- Coming up on a special edition of "Austin InSight" an in-depth conversation with a rising local political star, State Representative James Talarico.

"Austin InSight" starts right now.

- [Announcer] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin, and also from Suerte, Este, and Bar Toti restaurants, bringing Austin together around culinary excellence to celebrate creativity, conservation, and culture in Central Texas.

(bright music) (bright music continues) - Hello, and thanks for joining us, I'm Laura Laughead.

With tens of millions of views on social media platforms like TikTok, along with national media coverage, you've likely seen or heard his sharp and sometimes surprising comments.

In a special edition of "Austin InSight", we sit down with State Representative James Talarico, a Democrat from Austin who is seriously considering running for a U.S. Senate seat next year.

Talarico is an aspiring preacher who is outspoken about his Christian faith.

And at age 36, he's become a viral sensation.

Take a look.

- Christian nationalists walk around with a mouth full of scripture and a heart full of hate.

Forcing our religion onto Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, and atheist students is not love.

You can't offer thoughts and prayers on Monday and then debate a bill to loosen gun regulations on Tuesday.

This bill is insane.

This legislature legalized hemp six years ago.

But instead of regulating this booming industry in our state, we are now going backwards to the days of prohibition.

There are a lot of self-proclaimed Christians pushing this voucher scam, but I can't think of anything more un-Christian than stealing from the poor to give to the rich.

(people clapping and cheering) - Thank you so much, Representative Talarico, for joining us.

What a session we just had, right?

- Yes.

- We're gonna get into policy matters in just a minute, but first let's talk about your aforementioned social media presence.

- Yeah.

- Your videos, they consistently get millions of views on TikTok.

That's kinda unique for a lawmaker these days.

Why was it important for you to be so active on social media?

- Well, you know, I was elected as the youngest member of the Texas Legislature, and I grew up on some of these social media platforms, and so I think I'm a native speaker of this language.

And, you know, I think it's helpful to reach people who aren't plugged into politics, right?

A lot of folks don't read a newspaper or watch a news program.

They get their news from social media, from TikTok or Instagram, for better or for worse.

And so I wanna meet people where they are and try to tell folks what's happening in their name at their state capitol.

And I've gotten a great response from folks who don't normally pay attention to all this stuff who are now getting good information about what's happening in their state government.

- What do you think about how your presence has seemingly blown up lately?

- Well, I think it reveals a hunger for information about politics, particularly the state and local level.

I also think people just wanna hear from elected officials who speak genuinely and authentically about what they believe and what they're fighting for.

So many political figures no longer speak like human beings, and it's just kind of talking points and poll tested and and consultant driven.

I just get up there and speak my mind and speak from the heart, and we put these videos online, and as you mentioned, they get a lot of traction, and I think that reveals a real hunger for a different kind of politics.

- Whether from a politician or a celebrity, people on social media really do crave hearing from people directly.

- Yes.

- Though is there a downside to that of being so active on social media?

Do you get threats?

- You know, there's a lot more exposure because I'm usually the member of the legislature most folks can name, because, you know, they focus on national stuff and don't focus a lot on state government.

And so that exposure we try to use for good and channel that toward issues that need more attention and need more energy and more organizing.

And I think we've seen that on several key issues where our social media activity has mobilized people to make their voices heard, and then that shapes policy for the better at the capitol.

- And of course in Texas, going viral like this, all of these views, they don't always equate to success in elections or policy success.

Is that frustrating for you?

- Well, it's just one tool, right?

You still have to do all the other things.

You've gotta be on traditional media, you've got to be raising money, you've gotta be organizing volunteers and people, and then you've gotta be able to build relationships with colleagues in the capitol, both Democratic and Republican, to get stuff done.

And so I try to do all those things.

Social media is kind of one arrow in my quiver, but I use the rules when I need to, I use my relationships when I need to, all of it is in service to a larger goal, which is serving the people of Texas and making the state what it should be.

And that's something I'm honored to do every day, and social media is one part of it.

- Now let's talk about the intersection of faith and policy.

That's something you've been very vocal about.

You are an outspoken, devout Christian.

You are also a strong advocate for the separation of church and state.

- Yeah.

- But at the same time, you say your policy positions connect back to your faith.

How do you balance those?

Is it ever a contradiction?

- Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great question.

So my granddad was a Baptist preacher in South Texas, I still attend the same church where I was baptized when I was two years old up in Round Rock, and so my faith is everything to me.

I made the decision to go to seminary to study to become a minister myself one day.

And all of this informs what I do at the capitol, it's why I'm in public service, it's why I try to make life easier for my neighbors, which is what I'm called to do as a Christian.

And so I do that by trying to lower the cost of childcare, trying to lower the cost of prescription drugs, trying to fund our neighborhood public schools, reform our justice system.

You know, these are all the things I do to love my neighbor, which is exactly what I'm supposed to do as a believer.

And so, yes, all of that is shaped by my faith, but at the same time, as a Christian, I know that the separation of church and state in our United States Constitution is designed not just to protect the state but also protect the church.

It goes both ways.

And I, as a Christian, don't want the government usurping the role of the church.

I don't want politicians and bureaucrats teaching my faith.

I want pastors and Sunday school teachers to be teaching my faith.

So that sacred separation, that sacred boundary, is being eroded by the Republican majority in the state legislature, which continues to push these Christian nationalist bills that violate the separation of church and state in our First Amendment.

And so I feel like it's my obligation as a Christian to speak out against these perversions of my faith and these subversions of our democracy.

- And in a minute, I want to elaborate on what you brought up, the concept of Christian nationalism.

- Yeah.

- But first, some might say your faith-based point of view as a Democrat is at odds with conservatives who claim to support what they would call Christ-centered policy.

So two different perspectives- - Sure.

- Very different, both ostensibly based in Christianity, but they're polar opposites.

Why do you think that is?

- Well, you know, I have a lot of conservative Christian friends, conservative Christian family members, conservative Christian colleagues.

And having a dialogue between conservatives and progressives is a healthy thing.

It's been happening in our church since the very beginning, and that's something we should, you know, there's a good conversation between conserving what we have, protecting the traditions that we have and the institutions that we have, and also moving us forward and improving on things and building a better world.

Those two things don't have to be mutually exclusive, but they are a conversation, and it's one that I engage in regularly.

But what we can't do is say that one perspective is not really Christian or is not truly a part of the faith.

You can be a conservative Christian, you can be a progressive Christian, and both can belong to the same church and have a robust conversation about how to realize the kingdom of God on earth as it is in heaven.

- And it seems like conversations have been rather difficult- - (chuckles) Sure.

- These days, unfortunately.

And in other interviews, you've mentioned different types of Christian service, for example, volunteering at a food bank, feeding the poor, as compared to your work as a policymaker trying to dismantle systems that create poverty at scale.

So why did you choose that path and go into politics?

- Well, you know, I didn't go into politics at first.

I went into the classroom and became a public school teacher on the West Side of San Antonio, which is a beautiful, historic Mexican American neighborhood.

It's also one of the poorest zip codes in the entire state of Texas.

And so, you know, I served my students on the West Side and served their families and really saw the impacts of economic injustice up close and personal.

And that experience is what motivated me to then run for office, because I saw students slipping through the cracks, I saw teachers driving Ubers at night to make extra money, I saw teachers selling their own blood plasma to make ends meet.

And I knew that was wrong, and my faith calls me to address those injustices.

And, you know, I saw firsthand what happens when the legislature underfunds public schools, I saw firsthand what happens when you don't have educators at the decision-making table helping to make policies that serve kids and families.

And so I decided to put my hat in the ring for the State House, and I was 28 years old, had never run for anything before, and I ran on being an educator and addressing the school finance crisis, which we still have today, even though we've made some progress.

And all of that, again, is rooted in my faith in the call to love my neighbor as myself.

- And now I wanna go back to what we were talking about before and talk about Christian nationalism.

- Yeah.

- You've been very vocal warning about that.

So can you explain what is it exactly and why do you feel it's so dangerous?

- Yeah, a lot of people probably heard this new phrase, Christian nationalism, and have maybe seen some of the rhetoric or some of the bills that have been put forward.

Bills like the one that would force every teacher in Texas to post the Ten Commandments in their classroom, the bill that will replace school counselors with untrained religious chaplains, the bill that is defunding public schools to use public money to subsidize private Christian schools.

These are all part of a movement called Christian nationalism.

And so you ask, "What is that?"

I think there's lots of different ways to define it.

The way I define it is it is the worship of power, economic power, social power, political power, in the name of Christ.

And in my view, it is a betrayal of Jesus of Nazareth, who was always very clear about being suspicious of government power.

You know, there's a story in the New Testament where the devil tempts Jesus out in the wilderness.

And one of the things the devil offers is political power, all the kingdoms of the world, and Jesus rejects it.

Throughout the gospels, Jesus is constantly warning His disciples about the dangers of using power to force your will on other people, and that's exactly what these bills do.

Instead of living out the love of Jesus in our lives, we are now forcing people by mandate to believe what we believe.

Instead of leading by example, we're leading by force.

And to me, that is not only unconstitutional, it's not only un-American, but it's also deeply un-Christian.

And so that's why I've been speaking out against this Christian nationalist movement, 'cause I don't think there's anything Christian about it.

- You brought up specifically the Ten Commandments bill, and no doubt the debate over this Ten Commandments bill this session was very lively.

We actually have a snippet of your questions and answers portion with the bill sponsor.

This got more than 11 million views on TikTok.

We're gonna take a look.

- Okay.

And so part of keeping the Sabbath holy is not working on the Sabbath.

- That is, that is, yeah, a day of rest.

- And what is the...

The Ten Commandments come from Judaism.

What day is the Jewish Sabbath?

- [Candy] It is on Saturday.

- And what day is it today?

- [Candy] It is Saturday.

Here we are- - The Christian Sabbath is what day?

- Sunday, in honor of the day that Jesus rose from the dead.

- And we're scheduled to give this bill a final vote on what day of the week?

- It's ironic, isn't it?

- Would you be willing to postpone your bill so that we're not breaking the Ten Commandments (people laughing) by working on the Jewish (people clapping) or Christian Sabbath?

- Late last week, a federal appeals court blocked Louisiana's version of this Ten Commandments bill, calling it, quote, "plainly unconstitutional."

What's your reaction to that, and how similar is the Texas law?

- Well, let me clarify something, because in the Texas education standards, teachers are required to teach students about the Bible as well as other major world religions, and that's important.

Our students have to be exposed to Christianity, to Judaism and Islam and Buddhism, because these world religions shape everything about our culture, our history, our economy.

You know, it's an increasingly global world, and students have to be exposed to these faith traditions.

So I'm not against talking about or teaching religion in public schools.

That's something we already do, it's something we should continue to do.

What I'm against is using government power to elevate one of those faith traditions over all the others, to preach instead of teach, right?

I told you I was a former teacher, also the grandson of a preacher, seminary student.

I know the difference between teaching and preaching.

There's a very important line between those two things.

Preaching is done in a church, or in a mosque, or in a synagogue or a temple.

Teaching is done in a school.

And we've gotta be very important not to mix those things.

And so this bill, this Ten commandments bill, takes one religious tradition, the Judeo-Christian tradition, and elevates that above Hinduism and Buddhism and Sikhism.

And why I worry is that not only does that violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, which prohibits the government from establishing a state religion, but as a Christian, I always think about the outcasts, the outsiders, the people who are left out, that's what Jesus calls me to do.

And so I worry about the Muslim student, the Buddhist student, the atheist student, who now feel that they are no longer part of the classroom community because a bunch of politicians are forcing their teacher to put up a poster in the front of the classroom, and we are forcing those teachers through other bills to teach Christian Bible stories as the one and only truth to our students in a public school setting.

You know, atheist parents and Hindu parents and Buddhist parents, they pay taxes too for these schools, and so we need to include them and we need to love them as we love ourselves, because as Christians, that's exactly what we're called to do.

And forcing our religion down their throats is not love, and that's why I spoke so passionately against this Ten Commandments bill.

- What do you think is driving this kind of policymaking lately?

- I always say follow the money.

In politics, you have to look at where the billionaire mega donors are pushing our elected officials.

And in Texas, increasingly, our state government is controlled by two West Texas billionaires, which many folks have heard about, Tim Dunn and Farris Wilks.

They are the biggest donors in the state.

They increasingly control our state policymaking.

They have bought every member of the Republican majority in the Senate.

They've bought most of the Republicans in the State House, and they are pushing their agenda onto the people of Texas.

Why this connects to your previous question is because Dunn and Wilks are not just billionaire mega donors, they are also Christian nationalist pastors.

I know billionaire pastors sounds like a oxymoron, but on Sunday mornings, these two billionaires are preaching at these extremist churches where they say that climate change is God's will, they say homosexuality is the same thing as bestiality, they believe that only Christians have a right to serve in public office.

In fact, Tim Dunn and Farris Wilks told the former Republican speaker of the Texas House, a guy named Joe Straus, that he didn't have a right to be speaker because he's Jewish.

These are the extremists who are controlling what's happening in our state government.

So, folks have gotta wake up, do their own research, don't just take my word for it.

"Texas Monthly" and a lot of investigative journalists around the state have done deep dives on Tim Dunn and Farris Wilks.

And I encourage your viewers to also do their own research and know who is funding some of these extremist policies that are coming through the capitol.

- And expounding more on public education, we talked about this a little bit, you're a former teacher- - Yeah.

- And your opposition to public school vouchers is, it's very well known.

- Yes.

- But I wanna show our viewers a comment you made about the proposed, quote, unquote, "FURRIES bill" that would ban, quote, "non-human behaviors in public schools."

Let's take a look.

- My concern is that instead of holding a hearing about student mental health, instead of holding a hearing about school closures across Texas, we are spending precious legislative time toward the end of this legislative session on a bill called the FURRIES Act.

And honestly, Representative Gerdes, this whole thing is just weird and honestly a little creepy.

And I think that's the point, because this is all, in my opinion, a manufactured, debunked smear campaign against our Texas public schools.

- You mentioned a broader effort to undermine public schools.

What do you mean by that, and what evidence do you see of that?

- These billionaires know that Texans love their public schools, right?

Public education is enshrined in our state's constitution.

There is nothing more Texan than "Friday Night Lights," right?

I mean, schools bring us together all over the state.

And so if they wanna dismantle public education, right, if their vision is to build a theocracy, then free, well-funded public schools that teach the next generation how to think for themselves, that's an obstacle in their way.

It's why they've attacked public education at every turn, to undermine trust in our local schools, in our local teachers, in our local librarians.

It's why they push things like book bans, saying that there's pornography in our libraries.

It's why they call teachers indoctrinators and try to silence teachers in what they can teach in the classroom.

And it's why they push things like the FURRIES bill.

I mean, it seems ridiculous, and we can laugh about it, but it is a deliberate attempt to undermine the public's trust in public schools.

And so they say that teachers are giving litter boxes to kids when there's no documented instance of that happening in Texas.

- And now let's segue to talk about your future plans in politics.

Here's a comment you made during the 2024 political season.

- On January 6th, Ted Cruz plotted to overturn the 2020 election and fanned the flames of insurrection.

During the blackout that killed 700 of our fellow Texans, Ted Cruz hopped on a flight to Cancun, leaving his constituents and his own dog to shiver in the dark.

(people laughing) And when Donald Trump called his wife ugly, Ted Cruz endorsed him anyway.

- Yeah!

- If Ted Cruz will abandon his wife, his dog, and his country, what makes you think he won't abandon you?

(people clapping and cheering) - You didn't mince words, and you definitely sound like someone who is not afraid to challenge a U.S. senator.

Do you see a candidacy in your future, whether against Ted Cruz later on or next year against either Ken Paxton or John Cornyn?

- Well, I'm having conversations right now with my constituents, with my colleagues, with folks around the state about how I can best serve, and that does include the U.S. Senate race next year.

I think Ken Paxton is the most corrupt politician in our state.

I think he is a puppet of Tim Dunn and Farris Wilks.

I think he will take their extreme agenda, which they've already implemented here in Texas, banning abortion, banning books, closing schools, he's gonna take that national, he's gonna take that to the entire country.

And so I do think we have a special obligation as Texans to stop that from happening, to stop this virus from getting out of the lab, and I think that's why the Senate race is so important and why we've gotta have a fighter leading our party and our state into this important battle next year.

But I'm gonna continue having those conversations over the next few weeks and seeing how best I can serve and be a part of this fight in the months ahead.

- You're considered the next big thing in Democratic Party circles, and people have compared your journey to that of fellow Democrat Beto O'Rourke, popular nationally but unsuccessful in statewide elections.

And I know you advised him in his governor's race.

Do those comparisons concern you as you consider your political future, especially since you didn't say no to maybe running for Senate?

- Well, you know, I think Congressman O'Rourke got closer than any Democrat in 30 years here in Texas and has mobilized and excited people across the state, not just Democrats, but independents and some disaffected Republicans too.

And so, you know, I think he's done so much good for our state and proud to call him a friend.

And, you know, I hope going forward that I'm able to figure out how I can best be a part of this fight.

Obviously, I'm different from Beto, different from a lot of my colleagues who I admire and respect.

I've gotta figure out what is the best way that I can contribute, what is the best way I can serve the people of this state?

'Cause that's why I'm doing this.

There are easier jobs that I could be doing that have less pressure and less incoming.

But I do this because I believe in public service and I believe it is my job and my duty to serve my neighbors, and that's the best way I know how to do that.

So we'll see where that leads and where it goes, but right now, I'm having conversations with people I trust and respect and doing a lot of praying about what the best way forward for me is.

- You're currently seeking a master's in divinity from Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Do you see yourself one day ever having to choose between a career as a minister or as a politician?

- Well, my ultimate dream is to become a pastor and lead a church.

I would love to lead my home church that I grew up in one day.

I do think public service is important.

I think everyone should be doing some kind of public service at some point in their lives, whether it is as a classroom teacher, whether it's as a member of the armed forces, whether it's as a nurse or a journalist, right?

This is a form of service to our neighbors.

But I don't wanna do this for the rest of my life.

I think there's a real problem with career politicians who are serving into their 80s or their 90s in some instances.

I wanna do this as long as I'm effective.

But once there's a new generation who can do this with more energy and who can do this better than I can, I'm ready to step aside and be able to devote myself full-time to ministry.

That's where I see my career headed.

I don't wanna be in politics forever.

And one day, I do wanna go full-time into the ministry.

- And let's end with this.

After this interview, what do people who don't know you, what do you wish they knew about you?

- That's a great question.

You know, I think people forget that politicians are human beings and have interests and passions and concerns like everybody else.

And, you know, the reason that I get up every day and go into battle at the state capitol is for my former students, the kids that I taught on the West Side of San Antonio.

They are oftentimes the first thing I think about when I walk into that beautiful pink dome downtown, and they're oftentimes the last thing I think about when I walk to the parking lot at the end of a long day and when I get in my truck and drive away from the capitol.

And so that is my motivation for doing this, is my students and students just like them.

And I'm gonna keep fighting for those kids as long as I can, as long as I'm effective at it, and I hope to have people's support in this fight in whatever way and whatever shape it takes in the months and years to come.

- Well, James Talarico, District 50 state representative, thank you so much for speaking with us and answering our questions today, and we will definitely be watching your political moves, especially as it pertains to the Senate in the coming years.

- Well, thank you for having me, it's an honor.

(calming music) (calming music continues) - The Texas Senate race already starting to heat up, and I know we'll be watching what Talarico's ultimate decision is.

Thanks so much for watching.

We'll share this interview online in the Austin PBS YouTube channel, and you can catch up on full episodes of "Austin InSight" in the PBS app.

We're taking a two-week break for summer, but we're back on July 17th with a look at the new policy on tuition costs for undocumented college students in Texas.

We'll see you then.

(bright music) (bright music continues) - [Announcer] Support for "Austin InSight" comes from Sally and James Gavin, and also from Suerte, Este, and Bar Toti restaurants, bringing Austin together around culinary excellence to celebrate creativity, conservation, and culture in Central Texas.

(lively flute music)