>> THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, THE VERDICT IS IN ON THE LATEST STANDARDIZED TESTS FOR RHODE ISLAND SCHOOL CHILDREN AND IT IS NOT GOOD NEWS.

AND, WHO WILL THE REPUBLICANS PUT UP FOR GOVERNOR NEXT YEAR?

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXTREME AND HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US WITH THEIR INSIGHTS, ATTORNEY AND FORMER PROSECUTOR EVA MARIE MANCUSA.

DAVE LEHMAN, AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE, NICK GORHAM.

HELLO AND WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S LIVELY EXPERIMENT.

I'M JIM HUMMEL.

THE RESULTS OF THE RHODE ISLAND COMPREHENSIVE ASSESSMENT SYSTEM, KNOWN TO US AS RIGHT CAST WAS WORSE THAN MANY THOUGHT THEY WOULD BE.

EVEN ADJUSTED FOR AN EXPECTED LOSS OF LEARNING.

IT WAS A LOT WORSE.

THERE WAS THE REQUISITE HANDWRINGING ON THURSDAY BUT THIS IS NOT A NEW STORY.

THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE BEGIN WRITING NEW CHAPTERS TO THE STORY.

LET ME BEGIN WITH THE WOMAN WHO KNOWS ABOUT EDUCATION.

I'M SURE YOU HEARD THIS 10 YEARS AGO, WHEN YOU WERE ON THE BOARD.

IS IT ALL PANDEMIC OR DOES IT GO BEYOND?

>> IT IS NOT ALL PANDEMIC.

A BIG PART OF IT THINK EVEN FOR THE PARENTS THAT WERE HELPING CHILDREN AT HOME, AFTER SCHOOL AND EVERYTHING ELSE, THEY WERE CHALLENGED BECAUSE THEY WERE WORKING FROM HOME.

IT IS NOT A NEW STORY.

WE STILL HAVE MANY CHILDREN COMING INTO THIS STATE AND THIS COUNTRY THAT DON'T SPEAK THE LANGUAGE.

WE STILL HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE HOMELESS.

WE HAVE CHILDREN THAT ARE DISADVANTAGED, AND OUR LATCHKEY KIDS GO HOME AND DON'T GET THE ASSISTANCE AT HOME.

THOSE ARE SYSTEMIC PROBLEMS WE AVE HAD IN RHODE ISLAND, AS WE SAY IN ITALIAN, FROM THE DAYS OF ARIGOTA.

WE KEEP DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS.

JIM: IT'S NOT JUST INNER CITIES, NICK, THERE WERE SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES WHO SAW THIS DROP.

NICK: I THINK THE COVID INFLUENCE WAS VERY STRONG.

I THINK THE STATE, AND RHODE ISLAND IS NOT ALONE, THEY MISSED ON THE BEST POLICY FOR TEACHING KIDS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

AND THE RESULTS IN THE SUBURBAN DISTRICTS RATIFIED THAT.

I AGREE WITH EVA, YET AGAIN.

EVA: OH, MY GOODNESS.

WE HAVE TO WRITE THIS DOWN.

NICK: IT IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY KIDS COMING INTO NOT JUST THIS COUNTRY, BUT ESPECIALLY INTO RHODE ISLAND, KIDS WHO HAVE NO EDUCATION.

THEY DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH.

THEY ARE OFTEN IN THEIR TEENS OR LATE TEENS.

HOW DO YOU TEACH KIDS LIKE THAT?

>> WHEN YOU HAVE 25 KIDS IN THE CLASSROOM.

NICK: RIGHT.

HERE IS THE REASON RHODE ISLAND IS WORSE OFF THAN MANY OTHER STATES.

WE OFFER MORE INDUCEMENTS FOR PEOPLE TO COME HERE THAN JUST ABOUT ANY OTHER STATE BECAUSE WE HAVE THE BEST SOCIAL WELFARE BENEFITS.

AND SO, WE ARE GOING TO GET WHAT WE ASK FOR.

WE HAVE PUT OUT THESE INDUCEMENTS FOR PEOPLE TO COME HERE AND LO AND BEHOLD, THEY COME.

I HAVE SAID THIS SEVERAL TIMES ON THE SHOW, THEY ARE BLAMELESS.

IF YOU OFFER ALL OF THESE INDUCEMENTS AND PEOPLE COME, YOU CAN'T SAY WHY DO WE HAVE 70 PEOPLE HERE WHO CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH AND DON'T HAVE ANY EDUCATION -- SO MANY PEOPLE WHO CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH AND DON'T HAVE ANY EDUCATION AT ALL?

DAVE: I HAVE TO AGREE WITH NICK.

I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT.

ONE OF THE THINGS I THOUGHT WAS TERRIFIC ABOUT RHODE ISLAND IS THAT WE ARE A WELCOMING COMMUNITY.

WHETHER YOU ARE WEALTHY OR WHETHER YOU ARE POOR.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT TENDS TO BE MORE OF THE POOR.

AND I THINK, I HAVE SAID THIS TO SOME FRIENDS OF MINE, THE IRONY IS THAT WE ARE ONE OF THE STATES THAT, BECAUSE OF OUR SIZE AND MAYBE JUST BECAUSE RHODE ISLAND BEING RHODE ISLAND, WE ARE ONE OF THE STATES THAT COULD LEAST AFFORD TO BE SO GENEROUS.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU SAY THAT WITHOUT LOOKING LIKE AN OGRE.

IT IS ALMOST POOR PEOPLE GIVING AWAY EVERYTHING TO ANOTHER POOR PERSON, THEY ARE ALL STILL POOR.

AND THAT BOTHERS ME A GOOD DEAL.

I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE RETHOUGHT ABOUT THE INDUCEMENTS.

BECAUSE WE ARE SMALL AND WE HAVE A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES.

THE EDUCATIONAL ISSUE, JIM, IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE AS WELL.

IT IS A SOCIAL ISSUE, IT IS AN ECONOMIC ISSUE.

EVA: I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS WE HAVE TO STOP PEOPLE AT THE BORDERS FROM COMING IN.

I THINK WE HAVE THE RESOURCES HERE.

I THINK THEY HAVE TO BE BETTER ALIGNED WITH WHAT THE NEEDS ARE IN RHODE ISLAND.

BY THE WAY, THE GOOD NEWS IS, WE WILL HAVE $415 MILLION COMING INTO IT.

SO, WE KNOW WHERE THAT MONEY NEEDS TO GO.

IN TERMS OF THE EDUCATION PLIGHT.

BECAUSE, WE HAVE TO HAVE TEACHERS THAT TEACH IN CERTAIN LANGUAGES.

WE HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT WORK, EVEN AS AIDES, IN THE SCHOOLS, THAT ARE IN THOSE -- THAT'S BECAUSE THOSE LINKAGES SO THE KIDS, FIRST OF ALL, FEEL COMFORTABLE.

THEY HAVE SELF-ESTEEM AND THEY CAN ALSO LEARN OUR LANGUAGE MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK WE HAVE THE RESOURCES.

THEY JUST HAVE TO BE BETTER ALIGNED WITH WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE.

>> IN A PERFECT WORLD, WE WOULD ALL GIVE EVERYTHING WE COULD POSSIBLY GIVE TO OTHERS TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYBODY IS OK.

BUT, WHEN IT IS A RELATIVE THING , WHEN YOU ARE JUST ATTRACTING SO MANY PEOPLE THAT YOUR STATE IS OVERWHELMED, I THINK YOU HAVE TO RECONSIDER SOME OF THESE INITIATIVES.

I AGREE, IT MAKES YOU SOUND MISERLY TO SAY THAT WE HAVE TO BALANCE THIS BUT WE REALLY DO.

I THINK THAT IS A TRUTH THAT RHODE ISLANDERS NEVER ENCOUNTERED.

THE FACT IS THAT, WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS OPENED UP THE BORDERS.

THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE COMING HERE THAN EVER.

I DON'T THINK THAT PORTENDS GOOD THINGS FOR RHODE ISLAND BECAUSE I THINK WE WILL HAVE MORE KIDS WHO COME HERE WHO ARE IN THEIR TEENS.

THEY HAVE NO EDUCATION, THEY DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH AND THEY REQUIRE MASSIVE RESOURCES.

>> THE LARGER ISSUE IS COMMISSIONER GREENE WAS BROUGHT HERE TWO YEARS AGO AND IT SEEMS LIKE A DECADE AGO.

IT WAS TO ADDRESS A LOT OF THIS STATEWIDE.

WHAT HAPPENED?

THE JOHNS HOPKINS REPORT AND ALL THE AIR GOT SUCKED OUT OF THE ROOM BY PROVIDENCE AND THE PANDEMIC.

THE REPORT CARD WILL BE OUT ON HER, ULTIMATELY.

BUT, I WONDER, ALL THOSE THINGS SHE WANTED TO DO, DO WE GIVE HER A TWO YEAR MULLIGAN AND NOW WE START?

I WONDER IN THE LONG RUN WHETHER SOME OF THIS SYSTEMIC STUFF -- LINDA BOARD DID A GREAT STORY IN THE JOURNAL ABOUT HOW MASSACHUSETTS, AND I HATE TO COMPARE US, KEPT THEIR EYE ON THE BALL FOR TWO DECADES AND DID NOT WAVER.

YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF SOME OF THAT POLICY.

EVA: I WAS THERE.

WE WERE THIS CLOSE TO HAVING A GRADUATION REQUIRED.

>> AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY GOT INVOLVED.

IT HAS TO BE FRUSTRATING.

>> I TAKE ISSUE ON YOU WITH THIS -- WITH YOU ON THIS.

WE HAVE THE RESOURCES.

THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE AND A BAD ONE AT THE SAME TIME.

THEIR PENSION FUND IS 22% FUNDED.

IT SHOULD BE AT LEAST 80% FUNDED.

THAT IS -- NOW, THERE IS TALK ABOUT TAKING THIS FEDERAL MONEY AND TAKING IT TO SOLVE THE PENSION PROBLEM IN PROVIDENCE.

IF YOU DO THAT, MONEY WILL NOT GO TO SOME OF THE SYSTEMIC NEEDS THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN ON, BECAUSE WE ARE BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL.

WE OFTEN GET COMPARED TO MASSACHUSETTS, BECAUSE THEY ARE OUR NEIGHBOR.

THEY ARE OF SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS IN SOME WAYS.

IT COULD BE A FAIR COMPARISON.

BUT, WE JUST DON'T HAVE IT TOGETHER.

WE DON'T HAVE THE INDUSTRY.

WE DON'T HAVE THE HIGH-TECH INDUSTRY.

195 CARTER WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT AND IT'S NOT.

I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE MONEY IN ORDER TO SERVE ALL OF THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING IN.

I PERSONALLY WISH WE DID.

I JUST THINK THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE A SHARED RESPONSIBILITY AND I THINK RHODE ISLAND HAS TAKEN ON WAY TOO MUCH BECAUSE IT CAN'T AFFORD IT.

EVA: WE HAVE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE.

I THINK THAT IF YOU LOOK AT HOW MUCH MONEY WE PUT INTO EDUCATION AND THE MISSIONS SYSTEM IS DIFFERENT THAN THE EDUCATION.

THE AMOUNT OF MONEY WE PUT INTO EDUCATION, I THINK THE MONEY IS THERE.

WE JUST HAVE TO STEP BACK AND DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY.

IN THE WAY WE TEACH, THE WAY WE PRESENT MATERIAL, I THINK COMMISSIONER GREENE IS ON THE RIGHT TRACK.

I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE HER A LITTLE BIT OF A PASS.

AS TO THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS, I BELIEVE THAT THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS IS A DIRECT RESULT OF PEOPLE WORKING AT HOME.

BECAUSE, PARENTS JUST DID NOT HAVE TIME.

I HAVE, NOT FRIENDS, BECAUSE MY FRIENDS KIDS -- PEOPLE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD THAT SAID FOR THE FIRST TIME, MY CHILD HAD TO BE IN A DIFFERENT ROOM AND I WAS WORKING IN THE OTHER ROOM.

I THINK THE DECLINE OF THE SUBURBAN SCHOOLS HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE PARENTAL INFLUENCE NOT BEING THERE, THAT THEY WERE IN THE PAST.

JIM: THE NEWS THAT DID NOT HAPPEN, NOBODY ANNOUNCED FOR GOVERNOR.

IT'S AMAZING.

EVERY WEEK, IT IS SOMEBODY NEW.

EVA: YOU NEVER KNOW.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: THE ANNOUNCEMENT IS NOT UNTIL JUNE.

DAVE, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

IT IS A CROWDED FIELD ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE.

WHOEVER THE CANDIDATE IS, DO THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A SHOT WITH THE DEMOCRATS BEATING EACH OTHER UP?

DAVE: I'M SORRY, NICK, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS.

THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH OF A SHOCK, PERIOD.

>> I AGREE WITH YOU, BUT GO AHEAD.

[LAUGHTER] DAVE: I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A TOUGH BATTLE FOR THEM.

THE PROGRAM ENSUES ON.

I ALMOST WONDERED IF SHE HAD SOMEBODY IN MIND, SHE DID SAY THAT THEY DO.

>> WHO WAS GOING TO BE ANNOUNCED BY LATE SEPTEMBER.

DAVE: YEAH.

IT IS A STRUGGLE.

BEING A REPUBLICAN IN RHODE ISLAND IS A TOUGH WAY TO GO, NO MATTER WHAT.

BUT, THEY CAN DO IT.

YOU NAME IT.

IT CAN BE DONE.

IT TAKES A UNIQUE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

PROBABLY THE BEST THING FOR THE REPUBLICANS IS THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BEAT THEMSELVES UP.

JIM: HOW TOUGH IS IT BEING A REPUBLICAN IN THE STATE, NICK?

NICK: I ENJOY IT.

YOU HAVE TO GET USED TO BEING -- pJIM: COCKTAIL PARTIES IN THE PHONE BOOTH?

[LAUGHTER] NICK: THE CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD HAD IT BEST.

QUESTION, WHAT HE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS?

ANSWER, NASTY, POPULATED, DEMOCRAT PRIMARIES FOR GOVERNOR.

I HAD TO WRITE THIS DOWN.

WE HAVE MR. MUNOZ, MR. BROWN, MISS KOGORBEA.

THAT IS A CROWDED FIELD.

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE BENEFIT OF THE REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR, AS HAPPENED WITH THE WHITE HOUSE YORK PRIMARY, DON CARTY AREY -- DON C.RR HE HAD A PRIMARY BUT THE DEMOCRAT PRIMARY WAS TOUGHER.

>> JOE WALSH AND ANTHONY SOLOMON, RUMOR THAT?

THAT WAS A BLOODBATH.

NICK: THAT IS THE PARADIGM.

WHAT YOU WISH FOR AS A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE IS TO HAVE THE WINNER OF THE FIVE, IF THEY ALL STAY IN, STAGGER ACROSS THE FINISH LINE AND NEARLY COLLAPSE IN SEPTEMBER.

AND YOU ARE STANDING THERE, IN THE MIDDLE, AS THE CENTRIST WHO CAN HELP RHODE ISLAND AND SAVE THE STATE.

AND THIS OTHER PERSON WHO HAS STAGGERED ACROSS THE FINISH LINE , HAS BEEN ALL OVER THE MAP ON EVERYTHING.

AND LOTS OF NEGATIVE ADS RUN AGAINST THEM.

EVA: DON'T ASK ME ABOUT BEING A REPUBLICAN IN THIS STATE.

I HAVE NO IDEA.

I WORRY ABOUT EXACTLY WHAT NICK JUST SAID.

THAT IT IS TOO IMPORTANT FOR US.

LISTEN, I HAVE NOT BEEN QUIET ABOUT IT.

I THINK DAN MCKEE IS A GREAT GOVERNOR.

I THINK HE IS STEADY, HE IS SLOW, HE IS THOUGHTFUL ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT HE DOES.

QUITE FRANKLY, I HOPE THAT HE COMES OUT OF THIS AS THE PRIMARY CANDIDATE.

I DON'T THINK HE WILL RUN THE KIND OF CAMPAIGN THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, NICK.

THE WAY OTHER PEOPLE RUN IT -- >> THEY JUST MIGHT.

EVA: YOU KNOW WHAT?

I SAY, EVEN IN MY OWN CAMPAIGN IN 1998, I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF REGRETS BUT I REGRETTED THAT I LISTENED TO GOING NEGATIVE BECAUSE I DID NOT FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

WHEN YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, IT IS THAT THIS IS YOUR WAY TO WIN.

AND I DON'T SEE 70-YEAR-OLD, THOUGHTFUL DAN MCKEE, TAKING ANY CONSULTANTS ADVICE TO BE SOMEBODY HE IS NOT.

HE HAS NOT TO THIS POINT.

I WATCHED THE WAY HE THINKS.

HE IS THE SAME, DELIBERATIVE MAYOR AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AS HE IS AS GOVERNOR.

I DON'T SEE THAT HAPPENING.

YOU NEVER KNOW.

THEY ARE STARTING TO TAKE SHOTS.

JIM: TIME HEALS A LOT AND VIDEOTAPE LASTS FOREVER.

THAT IS THE BALANCE OF IT.

YOU WONDER HOW MUCH THE ILO CONTRACT AND TONY SILVA WILL JAM HIM UP.

WE ARE IN OCTOBER AND NOT JUNE, JULY AND AUGUST, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

DAVE: THE THING I STRUGGLE WITH, IF ALL FIVE STAY IN AND I DON'T THINK THEY WILL, BUT LET'S SAY THEY DO, YOU WILL END UP WITH A PRIMARY THAT SOMEBODY COULD EMERGE AS THE CANDIDATE WITH ONLY 25% OF THE VOTE.

THAT PERSON WALKS INTO THE GENERAL ELECTION, NOT EXACTLY WITH A MANDATE, BECAUSE THEY GOT A LIMITED NUMBER OF VOTES.

AND THEN, THEY WILL GO AGAINST OUR REPUBLICAN.

IF THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE TURNS OUT TO BE A STRONG CANDIDATE, NOW THE CLOUDS OPEN AND THE SUNLIGHT GOES THROUGH FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

BUT, I DON'T THINK YOU WILL SEE ALL FIVE OF THEM STAY IN.

ONE OTHER THING I WILL MENTION, BECAUSE THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL HAS BECOME THIN, IT HAS VERY FEW REPORTERS.

THE JOURNAL USED TO DO A GREAT JOB.

THEY DID A GREAT JOB IN PULLING OUT THE CANDIDATES, QUESTIONING THEM, PROFILING THEM AND ALL OF THAT.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT NOW.

AND YOU DON'T SEE ON A REPETITIVE BASIS AS THE JOURNAL DAY.

WITHOUT THE JOURNALS INFLUENCE AND TALK RADIO, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF VISIBILITY FOR A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE.

SO, SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT A HIGH VISIBILITY PERSON IS REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THE MONEY TO DO TELEVISION ADS AND INTERNET AND SO FORTH.

THIS IS A SEISMIC CHANGE IN ELECTION POLITICS IN RHODE ISLAND, ESPECIALLY.

NICK: FROM THE REPUBLICAN PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS LIKE TWO PEOPLE STRANDED ON AN ISLAND AND THEY HAVE A CANOPY AND ONE OF THEM SAYS -- THE ECONOMIST SAYS LET'S ASSUME WE HAVE A CAN OPENER.

EVA: [LAUGHTER] NICK: THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE A CAN OPENER.

JIM: GO GET A CAN OPENER.

EVA: LET ME TALK ABOUT SOMETHING.

IT IS A SEGUE INTO SOME OF THE MATERIALS WE HAVE READ FOR TODAY.

WHEN I LOOK AT THE AP POLL THAT WENT OUT ON BIDEN, I LOOKED AT THAT, NOT REALLY THE NUMBERS, BUT THE RESULTS OF THE NUMBERS.

23% HAD NO OPINION AND FEWER THAN HALF SAY THAT THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT.

JIM: A WINDOW INTO WHERE WE ARE, ISN'T IT?

EVA: THOSE OF US THAT ARE IN THE GAME, THE ONES OF US THAT ARE IN THE ROOM, WE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS STUFF.

THE REGULAR WORLD, THE VOTERS HAVE TO BE EDUCATED.

YOU ARE RIGHT.

THAT IS ABOUT THE ALMIGHTY BUCK AND HOW YOU CAN GET IN TV AND GET IN THE MEDIA.

SOMETIMES IT IS NEGATIVE, SOMETIMES IT IS POSITIVE.

WHEN I WAS READING THROUGH THE PAUL, I SAID TO MYSELF IT IS NOT THE RESULTS, IT IS OH MY GOODNESS, THEY CALLED SOMEBODY AND SAID HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?

IT HAS BEEN ON EVERY NEWS STATION.

JIM: WE WENT THROUGH THOSE POLLS AND 5% OF THE PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW WHO THE GOVERNOR WAS.

WHERE DO YOU LIVE?

IT SHOWS WE ARE PLUGGED IN AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT.

DAVE: IF YOU TAKE THOSE FIVE NAMES AND YOU SHOWED THEM TO A FOCUS GROUP AND PICK PEOPLE FROM THE COMMUNITY, I WILL BET YOU THAT MOST OF THEM COULD NOT IDENTIFY -- >> SOUNDS LIKE A JIMMY KIMMEL SKIP.

NICK: ESPECIALLY SINCE GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS BEEN GOVERNOR FOR A SHORT TIME AND HE WAS -- RESPECTFULLY TO HIM -- HE WAS A QUIET LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

IT'S GOING TO BE INTERESTING.

I THINK IT WILL BE A LOT OF SOCIAL MEDIA.

JIM: LAST QUESTION.

I AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE IT HAS GONE THAT WAY.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO WITH THE OPENINGS.

HELENA ANNOUNCED IT IS NOT THE BALLOONS AND THE ANSWERING OF THE QUESTIONS.

JOE PAY LINO -- PAOLINO SAID WE NEED TO MOVE TO THE ULTIMATE WINNER IT'S TO 50%.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

DAVE: I AGREE WITH THAT.

LOUISIANA HAS THAT SAME STIPULATION.

JIM: YOU WERE DOWN THERE FOR A WHILE.

DAVE: I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

OTHERWISE, I DON'T THINK THE REPUBLIC OR THE STATE OR THE COMMONWEALTH IS SERVED VERY WELL WHEN YOU HAVE SOMEBODY WHO GOES INTO AN ELECTION WITH 25% OF THE VOTE BECAUSE OF A CROWDED FIELD.

I THINK IT OUGHT TO BE -- I SAW THAT PROGRAM AS WELL.

I THOUGHT JOE WAS ON THE MONEY WITH THAT.

NICK: THE CONSTITUTION SAYS A PLURALITY RIGHT NOW.

YOU WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE THAT.

A PLURALITY IS NOT A MAJORITY.

JIM: UNTIL GENE WON HER ELECTION, SHE WON WITH LESS THAN 50%.

I WANT TO GET TO SOME NATIONAL STUFF.

LET'S GO TO OUTRAGEOUS OR KUDOS.

EVA: I HAVE A KUDOS.

I AM A SEASON TICKET HOLDER TO MOST OF OUR THEATER IN RHODE ISLAND AND -- JIM: YOU GET UP AND SING WITH THE MUSICALS, RIGHT?

EVA: I DON'T.

I SING ON THE WEIGHT GOING HOME.

I TOOK MY GRANDDAUGHTER TO MAMA MIA AT THEATER BY THE SEA.

OH, MY GOODNESS, I HAD THE MUSIC GOING ON THE WAY DOWN AND ON THE WAY BACK AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

SHE SAID WHAT IS THE NAME OF THAT SONG?

IT IS FABULOUS.

IT IS A LONG PLAY.

BOY, IT WAS GREAT.

THE ACTING WAS GREAT.

JUST TO BE BACK IN OUR SMALL THEATER AGAIN, IT IS WHY -- IT IS REALLY WHY WE LOVE RHODE ISLAND.

THERE ARE SO MONEY LITTLE PLACES LIKE THAT.

TO ALL OF THE ACTORS OUT THERE THAT ARE GOING BACK INTO WORK AT A TIME WHEN IT IS STILL PRECARIOUS, WE WERE MASKS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.

IT IS STILL PRECARIOUS.

TO ALL OF THOSE, THAT IS MY KUDOS.

JIM: THAT IS GREAT.

DAVE, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

DAVE: A TIP OF THE HAT TO THE NATIONAL GRID.

MY SENSE IS THE NATIONAL GRID HAS STEPPED UP ITS GAME WHEN WE HAVE THESE OUTAGES, ESPECIALLY THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

THEY OFTEN GET CRITICIZED.

I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE IN THE WAY THEY HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS.

I KNOW SOME PEOPLE WILL DISAGREE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR POWER BACK.

BUT MOST OF THE POWER IS BACK ON.

THAT IS A TOUGH JOB.

WE HAVE COVERED IT AND YOU HAVE COVERED IT OVER THE YEARS.

THESE PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE, SOMETIMES IN VERY DANGEROUS CIRCUMSTANCES, TRYING TO PUT POWER BACK ON BEFORE THE STORM IS OVER, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN'T THE OUT THERE IF IT IS MORE THAN 35 MILE-PER-HOUR WINDS.

I THINK THE NATIONAL GRID HAS STEPPED UP ITS GAME AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED FOR THAT.

JIM: THAT'S GOOD.

NICK, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

OUTRAGE OR KUDOS?

NICK: JUST AN OUTRAGE.

I THINK THE RESULTS OF THE SCHOOL STUDY ARE AN OUTRAGE.

MORE PROFOUNDLY, IF I CAN BE PROFOUND, I THINK OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM IS A REFLECTION OF OUR STATE AND WHERE OUR STATE IS AT.

AND, I GO BACK TO WHAT DAVE AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT.

WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO DO ALL OF THE THINGS THAT WE TRY TO DO.

AND, WE HAVE TO START BALANCING WHAT WE HAVE WITH WHAT WE CAN DO.

AND WE HAVE NOT.

WE JUST KEEP GOING ON AND ON, TRYING TO DO TOO MUCH WITH TOO LITTLE AND THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IS SUFFERING, PARTICULARLY IN PROVIDENCE AND SOME OF THE OTHER URBAN AREAS.

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

JIM: LINDA BORG'S STORY, AND I COMMEND YOU TO READ IT, SHE SAID WHAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT PEOPLE COMING TO A STATE WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO ATTRACT BUSINESS?

EVA: IT IS ALL EDUCATION.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

I HAVE TO ALSO GIVE KUDOS TO SPEAKER SUCK ARCHIE -- THE SPEAKER CAN WHAT TO DO WITH THIS $32 MILLION THAT GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS OPPOSED AND ALL OF THE MONEY -- PROPOSED AND ALL THE MONEY COMING INTO THE STATE.

HE SAID FOR EVERY DOLLAR HE HAS, $10 HAS BEEN REQUESTED.

EVERYBODY NEEDS SOMETHING.

THAT IS THE EASY WAY.

IT IS LIKE ANYTHING ELSE.

IT'S LIKE WHEN YOU ARE RUNNING YOUR OWN FAMILY, YOUR OWN HOUSEHOLD, HAVING MORE MONEY IS GREAT.

THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS.

BUT YOU HAVE TO MAKE SOME HARD DECISIONS.

I THINK WHERE I AND NICK AND DAVE DISAGREE IS I SEE THE DECISIONS BEING MADE, GLOBALLY, IN OUR STAY AS WASTED RESOURCES.

WE NEED TO PUT MORE MONEY, MORE BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

PEOPLE THAT SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, PEOPLE THAT DO THE WORK IN CLASSROOMS TO SPEND MORE MONEY.

WE NEED LONGER SCHOOL DAYS.

WE NEED TO PAY TEACHERS MORE.

TEACHERS GET SUCH A BAD RAP IN OUR STATE BECAUSE THEY WANT THIS AND THEY WANT THAT.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO WORK A FULL DAY, YOU ARE GOING TO GET PAID FOR IT.

THAT IS WHAT WE DO.

JIM: QUICKLY, I WANT TO DO A LIVELY EXTRA ON THE NATIONAL STUFF BUT LET ME TALK ABOUT THE FEDERAL STIMULUS MONEY.

DAVE, YOU AND I HAD A BACK AND FORTH ON THIS.

THE IRONY IS GENE DECIDED EVERYTHING.

NOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF COOKS IN THE KITCHEN.

THE RHODE ISLAND FOUNDATION, THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE AND THERE IS DELIBERATE PROCESS.

WE ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE NOT GOTTEN ANY MONEY OUT THE DOOR AND IT HAS TO GO THROUGH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

I KNOW YOU HAVE CONCERNS.

IS IT LIKE THE END OF A GENERAL ASSEMBLY SESSION, ULTIMATELY HOW IT GETS ROLLED OUT?

EVA: THEY SAY WE WANT TO -- DAVE: THEY SAY WE WANT TO HOLD BACK.

UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES, THAT IS A WIFE'S THING TO DO.

-- WISE THING TO DO.

IN THIS CASE, I THINK THE MONEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN OUT THE DOOR SOONER.

IN TARGETED AREAS.

THIS IS A HUGE PAYDAY FOR THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, IN SOME WAYS.

THEY ARE GOING TO HELP CONTROL WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO.

WHEN YOU DO THAT, YOU'RE DOING -- PUTTING AN AWFUL LOT INTOTHE LEGISLATIVE HANDS.

IT GETS SPENT WITH FAVORITISM.

IT IS NOT WELL THOUGHT OUT.

I HOPE THIS TIME WE ARE GOING TO TAKE, IF THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME TO DECIDE WHERE THIS MONEY SHOULD GO, I HOPE IT IS DONE FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE STATE AND NOT FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE POLITICS INVOLVED IN THE STATE.

VERY OFTEN, THESE BECOME POLITICAL FUNDS AND NOT SOCIAL FUNDS.

EVA: I THINK THAT, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THAT IS A REAL OLD WAY OF LOOKING AT IT.

THAT IS AN OLD WAY FROM 30 YEARS AGO, AND I LOOK AT GOVERNOR MCKEE'S $32 MILLION FOR SMALL BUSINESSES.

HE HAS SAID LET'S TAKE THIS SMALL AMOUNT -- JIM: THAT HAS TO BE APPROVED BY THE LEGISLATURE AND THEY ARE NOT IN A RUSH TO CONVENE.

EVA: I DON'T EVER THINK IT IS A BAD THING.

WITH THIS TYPE OF MONEY, IT IS A ONE-TIME APPROACH TO BE DELIBERATE ABOUT IT.

I THINK IT IS THAT IMPORTANT.

WE HAVE ONE TIME TO DO THIS.

LET'S GET IT RIGHT.

LET'S NOT JUST SIT DOWN AND SAY THIS PERSON NEEDS IT NOW AND THIS PERSON NEEDS IT NOW, WHAT HAVE YOU.

DAVE: WHY IS IT OTHER STATES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HAND OUT THE MONEY INTO AREAS THEY THINK -- THIS STATE, ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES OF BEING THE SMALLEST STATE IS YOU CAN GET THINGS DONE IF YOU REALLY WANT TO, QUICKLY.

JIM: NICK, I'M SORRY TO SHORT YOU.

YOU GET THE LAST 30 SECONDS.

NICK: I AGREE WITH DAVE.

THERE IS A BIT OF A DISPUTE -- NOT DISPUTE -- BUT TENSION BETWEEN THE BRANCHES, JUXTAPOSED ON A FIVE-POINT GUBERNATORIAL RACE, IN WHICH TWO OF THE PARTICIPANTS STATE OFFICERS.

THE GENERAL SIBLEY HAS ITS OPINION OF HOW THE MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT.

THERE GOVERNOR LEFT AND WENT TO WASHINGTON, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.

THE NEW GOVERNOR CAME IN AND IT IS JUST DELAYING EVERYTHING.

AND THEN, COME JANUARY, IT IS A WHOLE NEW WORLD BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S RACE OFFICIALLY BEGINS.

JIM: I HAVE TO HOLD YOU RIGHT THERE.

IT IS NOT OVER YET.

WE HAVE NATIONAL THINGS TO GET TO.

A LOT GOING ON IN WASHINGTON.

IF YOU CAN, JOIN US AT RI PBS.ORG/LIVELY -- RIPBS.ORG /LIVELY.

STICK AROUND FOR OVER TIME.

THE REST OF YOU, COME NEXT WEEK FOR LIVELY EXPERIMENT.

>> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, A LIVELY AIRMAN HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF