris, Justin Bibb, we're all on the same page.

We're all moving in the same direction.

It's really encouraging.

- [Dan] And what was the third?

(Craig laughing) Just kidding.

- Oh gee, he's good, isn't he?

He's good.

- Let's pivot.

- Tom Aler knows, but he won't say.

- Yeah.

Okay.

Tom, if you could just grab a mic in a second.

(Craig and audience laughing) Let's pivot into the content.

We've created the Playhouse Square and the City Club itself.

We're platforms, essentially.

Platforms for a particular kind of art form or form of culture, the spoken word.

Talk a little bit about why that is so meaningful.

I mean, when you were at Royal Albert Hall, which is essentially a music venue as most of us, or some, I mean, that... - No, no.

- Not at all.

See that's the problem.

Right there.

- Right there.

- It's guys like me.

- Okay, lemme give, can I give you a 22nd history lesson on the Royal Albert Halls?

- Please.

- And this is relevant.

- My God.

- This is relevant to spoken word Cleveland.

The Royal Albert Hall was created by Prince Albert who died before it was built.

And he wanted to be a forum for people like us, you know, the great unwashed to go and learn.

I'm sorry.

- Speak for yourself.

- I'm sorry I don't mean, I don't mean any offense in that.

- I'm just saying... - (speaking faintly) the people is what you're saying.

- Yeah, I don't have a title, you know, I'm just like you.

- Right.

- You know what I mean?

I might sound different.

- Landed gentry.

- I am not landed gentry.

- Okay.

- I'm actually Australian, so that's even worse, you know, anyway.

So he wanted a center for the democratization of the sharing of ideas, which isn't that noble and that's why they built the Royal Albert Hall.

And it was primarily for Salvation Army concerts and discussions and forums and debates.

So spoken word was right there at the start.

Now, unfortunately, spoken word doesn't draw a lot of crowds, well, in the day.

- Except today.

- Except today, obviously.

That's you and me though, Dan.

- Yeah.

- And music does.

So more and more orchestral events were programmed and so on and so on.

And it kind of, I'm speaking slightly out of school here, it kind of lost its way for what it was intended to be.

So when I was at the Royal Albert Hall, I was championing spoken word crazily because I wanted to get back to a more balanced presentation of what the building was created for.

What's in the royal charter of the Royal Albert Hall.

And spoken word was something that I was very keen that we had more of at the Royal Albert Hall, and we did.

And because we're not in 1871, and we were in 2020 odd, we had pod- live podcasts.

One great, actually, it's a great one.

It's called "The Rest is Politics".

I dunno if you know it.

It's Rory Stewart and Alistair Campbell.

It's the number one podcast in the UK.

It's very political.

He's left winging, he's right wing.

It's wonderful.

They did their first live podcast, the Royal Albert Hall sold out in 20 minutes, it was huge.

Another one, which is not so edifying, was called "My Dad Wrote a Porno", which was... (audience laughing) - Say more about that, Craig.

- I don't...

I really don't want to Dan.

I did have to go on stage and introduce them though.

And I was so embarrassed.

Anyway, you can look it up.

It's very funny.

It's British humor.

And then we did a another, after I told Dan this story, there was a, there's an actor called Benedict Cumberbatch.

You've probably heard of him.

- I'm sorry, who?

(Craig laughing) - He's a, the Cumberbatch, that's what they call his.

- Yeah Benedict.

Yes.

- So Benedict Cumberbatch has a lot of friends who are very famous actors.

So he started a thing called Letters Live, which I was so proud to host.

It was him grabbing all his mates, like Olivia Coleman and Steven Fry and Jude Law and so on, to just come on stage and read a letter from a famous person.

And they ranged from, well, Olivia Coleman read a letter from Queen Mary to her son and Jude Law read out an inscription in the North Pole, which basically says, if you can read this, we finished.

Because it had, the North Pole had said sort of not sunk thought so much.

That was pretty bad.

And that also sold out.

So the spoken word is incredibly popular and it's edifying, it's educational, it's entertaining.

So when I came to Playhouse Square, I didn't really see that we had a lot of it, although, as you say, the concert program at Playhouse Square is prolific with lots of comedians and authorities as well.

But nothing like what City Club does.

So that's why I think it's great.

Although I should ask you, why do you think it's great?

- It is, you know, it's... - What are you gonna do, Dan?

- Oh, thanks.

(Craig and audience laughing) Oh, well Craig.

- Just flip things around?

Thanks for coming.

- You know, just to build on what you're saying, it strikes me that in this particular moment, the way, which is a moment in which it is easier than ever for anyone to share whatever their last thought was, that we can provide a platform for the considered thought in long form is a unique value proposition.

And it is uniquely edifying to use your word, but also I think something that our communities and our nation desperately need right now.

We have, you know, we're sort of plagued with political leadership that loves to share their last fleeting thought as well on X or whichever platform they have access to.

And, oh, just, I just realized what I said, sorry.

(audience laughing) - The... - We're very bipartisan at city.

- Well, but, or untruth social or wherever, but it's so often not really considered.

And it is more about grabbing cliques and grabbing attention than it is about actually advancing the project of humankind, the project of democracy, the project of peace, and the project, I mean, the spoken word is why, was it like Winston Churchill who said, politics is what we do so we don't kill each other or something like that, right?

The spoken word is the basis of diplomacy.

And it is the... - [Craig] A hundred percent.

- It is the basis of how we move things forward.

And it is, in fact, I think the alternative to war, right?

Having the conversations about the differences that we experience so that we can better understand one another and build empathy.

- And we've lost the forums for that to happen.

You know, back in the day before I was born, you'd have debates on the radio, you know, on the ABC in Australia.

You would have long form editorials in the Times of London.

Journalism now is soundbites because of social media.

So where is the forum for a considered discussion on a topic?

And that's where it sounds like an advertorial City Club, but this is that's... - Yeah, just go on.

- That is, but that is why places like this are so important.

And particularly I would say, I would say, wouldn't I, in a place like Playhouse Square where it rounds out the offer between Great Lakes, Cleveland Playhouse, Film Festival.

And what I hope we'll see, this is a leading question, a leading hope is that City Club being physically in this neighborhood means new things will happen, new shoots will grow, that there'll be discussions, debates, collaborations between the resident companies that'll, you know, we are stronger together.

And that's something I think will definitely happen because of you and this organization.

That's really exciting.

- Yeah.

- End of advertorial.

- Well, I just wanna say one other thing about that continues the advertorial for a second.

The design of the space itself too, that, you know, for as we heard before, 111 years, this is our sixth home.

And there's something about this space that is very different from every previous home that we've had.

And our colleagues at DLR worked with us to design a space where as we sit here, people walking by and we can see them and there's in fact somebody looking in here, wondering what is it they're talking about.

- You can see the road that I want to close.

- Right.

- You can see the road.

- You can see the road that you wanna close.

- And can I just say, Dan, in the time we've been talking, two cars have driven down that road.

I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

(audience laughing) - There is more activity than that Craig, but... - Close that road.

- But the point, the point of the space and the design, what we wanted, intended to communicate with the design is that this space, this conversation we're having, every conversation that happens on this stage is an extension of the public realm.

It's not just about things that are of public concern.

It is literally, the conversation itself is an extension of the public realm.

And that all are welcome.

And this sense of transparency here is really key to that.

- [Craig] Totally.

- Well I loved also, while you were building this building, you were having discussions and chats across the road on the plaza.

- [Dan] That's right.

- Because you didn't wanna stop, so you took it to the people.

- Can't stop, won't stop.

- Can't stop, won't stop.

(audience laughing) And they're really popular.

It's great.

So more of that, more of that.

- More of the public dialogue in the public realm is definitely a direction we're gonna continue to push, we're gonna get to questions from our friends in the audience in just a second.

But Craig, I'm curious about if you have on your sort of wishlist of things like the someday ideas, if you've got one or two that you could share with the audience here.

- Dan I've already said too much.

I think... - No, but more like wouldn't it be great to do letters live on the stage at the Ohio Theater or something like that?

(indistinct) Ohio Theater.

- Okay, here's one.

So, and I've already talked to Greg at the Rock Hall and Andre at the orchestra.

I would love us to see more collaborations between these big institutions in Cleveland for Clevelanders.

And by that I mean, enticing the orchestra to come to Playhouse Square and perform at the KeyBank State would be wonderful.

Which probably means getting a new sound system and it mean, it's a whole lot of things.

But that'd be terrific.

- That kind of dream.

- And Greg at the Rock Hall, you know, the Rock Hall, it's extraordinary, Cleveland has the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

You know, it was a competition.

And I think we're up, "we" I say we now, we.

Yeah, we, we.

Yeah, we're up against, I think New York, Vegas, I don't know who else, Cleveland won it.

And it's a great institution.

So we've just, you know, redesigned our marquees, which are beautiful.

We haven't seen, they're marvelous.

And so I said to Greg, okay, how about every time there's an induction, we do a takeover and say, well done.

KikiD.

That's a terible example.

Elton John, I don't know.

(audience laughing) And that's, so just again, joining up with the institution so that Cleveland is stronger together.

And my biggest aspiration, which I think I said to Amy Brady when I was going for this job as part of the procurement process, I said, wouldn't it be great if Cleveland became a destination the way Nashville is and New Orleans is, and Detroit is, you just, you don't go to Nashville because so-and-so is playing.

You go to Nashville because it's Nashville and there's always something to see.

Now we are almost there.

We just need to be joined up and raise the number of activities a little bit more.

And then we're there.

- The Wiz was a good example of that.

- Yeah, great.

(audience applauding) - Bringing the Wiz, which was felt like Broadway, but hasn't been to Broadway.

I mean, that was an example of the sort of thing you're talking about.

Totally.

And just on that topic, I've been in LA at a conference of the independent presenters network, and we had a long discussion about the Broadway ecosystem and the touring system.

And I didn't realize until I came to Cleveland how important the touring Broadway circuit is to the ecosystem of Broadway shows.

- [Dan] To the economics.

- To the economics.

Well, economics profile or job opportunities, job creation for performers and crew, but also how important Cleveland is to the touring model.

Now we are arguably the most important touring stop on the tour around the country because the number of season ticket holders that we have.

So that's pretty extraordinary.

But what's happening now at Broadway, the costs of capitalization are prohibitively expensive and many shows are closing because they just can't keep running and can't capitalize.

Now that doesn't mean the tour world is gonna suffer, but actually it means the touring world becomes more and more important in the scheme of things.

So we Cleveland, are incredibly well placed to benefit from that slight change of the power base.

- And as I understand it economically, it's actually, there's greater return on the tour than there is on Broadway.

- Yeah, I mean, the way I kind of describe it, it's a bit like the Broadway season is the Paris Fashion Show where they show off the wares, but it's not really commercial.

The tour is like those versions of those clothes appearing in a high street store.

You know, we are more retail, we have higher numbers, and we are all across the country.

- Right, Greg Hassall ladies and gentlemen.

(audience applauding) So, we're about to begin the Q&A with the audience.

Again, I'm Dan Moulthrop, Chief Executive here at the City Club.

And as I said, we're joined by Craig Hassall, he's president and CEO at Playhouse Square.

And we're talking about a lot of things, not just about the intersection of free speech and the arts.

We welcome questions from everyone, City Club members, guests, students, and those of you joining via our live stream at cityclub.org or radio broadcast or live radio broadcast on 89.7 Idea Stream Public media, WKSU.

If you'd like to text a question for our speaker, you can text it to 330-541-5794.

The number again is 330-541-5794.

And our staff will try to work it into the program.

May we have our first question please?

- [Nikki] Hi, Craig.

Nikki Sullivan.

Hello everyone.

I absolutely love Playhouse Square.

My question is surrounding diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.

What are your plans for Playhouse Square in the future?

Thank you.

- Sure, thanks and great question.

Diversity inclusion is something that I was championing in London, and my aspiration when I was running the Royal Albert Hall was I wanted the people that worked there, and performed there, and attended there, to look like the people outside in London.

That sounds really easy.

And it was very difficult, and we didn't get there.

We got close, we ended up with the people that lived, attended, worked, performed, looking like the people of the UK but that wasn't enough.

And now, similarly, a bit like sustainability, when I arrived at Playhouse Square, we set up a staff committee for DE&I.

And again, we were oversubscribed, there were more staff that wanted to be involved in that discussion than we had placed at the table for, which was very encouraging.

It's something we all have to work at, and you can't be complacent, I think, with these things, or I think the two keys for place at Playhouse Square is programming and recruitment.

And by recruitment I don't mean having a line new ad that says we are an equal opportunity, blah, blah, blah, that's pointless.

It's actually making a place like Playhouse Square feel welcome to people of all religions, races, colors, levels of access, everything.

There are nine characteristics.

We have to look to each of those nine and make sure we are doing something, actually doing something positive and supportive so that people feel welcome to work at Playhouse Square.

And then programming similarly, we found in London, and this happens at Playhouse Square as well, what you put on stage.

So obviously this is not rocket science, will then dictate who sits in the audience.

It's really straightforward.

So I'd say they're the two key ways to start, but we've got a long way to go.

It's a long journey and it takes a lot of work and you can't take her off the ball, but thanks Nikki.

Good question.

- [Dan] Next question, please.

- Hi, good afternoon.

Craig, you talked about how creating a more residential downtown will make it safer, cleaner, and nicer in general.

So my question is, one, what are your thoughts around creating residential spaces that regular people can afford to live in?

And two, what will you do to ensure that people who are keeping downtown safe are able to do those jobs free of harassment, intimidation, and retaliation from their employers, one of which is Pal American Security, who currently provides services at Playhouse Square.

Thank you.

- Okay, thank you.

I'll deal with Pal American first.

That's a more specific question.

We work with a whole range of organizations.

We have great links with the unions that we deal with every day.

We have equity tours and non-equity tours and all sorts, musicians are unionized in this country as they are in the UK, and we have a great relationship.

So that's terrific.

Pal American is a contractor that we use to provide security services.

And the SEIU brought to our attention that there was a concern that they were not playing ball and we didn't know.

So we checked it out and they reassured us that they were, so that particular issue I think is between SEIU and Pal American.

All I really wanna say is that we value our security teams immensely.

And one thing, and this is a small thing, but it's a really important thing we've done since I came, is whether the security guards that work in the Playhouse Square neighborhood are direct employees of us or employees of a contractor.

We wanna make sure they're properly paid, proper benefits, all those things.

But also we have net, they're now kitted out in blazers that say Playhouse Square.

That sounds like a little tiny pointless thing, but it's not at all, it's much more that the security staff should be more like concierges, not sort of strong arm tactic security guards.

I think we should be working towards creating a neighborhood where people are safe and feel safe, but also feel communal and having a nice experience of it.

And to your point, the residential is a really important part of that.

And I like what you say, I think residential doesn't just just mean, you know, high end, it should be high-end, medium, affordable, because all these spaces have workers that need different levels of accommodation.

So we have to provide all levels of accommodation for a properly integrated, vibrant downtown city.

So, and I think we're going in the right direction doing it.

So I've been pleased with what I've seen.

It's happened before me and going on now as well.

Thank you.

- Thank you very much.

Next question.

- Okay, how about every time there's an induction, we do a takeover and say, well done KikiD, that's general example.

Elton John, I don't know.

And that's, so just again, joining up with the institution so that Cleveland is stronger together.

And my biggest aspiration, which I think I said to Amy Brady when I was going for this job as part of the procurement process, I said, wouldn't it be great if Cleveland became a destination the way Nashville is and New Orleans is and Detroit is, you just, you don't go to Nashville because so-and-so is playing.

You go to Nashville because it's Nashville and there's always something to see.

Now we are almost there.

We just need to be joined up and raise the number of activities a little bit more and then we're there.

- The Wiz was a good example of that.

- Yeah, great.

(audience applauding) Bringing the Wiz, which was felt like Broadway, but hasn't been to Broadway.

I mean, that was an example of the sort of thing you're talking about.

- Totally.

And just on that topic, I've been in LA at a conference of the independent presenters network, and we had a long discussion about the Broadway ecosystem and the touring system.

And I didn't realize until I came to Cleveland how important the touring Broadway circuit is to the ecosystem of Broadway shows.

- [Dan] To the economics.

- To the economics.

Well economics profile or job opportunities, job creation for performers and crew, but also how important Cleveland is to the touring model.

Now we are arguably the most important touring stop on the tour around the country because the number of season ticket holders that we have.

So that's pretty extraordinary.

But what's happening now at Broadway, the cost of capitalization are prohibitively expensive and many shows are closing because they just can't keep running and can't capitalize.

Now that doesn't mean the tour world is gonna suffer, but actually it means the touring world becomes more and more important in the scheme of things.

So we Cleveland, are incredibly well placed to benefit from that slight change of the power base.

- And as I understand it economically, it's actually, there's greater return on the tour than there is on Broadway.

- Yeah, I mean, the way I kind of describe it, it's a bit like the Broadway season is the Paris Fashion Show where they show off the wares, but it's not really commercial.

The tour is like those versions of those clothes appearing in a high street store.

You know, we are more retail, we have higher numbers, and we are all across the country.

- Right.

Craig Hassall, ladies and gentleman.

(audience applauding) So we're about to begin the Q&A with the audience.

Again, I'm Dan Moulthrop, Chief Executive here at the City Club, and as I said, we're joined by Craig Hassall, he's President and CEO at Playhouse Square.

And we're talking about a lot of things, not just about the intersection of free speech and the arts.

We welcome questions from everyone, city club members, guests, students, and those of you joining via our live stream at cityclub.org or radio broadcast or live radio broadcast on 89.7 Idea Stream Public Media, WKSU.

If you'd like to text a question for our speaker, you can text it to 330-541-5794.

The number again is 330-541-5794 and our staff will try to work it into the program.

May we have our first question please?

- [Nikki] Hi Craig, Nikki Sullivan.

Hello everyone.

I absolutely love Playhouse Square.

My question is surrounding diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility.

What are your plans for Playhouse Square in the future?

Thank you.

- Thanks and great question.

Diversity inclusion is something that I was championing in London.

And my aspiration when I was running the Royal Albert Hall was I wanted the people that worked there, and performed there, and attended there, to look like the people outside in London.

That sounds really easy and it was very difficult.

And we didn't get there.

We got close, we ended up with the people that lived, attended, worked, performed, looking like the people of the UK but that wasn't enough.

And now similarly, a bit like sustainability.

When I arrived at Playhouse Square, we set up a staff committee for DE&I, and again, we were oversubscribed, there were more staff that wanted to be involved in that discussion than we had placed at the table for, which was very encouraging.

It's something we all have to work at and you can't be complacent.

I think, with these things or I think the two keys for a place like Playhouse Square is programming and recruitment.

And by recruitment I don't mean having a line new ad that says we are an equal opportunity, blah, blah, blah, that's pointless.

It's actually making a place like Playhouse Square feel welcome to people of all religions, races, colors, levels of access, everything.

There are nine characteristics.

We have to look to each of those nine and make sure we are doing something, actually doing something positive and supportive, so that people feel welcome to work at Playhouse Square.

And then programming similarly we found in London, and this happens at Playhouse Square as well, what you put on the stage.

So obviously this is not rocket science, we'll then dictate who sits in the audience.

It's really straightforward.

So I'd say they're the two key ways to start, but we've got a long way to go.

It's a long journey and it takes a lot of work and you can't take her off the ball, but thanks.

Good question.

Next question please.

- Hi, good afternoon.

Craig you talked about how creating a more residential downtown will make it safer, cleaner, and nicer in general.

So my question is, one, what are your thoughts around creating residential spaces that regular people can afford to live in?

And two, what will you do to ensure that people who are keeping downtown safe are able to do those jobs free of harassment, intimidation and retaliation from their employers, one of which is Pal American Security, who currently provides services at Playhouse Square.

Thank you.

- Okay, thank you.

I'll deal with Pal American first.

That's a more specific question.

We work with a whole range of organizations.

We have great links with the unions that we deal with every day.

We have equity tours and non-equity tours and all sorts.

Musicians are unionized in this country as they are in the UK, and we have a great relationship.

So that's terrific.

Pal American is a contractor that we use to provide security services, and the SEIU brought to our attention that there was a concern that they were not playing ball and we didn't know.

So we checked it out and they reassured us that they were, so that particular issue I think is between SEIU and Pal American.

All I really wanna say is that we value our security teams immensely.

And one thing, and this is a small thing, but it's a really important thing we've done since I came, is whether the security guards that work in the Playhouse Square neighborhood are direct employees of us or employees of a contractor, we wanna make sure they're properly paid, proper benefits, all those things.

But also we have net- they're now kitted out in blazers that say Playhouse Square.

That sounds like a little tiny pointless thing, but it's not at all, it's much more that the security staff should be more like concierges, not sort of strong arm tactic security guards.

I think we should be working towards creating a neighborhood where people are safe and feel safe, but also feel communal and having a nice experience of it.

And to your point, the residential is a really important part of that.

And I like what you say, I think residential doesn't just just mean, you know, high-end, it should be high-end, medium, affordable, because all these spaces have workers that need different levels of accommodation.

So we have to provide all levels of accommodation for a properly integrated, vibrant downtown city.

So, and I think we're going in the right direction doing it.

So I've been pleased with what I've seen.

It's happened before me and going on now as well.

Thank you.

- Thank you very much.

Next question.

- Thank you.

My name is Marco Feqaris, I have been a Red Coat for 30 years.

- [Craig] Oh, well done.

(audience applauding) - And as I look around the room, I see so many people who look so good in Red Coast for about three hours per on a day.

Any day your choice except Monday.

- Wonderful.

(audience applauding) - Hello and so glad you're here in Cleveland.

I've long admired the Greyhound Bus Station and I believe I read an article that you were quoted in saying that you had your eye on that.

And I was just wondering if you could elaborate on what might happen with that.

- [Dan] Is this the third thing you weren't supposed to talk?

(audience laughing) - Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

That's what I was thinking.

(audience laughing) - Honestly.

You people.

- I heard you, I heard you, I heard you live on the radio talk about it.

- Oh God.

Okay, firstly, I wanna apologize again to Cindy Semanski, who's the head of comms.

(audience laughing) I have said on, well I'm not the first person to say this, by the way.

Tom Adler has also said, artist said this.

- [Dan] Right.

Sure.

- Whether it's a thing or not, that building, I mean it's beautiful for a start.

I mean, I love the whole deco era.

It's just in a theater in LA which is (indistinct) to the core, beautiful.

But it's not for us to say what happens to that building.

I mean, it's great.

It's right at the north side of our campus.

It's wonderful.

And I have said, and that's not, I'm not making it up.

I would love us to be able to use that, but only if it suits Greyhound's purposes.

Because it provides an important resource now to people traveling around the country.

So it's not for us to change the use of that building.

If that building changed its use and we were able to make it a space for a Playhouse Square for more access for audiences, well of course it's a non-starter.

I mean it's obvious.

And... - [Dan] What would you do with it?

- I'd rather not say.

(audience laughing) - Just hypothetically.

- I won't say Dan.

All I'll say is we'd make it, it won't be my office.

I mean, it'll be public, it'll be for, it'll be for the people of Cleveland, put it that way.

But very importantly, just strategically Playhouse Square, it's funny 'cause in London no one drives cars.

You know, you guys all drive everywhere.

And so you drive to Playhouse Square and you park at the back.

Let's face it, you park at the back and... - [Dan] On the north side.

- Well, I call.. - The north entrance.

- We now call it the north side, but it feels like the back, you know what I mean?

I would've normally gotten the bus and got off on Euclid Avenue and saw the amazing marquees, the lovely streets and then walked into the lovely theaters.

But most of you, like 60% of you drive to the parking garage and come in that way.

So I kind of, I give in, that's the north entrance.

We're gonna make it fantastic, and beautiful, and active animated.

And if we were able to at some stage be able to use a building like that Greyhound terminal, which is right there, wouldn't that be great?

There we are.

I've said too much, yeah.

(audience applauding) - Seems appropriate.

It seems like the appropriate amount of things to say about that, okay.

- Thanks.

- Next question.

- Yes.

I have a text question to share.

As Cleveland and Ohio invest in various innovation economies, Playhouse Square stands out as one of the largest economic drivers in the city.

Given its prominence, how do you envision Playhouse Square's role in advancing the economic development goals of the region?

No, small question.

- That is such a good question.

- [Dan] I know.

You don't have time.

You've got 15 minutes to go.

- Okay.

First of all, that's a killer question and I love it.

It's almost like one of my team planted that, but I'm sure they didn't.

(audience laughing) So the first thing to say, I have to acknowledge Pudge Henkel and friends who saved these theaters way back.

(audience applauding) If we didn't have those exquisite heritage theaters, we wouldn't be able to do what we do today.

But I wanna also acknowledge Art Falco who expanded these beyond reason.

Well done.

(audience applauding) And the work Art did over many decades to expand and solidify and reinforce the operational and financial strength of Playhouse Square is only beneficial to Cleveland, to the resident companies, to audiences, and to economic growth.

So the latest thing we we're doing now is we're very lucky to be awarded tax credits by the state of Ohio for the production of Broadway shows.

What that means is that now we can entice producers to commission and develop and create new Broadway shows right here at Playhouse Square, which is great.

And the second thing is we can now open national tours like The Wiz in Cleveland, which each opening is another four weeks work for Ohioan.

So in terms of economic driver, Playhouse Square is already very strong, but it'll be even stronger when we can have more activity, which leads to entry level job creation.

And the jobs I'm talking about are not, these are not composers and directors and choreographers.

These are runners, drivers, security guards, maintenance crew, dresses, and all of whom are so important to getting a show on stage.

- [Dan] Many of which are union jobs too.

- Many of which are union jobs.

Yeah.

And so we want more and more of those jobs in Ohio.

And so the tax credits on top of the extraordinary base of resource that is Playhouse Square, it's a killer combo.

So it's really, really great.

- And just to explain a little bit more, the tax credit situation is very similar to the film production tax credits that Ohioans are already familiar with.

- That's right.

Yeah.

There was a little wrinkle previously in that there was one pot of money for film and theater.

Film would swoop in literally, Spider-Man, would swoop in and use all the tax credits.

Then the credits go, not to us, but to the person making the film or the show, just to be clear.

And there was no money left for theater.

So now there's a little pot, it's only small, but it's great because it's dedicated for theater, which means that producers on Broadway can create shows here in Cleveland and zip back and forth.

It's not far to New York as you know.

- [Dan] But this is a statewide program.

- Haven't got it quite yet.

- Craig Hassall, CEO, and President Playhouse Square.

(audience applauding) Great.

- No, not yet.

Not yet.

(audience applauding) He's very, Craig's very eager to close out the forum.

That would be a big moment for him.

Before we do so though, I want to thank Ulmer & Berne and PNC for their support of our forum today.

And we'd also like to welcome guests at tables hosted by Birthing Beautiful Communities, Cushman and Wakefield, and Cresco Real Estate, Falls and Company, Friends of Mark Ross and Mark Ross himself.

Huntington, Playhouse Square.

- [Craig] Just the friends of Mark, just.

- The friends of Mark Ross, not Mark Ross.

PNC, Standout Consulting, the Divine Nine, which is the intercollegiate Black-Greek organization, Thompson Hein, Turner Construction, and the United Way of Greater Cleveland.

We're so happy to have all of you with us today.

Thank you.

(audience applauding) I wanna remind everybody that we, following this forum, we have a community open house until four o'clock.

So if you're listening on the radio or watching the live stream, come on down and we'll give you a tour of the new space.

Your new home for Civic Dialogue.

Party starts now.

Drop in anytime before four o'clock.

And we've got a number of really great forums coming up at the City Club, starting with the state of downtown next Thursday, which we'll discuss.

It'll overlap a little bit with today, but it'll be pretty different.

And then Friday, November 3rd, we have our annual State of the Great Lakes, WKYC's Betsy Kling will be in conversation with Dr. Richard Spinrad.

He's the administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Thursday, November 9th, we'll hear from Dr. Warren Morgan.

He's the new CEO of the Cleveland Metropolitan School District, and that's our state of the schools that will be at the Huntington Convention Center.

You can find out more about all of these at cityclub.org.

We are now almost at the end of the forum.

If you're here with us in person, please join us in the Commons for a champagne toast but before that, if you are now or have ever served on the Board of the City Club or the Forum Foundation, we'd love to have you join us on the stage for a quick picture right now.

And so that brings us to the end.

Thank you, Craig.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen and friends of the City Club.

Members and friends of the City Club.

I'm Dan Moulthrop.

This forum is now adjourned now.

(bell dinging) - Whoa.

(audience applauding) - [Narrator] For information upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the City Club, go to cityclub.org.

(light outro music) Production and distribution of City Club forums on Idea Stream Public Media are made possible by PNC and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.