>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," A VACCINATION MANDATE FOR HEALTH CARE WORKERS TAKES EFFECT THIS WEEKEND.

HOW WILL IT IMPACT THE INDUSTRY?

PLUS, ANOTHER CANDIDATE LANDS A RUN FOR GOVERNOR -- PLANS A RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

WE WILL TELL YOU WHO IT IS.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

>> JOINING US ON THE PANEL, T ARGET 12 INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER TIM WHITE, A BROWN UNIVERSITY POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, AND A FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE.

WELCOME, EVERYONE.

WE APPRECIATE ANY PART -- YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

THE GOVERNORS DEADLINE FOR HEALTH-CARE WORKERS TO GET VACCINATED HAS ARRIVED, ALTHOUGH IT'S A RELATIVELY SMALL PERCENTAGE WHO HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO GET THE SHOT.

SOME FEAR IT COULD EXACERBATE AN ALREADY STRAINED WORKFORCE.

LET'S START WITH THE MANDATE AND COULD WE SEE A SURGE COMING IN THE FALL.

THE GOVERNOR HAS HELD THE LINE ON THIS.

>> YOU ALSO SEE THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK STATE GRAPPLING WITH THIS RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S A LOT OF HEALTH CARE WORKERS WHO SAY, YOU CAN FIRE ME.

SOMEDAY YOU WILL PROBABLY CALL ME BACK.

WE KNOW THE UNEMPLOYMENT SUBSIDY FOR COVID IS OVER, SO IT'S REGULAR UNEMPLOYMENT.

IT'S NOT THE EXTRA SUBSIDY.

>> YOU CAN'T GET UNEMPLOYMENT IF YOU REFUSE THE VACCINATION.

>> THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.

I THINK IT'S A TOUGH SITUATION.

YOU STRUGGLE WITH SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT OR PRIVATE BUSINESS FORCE YOU TO BE VACCINATED, BUT WE DO HAVE A PRESIDENT IN THIS COUNTRY -- PRECEDENT IN THIS COUNTRY.

IN SCHOOLS, YOU HAD TO HAVE THE RUBELLA MEASLES MUMPS SHOT.

I THINK THAT'S THE WAY IT'S GOING TO GO.

I FEEL FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE RELUCTANT ABOUT IT.

ON THE OTHER HAND THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS.

NOW WE ARE THINKING EVERYBODY HAS TO GET VACCINATED.

WE CAN'T DEFEAT COVID, WE CAN'T GET BACK TO LIFE AS WE KNEW IT.

>> I TEND TO AGREE WITH WENDI -- WENDY.

>> LET'S GET THIS ON TAPE.

THAT WON'T LAST.

>> WE ARE ALL CONCERNED ABOUT OUR PERSONAL RIGHTS BEING TAKEN AWAY, AND WHILE I BELIEVE FIRMLY THAT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GET THE VACCINE IF YOU DON'T WANT IT, I ALSO BELIEVE RIGHTS, NOW U HAVE TO EVALUATE IT.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, IF I GET SICK FROM SOME OTHER REASON, OTHER THAN THE FLU, AND I GO TO THE HOSPITAL, SHOULD I HAVE A REASONABLE EXPECTATION THAT THE GETTING COVID?

A REASONABLE EFFORT WOULD BE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PLACE ARE VACCINATED.

I AGREE WITH THE GOVERNOR.

I THINK THAT WE NEED A MANDATE AND WE NEED TO PUSH IT, IF SOMEBODY DOESN'T WANT TO GET IT, DON'T GET IT.

YOU COULD LOSE YOUR JOB.

WELL, YOU ARE MAKING A CONSCIOUS DECISION NOT TO GET IT.

THE ONLY OTHER PLACE I FEEL AS THOUGH MAYBE THEY SHOULD HAVE CONSIDERATION AS IF SOMEBODY ALREADY HAD COVID AND THEY ARE OVER IT.

I ALMOST THINK THAT -- AND THE JURY IS NOT OUT, WHO IS RIGHT AND WRONG.

>> WHETHER THE ANTIBODIES ARE ENOUGH.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOU ARE SOMEWHAT MORE PROTECTED THAN SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T, SO MAYBE THAT COULD BE AN EXCEPTION.

>> VACCINE MANDATES ARE WITHSTANDING LEGAL SCRUTINY RIGHT NOW,SO THE LAW SEEMS TO BE ON THEIR SIDE.

WE ARE HEARING A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT MAYBE THIS INCREASING THE STAFFING SHORTAGE AT HOSPITALS, BUT LET'S TAKE THE FLIP SIDE OF THE COIN.

IF THE GOVERNOR IN RHODE ISLAND AND THE GOVERNOR IN NEW YORK STATE HAD NOT DONE THIS VACCINE MANDATE AND THEN PEOPLE STARTED GETTING SICK IN HOSPITALS BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T ENFORCE VACCINES IN HEALTH CARE SETTING, THEY WOULD BE GETTING A LOT OF GRIEF FOR THAT AS WELL.

>> I READ THESE STORIES.

"THE JOURNAL" HAD A STORY ABOUT A NURSE WHO WORKED FOR 25 YEARS AND WAS ADAMANT AND WILLING TO LOSE HER JOB.

I TRY TO PUT MYSELF IN THAT PERSON'S SHOES.

WHY ARE YOU SO ADAMANT?

AS JOE SAID, IT'S A PERSONAL CHOICE.

THE GOVERNOR HAS MASSAGED IT A LITTLE BIT, THAT IF YOU ARE IN A CRITICAL CARE SETTING AND YOU ARE REALLY GOING TO BE HAMSTRUNG, WE CAN GIVE YOU A LITTLE TIME, BUT BEYOND THE 30 DAYS, NO.

>> WE HAVE ALL THE STORIES, AND THANKFULLY, IT IS STARTING TO SUBSIDE A LITTLE BIT IN THE SOUTH.

THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN DEVASTATING.

THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE DYING.

YOU NEED PEOPLE WHO HAVE -- YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO NEED HOSPITAL CARE WHO CAN'T GET IN THE ICU AND DIE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET IN CRITICAL CARE UNIT BECAUSE IT'S FULL OF COVID PATIENTS.

THE ONLY WAY TO GET THIS UNDER CONTROL IS TO HAVE EVERYBODY HAVE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF IMMUNITY.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IMMUNITY YOU HAVE ONCE YOU GET COVID AND RECOVER.

WE NEED A CRITICAL MASS OF EVERYBODY TO HAVETHIS SHOWS INE.

I HAVE A MANDATE FROM MY EMPLOYER TO BE VACCINATED.

I DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE.

THAT WAS IT.

THIS IS THE JOB I HAVE.

THESE ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

I GOT VACCINATED.

I FEEL FOR THIS WOMAN, BUT YOU ARE A NURSE AND YOU UNDERSTAND THE SCIENCE OF THIS AND YOU UNDERSTAND YOU NEED EVERYBODY TO BE VACCINATED IN A HEALTH CARE SETTING.

>> ONE OTHER AREA THAT'S FALLEN UNDER THE RADAR, AT LEAST IN MY MIND, BUT NOT FOR PARENTS, IS SCHOOLS.

YOU AND I HAD A TALK THE OTHER DAY BEFORE THIS.

MY KIDS ARE OUT OF SCHOOL.

YOU HAVE TWO RIGHT IN THE WHEELHOUSE.

IT SEEMS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS A YEAR AGO THAT, IF KIDS GET THE SNIFFLES, THE COUGH, WHATEVER, THEY ARE OUT, BUT THERE IS NOT THE OPTION FOR THE VIRTUAL ANYMORE.

>> SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE STATE WERE CAUGHT FLAT-FOOTED.

IRONICALLY, THE SCHOOLS WERE MORE PREPARED IN 2020 THAN 2021.

MY DAUGHTER ENTERED HIGH SCHOOL THIS YEAR.

SHE HAD A COLD.

WE WERE RESPONSIBLE PARENTS.

WE NOTIFY THE SCHOOL.

SHE HAD TO GO GET A TEST.

SHE IS VACCINATED.

SHE GOT A RAPID TEST, NEGATIVE.

BUT THEY WANT THE PCR.

BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF TESTING IN RHODE ISLAND, IT TOOK THREE DAYS TO GET THAT.

THAT MEANT THREE DAYS OF LOST LEARNING, BECAUSE THERE'S NO HYBRID OPTION GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S TRUE IN OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT AND MOST SCHOOL DISTRICT ACROSS THE STATE.

THE QUESTION IS, THESE ARE SCHOOL LEADERS AND STATE LEADERS -- WHY DIDN'T THEY LOOK INTO THIS MORE?

WE'RE HEARING THIS FROM A LOT OF PARENTS.

WHY AREN'T THEY DOING THIS LIKE OTHER STATES ARE DOING AND IMPLEMENTING THE TEST AND STATE POLICY?

-- STAY POLICY?

YOU DO THE TESTING FOR FIVE DAYS, AND YOU CAN STAY.

IT JUST SEEMS LIKE RHODE ISLAND WAS ILL-PREPARED.

>> YOU WONDER, TOO -- WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT PROVIDENCE HAS GOTTEN THE LION'S SHARE.

OVERALL, THEY BROUGHT THE COMMISSIONER INTO LOOK.

THE TEST SCORES ARE HORRIBLE.

YOU'VE HAD KIND OF A LOST YEAR.

YOU WONDER WHETHER THIS WILL BE ANOTHER LOST YEAR.

I HATE TO SAY THAT IN FRONT OF A PARENT.

YOU WONDER IF WE ARE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR ANOTHER HORRIBLE YEAR FOR THESE KIDS.

>> I THINK WE ARE.

TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE RUNNING SCARED OVER THIS VIRUS, NOT THAT IT'S NOT SERIOUS.

IT IS SERIOUS.

BUT IF YOU ARE VACCINATED, IF YOU GET IT, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE FROM IT, AT LEAST IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE.

I THINK TO SOME EXTENT WE NEED TO PLOW THROUGH THIS.

WE CAN'T KEEP FUNCTIONING FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS DOING THIS.

I EVEN HAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORY.

I BELIEVE THAT THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO KEEP US ALIVE FOR ANOTHER YEAR SO THAT THEY CAN RIG THE ELECTIONS AGAIN.

>> WELL, THAT'S RIDICULOUS, JOE.

I'M JUST GOING TO SAY IT OUT LOUD.

>> I KNEW YOU WOULD SAY THAT.

>> BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HELP THE DEMOCRATS.

IT DOESN'T HELP THE DEMOCRATS TO HAVE PEOPLE HOME ALL THE TIME, CONSUMING SOCIAL MEDIA, CONSUMING MISINFORMATION.

IT HELPS THE DEMOCRATS TO HAVE PEOPLE OUT THE DOOR AND NOT HAVE TIME TO BE PERSUADED BY SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH THE REPUBLICANS HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB OF.

I DISAGREE THAT THERE'S A POLITICAL INCENTIVE.

>> IT HELPS THE DEMOCRATS -- THEY GET A RIGHT TO DO ALL THEIR ANTICS THAT THEY DID IN THE LAST ELECTION -- >> OH, MY GOODNESS.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH -- >> I COULD PRINT 2000 BALLOTS TOMORROW AND THERE'S NO CHECK ON THOSE BALANCE WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM.

>> WASHINGTON STATE AND OREGON HAVE DONE BOTH BY MAIL FOR MANY YEARS WITH NO PROBLEMS AT ALL.

COLORADO, WHICH USED TO BE A REPUBLICAN STATE, IS LEANING BLUE NOW.

CALIFORNIA JUST WENT MAIL AND -- IN.

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE STATES THAT USE IT -- >> I WAS OUT IN ARIZONA AS THE REPUBLICAN AUDIT SHOWED THAT BIDEN GOT MORE VOTES.

>> HE GOT MORE.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

>> SO THE ELECTION WASN'T RIGGED.

>> 50,000 MORE BALANCE AND JUST PUT THEM ALL IN FOR BIDEN, BECAUSE THERE WERE NO CHECKS AND BALANCES.

>> THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

>> YOU ARE SAYING I CAN'T COUNTERFEIT A VALID?

-- BALLOT?

>> THEY CHECK THE BALLOTS.

>> IN 2016, EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT BUT 2020, EVERYTHING WAS RIGGED?

IT'S RIDICULOUS.

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THIS SOCIETY, JUST AS OTHERS AROUND THE WORLD, PEOPLE IN ITALY, SWEDEN -- YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO DIE, BUT WE HAVE DONE ALL WE CAN DO AND VACCINES ARE EFFECTIVE, WE HOPE, IN PREVENTING THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE FROM DYING IF THEY GET IT.

I AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO START GOING BACK TO LIFE.

AS HYBRID LEARNING, THIS GOES TO WHETHER RHODE ISLAND SCHOOLS, AND WE HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND SO MANY DIFFERENT SCHOOL COMMITTEES, WHICH IS A PROBLEM, GENERALLY, IF YOU ARE RESPONDING QUICKLY TO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, IS TO HAVE TECHNOLOGY WHERE YOU CAN ZOOM.

I DID THAT ALL SUMMER LONG.

I TAUGHT SOME KIDS IN PERSON, BUT I WAS ON ZOOM THE SAME TIME.

I WAS TEACHING TO THE CAMERA AND THE STUDENTS IN THE ROOM AT THE SAME TIME.

>> WHICH THE SCHOOLS HAVE.

>> DO ALL SCHOOLS HAVE THAT?

>> JUST SET UP A LAPTOP.

>> JUST SET UP A LAPTOP.

>> DON'T FORGET WE STARTED IN PERSON -- A LOT OF SCHOOLS TRANSITINED TO A HYBRID.

THEY KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

>> THEY SHOULD BE DOING THAT.

TO THIS DAY, IF THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT, WE ARE ASKED IN MY EMPLOYER TO TAKE YOUR LECTURE OR THEY CAN WATCH IT, IF THEY TEST POSITIVE, JUST TURN ON THE ZOOM TECHNOLOGY AND THEY CAN SEE YOUR CLASS.

>> THE OTHER QUESTION.

JUST BEFORE WE WRAP UP.

THE THING A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT, IF THERE'S A SURGE, ARE WE VACCINATED ENOUGH TO WITHHOLD IT?

WOULD WE GO BACK -- I KNOW IT'S A CRYSTAL BALL QUESTION.

WOULD WE GO BACK TO MORE RESTRICTIONS IN THE FALL?

>> THERE'S NO WAY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO -- PEOPLE ARE DONE WITH RESTRICTIONS.

WE ARE NEAR 88% OF AT LEAST ONE SHOT OF PEOPLE OVER THE AGE OF 18 IN RHODE ISLAND.

PEOPLE HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING.

I WILL WEAR A MASK INSIDE.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO CONSTRAIN ME IN ANY OTHER WAY.

I'M NOT GOING TO LISTEN.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

LET'S NOT JUST IGNORE POLITICS.

WE'RE GOING INTO 2022.

THIS WILL BE FRONT AND CENTER FOR ANY DISCUSSION -- DECISION THAT GOVERNOR MCKEE MAKES.

SCHOOLS MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT STANDARD.

I THINK YOU WILL FIND INDIVIDUAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS -- WE SAW ONE HAS GONE ALL REMOTE, AT LEAST FOR A SHORT TERM.I THINK HE'S GOING TO BE MORE HANDS-OFF WHEN IT COMES TO INDIVIDUAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND ALLOWING THEM TO MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS, BUT WHOLESALE SHUTTING THINGS DOWN LIKE WE SAW IN 2020, BARRING A MASSIVE, WEI RD CHANGE -- >> AND HOW WOULD IT BE IF WE ARE 80% VACCINATED?

>> A VARIANT.

WHO KNOWS?

IT'S HARD TO PREDICT.

>> THE BIGGEST THING WOULD BE A MASK MANDATE.

WE HAVE INDOOR MASK MANDATES IN SOME PLACES NOW IN THE COUNTRY.

>> I WAS IN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.

NEW MEXICO, DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR.

YOU HATE TO PUT POLITICS INTO IT.

THERE WERE INDOOR MASK MANDATES.

WE GOT TO ARIZONA WITH GOVERNOR DUCEY.

WE STRONGLY RECOMMEND IT, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE NOT.

I'M GOING TO NORTH CAROLINA THIS WEEKEND.

THEY DO IT BY COUNTY.

INDOOR MASK MANDATE WHERE I'M GOING TO BE.

IF YOU GO TO OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, YOU REALIZE THE DYNAMICS >> IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATISTICS, THE TOP 10 STATES TO COME OUT OF THIS THING FINANCIALLY ARE ALL REPUBLICAN GOVERNED STATES, THAT HAVE THE LOWEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

THE HIGHEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE, NINE OUT OF 10 OF THE STATES ARE REPUBLICANS.

>> YOU HAVE STATES LIKE FLORIDA.

THAT'S -- >> DESANTIS HAS GONE DOWN.

>> EVERYBODY THAT TEST POSITIVE IS A CASE -- THAT TESTS POSITIVE IS A CASE.

>> BUT THEY ARE DYING IN FLORIDA.

THE DEATH RATE IN FLORIDA IS HUGE.

IT'S NOT JUST THAT THE CASES ARE HIGH.

>EVEN RELATIVE PER CAPITA.

>> WE WILL CIRCLE BACK TO THIS.

>> FLORIDA LOST $5 BILLION IN INCOME OVER 2020, DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY RELATIVELY STAYED OPEN.

MAYBE THEY ARE CHANGING THEIR MIND.

>> THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, SOMEBODY ENTERED THE RACE LATE ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT, EARLY THURSDAY MORNING.

WE ARE TAKING THIS ON A THURSDAY.

A NAME THAT SOME MAY KNOW, BUT OTHERS MAY NOT.

DAVID DARLINGTON HAS NOT OFFICIALLY ANNOUNCED.

DAVE WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BRIDGE AND TURNPIKE AUTHORITY.

THIS IS NEWS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE LARGER ISSUE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT BLAKE WOULD BE THE PERFECT CANDIDATE.

NOW DARLINGTON IS ANNOUNCING.

YOU WONDER WHETHER HE WANTS TO GO TO ALL THAT EFFORT IN A PRIMARY, WHICH TAKES UP A LOT OF TIME AND RESOURCES.

>> THAT'S A STORY THAT EVERYBODY WANTS TO AVOID WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, FOR SOME REASON.

IT'S LIKE WE WANT ONE PERSON IN THE RACE.

I THINK YOU WANT MORE PEOPLE TO COME IN, IF THEY WANT TO RUN AS REPUBLICANS, AND PUT THEIR NAME IN.

>> YOU SHARPEN YOUR KNIFE WIN -- KNIFE, WIN THE PRIMARY, GO TO THE GENERAL?

>> THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

THAT'S OUR SYSTEM, AND I BELIEVE IN OUR SYSTEM.

CERTAINLY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE A BUSLOAD OF PEOPLE IN THIS RACE.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO HURT THEM, ACTUALLY.

HAVING THAT NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS IN THE PRIMARY MIGHT MEAN AN OPENING FOR A SINGLE CANDIDATE REPUBLICAN TO COME IN.

WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT HISTORY, JOE, THAT THE PRIMARY FOR REPUBLICANS HASN'T WORKED OUT SO WELL.

THE KEY HERE IS NAME RECOGNITION, NAME RECOGNITION, NAME RECOGNITION.

WOULD'VE PRIMARY HELP DAVE DARLINGTON IN THAT?

-- WOULD A PRIMARY HELP DAVE DARLINGTON IN THAT?

PROBABLY.

IT WOULD ALSO MEAN DRAINING MONEY.

THE DEMOCRATS WILL BEAT THEMSELVES UP IN A PRIMARY.

IF YOU HAVE ONE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE WHO IS WAITING, DOING FUNDRAISING, DOING SOME POSITIVE ADVERTISING DURING THAT TIME, THAT COULD BENEFIT THEM.

>> WELL, I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH YOU.

I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF ENCOURAGING PEOPLE NOT TO GET IN A RACE.

>> CERTAINLY.

YOU ARE ALLOWED TO RUN.

>> AND THAT'S WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.

I THINK A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY COULD HELP A CANDIDATE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS YEAR.

THERE'S NOBODY TALKING ABOUT RUNNING THAT'S RUN BEFORE.

SO, THE NAME RECOGNITION THAT I'M SEEING BETWEEN BLAKE AND DARLINGTON IS PROBABLY LESS THAN 10%.

WHEN I CAME OUT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, MY NAME RECOGNITION WAS 40%.

I HAD DONE A TV SHOW FOR 16 YEARS.

I HAD BEEN ON THIS SHOW A MILLI ON TIMES.

HOW CAN IT ONLY BE 14%?

>> WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT, JOE.

I HAVE NO ANSWER TO THAT.

>> I DO THINK THE DEMOCRATS, IT'S A CROWDED FIELD NOW FOR GOVERNOR.

THERE'S ONLY SO MUCH IDEOLOGICAL SPACE THAT YOU CAN OCCUPY ON A PLATFORM.

>> IS THAT AN ACADEMIC TERM?

>> IT IS.

HOW MUCH CAN YOU DIFFERENTIATE YOURSELF FROM THE OTHER PEOPLE?

MACK BROWN, OBVIOUSLY.

IT'S INTERESTING, THIS WHOLE PAIRING OF LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

GOVERNOR MCKEE'S VERY SMART STRATEGIC DECISION.

I THINK EVEN THOUGH TECHNICALLY THEY DON'T RUN TOGETHER, THAT'S A PRETTY GOOD TREND OR RHODE ISLAND.

I THINK IT EMPOWERS LATINOS AND WOMEN AND VOTERS OF COLOR.

>> WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE WINS AND ONE LOSES?

>> THAT WOULD BE A VERY INTERESTING SITUATION.

THEY DO NOT RUN ON A FORMAL TICKET.

BUT IT CHANGES THE DYNAMICS OF RHODE ISLAND POLITICS.

IT OPENS DOORS.

IT MAKES MORE PEOPLE INFLUENTIAL.

THE LATINO VOTE IS VERY IMPORTANT, PARTICULARLY COMING OUT OF PROVIDENCE AND CENTRAL FALLS.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING TREND.

FOR EXAMPLE, DE LA CRUZ, REPRESENTATIVE DE LA CRUZ VERY ATTRACTIVE CANDIDATE TO BE A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

MAYBE THERE'S AN OPENING FOR REPUBLICANS, GIVEN THE NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS IN THE PRIMARY THE ONLY PROBLEM IS, THEY HAVE SO MUCH MONEY.

>> THEY COULD SPEND A LOT OF IT DURING THE PRIMARY AS THEY TRY TO GO TO THE LEFT, TO TRY AND LURE THAT VOTE.

WHO DOES AIPAC VALID FOR THE DEMOCRATS -- DOES A PACKED BALLOT FOR THE DEMOCRATS HELP?

>> IT'S AN INTERESTING THING.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF NAME RECOGNITION.

MAGGIE, MCKEE, BROWN -- THEY ARE DECENTLY WELL KNOWN.

THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY WILL HAVE TO SPEND FOR RAYMOND -- NAME RECOGNITION IS LESS THAN YOU WOULD EXPECT.

>> MAYBE THAT WORKS AGAINST THEM.

>> TO ME, THE PENSION PROBLEM IN PROVIDENCE WAS THE BIG THING, AND ALSO THE GUN VIOLENCE.

IT'S TOUGH TO RUN UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, SO I THINK IT WAS A SMART DECISION NOT TO.

>> I THINK GOVERNOR MCKEE'S BIGGEST PROBLEM IS THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY, BECAUSE OF HIS STANCE WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS IN THE PAST.

>> HE IS COURTING THE UNIONS.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT.

>> THOSE TEACHERS NEVER FORGET.

THEY ARE LIKE ELEPHANTS.

>> THEY NEVER FORGET.

>I CAN TELL YOU THAT FROM GOING FROM VOTING FOR PENSION REFORM -- >> LAY HUNG BACK AROUND YOUR NECK -- THEY HUNG THAT AROUND YOUR NECK.

>> THEY NEVER FORGET.

I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR THEM.

>> I DO AGREE WITH YOU ARE NOT.

I WILL SAY THIS ONE THING.

IF THE NEA AND AFT COME OUT AND THEY ENDORSE GOVERNOR MCKEE, LET'S SAY, THE THING THAT COMES WITH THAT IS BOOTS ON THE GROUND, THE GRASSROOTS EFFORTS, THE PHONE BANKS, THE FUNDRAISING, THE GOING DOOR TO DOOR KIND OF THING.

THAT'S NO SMALL THING AND THAT CAN REALLY HELP OUT, BUT I DO THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

>> RAIMONDO FACED THE SAME DIFFICULTIES IN A PRETTY WELL-FINANCED, CROWDED PRIMARY, AND SHE WON.

SHE WON REELECTION WITH BIGGER MARGINS.

I'M NOT SURE IT'S A PATH TO VICTORY.

BUT YOU WORRY ABOUT THE FLIP-FLOPPING.

HE WAS A VERY STRONG ADVOCATE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS AND NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, HE IS NOT.

>> I THINK HE'S STILL AN ADVOCATE OF CHARTER SCHOOLS.

HE'S JUST TRYING TO STRADDLE THE FENCE.

>> THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK CHANNELLING TO MAKE SURE THE LEGISLATION DIDN'T COME UP.

HISTORY IS ON THE REPUBLICANS' S IDE.

I'VE BEEN IN THIS MARKET 40 YEARS.

LINCOLN CHAFEE -- >> YOU ARE MISSING THE BIG PICTURE.

THE BIG PICTURE IS THE DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE CHANGED.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE IN THIS STATE TODAY THAT GET A CHECK IN SOME WAY FROM THE GOVERNMENT THAN WE HAVE EVER HAD.

IT WAS AT 20%.

IT WAS AT 30%, THREE OR FOUR I WOULD BET IT'S UP TO 35% OR 45% OF EVERYBODY IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND THAT GET A PERCENTAGE OF SOME FORM OF HELP FROM THE STATE.

>> -- >> THOSE PEOPLE TEND TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC, SO I THINK THE REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO HAVE A VERY DIFFICULT TIME WINNING THIS ELECTION.

>> LAST QUESTION.

YOU'VE DONE A LOT OF REPORTING.

YOU BROKE THE STORY ON THAT CONTRACT.

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THAT?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE GONE -- GUM ON MCKEE'S SHOE?

>> I DO.

THAT CAN EASILY BE HARNESSED INTO A NEGATIVE CAMPAIGN ADD IF AN OPPONENT WANTS TO DO THAT -- CAMPAIGN AD IF AN OPPONENT WANTS TO DO THAT.

THE SENATE AND HOUSE WILL HOLD OVERSIGHT HEARINGS INTO HOW CONTRACTS ARE PURE.

-- ARE PROCURED BY THE STATE.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF SCRUTINY ON HOW THEY WERE -- WE DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO THE WEEDS.

HOW THIS COMPANY WAS ABLE TO GET ON THE MASTER PRICE AGREEMENT, THE MPA, SO IT COULD GO AROUND THE NORMAL BIDDING PROCESS.

SEPARATELY, THIS HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED, BUT I WILL PUT MONEY DOWN THAT IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEES, YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF QUESTIONS TO RIDE TO THE DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION AND THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION ABOUT, NOW THAT THEY HAVE A CONTRACT, HOW IS THAT MONEY BEING SPENT, AND COULD WE HAVE USED THE UP TO $5.2 MILLION IN OTHER WAYS, SAY TESTING IN SCHOOLS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK YOU WILL HAVE IT FROM BOTH RUNS, AND THAT MIGHT BE A HEADACHE FOR THE MCKEE ADMINISTRATION.

>> MICKEY ACTED SWIFTLY -- MCKEE ACTED SWIFTLY WITH TONY SILVA, BUT HE HAS A WHOLE CIRCLE OF PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS, THAT HE TRUST,S BUT HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH -- THAT HE TRUSTS, BUT HE'S BEEN WORKING WITH THEM A LONG TIME AND THAT CIRCLE ISN'T THE DOMINANT FORCE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY RIGHT NOW.

WHEN YOU THINK ABUT WHO HIS CIRCLE IS AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DECIDE TO VOTE FOR HIM IN A PRIMARY, THEY DON'T MATCH.

HE HAS TO FIGURE OUT A WAY OF BREAKING SOME OF THOSE TIES AND AVOIDING -- THIS IS THE SECOND SORT OF PERCEPTION THAT IT'S AN INSIDER GAME HERE AND HE'S GIVEN FAVORS.

>> I CAN HEAR THE POLITICAL AD NOW, THE CUMBERLAND CABAL.

>WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I SAID PUBLICLY I LIKE WHAT MCKEE HAS BEEN DOING SO FAR.

I LIKE THE WAY HE'S BEEN HANDLING THINGS.

WITH THIS ILO SITUATION, WHO CAN GO OUT TODAY AND FORM A COMPANY AND REGISTER THAT COMPANY AND INCORPORATE IT TOMORROW AND RECEIVE A $6 MILLION CONTRACT WITHIN THE SAME WEEK?

.

NOBODY.

.

IT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

THE COMPANY HAS NO CREDIBILITY.

NO TRACK RECORD.

YET THEY ARE BEING AWARDED THIS $6 MILLION CONTRACT.

HOW DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN?

WHEN YOU HAVE A COMPANY THAT GAVE YOU A LOWBALL -- AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IT WAS A LOWBALL BID.

IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LEGITIMATE BID.

>> WE HAD ANGEL TAVERAS ON LAST WEEK.

HE'S RUN A RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

HE SAID IT'S AN EASY STORY TO EXPLAIN HOW BAD IT IS.

IT JUST LOOKS BAD.

>> IT'S THE SECOND ONE IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

HE HAS TO RIGHT THAT SHIP.

>> WE ARE MORE THAN A YEAR AWAY.

A LOT COULD HAPPEN.

>> OUTRAGE OR KUDO?

>> BILL BELICHICK'S GAME WITH REPORTERS IS GETTING OLD.

NOW THAT HE IS PRETTY REPORTERS LIKE PUNCHING BAGS AT PRESS CONFERENCES, IT'S GETTING OLD.

>> A COLONIST -- COLUMNIST -- GO READ HER ARTICLE, SPOT ON.

IF YOU ARE WINNING, FINE.

YOU ARE A RELIC.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

>> I'M GOING WAY BACK TO MY HOUSEHOLD, WHICH IS A GIANT HOUSEHOLD.

YOU THINK ABOUT TOM LANDRY AND THE WAY HE WAS TREATED AT THE END OF HIS CAREER AND WHAT THEY DID TO HIM IN DALLAS.

THAT CAN HAPPEN.

>> DID THEY BURY HIM IN HIS HAT?

>> HE DID HAVE A PRETTY GOOD WINNING RECORD.

MY OUTRAGE IS VERY SIMILAR.

GUN VIOLENCE, OBVIOUSLY.

WE WANT TO BE TOUGHER ON CRIME.

YOU HAVE TO BE TOUGH ON ILLEGAL GUNS IN PARTICULAR.

WE HAVE TOO MANY GUNS AVAILABLE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO A SECOND AMENDMENT FIGHT.

IT'S TOO EASY TO GET A GUN ILLEGALLY OR LEGALLY AND PEOPLE GET SHOT.

CHILDREN GET SHOT.

IT'S AWFUL.

>> WE COULD DO A WHOLE SHOW ON THIS.

>> YOU ARE HAVING BREAKFAST AND YOU GET SHOT TODAY -- SHOT TO DEATH.

THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN ANYWHERE.

SOMETHING IS DEEPLY WRONG.

YOU SHOULD BE SHOT TO DEATH HAVING DINING ROOM IN -- HAVING BREAKFAST IN A DINING ROOM IN PROVIDENCE.

IT CAN BE ILLEGAL GUNS.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.

SOMEONE FEELS THEY CAN'T GET AWAY WITH DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> PEOPLE ALWAYS BLAME GUNS.

IT'S NOT THE GUNS.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP PEOPLE FROM WANTING TO HURT PEOPLE.

YOU CAN STAB PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD END UP DOING IF WE GET RID OF THE GUNS.

MY OUTRAGE REALLY IS THAT BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES ARE REALLY GOOD AT CREATING A STORY AROUND NOTHING AND BLOWING IT UP AND BLOWING IT UP AND I WILL GO TO ONE EXAMPLE IS, OF COURSE, THE TRUMP-RUSSIA COLLUSION, WHICH WE KNOW WAS A JOKE, BUT THEY BUILT IT UP, THEY TALKED ABOUT IT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE BELIEVED IT.

WE KNOW TODAY THAT IT WASN'T A PROBLEM WITH THE RUSSIANS, THAT THEY PUT ON TRUMP.

MY OUTRAGE IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING -- WITH THIS JANUARY 6 INSURRECTION.

LOOK AT THE TAPES NOW THAT ARE COMING OUT.

THEY ARE SHOWING PEOPLE WALKING AROUND WITH THEIR CELL PHONES VERY CALMLY, LIKE THEY ARE IN A MUSEUM.

YES, THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE THAT DID SOME BAD THINGS.

NOBODY BURNED IT -- NOBODY SMASHED PAINTINGS ON THE WALL.

WE'VE HAD THAT HAPPEN IN THE RHODE ISLAND STATE HOUSE.

GROUPS HAVE GONE IN AND SLASHED THE OIL PAINTINGS.

>> THEY BEAT UP POLICE OFFICERS.

>> I'M MAKING AN EXECUTIVE DECISION.

THIS CAN'T END.

JOE WILL NOT FEEL HE HAS FULLY VENTED HIS SPLEEN.

A QUICK 10 MINUTES RIGHT NOW.

GO TO RIPBS.ORG.

FOR THOSE OF US WHO CAN'T JOIN US, COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I ENCOURAGE YOU TO GO ONLINE AS WE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT ON IMPORTANT POLITICAL