JIM: THIS WEEK, NEXT MONTH VOTERS WILL DECIDE WHETHER TO SPEND MILLIONS ON SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION WITH QUESTIONS UNANSWERED.

THE RACE FOR CD1 GOES TO THE HOMESTRETCH.

ANNOUNCER: A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON THE POLITICAL ISSUES FACING RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER.

JIM: BILLY HUNT, CHAIRMAN OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY OF RHODE ISLAND, NANCY LAVIN, SENIOR REPORTER FOR THE RHODE ISLAND CURRENT AND JIM VINCENT.

I'’M JIM HUMMEL.

RISING INTEREST RATES AND CONSTRUCTION COSTS HAVE NOT DETERRED COMMUNITIES FOR ASKING VOTERS TO APPROVE BONDS FOR RENOVATIONS FOR NEW SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION.

AN ENHANCED STATE REIMBURSEMENT EXPIRES NEXT YEAR.

IS THIS THE RIGHT TIME TO LAUNCH THESE PROJECTS?

YOU BEEN PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION.

BILLY: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR EDUCATION IN RHODE ISLAND AND SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

THE LOGIC BEHIND HAVING THESE ELECTIONS DURING A NONELECTION YEAR.

SPECIAL ELECTION, A SMALL PERCENTAGE WILL COME OUT AND OBLIGATE CITIES AND TOWNS, 860 $5 MILLION OF TOTAL SCHOOL FUNDING BETWEEN MIDDLETOWN, NORTH KINGSTON, BARRINGTON.

IS THIS A SITUATION LIKE GAMBLING WHERE WE CAN GET A BOND PASSED DURING A GENERAL REFERENDUM FOR THE STATE FOR GAMBLING BUT WHEN IT COMES TO NEWPORT, ACTUALLY HAVING GAMBLING IN THE CITY, THEY REJECTED THE PROPOSAL?

IS IT EASY TO GET SCHOOL FUNDING BONDS PASSED IN GENERAL BUT WHEN IT COMES TO RUBBER TO THE ROAD IN LOCAL COMMUNITIES, ACTUALLY FUNDING THE MAJORITY OF THIS, ARE THEY WORRIED THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PASS THE BONDS SO THEY ARE TRYING TO SQUEEZE THEM INTO SPECIAL ELECTIONS?

>> IS WELL KNOWN MOST SCHOOLS IN RHODE ISLAND NEED REPAIR OR TO BE REPLACED YESTERDAY.

I DON'’T KNOW IF ANYTHING IS UNFAIR.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE DOING THEM AS FAST AS THEY CAN.

THE NEED IS THERE.

PERHAPS CITIES AND TOWNS SHOULD BE MORE TRANSPARENT IN TERMS OF WHAT PEOPLE WILL BE VOTING ON EXACTLY BUT I THINK THESE NEEDED TO BE DONE YESTERDAY.

THERE ARE MAJOR PROBLEMS.

LOOK AT BRISTOL WITH FLOODING IN THE BASEMENT.

EDUCATION AND THE SAFETY OF CHILDREN IS IMPORTANT.

DO IT WHEN YOU CAN DO IT.

BILLY: WHY DIDN'’T THEY DO IT DURING THE LAST NOVEMBER ELECTION?

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER THE $400 MILLION WORTH OF BONDING IN 2021?

ALL THESE BONDS FLOATED OUT DURING SPECIAL ELECTION YEARS, IT DOESN'’T SEEM TO ME, WHY ARE WE WAITING FOR A SPECIAL ELECTION WHEN THE EXPIRATION IS COMING UP?

JIM: THE ENHANCEMENT FROM THE STATE WILL BE EXPIRING NEXT YEAR.

SCHOOLS ARE WAKING UP.

IF WE CAN GET HALF OF IT REIMBURSED?

NANCY: PERHAPS, WITH INTEREST RATES RISING, WE'’VE SEEN PROJECTS, NOT SCHOOL PROJECTS, I'’VE WRITTEN ABOUT THE STADIUM AND PAWTUCKET AND HOW COSTS HAVE GONE UP, I DON'’T KNOW, BUT IT COULD BE PEOPLE WERE WAITING TO SEE IF ECONOMIC CONDITIONS WOULD BE MORE FAVORABLE TO BORROW THIS YEAR AND THEY ARE NOT BUT NOW IT IS RUBBER MEETS THE ROAD, BORROW OR LOSE THE INCENTIVE.

TO ME, THE THING THAT IS LAST WEEK IS WHEN A CITY LIKE WARWICK APPROVES BONDING BUT THEN COSTS GO UP BECAUSE OF RISING SUPPLY COSTS, INTEREST RATES AND BOND UNDERWRITING COSTS THAT WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL BALLOT.

VOTERS, HOWEVER MANY, ARE VOTING ON SOMETHING THAT COSTS XML TO NOVEMBER BUT MAY ACTUALLY COST 20% MORE BY THE TIME BONDS GET ISSUED.

>> YOU HAVE TO BE TRANSPARENT AND GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

YOU CANNOT HAVE THE VOTERS LATER FINDING OUT.

I DON'’T KNOW WHY PEOPLE WAIT.

WITH INCENTIVES EXPIRING, IT IS INCUMBENT ON ANY CITY OR TOWN THAT WANTS TO DEAL WITH EDUCATION TO GET THOSE PROJECTS GOING NOW.

>> THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY EXTENDED THE DEADLINE TWICE.

IF THEY ARE GOING TO SIT HERE AND SAY THIS IS THE REASON WE ARE GOING TO PUSH THIS THROUGH AT THE LAST MINUTE IS A RED HERRING.

JIM: IN WARWICK, INTEREST RATES AND CONSTRUCTION COSTS GO UP, YOU CANNOT AFFORD AS MUCH, THEN THEY START TRIMMING THE PROJECT.

GREAT EUPHEMISM.

VALUE ENGINEERING.

SOUNDS GREAT.

THAT MEANS THE TRACK AND LIGHTING AND AC MIGHT GO.

FROM A PHILOSOPHICAL POINT OF VIEW, SHOULD YOU GO BACK TO VOTERS IF IT CHANGES SIGNIFICANTLY?

>> 100%.

BY THE ADD-ONS, BEING ABLE TO DO COMMUNITY EVENTS AT THE BUILDING.

YOU HAVE LARGE BUILDINGS, WE ARE SETTING OURSELVES UP FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS OF THE SAME EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM WE HAVE NOW.

THERE IS NO INNOVATION, CHARTER SCHOOLS.

PRIVATE SCHOOLS HAVE BEEN DOING BETTER IN PROVIDENCE.

WHY ARE WE LOOKING FOR DIFFERENT MODELS INSTEAD OF REBUILDING THE SAME FAILED EDUCATION SYSTEM FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS AND CONDEMNING STUDENTS TO THE SAME MODEL?

JIM: IT'’S A GOOD POINT.

TAXPAYER STATEWIDE APPROVED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN BONDS.

PROVIDENCE, THERE WAS A BIG DEAL A COUPLE YEARS AGO, WE'’VE GOT ALL THIS MONEY.

THE HOPKINS REPORT.

WE ARE GOING TO PUT MONEY IN THE SCHOOLS.

IS THAT HAPPENING?

YOU DON'’T HEAR ABOUT IT.

NANCY: PROBABLY EVERYTHING PEOPLE THOUGHT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE WEIGHT OF THE REPORT HAS NOT MATERIALIZED TO THE DEGREE WE THOUGHT IN TERMS OF FUNDING AND STATE TEST SCORES, SCHOOL PERFORMANCE, WHAT THE STATE TAKEOVER HAS MEANT FOR PROVIDENCE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WHETHER THAT IS FAILURE OR NOT, THAT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

WE HAVEN'’T SEEN THE CONCRETE RECOMMENDATIONS THE HOPKINS REPORT LAID OUT REALLY COME TO BEAR.

JIM: THERE'’S A DISCONNECT.

THE STATE IS RUNNING THE EDUCATION OF PROVIDENCE BUT THE SCHOOLS BELONG TO THE CITY.

THERE WAS AN ISSUE OR YEAR AGO WITH CLOSING ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS.

>> BACK TO THE ORIGINAL THING, VOTERS DECIDING, IN TERMS OF ANY INCREASING COST, DEPENDS WHERE THE THRESHOLD IS.

WHO MAKES THE DECISION?

JIM: IS IT ENOUGH DIFFERENT YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK?

JIM: WHAT IS THAT THRESHOLD?

IN TERMS OF THE HOPKINS REPORT, I AGREE.

THERE'’S A LOT TO BE SAID ABOUT OPPORTUNITIES MISSED UP TO THIS POINT.

HOPEFULLY THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WILL MATERIALIZE IN THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.

I'’M DISAPPOINTED.

JIM: YOU THINK ANY OF THOSE BONDS WILL GO DOWN?

BILLY: 60% BONDS PASSED IN THE STATE IN GENERAL.

IT IS A MOOT POINT.

WE HAVE NO PROBLEM SPENDING AND PUTTING MONEY ON THE CREDIT CARD, TO THE POINT WE NEED TO KEEP SCHOOL BUILDINGS MAINTAINED, WE DON'’T HAVE A PLAN LIKE PETER DOES FOR THE INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN ABOUT MAINTAINING SCHOOLS GOING FORWARD.

RE: JUST THROWING MONEY AT THE PROBLEM AND REBUILDING SCHOOLS FOR THE FACT THAT THEY WILL DETERIORATE ANYWAY?

JIM: THE ACT ON CLIMATE PAST A COUPLE YEARS AGO, SETTING UP BENCHMARKS FOR GETTING AWAY FROM CARBON FOOTPRINT.

WHAT ARE THE METRICS?

YOU WROTE ABOUT THIS THIS WEEK?

NANCY: THE TOP LINE NEWS IS WE ARE DOING GREAT IF YOU LOOK AT 2020.

NO ONE WAS DRIVING, NO ONE WAS FLYING.

JIM: NO ONE WAS LEAVING THEIR HOUSE.

[LAUGHTER] NANCY: NOTHING LIKE A PANDEMIC TO SLASH CARBON EMISSIONS.

THE KICKER WAS, THE DEM WHICH REPORTS INVENTORY BASED ON FEDERAL DATA EXPECTS EMISSIONS WILL GO BACK UP FOR '’21, WHICH WILL BE OUT NEXT YEAR.

THE OTHER INTERESTING THING IS ACT ON CLIMATE SETS INCREMENTAL BENCHMARKS OF WHERE WE NEED TO GO RELATIVE TO THE 1990 BASELINE.

THE FIRST BENCHMARK WAS 2020, THE NEXT IS 2030.

THERE IS THIS LONG LAG AND WHEN THE EPA IS ABLE TO COLLECT AND SUBMIT DATA ABOUT WHERE EMISSIONS ARE COMING FROM AND HOW MUCH THEY ARE EACH YEAR, WE WON'’T ACTUALLY KNOW IF WE MEET OR DON'’T MEET -- THREE YEAR LAG.

2030, WE WON'’T KNOW UNTIL 2033.

THE OTHER PART, AT SOME POINT, I DON'’T REMEMBER THE YEAR, PEOPLE CAN START SUING THE STATE FOR FAILING TO MEET THE BENCHMARK.

IT DOESN'’T SAY THE BENCHMARK IS 2030, FOR 45% REDUCTION, AS WE FIND OUT IN 2033.

IT'’S UNCLEAR WHEN THE LAWSUITS WILL START AND HOW THE AG WILL DEFEND THOSE IF WE DON'’T HAVE DATA.

DEM, FOR MY REPORTING, FEELS HAMSTRUNG.

THEY ARE AT THE MERCY OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

STATES ARE ASKING THE EPA TO SPEED UP THE DATA COLLECTION PROCESS.

WE DON'’T KNOW WHAT'’S GOING TO >> THE BIGGEST DRIVERS OF CARBON EMISSIONS IN THE STATE IS TRANSPORTATION AND HOME HEATING.

JIM, YOU DID A GREAT STORY ABOUT THE STATE FAILING TO COMPLY WITH THE WRONG MANDATES.

LESS THAN 10% OF THE VEHICLES THEY PURCHASED ARE NOT HYBRID OR ELECTRIC.

THIS IS A GROWING ISSUE.

DEALERSHIPS ARE TURNING AWAY EV INVENTORY BECAUSE THEY HAVE 100 DAYS OF INVENTORY, THEY CANNOT KEEP INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES ON THE LOT.

IT TAKES EXTRA MONEY AND RESOURCES AND INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS NOT IN PLACE.

THIS GOES T THE OVERALL AFFORDABILITY ISSUES WE HAVE IN THE STATE.

HOUSING IS NOT AFFORDABLE.

TRANSPORTATION WILL BE NOT AFFORDABLE.

ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE 15% MORE EXPENSIVE.

YOU HAVE TO RETROFIT YOUR HOUSE WITH THE CHARGING STATION.

YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT LONG TRIPS, GETTING A DIFFERENT VEHICLE.

REALISTICALLY, THE MANDATES PUT US IN A BAD POSITION AS A STATE IN TERMS OF IF WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS AFFORDABILITY AND HOUSING BECAUSE THE NEXT BASIC EXPENSE IS YOUR CAR PAYMENT.

IF WE ARE ENTICING PEOPLE TO DO HEAT PUMPS AND RETROFITTING THEIR HOUSES AND ELECTRIC PANELS, THAT IS ADDITIONAL COST.

NANCY: THE INTERESTING THING IS THERE ARE MANDATES FOR WHERE RHODE ISLAND, HOW MUCH IT HAS TO REDUCE EMISSIONS.

THERE ARE NO MANDATES FOR WHAT RESIDENTS OR BUSINESSES HAVE TO DO.

THE STATE IS TAKING A LEAD BY EXAMPLE APPROACH WHICH IS IRONICALLY NOT MEETING ITSELF BUT THEN EXPECTING PEOPLE WILL THROUGH INCENTIVES OR MODELING OF GOOD BEHAVIOR, PEOPLE WILL FOLLOW SUIT.

IT'’S A BIG JUMP WE NEED TO GET TO FROM 20222030 IN TERMS OF CARBON REDUCTIONS.

JIM: WE ARE ALREADY AT 2023.

IS THERE ONE PERSON KEEPING THEIR EYE ON THE BALL?

JIM: THEY ARE NOT.

EACH DEPARTMENT WITH THE STATE, THEY DO THEIR OWN PURCHASING.

THIS WAIVER THING, ALMOST UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOMEONE IN CHARGE.

UNLESS YOU HAVE A REALLY GOOD REASON TO HAVE A WAIVER, WE NEED TO DO THESE KINDS OF THINGS WITH VEHICLES TO REDUCE EMISSIONS.

AS FAR AS THE TECHNOLOGY BEING DEVELOPED, IT'’S RAPIDLY COMING ONLINE.

THE GOVERNMENT PUT ANOTHER $25 MILLION INTO CHARGING STATIONS.

THINGS ARE HAPPENING FASTER THAN THEY WERE THREE YEARS AGO.

THERE HAS TO BE A HAPPY BALANCE.

DVDS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE BUT IF YOU REDUCE EMISSIONS OVER TIME, YOU HAVE TO CREATE BALANCE -- EV'’S ARE MORE EXPENSIVE.

JIM: THE STORY IN SEPTEMER WAS THE GOVERNMENT IS SUPPOSED TO BE NEEDING A CERTAIN DEADLINE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT PURCHASING.

IF DEM OR DOT OR WHOEVER WANTS A CAR, THEY HAVE A BUDGET.

IF IT WILL COST MORE FOR AN EVE, ARE THEY GOING TO DO THAT?

NO WONDER THERE IS ONLY 10%.

BILLY: THE IDEA OF ELECTRIC IS A FEEL-GOOD IDEA.

WE WILL MANDATE THIS.

EVERYONE WILL DRIVE ELECTRIC.

WHEN THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD, THE COST IS NOT FEASIBLE.

JIM: YOU SENT ME A DETAILED EMAIL.

WHENEVER I DO A STORY, BILLY GIVES ME THE RUNDOWN.

THE WEIGHT OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES.

PARKING DECKS.

BILLY: THAT IS SOMETHING I THOUGHT ABOUT.

IS THE CURRENT INFRASTRUCTURE, ESPECIALLY IN THE NORTHEAST, ARE THE PARKING STRUCTURES AVAILABLE TO TAKE THE ADDITIONAL WEIGHT OF THESE VEHICLES.

I WORK IN THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY.

THIRD-PARTY LIABILITY OF THESE VEHICLES.

A HEAVIER VEHICLE IS SAFER FOR THE OCCUPANTS.

IF YOU HIT A SMALLER CAR OR A PEDESTRIAN, YOU CREATE MORE DAMAGE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

THE OTHER END IS THE PHYSICAL DAMAGE COVERAGE IS MORE EXPENSIVE ON THE VEHICLES BECAUSE BATTERIES ARE INTEGRATED IN THE FRAME.

IF YOU GET INTO A MINOR FENDER BENDER, IT DAMAGES THE BATTERY AND YOU HAVE TO TOTAL THE VEHICLE.

WITH CARBON EMISSIONS TO CREATE THESE VEHICLES, IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

IF YOU INEVITABLY TOTALLY CAR WITH LESS THAN 60,000 MILES ON IT, YOU HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON CARBON COMPARED TO AN INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE, THAT IS EASIER TO REPAIR.

JIM: WHAT IS THE NEXT BENCHMARK?

NANCY: 2030.

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO REDUCE BELOW THE 1990 BASELINE BY 45%.

JIM: ARE WE GOING TO HEAR IN TERM REPORTS?

NANCY: DEM WILL COME OUT WITH THE NEXT UPDATE.

THERE ARE ANNUAL INVENTORIES.

JIM: IN THE LEAD BY EXAMPLE, THE CHANGING OF THE EXECUTIVE ORDER GOVERNOR MCKEE DID, GOT LOST IN THE HEADLINES OF, DEM REGULATIONS, NO GASOLINE CARS SOLD IN 2035.

DEM STILL HAS TO HAVE THOSE HEARINGS?

NANCY: IT'’S A PROPOSED RULE.

IT'’S NOT CONSIDERED A FINAL RULE.

JIM: WE ARE CLOSE TO THE CD1 RACE.

THERE HASN'’T BEEN PULLING UP UNTIL THIS WEEK.

GABE AGAIN SCARY IN THE SPECIAL ELECTION TO REPLACE DAVID.

A POLL SHOWED HE WAS AHEAD.

PEOPLE AT THIS POINT WOULDN'’T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR.

JIM: ALSO, AMONG INDEPENDENTS, LEONARD IS LEADING.

THE ELECTION IS NOT GOING TO BE A 40 POINT BLOWOUT LIKE SOME THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN.

THEY WILL BE CLOSE.

54% OF THE ELECTED VOTERS ARE EITHER INDEPENDENT OR REPUBLICAN.

ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

MR. WMO PROBABLY WILL BE WINNING.

HE'’S A GREAT CANDIDATE.

I KNOW HIM WELL, I KNOW HIS FAMILY.

WE WILL SEE.

JIM: IT'’S BEEN QUIET.

NANCY: THIS RACE HAS BEEN A SLEEPER.

UP TO THE PRIMARY, IT WAS WILD.

THEN IT FELL ASLEEP COMATOSE.

SONY PEOPLE BEING UNDECIDED.

I WONDER, HONESTLY, DOES UNDECIDED REALLY MEAN I DON'’T CARE ENOUGH TO VOTE?

PERHAPS THERE IS A LEVEL OF APATHY OR UNAWARENESS.

WE ARE TUNED INTO IT BECAUSE OF OUR JOBS.

IF YOU ARE THE AVERAGE RESIDENT, YOU ARE NOT SEEING OR HEARING MUCH ABOUT THE RACE IN THE NEWS OR ON TV.

MAYBE THESE TELEVISED DEBATES NEXT WEEK WILL LIVEN THINGS UP AND CREATE MORE INTEREST.

TO ME, PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY INTERESTED ENOUGH TO VOTE.

JIM: THE SECRETARY OF STATE'’S VOTE TRACKER, SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE ARE NOT EARLY VOTING.

NANCY: SOME PEOPLE ALWAYS WILL.

THEY ARE MOST COMMITTED.

THAT'’S WHAT POLITICAL SCIENTISTS SAY.

IN AN OFF YEAR ELECTION IN GENERAL, WE ARE KNOCKING TO SEE HIGH TURNOUT.

THE EARLY VOTING IS LOW.

I DON'’T KNOW THAT IT IS EVEN GOING TO TURN OUT ON ELECTION DAY.

BILLY: I DON'’T THINK IT WILL BREAK 40%.

I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF THEY GATHER A THIRD OF THE VOTE.

SPECIAL ELECTIONS PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AN UPSET OF THE ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE.

I HAVEN'’T SEEN THE GET OUT THE VOTE GAME FROM THE LEONARD CAMPAIGN.

REPUBLICANS WILL VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS.

DEMOCRATS WILL VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS.

AS AN UNAFFILIATED VOTER, MY WIFE, FAMILY AND FRIENDS, WE ARE NOT BEING REACHED OUT TO.

TO BEYOND, THE DEMOCRATS CHOSE A MODERATE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE INDEPENDENTS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SPEAKER'’S RACE IN CONGRESS, THEY COULD SAY HE IS A MODERATE DEMOCRAT AND DECIDE TO VOTE FOR HIM.

JIM: YOU THINK IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT WAS SOMEONE ELSE?

BILLY: ANECDOTALLY, TERRY FLYNN SIGNS, ALAN WATERS SIGNS HAVE BEEN REPLACED BY GARY LEONARD SIGNS.

I HAVE NOT NOTICED AN INCREASE IN GABE'’S SIGNS.

OTHER SIGNS HAVE COME DOWN AND NOT BEEN REPLACED BY ANYTHING.

I WONDER IF THERE IS APATHY IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

JIM: 2016.

HILLARY CLINTON, BOTH CANDIDATES HAD ISSUES.

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAT OUT THE RACE.

8 MILLION FEWER PEOPLE VOTED IN THAT ELECTION, DEMOCRATS, VAN DID FOR OBAMA IN 2012.

I DON'’T THINK IT WILL REPEAT ITSELF WITH A LEONARD VICTORY.

YOU WONDER IF THERE IS COMPLACENCY.

HE'’S GOT IT, WHY DO I NEED TO GO?

JIM: THAT COULD HAPPEN.

THEIR CAMPAIGN NEEDS TO BE DILIGENT.

ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN IN A SPECIAL ELECTION, ESPECIALLY IN AN OFF YEAR.

HE HAS TO WORK ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE END, THROUGH THE TAPE.

HE SAID HE WILL DEFINITELY DO THAT.

40% OF INDEPENDENTS ARE UNDECIDED.

LEONARD IS LEADING HIM 26-25 FOR INDEPENDENTS.

THAT NUMBER MIGHT NOT BE INCREDIBLE.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT IT.

JIM: WHAT WORKS IN HIS FAVOR IS HE GOT OUT THE VOTE FOR THE PRIMARY.

HE'’S GOT THE DEMOCRATIC MACHINE BEHIND HIM.

NANCY: HE'’S GOT THE FUNDING.

THE LATEST PRE-PRIMARY CAMPAIGN FINANCE REPORTS CAME OUT YESTERDAY.

HE HAS SO MUCH MORE CASH ON HAND THAN GARY LEONARD DOES.

AS A JOURNALIST, IT'’S NOT JUST GARY DROPPING THE BALL ON THE CAMPAIGNING POST PRIMARY, GABE, EVERY DAY WE GOT A THING IN OUR INBOX.

HERE'’S WHERE HE'’S GOING TO BE.

JIM: HE NO ONE KNOWS.

NANCY: TRYING TO GET A HOLD OF AN INTERVIEW WAS DIFFICULT.

IT STILL IS.

THERE WAS CRITICISM OF HIM FOR THAT.

HE STARTED POSTING ON TWITTER.

HE IS TURNING DOWN DEBATES, DECIDING TO ONLY DO TWO, WHICH IS HIS PREROGATIVE.

HIS CAMPAIGN IS NOT RUNNING AT THE SAME PUBLIC STEAM AND MOMENTUM IT WAS PRETTY PRIMARY.

JIM: THAT IS CONSULTANTS SAYING, YOU'’VE GOT A COMFORTABLE LEAD.

DON'’T STEP IN IT BEFORE THE RACE.

DO YOU THINK HE SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE DEBATE?

>> NO.

THIS WAS A CLOSE RACE.

RESPECT THE CANDIDATE.

GARY.

NANCY: PEOPLE DON'’T EVEN KNOW.

HE'’S NOT OUT THERE.

JIM: GARY LARRY TERRY.

JIM: TO ASSUME YOU'’RE GOING TO WALK IN THERE IS ERRONEOUS.

MAKE SURE YOU DON'’T OPEN YOURSELF UP, TO GIVING YOUR OPPONENT EXPOSURE AND THEN FIND OUT YOU LOST.

HE'’S NOT RUNNING TO BE THE HEAD OF DEMOCRACY, WHATEVER.

HE'’S TRYING TO WIN AN ELECTION.

BILLY: I DON'’T THINK THE DEBATES WILL MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IN THE RACE.

YOU WANT CANDIDATES TO INTERVIEW FOR THE JOB.

I DON'’T THINK ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE TUNED IN TO CARE ABOUT DEBATES OR WATCH THEM.

UNLESS SOME CRAZY THING HAPPENS, WHICH USUALLY DOESN'’T HAPPEN, THEY WON'’T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE IF THEY DID TWO, 10 OR NONE.

JIM: TIME MARCHES ON.

JIM: MY KUDO'’S CASH NNEKA WALLOW.

LONGTIME ATTORNEY.

VERY SMART GUY.

VERY WELL RESPECTED.

HE'’S MADE THE LIST FOR THE MOST RECENT VACANCY IN THE DISTRICT COURT.

THIS IS A GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE SOMEONE EXCELLENT ON THE COURT.

OF THE 87 JUDGES IN RHODE ISLAND, SEVEN ARE BLACK OR BROWN.

ONLY SEVEN.

WE HAVE A CHANCE TO MOVE UP FROM 8% TO 10%.

I AM NOT A MATH MAJOR.

25% WOULD BE ANOTHER 22 JUDGES.

WE NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL AND DELIBERATE.

WE NEED TO HAVE THAT VACANCY.

JIM: YOU CALLED THE GREAT YEAR ON THE SUPREME COURT.

AFTER YOU CALLED GOVERNOR MCKEE 100 TIMES.

JIM: NOT QUITE 100.

I THINK HE NEEDS TO BE ON THAT DISTRICT COURT.

HE WILL BE AN EXCELLENT JUDGE.

BILLY: MY OUTRAGE IS THE PROLIFERATION OF NONPROFIT ELECTIONEERING IN ALL CAMPAIGNS, ESPECIALLY THE SPECIAL ELECTION.

WE TALKED ABOUT NOT BEING CONTACTED ABOUT THE LEONARD CAMPAIGN.

I'’VE BEEN CONTACTED BY NUMEROUS SPECIAL INTERESTS.

WE'’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT 501(C) FIVE ORGANIZATIONS.

501(C)(3) ARE BLATANTLY PARTICIPATING IN POLITICAL ISSUES.

THEY ARE TAX-EXEMPT THEMSELVES AND THEIR DONORS CAN GET TAX-EXEMPT FOR DONATIONS.

THERE IS WEIRD GAME OF CORPORATIONS TAKING MONEY FROM NONPROFITS, INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURES.

COALITIONS GET FORMED BETWEEN NONPROFITS AND CORPORATIONS.

TAXPAYERS ARE SENDING MONEY TO NONPROFITS THROUGH THE STATE BUDGET.

IT DOESN'’T SEEM RIGHT THE SHADOW GOVERNMENT IS BASICALLY THIS NONPROFIT JUGGERNAUT THAT IS HAVING A LOT OF SAY IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

JIM: YOU WONDER WHO IS PAYING ATTENTION.

501(C)(3) IS STRICT NONPROFIT.

501(C) FOUR, YOU CAN DO A BIT OF LOBBYING.

WHO IS ENFORCING IT?

BILLY: THERE IS A VERY NARROW TIMEFRAME, SOMETHING LIKE 90 DAYS YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE TO MAKE A COMPLAINT AGAINST THESE THINGS.

IT IS A FLAWED SYSTEM AND NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

JIM: NANCY, WELCOME FOR YOUR DEBUT.

NICE TO HAVE YOU.

YOU CAN READ ALL HER STUFF IN THE CURRENT, DOING GREAT WORK.

YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

NANCY: KUDOS OVER OUTRAGE.

JIM: 2-2!

NANCY: ELI SHERMAN AT PRI, LOVE HIS WORK.

GOOD STORY ABOUT A MAYOR UNILATERALLY PURCHASING FOR $1 MILLION A PROPERTY SHE INTENDS TO USE TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING ON VALUED AT $200,000.

THE KICKER IS CITY COUNCIL DIDN'’T KNOW ABOUT IT.

IT MAY BE A CHARTER VIOLATION BECAUSE TYPICALLY PURCHASES OVER $100,000 WOULD NEED COUNCIL APPROVAL.

SHE IS SAYING IT DOESN'’T HAVE TO BECAUSE IT USES HUD FUNDS.

THERE IS A STORY OF BACK-AND-FORTH AND TURNER VIOLATIONS AND TENSIONS BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR IN WOONSOCKET.

THE OTHER OPPONENT'’S I HAVE COVERED WOONSOCKET POLITICS, IT IS A TOUGH NUT TO CRACK.

THEY DON'’T LIKE REPORTERS.

JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

NICE TO SEE YOU.

COME ON BACK TO THE HOME STRETCH OF CD1, OUR LAST SHOW BEFORE THE ELECTION NEXT WEEK.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES NEXT WEEK.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ANNOUNCER: A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES FACING RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER.