[lounge music] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - The best response you can have to a payoff in a thriller is someone goes, "Oh, right, I forgot, of course..." [multiple voices chattering] [Narrator] On Story offers a look inside the creative process from today's leading writers, creators, and filmmakers.

All of our content is recorded live at Austin Film Festival and our year-round events.

To view previous episodes, visit OnStory.tv.

[projector clicking] [typing] [typewriter ding] [projector dies] [Narrator] On Story is brought to you in part by the Alice Kleberg Reynolds Foundation, a Texas family providing innovative funding since 1979.

[waves] [kids screaming] [wind] [witch cackling] [sirens wail] [gunshots] [dripping] [suspenseful music] [telegraph beeping, typing] [piano gliss] From Austin Film Festival, this is On Story .

A look inside the creative process from today's leading writers, creators, and filmmakers.

[paper rips] This week's On Story , legendary writer, director, producer, actor, and comedian, Robert Townsend.

- The main collaborator that I've worked with, we never go for easy.

We always push each other.

We've always - whatever we've done, we always go, "That's just too easy."

Because we started as comedians, it's like cheap jokes are cheap jokes.

So, I'm always looking for what's the twist, what's another twist, what's another twist, what's another twist, what's another twist.

And so I think, as a writer, I never try to go for the easy.

[paper crumples] [typing] [typewriter ding] [Narrator] In this episode, Robert Townsend discusses his multifaceted and successful career in front of, and behind, the camera.

[typewriter ding] - You know when I was a kid, I grew up in a really rough neighborhood on the west side of Chicago.

And, so, when I was ten years old, my mother was, like, she was nervous that I was gonna get recruited by one of the gangs.

So, there was the Disciples, the Executioners, the Sinister Six, the Vice Lords, all these gangs.

And, so, I would run in the house and all I did was watch TV.

And, so, I watched so much TV that they nicknamed me, "TV Guide."

You know, that was my nickname, it was, like, "TV Guide, what's on tonight?"

"Uh, seven o'clock, I Love Lucy .

"Uh, nine-thirty, Mannix .

Uh, ABC got a better line up than NBC."

And, so, I watched everything on television.

And, there was a time that television went off.

I mean, like, in the olden days.

Like, now... you know, there was a time TV went off.

This generation, it's on all the time.

But, when television went off, if you missed a show, you just missed a show, there was no reruns, there was no DVDs, there was no digital downloads.

So, my mother, we were on welfare and, so, my mother was looking for work and she would miss her shows.

And, so, she was, like, "Oh, I missed the Hitchcock show, what happened?"

And, I was, like, "He said this, momma, [Hitchcock impression] "They found the body in the attic and discovered that murder does not work."

[audience laughs] And, so, I discovered that I could do any character I saw on television.

So, if it was The Wizard of Oz , and the movie came on, I'd the Scarecrow.

[impression] "Why, I'd never gotten "my brains if it wasn't for you!

Why, the square root of one is equal to the pi root of two!"

The westerns, uh, Walter Brennan.

[impression] "Well, dagnabbit, [mumbles]!"

[audience laughs] I watched everything on television, even the foreign French films, [quickly speaks foreign language].

"Woman, why is your [bleep] trippin?"

[audience laughs] But, I got discovered in fifth grade, 'cause there was a white teacher that wanted kids in the 'hood to learn about Shakespeare, and, his name was James Reed.

And, he wanted us, in fifth grade, to read three pages of Shakespeare.

And, so, what happened was, I didn't like reading and Shakespeare looked really hard to me.

So, I went to the library and, being a kid from the 'hood, I stole all the Shakespeare records.

[chuckles] [audience laughs] And, so, I went home and I listened to them on our stereo, Richard III, King Lear, Othello.

And, when it came time to read, the teacher wanted us to read and he said, "We're gonna read it out loud."

And, so he said, "Deborah Jenkins... "we're gonna read Oedipus today.

"Deborah Jenkins, you'll be Ophelia.

"Willie, you're gonna be Oedipus.

"And, Robert Townsend, you're gonna be Tiresias, the blind prophet, let's read."

Deborah read like a kid normally would read in the 'hood.

"Ed-a-piss, [audience laughs] you will marry that mother and kill-ith thy father, thus-lee, Ed-a-piss."

And, I had been listening to the Royal Shakespeare Company, so I read it, like, [British accent] "Oedipus, I pray not the rains upon thy soul!"

And, the whole class, like, "Woooh!

This [bleep] crazy."

[audience laughs] And, so, that's kinda how I started as TV Guide.

[typewriter ding] I was the youngest member of EXBAG, in Chicago.

It was the Experimental Black Actors Guild and I started in the theater there when I was 14.

So, I was the youngest member, but, I fell in love with theater because of my TV Guide guy experience.

That's when I saw other people of color writing, directing, producing and it kinda started to plant seeds in me.

[Moderator] You moved to New York to do stand up.

- Yes... with that man, back there, Keenen Ivory Wayans.

[audience applauds and cheers] - I wanna ask you what those club days were like.

And, you actually got a SNL audition in 1980, right?

- You know, New York was a crazy time because, I was talking about this before, at the Improv, back then, it was Robin Williams, it was Rodney Dangerfield, it was Billy Crystal, Jay Leno was the emcee... Andy Kaufman.

And, we were two comedians on line, trying to audition to get into the Improv.

The one routine that I had, back then, was the Shakespeare routine.

Like, Joe Papp, the famous theater producer in New York City, had done an all-black version of Julius Caesar .

And, when I went to the show, 'cause I just love theater, some of the people had the language down and some of the people just sounded like they just walked in off the street.

And, so, I created this whole routine about Shakespeare and that became my first routine.

But, Keenan was the first one to say, "Hey, Rob, this is how to play the game."

- And, you got an SNL audition... - Oh, well, what happened was, back then, Keenan first told me about Eddie Murphy.

'Cause, he was, like, Eddie was working the clubs and he says, "There's this comedian, Eddie Murphy, that is really funny, got characters and everything."

And, then, there was the big Saturday Night Live audition.

And, so, I didn't know how close I was to getting Saturday Night Live and I had an audition call-back, they kept me there for hours and hours.

And, then, I didn't get it, it was just another audition.

And, then, everybody was, like, "This new kid, Eddie Murphy," and, then I was, like, "Oh, that's who you were telling me about."

And, he blew up.

I didn't know I was part of the history until it came out years later.

[typewriter ding] Let me tell you something about Keenan.

He wanted to see what my character was like, so when I went to visit him in the Projects, he had his boys gonna rob me to see if I was gonna run, or what I was gonna do.

[audience laughs] True story, true story, but, anyway... Keenan, that's the kinda friend he is.

[audience laughs] He was, like, "I saw how you handled that, man, I'm really proud.

"You can really be my friend now."

"I sent them down; I sent Willie and Fruity and BoBo to rob your [bleep] and you outsmarted them."

[audience laughs] So, he's the one who got me to L.A.

So, I was still in New York, happy in New York, doing TV commercials.

And, I was doing some theater with Woodie King.

You know, theater, plays and I was, like, serious auteur.

And, then, when Keenan called and said, "Man, Rob, you gotta get out here."

And, he was, like, "You gotta get out here, I'll fly back and we'll drive your stuff."

That's what really happened and that's how I got to L.A. - And, your auditioning out there and you're getting things, but, they're not soul satisfying.

- You know, I was having really, really bad auditions.

I mean, the turn to become filmmaker started because I was having bad auditions, he's having bad auditions.

I was auditioning for slaves and the audition for the basketball player that can't read.

You know, all the stereotypes.

[comically crying] "Willie went to the house..." [audience laughs] The dude stealing the TV, you know...

The dude in the interrogation roundup was always my favorite.

The dude was so smart, "Yeah, the dude you lookin' for, he on the third floor, man."

[audience laughs] "Yeah, Kojack... Yeah, Ironside... Yeah, Huggy... [audience laughs] And, it would always be, and I was, like, this dude has only eight, he's, like, say "I know everything," and he'd be always in a pool hall.

Dude'd be in the pool hall, "Yeah, man.

Dude you lookin' for, yeah, you lookin' for Little Smitty."

[audience laughs] "Yeah, Little Smitty did the whole thing!

You want some stock tips?"

[audience laughs] If he knows so much, what the hell is he doing, you know?

- That guy is still on TV, by the way.

- And, then, I think Hollywood Shuffle , I think Hollywood Shuffle started because I had one of the really, well, we would always share stories on how bad our auditions were.

But, I had this one audition where there was this white director from England and he was doing a black exploitation movie.

And, he was trying to tell me how to be black.

[British accent] "No, no, no, it's all wrong, it's all wrong, it's all wrong!"

[audience laughs] "You're a bad Mo-Fo."

"Let me see it in your walk... jive, jive."

[audience laughs] - And, I just remember being humiliated.

'Cause he, it was one of those auditions, [British accent] "Stick your butt out, stick your butt out.

"You know, it's in your walk, stick it out, stick it out.

Can you make your lips bigger?"

And, I was, like -- You know, you're a whore, as an actor, sometimes, you try and sell out.

So, you're, like, "How big do you want them?"

[audience laughs] And, I think, out of that, with all these bad auditions and everything, I think that's when we were both dying, as artists.

And, then, that's when I said to Keenan, "We should make our own movies," and that's how it started.

[typewriter ding] - What's the line?

- I ain't me got no weapon.

- [grunts] I ain't me got no weapon.

[Movie Narrator] My film's about making it as an actor in Hollywood."

- Only role they gonna let us do is a slave or butler, or some street hood, or something.

Don't sell out, brother.

- Oh, the Promised Land, Minnesota?

[Movie Narrator] But, the real trick is finding a juicy role when the odds are against you.

- Good luck, brother.

- Now, was Hollywood Shuffle the first thing you wrote?

- No, we wrote a picture about a haunted house, that was the first thing we wrote.

And, then, because of all these bad experiences... All the [bleep] in Hollywood Shuffle was real and Kennan was, like, "Let's write it down."

And, I had saved $60,000, 'cause I had done Streets of Fire , I had done American Flyers , with Kevin Costner, and I had saved $60,000.

And, everybody was, like, "Are you gonna get a Porsche, are you gonna get a Jag?"

You know, "Are you gonna buy a car?"

And, that's when I said to Keenan, "Let's make a movie!"

And, Keenan was, like, "You didn't go to film school, "you never did this, Rob.

"You don't know any of this, but, because we two boys from the 'hood, we can do anything."

And, that's when we started to shoot what would be Hollywood Shuffle .

- When you guys were putting it together, was the story there first or were the sketches there first?

Which part came first?

- It was just four sketches... Black Acting School was something that we just came up with and we just thought it was funny, to us.

[Moderator] It is, it still is.

- You know, we were just, like [chuckles] because, you'd have white producers, [white impression] "No, no, say, "Hey, Mama how's it goin'?"

[audience laughs] And, they would tell us how to do it and, so, we just incorporated all that in there.

[British accent] That's only the beginning!

You, too, can learn to walk black.

- No, no, no, no, no rhythm, observe.

[lively 80s music] - Yes, yes, yes!

You, too, can be a black street hood.

But, this class is for dark skinned blacks, only.

Light skin or yellow blacks don't make good crooks.

Then, we did Sneakin' In The Movies because, when they would review a black movie, they always gave it a bad review.

And, I'm, like going, we would always say, "They need different people to review."

Like, they gave Cooley High a bad review and I was, like, " Cooley High is a great movie."

Or, Claudine , a bad review.

And, so, then, we were, like, "We need our own critics."

And, then, let's have fun with it, turn it upside down on its head.

So, we had done those four vignettes and, then, you had make me think about how we would write, talk about Hollywood Shuffle , because Keenan, he's in great shape, he's a fitness guy.

So, it was really hard to write with him because Keenan would be, like, "She comes through the door, and then, when she comes through the door..." And, I'm, like, "Dude, sit down."

"No, man, it's how I write," he's doing push ups, running around the room, jogging and that's how he thinks.

Like the Odd Couple, it would drive me crazy.

Like, "Man, just sit your [bleep] down," but, [audience laughs] That's how we started and then we said, "Okay, we got the four vignettes."

Vignettes came out great and then we had to sit and think through real stuff to connect the fibers, like, the story of Bobby Taylor.

And, that's when we started to really get into learning about being writers, and structure, and all of that.

- You finished the film, it's edited, Samuel Goldwyn Pictures snatches it up, how does that happen?

How does that hustle happen?

- You know what, I think, as we were making the movie, it was funny to us.

It was funny to us; me and Keenan were just laughing and we didn't give a [bleep] if nobody else liked it.

But, you know, the Jheri curl stuff, the sneaking in the movies, you know, we would sit and work on it and it would make us laugh.

And, so, we were like, "We got good sense of humor, we think this is funny."

And, I just remember, when we showed it to the Samuel Goldwyn company, we weren't nervous, it was just, like, "Okay, I spent $40,000 on my credit cards.

"Either I gotta get another job, I gotta hustle, whatever, I'm gonna pay it off."

But, the beautiful thing was, when we showed it to Sam Goldwyn... Sam Goldwyn, white man, at that time he was in his late 50s early 60s.

He looked at the movie and what he could understand, he laughed at.

But, then, he said something really smart.

We were watching the screening of the film and he goes, [old man impression] "I don't know what a Jheri curl is, but, that's gonna work."

[audience laughs] "I don't know what a Jheri curl is, but, that's gonna work."

[audience laughs] And, he didn't touch the film and then the film comes out and it just goes through the roof.

And, it was just, like, freakin' amazing.

[typewriter ding] - In life, you gotta be careful who you share your dreams with.

And, my grandmother was the biggest hater in my life.

Like, when I said... no, true, that's why she's in Hollywood Shuffle .

She goes -- [Moderator] Helen Martin?

- Yeah, Helen Martin.

So, in real life, my grandmother was very negative.

You know, like, I would say, "Hey, I wanna be an actor, I wanna pursue..." She goes, like, "What do you know about acting?

What do you know about anything about show business?"

It's, like, for everybody in this room, right now, it's when you leave here, who is the person that has access to your cell phone that goes, "When are you gonna give up this dream "of being a writer or director or producer?

"You know, your brother's a doctor, your sister's a lawyer.

When are you gonna give up?"

And, you got those uncomfortable Thanksgivings and those uncomfortable holidays.

And, I learned to not share my dreams and, so, I put a message in the film to say, somebody that didn't live their dream.

- Now, don't get me wrong, I am happy for Bobby.

But, I don't want no grandson of mine out there trying to act like a street hustler.

Black folks got enough negative images without my grandson out there adding to that mindless [bleep], out there.

- Mama!

- Yes, I said it, [bleep].

- Quiet, that boy gonna hear you.

- I don't care!

- We need the dreamers, we need people, we need people with vision, people that are artists... to be born!

[audience applauds] [typewriter ding] - Meteor Man's in town!

[explosion] - Whoa!

[explosion] [bullets ricochet] [laser noise, woman yells] [explosion] [breaks squeal, crash] [exciting music] [Movie Narrator] He's come to save the world, one neighborhood at a time.

- Meteor Man!

- My nephew was a little, I was living in L.A. and I would go to Chicago, and he had to be, like, five or six, and it was around, not Thanksgiving, it was close to Halloween.

And, I was just being an uncle, like, going, "Who you gonna be for Halloween?"

You know, "You wanna be Superman, Spider-Man?"

And, he says, "I can't be them 'cause their white."

And, I was, like, he was so aware... Like, little kids and...

I never watched television or movies with prejudice eye, I loved everybody I saw.

I was just, like, "I love acting, I love directing, I love producing."

You know, I watched different things.

And, so, when he said that, it really messed me up.

So, then, when I went back to L.A., I said, "You know what, I want my next movie to be about a superhero.

I'm gonna create a superhero and I want the real theme of the movie to be about you have courage inside of you, it's not really about super powers and all of that, but, he's gonna have super powers.

And, then, I just started thinking about, I watched all these superhero movies and said, "I'm gonna do different things that will be different in the movie."

And, so, one of the first things I did, was I said, "Superman flies high," everybody flies high.

And, so when Meteor Man, I gave him, he's scared of heights and, so, he only flies four feet off the ground.

And, so, you see this guy flying, he's, like, four feet off the ground.

Kicking [bleep], four feet off the ground, until he gets courage to go to the highest, next level.

[dramatic music] [Woman] Where is he?

- There he is.

[heroic music] [Boy] I'll be glad when he get over his fear of heights!

[Woman] He will, he will!

- And, part of it was, like, growing up on Danny Kaye movies, like, the Court Jester and... "The pestle is the thestle from the thestle is the vessel."

And, I used to love all that silliness and I said, "Okay, I'm going to add elements of that as I create this world."

And, then, I called every celebrity I knew, from Luther Vandross to all the hottest groups back then, Naughty By Nature, you know what I mean?

But, I had the best time, but, I just wanted to do something different and create something I thought was special.

And, people still love the film, to this day.

- Yeah, absolutely.

[audience applauds] - One of my favorite parts about Meteor Man is that his power wanes from time to time, but, he still has to kind of bluff his way through those moments.

[karate yell] [intense music] - 30 seconds, dang!

- Come on!

Come on.

I got him, Brody, I got him.

[electricity noise] [to himself] Runway modeling?

- Well, see, what I wanted to do was, it's, like, there's no real superheroes, but, with Meteor Man, he got a chance to live in another altitude with his powers.

But, I really wanted to drive home the message of that, the courage, for everybody in life, is inside of you.

You just gotta really, sometimes, fight through it.

I think that's a lesson in show business, that's a lesson in relationship, in life, job, whatever.

But, it's, like, to always have courage.

[typewriter ding] Once I finished Hollywood Shuffle , I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next.

Keenan and I started bouncing off ideas.

I was, like, "Hey, what about a singing group?"

And, um... 'Cause I was always fascinated about The Temptations .

When they broke up, I was, like, "They were the baddest group of all time, what happened?

"Did they have love in their lives, did they not have love in their lives, what happened?"

And, so, when we started to write the movie, we went through, I wanna say, like, 25 different drafts.

And, things would happen that would shape the story or change the story or we get into it.

Like, for example, so, there's a scene in the movie where Duck hasn't seen his brother, J.T., and then he goes to the park and then Keenan and I were battling in the room one day and it was, like, he can't say, "Hey, man, I miss you, man.

"Haven't seen you, what you doing in the park?

What's happenin'?"

And, you know, and we were, like, "Aw, that [bleep] corny, that's corny, that's corny."

And, I just remember, we were at a stand still and when, we have a brilliant moment as writers, just like as comedians, we don't go, like, "[laughs] ha, ha, ha, that [bleep] funny!"

We go, "[monotone] That's funny.

Oh, that [bleep] funny, oh, that works."

And, I remember, we were stuck, we were stuck.

And, it was, like, okay, it's gonna be corny to go, like, "Hey, J.T., I'm here, man."

"Hey, Duck, what up, dude?"

And, so, it was awkward, it was awkward.

And, I just remember, we couldn't find the beat, the beat, the beat.

We couldn't find the beat and it was horrible.

And, then, Keenan was, like, "Let's give him a kid.

"Let's give him two kids.

"Let's pay off the beat that we set up, that says, "Whoever has a kid first, give him kids and then, name the kid Duck."

And, we both went, like, "Oh, damn, the kid's name is Duck.

Oh, damn."

[child giggles] - Oh, yeah.

[emotional music] [Child] Daddy, who's that?

- Yeah, go play with your aunt.

- Duck, you heard what Daddy said.

Would you get over here, Duck?

[emotional music] [Robert] The light bulb went off and, then, as we started to put it together, we knew the moment worked but, part of the process to find the unique stuff is to get in there and not go for the obvious.

You know, like, writing is rewriting.

[typewriter ding] When Keenan and I really started, the beautiful thing was, we were two poor, poor, poor kids that, we only had a pocket full of dreams.

That's all we really had, was a pocket full of dreams.

And, so, to be here and to continue to create projects, it worked.

It was, like, we worked hard, nobody gave us nothing.

Nobody gave us nothing.

It was, like, he's hustling, I'm hustling.

So, when I look at this room and I go, like, "Well, who's gonna be born?

"Who will be born, in this room?

"Is this the next generation of writers, directors, producers that will take over, that will create?"

Robert Rodriguez is there, he's created his own niche, right here in Austin.

So, who's gonna take the ball and move it to the next level?

Part of the dance is gonna be, the only thing that's gonna stop anybody from being born, fear.

'Cause people, you know, and let me say this, everybody's afraid that somebody's gonna say, "This [bleep] sucks, this is some [bleep]," that's what everybody's afraid of.

And, let me say something, it doesn't really matter.

It really doesn't.

The secret of the game, okay, I'll give a perfect example, Holiday Heart , alright?

Directed Ving Rhames, Alfre Woodard, the reviews come out.

The Hollywood Reporter says, "It's the best movie of the year, for television."

The DramaLog or the Wall Street Journal said, "It's the worst movie of the year."

So, the head of the studio, Jerry Offsay calls for me and he says, "Did you read the reviews?"

And, I go, "Yeah, man... some people loved the movie, some people..." He says, "That's really the key of life."

"Can you just enjoy the ride, did you do everything you could and are you happy with the work you did?"

And, that's all, really, that matters.

All the other stuff is, people having an opinion.

[typewriter ding] [Narrator] You've been watching a conversation with Robert Townsend on On Story .

On Story is part of a growing number of programs in Austin Film Festival's On Story project including the On Story PBS series now streaming online, the On Story radio program and podcast in collaboration with Public Radio International and the On Story book series available on Amazon.

To find out more about On Story and Austin Film Festival visit OnStory.tv or AustinFilmFestival.com.

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